Who Will Save the Agency?

 Posted by on September 29, 2010 at 11:59 am  Characters, Season 4
Sep 292010
 

Ken, Harry & Sal

I’m trying to think of ways that SCDP could salvage the agency, once word gets out that Lucky Strike is leaving. I know Roger is scrambling to find something, but he doesn’t seem to be having much luck—and eventually everyone else is going to find out about it, probably before the 30 days reprieve that Lee Garner, Jr., gave to Roger. They need to find some big accounts so I’m guessing they will have to bring out not just the big guns but everyone, no matter how big or small, who could potentially help them.

So what can they do? Here are a few things I can think of, off the bat:

-Some big new account in California—Don always likes going there, it’s the land of opportunity, so I could see him exploring companies that are located there. Also, Harry is always talking about the coast, although he really needs Michael Dorsey (Dustin Hoffman’s character in “Tootsie”) to remind him that New York is a coast too.

-Ken Cosgrove’s rich father-in-law could come through (Pete and Harry talked about him when Harry first told Pete that Ken was getting married)

-It’s a remote possibility, but if they bring back Sal, now that Lee Garner is out of the picture, maybe Sal will have some new accounts from wherever he has been working (?). Again, I think this is remote, and I don’t know if Sal, not being an accounts man, would really have anything to bring them. I know loads of fans want to see Sal (I do too!), but Sal has to have something to come back to and right now the agency is in dire straits. Also, Stan is currently the Art Director, so if he stays, Sal would have to come back as a freelancer.

-Ted Chaough kept trying to compete with Don & SCDP. He’s already been on two different episodes, so maybe Don can steal a big account from Ted’s agency. They also showed that Smitty was working for Ted so maybe Smitty could be helpful with bringing some information to Don.

-Possibly, Don could get the Hilton account back. Connie Hilton decided to leave last year when he heard SCDP was going to McCann— maybe things would be different now.

Thoughts? Let me know if you could see any of these happening.

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  134 Responses to “Who Will Save the Agency?”

  1. what about the Honda car account from a previous ep? Maybe that could start up again. What year did cigarette ads get banned from airing on tv? I googled and found that the last cigarette ad aired in ’71, only 6 years away, so maybe it’s an omen they no longer have the a/c. Print media can only be so lucrative.

  2. Just a thought, but I wonder if another tobacco account might be in the works. The other cigarette companies must remember Don’s brilliant “toasted” campaign, and no Lucky Strikes also means no conflict.

  3. SpaghettiOs were introduced in 1965. That would be a good account to get.

    A number of products geared to kids also came out that year (games & cereals), adding a few of them to the account list would also help.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1965_introductions

    The Honda auto, as was mentioned above.

    I can’t remember exactly when 100 millimeter cigarettes were introduced, but there were lots of ads for them. If SCDP loses the Lucky Strike account, they could probably replace it with some other brand.

  4. Benson and Hedges!!!!

  5. Another possibility–SCDP&C does not lose LS.

  6. (Somebody said somewhere) that the reason Roger wanted 30 days and why the loss of Lucky Strike is a killer is that firm would become so small and overhead heavy that potential clients wouldn’t feel they would get adequate attention and old clients would look for a company with a future. So the “savior client” would have to be huge and attractive.

    Don doesn’t want any defense or security contracts, and likely wants to avoid politicians (Lindsey?). Peggy doesn’t like racists. Harry likes Hollywood. So make the company unattractive to squares by adopting “anti-establishment” styles serving youth-oriented clients. So Hilton is probably out.

    Corman/AIP? Levis? Audio equipment?

  7. They need to look beyond where they are.

    1) Lane has connections in London, and they’re at the height of the British invasion. Many of the top entertainers at this point are British. Maybe they need to look across the pond to companies like Cadbury, Schweppes, Gilbey’s, or Jaguar.

    2) Media at that time began its shift from New York to Los Angeles. Maybe it’s time SCDP ventured there as well, where the movie studios, NASA, Disney, oil, automobiles, tourism, agriculture and aerospace are abundant.

    3) There’s that virtually untapped, multi-billion dollar Negro market that Pete suggested a couple of years ago. But, of course, that would mean actually hiring someone who could provide “insight” into that realm since SCDP doesn’t really have a clue.

  8. I like the idea that Roger will bring back Sal to blackmail Lucky Strike so they stay.

  9. Or hell, go all the way to the youth market with Don revealing his secret. The draft avoiders and weekend hippies will love him.

    “We can’t show you the Second Story”

    The original Life idea was akin to “Can’t believe I ate the whole thing.”

    I think Don has it in him, and the switch from nostalgia to rebellion would be a good arc. I would almost like to go back and review all the rejected campaigns.

  10. It is possible that no one will save the agency. On any other show, I would put that prospect around zero percent. However, MAD MEN already blew up its entire status quo (and showed some popular characters the door) once.

    My guess is that one of the “chased and lost” clients comes back around. Hilton and American Airlines are the obvious candidates.

  11. Sal – I really hope he comes back. I don’t think Lee, Jr has the power anymore; I do think it’s up to the Board of Directors, so blackmailing Lee may not work. As I’ve said on another post here, it’s possible that Sal is at BBD&O, and when Lee, Jr visits, he’ll be in for a surprise!

    I do think Ken’s family relations may come into play and he will rise above Pete, who fell on his sword due to Don’s shit.

    They could go for Tampax, which was Duck’s idea for Peggy. They really should go to the youth market, British Invasion, African-American, women, as mentioned by #7.

    Los Angeles and TV makes sense.

  12. “Or hell, go all the way to the youth market with Don revealing his secret. The draft avoiders and weekend hippies will love him.

    “We can’t show you the Second Story”

    The original Life idea was akin to “Can’t believe I ate the whole thing.”

    I think Don has it in him, and the switch from nostalgia to rebellion would be a good arc. I would almost like to go back and review all the rejected campaigns.”

    Oh, yeah, bob, I agree with you.

    Losing Lucky Strikes and North American Aviation could be the best thing that ever happened to them. In the timeline of the show, tobacco ads on TV are nearing extinction, and as the War in Vietnam escalates, the last thing SCDP needs is to be affiliated with a defense contractor. After being behind the curve for so long, they can finally jump ahead of it. This is their opportunity to get on the right side of the cultural divide. It’ll be interesting to see if this is the route they take.

  13. My gut tells me we will see Conrad Hilton again, perhaps as a savior. We will also see Sal again, but maybe not until next season.

  14. Apparently, Luxury Length Pall Malls came out in 1966, which would be a little late to help SCDP in Summer ’65.
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,843696,00.html

    The following year, the “Disadvantages of You”commercial for Benson & Hedges, hit the air.
    http://tvparty.com/g2c/bensonhedges00.ram

  15. This is NOT a spoiler, but a link to a foreshawdow from a prior episode this season. Remember when LS called out Roger on the unethical practice of shifting the agency’s general overhead/travel expenses to the LS billings?
    Perhaps LGJr. was shielding Roger from the real reason the Board directed the dumping of the agency ( remember this whole episode is about secrets and facades).

  16. I really don’t see how any blackmail of Lee Jr would work.

    For one thing, dropping SCDP is not up to him; the corporation has realized he’s not the man his old man was & he’s losing power. (Of course, he’ll have enough money left that he will never have to work.) Should he have realized the possibility & warned Roger earlier? That would have been the smart & thoughtful thing to do, but I doubt either word applies to that asshole. Perhaps Roger should have thought of the big picture–but he’s been too busy frittering his life away.

