…but didn’t.
Bob, who Roger called about Joan. I never really thought so, I just thought that was a way of showing that Roger really values Joan.
Suzanne, who so many of us thought would be back to boil Sally’s bunny.
Suzanne’s brother, who took Don’s money and business card.
Duck and Peggy–nothing bad came of that. Seems to be pretty good for Pegs.
Karen Ericksen, Peggy’s roommate–nothing bad came of that. Seems to be pretty good for Pegs 
Jai a Lai Guy.
Jeffrey, Paul’s drug dealing hot singing friend.
Olive–I think we thought more might evolve there.
What else had you thinking you were being set up, when you weren’t?
Happy Monday after Thanksgiving, folks. I hope it was a good one for those who celebrate.
67 Responses to “Things we thought might come back”
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I'll add another major example to this list…PETE & PEGGY'S BABY!!! Okay so I don't expect to see that baby again, but Peggy telling Pete about their kid was the climatic scene of S2 and then…nothing in S3? I was expecting some kind of fallout.
Personally, this is another reason (aside from too much Ossining) why S3 was the weakest season so far for me. Too many dropped plot threads, too many threads that seemed important but went nowhere. Miss Farrell was the worst. Awful character, the affair was all so boring and it had no payoff that made the boredom worthwhile. Her brother was just a device to make Don feel guilty about Adam. The worthlessness was annoying but I'll admit I'd rather never see the Farrell siblings again than have their story given a purpose in S4.
I would've liked to see more of Olive, Karen and Duck but Peggy's personal story got no attention in the second half of the season. I assume the Duck story will continue in S4, but it's frustrating that I still have no clear idea how Peggy feels about Duck or what the status of that relationship is.
I agree that Miss Farrell without a payoff is deeply senseless. I disagree entirely about Pete & Peggy's baby; that was obviously the denouement of that plotline.
I'll add Shelly, who pointedly announces she's based in New York, and then never reappears. Why announce?
Are you specifically saying you expected a payoff in season 3, or are those all storylines you don't expect to see again in season 4 (hence the lack of payoff in season 3 is a lack of payoff period) ?
Because I expect to see Suzanne (if only the break-up) and maybe a few of those others in Season 4. I'm pretty certain we'll see Duck, if only because he's always skulking about even when he's got no apparent reason to.
As for examples, for me it's maybe Paul Kinsey. His relationship with Peggy and apparently his self-image was rocked with the whole "lost idea" episode and I wanted to see which way he'd go from there, but if we don't see the Sterling Cooper guys again (didn't Matt say in some interviews he was undecided ?) then that will never happen.
I was hoping we'd see the return of Freddy at some point. Same for Father Gill.
Also, I'm thinking that we haven't seen the last of Duck – though I hope that the hook-ups with Peggy are over!
I think I've said this elsewhere, but I think SCDP being set up in the Pierre is so there can be some sort of run in with Duck, as that's where he had been having meetings when he and Peggy had their first 'go around'. I think maybe Don or someone else will run in to one of Grey's clients and end up stealing them, or Peggy will get caught with Duck, possibly by Pete, who will be disgusted.
Also, saying 'Jai a Lai Guy' is just plain fun.
#1 falafel –
Maybe we don't know how Peggy feels about Duck, or what the status of their relationship is, because Peggy doesn't. Aside from liking the sex, she doesn't seem to be sure of how she feels about the relationship. We got to see little glimpses of her uneasiness (when her roommate asks her why she's with him if he's not married, when she realizes he turned off news about the president being shot for their 'nooner'), but that's just what they are, glimpses, for her as well. I think she's just ambivalent about it at this point, so since we're experiencing it through her, we're ambivalent as well.
Um, SAL???
I'm torn on the Farrell thing. On the one hand, it would be nice to have some payoff, if only to make me feel like there was some point to suffering through the whole affair episode after episode after episode in S3.
On the other hand, the chemistry between Don & Suzanne did nothing for me, so I'd hate to suck up screen time with her again in S4.
Maybe there could be some sort of denouement without actually having her on screen.
I thought the Paul Kinsey Sheila White story line had tremendous opportunities within the context of Mad Men. Interracial couple dynamics – but more importantly, the intersection of the Civil Rights Movement and the white world of Madison Avenue could have been fascinating to see expanded upon. They teed it up – and let it fall off a cliff.
Peter, you know I've always agreed about that. And I now wonder if Matt didn't simply go there too soon. I guess he really wanted the freedom riders moment. But it was poor writing, Paul coming back and the relationship simply having ended–a bit sitcom.
