Don has never told Betty he loved her
Not on camera anyway. In A Night to Remember, she said he didn’t, and he said “I do, all the time.” In the Gypsy and the Hobo he said that Anna reminded him he loved her. But we have never seen him look Betty in the eyes and tell her “I love you,” or even say it when kissing her on the cheek when he leaves in the morning or comes home at night. Ever.
For that matter, we’ve never seen Betty say “I love you” to Don. Her people being Nordic may be part of it.
In the ongoing discussion about the demise of the Draper’s marriage, I’ve never seen this specifically brought up, and it’s clearly part of the picture.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:30 am
Actually, in a “Night to Remember” he follows up his “all the time” comment with “I love you, Bets. I do. And I love the children. I don’t want to lose all this.” He also signs his letter in “Meditations in an Emergency” with “I love you, Don.”
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:51 am
Sally: Why can’t Daddy have salt?
Betty: Because we love him.
Betty is not so ‘Nordic’ as people say.
Personally I don’t find the Draper marriage that complex. Obviously they were in love in the beginning. After nine years of family life they will care about each other. But their marriage was built on a lie, strewn with betrayals and suffocating both of them. The healthiest thing to do was to seperate. Now they can try to be better parents.
In real life, I don’t really see saying “I love you” as proof of love. It’s just words. Lots of people say it who don’t mean it. Lots of people who ARE in love don’t feel the need to say it.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Interesting and great topic Deborah. Saying “I love you: is difficult to say for some people. Not for me – not now – I however had to learn to say it – and now I say it often to those I care about. You never know the last time you will see someone you love. (I did not learn this until well into my 5th decade)
This reminds me of Joan and Roger.
There was a scene in the first season – right after Roger had his heart attack and they called Joan in to put make-up on him so he would not look so pale in an important meeting. It was the first time the two had been alone since his attack. He looked at her and said there is something – I need to tell you. There was a pause and she looked at him – and I know she was wanting to hear those words. What he said instead was “you are the best piece of ass – I have ever had” or something like that. The look on her face was so painful – (being objectified like that) I know that is why she decided to go on without him. He could have had her in that moment and it was compeletly over his head. Just like it is over Don’s head.
IMHO – of cousre
when she was upset about the death of Marilyn Monroe – Something like “one day you will lose someone you care about. etc.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
One thing to remember, possibly for a future main page post about the “demise of the Draper marriage”: Betty, preparing for all intents and purposes to fly to Reno to establish residency for the quick dissolution of her marriage, still has her wedding ring on when Don calls her. Not something you do if you’re absolutely through.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Thanks for filling in my quotes, folks.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
#2 – I have to disagree (the wonderful thing about opinions!). Betty saying that Don can’t have salt “…because we love him” is not the same as looking squarely at someone and saying “I love you”.
For most, there’s a certain courage that it takes to admit that to a person, and a level of trust. Betty’s relationship with her own mother and Don’s with his father, combined with knowing that he was NOT conceived out of love, don’t provide the trust for either one of them to say that to each other. Of course they are passing this lack-of-trust straight on to Sally, the next in the line of Bitter Drapers.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
It was never said in my household growing up. I’m not big on using it either. As I tell folks “I put a roof over your head and food in your belly – that proves it”…ha.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
This always bothered me about them…have we ever seen them say it to the children, either? I think Don said something about it when they told the kids they were getting divorced, and in “A Night to Remember,” of course.
“I love you” was always important in my family. As kids we didn’t go to bed without saying goodnight to our parents, and I still call almost every day and end every conversation with “I love you.”
I think Betty’s “because we love him” was heartfelt and meant to show Don that he has something to live for, and take care of himself for. She switched immediately from angry to concerned when she found out he was taking medication for his blood pressure, and I think she cared about him very much. In my view, it was Don’s coldness to Betty, not just the affairs, that turned her so completely off.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:17 pm
#6 *shrugs* I thought Betty’s line about the salt was as romantic as the Drapers get. It moved me slightly more than Don’s expressions of love listed in #1, simply because Betty was worried for Don’s condition while Don was begging to be allowed to come home. Though in both cases it could be said the Drapers feared to lose the security of their marriage.
not the same as looking squarely at someone and saying “I love you”
What examples do we have of this on the show? There’s Pete telling Peggy he loved her, looking her right in the eye, but many fans have said that Pete’s love for Peggy was deluded, that he only loved an idealised version of Peggy that he thought he knew. Adversely Pete seems to struggle with saying “I love you” to Trudy, yet in spite of this, the Campbells marriage is growing stronger and more intimate than any other marriage on the show. Words aren’t everything. Sometimes the Charleston says it all.
