Last night’s episode blew me away, but it’s been pointed out by TLo that that scene with Roger and Joan enjoying their Waldorf time with the mink stole completely throws off the later glimpse of their affair in‘ Babylon’ in 1960, where we get the sense that they’ve only been seeing each other for a year. They are correct in pointing out this discrepancy, and I think I have an answer for it: Roger’s brain has been thoroughly pickled, and his memories, that he is desperately trying to pen for his book, have become as muddled as a kindergartner’s finger painting.
I do NOT think that Roger and Joan were having their affair in the 50′s, I think that Roger may have wanted to remember it that way, but for all we know, he may have been with Mona in that hotel room. He mentioned to Don, the furrier, that this was a ‘getting to know you’ gift, and if this was, say 1950, he could have been mixing up events in his mind. He was probably married to Mona already at this time, but I really don’t think he was with Joan yet. Roger had said in another early episode that he liked red heads with big bosoms, and this may have just been another red head he had slept with. In ‘The ‘Mountain King’ in 1962, Joan tells Greg that she’s been working at SC for 9 years, which means she started at SC in 1953. In the hotel scene, “Joan” is as giddy and squeaky as a Marilyn Monroe wannabe, and this could all be Roger’s imagination cranking things up. Her comment about ‘when she’s married’ could have been something Mona said to him when they were dating.
Of course, I may be completely wrong, and MW may be playing with us here, but i do I think Roger is falling apart mentally as well as physically and Don is following in his footsteps. It is a sad thing to witness.
150 Responses to “Roger and Joan in the Early 50′s? I think not.”
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Joan was naive and enthusiastic in that mink scene. She may have believed they’d wind up together.
I’m sure they broke up – Joan toughened up – and perhaps later (season 1?) she hooked up with him again against her better judgment.
In the season 1 scenes with Roger she is not hopeful, naive or enthusiastic – but instead treats him as a little boy and she has no illusions that their relationship is nothing more than an affair.
So it was all a dream, like in Dynasty?
Nope, too much a stupid soap opera trick to be the case for Mad Men.
The “Anything Can Happen, Anything, Impossible or Not — Anything At All!” school of writing is usually tolerated only in soap opera or bad fantasy.
If there’s one thing Mad Men is not, is badly written: it’s silly and annoying to assume the least likely explanation, based on nothing, for a plot point there.
Think Occam’s Razor:
“Occam’s razor (or Ockham’s razor[1]) is the principle that “entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity” (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem). The popular interpretation of this principle is that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Simplest is not defined by the time or number of words it takes to express the theory; “[simplest] is really referring to the theory with the fewest new assumptions.” [2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
A sober Don Draper would NEVER start throwing out slogan after slogan when the client isn't sold on his initial campaign. The Life scenes, and his blackout weekend, including forgetting the kids, has to be a new low.
# 77 – wasn't the furrier Greek?
#90 Lady K – Thanks for that info, I had completely forgotten it. I think JackieD referred to it as a flashback, I would think it would be more a kind of hallucination. Or maybe it's a semantical difference.
#71 – Dark Peggy I'm pretty sure Pete said disparagingly,"Lane AND Madame Defarge". He had to be referring to Lane and Joan. Remember Joan told him after the incident with Ken at the bar before the awards ceremony, to "ask Lane". He could infer from that that Joan knew and was probably a part of the maneuvers to merge with Geyer. Madame Defarge was a scheming villain in Dickens's "A Tale of Two Cities".
#104 – Teddy the Greek was another employee at Heller's, and not the owner.
Random thoughts:
I never realized it was Kinsey who posted Joan's driver's license on the bulletin board in the break room. Can someone tell me how we know he did it?
Is there a time line of events posted somewhere, on this blog or another one?