Sally's bullying at school storyline was something I thought was going somewhere, but there only ended up being that scene where she beat up Bobby.
I think the Peggy and Duck thing will definitely return next season. I also thought something bad would come out of Peggy and Karen being roommates but that turned out fine.
I really hope that we've seen the last of Miss Farrell. All of Don's affairs end abruptly, and that one was no different. There's no point in her returning since Don doesn't even live in Ossining anymore and her brother having his card doesn't matter since Don no longer works at SC. The only reason I would want her to return would be so Betty could find out about the affair, but even that would be pointless since she's now off to Reno to get the quickie divorce. I really hate that Don got away with that affair.
I guess for me there is a difference between story threads that may continue and things that really felt like there was more coming. Think back to the first meeting with Henry, when he felt Betty's belly. If he had never resurfaced after that episode, he would be on this list. This list is for red herring flavored moments.
Peggy and Duck, IMO, started as something you thought might become a fuller storyline, but in fact, I think we do know what that relationship is. Is it the end of that storyline? Not necessarily, but nor do I feel like I've been left hanging. I just thought, initially, that it would go somewhere different (like say, she'd end up working there), but I'm fine with where it is. Except for, y'know, eww.
I agree with Deb that Peggy and Pete's baby is resolved as a storyline. That doesn't mean it can't be revisited, but it is what it is.
And yes, I'd meant to include Shelley's remark about New York. I think the purpose of that was actually to show how Don really wasn't looking for a side affair.
To me, Peggy and Duck's relationship seemed to be about sex and having a good time. Nothing else. I suspect that this is the type of relationship that seems to suit Peggy. Although I'm still in the dark as to why some people are labeling the relationship as something disgusting. It can't be the age difference. Joan and Roger are nearly twenty years apart in age, and their relationship is popular with viewers. It can't be Duck. Frankly, he strikes me as being no better or worse than the other characters – including Don.
It's Duck.
And the age. We are talking about a 20-25 year difference vs. Joan and Roger, which is more like 15. Plus Peggy is so young.
But it's Duck.
Agreed, it's Duck- who I will never forgive for abandonning his dog.
At least Peggy has her sister looking after the quasi-abandoned baby.
samantha, Peggy gave her baby up for adoption. Her sister is raising her own children only.
I don't get the ick factor from Duck because of Chauncey, I just get it because I do. But in fact they seem okay together.
Much as I would like Peggy to have a bit of fun, what worries me about this relationship is not so much the "ewwww" reaction that Duck on heat provokes in me (this could be just a personal thing, and no offence to the actor, who is a good-looking man) but Duck's statement to Peggy shortly after her entering the Pierre that first time, when she asked for whisky – "you really are Don's girl, aren't you" I think Duck's initial interest in Peggy, both personally and professionally, was because of her connection with Don – it's possible that he may have grown to appreciate her as a person & as a professional by now, but we haven't seen any evidence of this & I hope Peggy doesn't invest too much in this relationship & be hurt. She seems to be taking it all very much in her stride, but she is very young.
Really? Big oops on my part…I assumed the significance of the scene where Peggy's sister asks "don't you want to see him…" and also the father Gill easter egg scene– "for the little one" or something like that–
(Surely I am mis quoting)– I thought the significance was that the little toddler was her baby.
Sounds like I have some serious re-watching to do!!
And I also agree the ick per se isn't from Chauncey. I just can't get past the stupid dog issue
perhaps for another thread…
samantha, the one to rewatch is The New Girl. A very pregnant Anita is visiting Peggy in the hospital. Matt was just messing with you, and it worked, a little too well, for a lot of people.
Peggy's roommate situation as "good?"
Nuh uh, they were already bickering and throwing girl insults at each other. For instance, Peggy's lob at her roommate's promiscuity or bad taste, "It's good you're getting more picky" (about men), for instance.
As for Suzanne Farrell, good riddance to bad rubbish — a character who was more an idea than an actual person.
I've read the actress has accepted a roll in an ongoing series, so buh bye!
I disagree entirely about Pete & Peggy’s baby; that was obviously the denouement of that plotline.
For Peggy, I suppose her confession gave her closure, but to Pete it is a new revelation which we never see him dealing with. I guess it can be assumed that Pete went into his own denial over his baby, his Peggy crush, etc, and chose to focus on Trudy and his career instead. But I'd have liked to have seen more ON-screen insight into this.
