Nov 232009
Not on camera anyway. In A Night to Remember, she said he didn’t, and he said “I do, all the time.” In the Gypsy and the Hobo he said that Anna reminded him he loved her. But we have never seen him look Betty in the eyes and tell her “I love you,” or even say it when kissing her on the cheek when he leaves in the morning or comes home at night. Ever.
For that matter, we’ve never seen Betty say “I love you” to Don. Her people being Nordic may be part of it.
In the ongoing discussion about the demise of the Draper’s marriage, I’ve never seen this specifically brought up, and it’s clearly part of the picture.
86 Responses to “Don has never told Betty he loved her”
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I totally agree that Betty wanted reassurance from Don, and she never got it on an emotional level. I think Don married Betty because she was everything his mother and step-mother were not…soft, well-bred, proper, from an affluent family, etc. She had the class he craved.
Even in the sixties, people threw around the word "love" as in "I love ice cream" and "I love puppies" and "I love Elvis" or whatever. But everyone knows that there are times when "I love you" is very deeply spoken and heartfelt and there are times when it is a throwaway phrase on a par with good-bye and there are other times when it is totally insincere, which is why relationships are so complicated, I suppose. Ha. It is very true that men were expected in the post-war period right up until the Flower Child years to be the strong, silent types who were good providers. They showed their love by making money and giving their wives and children nice homes, expensive cars and country club memberships. Just as soldiers returning from WWII seldom talked about the harshness of war, men of that era did not open up about their feelings. Women were just expected to know. The "real man" was a rugged individualist or a suave charmer, but not a sensitive type who wore his feelings on his sleeve.
Ruth: I just reread what you said and realized I miss the point completely. You said “that Don was NOT more upset.”
I missed one word. Now I can’t delete my last post!
Really interesting discussion developing here! I don't see a lot of Draper marriage analysis that is as sympathetic as this towards Betty. So this makes a refreshing change.
I think Don married Betty because she was everything his mother and step-mother were not…soft, well-bred, proper, from an affluent family, etc
The episode 'Maidenform' got me thinking that both Don and Pete suffered from the Madonna-whore complex, especially when learning that this complex usually develops in men who were raised by cold distant mother figures, which both Don and Pete were.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna-whore_comple…
I think we've seen both Don and Pete treating their wives as mother figures while seeking sexual fulfillment in their extramarital affairs. When Betty wanted to be a model again it was Don who persuaded her to go back to the mother role he preferred her in. Don wasn't turned on by the sexy black underwear Betty bought for Valentines day and he was appalled to see her in the yellow bikini. This was around the time Don was enjoying his "bad" sexual relationship with Bobbi Barrett.
If Don had been projecting his Madonna-whore complex onto Betty, then the bedroom confrontation is the moment when Don tears down his own illusions – telling Betty she is a bad mother, then demoting her to a whore. Even his sneering line "You're good and everyone else is bad" seems like Don is bitter, because Betty was supposed to be good. She failed in the ideals that Don placed on her. And that seems to be the moment when Don stops fighting for his marriage and ends it himself.
When Betty wanted to be a model again it was Don who persuaded her to go back to the mother role he preferred her in.
I just re-watched that episode recently, and I didn't see it that way at all. I thought Don liked the idea of Betty becoming a model again and in fact was kind of turned on by it, although obviously he had mixed feelings about her being used by McCann to snare him. But I thought he was pretty supportive of her venture (as supportive as I've seen him be towards Betty anyway.) It was only when she faced rejection from McCann and decided she didn't have it in her to do what it would take to launch her career again, that Don let her save face gently by re-affirming her role as mother & wife.
Looking back, I'm not sure Don ever really loved Betty. That is the central tragedy of their marriage. I think he thought he was supposed to love her, but in the end "the heart wants what it wants." You can't MAKE yourself love someone, no matter how much you think you should or how deserving the other person might be of it.
In 'Six Month Leave', when Don admits to Roger that he's staying at the Roosevelt, Roger tries to offer him sympathy. Don, in a moment of openness, says what's really in his heart, although maybe he didn't realize it at the time. He said he wasn't unhappy, he was relieved. Relieved!