Then there’s Roger who told Mona he loved her when he thought he was dying, even though he’d just been fooling around with those young twin sisters. People can say “I love you” out of fear instead of courage. I think that is often the case with the Drapers. Their life in Ossining was their safe haven. They feared losing that even when they both knew their marriage was crumbling.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
People can say “I love you” out of fear instead of courage.
True, falafel. And we are getting a good look at a time when people played it a bit closer to the vest than they do now.
My own very reserved dad — who was still, in his way, more emotionally available to me in my childhood than my mother was (some men just can’t hide how they feel) — did not come out and say those three words to me until I was in my twenties.
I do remember my mother writing that she loved me, in a letter all parents were told to write to their children, the year I got confirmed with the rest of my eighth-grade class (I was raised Catholic). Mom wrote it for Dad and herself, and the novelty of the emotion in that letter took me by surprise. I cried.
I was 13. Tough year.
In the years after that, Mom said those words all the time — but by then they had entered the template communication we kids created with each other. One of us left for college, or a year abroad, and all of a sudden the I-love-you’s were everywhere. Or we’d be home for the holidays, all in the kitchen together and cooking; you couldn’t move for the I-love-you’s.
Dad would stand in the kitchen with us. Laughing. He loved being with his children, always. Still does.
He never had to say it, you see? We knew.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Didn’t Don sign his letter with ILY? Regardless, they aren’t very demonstrative people. It’s just a style. Betty doesn’t say it either. Frankly, when she brings it up to Don in the bathrobe scene, it was almost like it was the first time she thought of it.
I don’t think saying it means much in the context of Draperville.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm
#9 – fair enough, and well-said on your part.
#11’s comment: “I don’t think saying it means much in the context of Draperville.” Maybe not, in the absence of those words. However, I think if it *was* said, you could knock everyone over with a feather.
Many good points have been written here, and the lack of those three words makes me look at Matt Weiner and wonder if that’s a reflection from his own childhood? Some of you have said that your households were the same. I can’t think of anyone saying “i love you” directly to anyone in all 39 episodes….
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 pm
#12 said: “I can’t think of anyone saying “i love you” directly to anyone in all 39 episodes…”
Pete did, to Peggy in “Meditations in an Emergency.”
Can anyone remember any more?
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pm
“In real life, I don’t really see saying “I love you” as proof of love. It’s just words. Lots of people say it who don’t mean it. Lots of people who ARE in love don’t feel the need to say it.”
I agree. In fact, I’m reminded of that song from “MY FAIR LADY” called “Show Me”:
”
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Don’t talk of stars burning above;
If you’re in love, Show me!
Tell me no dreams filled with desire.
If you’re on fire, Show me!
Here we are together in the middle of the night!
Don’t talk of spring! Just hold me tight!
Anyone who’s ever been in love’ll tell you that
This is no time for a chat!
Haven’t your lips longed for my touch?
Don’t say how much, Show me! Show me!
Don’t talk of love lasting through time.
Make me no undying vow. Show me now!
Sing me no song! Read me no rhyme!
Don’t waste my time, Show me!
Don’t talk of June, Don’t talk of fall!
Don’t talk at all! Show me!
Never do I ever want to hear another word.
There isn’t one I haven’t heard.
Here we are together in what ought to be a dream;
Say one more word and I’ll scream!
Haven’t your arms hungered for mine?
Please don’t “expl’ine,” Show me! Show me!
Don’t wait until wrinkles and lines
Pop out all over my brow,
Show me now!”
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Always remember that this is a show about liars.
Don says he loves Betty constantly, it is just that he does not use those words. He does not trust them. What he says instead is “whatever you want Betts”. By that he means that he will give her whatever material thing she wants and to him that is love.
Conversely, Betty showed Don that she loved him by having sex with him. One of the earliest, happiest moments that we see of the Draper marriage is of Betty telling Don that she thinks about their sex life constantly. In S3, every time Betty is tempted to stray, she re-affirms her commitment with physical affection. The absence of a spark in a kiss was what convinced her to leave Don.
Three kids and a nice home was the fruit of the love in the Draper marriage. That is the “all this” that they both talk about risking and losing. Sadly, neither of them were really getting what they wanted. They were “talking” past each other.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:58 pm
#13 – LOL….yes, someone mentioned that above. I guess we should clarify by saying “Did anyone say I Love You and actually mean it? And not in a sly, conniving, give-me-what-I-want-when-I-want-it way?”
#15 – good point, a show about liars. Maybe the better question would be “is anyone on the show *not* lying about something?”.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Where the Truth Lies.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:20 pm
It’s true he was never sincere…I forget, did he tell any of his mistresses that he loved them?
I’ll be interested to see if they have Don remarried in season 4 and how that works out.