    Ignoring that, what could Sal or anybody say to damage Lee Jr? That he made a gay proposition? Sorry, more proof would be needed.

    Ignoring both of the previous points–why the Hell would Sal help out here? He was ignored by doofus Harry, fired by Roger & finally rejected by Don–the only one who knows the true story. Even if SCDP survived, why would Sal return to work there? (I would, however, love to see Sal in some later episode–doing well in a new job. Except that, darn, Ken was supposed to marry Kitty!)

    Many of the other suggestions sound interesting, but I can’t venture to guess at this point.

    Roger should have been more aware of possible problems with the account. And he should not have left all his eggs in that basket. But his failure to inform the partners immediately is his most egregious error.

  17. Suz in Atlanta, LOL over Benson & Hedges. In the old, non-PC days, my mother used to send me (a child) to the cigarette machine to buy her Benson & Hedges. Of course, she hasn’t smoked for years and years now, but how fun it was to put the coins in the vending machine and pull the big knob to get a pack out.

    How about Roger HIMSELF saving the agency? He has his talents when he uses them. A little redemption for Roger, in addition to Don, coming? Finally, a real test for Roger?

    That being said, I adored the Conrad Hilton character and would love to see him again. I miss Sal, too. Other than duping Kitty, he was a great guy.

  18. I vote for Don and Roger to save the agency. They both have had difficulty this season, and Don needs his mojo back, and it’d be nice to see the older men rise to the occasion.

  19. I think SCDP will blackmail Lee Jr. at LS. I don’t know that they need “proof” that he’s gay–just the hint that they could expose him should be enough to figure out how to get the board to throw the biz to SCDP. In his meeting with Roger, Lee Jr. indicates that working with the board is just not his thing–perhaps this will light a fire under his butt to make it his thing.

    I also think Ken getting biz from his FIL is also a possibility. But I don’t know that any of it will be enough to make up for no LS.

    SCDP going out of business is a low probability in my opinion. They’ve already blown up one ad agency. I think it is too soon to kill another one.

    I would love to see a scene where Don and Roger lower the boom on Lee Jr.

  20. I tend to think either Roger will do something to save the agency or MW will kill him off or have him retire by season 5. Can’t see another season of him sitting around and dictating his memoirs.

    Then again, a re-appearance by Connie Hilton always seemed possible since it became known that so much of the agency’s biz rested with Lee Jr. And in that case, Don would be the hero, not Sterling.

  21. Main men Don and Roger and Pete have made this mess, one way or the other — it’s time for the secondary characters to show their strength and step forward to save SCDP.

    Yes, I believe Sal is coming back: what a delightful irony that he could bring business with him.

    Ken has that powerhouse account as a father-in-law, silly, ineffectual Harry of the first few seasons has become a powerhouse in his own right in Hollywood.

    As for blackmailing Lee Garner, that’s unlikely: for one thing, Garner had his father to fear in the past, that’s not the case now.

    For another, it’s unlikely that blackmail would be used by an advertising firm, since as Don spelled out in a previous episode their reason for being to serve their clients.

  22. I would like to see something besides autographed pictures and lifted yiddish come from Harry’s trips to California. It would be great if he could save the day, and he wouldn’t even have to use the word bomb, which is good.

    That is of course a wish. With dear Ida gone, he appears to be the go-to for comic relief in this series and we have not yet seen him make any tangible contributions to the agency.

  23. I hadn’t thought about Ken. I kind of wondered why they brought him back to the show; the only purpose he seems to have served so far is a character-development foil for Pete. Might be interesting to see Pete deal with Ken being a golden boy again.

    But, my money is on Don and Roger landing a big new client. The show’s about Don, and if they’re going to keep Roger around (which I hope) he’s ripe for some redemption.

  24. Of course, while we’re all thinking about ways to save the day, with only three episodes left in this season, Matt & Company are likely looking at cliffhangers, with nothing much being resolved at this point.

  25. Okay, I am not worried. SCDP has the one thing they need to weather any storm. Bert Cooper, Ninja Capitalist, Yoda in a bow tie with the brain of Ayn Rand.

    I love Roger, but he is a child. Without Lucky Strike, he would never have been invited along on Don’s wild ride.

    Essential to the firm now are Lane and Joan to run things and sign checks. Pete and Ken to bring in new clients, Don, Peggy and whatever art guy they settle on… (i love you, sal).

    They need to keep up the appearence of prosperity, while making hard choices.

  26. The answer is Trudy Campbell. Tom Vogel will do anything for his little girl and only child including saving Pete’s employer. Trudy’s baby is a huge motivator for Tom Vogel to act. He can infuse money into the agency. The surgeon general’s warning on cigarette packs is only a few months away. The popularity of Lucky Strike cigarettes is waning,( I smoked them back in 1965 and was in a distinct minority) Pete will be in control nominally but will be on a very short leash. Don will be the Agency’s President and Peggy will have increased duties. Vogel will insist that Don remain to keep Pete in check. Joan’s duties will remain the same; she will gain a partnership in the Agency. Roger will still be around though not working at the Agency. Sal will be rehired and Lane and Ken will be gone. Pete and Don will despise each other.

  27. Last week was all about everyone’s secrets coming back to bang them over the head- how about Don/Roger blackmails Lee Garner over the Sal incident and gets Lucky Strike to stay?

  28. Roger most definitely doesn’t have it in to hustle new business, if he ever did. Spoiled rich kid who had the business handed to him – isn’t that what Lee Gardner Jr’s retort was?

    We saw how “useful” Roger’s contacts were last week – dead and he didn’t even know it (sort of how SCDP is with LS at the moment).

    Don and Pete maybe could hustle new biz – the real problem is, no one at the agency knows the LS sword is dangling over them yet, so they’re losing valuable time to replace LS before those billings disappear and the SCDP P&L goes in the crapper.

  29. I’d like to see Bert galvanized into action beyond doing the crossword puzzle. He still has contacts – maybe the son or grandson of friends may have control of a powerhouse or two of businesses.

    And yes, get Harry off the plane and give him a deadline (like yesterday) to put all of his new west coast contacts to work. It would be nice to see Lane return from London not only newly on the way to being liberated from his family but with a major client or two as well. Let’s kill two birds with one stone – SCDP representing Berry Gordy’s Motown? Or a major record company (maybe Capitol or Atlantic Records?)

  30. I like the idea of Bert and/or Roger stepping up – though I dont know if Roger has it in him.

    Am I alone in not wanting fickle Connie back? I think I grew as tired of his games as Don did.

    I like the idea of American Airlines or Honda.

  31. Honda probably makes the most sense, especially if Roger takes a hit in his stature/presence in the firm for losing Lucky Strike (as he should).

    Don salvaged that situation the first time, so it’s the most plausible.

  32. How about Super Balls –the toy, no pun intended–which came out in 1965. That could make for a really humorous episode. Bring on the WHAM-O account!

  33. Lucky Strike’s departure may be a blessing for SCDP – I think cigarette advertising was banned around 1965/66 and the ad agencies all suffered as a result. I wonder if Don makes a call to Connie Hilton.