In season 1 when it's first revealed Roger & Joan are having an affair, I got the idea it'd been going on a year, not years, because of his famous line "This has been the best year of my life." Later in season 1, when Joan was referencing "The Apartment," I got the idea she'd been hoping for something more from him but was realizing he'd never leave Mona for her. So I think she could have seen the affair as more than just fun (as I believe Shirley MacLaine felt about Fred MacMurray). But, on the other hand, maybe seeing that movie simply made Joan feel like an office plaything
& she was fed up.
It's hard for me to think that Don & Midge, in season 1, had been together for 5 years. She phoned him at the office for the first time for a booty call. He made her feel bad about that. If they'd been together for years, wouldn't she have done this earlier? I know she'd just gotten a phone, but still…
All of this discussion, especially the speculation about Roger possibly being addled or his brain pickled because of all the booze makes me wish even more for some flashback about the beginning months of the new firm. There's such a disparitiy to me as to how upbeat and rejuvinated they were at the end of last season and now, with Roger seeming very spent and Don almost as bad as Freddy. I'd like to see a bit of what happened during the start-up months.
@ Goldgirl # 108
Is the emcee at the CLEO awards Jennifer Aniston's father?
Yes, that's John Aniston (Victor Kiriakis to all of us former Days Of Our Lives watchers.)
#111 Kassy – " Oh, I don’t know maybe Matt just forgot about 'roaming the hillsides' and goofed."
Hah! Unless shown otherwise in future episodes, that's what's likely in my mind.
#102 Therese
I think Don never hit on Joan because he knew she was Roger's mistress – whether or not is was on and off – she would be off limits. Why does everyone assume that Joan would automatically be attracted to or unable to resist a married Don?
I think it more likely that she was husband hunting but Roger seduced her and if the timing had been different, perhaps he would have left Mona for her. But the timing wasn't right. Margaret was too young. I felt Roger chose Jane when he was ready to leave Mona, as Joan was already engaged to Dr. Greg.
Also, I often read comments where people think Joan's rape by Greg happened in Don's office. I thought it was in Roger's, after he purposely let Greg know that he had been intimate with Joan – "I thought you didn't like French food?" Greg was reacting directly to that. He was already threatened by her obvious sexual experience and was punishing her and "showing Roger" subconsciously.
I did notice Don going in for the full mouth kiss with Joan, when he won his Cleo. Joan is clearly the nurturing type – still propping up Roger, calming him down about the Honda deal. It would be even more jealousy provoking for Roger if Don manages to seduce Joan. I don't think she's interested, but she might be his next Anna. Time will tell what MW has up his sleeve for them all.
Josie, I know who Madam DeFarge is and I have read Tale of Two Cities( a little irked you assumed I needed that explained to me) perhaps I misheard, I thought he said "you, Madame DeFarge," as a double (sexist) insult b/c Lanye is plotting behind his back and he is behaving like a female. Perhaps he was referring to Joan, but that either makes no sense or shows how irrational he is behaving b/c Joan, despite having an inkling of what is going on, is not a scheming villainess and unlike Madame DeFarge is not the agent of webs of intrigue.
I agree with Kassy #111, that Roger was Joan's male friend-with-benefits in between the "marriage material" guys. I vote for on-again/off-again. At one point (For Those Who Think Young?), Joan tells Roger explicitly that she has always been faithful to whomever she was with at the time.
And I believe her. If she was really hunting so intently for marriage, she would be smart to actually be faithful to that boyfriend and carry that fidelity into the marriage. My point is, while we know that Joan has clearly had several sexual partners, she never strikes me as the type to sneak around and lie. The same way that Season 1 Joan knows that Roger won't leave Mona for her. She'll have a fling with someone, but won't try to destroy a marriage (as someone mentioned above).
decogirl, I was recalling how in the one episode in season 1, Joan casually mentions to Peggy that Don never went after her. The full mouth kiss, though brief, was surprising!
One possibility: in season 1, Joan wondered aloud to Peggy why Don never seemed to go for her (I think it was just after Peggy spilled the beans about overhearing the phone call with Midge.) Then she said something like–"he's so handsome, he doesn't need to date around the office."