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
**One thing to remember, possibly for a future main page post about the “demise of the Draper marriage”: Betty, preparing for all intents and purposes to fly to Reno to establish residency for the quick dissolution of her marriage, still has her wedding ring on when Don calls her. Not something you do if you’re absolutely through.**
Maybe she didn’t want gossip spreading through the neighborhood, or she wanted it presumed that she and Henry were married while traveling?
No ring, a new baby, and a man not her husband probably wasn’t a good look back then.
November 23rd, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I think this is another one of those instances in which we are placing our modern norms on another time and place. Today, people walk around all the time saying they love each other. High school girls sign off phone conversations with one another saying “love you.” The word has multiple applications and doesn’t carry the import it once did. I think speech was more precise and more conservative in the late 1950s and early 60s and people didn’t walk around saying it all the time like we expect to hear it now. Remember that one of the things the hippies used to talk about that made people uncomfortable was LOVE!
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Erin, S1, episode 1: Pete to Trudy: “Of course I love you. I’m giving up my life to be with you, aren’t I?”
Oy.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm
All very good points. My thoughts: Betty was clearly looking for “I Love You” in A Night to Remember whether literally or figuratively by Don. She was certainly craving it as far back as that episode. When he replied “I do. I say it all the time” or something like that, I took it to mean not so much that he was giving her those words all the time…but that his actions over the years of their marriage demonstrated that he loved her. I think it would have been very hard for Don Draper aka Dick Whitman to openly and readily say those 3 little words b/c undoubtedly he didn’t hear them growing up, or at least, his flashbacks do not suggest that he was ever told those words. Remember, when he told Betty that the guy Abigail took up with was kind to him? I think he was saying and confessing to Betty that the only affection he received growing up was “kindness” from that man…certainly nothing demonstrating love and certainly never hearing those words. So, I think it is completely understandable that he was unable to say “I Love You” very often or at all given his history.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Those “three little words” are nice to hear, and most people want to hear them from time to time, if not daily. I am not sure that Don ever truly knew Betty, much less loved her. She represented the dream girl from the dream life that he wanted for himself. She must have loved him, though, to marry him over her father’s objections and in spite of Gene’s warning that “he has no people.”
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:07 pm
Did anyone say I Love You and actually mean it? And not in a sly, conniving, give-me-what-I-want-when-I-want-it way?
Whoa…I think Pete’s love for Peggy in that moment is a bit of a misguided fantasy, but I wouldn’t say it was sly and conniving. The context of that scene was about telling the truth. Pete did mean it, even if he had an overly romanticised view of Peggy in his mind. So maybe people have a low opinion of Pete but, like it or not, he’s pretty much the only MM character who has said an honest “I love you” to anyone. I don’t see how that can be invalidated.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I agree that Peter was sincere when he told Peggy he loved her. It is not such a wild delusion, either. They have a lot in common. Both are ambitious, career-oriented, and neither fits neatly into the cameraderie of the office. Though their backgrounds are different, they both have problems relating to their mothers. Each is insecure, in spite of their talents and strengths. At the time, Trudy was not working out for Pete, and he saw Peggy as someone who was more like him and understood him and his work, his goals, his anxieties about getting ahead.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:10 am
No. 19, Jackie, I would expect Betty to wear her ring until she remarries. taking off a wedding ring before divorce is a fairly modern thing. And even now,divorced women are customarily permitted to wear their ring. Princess Diana did until she died, there are many photos of her with it on after she and Charles were dunzo.
I am ambivalent about the “I love you” thing. I know men at work that mumble it at the end of every conversation with their wives or GFs. You can tell they’ve been trained to say it, and that their mind is probably elsewhere.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:57 am
Heh, I think I’d say it, in any number of contexts, to everyone else before saying it to the woman I was having a relationship with. But I’m funny that way.
Oh, and I agree that people then were not quite as emotionally verbal as they are now, especially men. I think then, it was more like, the proof of my love is the life I provide for you, a view that Don has often used in his arguments with Betty.
November 24th, 2009 at 3:34 am
Even if the phrase wasn’t as common, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t expected or meaningful. It was obviously what Betty wanted and expected to hear in “A Night to Remember.”
Maybe the writers purposely stay away from using those exact words because they are so generally overused as the cherry on the “Big Emotional Confession of Love” scene in just about everything else we see (ahem, Grey’s Anatomy)?
November 24th, 2009 at 6:51 am
I agree that Peter was sincere when he told Peggy he loved her. It is not such a wild delusion, either. They have a lot in common. Both are ambitious, career-oriented, and neither fits neatly into the cameraderie of the office.
Yes, I agree Pete/Peggy have a genuine bond of understanding and a lot in common. I just think Pete was a bit naive not to realise how much Peggy had moved on from the days when she had doted on him romantically.
