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	<title>Comments on: Don has never told Betty he loved her</title>
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	<description>Intelligent media, including Mad Men, Downton Abbey, The Walking Dead, Hell on Wheels &#38; more.</description>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41894</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41894</guid>
		<description>&quot;Women who are against Betty&#226;&#8364;&#8220;who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having &#226;&#8364;&#732;Very Special Problems&#226;&#8364;&#8482;&#226;&#8364;&#8220;are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive.&quot; 
 
Right on. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Women who are against Betty&acirc;&euro;&ldquo;who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having &acirc;&euro;&tilde;Very Special Problems&acirc;&euro;&trade;&acirc;&euro;&ldquo;are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn&acirc;&euro;&trade;t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive.&quot; </p>
<p>Right on.</p>
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		<title>By: not Bridget.</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41893</link>
		<dc:creator>not Bridget.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41893</guid>
		<description>Born in 1948, I understand the problems of real women dating back to the 1950&#039;s.  But the women I remember (like my mother) were of another social class.  Definitely not Main Line. 
 
Personally, I found too many other characters neglected last season in order to paint a picture of suburban &lt;i&gt;ennui&lt;/i&gt;.  If the intention was to make the viewer feel Betty&#039;s boredom personally, I surely did.  I hope we can see more of the others next season. 
 
Yes, Poor Betty deserves my pity. But what about Carla, Joan &amp; Peggy?  Not to be classist, Mona &amp; Trudy dealt with some real problems.  Not to be sexist--what about Sal? 
 
See--I made a post without casting aspersion on other posters. I wouldn&#039;t mind being Medieval, but my Middle English isn&#039;t very good.  (I don&#039;t remember the Wife of Bath complaining much; maybe Betty&#039;s pilgrimage to Reno will open her eyes.  Pray for a miracle!) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Born in 1948, I understand the problems of real women dating back to the 1950&#039;s.  But the women I remember (like my mother) were of another social class.  Definitely not Main Line. </p>
<p>Personally, I found too many other characters neglected last season in order to paint a picture of suburban <i>ennui</i>.  If the intention was to make the viewer feel Betty&#039;s boredom personally, I surely did.  I hope we can see more of the others next season. </p>
<p>Yes, Poor Betty deserves my pity. But what about Carla, Joan &amp; Peggy?  Not to be classist, Mona &amp; Trudy dealt with some real problems.  Not to be sexist&#8211;what about Sal? </p>
<p>See&#8211;I made a post without casting aspersion on other posters. I wouldn&#039;t mind being Medieval, but my Middle English isn&#039;t very good.  (I don&#039;t remember the Wife of Bath complaining much; maybe Betty&#039;s pilgrimage to Reno will open her eyes.  Pray for a miracle!)</p>
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		<title>By: Mari</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41892</link>
		<dc:creator>Mari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41892</guid>
		<description>Jimmy, hi. Big Penny-Arcade fan here too, though I&#039;m always nervous about actually speaking up. 
 
Of course Betty has no emotional vocabulary, of course she isn&#039;t going to be able to address the anger at her mother. She can&#039;t address any anger directly at its source until second season. Some people are repressed. 90% of the characters on the show, I&#039;d argue. 
 
It wasn&#039;t considered valuable for a beautiful woman to be intelligent then--still today it&#039;s best to let the man play smartest boy around.  Don fell in love with her, made his choices, seemed fine with them. I don&#039;t think I heard him complain directly about the commute once in the series. 
 
Betty made a decision to play the game, not knowing it was rigged against her. I&#039;d say she still thought she could win consistently up until she found out about Bobbie, and occasionally entertained again after, as in Rome. But she&#039;s waking up. 
 
Women who are against Betty--who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having &#039;Very Special Problems&#039;--are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn&#039;t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive. Real women had kids they never should have, real women learned that a beautiful woman was prettier still with her mouth shut. And if it&#039;s not supportive of problems that real women faced in the early 60s...what is it? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy, hi. Big Penny-Arcade fan here too, though I&#039;m always nervous about actually speaking up. </p>
<p>Of course Betty has no emotional vocabulary, of course she isn&#039;t going to be able to address the anger at her mother. She can&#039;t address any anger directly at its source until second season. Some people are repressed. 90% of the characters on the show, I&#039;d argue. </p>
<p>It wasn&#039;t considered valuable for a beautiful woman to be intelligent then&#8211;still today it&#039;s best to let the man play smartest boy around.  Don fell in love with her, made his choices, seemed fine with them. I don&#039;t think I heard him complain directly about the commute once in the series. </p>
<p>Betty made a decision to play the game, not knowing it was rigged against her. I&#039;d say she still thought she could win consistently up until she found out about Bobbie, and occasionally entertained again after, as in Rome. But she&#039;s waking up. </p>
<p>Women who are against Betty&#8211;who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having &#039;Very Special Problems&#039;&#8211;are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn&#039;t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive. Real women had kids they never should have, real women learned that a beautiful woman was prettier still with her mouth shut. And if it&#039;s not supportive of problems that real women faced in the early 60s&#8230;what is it?</p>
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		<title>By: gypsy howell</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41891</link>
		<dc:creator>gypsy howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41891</guid>
		<description>Jimmy, what part of not-B&#039;s post was lacking in show knowledge?  I missed that. 
 