If Roger bought Joan that mink, it isn't crazy to think Don may have seen Joan wearing the mink–and put 2 and 2 together. Don was not a partner and Roger Sterling was. If Don was ambitious, it wouldn't have been smart at all to mess with "Roger's girl."
Don seems to have dropped most of his dating rules right now.
Don is a partner, and Roger can't fire him at the drop of a hat. Don has been valuable to the company (hence the award.)
I thought it was intentional the way the camera zoomed up under the table at the awards ceremony to show Roger holding Joan's hand. Then as they geared up for the announcement, they showed Don taking Joan's other hand and holding it, too.
Then when Don won, he kissed Joan on the lips. I haven't seen that before.
Nothing may ever come of it, but the directors seemed to be teasing us a little.
Even if there were never a full fledged romance, if Roger SUSPECTED there was something going on that could cause a lot of Don/Roger tension.
Don and Roger have patched up their relationship several times –but they have certainly had their issues over the years.
Maybe one point of this episode is that everyone is starting to relax a little too much. Everyone had to be on their absolute best behavior for months and months when SCDP was new. Maybe they are starting to think they have past the worst part now, and they are starting to relax and get a little bit SLOPPY. Old rivalries and new rivalries are strarting to escalate now that they are not terrified of falling flat on their faces every day.
Maybe 5 partners with very different personalities is too many partners. Personalities are starting to grate.
#115 Dark Peggy – I'm so sorry I misunderstood your comment. I had just come back from the AMC talk forum where many commenters didn't know who Madame Defarge was. I should know better that people here would be more sophisticated.
But I still say that Pete was pissed at Joan for knowing about this plan before he did and maybe extrapolated from that that she was a plotter alone side Lane.
I am telling you, Betty is turned on by self-made men. She finds the kinds of guys she went to school with BORING. I'll bet anything Henry Francis did not go to boarding or prep school, that he did something like get into Yale on scholarship. I definitely hear a bit of working-class accent in him, like I heard it in Gene (who almost certainly, wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth either).
So yes, he was probably already married to Betty, and had a kid, and realized that he was in a dead-end job and that if he wanted to move up, own a real house, etc., he had to move on.
When Don kissed Joan I thought Joan reacted in a very funny sexy Joan way. It's just my feminine intuition talking but I really thought Joan was like "all-fucking-right. hot, yes" but that Don wouldn't intend it that way. It was pretty freaky. I guess I always figured Joan is really good about using her immense sexual powers responsibly and anything with Don would be great in a parallel universe but not in this one. Joan is so cool.
Yeah, the "best year" thing definitely doesn't sound like something that started seven or eight years eariler. We're talking guys here, people, or in this case one guy, Roger Sterling. For all of Joanie's va-va-voom charms, I don't see a guy like Sterling ever being smitten that long while still with the woman.
Anyway, unless it's further elaborated/explained in coming weeks, I don't see why it had to be Joan in the hotel room except to make the narrative paralllels tidy, and in that case I don't think it was worth it. Could've been an assumed anniversary or b-day or Xmas present for Mona and left it at that.
But hey, give'em a jarring mulligan — though I won't be above occasionally poking fun of that flub for a show that is often so hyper-carefully written.
Moving on, the most interesting development might be the young turks (Pete, Peggy, Crane, Cosgrove, etc) vs. the old guard (Roger and Don) showdown that seems to be developing inside SCDP. I like it. But I also think Roger will pull off something big (before season's end) to show his worth beyond keeping Lee Garner happy. I sense Sterling could still be the best account guy in the place; he just wants to sit in his new office and talk about ice cream. Or otherwise have a drink and crack wise.
I think you're right to note that the flashback is not at all about what really happened, and entirely about Roger's nostalgia.
. The ad in the fur shop had Betty in it as the model, and they married in 1953.