November 24th, 2009 at 8:19 am
In the scene in Shut the Door, Have a Seat where Don wakes up Betty and confronts her about Henry Francis, where Betty says to him “What do you care?” it seems to me that she wants, even just for a moment, for him to tell her he loves her. I don’t know whether, if he told her, it would be enough for her to change her mind, but she wants to hear it. She follows this up by saying “What? That I’ve never been enough for you” I think Betty is incredibly hurt by Don’s infidelity, and wants revenge, and her revenge is leaving him just when he has opened up to her, in the hope that that will hurt him most. At present she isn’t really thinking beyond this.
November 24th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Ruth, that’s an interesting insight.
November 24th, 2009 at 8:56 am
#30. I like the thought too Ruth. Yes, maybe Betty is still looking for that love in her statement: “What do you care?” A statement like a child/or at least a teenager looking for that affirmation of love through jealousy. Very good.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Thanks Deborah. I think Betty was looking for some kind of reaction from Don in that scene. I also think that it is significant firstly, that her initial response to Don when he woke her up was not hostile, and, secondly, that when asked who Henry Francis was, she replied “nobody” and for once, she sounded like she meant it. I’m not sure Betty would have left Don if he hadn’t called her out on Henry. Once he had done so, she felt obliged to follow through.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Suzanne
Just saw your email. Thanks also
November 24th, 2009 at 9:26 am
#30. Listening to some of Matt’s S1 commentries, I get the impression that Betty really wanted a reaction out of Don when she flirted with other men, even if it was a violent reaction. Asking “Are you going to bounce me off the walls?” after the dinner with Roger and the way Betty was fishing for Don’s anger when she mentions letting the salesman into their house. I’d say when Betty doesn’t get enough positive attention from Don she’ll take negative attention rather than no attention at all.
I really loved the Don/Betty confrontation in the finale. I think Betty had been spoiling for a fight and she didn’t blink at Don’s agressiveness. I’d say she was willing to risk domestic violence just to get past Don’s wall of denial. When Don says “You never forgave me…” it is the closest he has come to explicitly conceeding his affairs to Betty. Then the other bitter hometruths about Betty not being a good parent and ultimately Betty having power over Don; “I know all about you.” I don’t think it is so much revengeful. Having that information gives Betty a pertinent reason to end things and gives her power over Don. He can’t lull her or bully her into submission anymore. Betty has something to hold over him. I don’t think it’s spiteful. It’s just a trump card Betty didn’t have before.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I don’t know where to post this and I don’t know if it has already been mentioned somewhere before:
Abigail Whitman and Betty Draper say the exact same thing in the same way: “You’re drunk!”
What could this mean?
November 24th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
#36. That Don was turning into Archie during that confrontation scene; the aggressive sneering drunk. As much Don has tried to distance himself from his brutish dishonest father, I think his biggest fear is turning out like him. And in Don’s darkest moments Don does seem to channel Archie like a self-fullfilling prophecy.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Yeah, well, I got that (oh, I’m so great, no I know that already because I read a lot about it here;-)), I mean what does it mean for how we see or how Don sees Betty after that?
He saw his “mother” say it to his father, and now he saw Betty say it to him, in exactly the same way.
Has Betty/his picture of Betty changed after that for him?
Oh I don’t know.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I agree with all the comments made above that
1. Don never says he loves Betty and
2. Betty would have loved ANY reaction from Don to prove he loved her. Whenever he was jealous, (Roger; Air conditioner guy) he treated her like she was a possession, and it hurt his pride more than he was afraid of losing her. I think she wanted him to beg her to stay in the finale- when he called her at home and agreed to the divorce- I think she was disappointed. I know I was!
He revealed his true feelings in 723 when he said something to the effect that real power was when someone wanted you but couldn’t have you. And she responds sarcastically that she could never understand that! (she had been living that reality their whole marriage)
Thus he never lets her know his true feelings.
Thus he never lets her know the full truth until forced.
Thus he has affairs- he can never be truly committed to a mistress- they can never have all of him.
( I often wonder why he never asked for a divorce since he really never seemed to have feelings for Betty. I think he could have afforded a divorce from Betty to leave her for Rachel, or even Suzanne. It’s almost like he acted in a way to make Betty leave HIM and not the other way around. )
Why does he choose uncompromised power in relationships over true love?
November 24th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Why does he choose uncompromised power in relationships over true love?
Because if he’s truly committed, he can be truly hurt. He needed to hold part of himself away from everyone else (not just Betty, but all his relationships. “You don’t value them”) to protect himself from the pain of rejection. If he never fully gives himself, he can never be fully rejected. And now, having revealed his awful secrets to Betty, his innermost fears are realized. Seeing him for who he really is, she rejects him.
I hope that’s not the lesson he takes from his marriage with Betty in terms of his future romantic relationships with other women.
I do think we saw a huge leap with his other important relationships though — he let himself be vulnerable with everyone (Peggy, Roger, Pete, Lane), admitting that he needed them — and instead of rejecting him, they bonded together with him.