  34. #29 Capitol Records would be awesome. That was some Beatles concert. Remember when “Dr Anspach” said Faye revolutionized sanitary protection with her ads? And all the white shorts in the beginning of the season? Maybe Faye and Peggy would come up with mini-pads and Tampax.

    What company did Lane’s father work for in London?

  35. Connie Hilton will be the first call Don makes!

  36. BRING BACK JAI ALAI!

  37. [...] tried to get into this discussion at The Basket but my comment has yet to post up there (why is this??) and I’m almost out of Internet time [...]

  38. AND THERE IT IS. Thanks, blog-belonging-to-the-Basketcase-known-as-less-of-me!

    It was definitely in this episode: think of Lane with the Mickey Mouse doll (and the red, white, and blue balloons). Think of Pete telling the NAA guys that they’re “a friend of Anaheim”.

    Hell, think waaaay back to Connie Hilton, that first business discussion with Don: all that business about a mouse and a hotel.

    Who would you look to, if you’re a small firm and you need a big corporate friend? THE MOUSE.

    Disney.

  39. #38

    I think you have it! Even if you don’t, it is brilliant.

  40. (original thanks to my girl hullaballoo, of course: she was the first to drop that big hint)

    :)

  41. @7 hullaballoo-Cadbury would be great! Sally and Bobby would love it.

    @29 Floretta-I love them representing an indie label, but I think SCDP’s too square for that.

    @32 CKH-Poor Joan! You know they would be bouncing them against her door.

    I want to see Sal just to know he’s alive and well.

  42. Bah. Don Draper goes to the Beatles’ Shea Stadium concert and the Scales Fall From His Eyes, bigtime. He’ll come screaming back into the agency full of ideas on getting to the new youth generation. (1965 was a major year for that. I think the Free Speech stuff in Berkeley was happening about then, too.)
    Los Angeles, London, the guys have to get OUT there.

    I’ve always thought that Don would return to LA and the car culture anyway.

    As for Harry, Kenny, and Paul, we’ve barely seen anything of them this season.
    Even Betty has almost been an afterthought.

    As for Lee Garner, Jr, I really want to see him get this comeuppance… only I don’t want him to go away. That actor, Darren Pettie, is the second coming of Lee Marvin. If more fist fights are coming, I definitely want him in there swinging.

  43. Hey! Did I see a real mouse in the office? Or did the spectre of Anna bring that with her?

  44. 24:I thought for a while about cliffhangers, but then remembered, I think, that Matt Weiner doesn’t really do that. Each season has ended with a major change, but we are usually pretty clear about the direction the next season will go. There aren’t bombs going off, “Who lives, who dies?” kinda stuff.

    I wondered earlier about which cast members are signed for next year, although that might be a kind of spoiler, and if were Weiner, I would try to keep it quiet, or have contracts like the one he apparently has with Brie. Often series have cliffhangers because contracts are in negotiation. Whedon also had finales instead of cliffhangers.

    Anyway, I am guessing that the season ends on a major, but positive change.

  45. Although I think the ‘blackmail’ speculation (to keep Lucky Strike) is a bit on the edge, I’m hard pressed to come up with another strategy to save SCD&P.

    Lucky Strike was around $25 mil in billings, and, last I heard, it represented close to 70% of SCD&P’s business. To make things worse, they just lost $4 mil in billings from the resignation of the NAA account.

    Adding Hilton or whatever isn’t going to save the ship…. even if they had the full 30 days head start (which they don’t because Roger is keeping it a secret.)

    One telling point about what an incompetent Account man Roger Sterling really is: When Lee Jr. told him that the Board of Directors wanted to consolidate all of their lines with one agency (BBDO), Roger’s response was “Why not bring them all to SCD&P?” A good Account Rep would have worried about that (consolidation) happening long before — especially given how critical the Lucky Strike account was to his business. A good Account Rep would have tried to bring more of Am Tobacco’s lines to SCD&P or risk losing the one brand they did have.

    Either SCD&P saves the day with Lucky Strike OR it’s curtains. Roger is in the dumper. Lane is gone. Burt retires to his ranch in Montana. Don, Peggy and Pete get to go work for someone else.

  46. 43:Mouse, Mickey Mouse toy. Damn

    Anybody ever figure out the mouse?

  47. #33, EE:

    I never thought to connect the Lucky Strike loss to the coming ban on cigarette advertising. Great thought, there.

    So I went and found this, from Wikipedia:

    ‘In April 1970, Congress passed the Public Health Cigarette Smoking Act banning the advertising of cigarettes on television and radio starting on January 2, 1971. The Virginia Slims brand was the last commercial shown, with “a 60-second revue from flapper to Female Lib”, shown at 11:59 p.m. on January 1 during a break on The Tonight Show.’

    Those bastards fought the ban to the last second.

    Incredible.

  48. #43, l-o-m …

    Eeeeeeeeeek!

    There’s a way out of here we don’t know about …

    (I just stood up in my office and did a little dance)

    :)

  49. I agree with Conrad Hilton, that has to be the first place that Don will be looking.

    To throw a really odd duck into the ring: Rockefeller or some major NY politician via Betty/Henry?

  50. I say that because Betty seemed awfully pleased with Don in regard to the Beatles tickets (a face that suggested an old feeling of love and glee, probably from when Don was more fun/care-free and would surprise her with furs, etc.).

    I have also had a weird inclination about a Betty/Don reunion, with Betty moving to New York with the family and losing Henry. Especially after the conversation with Sally, which made the move from Ossining to NYC not seem so painful. That’s another topic.

  51. To #38 the Anne of B I say–

    (very Higgins-ish) I think she’s got it. I really think she’s got it.

    “The mouse in the house will save the struggling souse.”

    Ha, ha.

    Follow the Mouse Don! The Mouse will show you light Don. Find your cheese Donald. It’s buried in the swamps of FLA.

  52. Once Sal was attracted to Ken…

    Don could set a trap for Lee Garner, J and with the help of incriminating photos entice Lucky Strike to consolidate all advertising at SCDP.

  53. Ooohh, just had an idea. I may be all wet on this, but the title of the next episode is Chinese Wall. This is when a company keeps walls (procedures/policies) in place so that information that shouldn’t be shared, won’t be. Like insider trading info at financial firms where someone may know something about a firm (merger, buyout) that if someone else in their firms knows would impact their decisions (buying more of the stock, selling it) in an illegal manner.

    Faye used that term before. She is a consultant. SHE works with other firms on their accounts. That’s why she has to keep all information from on client secret from another. BUT she is big time involved with Don. Would SHE be the catalyst for a big account? Would she break the “Chinese Wall” and give Don information that would allow him to steal a big client from another firm?

    I sure don’t know if it’s right…but it fits.

  54. Virginia Slims! You’ve Come A Long Way, Peggy!

  55. How about Capitol Records…..the Beatles were with them when they first hit America, before they started their own label Apple, right? Come on Don, get that account. It’s the British Invasion…..Yeah Yeah Yeah! The Lads from Liverpool save the day!!!!

  56. So many interesting comments–thanks to everyone who has commented so far. To respond to a few:

    #16 Not Bridget:

    Ignoring both of the previous points–why the Hell would Sal help out here? He was ignored by doofus Harry, fired by Roger & finally rejected by Don–the only one who knows the true story. Even if SCDP survived, why would Sal return to work there?