'Relieved' is not what you feel when you're fighting with the person you truly love. Relieved is what you feel when you've been released from the prison of a relationship where there is no love.
That explains in part why he went from affair to affair. He was still looking to fill the emptiness inside that should have been filled with love, but wasn't.
I think that's why he let Betty go at the end. On some level (conscious? subconscious?), he accepted the fact that he does not love her, and he never will. But when he comes out of the room and sees his new company,he has a beaming smile on his face. He is relieved, and he is free.
The episode ‘Maidenform’ got me thinking that both Don and Pete suffered from the Madonna-whore complex, especially when learning that this complex usually develops in men who were raised by cold distant mother figures, which both Don and Pete were.
I think that cold mutha is the history of patriarchal culture.
I think that Don & Betty were very much in love when they married. Because they were two beautiful young people who were hot for each other; that is one kind of love. And Don appreciated Betty's "good" family. By which he did not mean "Main Line"–he thought she came from a nice, normal background & could create a good home for their eventual children.
He proved his love by giving up night school & going to work at Sterling Cooper–because he couldn't support her on what the furrier paid him to write copy. He'd probably turned down Roger's first offer because he really didn't want to devote his life to Advertising. But he changed his mind after meeting Betty. And getting her attention with an expensive fur–a girl has needs.
So they got a cute little apartment in the city–with time, they would get to know each other. Maybe Betty's upbringing hadn't been that perfect, after all–what did she really want out of life? How many kids? When? Where would they live? Maybe Don would have revealed more about his own background. In those days, people didn't shack up until the thrill was gone–or until they decided to marry. They married & then grew toward a more mature love–if they were lucky.
But Betty got pregnant very quickly. Birth control was dicey in those days & she was probably inexperienced. I seem to remember they moved to Ossining before Sally's birth. Whose idea was that? Did Don, the son of a hardscrabble farmer, get the inspiration for a Colonial Revival in the 'burbs? Betty's parents were both alive & well. Her mother, preaching the conventional life that had probably not even made her happy & Gene, looking on Don with disapproval.
Poor, disappointed Betty, her wings clipped so young. In a few years, she might have been strong enough to point out to her parents that babies could live in the big city; the kid wouldn't need schooling for years. No, she went along with the plan for the big house filled with furniture & the two cars. Don's role was to work hard in the city–at a job he didn't love–& bring a big paycheck home to the big house in the 'burbs. Because he thought it would make Betty happy. And she thought so, too.
But it didn't work out.
Of course Don was at fault for having affairs when Betty got caught in the suburban cage she'd created. But he didn't marry her as part of a Machiavellian scheme to get a pretty corporate wife & then stick her in the suburbs.
#28
Deborah: From The Wheel forward, he had a real desire to change. He tried to be good. He provided what he thought Betty wanted, he pleaded to come back, he was good to her throughout her pregnancy, he took her father in despite their antipathy for each other because it was what she needed, he took her to Rome, he begged, he insisted, he demanded. He has very limited resources in relationships and he used all of them. And then he found out she was having an affair (which, physical consummation or not, she was). He must have felt the perfect fool.
Deborah, Don was doing great this season (stewardess aside) until he met Miss Farrell. I know Betty doesn't know about her, but still. That was a serious affair which was physically consummated. It trumps Betty/Henry in my book.
Ruth, Don went to Suzanne for the first time after he and Betty got back from Rome. There was something very final about the way she rejected his gift. It was like, they'd had this glorious time, and she still hated their life. I think at that point part of him gave up.
Betty loves Don. The last telephone call of 3-13 proves it. She lied at the end of season three when she said she didn’t love him any more. When he calls from the new “office,†just watch her facial and body expressions as he tells her he's staying at a hotel, that he will not fight her in the divorce, she was sorry and shaken. When he said he wouldn't fight her she didn't cheer. She really wanted Don to change, to be the husband she deserves, to be a straight-up, open, loving man who takes care of her needs for love and security. She wanted him to say to her what he had said to Anna a year before: I have been wrong. She wanted him to say, “I’m changing my ways because I see how precious you are to me. Test me and see if you can trust me, please.†She got none of that from him. The most awful irony is that Don said to her, “I hope you get what you always wanted.†Instead, Betty was getting anything but that. She wanted the husband she thought she was getting at her wedding. She got either nothing or a stranger. Betty also certainly did not want to be on that airplane, either. But she had no choice and had to Reno right now before she weakened as she had consistently done before.