But Pete and Peggy still have to work together. In 'The Fog' we saw there was still tension between them. Pete's line "Your decisions affect me" hinted at the baby, but that grievance was never paid off. It would have been more interesting that many of the stories we got instead. I mean…Pete & Peggy were on the Pampers account together!! Why did we never see them working on that? Why did we never see Pete & Peggy working on ANY accounts together in S3? It just seemed like a waste of a good dynamic which had worked so well in S1 and S2.
The Pete-Peggy-Baby thing feels resolved to me. Peggy has moved on to Duck. Pete has a re-committed to Trudy (or at least as much as he ever has). The baby is being raised by another family.
I guess that I am alone in sort of liking Suzanne Farrell. She and Don did not have scorching chemistry, but neither do Betty and Henry. It always seemed like that was a deliberate parallel. The most chemistry either of the Drapers exhibited was with each other in Rome. However, they both abandoned that for something else. Miss Farrell was a sympathetic ear, because she is depressed and damaged as well. Could the parallels with their brothers (and by extension family situations) been made any clearer?
They were not sexy, because it was not a relationship about sex. It was about loneliness. Maybe we will see more of Miss Farrell next season, or maybe not. She might just wander off into the next thing.
I think these may reappear in Season 4.
I wonder if Duck and Peggy could be married wen we come back in season 4. That would be interesting…
The one asian girl in the whole series. what was her name? Waitress who seduces Don? *sigh*
By the way, I LOVE how one of Betty's Ossining women's group friends was an actress on the PBS show about the dog, "Wishbone" …. I'm positive it's her and it just tickles me that she's now in my new favorite GROWN-UP show!!
I kinda wish they had done more with Moneypenny. Lots and lots of wasted potential this year. I don't mind a few red herrings but this year it seemed like there were more dead ends than real plot points. It becomes tiresome.
I have a friend who thinks that the guy that Betty trysted with in the bar is the father of little baby Gene and that he will reappear at some point or Don will find out. But isn't the timing all wrong for that? It is true that Betty said, "I CANNOT have this baby" after the doc told her that she was pregnant, but I think the baby is Don's.
Concerning Peggy and Duck, I don't think Peggy is the marrying kind and neither is he at this point. I also wonder if her affair with him will become a real liability now that she is all lined up to play a major role in the new firm. I predict she drops Duck. All her loyalty will go to the new firm now that she is a player.
I had wondered if she and Father Gill might have an affair, but the priest/parishioner stuff is so old hat. I really hope not, but I would like to see him again.
It seems pretty evident that Greg Harris will die in Vietnam, leaving Joan as a merry widow.
I hope Suzanne is gone to stay. Maybe she will be transferred to another school or move to a new town to get away from Don. I just don't like those two together.
I used to think Don might be blackmailed, and Pete attempted a form of blackmail, but it did not work. Bert Cooper could have cared less. Now Betty knows the whole story, so there is no chance of blackmail with her involved. And Don will soon be single, if the story line continues this way, so his indiscretions will mean nothing.
Oh, and don't we all agree that Sal will return at the appropriate time and be in the new company?
"I have a friend who thinks that the guy that Betty trysted with in the bar is the father of little baby Gene "
She was already pregnant when she slept with that guy.
It's part of why she could sleep with him.
I don’t mind a few red herrings but this year it seemed like there were more dead ends than real plot points.
Sadly, I agree. For me a lot of the Drapers story seemed time consuming and wasteful. Not just the boring Farrell and Henry affairs, but Grandpa Gene and Baby Gene seemed v. important in the first half and then were largely forgotten in the second half. Sally was built up as a major character even though her story had no real climax in the end. I see how Connie was important because he pushed Don to start the new agency but I found Connie a really grating presence too.
I really liked Carla's increased role though and how it played into the Civil Rights rumblings. I hope she'll still be there in S4.
I wanted more Moneypenny too and more Olive. I was also disappointed that Ken Cosgrove went through S3 undeveloped, even though the co-Heads of Accounts story was the perfect opportunity to develop Kenny. But that story was almost entirely shown from Pete's side. I wish they'd done it more like Peggy and Paul's rivallry where we saw both characters career struggles.
I think it's clear Peggy is already easing away from Duck, who, if you remember when practically begging for the nooner, says "It's been three weeks!"
If Peggy were still serious about Duck, she wouldn't have put him off for three weeks. Duck isn't in boyfriend territory if Peggy is putting nearly a month between their meetings, and apparently only succumbing because she's horny, at that point.
Duck has to unplug the TV because he can't afford any distraction, or Peggy will elude him again.
Duck was, in part, Peggy's reaction to Bad Boss Don. A revenge fuck, almost. Now that Don is the appreciative mentor again (hell, making Peggy one among equals) I predict she gives Duck short shrift.