    Very true, I thought of that too. They would definitely have to make it worth his while, and when I say “they,” I mostly mean Don, because I feel he’s the main one who needs to apologize since he’s the one Sal worked with the most closely before.

    It’s possible Sal could come back, but it’s a sticky wicket. If Stan is the Art Director, then Sal would have to be a freelancer, and why woud he really want that? Unless he has been freelancing and likes it. Alternatively, if Stan was to quit or to get fired, Sal could return to work as the head art director, and if they apologized and offered him a great salary, maybe he would. (Which is contingent on SCDP actually being able to stay afloat and pay employees well.)

    #24 SmilerG – I thought of that too, that the season could possibly end with things unresolved. But as others have suggested, it doesn’t seem to be Weiner’s style.

    For those of you that suggested SCDP representing one of the major record companies, that’s a great idea. Disney is also a great idea, and one that seems really viable. (They could at least get a piece of the pie.)

    #53 Sstnt – it’s an interesting idea about Faye. I’m not sure if she would though. She seems more honorable than that. I don’t know if she signs contracts with these various agencies (I assume so?), so if so, it would be a pretty big breach of ethics for her to betray one of them. It makes more sense (IMO) if an employee of agency did something like that, for instance, Smitty telling Don about an account that Ted had, or one that Ted was trying to get. Copywriters like Smitty aren’t under contract and if they’re not being well-treated at their current agency (which was the impression I got, from his brief scene with Ted), they might be more likely to jump ship.

    Another possibility regarding Faye though: when she and Don are together (if at her apartment…), maybe he would come across some records or documents that would give him an idea. And then she’d be upset that he betrayed her and stole another client’s idea. Just a thought. It’s also possible he could find something and she wouldn’t know that he did.

  57. Forgot to mention–a few people have suggested that Don & Roger could blackmail Lee. I suppose it’s possible, but I don’t really see it happening. Wouldn’t they have to work with him? And then he’d be extremely bitter, understandably. Unless there was a way they could oust him from the company, because if he wasn’t there, and they were dealing with someone else, it could be better. That seems unlikely–unless possibly they got inside information about someone else at Lucky Strike who wanted to take over if Lee left.

    Whether they can keep Lucky Strike or not, I do like the idea of Roger being proactive and finding a way to keep SCDP afloat (Roger, or a combined effort by Roger & Don). As some of you suggested, that would give him some redemption, and right now, he really needs it.

  58. #57 If the resolution to this mess turns out that Roger bails out the agency, then my opinion of MM and M Weiner’s writing will plummet.

    Roger has done or shown nothing in the first 4 seasons that would indicate he could do anything of the sort. Compare his lack of effort/intelligence to a relative ‘kid’ like Pete Campbell.

    Roger could use some redemption, but it’s sure as hell not going to come by replacing $25 mil of billings in just 30 days.

  59. I hear ya, David Ogilvy.

    Roger does often “skate by.” As Lee pointed out, he inherited the LS account. Last season, when Don and Bert first approached Roger about PPL/McCann, Roger was ready to call it a day & retire. I don’t really know if he has that much “fight” left in him–I hope so. Sometimes a “kick in the teeth” like this thing with LS makes someone realize that they need to act.

    But, as you say, maybe he isn’t really capable of acting. Not alone. If it was a combined effort between him and Don (which would take a lot of Don’s creativity, combined with Roger charming someone to get information & access), then maybe.

  60. The thing about Roger is…. he delivers the best lines.

    As a man, he hasn’t done much to recommend him in a long time. But as a character in my favorite show, well, I hope doesn’t get a sendoff anytime soon.

  61. #59 A “kick in the teeth” often gets some folks moving, but not a complete incompetent like Roger.

    After he got a 30 day reprieve, he then kept the news from his partners, allowing Pete to give up $4 million in North American, and then let the managing partner go home to London for 2 weeks. Roger took a disastrous situation and screwed it up even more. His only effort to save the day has been to call up dead people from his rolodex.

    And Don is not an Account person… he can’t save the day (outside of a Hilton Hail Mary). Pete is the only one the agency would turn to IF they knew they were in trouble. Maybe Pete hears about Lee Jr’s decision through the back channels, and, after throwing Roger out the window, tries to save the day.

  62. The sad thing is Roger could be a world-class account guy. He’s immensely likable. In fact, I’d argue he has more natural charm than anyone in SCDP, which is huge in terms of bringing in and keeping accounts. The problem is, as everyone knows, he’s butt lazy and has been handed everything but the key to the city from birth.

    I’m hoping MW doesn’t kill him off; at worst, let him retire and then pop up for an occasional guest appearance. But if he doesn’t get up off his bupkus and do something, I can’t see his worth heading into next season. Lord knows, he and Joan would seem to be beyond dead at this point, and though the Sterling/Draper friendship represents about the only outside office friendship Don has, I could see MW willing to sacrifice it. So that leaves what, him to dictate his memoirs?

    This entire season (in terms of Roger’s storyline) has been about his uselessness and desperate, craven relationship with Lucky Strike. I’ve always had a sneaking suspicion that MW was building up to an end of the season moment where Sterling shows his true worth.

  63. #62 With all due respect to your sneaking suspicion, my even sneakier suspicion is that MW is building up to a Roger Sterling suicide. It’s been a season of depression, rejection, isolation and the one time he sows his oats he knocks up his old pal Joanie and has to send her to Jersey.

    Losing the LS account sure sounds like the final straw.

    Good new is that while MM will lose a great supporting actor, they’ll gain a great full-time director!

    btw, I really have enjoyed the character and the actor’s portrayal, but in the harsh reality of a small business trying to make it, there’s no room in the boat for an expensive incompetent. Roger may be joining Mrs. Blankenship by the end of the season.

  64. I seriously doubt Sal’s name will be mentioned this season. Like Lee Garner Jr. said, it wasn’t even his decision to begin with. I have a feeling that the firm effectively loses Lucky Strike, but devise a plan to land a major account in time to partially salvage the company. (Edited by moderator)

    It’s also worth noting that Don hasn’t given a great pitch all season. His best one was probably for the Janzen swimsuit, but the company was opposed to the very idea. From a dramatic storytelling POV, landing a major account like Disney with an incredible pitch would be a satisfying close to a season in which Don sunk to new lows, then gradually started rebuilding himself.

  65. #63 I can’t see Roger committing suicide over Lucky Strike. Isn’t he still very wealthy? And married to a young woman? (Who knows, maybe Jane can save the day with some Hamptons contact).Roger is basically a very optimistic fellow. I don’t see him falling apart or being ashamed of his in-actions. I can see Lane committing suicide more than Roger.

    #65 TWP Mad Men spoilers is the “go to” place for that stuff. This forum and TWP are the two best places.

  66. I just can’t see the extortion thing happening. I know Don and Roger have done some bad things but not like that. And it’s unworkable going forward.

    I, too, have a feeling we are building to some kind of Don and Betty reunion. In fact, I irrationally long for it. I don’t know why.

  67. #68 Roger may not be all that “liquid” in his assets. I assume he and Bert put in seed money to start the new agency and of course Mona got half of what he had in the divorce. Meanwhile Roger spends money like a 21 year old at a strip joint.