Too bad that Don's little boy broken heart that he's hiding behind a big wall won't let him do what he must in order to save the marriage.
#Deborah
You may be right. I've been watching the Don-Betty relationship this season from Betty's perspective. I will now have to (great excuse!) go back & watch it again focusing on it from Don's perspective. Don may well have regarded his efforts as unappreciated by Betty. I just found the whole Suzanne relationship very strange – it was almost like he was hypnotised or bewitched. On your reasoning, Don doesn't feel guilty about the break-up because he regards it as Betty's fault, he has given her everything she wanted (he thinks) and she still isn't happy.
But when you say Don "gave up" – do you mean that he gave up on loving Betty, or on feeling obliged to act like he loved her? I think the latter. If he loved Betty, he would be devastated at the break-up even if he had no reason to feel guilty – hell, he would feel guilty even if he had no reason to feel guilty.
Although he has lied about so many factual things, Don doesn't I think lie to other people about his feelings towards them – that's what makes people as different (or similar?) as Conrad Hilton or Pete Campbell reallly value his approval.
I think Don is unable to say clearly that he loves and needs Betty, despite the fact that in almost every episode she gives him an opportunity, indeed often deliberately sets up an opportunity for him to do so, because deep down he doesn't believe that he does – although this being Madmen, maybe he is yet to find out he is wrong in this belief -or maybe not.
So much to look forward to in Season 4!!
Ruth, very perceptive about Don's honesty with his feelings. I think he "gave up" on ever being able to succeed as a husband; at least as Betty's husband. "Nothing I do is enough" is a terrible feeling.
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Interestingly, these are nearly the same words that Betty says to Don, alluding to his affairs. "I was never enough", or something along those lines (does anyone remember the exact wording?
I think neither of them feel really SEEN by the other partner, and therefore feel alone and unappreciated. Each tries as hard as he/she can to do what they think they are supposed to do (Don works hard and is a good provider; Betty takes care of her figure, dresses beautifully, and presents a lovely home), yet feels the other takes this hard work for granted. So they each try harder (Don bringing home raises; Betty redecorating the house), and it STILL doesn't work. Nothing either of them does is enough.
#67
Celia
This is the dialogue in the bedroom scene between Don & Betty in Shut the Door. Of course the dialogue as set out by me below can in no way do justice to the change in tones between lines, the emphasis on particular words, or the characters' facial expressions. Betty's "never been enough" remark comes right in the middle (right at the heart of?) this exchange.
D: Wake up.
B: Ssh…he’s sleeping.
D: I don’t care. Who the hell is Henry Francis?
B: [long pause] [whispers] No one.
[Don pulls her out of bed]
B Stop it, stop it.
D: Who the hell is he?
B: Why do you care?
D: Because you’re good, and everyone else in the world is bad.
B You’re drunk
D: You’re so hurt, so brave, with your little white nose in the air. All along you’ve been building a life raft.
B: Get out.
D: You never forgave me.
B: Forgave what? That I’ve never been enough
D: [shouting] You got everything you ever wanted. Everything. And you loved it. And now I’m not good enough for some spoiled mainline brat
B: [shouting] That’s right.
D: You won’t get a nickel. And I’ll take the kids. God knows they’d be better off
B: I’m going to Reno and you’re going to consent and that’s the end of this. Don’t threaten me. I know all about you
D: You’re a whore
Baby cries
B: I want you out of the house
I have a hard time with this:
"Ruth, very perceptive about Don’s honesty with his feelings. I think he “gave up†on ever being able to succeed as a husband; at least as Betty’s husband. “Nothing I do is enough†is a terrible feeling."
