He was upset to see Gene put the German helmut on Bobby.
“There was a man in that helmut, take it off.”
Is that sentiment a result of how he feels about taking over the real Don Draper’s identity? In his mind or prayers does he ever talk to the real Don Draper?
He is a coward who allows others to treat him like a hero. Standing with the vets at the country club shindig.
Also, the fellow that interviews him in season 4,”Who is Don Draper?” had a prosthesis and Don winced a little when the poor fellow stood up. Pete made a nice comment, “We’re grateful for your sacrefice”
It would be satisfying seeing Don going to Dick Whitman’s grave and placing a flag or something.
I thought the lingering shot of the trash they left strewn all over their picnic site was a wonderful detail. And it’s not just because of a different frame of mind about the environment back in the day. My family cleaned up when we went to the beach or a park.
Trashed park = careless, self-indulgent people. Not subtle, but it stayed with me.
I think Don/Dick is genuinely pained every time he is described or identified as an honorable Vet. He knows that his status is based upon an act of cowardice, yet he has no way of admitting his true mistake lest he sees that his entire life is destroyed.
Is Don Patriotic ? Don’t know. He has described himself as apolitical. We have seen his visceral reaction to war imagery and as Susan F noted, he was disturbed by seeing his son wear a helmet that someone died in.
I wonder if we will see DD side with the anti-war movement later in the series. ?
@1 susan F- I think Don is patriotic and anti-war. He does not see any glamor or glory in war. Don’s attitude towards war is quite cynical. Regarding the helmet, it’s like he sees the humanity of the other side. To him, there is nothing heroic about killing the enemy in war.
@3 rl1856-I’ve often wondered about that. Privately he will be anti-war, but he will have to support the war in public, especially if Dow Chemical is a client. By the time we get to 1967/1968, this could get very interesting.
Aside from the various legal ramifications, one of the big reasons Don is afraid to “come out” regarding his secret identity is the social stigma attached to being a war deserter, most especially among his generation.
As the series progresses into the late 60′s, dodging the draft and otherwise avoiding military service not only loses some of it’s stigma among certain segments of the populace, it even becomes fashionable in some circles. Obviously, those segments of society are not the ones Don interacts with, but the presence of such changing social attitudes toward military service may well effect don as he deals with his issues going forward
Mad Men is a great show that has descended into trite, clichéd soap opera territory more than once. I offer the conclusion of Season 4, and the whole Megan story line for that matter, as a case in point. Can any of you really, truly defend that plot development?
@6 Bronze Bomber-Right now, the Megan storyline is hard to defend, but it has the potential to set up a number of interesting storylines in season 5. I’d want to hold off on it until we see what they do with it.
Actually, I believe I could, as I actually thought that particular story line was pretty well executed. However, there is no short answer and being very new here, I don’t know the etiquette of dragging this thread off on a tangent, so I’ll just say: yes, I did like the Megan Story line (even if the Tomorrowland episode felt a tad rushed to me.)
1. I would note that “Maidenform” explicitly encompassed Memorial Day.
2. Although the Megan storyline did seem rushed, I can defend it. S4 opens w/ the question, “Who is Don Draper?” and it’s a particularly apt question when the divorce stripped him of a major part of his identity and SCDP is requiring him to adopt a more public persona to promote the agency. A main arc of the season is Don’s downward spiral, hitting bottom in “The Suitcase.” Don starts to face the question in “The Summer Man,” becoming more introspective, jounalling, etc. But when the biz falls apart, he literally rips those pages out of his journal as he moves back into the familiar “move forward, change the conversation” mode. And with the biz in turmoil, he rejects the mature relationship with Faye, who knows his secret and wants him to try to fix his problem (but is not great with his kids), in favor of Megan, who takes him as is (and seems better with his kids than Betty). I would have preferred that storyline have started earlier, but I get that Matt Weiner and the writers saw it as the product of the late-season bombshell (lucky Strike leaving). That may seem “soapy” to some, but I see a lot of people who try to work on their personal issues to varying result.