The Pete/Peggy baby seems too important to the story not to resurface. But think back to S2. Trudy really wanted a baby, enough to adopt. Pete had no interest in children and put his foot down. If he had in any way wanted a baby, he would have marched straight to St. Margaret's Hospital to demand the adoption records. He didn't. However, knowing he had fathered a child eliminated any last fears surrounding his fertility, so Pete feels manly.
He could be a lot nicer to Trudy, as a result, which is probably why they looked happier in S3. Trudy clearly doesn't know about the baby, nor would she have reason to know (have she and Peggy ever met?) and thus a potential explosion is kicked down the road.
Peggy and Trudy had already met by Paul's party in early '63. And now Trudy is bringing lunch to their office in room 435.
Could Pete have marched to the hospital and demanded adoption records back then? Could he even do that now? Access to adoption information was highly restricted, and a birth where the mother was unmarried also had privacy rules. I don't think Pete could have done anything, and I don't think he would have. Everything I've read about midcentury adoptions indicates that birth parents were encouraged to not even think about that baby once it was gone.
Not from season three, but:
Duck's dog. Maybe that goes without saying.
Joan's infatuated roommate. Am I the only one on BoK who wants to see the two of them in another scene together? I didn't think so. Dr Rapist is off to the Army, Joan's alone, they go out for a couple of drinks . . . oh yeah.
Guy? Is he still in (the) hospital?
and @SmilerG, I agree, isn't Freddy's time-out over yet?
Duck is just smarmy. Aside from the Chauncey thing, which wasn't especially endearing but probably not much worse than what Roger Sterling does to people, it's hard to believe a word he says because he never seems to let down his guard for even a second.
BUT…I can see how he would appeal to Peggy, because he's actually interested in giving her pleasure, which is a novelty for her. And he doesn't make a lot of demands on her other than meeting for a roll in the hay now and then. OTOH, SCDP working at the Pierre does seem to contraindicate her continuing to see him there. Don would flip his shit if he ever found out; so would Roger and Pete. Peggy values her career above all else, so I think she's done with Duck. Whether he's done with her, of course — and what he might do if he isn't — is another story.
I do think they love the red herrings on this show. I also think they create more interesting people than they know what to do with.
I was also disappointed that Ken Cosgrove went through S3 undeveloped, even though the co-Heads of Accounts story was the perfect opportunity to develop Kenny.
Agree 100%. I hope Aaron Staton is not off the show, because he still has my favorite line reading in MM history: "I'm Ken. Cosgrove. Accounts."
Come on, hook him up with Peggy, please!
Thanks Roberta –good thing nothing gets past me :p
#22 Dean – You are not alone. I totally understood the Suzanne connection and was hopeful when Don's parting line to her on the phone was "not right now." All along I believed her role in his life was soothing "Dick's" soul and helping him come to terms with who he really is. That made sense to me in the scope of Don's personal journey in S3. Since their parting and all the changes and revelations, Don/Dick is a different man. Suzanne served her purpose and I now believe Don will move on to a new type of woman in S4. I don't think she'll be a Midge or a Rachel and certainly not a Bobbie. At this point, I feel like he kind of needs a Trudy. Hmmmmmm . . .
As for Duck and Henry, I find them both to be attractive men with potential for further development in S4. I'm happy to wait and see where these relationships go, so I guess I'm the one who is really alone.
#41-Laura and #22-Dean, I'm on the record with both of you and there are others.
I liked Suzanne from the beginning and thought she was representative of the common, practical people that push for change in the '60s. Her comment to Don about teaching the MLK speech to her class and the phrase "they already know it, they just need to hear it from an adult." displayed some of the mature idealism that moves things forward in the next few years in the timeframe of the show.
Unfortunately, she might be written out; it's a good time to do it. If the show was being run by ABC, the negative reaction from the fans alone would spur the execs to "suggest" the writers toss her off the island. And if the show time jumps, they can soothe her detractors by just never speaking her name in New York again.
But I think MW will bring us right back to Christmas 1963 to start S4, 1964 is just too eventful to slide past it, and Don will have to at least personally deal with his fascination and desire for Suzanne. Also, Danny, her brother, is a character that could allow the writers to expand on topics like self-determination and societal responsibility for the less fortunate of us.
Keep hope alive! To paraphrase an old sport cliche,–The Ballet isn't over until the lithe, date nut bread baker gets her other series picked up.