Don, a schmuck we're led to believe was out whoring on the very night his daughter was born, decides he's going to do what, on a surface-level treat his wife right for nine months out of a nine year marriage, one's he shat on and lied through the whole time, right for a little while and we're supposed to what, pity him when she still rejects him? Really?
Really.
Then I guess I side with Ruth, here. I don't feel bad for sociopaths who choose to keep setting themselves up for self-fulfilling prophecies.
Jimmy – I don't think Don was a good husband & I don't feel pity for him over the breakdown of his marriage, though I suspect I would if he were more visibly upset – but I wouldn't rank him as a sociopath by any stretch of the imagination. See comments on demonic above. He's a flawed character with most of his flaws being in his personal rather than his professional relationships & that's what makes him interesting to watch. A very difficult man to be married to, though, without a doubt, and I do feel sorry for Betty.
Well, to quote from Woody Allen:
Irmy: I slept with someone for it. Does that makes me a whore?
Kleinmann: [Referring to the money he's holding] This?
Irmy: Just one person. Does that make me a whore?
Kleinmann: Well, no, only by the dictionary definition.
Don's not a sociopath only if we disregard what the word actually means. He may not be a Manson, but he is on the sociopath spectrum.
But I totally side with you about Betty. The guy tried to tend only to her most surface of needs (because he chose to never really try to know her; she was "a child" and that was as far as he went) during her preganacy and then somehow we are supposed to feel bad for him when his wife rejects him. I just don't get it.
Like I said, I'm only going by what the word means.
Best,
Jimmy
Still don’t think he is a sociopath. But it’s nice to see Betty being appreciated.
#64- I totally agree with your assessment. Ithink she was devestated he wouldn't fight for her. I think that in season 2 when he tried to repeatedly come back- he gave her every OTHER reason- You need me, You are grieving… – except – I'm sorry, I love you…. And when he wrote that- he never really said it- she let him back , however tentatively.
I know I have said this before- but I think that it will be interesting to see how he acts with the Total Freedom he has been craving. He always fantasized about walking away from Betty and their marriage- from the first episodes of season 1. He was too afraid to actually go through with it openly and honestly.
I think Don has maneuvered Betty into a position where SHE HAD to leave him. I think he was too cowardly to do it himself, but neglected her, lied to her, disappeared on her, and cheated on her so that any woman would look to an escape hatch- and she gets to look like the adulterer and bad guy, even though it has been him all along. He even gets to call her a whore- what does that make him?
But my central idea is – what now- when you are "free". Is this authentic freedom? With your kids wrecked and damaged, your home not yours, your bed will be a revolving door? Is it truly freeing to escape the people who have committed to love you?
I have to say it was disturbing to see him land, not only on his feet, but is a position of power and dominance…
I'll be glad to see Don without Dull Betty simpering in spoiled hatred in the 'burbs. Well, she may still be there–but now she can blame Henry. And we probably won't have to have so many more interesting characters neglected to focus on her Very Special Problems.
When the show began, Betty was having physical symptoms that led her to a shrink. He wasn't very good–but had the sense to finally ask if she was angry with her mother. Oh, no! She had loved her mother! Evil Don was preventing her from mourning the old bat. Then she found out he was violating her confidentiality & reporting the sessions to Don. Rather than firing the shrink & yelling at Don, she passively aggressively began using the sessions to get what she wanted out of him. And avoided the awkward question that might have gotten to the root of her hatred of the suburban life that Don had financed for her.
It's too bad that Sally was conceived so early. Perhaps Don & Betty could have grown up & grown together if they'd had a few years as a young couple in the city. Would Don have opened up about his background? Would they have discussed whether his talents might take them elsewhere? Hey, frozen Betty might even have begun to express some of those "Thoughts" she boasted of in her letter to Henry. Although she apparently got through four years at Bryn Mawr with the absolute minimum of intellectual effort. Then she got pregnant & fled to the suburbs; her parents were glad to get her out of that dump in the city. And Don kept working at a job he didn't love, with a long commute taking him to a big house filled with stodgy furniture & a Betty sinking into suburban numbness.
