I couldn’t help but notice a wonderful, but very brief throwback to S1 for our Joanie in “The Rejected”. Wonder if you saw it too? As you may recall, in “Babylon” in S1, Joan sashayed and proudly aimed her incredible red-clad backside directly at the two way glass, knowing that Roger would be watching the lipstick test. She then turned and glanced a ‘who me?’ look at the the horn-dogs she knew were probably howling by then. (As you recall, Ken stood up to salute her). Joan has always known the power of her sensuality and knew that this would remind Roger that she was quite desirable (to other men) and not to be ignored. Joan was playful as she vamped the guys here, but she knew it would get Rogers attention.
In a similar vein, but in a much different mood, Joan made a similar, if less flirtatious, motion in The Rejected. She’s in a bad mood when she realized that she isn’t to be a part of Dr. Miller’s focus group. It’s bad enough that she has to abandon her office so Don and Co. can watch the group, she’s also no longer the queen bee here, and has been demoted to an ‘old, married lady.’ In one astonishing miss-it-if-you-blink moment, Joan reminds them of her former glory. She doesn’t gently open the drapes to the test room one by one, but thrusts the curtains open from the dead center, and for a moment, she’s like Gypsy Rose Lee ready to take the catwalk.
Joan will not be ignored. Go Joan!
44 Responses to “Joan Will Not Be Rejected”
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It seems like there have been a TON of Season 1 callbacks so far. Maybe they are there to emphasize how much Don has lost over the run of the show starting his brother.
"The Rejected" will be counted among the great ones. Maybe the best that didn't end a season or center on a major historical event.
Here's to the writers and John Slattery! I wonder if his smug grin (sitting there as Draper meets the 'girl' who will take Allison's place) is part acting in the scene and part recognition of his directing tour de force.
@1 Dean-While Don has lost a great deal, think of all that Peggy has gained.
Brava – Joan and Therese!
I didn't think so much minded being excluded from the focus group as she did being included in the "old married lady" nomenclature. Clearly, Joan has more stature than her underlings, so it would not be appropriate for her to take part.
I agree, this will be an episode we revisit. "He's renting it" joins the Peggy pantheon with "I had your baby and I gave it away" and "I'm Peggy Olson and I want to smoke some marijuana."
With the character of Joan, there is always a risk that she will be reduced to a stereotype. I think that Joan has at least one "backside" focused scene each season. Last season, Joan sauntered out of the room after breaking a vase over her husband's head. The previous season (S2), I recall a scene in Roger's office in which he comments on Joan's bottom as she leaves the room. Despite the similar focus in all of these scenes, each conveys something different about Joan. In S1, she was using her considerable charms to make Roger jealous. In S2, she was rejecting Roger. In S3, she let her husband know that he was the lucky one and that she knew she deserved better. Now, in S4, she shows vulnerability and even some self-doubt through her reaction to being excluded from the focus group. Each scene shows a different facet of Joan and actually prevents her from becoming a stereotype by calling attention to Joan's physical attributes.
@#4: I agree that Joan was reacting to the reason for her exclusion from the focus group (being "old and married") rather than the fact that she was excluded.
#3:
True. Peggy has made a really remarkable progression.
My favorite moment in the episode (Okay, it was like five or six down the list, but still…) was Joan's reaction to the initial "Old Married Ladies" comment. It was the slightest twitch of annoyance followed by a small angry sigh. Unless you were watching for it you wouldn't notice the flash of the eyes. Caroline had no idea how close she just came to getting slapped.
Sorry, never been a Joan fan.
Women like that who swish their butt around, consciously trying to get a rise out of guys, made it worse for women who were trying to lead an authentic life. Her life was built on artifice that was informed by a sexist society.
Men loved women like Joan because it legitimized their making all women sex
objects.
Plus, Joan was a racist, remember how she treated Sheila in season one? And she's just mean to the secretaries.
