Basket of Kisses

I loved reading this, and so I lifted it. It’s from a young guy’s journal at another site, and it is a rebuttal to your classic ‘nice guys finish last’ post. enjoy!

Subject: re: nice guys finish last

What a crock of shit.

Maybe this is old news on the internet but as I just stumbled upon it, i’m going to go ahead and comment anyway. I guess it made the rounds on cragislist (of all things) and caused a stir. I can see why.

My comments in bold following.

“What Happened to All the Nice Guys?”
[Date: 2007-11-19, 3:52AM PST]

I see this question posted with some regularity in the personals section, so I thought I’d take a minute to explain things to the ladies out there that haven’t figured it out.

What happened to all the nice guys?

The answer is simple: you did.

BURN

See, if you think back, really hard, you might vaguely remember a Platonic guy pal who always seemed to want to spend time with you. He’d tag along with you when you went shopping, stop by your place for a movie when you were lonely but didn’t feel like going out, or even sit there and hold you while you sobbed and told him about how horribly the (other) guy that you were fucking treated you.

Christ. Okay.

First of all, the idea that engaging in activities such as shopping, movies, etc is some form of debt that should be repayed (in this case with romantic or sexual interest) is, quite frankly, bad enough, but to go so far as to include taking care of a friend when they’re heartbroken… that’s really unhealthy.

Not for nothing, but when I spend time with anyone, be they male or female, it’s because I genuinely enjoy their company. That’s the “reward” i’m after: the time spent with said person.

And for the love of God, if i’m going to hold a girl while she’s crying, it really doesn’t matter if it’s an asshole boyfriend or a bad day at work, i’m going to be doing so out of a genuine concern for said person. That’s just basic human decency.

At the time, you probably joked with your girlfriends about how he was a little puppy dog, always following you around, trying to do things to get you to pay attention to him. They probably teased you because they thought he had a crush on you. Given that his behavior was, admittedly, a little pathetic, you vehemently denied having any romantic feelings for him, and buttressed your position by claiming that you were “just friends.”

Here’s something that also really worries me. It’s this concept that being a kind, supportive and friendly person (again, with this unspoken motivation of dating or sleeping with the person you’re pretending to be genuinely appreciative of) should be more than enough for them to take interest in you. I think it’s fair to say i’m a “nice guy”, I’ve been lucky enough to date some beautiful and brilliant women, and the reason i’ve done so is I balance my “niceness” or whatever you may call it with a certain level of assertiveness.

Besides, he totally wasn’t your type. I mean, he was a little too short, or too bald, or too fat, or too poor, or didn’t know how to dress himself,

Okay. Okay, how do I put this correctly. I make no secret that one of the most attractive things to me about someone is their imperfections. I find them to be just as wonderful as the more conventionally attractive traits. I say this because I think the above is just excuses. In my experiences many women ARE willing to overlook physical imperfections if the person is genuine and attractive in their personality. Again, it comes down to assertiveness and confidence. If a boy refuses to carry himself as someone worth dating, he’s not likely to come across as such.

or basically be or do any of the things that your tall, good-looking, fit, rich, stylish boyfriend at the time pulled off with such ease.

hahahaha what

Eventually, your Platonic buddy drifted away, as your relationship with the boyfriend got more serious and spending time with this other guy was, admittedly, a little weird, if you werent dating him.

Because you’re a passive aggressive dick who’s selfish motivations can’t help but become clearer over time. It’s just how it works.

More time passed, and the boyfriend eventually cheated on you, or became boring, or you realized that the things that attracted you to him weren’t the kinds of things that make for a good, long-term relationship.

This is getting disturbingly mean and angry, isn’t it? Maybe it’s just me.

So, now, you’re single again, and after having tried the bar scene for several months having only encountered players and douche bags, you wonder, “What happened to all the nice guys?”

Well, once again, you did.

Nope, it’s not just me

You ignored the nice guy. You used him for emotional intimacy without reciprocating, in kind, with physical intimacy.

Right there. My point EXACTLY. There is NO need, no requirement for any sort of reciprocation for emotional intimacy. PARTICULARLY physical. What he’s saying, essentially, is I was there for you when you were sad with the intention of you fucking me, and you didn’t follow through. That is a terrible, ugly statement.

Also it’s worth noting at this point especially that women are, you know, smart. And fully capable of sensing when a guy or girl has aims for them that are less than noble. It’s not that difficult after a while to suss out that someone’s attempting to be emotionally close to you with motivations that aren’t exactly selfless.

You laughed at his consideration and resented his devotion.

It’s neither consideration nor devotion when you’re engaging in behaviors expecting a reward.

You valued the aloof boyfriend more than the attentive “just-a-” friend. Eventually, he took the hint and moved on with his life.

Moved on by writing this shitty essay!

He probably came to realize, one day, that women aren’t really attracted to guys who hold doors open; or make dinners just because; or buy you a Christmas gift that you mentioned, in passing, that you really wanted five months ago; or listen when you’re upset; or hold you when you cry.

I’m certainly, again, not going to speak for any single woman let alone all of womankind, but in my experience women adore that kind of thing. When it’s coming from a genuine place. When it’s some guy who’s clearly trying to get in their pants, noooot so much.

He came to realize that, if he wanted a woman like you, he’d have to act more like the boyfriend that you had. He probably cleaned up his look, started making some money, and generally acted like more of an asshole than he ever wanted to be.

This is really ugly.

Fact is, now, he’s probably getting laid,

Doubt it.

and in a way, your ultimate rejection of him is to thank for that. And I’m sorry that it took the complete absence of “nice guys” in your life for you to realize that you missed them and wanted them. Most women will only have a handful of nice guys stumble into their lives, if that.

Wow.

So, if you’re looking for a nice guy, here’s what you do:

1.) Build a time machine.

Neat!

2.) Go back a few years and pull your head out of your ass.

Nevermind.

3.) Take a look at what’s right in front of you and grab ahold of it.

I.E. sleep with me, as I didn’t put in all that work being your friend for nothing.

I suppose the other possibility is that you STILL don’t really want a nice guy, but you feel the social pressure to at least appear to have matured beyond your infantile taste in men.

Ugh.

In which case, you might be in luck, because the nice guy you claim to want has, in reality, shed his nice guy mantle and is out there looking to unleash his cynicism and resentment onto someone just like you.

Wow. I can’t stress enough how misogynistic and hateful this is. It’s almost just blatantly violent at this point isn’t it?

If you were five years younger.

NOICE

So, please: either stop misrepresenting what you want, or own up to the fact that you’ve fucked yourself over. You’re getting older, after all. It’s time to excise the bullshit and deal with reality. You didn’t want a nice guy then, and he certainly doesn’t fucking want you, now.

Sincerely,

A Recovering Nice Guy

I feel really dirty having read that.

I don’t have any further points to make that I haven’t already. It just upsets me how this “the fucking bitch who only wants assholes is at fault” mentality gets spread around and reinforced on the internet.

I mean, i’m a dork, right? You’ve obviously looked at my profile. Lets call a spade a spade. I’m also, if I do say so myself, a very nice guy. I hold doors. I ask how people’s day was. I remember birthdays.

I do it because I want to. Because I like to.

And, funny thing is. Sometimes girls want to date me.