Don makes snap decisions. Going all the way back to when he took the real Don’s dog tags after the explosion. It’s a major part of his character and serves to motivate a ton of the shows plot lines. Don proposing to Megan on the spur of the moment (and out of left field as well) is very much in keeping with this tradition. Consider that among other possible interpretations of the final scene from S4 it’s very possible to read Don’s expression as already having some degree of second thoughts about what he’s done. All of these things, in my opinion, make the whole plotline with Megan very much in keeping with what the series has already established about Don’s character and personality.
@8 tf185- I wouldn’t worry about going off-topic on a post like this one. It isn’t really about a particular topic to begin with, and seemed to invite us to take it where ever we wanted it to go. If I’m wrong, I hope someone will correct me.
@ susan F: Whoa, Don is a coward? Anyone who wears the uniform in country where the bullets are flying could NEVER be considered a coward for the rest of their lives. Don did a cowardly thing by deserting, yes. However, the fact that his life hung in the balance every single minute he was in war, precludes the designation of cowardice. He was merely being smart in trying to get the hell out of there any way he could. An opportunity presented itself and he pounced. You can chastise him for it, and argue the morality/immorality aspect of it. Like the great Hawkeye Pierce said in the famous Interview episode of MASH said, “I’d do anything to get out of here, its crazy!”. Amen. Obtw; Megan is not going to make it to the altar.
I offer an alternative view on the question of Don Draper’s patriotism / cowardice.
Closing his fifty two years of service, General Douglas MacArthur addressed the Cadets of West Point. At the height of the technology driven Cold War, a great leader recognized that inspired people always make the difference.
“Duty, Honor, Country: Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying points: to build courage when courage seems to fail; to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith; to create hope when hope becomes forlorn.”
General Douglas MacArthur
Sylvanus Thayer Award Acceptance Address
West Point, NY
12 May 1962
Rachel Mencken thought Don was a coward because he was about to desert his family (ironically when he thought he would get caught for being a war deserter). However, I don’t think patriotism or even war heroism means someone is truly brave (Duck “I killed 17 men in Okinawa” Phillips, or Betty’s father). Don seems to know there are no heros.
We are going to Tarrytown. Then you’re gonna stare at some antique chair for so long, the buttons are gonna seem interesting. And then we’ll get a Carvel. — Don Draper, Love Among the Ruins
Is Don a patriotic man?
He was upset to see Gene put the German helmut on Bobby.
“There was a man in that helmut, take it off.”
Is that sentiment a result of how he feels about taking over the real Don Draper’s identity? In his mind or prayers does he ever talk to the real Don Draper?
He is a coward who allows others to treat him like a hero. Standing with the vets at the country club shindig.
Also, the fellow that interviews him in season 4,”Who is Don Draper?” had a prosthesis and Don winced a little when the poor fellow stood up. Pete made a nice comment, “We’re grateful for your sacrefice”
It would be satisfying seeing Don going to Dick Whitman’s grave and placing a flag or something.
I thought the lingering shot of the trash they left strewn all over their picnic site was a wonderful detail. And it’s not just because of a different frame of mind about the environment back in the day. My family cleaned up when we went to the beach or a park.
Trashed park = careless, self-indulgent people. Not subtle, but it stayed with me.
I think Don/Dick is genuinely pained every time he is described or identified as an honorable Vet. He knows that his status is based upon an act of cowardice, yet he has no way of admitting his true mistake lest he sees that his entire life is destroyed.
Is Don Patriotic ? Don’t know. He has described himself as apolitical. We have seen his visceral reaction to war imagery and as Susan F noted, he was disturbed by seeing his son wear a helmet that someone died in.
I wonder if we will see DD side with the anti-war movement later in the series. ?
@1 susan F- I think Don is patriotic and anti-war. He does not see any glamor or glory in war. Don’s attitude towards war is quite cynical. Regarding the helmet, it’s like he sees the humanity of the other side. To him, there is nothing heroic about killing the enemy in war.
@3 rl1856-I’ve often wondered about that. Privately he will be anti-war, but he will have to support the war in public, especially if Dow Chemical is a client. By the time we get to 1967/1968, this could get very interesting.
Something else to consider:
Aside from the various legal ramifications, one of the big reasons Don is afraid to “come out” regarding his secret identity is the social stigma attached to being a war deserter, most especially among his generation.