    I’d say that Roger has exactly the suicidal profile. Middle aged, declining health, excessive life style. I’m reminded of the British Actor, George Sanders (a husband to Zsa Zsa, I think) who killed himself about 30 years ago, leaving a 3 word suicide note… “I was bored.”

  68. #70 I think of George Sanders from time to time. If Roger is broke, I’d go with the suicide. It would be a powerful episode. But he didn’t seem to care too much about Joan giving up the baby. I think he’s too narcissistic to commit suicide — unless Jane leaves him, his health declines, he’s broke and he begins to question everything in a real way. He could symbolize the decline of the WASP.

  69. #68

    Seeing as this site has a no-spoiler policy active in almost all threads, how is it a “go to” place for spoilers?

  70. I see the agency possibly landing another tobacco account – despite the coming TV & radio ban, they will still have a good 5 years of broadcast spending. And the tobacco companies didn’t stop advertising in the 1970s – they just moved their budgets to magazines, billboards, sponsorships. The agency will get 15% on those billings (sponsorships have a difference financial set-up).

  71. How about expanding upon the Mountain Dew label and pick up Pepsi? Pepsi is based in New York.

  72. 38,43, 46, 48, 51 et al

    Of course, the mouse!

    The press conference announcing the development of Disney World and Epcot was held Nov 20, 1965 after news of who was really behind the major land acquisitions in the area was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel in October of the same year. Disney had been buying up property under various dummy corporations from 1963 to 1965.

    per Wikipedia “Disney World Resort” entry.

  73. Also, from The Gypsy and the Hobo, “I’ll always love Minnie Mouse.” – Sally Draper.

  74. #12 you and I are thinking alike, hullabaloo.

    Public sentiment will turn against cigarets and cigaret ads, and North American Aviation’s big project was the Apollo command module for NASA, responsible for the deaths of 3 astronauts in 1967. The guys in the meeting mention Anaheim, but NAA’s offices were in Downey, so they’re dropping hints about the Anaheim Rockwell plant where the Minuteman Missile program was centered and which will become North American Rockwell. My dad was an engineer there.

  75. Earlier, I proposed that this near to the end of the season, the show goes into a cliffhanger mode.

    There were some posts that suggested that Matt doesn’t do “cliffhangers”.

    The end of Season One left us hanging with news of Peggy’s pregnancy.

    Season Two left us hanging with the Cuban Missile Crisis and whether Don would stack around at SC.

    Season Three left us hanging wondering if the new SCDP would make a good go of it.

    Apparently “cliffhanger” isn’t the right word, but it is the right concept.

  76. #72

    I amend this to read that they are the two best Mad Men sites in general. TWO is also the go to “spoiler” site.

    edit: I believe you meant TWoP, and although it’s fine to mention it briefly here, let’s not get off-topic (and please everyone remember that discussion of specific spoilers is not allowed at BoK.) Thank you.-MadChick

  77. No suicide for Roger.

    I also think Jane has found herself someone else. She goes to the Hamptons for the weekend on Wednesdays now. There’s still life for Roger beyond this season.

    Wouldn’t it be funny if y’all were right about Disney? Love the comments, esp. 75 and 77.

  78. #70 George sanders’ note read:

    Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck

  79. #63 I think Roger’s death is a distinct possibility and it could be an indirect suicide. He knows he’s not supposed to drink or smoke or eat rich foods, and he’s now got the added stress of losing Lucky Strike and Joan’s pregnancy. I can see him going on a bender and then keeling over.

    Who could save the agency? Who has money? Roger was taken to the cleaners by Mona, but Bert has money and so does Don (Betty didn’t take anything in the divorce and he can’t be paying all that much for his aparment). Pete has access to money, so does Ken. They didn’t have to put in money for SCDP but maybe now they will.

  80. Part of this show would die without Roger around. He is just way too entertaining. I doubt he’ll go.

  81. No suicide for Roger.

    I also think Jane has found herself someone else. She goes to the Hamptons for the weekend on Wednesdays now.

    Interesting. I hadn’t thought about that.

    #83 Brenda – A friend of mine mentioned Bert Cooper’s sister, Alice too. And yes, I could see Pete and/or Ken helping out in that way. But, investors will only take them so far. They really need an account (at least one) that will be a cash cow.

    edited to add: Ken’s father-in-law (impending father-in-law? I don’t know if Ken & Cynthia are married yet) is the CFO at Corning. Anyone know how potentially large an account Corning could be, in terms of billings?

  82. I think Roger has great lines, but things aren’t looking good for him right now.

    Generally, I would say he is not the suicidal type. But he is so used to being “elite” I think if he lost all of that at his age with his personality–I don’t know.

    I would not be shocked if he dies or has serious health complications. It could be another heart attack. It could be some form of “abusing his health.” It could be a something more self destructive.

    I think it would be more stressful for Roger if Joan keeps the baby. (Again, I won’t be shocked if she did abort, but I won’t be shocked if she didn’t–it was a little ambiguous and I think she’s capable of either choice.)

    If Roger can’t get new business, if the other partners get very angry, if Joan gets really angry about either LS or the pregnancy, if he is low on funds, and if things are not good with Jane (either she’s cheating on him or she explodes at him) — I think it could add up to “enough all at once” that Roger does something self destructive.

    The thing is, while the show will miss his charm, I’m not sure if SCDP will miss him too much if the other partners can bring in enough alternative business.

    How “low budget” can the firm go?

    Roger and Cooper seem to expect to get a return on their investments. They were rich in Season 1.

    If Roger and/or Cooper went their happy way, could Don, Lane, and Pete function as a scrappy little company with really low overhead?

    But Don, Lane, and Pete seem like they’d be willing to work for several years without huge profits if it led to long-term success.

    Actually, Cooper doesn’t have years and years left to live. He doesn’t seem to have children (have I forgotten anything). He could have retired.

    Maybe he will sell his Rothko and some of his items and keep things going for awhile because “you can’t take it with you.”

    I don’t think it would be crazy to move to California–except the whole title of the show is “Mad Men” based on Madison Avenue advertising agencies. ‘Cal Men’ doesn’t have the same flair. :)

  83. Something that has been nagging me since watching the meeting with Roger and Lee Garner Jr.:

    “Give me 30 days.”

    “What’s that going to do?”

    “After all the lies I’ve told for you, you owe me that.”

    What are the lies to which Roger is referring? He may not know the whole truth about Junior as Don does, but I suspect he knows more than he lets on. I don’t think he and Don would necessarily use it to blackmail Lucky Strike, but it does make me wonder what Roger might do with the information now that SCDP has been kicked to the curb by their biggest client.

  84. I’ve got a bad feeling all of a sudden. I’m now worried that people are picking up bona fide spoilers on other forums and sneaking them in here in the cover of night.

    I hate spoilers. I won’t even watch the previews of next week’s show because I want it all to surprise me as it happens.

    Curiously, some people like to know what’s happening beforehand. Damned if I know why.
    ____________________________

    You can relax, Chris: many of us that moderate here are vigiliant about that kind of thing. And for the record, I do read/check out spoiler boards/forums from time to time, but there are very few “real” spoilers that actually see the light of day. Most of it is just casting spoilers and from time to time people get access to photos. Unlike other shows, where scripts float around, Mad Men is kept on a very tight leash and Matt Weiner really insures that people don’t know much about what is happening.
    -MadChick

  85. #88

    Chris H, I agree with you about spoilers. I don’t like them and I stick to this blog because of the no spoiler policy.

