Comments on: Sympathy and antipathy

By: Anne B

Anne B — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:40:25 +0000

Fans of Patricia Highsmith will love knowing that there's a new biography of her out this month. Even better: she was a pretty good liar, herself.

Read the review here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/books/review/Wi…

By: not_Bridget

not_Bridget — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:23:17 +0000

I don't see Peggy as "hall monitor" either. When Don wrecked his car, she lent him money to pay the fine & gave Bobbie a place to stay until the bruises healed. Because he had helped her when she was sunk in depression after the birth of her child. She had taken his advice to put it all behind her–long enough to get her out of the loony bin before they decided to try shock treatment. But she figured out, by herself, that she eventually had to process the event.

Peggy is hard to figure out. She didn't fit in back in Brooklyn. She wasn't just another one of the office girls–even before her promotion. Now she's continuing her (secretarial school) education, learning from Don, Bobbie, Joan & even Duck. Her flexibility helps her write good copy & her continuing evolution will be interesting.

Personally, I enjoy characters with depth; I don't have to "like" them. Alas, when the characters have problems that make them flat & dull (or are played by actors with limitations), I do find I can dislike them. I may pity them, but I keep watching for the next scene.

Of course, I'm an old Joss Whedon fan–the heck with "realism." I enjoyed watching an evil mayor who had sold his soul to dark forces so he could evolve into a giant snake demon. Because he was a fount of folksy wisdom, even as he plotted evil deeds…

By: Dark Peggy

Dark Peggy — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:40:53 +0000

@hudsunn 31, not to be overly pendantic, but Peggy does not have a college education; she went to secretarial school, which makes her rise even more amazing, particularly because there are secretaries in the office, like Joan and Jane, who have college degrees who did not get as far. Well, in Jane's case she got her M.R.S at the office so technically you can say she went further but not on her own two feet (more like on her back )

By: Hudsunn

Hudsunn — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:31:22 +0000

It is VERY easy for me to like, even admire, Don Draper, and I know that many men like his style, too. He is kinda like James Bond. He operates on a whole different plane and does things that ordinary men can't do. Joe Scarborough and the other men on morning Joe often talk about how Don is a heroic guy to them because he always knows how to get things done. For instance, he told his brother-in-law exactly how things were going to be after Gene started to deteriorate. He didn't ask, he told. He showed great authority and also caring toward Betty. He clearly took Gene into his home to make Betty happy and less worried. Men like that kind of decisiveness. So do a lot of women.

We all respond to beautiful people. There is just no doubt that pretty women and handsome men have many advantages in this world. Don is a good looking man who knows how to conduct himself in the boardroom or the bedroom. Yes, it is a cliche, but he also has that rough edge and maybe even that mean streak that makes him even more desirable.

Peggy often tries too hard and is far too "earnest" for those around her and for us as viewers. There is something a bit off-putting about her type. We see her as a hall monitor who enjoyed writing the names of kids who misbehaved on the chalk board when the teacher was out of the room.

While Don comes across as a winner in every situation, some of the guys appear to be losers in almost every situation. For some, like his brother Adam, there is simply too sincere and kind a heart to exist in the cutthroat world. He will be devoured by the pain of it. For others, like Paul, there is the feeling that beneath the office worker beats the heart of a slacker, who'd really rather be doing almost anything else and will never truly find his niche. Pete is kinda like Peggy, in that he often tries too hard and is too hopeful. Unlike Don, who makes it happen, Pete works hard and expects others to hand it to him because he is deserving. Don is irritated by his too-obvious attempts to get ahead.

By: Hudsunn

Hudsunn — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:16:43 +0000

I am sympathetic to people with whom I can identify in some way. I identify with Betty on a couple of levels. It cannot be easy being married to a man like Don Draper, a good-looking guy who is away from home a lot. Betty has high expectations for others, but I think she expects even more of herself, especially in the area of perfection and beauty. I felt very sorry for her when she was so happy about being back in modelling, only to find the rug pulled out from under her, and never really knowing the reason. She got the job because she was Don's wife and she lost it for the same reason. Although Betty is a 50s and 60s girl, I think she has a lot of the issues that women have today, including eating issues and determining what her role should be in a family and in the world at large.

I identify with Peggy because I know that it was not at all easy to try for a career in the 60s, even with a college diploma and a good attitude and work ethic. Although I have not had an abortion or given a child up for adoption, I can imagine how frightening it would have been in the early 60s to get pregnant outside of marriage. The stigma was so great, I think it would have been almost paralyzing. I knew of a couple of girls who suddenly left to go to a boarding school or tour Europe with a wealthy aunt. Everyone knew they were pregnant and would be back in nine or ten months. But most of us played along, and the adults did, too, because it was such a shameful thing. Few people would admit to an out-of-wedlock pregnancy in those days.