As the series progresses into the late 60′s, dodging the draft and otherwise avoiding military service not only loses some of it’s stigma among certain segments of the populace, it even becomes fashionable in some circles. Obviously, those segments of society are not the ones Don interacts with, but the presence of such changing social attitudes toward military service may well effect don as he deals with his issues going forward
Mad Men is a great show that has descended into trite, clichéd soap opera territory more than once. I offer the conclusion of Season 4, and the whole Megan story line for that matter, as a case in point. Can any of you really, truly defend that plot development?
@6 Bronze Bomber-Right now, the Megan storyline is hard to defend, but it has the potential to set up a number of interesting storylines in season 5. I’d want to hold off on it until we see what they do with it.
Actually, I believe I could, as I actually thought that particular story line was pretty well executed. However, there is no short answer and being very new here, I don’t know the etiquette of dragging this thread off on a tangent, so I’ll just say: yes, I did like the Megan Story line (even if the Tomorrowland episode felt a tad rushed to me.)
1. I would note that “Maidenform” explicitly encompassed Memorial Day.
2. Although the Megan storyline did seem rushed, I can defend it. S4 opens w/ the question, “Who is Don Draper?” and it’s a particularly apt question when the divorce stripped him of a major part of his identity and SCDP is requiring him to adopt a more public persona to promote the agency. A main arc of the season is Don’s downward spiral, hitting bottom in “The Suitcase.” Don starts to face the question in “The Summer Man,” becoming more introspective, jounalling, etc. But when the biz falls apart, he literally rips those pages out of his journal as he moves back into the familiar “move forward, change the conversation” mode. And with the biz in turmoil, he rejects the mature relationship with Faye, who knows his secret and wants him to try to fix his problem (but is not great with his kids), in favor of Megan, who takes him as is (and seems better with his kids than Betty). I would have preferred that storyline have started earlier, but I get that Matt Weiner and the writers saw it as the product of the late-season bombshell (lucky Strike leaving). That may seem “soapy” to some, but I see a lot of people who try to work on their personal issues to varying result.
Don makes snap decisions. Going all the way back to when he took the real Don’s dog tags after the explosion. It’s a major part of his character and serves to motivate a ton of the shows plot lines. Don proposing to Megan on the spur of the moment (and out of left field as well) is very much in keeping with this tradition. Consider that among other possible interpretations of the final scene from S4 it’s very possible to read Don’s expression as already having some degree of second thoughts about what he’s done. All of these things, in my opinion, make the whole plotline with Megan very much in keeping with what the series has already established about Don’s character and personality.
@8 tf185- I wouldn’t worry about going off-topic on a post like this one. It isn’t really about a particular topic to begin with, and seemed to invite us to take it where ever we wanted it to go. If I’m wrong, I hope someone will correct me.
@RetroGirl
Thanks for the clarification.
tf185 you are doing just fine.
Great. I really like your site!
@ susan F: Whoa, Don is a coward? Anyone who wears the uniform in country where the bullets are flying could NEVER be considered a coward for the rest of their lives. Don did a cowardly thing by deserting, yes. However, the fact that his life hung in the balance every single minute he was in war, precludes the designation of cowardice. He was merely being smart in trying to get the hell out of there any way he could. An opportunity presented itself and he pounced. You can chastise him for it, and argue the morality/immorality aspect of it. Like the great Hawkeye Pierce said in the famous Interview episode of MASH said, “I’d do anything to get out of here, its crazy!”. Amen. Obtw; Megan is not going to make it to the altar.
I offer an alternative view on the question of Don Draper’s patriotism / cowardice.
Closing his fifty two years of service, General Douglas MacArthur addressed the Cadets of West Point. At the height of the technology driven Cold War, a great leader recognized that inspired people always make the difference.
“Duty, Honor, Country: Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying points: to build courage when courage seems to fail; to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith; to create hope when hope becomes forlorn.”
General Douglas MacArthur
Sylvanus Thayer Award Acceptance Address
West Point, NY
12 May 1962
Respectfully,
Rachel Mencken thought Don was a coward because he was about to desert his family (ironically when he thought he would get caught for being a war deserter). However, I don’t think patriotism or even war heroism means someone is truly brave (Duck “I killed 17 men in Okinawa” Phillips, or Betty’s father). Don seems to know there are no heros.