Many women I knew who were as overt as Joan about using their body in a very sexualized way to attract men, had been abused as children. We may learn that this has happened to Joanie. Will we still laugh at Roger's jokes about her then?
You know, I kept thinking that the secretaries, in their initial positions ranged standing alongside the conference table, each one with a hand on the back of her chair, looked like nothing so much as a line of chorus girls.
"Women like that who swish their butt around, consciously trying to get a rise out of guys, made it worse for women who were trying to lead an authentic life."
And they're still doing it. Whatever I think of Joan as a character, I absolutely hate when anyone hails her as some kind of workplace role model for young, modern girls.
I just want to shake them and say (to paraphrase Dr. King), didn't we struggle for so long so that young girls could be judged on the content of their work, and not the color of their underwear?
That was why I absolutely loved it when Lane finally called her out on it, and it chafed me when he apologized.
I should have added – trying to get a rise out of guys on one's own personal time rather than at work? Perfectly fine, in fact quite fun, and handy for propagating the species.
There is nothing unauthentic about that first photo of Joan.
@#9Josie I understand your point about Joan, but respectfully disagree. I think Joan is doing her damnedest to "lead an authentic life" but is so far disappointed.I used to work for a woman who I imagine was a kind of a Peggy/Joan hybrid , if you can imagine, in the mid 60's business world using her considerable brains and beauty to her advantage. Married a couple of guys who she felt let her down in some way (both older and alcoholic) and by the time I worked for her was a very bitter character indeed. Sometimes after a cocktail or three she would lay the mallet down and be very funny and sharp and kinda likable. Especially after making someone cry, that always seemed to put her in a merry mood. Some of her bitterness seemed to stem from the loss of her beauty and sex appeal, though these were evident to everyone else. She considered herself a feminist and a trailblazer, and she's probably right, but I wouldn"t spend an hour in her scary shoes. I wisely feared her, but always felt kind of bad for her because somewhere in there is a nice person who became perverse. And not in the fun way. This is where I see Joan going, unfortunately.
Also, Joanie does'nt suffer fools gladly, and being wise to Paul and his tendency to be a poser, makes her assume Paul's girl (sheila?) is a twit for not seeing it, ergo her bitchiness toward her. That makes Joan a bit of a tat, not a racist.
Oops. I mean twat. need more coffee.
Moderating is not my favorite thing, but it's my shift, so let's be careful with the language.
That being said, there was a lot of discussion at the time about whether Joan was a racist in that exchange with Sheila. Both Matt Weiner and Christina Hendricks have offered varying accounts of her motivation in that scene. I think there's a good case to be made that Joan's dig was primarily (though not entirely) about her anger at Paul and exposing him as a poseur.
Well, there's racism and racism. I don't think Joan's ever burned a cross, but assuming that Blackness is all Sheila had to offer Paul is a form of casual racism in and of itself.
The t-word means different things in different nations.
@Karl: Sorry! I'm new to this and I'll do my best to keep my potty mouth in check.
#17 Melissa: You're most likely correct. I always tend to give a person the benefit of doubt that someone is not a racist, and am always shocked when it turns out that they actually are. Racists never think that they are racists, in my experience. That being said, we know Paul is a poseur, and at least part of his attraction for Sheila is that she is black (as well as pretty and truly nice ) and he might have felt that her very presence helped burnish his status as an intellectual hipster. Joan's nastiness toward her was a way of saying "silly girl. Don't you know you're being used?"
Joan is good at her job, she's good at any job she is given. She also has a great figure that she shows off in flattering choices, although not as much as before she was married. I understand why the latter could be seen as a problem, but that's not the whole of the character. (That's whole — with a "w.") Roger, personal attractions aside, didn't call her when they all decided to jump ship because he once roamed those hills, but because she rocks!
As often comes up elsewhere when the topic of Christina Hendricks comes up, there is not much she could do to disguise her shape, and not too many reasons why she should. The character has always acted professionally and never traded on her looks in lieu of not doing her job.