#42 LOM – LOL! Love the thought of seeing all of '64. As a 1964 baby, it's what I've been hoping for. I'm fascinated by the glimpses of the world as it was when I arrived. Per my mother, MW continues to be spot on.
I'm all for no time jump for S4, just thinking it would be easier for the writers to begin with SCDP a little more "settled" and Don back in control in his new world with a new woman. Then again, I cling to the knowledge that MW is not one to take the easy path. I'll keep hoping if you keep me company, LOM. August can't come soon enough.
Laura Lynn, you're my long lost younger sister . . . if . . .you were clandestinely adopted, . . and my parents secretly abandoned one of the brood and did not tell the rest of us, that is. Well, that's probably a stretch.
Anyway, I wrestled my way into the world in 1962 and I too feel a sense of . . . placement, maybe, in watching MM.
I feel guessing what we see next can be fun but futile, yet we can always hope LL. Consider us the foundation of a Save Suzanne Support Group. We need a catch phrase or secret handshake or emoticon for showing solidarity. ha!
And yeah, August is a ways off. The estimable Basketcase esme has convinced me to re-watch S1 and S2 to while away the off-seasons. She's going all Einstein-ish working on a grand Mad Men Unification Theory to explain everything Draper, all at once.
I myself just found out I really miss the theme song every Sunday. That falling bongo drum beat makes me smile every time.
I don't think these stories are over:
Peggy and Duck (and the Pierre) – not so much because of Pete, other than his disapproval, but because of Don and Duck's animosity and because of the substitute boinking factor for both Duck and Peggy.
Jai alai guy (just because they need some clients to use to create stories in the office and some continuity.)
Joan and Roger's love for one another. I think they'll have an affair. I hope Jane finds out.
Lucky Jr. and his account. Not sure about Sal.
Don whoring for business. He really is a slut, you know?
I think these stories are over:
Peggy's baby's location and part in anyone's life, other than the fact that the baby exists and was from Peggy and Pete's hook up.
Kennedy stories, unless the show gets up to 1968.
I think these stories might show up but sort of hope not-
Suzanne and her brother. They spent so much time on that story with her. But if bro. shows up ala Don's little brother, it would seem a little too much like little brother.
I think these stories will be or should be part of the Mad Men future, but maybe just as background noise-
The New York World's Fair
Vietnam and LBJ – probably through Greg
The fall of Rockefeller republicanism and the rise of the radical right.
Civil Rights
MLK's Nobel Peace Prize
The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
Muhammad Ali (cause he's the greatest)
May 2, 1964: The first student anti- Vietnam War demonstration – in Times Square.
Shindig!
Ford Mustang (come on, we've got to have Mustang Sally!)
1964 World's Series (Cardinals v. Yankees, end of the dynasty)
Death of Cole Porter (because it fits, musically)
What I'm hoping they explore in season 4 is more of whether or not Francine is a Ghostbuster. Because it sure looked like she was driving the Ghostbuster-mobile in Souvenir.
#45: Esme, Yes, Muhammed was/is the greatest–but he was Cassius Clay back in 1964. I remember it well. Also, since I'm from St. Louis, the 1964 World Series. Pandemonium in STL!
I thought Betty was already pregnant when she had the quickie with the guy in the bar, too, so clearly my friend is wrong to think he might be the father of baby Gene. I think the reason she told the doctor that she could not have the baby at that time was because of her troubled marriage. I also thought it was interesting that she took the baby with her on the trip with Henry to Reno, but left the older kids with Carla. I am sure Carla could have watched the baby, too. In a way, it seems that Betty feels a special connection with baby Gene because he is named for her father. Or maybe it is just that she is breast feeding, though she does not seem to be the type to breastfeed, and I have seen Don giving the baby a bottle.
Is there a cd of all the music from Mad Men?
Re Joan and Roger having an affair….wouldn't that be a bit redundant? I mean, they already have had a steamy affair. If they get together, I think it might be on a serious level, maybe even marriage. But I think it is also possible they will be just good friends.
I don't see Joan with Don. She is not his type. He goes for either the plain but rather bohemian types like Midge and Suzanne or the classy ones like Betty or Rachel. Bobbie was a business type affair. I don't think he cared much for her. I think he and Joan will be friends, never lovers.
I can almost see Don and Peggy having a relationship, though, of some kind. They are both so driven, and he is seeing more in Peggy now than just the girl who brings the coffee or is in over her head. They both have pasts that are painful, mistakes that haunt them, and now the love for this new company and the determination to succeed. It could throw them together in some interesting ways. But I doubt it would end in marriage.