It&#039;s not misogynistic to dislike a particular woman.  In fact, I would say it is the opposite of that.  &quot;Misogynists&quot; would lump ALL women into a category, and despise them not because of the kind of people they are as individuals, but because they are, simply, women.  There is no one way for &quot;how we should speak about women&quot; if women are to be treated as individuals. 
 
not-Bridget is responding to a very specific woman, Betty, and reacting to her based on everything we&#039;ve seen over 3 seasons of MM.  You can disagree with her take on Betty (lord knows we&#039;ve had more vehement disagreements here at BoK about Betty than any other character on the show) but it&#039;s not &quot;misogynistic&quot; to not like her. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy, what part of not-B&#039;s post was lacking in show knowledge?  I missed that. </p>
<p>It&#039;s not misogynistic to dislike a particular woman.  In fact, I would say it is the opposite of that.  &quot;Misogynists&quot; would lump ALL women into a category, and despise them not because of the kind of people they are as individuals, but because they are, simply, women.  There is no one way for &quot;how we should speak about women&quot; if women are to be treated as individuals. </p>
<p>not-Bridget is responding to a very specific woman, Betty, and reacting to her based on everything we&#039;ve seen over 3 seasons of MM.  You can disagree with her take on Betty (lord knows we&#039;ve had more vehement disagreements here at BoK about Betty than any other character on the show) but it&#039;s not &quot;misogynistic&quot; to not like her.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41890</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41890</guid>
		<description>Look, at most forums where I go, like Penny-Arcade, people do a good job of policing themselves almost to the point where mods are not needed.  And part of that includes calling out trolls, which include folks who make blanket misogynistic statements about characters and get some of the most basic facts about a show wrong.  People also get called out when they say extremely morally questionable things, like that aforementioned misogynist fest about Betty.  In other words, when someone walks into a thread and takes a dump in it, the person who dumps gets their back ridden, not the people who find that behavior abhorrent.  I don&#039;t know why it works the opposite here, but now I know for the future. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, at most forums where I go, like Penny-Arcade, people do a good job of policing themselves almost to the point where mods are not needed.  And part of that includes calling out trolls, which include folks who make blanket misogynistic statements about characters and get some of the most basic facts about a show wrong.  People also get called out when they say extremely morally questionable things, like that aforementioned misogynist fest about Betty.  In other words, when someone walks into a thread and takes a dump in it, the person who dumps gets their back ridden, not the people who find that behavior abhorrent.  I don&#039;t know why it works the opposite here, but now I know for the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta Lipp</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41889</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Lipp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41889</guid>
		<description>The difference is, one comment discussed a character on the show, while your attack was on the person making the comment. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is, one comment discussed a character on the show, while your attack was on the person making the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41888</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41888</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get if that&#039;s supposed to be a threat or not, but medieval is about as nice a thing as can be said for a post that is as lacking in show knowledge and is as misogynistic as brigette&#039;s. 
 
I mean, I don&#039;t hate women, and call them dull and simpering and spoiled when that&#039;s clearly not the case, but that&#039;s just me.  C&#039;est la vie, I suppose.  Maybe you have a different view on how we should speak about women. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#039;t get if that&#039;s supposed to be a threat or not, but medieval is about as nice a thing as can be said for a post that is as lacking in show knowledge and is as misogynistic as brigette&#039;s. </p>
<p>I mean, I don&#039;t hate women, and call them dull and simpering and spoiled when that&#039;s clearly not the case, but that&#039;s just me.  C&#039;est la vie, I suppose.  Maybe you have a different view on how we should speak about women.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberta Lipp</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41887</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberta Lipp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41887</guid>
		<description>Jimmy, just a little blurb from our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lippsisters.com/about-2/#comment&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comments Policy&lt;/a&gt; while I carefully consider my next step: 
 