Joan made some remarks about Sheila that were rather snide, and wrong by modern standards, but she wasn't burning a cross on the woman's lawn. These are a part of who she is, and not meant to be forgotten, but also emblematic of the time and they don't stand alone. I remain unsure of how Joan really views minorities as the scenes were more about disdain for Paul being pretentious.
@CongratsitsaCrane I agree. Caroline almost got b-slapped for that crack. Also, she looked (to me) a lot older and less physically attractive than Joan so not only was she putting them down but given herself some serious pats on the back by acting like they were the same.
Joan is, if I'm estimating right, now right about Marilyn Monroe's age when she died. I would not be the first person so suggest that the reason she is legendary — Marilyn Monroe — is because she died young-ish and left a good looking corpse. We know Joan has an issue with aging by her reaction to the copies of her drivers license. Marriage meant to her a handsome doctor husband, house in the 'burbs, and beautiful babies and not what she's living. Caroline's comment stung because she is not getting the best of what marriage has to offer, but still has to carry around the title. And the clock is ticking.
There is a lot of territory to be covered in between "disguising" one's shape and putting it on exaggerated display.
Not when your body looks like that, because you end up looking fat or dowdy or simply less attractive than you are. She's beautiful and wears clothes that are professional, but shows she has a good shape. She doesn't wear anything low-cut or that isn't appropriate office wears. I don't think future seasons will find her in a mini-skirt. She also brings more to the table than her figure.
Joan shouldn't be asked to wear a potato sack or something similar, because there aren't many things that she could wear that would stop people from noticing her figure, any more than Peggy should dumb it down. They're both women with assets, and both of them are more than looks or brains.
Sure, there's another option. The one where she risks looking frumpy and overweight. She's not really bad, she's just drawn that way.
If a woman with small breasts and straighter lines would be applauded for dressing in clothes that flatter her figure, why shouldn't that be a good thing across the board? On the show we're coming into a time when thin w/no boobs becomes coveted — if a woman dressed to show off that, while still honoring the dress code, I doubt that would be a problem.
I dunno. If I was put together like that, it might be too much of an effort not to work that thang. Fortunately, I’m built like a laundry bag, so I’ll never be in that quandary.
If you put “wearing a potato sack” at one end of a spectrum, and “putting on a skirt so tight you can clearly see both cheeks, then deliberately bending over and wiggling your ass at the men on the other side of the two-way mirror” (see picture above) at the other end, I’d be surprised if there weren’t a very large number of options in the middle.
I find it sad that the only way to avoid being rejected is to use her body. Very sad.
"Sure, there’s another option. The one where she risks looking frumpy and overweight. "
I'm glad I live in a universe where frumpy vs. hoochie is a false dichotomy.
Do you really mean to say that anyone who doesn't wiggle her bum in a window, or pout and talk in a baby voice, or manage to drop the words "breast" and "thigh" into her vacation request is frumpy and overweight?
She was able to impress Lane Pryce with her vocabulary!
No, I mean to say that when women with that body type wears something than drapes rather than is more fitted or tailored that they look bigger than they really are. I can't recall Joan pouting, but maybe she has. The voice however belongs to the actress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2NulVxQr8A
Yes, Joan knows she looks good, but there's no shame in looking good — and excelling at her job. I don't get where she's a hoochie.
i am kind of a racist — i don't know anyone who is not kind of one. not one person. but joan is pretty good. she's more put off by the obvious showing off of the black girlfriend because her blackness is a badge of progressive values than anything having to do with her blackness outside of that context.
like most Joan's of that time, a black woman was not really on her radar as she pursued glamor, wealth, and privilege.
"the city means everything" or something close to that, she uttered once.
#34 ts, I totally disagree that everyone is racist in some way. My parents were absolutely color and ethnicity blind, to the point where I am absolutely clueless as to the derivation of names. They were progressives without the label.