Maybe someday he can be that open and trusting with another women. It’s way too late to repair the damage with Betty.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Don has never revealed himself fully to Betty. He has never really admitted having an affair, or given her any idea why he had an affair or, as I suspect she views it, what she did wrong to make him have an affair, more particularly, what these other women had that she lacked. This seems to be what she has been consistently looking for. Whether deliberate or not, his failure to explain this gives him continuing power over her.
For better or worse, Betty’s self-belief is tied up in her view of her attractiveness to Don, and the knowledge of his affairs, and not just the affairs but the fact that she needs him more than he needs her, not just financially and emotionally but also sexually, devastates her.
To my mind there is a huge contrast between the love scenes with Don & Betty & those with Don & his other mistresses. With Betty, he seems at best to be going through the motions, to keep her happy. Remember the awful Valentine’s day anti-climax (no pun intended!) Don’s initial face when he saw Betty come out of the bathroom was that of a man getting ready to do his duty, her lingerie (which I bet she spent hours planning, buying etc.) being an unnecessary complication rather than a pleasant surprise. You can see him thinking – she’s put all this work in, now I’m going to have to pretend to be really turned on by her. Leading of course to the inevitable..
Even in Rome, which is the scene with the most spark, he is going along with her charade that they just met, and sex is just a part of that. Indeed, when she got the chance to think about it, the very fact of this, that she got the Don Draper treatment, must have really hurt Betty
With the others, particularly Suzanne, there is a real sense that Don needs them desperately, at least at the beginning, I think that if there was any kind of permanent or committed relationship things would change very quickly.
Going back to Don’s failure to tell Betty about his affairs, I don’t know whether or not this is because he finds it too painful to do so, or because subconsciously they are a way of exercising power over Betty by keeping her asking – why? and not telling. He’s not a consciously cruel person except when hurt. I don’t know if, subconsciously, he’s getting pleasure out of being cruel. But the end result is devastating for Betty.
I don’t think Betty is leaving Don because of his background – although she may be seen as a snob in some ways I don’t think that she is attracted to men based on their social status – I would say in many ways,whether she admits it or not, the reverse. I think she is rejecting him in spite of, rather than because, his disclosure of his past, because his disclosure was not full disclosure of the thing that concerns her most – what have these other women got that I haven’t? – but that she would like him to think that this is because of his family background, so that he would be hurt in the same way that she was hurt – in the very spot where he is most vunerable.
However I’m not sure Betty will ever be able by to hurt Don as much as he has hurt her, simply by leaving him, and I think she knows this. To do this she would have to either have a very public affair (which she could probably get away with by threatening to disclose his true identity) or alternatively by disclosing his true identity.
I think some credit must go to her for not taking either of these options, and in this regard I would agree that Betty is not really revengeful, although I think that she wants to hurt Don, there is a limit to what she will do in this regard. This could be because she does not want her own position and that of her children to be affected, but I think ultimately Betty has a kinder heart than she is given credit for.
In answer to the question, does Don tell Betty he loves her – not really, as the mother of his children, as part of the lifestyle he loves – not more. The question is, whether or not, if Don had told Betty he loved her in this way – would he have been lying? Based on his behaviour, I would say, yes, and maybe it is best he didn’t say so. But Don is such a layer of contractions that it is possible deep down, he does love her, but doesn’t realise it.
Unfortunately with Don Draper, it’s his very gorgeousness that makes him so dangerous, that gives him such power to hurt, so much collateral damage caused. Is the Don Draper treatment worth it? Maybe not anymore, not for Betty.
November 24th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Sorry – didn’t see “contractions” creeping in instead of “contradictions”, make of that what you will!!!
November 24th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Ruth- I am totally on the same page as you with my understanding of their marriage. I think she just can’t reach him, or even hurt him.. I think she knew this and just wanted out, sadly. I don’t think she rejected him to hurt him- I think she just realized the futility of staying with someone who doesn’t love or need her. She wanted no drama or revenge, just out.
I kind of relate to her character (I am a housewife too) and I felt a wierd sense of helplessness and emptiness at the finale- I couldn’t appreciate the greatness of the rest of the episode because I saw that there really was never any feeling in his heart for her- he wouldn’t fight for her. How terribly sad.
I really thought the story arc of his repeatedly trying to be a better person (end of season2, birth of Gene, telling Betty the truth…) would have brought about a true redemption, and validate any love for wife and family.
I have to say, the banality of this relationship gone wrong makes me not want to tune in to Mad Men again. Can’t there be any good marriages in the 60’s in New York? I’m a sucker for true love.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
#43
DrMom: “I couldn’t appreciate the greatness of the rest of the episode because I saw that there really was never any feeling in his heart for her- he wouldn’t fight for her.”