&lt;em&gt;In general, stick to discussions of things related to the show, rather than things related to our blog, other blogs, or other Basketcases, and you won&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t get into trouble. This isn&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t a schoolyard. If you brawl, we&#226;&#8364;&#8482;ll start by deleting comments, not commenters, but we make no promises about the shortness of our tempers. Play nice, share your toys, and don&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t kick sand.&lt;/em&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy, just a little blurb from our <a href="http://www.lippsisters.com/about-2/#comment"  rel="nofollow">Comments Policy</a> while I carefully consider my next step: </p>
<p><em>In general, stick to discussions of things related to the show, rather than things related to our blog, other blogs, or other Basketcases, and you won&acirc;&euro;&trade;t get into trouble. This isn&acirc;&euro;&trade;t a schoolyard. If you brawl, we&acirc;&euro;&trade;ll start by deleting comments, not commenters, but we make no promises about the shortness of our tempers. Play nice, share your toys, and don&acirc;&euro;&trade;t kick sand.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41886</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41886</guid>
		<description>Bridgette, you speak and speak, and yet your words boil down to the fact that Don&#039;s tall, dark, and blameless, and his ice queen of a wife won&#039;t get behind his bachelor-husbandom.  How medieval you are. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bridgette, you speak and speak, and yet your words boil down to the fact that Don&#039;s tall, dark, and blameless, and his ice queen of a wife won&#039;t get behind his bachelor-husbandom.  How medieval you are.</p>
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		<title>By: not Bridget.</title>
		<link>http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/11/23/don-has-never-told-betty-he-loved-her/comment-page-2/#comment-41885</link>
		<dc:creator>not Bridget.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 10:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=9103#comment-41885</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be glad to see Don without Dull Betty simpering in spoiled hatred in the &#039;burbs.  Well, she may still be there--but now she can blame Henry.  And we probably won&#039;t have to have so many more interesting characters neglected to focus on her Very Special Problems. 
 
When the show began, Betty was having physical symptoms that led her to a shrink.  He wasn&#039;t very good--but had the sense to finally ask if she was angry with her mother.  Oh, no! She had &lt;i&gt;loved&lt;/i&gt; her mother!  Evil Don was preventing her from mourning the old bat.  Then she found out he was violating her confidentiality &amp; reporting the sessions to Don.  Rather than firing the shrink &amp; yelling at Don, she passively aggressively began using the sessions to get what she wanted out of him.  And avoided the awkward question that  might have gotten to the root of her hatred of the suburban life that Don had financed for her. 
 
It&#039;s too bad that Sally was conceived so early.  Perhaps Don &amp; Betty could have grown up &amp; grown together if they&#039;d had a few years as a young couple in the city.  Would Don have opened up about his background?  Would they have discussed whether his talents might take them elsewhere?  Hey, frozen Betty might even have begun to express some of those &quot;Thoughts&quot; she boasted of in her letter to Henry.  Although she apparently got through four years at Bryn Mawr with the absolute minimum of intellectual effort.  Then she got pregnant &amp; fled to the suburbs; her parents were glad to get her out of that dump in the city.  And Don kept working at a job he didn&#039;t love, with a long commute taking him to a big house filled with stodgy furniture &amp; a Betty sinking into suburban numbness. 
 
I look forward to seeing Don &amp; his colleagues trying to make sense of the 60&#039;s next season.  Learning, growing &amp; working together. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ll be glad to see Don without Dull Betty simpering in spoiled hatred in the &#039;burbs.  Well, she may still be there&#8211;but now she can blame Henry.  And we probably won&#039;t have to have so many more interesting characters neglected to focus on her Very Special Problems. </p>
<p>When the show began, Betty was having physical symptoms that led her to a shrink.  He wasn&#039;t very good&#8211;but had the sense to finally ask if she was angry with her mother.  Oh, no! She had <i>loved</i> her mother!  Evil Don was preventing her from mourning the old bat.  Then she found out he was violating her confidentiality &amp; reporting the sessions to Don.  Rather than firing the shrink &amp; yelling at Don, she passively aggressively began using the sessions to get what she wanted out of him.  And avoided the awkward question that  might have gotten to the root of her hatred of the suburban life that Don had financed for her. </p>
<p>It&#039;s too bad that Sally was conceived so early.  Perhaps Don &amp; Betty could have grown up &amp; grown together if they&#039;d had a few years as a young couple in the city.  Would Don have opened up about his background?  Would they have discussed whether his talents might take them elsewhere?  Hey, frozen Betty might even have begun to express some of those &quot;Thoughts&quot; she boasted of in her letter to Henry.  Although she apparently got through four years at Bryn Mawr with the absolute minimum of intellectual effort.  Then she got pregnant &amp; fled to the suburbs; her parents were glad to get her out of that dump in the city.  And Don kept working at a job he didn&#039;t love, with a long commute taking him to a big house filled with stodgy furniture &amp; a Betty sinking into suburban numbness. </p>
<p>I look forward to seeing Don &amp; his colleagues trying to make sense of the 60&#039;s next season.  Learning, growing &amp; working together.</p>
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