Great catch!!
Isn’t that Betty in the ad at the fur store? Don said it was his idea.
Is the emcee at the CLEO awards Jennifer Aniston’s father?
Wanted to add that I just LOVED that flash of Drunk Duck at the CLIOs. I so wished Peggy had been there to see it.
A Greek furrier? Furriers are Russian. Their tailors are Greek.(Forgive the generalization, I started in retail.)
I’m thinking that Roger and Joan were on/off way back to whenever the mink coat incident occurred. She probably let him entertain her while she was in between boyfriends. Then when we get to Season one and the best year that Roger refers to, I thought maybe things were really bad with Mona that year and he was needy so Joan might have let him become her exclusive male friend because maybe she thought he would actually leave Mona for her. When he didn’t that made it all the harder for her when he chose Jane. Oh, I don’t know maybe Matt just forgot about roaming the hillsides and goofed.
I think the problem I have with Roger and Joan in 1955 is it would mean one of two things: 1) she slept with Kinsey after she'd been with Roger or 2) that Kinsey had been at the agency at least as long as Don. As to the first point, Kinsey is a downgrade from Roger, and Joan doesn't strike me as the type who would opt for the junior copy writer after having shagged the head of the agency — even if she did it out of spite, revenge or as a result of some drunken stupor. I mean, I could see her boffing some smokin' hot, sweaty dude who worked in the print shop just to get under Roger's skin, but Paul? And then to have him blab about it at work? Would Paul even have a job after that? At Roger Sterling's company? Hell to the no! However, if Joan was merely testing the waters of the office romance pool, I could see her starting with someone like Paul, and then moving on to bigger and better things as a result of that tryst.
So the other option is that Paul had been working at S/C for at least as long as Don. This also strikes me as false because Paul was considered one of the younger members of S/C. In one episode wasn't Don specifically talking about Paul when he was told to hire younger writers and Don's response was "you want them younger than that?" Additionally, if Don and Paul started at the same time (especially with Don's weak credentials) I'd expect to see more resentment on the part of the underlings, as well as more jostling for power. As it was, there was some deference (even if it was just a teeny, tiny bit) from the younger guys toward Freddie, Salvatore and Don who seemed more established at the company.
I mentioned this elsewhere but I watched the fur store flashback in slo-mo and (1) no wedding ring on Don's finger and (2) yes, that is Betty in the poster (I'm 80% sure).
I was surprised by the kiss Don gave Joan as well. It wasn't just the kiss but he took her by the waist which is fairly intimate rather then just a quick peck. I loved that Joan held Roger's hand AND Don's hand.
126: I am not as sure as you are about Joan high standards for men. Remember the two gross guys she and her friend picked up the night Roger was having a coronary with the aluminum twin? They did not seem to be exclusive.
BTW, in Babylon, Roger mentions a pearl necklace that he had given her. We now learned that he had given her a mink stole. Gift giving seemed an essential part of their relationship, to be polite. In that context, that of a relationship that was not the big romantic thing that some viewers keep dreaming about, it would make sense that Joan was sort of a regular but not necessarily frequent lover for Roger, and could be for a number of years. Same type of relationship that Don had with Midge, in which he decided if and when to see her, and she would be scolded if she dared take the initiative. And with Midge too, the relationship was not exclusive.
Those goobers that Joan picked up in "Long Weekend" were a special circumstance. It was mostly to communicate something to Carol, and at that moment for Joan, any man would do. Besides, as was noted in the episode, most of the really hot guys had already left town because it was Labor Day Weekend.
As to the pearl necklace, Roger actually gave that to her in the Babylon episode — the first time they were at the hotel together. He also gave her the love birds (what ever became of those, I wonder).
Wow I’m confused and dubious about the timeline now.