    My post #75 is purely speculation, for what it’s worth. The only thoughts that led me there were in the previous comments from this thread that I noted and a little research on Disney World in Wikipedia (to which I referred).

    No spoilers for me (or from me, either)!

  86. If Mad Men wants to enter the pantheon of great American dramas (which right now is rather sparse – I count only The Wire and The Sopranos as great American dramas), it has to be willing to let go of characters permanently. That doesn’t mean Roger has to die this season, but characters like Sal, Rachel Menken, and Conrad Hilton should not be making returns under any circumstance.

  87. Echos Myron, I disagree with you. Characters can return when the time is right. It’s a matter of circumstances and letting the character return in a way that seems real. Matt Weiner talked in interviews about Rachel after Season 1, and he said that although he loved the character, he didn’t see her being with Don at that time. But, Don was still married then. And she’s married. If Rachel was to divorce in the future (or if her husband died….) I think she could see her way clear to being with Don again — possibly.

    Sal had to leave because of the situation with Lucky Strike. In the future, when LS is gone as an account, the door is open for him to return. But again, if Don apologizes, if they make Sal a good offer, if they actually have an open job for him, etc., etc., etc. It’s all about circumstance and timing.

    As for Connie–I think they totally left the door open for him to return. He and Don even had words to that effect.

  88. Chris H — I don’t know if there are spoilers on this thread. There were on the Megan thread, and after Googling them, they looked legit. But I think they’ve been scrubbed since.

    I can’t see the retrun of Sal playing into the Lucky Strike account unless Roger and Don decided to offer up Sal on a platter for Lee Garner Jr., and who knows if the latter would still be that interested in Sal or if said interest would be enough to save the account. I’m guessing Lee Garner Jr. is a pretty hardline, manipulative businessman at the end of the day. He’d probably take Sal for a roll in the hay and the next morning take Lucky Strikes biz over the national ad firm the board desires. Loyalty is probably a stronger principle with the father than the son.

    I did think Disney too — saw that mentionted earlier — and hey, there’s always that little hamburg chain Ray Kroc started out in S.D. Who knows. Grasping like everyone else.

    A Roger suicide? Don’t see it. Too much joie de vivre in the man. But I could see a third and fatal heart attack brought on by the stress and a failure to curb his vices.

  89. Echos Myron, I’m sorta with Mad Chick on that one. I know what you mean, and in a general, theoretical sense, I think you’re more right than wrong. But I think there are exceptions and so long as they’re handled in a believable, careful way, they can work and even enhance current storylines and probe more deeply into character.

    To me what Weiner should be more concerned about is seemingly indulging the audience’s most cliched desires (“we want Roger and Joanie together!”) or being too cutesy and teasing us for too long with ambiguous resolutions — a classic example of that being Peggy’s baby, and if he’s not careful, Joan’s did or didn’t she abortion.

    But those criticisms aside, it still might be the best television drama I’ve ever seen, and the show’s strengths far, far outweigh its occasional weaknesses.

  90. I don’t think Roger would deliberately kill himself. Drink nonstop until his liver craps out on him? Maybe. Have a third and fatal heart attack? That seems a lot more likely, given the fact that surviving two heart attacks for more than five years was not very common then. Now people can survive heart disease for decades, what with all the fancy procedures they have these days. But all Roger has are meds (nitro, probably, and maybe Coumadin, too), and while those have probably helped, his days are still numbered. (And I’m not even so sure about the Coumadin, since that has to be managed really carefully and Roger is not the most careful guy about what he puts in his mouth.)

    Okay, back to topic. Yeah, I’m smelling Disney in the offing, myself. Walt himself would be gone by the end of ’66, but he wasn’t diagnosed until maybe a month before he died, so in ’65 he’d still have been working on lots of stuff. But boy, talk about a land mine in terms of sexist and racist hiring practices! And not letting men with long hair and beards into Disneyland! I can see Peggy getting rations of shit from her friends over that one.

  91. About Sal: I’d love to see him back, of course. But why would he want to work for people who treated him like such shit? There would have to be some pretty serious groveling, and some pretty big $$ involved, I’d think, for him to even consider it. He probably did all right for himself professionally after being let go; he’s a talented guy with lots of experience, including directing commercials. Also, Stan has his old job, and as slimy as he is, he hasn’t done anything they could fire him for…yet.

  92. I think a move to California would be the way to go for SCDP. It’s something we’ve certainly seen in foreshadowing the last couple of years. And it would be great if they capitalized on the growing anti-establishment movement — they could be the agency that says fvcku! Let the creative revolution begin. Don, Lane and Pete would be just the people to head a firm like that. I hope they move in that direction — especially with Cooper getting older, and Roger becoming more irrelevant on a daily basis.

  93. “That seems a lot more likely, given the fact that surviving two heart attacks for more than five years was not very common then.”

    It somewhat depended on the severity of the heart attack. If one was massive, then yes, you are right. But if both were minor a survivor could still lead a reasonably long life *provided* they were making proper lifestyle adjuststments, which Sterling obviously isn’t. A friend of mine had both an uncle and grandfather who had heart attacks in the pre-stent/angioplasty/open-heart days at relatively young ages of late 40s/early fifties, and both lived reasonably healthy, active lives until their early eighties. The common denominator in each case? They’d been heavy smokers leading up to their heart attacks, and both tossed the ciggies for good once they got clear of the hospital.

    Actually, even before last week’s panic attack, Draper seemed like a prime candidate for some early heart disease. You live like that, you better have Keith Richards genes once you hit your forties, and not too many mere mortals are gifted with that cockroach-like constitution.

  94. After 1966 the money in cigarette advertising was increasingly in billboard ads, and a number of NY ad execs anticipated (and covered) their TV losses by renting/buying undervalued billboard spaces in all the major cities. If Bert is still conscious, he might make a move in that direction. I think Disney is a good idea – Matt Weiner has been dropping Micky and Minnie mentions throughout the series and he rarely leaves loose threads untied. I still think Connie might be called – it is Don’s deception that cost SCDP the defense work and he will step up to repair the damage (as he did with Wall Street Journal after Ad Age misstep.) This will shift even more of the focus of the agency to him, and it suggests a model like Jack Tinker & Partners, the legendary boutique ad agency from the mid 60s which produced trend-setting ads and extraordinary alumni.

  95. Echos Myron, one of the fine whimsies of life is when characters from your past suddenly show up again. Well, often it is a fine thing.

    That could be a beguiling thing in a long-form drama as well. I’m presently watching The Wire on DVD and one of the entertaining aspects of it is the way people from the past suddenly show up again, but it’s not hammered heavily or played cute.

    So if Rachel walked by the table in a restaurant and looked down at Don with her coal-black eyes… uh, I’d be OK with that.
    If Sal reappears as a post-Stonewall leader, hell, I’d be glad to see him.

    What did Holden Caulfied say? “It’s funny. Don’t ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody.”

  96. I read that Disney did all of their advertising in-house, but then again, the show’s always had a certain leeway in depicting the real-life companies and the development of the campaigns.

  97. Those photos that are posted of the luscious Jessica Pare (Megan) and Jon Hamm, apparently in California, and clearly from one of the last few episodes, makes me think that California will be the spot where the new business appears.