This new company and the divorce call for a real change in the character Don Draper, if you think about it, and that is what has driven the success of Mad Men. I don't see how he can remain the conflicted, philandering good guy/bad guy if he is not married and not climbing the corporate ladder in the traditional way. So many of his secrets are out now, to anyone who matters, so that story line is over.
I hope the writers can keep Don as sexy and interesting when he becomes a single guy without the huge paycheck who is trying to build a new company. It seems pretty mundane on the face of it.
Oh, I thought on another thing that could have been included and still might be….Conrad Hilton's marriage to Zsa Zsa Gabor. LOL
Since it was at least as random as the first interaction between Don and Connie, I thought for sure we would see the prison guard again, Don's compadre from the maternity ward's waiting room.
I'm concerned about Peggy's relationship because of Don. I think that this season Don has been through a lot and the one constant women in his life is Peggy (no mother, step-mother hated him, Betty does not love him). Peggy sees Don for who he is and she is the only woman in his life who he let his guard to aka Dick Whitman and did not leave. He showed his vulnerable side to Rachel and she was disgusted by him and he confessed to Betty and she in turn divorced him. I feel that Duck and Peggy's fling will be big issue and I can see Don feeling very betrayed that Peggy had a relationship with Duck.
I was re-watching the pilot and I was struck by the scene where Don yelled at peggy for letting Pete look through his trash. I don't know how much Don knows about Peggy's baby, but Don finding out the Peggy has a history with Pete and Duck will be a double wammy.
Don does not trust many people but he trust Peggy. I wonder what would happen to their relationship if he finds out about Pete and Duck
#44 LOM – I'll be re-watching all of S1 and S2, also. I promised my mom we'd sit down together so I can get her all caught up. She jumped in at some point in S2 and she's driving me nuts with all her back story questions. Plus, she keeps missing all the amazing props from my childhood. Baby Gene has been hanging out in MY baby carriage and somehow she's missed it every time. I'll ask about the adoption thing, who knows?
Should I see esme for a homework assignment regarding all things Draper?
Laura Lynn, I'm envious. I'd love to watch this show with my mom or dad. Those 39 TV sessions could be worth decades of talk therapy for us. My siblings and I could be so well-adjusted and wise if only we could have your type of viewing partner. I admire your good fortune.
Though I sympathize, strict rule Moms, no talking during the first showing!! That's a deal breaker right there, don't make me call down the usher.
You've got me scouring the memory files for the personal props. Nothing stands out for me at the moment, the caffeine needs to be absorbed, but I have a Sally-Don connection. My pop taught the eight-year old LOM how to mix Grasshoppers (!!?!) behind our two stool bar in our wood-paneled family room. In retrospect, it was sweet. My mom loved Grasshoppers at the holidays. Dad was a whiskey sour kinda guy, he showed me that later, I had to perfect Mom's cocktail first. Wow! the stuff you can remember huh?
If you type esme's name three times, she is magically summoned I hear.
She's spooky like that. It's Twilight Zone adorable, most of the time.
#52 Elizabeth–I think what Don and Peggy have is the classic mentor-student relationship. At some point in that relationship there has to come a time when the student separates from the mentor and goes on to assert his/her independence rather than being an acolyte anymore. Peggy's rapidly approaching that juncture; we're already seeing signs of that this season. I think that's going to continue in S4 and will be a fascinating story line.
Although it wasn't made completely clear, I think Don was smart enough to read between the lines and realize Peggy had had a baby when he went to see her in the hospital during Season 2. Whether or not he realizes Pete was the father is another story…will be interesting to see how he reacts to that if and when it's revealed. But like others, I think that story line is finished…adoption was an open and shut thing back then, and as Peggy so movingly put it at the end of S2, that part of her life is gone…until the kid shows up on her doorstep 20-odd years later, but that's beyond the MM time frame, no matter how popular it gets. At least I hope so… would hate to see Don and Co. in the '80's.
Part of the beauty of this show to me is that it captures a very, very specific timeframe–the period of the sixties before the sixties actually became the sixties, which no one has ever really explored–and then the mid-sixties, which we're up to now, before all hell broke loose (although actually with the coming of the Beatles it's about to). It was such a pivotal time in our country and we're still reacting to it, I think, even in the 21st century.
Laura Lynn, how great you're going to see S1 and S2 with your Mom, someone who actually went through the whole thing consciously
. I saw a few episodes with mine, and she said so many of the props—like the stuff in Don's office and the
Revereware saucepan Don uses to heat Betty's milk in the first episode of S3–were spot on. One thing she did say, when she saw Midge's black bra in S1 was that black underwear wasn't really mainstream then–only white, or maybe pink was the general rule. But I'm not sure if my mom realized that Midge was supposed to be an "alternative" character, i.e., a beatnik, so maybe she would have actually had the black underwear.