My feeling exactly. It is very disappointing, that he seems to have invested so little emotional capital in the relationship. If he cares so little, Betty is best out of there. I hope for her sake though that she does not rush into a serious relationship, never mind marriage, with Henry immediately. Although he seems to care about her as a person more than Don, will this last? And if it does last, and she can’t reciprocate it, could she end up in just as bad a position as with Don? Of course, it may be that Don really loves Betty, but his pride, ego and insecurity stop him showing it. I really doubt it though. We all want to believe the best of Don, but he has not behaved well to Betty in any sense of the word. It’s not the womanizing in itself, it’s the fact he doesn’t really want to be in a relationship with her and won’t come clean about this that I find dishonest. He’s forcing her to break up with him, with all the attendant guilt, blame from Sally and Bobby that she will incur as a result. When it comes to his marriage, Don has shown himself to be a weak & deeply flawed person.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
#43
MrMom: “I have to say, the banality of this relationship gone wrong makes me not want to tune in to Mad Men again. Can’t there be any good marriages in the 60’s in New York? I’m a sucker for true love.”
I had to stop watching MadMen three episodes into Season 1 because I found the Don-Betty relationship too depressing. I only started watching it again in Season 3 (although I read the recaps, primarily for Joan as she always cheered me up). I’ve now caught up with the missed episodes and have been been watching Season 3 in the hope Don will finally realise the value of what he has destroyed with Betty – but I’ve give up hope on this. Can’t really get past Miss Farrell – the scene with Don eating the date nut bread was excruciating. There must be some moment of realization for Don, surely, that he has deeply hurt and damaged, and not just “disrespected” Betty? I appreciate that Don is himself a hurt and damaged person, but still – I am rapidly running out of sympathy for him.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
What I found extraordinary was that Don was not more upset about Betty being involved with Henry. I appreciate that he called her a whore & a bad mother, but still….. Compare this with his reaction to Betty’s yellow bikini in the Maidenform episode…
Could this be because Don does not see Henry Francis as a sexual threat – more as a “life raft”. Earlier in the Maidenform episode there was a scene with Don looking over at Betty and Arthur. There was no direct follow up between Don & Betty in relation to this but I think it influenced his reaction to the bikini. Arthur was younger & posher than Henry & Don may have seen him as more of a threat (both to Don’s ego & sexually). It is also very strange that a man as jealous as Don does not ask Betty if she has been unfaithful or indeed make more of this.
November 24th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Ruth- you are truly a kindred spirit- I just think MW has written no joy in Betty’s life at all… how much can any one person take?
Who cares about beauty, a nice house, a housekeeper, money… if your husband is indifferent to you?
I agree the Suzanne Farrell episodes were just too much to take- I don’t care how sweet and nurturing she was- they met the day Betty had Gene! What a terrible betrayal!
And you are so right about his cowardliness about not ending the relationship himself… he made his apathy and infidelity so obvious, he trasnferred his wanting to escape their life onto her, making her look like the unfaithful spouse. When he called her a whore- that was too much for me!
Why did he ever beg to come back in season 2???
About his character- he is irresitably handsome, unable to give anything in a relationship, he sucks reationships dry, he is a pathological liar, (I actually believed him when he said he hadn’t slept with Bobbi Barrett)… Would you say he’s demonic? Have I missed any of his good points?
November 24th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
#47
Thanks for your kind comments, you put into words in this and your previous comment at #43 exactly my view on Don at present, I really couldn’t have put it better.
Don is actually not a bad workplace colleague – positive points that come to mind – and I’m sure I’m only recalling a small fraction of them – are (i) he chewed the guys out when they were laughing about Freddy peeing his pants (ii) comparatively speaking, he treats women colleagues better than the other men at Sterling Cooper do, I emphasise “comparatively” here. I would say that in the modern workforce he would probably not stand out as much in this regard.
Also, he does provide for Betty on an outward, material level, outwardly speaking he turns up to events, took her father in etc. The difficulty is that there is not much there other than outward appearances.
He may not be able to help himself however. Maybe he does try, but can’t succeed. Why no guilt for failing, however? If he had even looked upset at the end of Season 3, I would feel more sympathetic. Surely he must realise the hurt he has caused to Betty? She’s told him again and again? Surely no one could be that obtuse emotionally?
Betty needs to move on however. I’d like to see her in a good relationship, although she would probably still be vain and a bit of a snob she is not a bad person, she has been very hurt and I would like to see her happy. Not all 60s men could have been that bad. Please, next season, get Betty into a good relationship. I don’t have a major problem with Henry, but he needs to be tried and tested.