    How about bringing back Sal, then inviting Lee Jr. to stop by, just for old time’s sake? Lee Jr. might get concerned that Sal would be able to “out” him… you never know… and keep the business at SCDP.

    I’d love to see Paul Kinsey reappear, as well, with a couple of accounts in his briefcase. Not likely. I’m guessing that Kinsey is now working in the drama department at New York University… but, I’d like to hear a reference to him at some point.

    This season will be hard-pressed to end with as big of a bang as last season’s finale… but, I think it will be pretty close.

    [I could be wrong, but I think this is right on the edge of the site's spoiler policy. Let's be careful. -- Karl]

  98. Also… PLEASE no Roger suicide or legit death. That would suck. I want to see Roger rise up and redeem himself by the end of the season… THAT is what this season needs.

  99. Maybe Sal can come to the rescue and blackmail Lee. After all, Lee did hit on him.

  100. Heroic death scenes are not the MM style. Still, if Roger has to go out someday, he’d probably want to go out while in the saddle.

  101. When an entire show suddenly uproots and settles itself in a new location, it leaves this inauthentic aftertaste, like the vacation episode of a sit-com. Nip/Tuck did it to my knowledge, and I don’t know to what success because I had stopped watching it by then. A move to California would be unwise, and not only because the name of the show would stop making sense, but because they would have to go for a complete reboot of the mythology of the show, as well. From little things like P. J. Clarke’s to the singing of ‘Midtown’ to Salinger and Cheever, who wrote about New York. The show is entering a much darker territory and it’s suitable that New York follows by losing its ritzy glamour. I too see someone coming through for the company, Honda and Hilton spring to mind, but I think I could still find the humour in the company being sold (again) to BBDO or something.

  102. Muscle Cars. Ford Mustang came out late 1964. Don had a good look at some nice cars in California. The muscle car wars are about to start

  103. Has anyone considered that maybe SCDP does NOT survive?

    The loss of Lucky Strike and the death of Ida may just convince Bert he’s been on the ice floe all this time anyway and motivate him to spend his last days in MT with his cattle.

    Those two items plus The Joan Situation and the Rolodex of Death may just be enough for Roger to consider his Luck has run out. The party’s over. The check’s come due for the Movable Feast.

    Don may have to run or go to jail or may just curl up and hide for a while.

    And who knows what happens to Lane in England?

    It would be a bold narrative gamble to get rid of (most of) the Mad Men. Or to at least strip the agency down again, maybe to Pete, Peggy and Ken for next year. Put Don out in the real world for a while and see what happens to him. Hmmm.

    PS– Hey Jordan Orlando. Which characters have the incongruent pillars in their workspace? Maybe these are the ones the hold the second floor up somehow, prevent the collapse of SCDP this year.

  104. All of the “clues” referenced above surely point to Disney.

    The various “mouse” references; actual mice roaming the floor of the office; Lane’s stuffed Mickey; Sally’s loving Minnie; etc.,

    The West Coast visits of Don, Pete and now Harry;

    NAA’s reference to Anaheim; and also, not yet mentioned directly:

    The NAA reference to the “Moon” and Connie’s wanting the “Moon” and Connie’s first ad shown to Don that had the two mice which Don rejected then.

    The clincher in my opinion may have been the earlier post noting that Disney is now a significant advertiser for MAD MEN.

    BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE–

    In last week’s posted interview, Kiernan said that her favorite episode had not yet been seen. Episode 13 is titled “Tomorrowland.” I believe Sally and sibs go to Disneyland ( in connection with Don’s visit to the Disney account) .Megan serves as both secretary ( not Secretariat )and chaperone.

  105. #109, I’ve been wondering that, too. We may follow Don to another job at another agency.

  106. I’d be surprised if the expensive new office set is not used for next season. So my bet is: no move to CA or elsewhere, and still some version of SCDP – maybe severely diminished.

    109: Pete has a pillar in his office.

  107. They could market at country. Canada will become independent in 1967 and they will have a new flag. There were plenty of commercials touting Canada. Kitty’s cousin had an ad agency in Montreal and maybe Sal can come back somehow. I think Sal is probably a director now; he was moving up.

    Jessica Pare is bilingual — it would be a nice surprise to hear her speak French.

  108. @ 113: “Canada will become *independent* in 1967″?? Try 1867 (gave or take a few things that came through in 1922). 1967 was Canada’s centennial. I’ll be pretty surprised if it gets noticed in Mad Men at all, aside perhaps from a brief call-out to Expo ’67 in Montreal.

  109. Thanks for Pete bling. Much obliged. You enabled my natural laziness though.

    But I just took a minute finally and I can now recommend the Basket Search Bar to all, I found the post with the office diagram.

    If I read it right, only Pete and Don have pillars in their offices; the other four form a rectangle around Joan, the conference room and the secretaries.

    So, my theory now: Bert, Roger, Lane go – in various ways. Don wants to run (I actually like this about him: the flight response is just as useful and valid as the fight response after all, just not as “manly” to the fans) — but he owes Pete (of all people, “who knows how loyalty is born?”) and stays to form one of those smaller, hip shops the experienced ad people say were becoming popular back then.

    (just postulating ’til the drugs wear off.)

  110. #114 1967 was a typo. The country could get noticed by Mad Men. “Chrysanthemum and the Sword” is pretty obscure, and that was noticed, as was Patio. Canadian tourism ads were very popular from 1965 onward on US TV.

  111. #115 l-o-m,

    That all sounds plausible. Cut, print, run it (and leave room for the selfish hope that they’ll end up keeping Lane, whom I have come to love.)

    I like Take-Flight Don too, in part because he is so much like the downside of me. I will always, always take a runner when I feel threatened. In most cases this is not the right thing to do, and I know it. But it remains my way of coping with stress.

    The balance of Don, Pete, and Peggy works well. Time and experience have rubbed some of the smarm off our Pete, and replaced it with a combination of work ethic and open-air optimism. He is becoming the kind of person who believes more in where he — and everyone else — is going, than in where anyone has been.

    And Peggy is the engine of industry behind them both. Don in particular would be lost without her.

    (Just ruminating till the coffee wears off. Like my friend up there. :) )

  112. #90, surely Mad Men has already joined the pantheon of great American TV dramas. I count only The Sopranos as its equal.

    Visits to California are great but I hope most of the characters stay New Yorkers! Says a Texan.

  113. Uh oh! #118 — you dropped The Wire??!!

    If Anne B is still caffeinated, and finds time to goldbrick, there could be war.

    Prepare for Off-Topic satellite spin-out, in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

    Take it away Bunk!

  114. btw- of course The Sopranos was top-notch. Whadda ya gonna do.

    Yet, to save SCDP, I’d prefer and trust either Prop Joe, Lester or String to rectify the situation.

  115. I especially can’t see Pete leaving NYC for LA. I love the image if him aging into one of those stubborn New Yorkers who stuck by the city even as it descended into grime and crime in the 1970′s.

  116. I just saw that a poster on another site says Disney. (Edit: Just to be clear, that is just speculation– and if you do see a spoiler on another site, do not post it here. – MadChick) Its perfect. First they find out about Lucky Strike, the season ends with the company on the brink of collapse, then they open season 2 with everything rescued by the huge new work for Disney and the new Florida theme park and hotel development. Disney management comes looking for Don, because they liked his work for Hilton; meanwhile, Harry’s contacts in LA introduce him and the firm to Disney. Disney then becomes the major client that saves the firm.