LOM, my dad was a Dewar's on the rocks guy or a G&T–very simple. But he didn't trust me to pour him a drink until I was well into my teens.
well, my name was only typed twice so it took a while for me to show up.
Laura Lynn – I'm not giving out any assignments, except to myself. If you have any juicy Don Draper bits to show, please do. especially if they involve very little clothing. (j/k, okay not)
I'm watching Season 1 and writing up my "waaaaaay late live dvd blogging" to keep track of The What in the dollhouse of my skull (that's a Tom Waits quote that I love, love love from a song called <a>Such A Scream… I tend to go off on tangents like that)
"The plow is red, the well is full
In the dollhouse of her skull
A cheetah coat fills up with steam"
…which is why I'm doing it in my own private idaho, but you're welcome to join in.
it's not safe for work, sometimes. It's not your mom's Mad Men, unless she went to clubs to watch strippers from the 60s and is interested in vulcanized rubber.
from SFC: Part of the beauty of this show to me is that it captures a very, very specific timeframe–the period of the sixties before the sixties actually became the sixties…
I agree, SFC. I'm kind of sorry to see that go, but I think the show would be true to the era if it showed that there were two versions of America going on, one based on youth culture and the other based on the world of the Dons and Roger Sterlings of the day. sort of like analog v. online.
The most excellent movie Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas, set in 1971, shows that The Old Ways were not obliterated by the Youthquake. "Raoul Duke" looks back:*
Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era — the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run . . . but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant. . . .
History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of “history†it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time — and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.
There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda. . . . You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting — on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in…
Las Vegas was full of people who'd never ridden that wave. They sat drinking their cocktails, listening to Tom Jones & Debbie Reynolds. And turning into giant lizards–although that was probably just Duke's state of mind.
Since we've done Drugs, let's switch to Sex. Black bras were not mainstream. But Frederick's of Hollywood had been in business since the late 40's, advertising in the lower class publications. Here's the 1964 catalog: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hollywoodplace/sets/…
* That's one of my favorite bits of prose–from the book or the movie or the soundtrack album. I don't see our Mad Folks catching that wave, but I hope some of them enjoy some of the changes coming. Rather than sitting in the smoky dives, while the designs in the carpet begin swirling….
not Bridget: Yeah, for one brief shining moment there was this sense of inevitability, that we were the prevailing force. Leave it to Hunter to get the mood of that era exactly right. Too bad it didn't last, but being so young, we hadn't experienced the inevitablity of history and the order of things. Still , with so many of us, we did make an impact, at least of a little while.
Thanks for echoing my mom's sentiments. Frederick's of Hollywood was where I thought Midge would have gotten black bras back then.
Plus, don't forget the Playtex ad- they were showing a black bra & girdle (as I recall). So they must have been "out there". That was probably part of Midge's appeal to Don – she's the sort of girl who'd be wearing one.
not-Bridget – great post!!
love the seque – Since we’ve done Drugs, let’s switch to Sex.
LOL.
I hope you can find it in your heart to give Betty some pity – in spite of her socio-economic status that makes her life seem vapid in comparison to real hardship and suffering. She was trying so hard to make Don happy in those first episodes. She really was all about loving him. She found out that even her most private moments with her doctor were not safe from betrayal from one man to another because… she has no reason to be unhappy. Don told her so.
okay, back to doing things that are actually productive, not pretend productive.
Before the serious business of next season's Mad Men, I wish we could have a Webisode: Betty's Adventures in Reno.
Let her get some cute cowgirl outfits & learn to ride Western. We know she can shoot! How long since she's been anywhere but Ossining or the grim manse in Philadelphia? (Rome was too little to count.) Reno ought to be a real change–chilly but not as snowbound as New York.
Let her learn something from the wise dames who've ridden the Marriage Go 'Round a few times. (Gene will be a great ice-breaker.) The place is crawling with lawyers–maybe she'll find one to work out a fair deal with Don's lawyer, long distance.
Let her learn to smile & not rush into marriage with Henry unless she really wants to.
Let her start missing her other kids. They'll forgive her absence if she'll understand their new fondness for Gospel music.