I found Ms Farrell very hard to take. All that stuff about how she knew SHE was going to be hurt as a result of the relationship – what about Betty, whose father had just died and who had just had a baby? Silly woman. My theory is that Ms Farrell has a lot of built-up resentment about the prosperous Ossining mothers – and according to outward appearances Betty has the perfect life – and doesn’t see them as persons. I really can’t see why Don gave her the time of day – unless he was looking for a means of escape. Maybe once Betty uncovered his past he figured he wouldn’t need Ms Farrell anymore to escape – Betty’s knowledge of his past would do that for him (although as stated above I don’t think that was the deal-breaker with Betty at all)
November 24th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
#47
drmom: “Would you say he’s demonic?”
Not demonic, just disappointing. He’s like a beautiful box – but there’s nothing inside. No kisses for Betty in this box. He’s taking care not to be marked by any woman.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Ruth: “What I found extraordinary was that Don was not more upset about Betty being involved with Henry.”
That’s human nature, isn’t it? To be threatened by the other lover? If the other one is beautiful, you’re threatened by the beauty. If they’re not beautiful, you were thrown over for a horrible person.
Remember Betty’s fury at finding that Don cheated on her with an “old” woman.
I’m not going to defend Don but he seems to be a character with a gnawing emptiness inside that is filled temporarily by impulsive affairs. He found Betty to be childlike — that was established in the first season.
As S3 wound on, he seemed to struggle between honoring the relationship… and finding a hotter one!
November 24th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Ruth: I just reread what you said and realized I miss the point completely. You said “that Don was NOT more upset.”
I missed one word. Now I can’t delete my last post!
November 24th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
#50
Bluelight: “Im not going to defend Don but he seems to be a character with a gnawing emptiness inside that is filled temporarily by impulsive affairs.”
I agree with this too. Don is a damaged person. The difficulty is that he damages other people too. I suppose a parallel could be drawn with Betty & Sally, Betty is damaged by Don & passes on this damage to Sally. In fairness to Betty she is doing something to break this cycle, though primarily out of concern for herself rather than Sally. Don seems so apathetic.
The affairs are compulsive because he needs them to fill a vaccuum. This ties in to my comment earlier that if any of the affairs developed into long term permanent PRIMARY relationships (as opposed to the long-term bit on the side with Midge) they would cease to fulfill their function & he would end them/create a new Betty type situation.
I think this is true even with Rachel – she is an escape for him. The fact that she is a good person makes us want to think this relationship could last, but would it really? Rachel could easily end up as another Betty, the acknowledged wife/girlfriend, with all the value being in the acknowledgment & not much substance behind this.
Don needs to develop before he can maintain any kind of lasting relationship – I don’t think setting up the new business is enough – something will have to happen to him or in one of his his non-professional interpersonal relationships to change him, or he will have to get some closure on the past. Betty leaving him does not seem to have impacted enough to effect that change – unless there is a delayed reaction.
Have we really seen significant Don Draper character development to date? We have a very subtle character, and we have learnt more about that character, but has the character actually changed and developed over the seasons in the same way that other characters e.g. Betty, Joan, Peggy have? I thought he was going somewhere with the redemption, taking Gene in etc., but with Miss Farrell, & the lack of reaction to the divorce, I’m not so sure. On the other hand, how many of us change and develop over such a limited period of years. And maybe he has changed – it is just not apparent yet. He has made steps forward in his professional life.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
You are right- my take on him was too strong. I guess I’m bitter…
What do you think the story arc will be for Don and Betty now that he’s free, and she has the potential to be loved?
I would like to see Betty evolve as she is in a truly loving relationship- see her appreciate her kids- and be a thorn in Don’s side…
I am also wondering if they will show Gene growing up thinking of Henry as his Dad and not Don.
I think that I would like to play on the idea of “what is true freedom?”- Don has ended up in a more powerful place with his job, and has achieved his much sought over fantasy of escaping from his domestic prison…will he be fulfilled, or haunted by the loss of his kids in his day-to-day life and their and Betty’s adoration of him. (What kind of drama would it be if Don is fulfilled and happy?)
November 24th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
I would not be opposed to the idea of Don & Betty ending up back together, if they could overcome their difficulties but I would have to say that I am not in any way optimistic about this.
As regards Betty, I feel that her difficulties are a bit easier to identify than Don’s. She is insecure & craves reassurance. She needs to take on a project to occupy herself and also mix with people who will give her more confidence. Ossining is a goldfish bowl & she should spread her net wider. She needs to stop blaming herself for the relationship breakdown with Don and realise that no woman, no matter how beautiful, interesting etc. could keep him faithful (or indeed interested in her) for any length of time at this point. In fact she should be giving herself credit for keeping him so long under the circumstances. I think a new relationship with the right person would be good for her – but she has very little experience of men and I think she needs to get more experience (and I don’t just mean sexual experience, but on an emotional level) in order to determine who the right person is. She also needs to be more empathetic, particularly to her children but it would help her with her relationships generally.