I certainly identify with Suzanne because I worked for a while as a teacher. In a way, I may judge her more harshly than I do Betty or Peggy for that very reason. She is too close for comfort. It was not easy being a single teacher in the 50s and 60s because the values were so different. Teachers were expected to be saints. Dating and sleeping with the dad of a student was considered very bad form then, not at all moral or professional.

By: daniella

daniella — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:43:25 +0000

For me itÂ´s Pete I feel the most for. He is like an open book for me, the viewer (I doubt everyone feel the same way) and two entire different characters when he is around other people and when he is alone. Like when he is practically melting down in the couch just losing it after being fired in "New Amsterdam". Or throwing the chicken out of the window, almost swelling with both anger and glee right afterward.
What I like with VincentÂ´s performance is that it is not a dead moment in that face. Whatever happens on the screen, or doesnÂ´t happen, if he is in the scene, even if he is not in center, he always does something I can watch.

Pete is a douche, off course, and a loser and for me, an underdog. He comes of money and a rich inheritance, but that doesnÂ´t change the fact that he doesnÂ´t have that much else going for him.

It like when CinderellaÂ´s ugly stepsister desperately cuts off her toe to try and fit into Cinderellas small shoe of glass. But shoes like that was never supposed to be for someone like her. And I knew what I was suppose to think. That I was suppose to cheer for the one with beauty and the perfect voice and the sweet personality. The one with all the good traits in the world. But somehow, I wished for something good for the ugly, jealous stepsister too. I guess because my foot wouldnÂ´t fit in that shoe either.

It is the same with Pete. I find him interesting and beautiful and warped.
And yes, despicable and horrible. But he can get away with it because I have also seen that there is more to him. For me, somehow, I feel the most for him when he deserves it the least. When IÂ´m not suppose to.

By: DRush76

DRush76 — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:38:20 +0000

Similarly, I think even when Don is a bastard, our hearts tend to stay with him because our POV is with him.

That has not happened with me since late Season 1. Ever since mid-to-late Season 2, my sympathies toward Don has slowly eroded with time.

The only reason I have been more defensive toward Betty in compare to the other characters, is due to the fact that she has been the only character over whom I have shed tears for. It happened near the end of "Shoot". And I believe that she has been unfairly criticized in compare to the other characters. Other than that, I don't really consider her better or worse than anyone else on that show. I don't have any real favorites.

By: scottnapa

scottnapa — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:42:32 +0000

Of course we are set up to like Don. Some of that is given to us in writers code–seeing him at a foreign film in S1, for example. But much of it is because he is smart, clever and right about most of his insights. He is the hero because he has risen from nothing. He has reinvented himself. Everyone character in the show is lost in some way. The ones that are more attractive to me are those who are aware of their condition. So I care little for Betty. I don't see her as insightful. Unhappy Yes. For the most part the women on the show are vastly more sympathetic than the men. The more sympathic men struggle to find themselves, Sal and Paul. Funny thing about Pete, he makes many bad choices but he is attracted to the right women, Trudy and to a lesser degree, Peggy.
It's surprising for me that I have such trouble with Betty
My favorite character btw, is Anna Draper.

By: Meowser

Meowser — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:43:57 +0000

Or, see Pete Campbell. Before New Amsterdam, we just saw some brownnosing toady who thought the whole world owed him. Now that we can see that he's the black sheep from a "prominent" family, and he has to make it in business because he's not going to get squat from them besides a name and an education, it's easier to understand him. (Not that a name and an education aren't privileges, mind you, they're just not everything.) Even in the Gudrun episode, which was Pete at his absolute nadir, he knows he's a big fuckup and that he needs help. And at that point in history, his wife (who didn't even know the extent of what he did, just that he'd cheated) couldn't just tell him to get his butt into therapy or she was done with him.

By: Meowser

Meowser — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:33:28 +0000

It's interesting. I'm finally watching the S2 DVD commentaries, and when Melinda McGraw was on, she mentioned being shocked that so many people disliked Bobbie, when Don did things every bit as bad as Bobbie and people gave him a pass for it.

I'm sure the double standard has something to do with this for some people, but for me, the difference is that I don't know anywhere near as much about Bobbie as I do about Don. Don acts like an asshole, but we can see exactly what's making him do it. With Bobbie, all I see is her acting like an asshole. Maybe if I knew that Bobbie's mother called her an ugly piece of shit and told her she'd never amount to anything, or that her first husband beat the crap out of her and wouldn't let her leave the house and she escaped with nothing but her life and the clothes on her back and her two kids, I could understand her behavior better. But Bobbie is a minor character and we're not going to get the Don treatment for every character.