One thing I have no problem believing is that Betty would marry Don even if he was nothing special. I always remember how she was set up to be painfully, physically in love with him to the point that she was spacing out while he was work waiting for him to come home. I don’t think Betty was above falling in love with someone who was “just” a salesman. I have never been sure she was a gold digger or anything like that, I think that was her guy and she figured it out from being around him as a person.
I’m really bothered by the “best year” thing though. I really don’t get it and hope it will be explained next week. I was just talking last week about how much faith I have in this show and if this can’t be made clear within the narrative I am going to be really disappointed.
I have always had the impression that Roger and Joan were lovers for many years, going back into the fifties. I am astonished that anyone would doubt it.
Joan was never exclusive with Roger. Joan used to go out and pick up men all the time. She dated Paul the copywriter, or at least had an affair with him. She was a sexy, sexual young woman.
She and Roger almost seemed married, in a weird way, but they both had lots of other sexual affairs. This was always the sense I had.
Roger did not leave Mona for Joan. That was his big mistake, if you ask me. Joan found the doctor and stopped dating around and then jane came along and scooped Roger up.
It is the tragedy of Roger's life that he didn't leave Mona for Jane. And I think it is a tragedy that Joan is not married to Roger. They would have been really great for one another.
re: Bling. . I agree with what you say, mostly, . . . but Joan and her roommate picked up those older gross guys because Joan can be passive aggressive. Joan was punishing the roommate for her lesbian come on to Joan. Remember? The roommate told Joan to think of her as a man and Joan said 'you poor thing, you are tired and need to have fun" and then Joan practically forced the roomie to have sex with the gross guy from the bar, like punishment for the lesbian come on.
I love Joan, don't get me wrong, but Joan has her flaws and vanities.
And Joan made a big mistake with her doctor husband, didn't she? I bet she chose that husband for the boost of being married to a doctor and that was all she saw when she chose her awful mate. But Joan made her choice. I am sure she could have attracted lots of other men, such as rich business men, even if Roger was still committed to Mona . . . Joan made her bed with the creepy doctor.
Joan can be awful but sometimes she is very catty. I love her character as a charcter but in real life, she'd be hard to take.
Don had his job at STErlng Cooper before he married Betty but he knew betty before STerling Cooper. in fact, I bet part of the reason he moved so hard on Roger to get the SC job was to impress the beautiful BEtty.
I know Betty knew Don has no family — he had no one at the wedding — but she said she thought he was angry with his father.
I agree that Betty's father sounded like he had working class origins.
I disagree that Henry seems working class. Henry seems upper middle class.
Betty wasn't a total snob when she married Don but she did not marry him right away. I bet we see that part of his motivation to score the job at SC was to impress the lovely Betty.
Folks, Don was drunk when he kissed Joan. That's why he kissed her. And he was excited about winning because he was drunk. It's not that hard to explain Don's strange behavior. He was in the early hours of a bender.
Sallie Draper was born in 1953. . . so when did Don go to work at SC? Betty had already met him, modeled in the fur ad. Were Betty and Don married when Don got his first job at SC?!! Yikes, that would be something. It doesn't quite fit what I thought about the Betty Don courtship. . . . hmmm.
re #107: "I never realized it was Kinsey who posted Joan’s driver’s license on the bulletin board in the break room. Can someone tell me how we know he did it?"
Paul took Joan's purse from her locker (which curiously was not locked up) and used the new Xerox machine to make the copy of the license. Earlier during the party scene, Paul's girlfriend had paid Joan a compliment on it (despite Joan's subtle insults to her), so that we'd know that particular red purse was Joan's. We only see a man's arm pull the purse out of the locker, but under the circumstances you know only Paul would be motivated to pull something like that on Joan.
re # 114: "Also, I often read comments where people think Joan’s rape by Greg happened in Don’s office. I thought it was in Roger’s, after he purposely let Greg know that he had been intimate with Joan – “I thought you didn’t like French food?” Greg was reacting directly to that. He was already threatened by her obvious sexual experience and was punishing her and “showing Roger” subconsciously."