But that subject is off the topic of Joan. I think she plays the cards that are dealt to her. She is a little too old and not educated enough to have become an executive herself, and she does not have children yet, so running the office giver her the power she wants. So does her body. It's an asset and she uses it.
"No, I mean to say that when women with that body type wears something than drapes rather than is more fitted or tailored that they look bigger than they really are."
I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise.
#34 ok…by the way, i have a bridge to sell you….
bottom line is i've always believed racism got a bad name — i've simply never met a person, black, white, or other, who didn't view the "other" through some lens in some way. it's not a tragedy, it's normal. if you want to call it prejudice, ok.
sorry, that previous remark is for brenda at #36…but all of this is a bit off topic. joan is an incredible character, with far more depth than dapper don, or precious peggy. this season she's been more background than foreground, but she wil bubble up again — the good ones always do.
Also, Joanie does’nt suffer fools gladly, and being wise to Paul and his tendency to be a poser, makes her assume Paul’s girl (sheila?) is a twit for not seeing it, ergo her bitchiness toward her. That makes Joan a bit of a tat, not a racist.
I think she is a racist. She is a casual bigot like most of the other characters on the show. There is nothing special about her in that regard. Just because Paul was a bit of a poseur did not mean that Joan had a right to make those comments to Sheila White. If Weiner is still trying to say that Joan is not a racist, then he had a piss poor way of conveying this message.
The civil rights movement started in the early 50′s and was at it’s height by the early 60′s, it would have been on everybody’s radar screen. It certainly was on mine at that time. I really hate it that people are making excuses for Joan’s humiliating treatment of Sheila.
To be sure there are few characters on MM who don’t appear to be overtly racist; maybe Don, Pete, and Peggy, but Joan is not one of them.
Sure, there’s another option. The one where she risks looking frumpy and overweight. She’s not really bad, she’s just drawn that way. If a woman with small breasts and straighter lines would be applauded for dressing in clothes that flatter her figure, why shouldn’t that be a good thing across the board? On the show we’re coming into a time when thin w/no boobs becomes coveted — if a woman dressed to show off that, while still honoring the dress code, I doubt that would be a problem.
I find it sexist and I find it sad that Joan constantly uses her body to attract attention or convey a message. I find it sad for any man or woman.
#40 Let me clarify one thing. Joan did not have the right to be soooo nasty to Sheila in any way, and never meant to imply that she did, no matter what her history with Paul is. I simply thought her motivation was coming from another source than straight up racism. Of course Joan might be a racist at her core, or maybe not, I have no idea. This illustrates the many shades of grey the characters on this show represent, and why I love it so. Frankly, I might have loved it a tad more had Sheila smooched a canape into Joan's hair, accidentally like.
@ts, I'm not 100% sure I agree with you about Joan, but you may be right but I agree with you 110% with your description of racism. I am African-American and I see racism within myself towards my own people and other people of colors despite being fairly liberal and having a very diverse group of friends and acquaintances and growing up around a variety of different people. I think that too many people equate being racist with burning a cross on a lawn or using derogatory terms and that is just not the heart of it. As for being color blind, I know lots of people who have wonderfully good intentions, who are delightful people and make great efforts to treat all people fairly, but I find it hard to believe that anyone, in a society that just overcame formal mandated segregation approximately 45 years ago and that fostered an economy that had a very large component based on slavery less than 150 years ago can not feel the impact of race and subconsciously pick up on the cues of such a society and have certain prejudices, however slight, against people of color and specifically black people. There are also a large number of academics and intellectuals who discuss the perniciousness of color-blindness in a society still filled with racial bias because it makes it easy to dismiss, ignore and belittle instances of actual discrimination and racism, even in the most 'liberal" or "progressive of institutions" An interesting essay on this was recently written by noted anti-racist Tim Wise http://www.timwise.org/2010/08/with-friends-like-…
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