I assume that Don knows about Peggy's baby, but I'm not sure he knows Pete is the father.
esme, I agree with you, re-watching season 1, Betty really tries to make Don happy but he continues to do his own thing. Kudos to the writers who make the viewer sympathize with Don, when it is Betty who deserves sympathy. It is easy for us to judge Betty's behavior regarding her children because we forget that in the year 2009 a woman can have children and work and be feel happy in both roles. I have three kids and I think I would go crazy if I was with them every hour of everyday, I don't mean to sound cruel but being a mom and having a job is tough, but thank heavens I have a reason to leave the house and be me not just a mom.
Rachel Menken told Don in the pilot that "if I were a man I would not have to choose between running my father's business and having a family"
Don definitely knows about Peggy's baby. He visited her in the hospital and figured things out, I think, though he probably does not know that Pete was the father. I doubt that Pete could have gone to the hospital or wherever and claimed the child, since there was no definite way to prove paternity and Peggy wanted the child far, far away, not being raised by Pete, so she would not verify him as the father. Could the baby reappear? Only if someone knows where it ended up. But adoption records were much more secret back then. If a girl signed away her rights to the child, it was almost impossible to make contact and even deemed undesirable if the grown child wanted to find a birth parent. Adoption was for always then, not nearly as open and subject to later review as is the case now.
I can see Peggy have remorse about her decision, though. She was raised Catholic and having a child out of wedlock was a very big deal. She has a shell around herself now, to promote her amibition, but that shell may crack one day as she contronts any guilt she might be harboring. In fact, she said to Pete something about the baby just being "gone" that seemed a bit sad and regretful on some level, but she soon snapped out of it. Peggy made the decision and she does not want to go back on it, but who knows where her emotions will lead down the road.
Don probably will be more comfortable in his own skin now that he is starting his own company and no longer in the environment where he never expected to work, as he said to Roger as they left the impressive offices of Sterling Cooper. And he is no longer going to be married to a woman to whom he feels somewhat inferior. Water seeks its own level, as my grandmother used to say, and he might find a woman whose background is not so ritzy and privileged with whom he might have much more in common.
I wanted to see more of Peggy this season too. Her move to Manhattan, new roommate, could have been explored more. Of course, the groundwork is laid, and those subjects may figure well into next season.
Pete and Peggy's baby has to come into play in the future. They will be sharing a desk in the new "office." Did y'all notice Peggy's expression when Trudy walked in in the last episode with lunch? "Every kind of sandwich imaginable, and a cake!" (I just love Trudy). Anyway, Peggy was clearly uncomfortable.
I'm not sure where the almost universal dislike of Miss Farrell comes from. I didn't love the character, but the storyline kept my interest. It kept me guessing. She also reached Don, I believe, in a way others hadn't. She appealed more to Dick Whitman than Don Draper.
@57 not Bridget,
I clipped this article when it appeared (1967?), and I still have the clipping somewhere. As I had this paragraph almost committed to memory, I was able to find it on the Internet.
Andrew Kopkind (1935-1994), journalist, part of an essay in The New Statesman (circa 1967)
"Those who did not live before the revolution will never know how sweet life is, Tallyrand said, and perhaps for such knowledge there is a desperate sweetness as the disaster spreads in this summer of the American crack-up. Sergeant Pepper blares from ten million phonographs, they’re feeding the bears in Yellowstone Park, and the odor of barbecue wafting over the suburbs is suddenly mixed with the fragrance of pot. Hear it, see it, smell it while there is still time. For although there will be no revolution in the ordinary sense, the quality of life in the society–the values, the expectations, the perceptions–is radically changing. Things are not likely to be so sweet again."
This is the one big shortcomings that I feel the show has – not enough follow up or closure on some of the very interesting story lines. I hope it doesn't become the deficiency that ultimately turns viewers (including me) away and sabotage the success of the show.
@57 Not Brigget and @ #65 Born in the 50′s, what wonderful quotes, I really like those. I wasn’t alive in those days but spent the late 80′s obsessed with the 60′s (well the post-Mad Men 60′s) and this is the image I always go of what it must have been like at the time. Of course Robin Williams said “If you remembered the 60′s you didn’t live through the 60′s” but he was kind of whippersnapper then himself.
@66 Terri, I think this is something you will have to get used to. Remember Matt Weiner learned at the feet of the master, David Chase, on the Soprano’s and that show has often been called out for dangling storylines. Shoot you can even look at the series finale and see that. Somehow I think this is how MM will be too. Then again, it is sort of like how real life is, b/c more often than not we either don’t know exactly what really happened with the people we know, or we don’t find out how things ended for people or if we find out we find out years after the fact and don’t get the whole story. Really, unless you outlive someone you don’t really know how their life turns out and even then you don’t know all or propbably even most of it.