    Not only that, but it then gives an entirely new meaning to Don’s comment to Peggy, about the rat/mouse he can’t catch, that it shows there is another way out of here that they don’t know about. Metaphorically, the mouse is the way out for SCDP.

  117. The Disney account is a very good possibilty most likely brought in by Don.(he wants the high exposure). But I believe Peggy, who is the only one who burns the midnight oil, will not want to watch all her hard work sink like the Titanic. She is very level headed and knows there is big business in the negro market. Peggy can tap into Joyce’s and Abe’s knowledge if need be. She will approach Pete (another person who wants to succeed in the worst way) and together they will explore and woo this untapped goldmine. Don or Roger will not be able to say no because they will need the business. (I’m not sure if Don would say no, Roger is the question mark). And the wise old Bert will just sit back and smile.

  118. Day late and a dollar short – I just saw that a poster above says the same thing. Let me add in, then, that Lucky Strike is now gone, Disney is too big of new work for the staff in place, and Sal comes back next season to be the art director for all of the Disney work – tv commercials, ads, etc.

  119. Oh – and if so, there is no doubt that Sal will play a role in the Stonewall riots.

  120. Kenny?
    Didn’t it come up that his fiance’s father is CEO of Corning Glass? ….that’s the type of blue chip consumer goods manufacturer that spent big bucks back in the day on print and retailer promos. not TV though. I don’t remember seeing a TV commercial for Corningware…maybe Corelle when it first came out?

    Don doesn’t have any contacts. He charms the fish others catch. Pehaps Betty could help him out with Henry’s political campaign contacts but I have a hard time imagining Henry doing anything for Don. Betty would be motivated by not wanting her ex-husband to be unemployed and stop paying child support. Is that enough motivation for Henry to overcome his dislike for Don?

    Roger COULD get lucky, but I think he will strike out (ha ha).

    Lane would have pulled in new accounts already if he had any buddies to tap.

    Bert — ditto what I said about Lane.

    Pete — he always seems to have something up his sleeve…but NAA was his biggest prospect, and that’s all over…

    And what about Faye…she has insider dirt about other clients and agencies…it would be career-limiting if she got caught, but she might have some ideas for accounts to poach.

  121. Oh yeah, Peggy. ??? She doesn’t know anyone either. Does Stan have any contacts from prior jobs?

    Joanie. Nope. No contacts. She’d have used them already if she had them.

    What IS the fascination with Sal. I don’t get it. Didn’t MW say he’s NOT COMING BACK?

    As for Stonewall riots, unless Sal is a lot more out, I don’t see him trolling Village gay bars until after he’s out and divorced. That happened later anyway.

  122. Sounds like some very convincing arguments made for Disney if not some hint at spoiler stuff.

    I’d be okay with Sal returning, but I’m certainly not fascinated by him. I was surprised MW wrote Cosgrove back into this year’s script.

    It appears my borough bombshell Faye’s days are numbered, but I hope MW allows her to leave with some dignity — a’la Rachel Menken — not any of this “gotcha!” she was crazy and unstable stuff i sometimes see proposed here. But I’ll also admit to liking MM went it veers most sharply from melodrama.

    And yeah, there are strong cases to be made for the end of Bert, Lane and the much-discussed Roger. The only sure bets seem to be Don, Pete, Peggy and Joan.

    In terms of a semblance of the firm moving to LA, this would basically mean the end of Betty, Henry and Sally, and I don’ t know if MW’s willing to let that story go.

  123. #119 (straight gangsta) less of me,

    Q: Mister Less Of Me, how does a Basketcase pose possible scenarios for the end (or middle) (or beginning of the end or middle) of SCDP on the Internets for three or four seasons, and live to tell about it?

    A: Day at a time I suppose?

    (R.I.P. Omar Little, and The Wire itself.)

  124. Sal and Kitty may live separate lives, but I doubt they’ll officially divorce. I knew a couple of gay Italian Catholic men of that generation, and it was just out of the question for them.

  125. Yay! The Wire. I didn’t want to watch it when I first heard about it because it sounded so depressing. But I read so much good stuff about it that I got the DVDs and couldn’t tear myself away from it. Lost a lot of sleep.

    It really is as good as Mad Men and The Sopranos folks, maybe better.

    PS The Guardian newspaper from England listed The Wire right behind Mad Men as the best American TV series EVER. I think Sopranos came in third.

  126. #129 – True dat AB, that’s the game out here yo, it’s rewrite or get rewrit.

  127. The only other shows people can talk about on this site are shows that figure in a MM episode — that is, stuff that was on the air from 1960-65, including reruns.

    The Wire and the Sopranos aren’t on that list.

  128. “I don’t know if that’s true . . .”

    But it is off-topic; my apologies for the diversion.

  129. Maybe NOBODY does, it’s splits up. The “kids” form their own agency. What happens with Don, Roger, et all…who knows. But taken from a online history of advertising:

    1966 Wells, Rich, Greene — and particularly its ambitious chairman, Mary Wells Lawrence — personified the glamour and excitement of advertising at the height of the 1960s “creative revolution.” Lawrence, Richard Rich and Stewart Greene opened the New York shop after leaving Jack Tinker & Partners.

    The agency drew attention with its work for Braniff and Philip Morris’ Benson & Hedges. Its Alka-Seltzer ads are part of advertising lore: “Plop plop, fizz fizz,” “Try it, you’ll like it” and “I can’t believe I ate the whole thing.”

    I could certainly see Peggy as Mary Wells Lawrence? Maybe Pete is Richard Rich?

  130. Some interesting ideas–so glad people are participating in this post, thanks again.

    I agree with Ann and the others who said visits to California would be fine, but they hope the characters stay New York-based. Anything can happen, but oddly I’d be disappointed if they ever leave New York on any permanent basis. Probably because I am a New Yorker (I’ve been living in NYC for the past few years), and even though I know that MM is mostly filmed in California, on sets, I love the idea of it taking place in NYC. And as someone said upthread, “Mad Men” (Mad as you know is short for Madison Avenue in NY, the heart of the advertising industry) sounds better than “Cal Men”! :)

  131. #135
    PETE AS RICHARD RICH-LOL

    As I recall Sir Thomas More told Richard Rich that it profits a man nothing to sell his soul for the whole world;but for Wales (Wells) ?

  132. They don’t have to move the whole agency to California. They can set up a small satellite office. (edited some of this. And I have warned everyone about spoilers.- MadChick)

    We had friends whose family owned a furniture store in the midwest who did things this way. They sent out a scouting party to Florida in the 60s, decided it had potential, set up a small operation there, and eventually the Florida operation became THE operation when the midwest went rustbelt.

  133. I think Roger might be a little low on funds. He mentioned they are renting in the Hamptons. (Horrors!)
    I keep thinking about Don getting life insurance for the firm, in the season premier. I know that wouldn’t apply if he killed himself. I just don’t know how it might possibly fit it.
    I really like the Disney idea. Honda is a possibility. I think Ken is going to come through in a big way. There’s a reason he’s back and we haven’t seen it yet, imo.

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