I look forward to seeing Don & his colleagues trying to make sense of the 60's next season. Learning, growing & working together.
Bridgette, you speak and speak, and yet your words boil down to the fact that Don's tall, dark, and blameless, and his ice queen of a wife won't get behind his bachelor-husbandom. How medieval you are.
Jimmy, just a little blurb from our Comments Policy while I carefully consider my next step:
In general, stick to discussions of things related to the show, rather than things related to our blog, other blogs, or other Basketcases, and you won’t get into trouble. This isn’t a schoolyard. If you brawl, we’ll start by deleting comments, not commenters, but we make no promises about the shortness of our tempers. Play nice, share your toys, and don’t kick sand.
I don't get if that's supposed to be a threat or not, but medieval is about as nice a thing as can be said for a post that is as lacking in show knowledge and is as misogynistic as brigette's.
I mean, I don't hate women, and call them dull and simpering and spoiled when that's clearly not the case, but that's just me. C'est la vie, I suppose. Maybe you have a different view on how we should speak about women.
The difference is, one comment discussed a character on the show, while your attack was on the person making the comment.
Look, at most forums where I go, like Penny-Arcade, people do a good job of policing themselves almost to the point where mods are not needed. And part of that includes calling out trolls, which include folks who make blanket misogynistic statements about characters and get some of the most basic facts about a show wrong. People also get called out when they say extremely morally questionable things, like that aforementioned misogynist fest about Betty. In other words, when someone walks into a thread and takes a dump in it, the person who dumps gets their back ridden, not the people who find that behavior abhorrent. I don't know why it works the opposite here, but now I know for the future.
Jimmy, what part of not-B's post was lacking in show knowledge? I missed that.
It's not misogynistic to dislike a particular woman. In fact, I would say it is the opposite of that. "Misogynists" would lump ALL women into a category, and despise them not because of the kind of people they are as individuals, but because they are, simply, women. There is no one way for "how we should speak about women" if women are to be treated as individuals.
not-Bridget is responding to a very specific woman, Betty, and reacting to her based on everything we've seen over 3 seasons of MM. You can disagree with her take on Betty (lord knows we've had more vehement disagreements here at BoK about Betty than any other character on the show) but it's not "misogynistic" to not like her.
Jimmy, hi. Big Penny-Arcade fan here too, though I'm always nervous about actually speaking up.
Of course Betty has no emotional vocabulary, of course she isn't going to be able to address the anger at her mother. She can't address any anger directly at its source until second season. Some people are repressed. 90% of the characters on the show, I'd argue.
It wasn't considered valuable for a beautiful woman to be intelligent then–still today it's best to let the man play smartest boy around. Don fell in love with her, made his choices, seemed fine with them. I don't think I heard him complain directly about the commute once in the series.
Betty made a decision to play the game, not knowing it was rigged against her. I'd say she still thought she could win consistently up until she found out about Bobbie, and occasionally entertained again after, as in Rome. But she's waking up.
Women who are against Betty–who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having 'Very Special Problems'–are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn't have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive. Real women had kids they never should have, real women learned that a beautiful woman was prettier still with her mouth shut. And if it's not supportive of problems that real women faced in the early 60s…what is it?
Born in 1948, I understand the problems of real women dating back to the 1950's. But the women I remember (like my mother) were of another social class. Definitely not Main Line.
Personally, I found too many other characters neglected last season in order to paint a picture of suburban ennui. If the intention was to make the viewer feel Betty's boredom personally, I surely did. I hope we can see more of the others next season.
Yes, Poor Betty deserves my pity. But what about Carla, Joan & Peggy? Not to be classist, Mona & Trudy dealt with some real problems. Not to be sexist–what about Sal?
See–I made a post without casting aspersion on other posters. I wouldn't mind being Medieval, but my Middle English isn't very good. (I don't remember the Wife of Bath complaining much; maybe Betty's pilgrimage to Reno will open her eyes. Pray for a miracle!)
"Women who are against Betty–who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having ‘Very Special Problems’–are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn’t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive."
Right on.