Nah, I'm pretty sure it was Don's office. It was one of those periods when Don was between secretaries so Joan was covering Don's desk. They'd walked by Roger's office earlier so Joan could show off her beau to Roger, and then went back to Don's desk so Joan could get her things. But Dr. McRapey insisted on having a drink first (not to mention other things), so they went into Don's office.
Joan stressed to Roger that she wanted to keep her relationship with him casual. She didn't want to be his full-time mistress. She wanted to be able to leave whenever Astronaut Mike Dexter came along. Roger had no reason to leave Mona for Joan, because he had no reason to believe she'd take him if he did.
Tizzielish, Sally had her 6th birthday party in early May 1960 (Marriage of Figaro), so was born in 1954. But May 1953 was when Don and Betty got married (The Gypsy and the Hobo).
About the timeline: In the flashback, Joan says something about seeing Roger with the package in the office, so she was already working at SC. At her retirement party, held on July 4, 1963, Guy said that she had been working for SC for almost 10 years. If (as likely) Roger put the moves on her as soon as he noticed this new secretary (and we know that the SC guys went to size up the "new girl" – I suspect that Joan had made an impression), that means that Roger went to buy the mink sometime around mid 1953. Don met Betty in the later months of 1952, divorced Anna in Feb. 14, 1953, married Betty in May 1953., and Sally was born in May 1954. It seems pretty certain that Betty married Don when he was still working in the fur company. Remember the young air conditioning guy: she told him that her husband was a "salesman". I remember that at the time it seemed odd to me that she did not say: an advertiser.
Betty married "below her station", over the objections of her beloved father. As someone noted, she was still very much in love with Don in the early episodes of S1.
#135 and 138 – Joan wanted Mike Dexter but ended up Dr. Drew Baird!
Regarding the questions about Betty and Bryn Mawr…for some reason, it seems to be a weak point both chronology and anachronism-wise for Weiner. In the first season, Betty talks about her sorority, but Bryn Mawr doesn't have – and never has had – sororities. Maggie Siff (who played Rachel Menken) is a Bryn Mawr alum and actually called Weiner out on this when she saw the scene.
In short, I wouldn't try to make sense of Betty's college experience, timeline-wise.
I'll also add my voice to the chorus – I don't think the flashbacks are Don- or Roger-specific; they're showing us what happened, from a relatively neutral perspective. That said, I do think something bad is coming for Roger, physically and mentally. I predict another heart attack, likely fatal.
Also – I'm pretty sue Betty and Don were not quite married yet when he started at SCDP, but that he proposed soon after. That would jibe with his visit to Anna to get the divorce.
Ooooh, can anyone grab a screen shot of the divorce certificate? Does it have a date on it?
"I think all those things Joan said about Roger “you like the chase” and “I just want to have fun” –all of those things protected Joan’s pride and they gave Roger the chance to FIGHT FOR HER AND EARN HER if he really wanted to. But he never did.
He took her words at face value"
I can see that. It's kind of the same thing that happened with Don's "read-between-the-lines" apology attempt to Allison the morning after. It's the classic, "Why can't you hear what I'm not saying" that comes between so may couples.
And I absolutely agree that however it started, they both ended up caring a lot.
#142 – Here it is from the season 3 scrapbook on AMC's site
http://media.amctv.com/img/originals/madmen/photo…
It's dated Valentine's Day, 1953 and the Drapers married 3 months later in May.
Aha! So, then, my guess is (based on the prevalence of overcoats) that the flashbacks were set in late fall 1952, and Don proposed that winter.
Whatever their intentions when they first started being romantic, I got the impression that both Joan and Roger developed feelings that surprised them in their strength. This is not an uncommon story. Two people are “just having a good time” until one or the otherof them suddenly realizes they care. They care SO MUCH IT HURTS.
Then that person is trapped, because the understanding of the whole relationship was “we’re just having a good time.”
So you either HIDE the feelings and send lots of feelers or hints –or you make an embarrassing confession like Carol did to Joan.
(Similar situation between Don and Midge. The rule was “it isn’t serious”–so eventually Don got hurt because someone else came along who was willing to take Midge more seriously.)
If you look between the lines in season 1, Joan was really throwing out a lot of tests and feelers towards Roger (without being direct or putting him on the spot.)
Joan knew what was “expected of her” as a secretary. She knew the fastest way to scare away a man like Roger would be to get emotional and ask for more. When she was young, had other options, and didn’t really care about Roger, she could play that part and enjoy it for what it was. He was handsome, rich, charming, and fun–and neither one of them expected more than a good time.
But it eventually dawned on Joan that she had started caring too much for that. Her inability to visit him openly in the hospital, and their tears when she first saw him and was applying makeup.
And we as the audience know that Roger was in a state of undress with one of the twins when the whole heart attack happened (because Joan rejected him and went out with Carol to find men?)
By 1960s standards Joan was getting pretty old to be finding a husband. It seemed like she did run the risk of being a party girl who was passed from man to man and discarded indifferently (like the girl in “The Apartment”?)
I think she had to “get over Roger” and move on to find a real relationship–unless she wanted to be the secretary who has to wait and wait in silence while Mona tends to Roger in the hospital. And if she remained single, what would happen in 5 or 10 years when she got “too old” to find somebody else? And Roger gave her up for all the new, younger girls? And what if she really does want to be a mother, too?
I think that Joan didn’t want to have a husband that ran around on her like Roger ran around on Mona. Furthermore, even if she could have been convinced to risk a marriage with Roger, Roger was not giving any hint that he would ever leave Mona and marry her.
I think all those things Joan said about Roger “you like the chase” and “I just want to have fun” –all of those things protected Joan’s pride and they gave Roger the chance to FIGHT FOR HER AND EARN HER if he really wanted to. But he never did.
He took her words at face value, and he liked her because she wasn’t asking for anything. (The way Don liked Midge or Anna when they didn’t ask for anything.) If she had started asking for things, he wouldn’t have liked her as much. By saying those things to Roger, she was giving him an opportunity to “deny it” and prove his love for her if he wanted to. He didn’t want to.
Joan was able to give without asking for much (affection or commitment) in return, because she had an outside life that was satisfying to her. But her position was no longer becoming sustainable as her relationship with Carol tanked, she was getting old by 1960 standards, and she eventually realized she didn’t want the main relationship in her life to be a relationship where she wasn’t allowed to visit him in the hospital.
A doctor impressed her. He actually wanted to marry her. Unfortunately, I think she could have done better than Greg in a lot of other ways.
So of course, it was terrible for Joan when Roger chucked Mona for Jane.
# 141:
I know that this is heresy, but isn't it possible that Betty lied about Bryn Mawr? Nearly every character on the show is a liar of one kind or another. Maybe Betty only attended for a semester, or two, before running off to become a model. Is that really an area into which Don (of all people) would probe further?
#135 – Astronaut Mike Dexter! LOL
#134, Signed D.C. Wow.Thanks I sure did miss this one. The arm going into a locker and gettting out Joan’s purse. I’ll have to watch this again.
Another question, for anyone: In “The Wheel,” when we see the slide of Don and Betty dressed up (not their wedding picture, where he’s got her in his arms), where is that supposed to be and what is the gold thing in his hair?
Thanks.
Middle, that’s a New year’s Eve picture of Don and Betty — there’s confetti on his shoulder and the 1956 crown on his head, and it’s December 31, 1955
http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/2008/04/don-drapers-kodak-presentation.php
[...] Lipp Sisters, who are normally the Internet arbiter of all things Mad Men, have come up with the lame story that Roger was in the hotel room with Mona, and that it’s just his drunken imagination [...]