As regards Don, we have to see some change in him – I am getting fed up with these repetitive affairs. See previous post.
I know the question has always been: what do women want? but I think what Betty wants is quite clear: love and validation as a person in her own right. The question is, what does Don Draper want?
November 24th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I totally agree that Betty wanted reassurance from Don, and she never got it on an emotional level. I think Don married Betty because she was everything his mother and step-mother were not…soft, well-bred, proper, from an affluent family, etc. She had the class he craved.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Even in the sixties, people threw around the word “love” as in “I love ice cream” and “I love puppies” and “I love Elvis” or whatever. But everyone knows that there are times when “I love you” is very deeply spoken and heartfelt and there are times when it is a throwaway phrase on a par with good-bye and there are other times when it is totally insincere, which is why relationships are so complicated, I suppose. Ha. It is very true that men were expected in the post-war period right up until the Flower Child years to be the strong, silent types who were good providers. They showed their love by making money and giving their wives and children nice homes, expensive cars and country club memberships. Just as soldiers returning from WWII seldom talked about the harshness of war, men of that era did not open up about their feelings. Women were just expected to know. The “real man” was a rugged individualist or a suave charmer, but not a sensitive type who wore his feelings on his sleeve.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:12 am
Really interesting discussion developing here! I don’t see a lot of Draper marriage analysis that is as sympathetic as this towards Betty. So this makes a refreshing change.
I think Don married Betty because she was everything his mother and step-mother were not…soft, well-bred, proper, from an affluent family, etc
The episode ‘Maidenform’ got me thinking that both Don and Pete suffered from the Madonna-whore complex, especially when learning that this complex usually develops in men who were raised by cold distant mother figures, which both Don and Pete were.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna-whore_complex
I think we’ve seen both Don and Pete treating their wives as mother figures while seeking sexual fulfillment in their extramarital affairs. When Betty wanted to be a model again it was Don who persuaded her to go back to the mother role he preferred her in. Don wasn’t turned on by the sexy black underwear Betty bought for Valentines day and he was appalled to see her in the yellow bikini. This was around the time Don was enjoying his “bad” sexual relationship with Bobbi Barrett.
If Don had been projecting his Madonna-whore complex onto Betty, then the bedroom confrontation is the moment when Don tears down his own illusions – telling Betty she is a bad mother, then demoting her to a whore. Even his sneering line “You’re good and everyone else is bad” seems like Don is bitter, because Betty was supposed to be good. She failed in the ideals that Don placed on her. And that seems to be the moment when Don stops fighting for his marriage and ends it himself.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:39 am
“I’m not sure that’s true.”
Don is impaired in his ability to love, we know that. But he pushed himself very hard to love Betty. From The Wheel forward, he had a real desire to change. He tried to be good. He provided what he thought Betty wanted, he pleaded to come back, he was good to her throughout her pregnancy, he took her father in despite their antipathy for each other because it was what she needed, he took her to Rome, he begged, he insisted, he demanded. He has very limited resources in relationships and he used all of them. And then he found out she was having an affair (which, physical consummation or not, she was). He must have felt the perfect fool.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am
When Betty wanted to be a model again it was Don who persuaded her to go back to the mother role he preferred her in.
I just re-watched that episode recently, and I didn’t see it that way at all. I thought Don liked the idea of Betty becoming a model again and in fact was kind of turned on by it, although obviously he had mixed feelings about her being used by McCann to snare him. But I thought he was pretty supportive of her venture (as supportive as I’ve seen him be towards Betty anyway.) It was only when she faced rejection from McCann and decided she didn’t have it in her to do what it would take to launch her career again, that Don let her save face gently by re-affirming her role as mother & wife.
Looking back, I’m not sure Don ever really loved Betty. That is the central tragedy of their marriage. I think he thought he was supposed to love her, but in the end “the heart wants what it wants.” You can’t MAKE yourself love someone, no matter how much you think you should or how deserving the other person might be of it.
In ‘Six Month Leave’, when Don admits to Roger that he’s staying at the Roosevelt, Roger tries to offer him sympathy. Don, in a moment of openness, says what’s really in his heart, although maybe he didn’t realize it at the time. He said he wasn’t unhappy, he was relieved. Relieved!
‘Relieved’ is not what you feel when you’re fighting with the person you truly love. Relieved is what you feel when you’ve been released from the prison of a relationship where there is no love.
That explains in part why he went from affair to affair. He was still looking to fill the emptiness inside that should have been filled with love, but wasn’t.
I think that’s why he let Betty go at the end. On some level (conscious? subconscious?), he accepted the fact that he does not love her, and he never will. But when he comes out of the room and sees his new company,he has a beaming smile on his face. He is relieved, and he is free.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:24 am
The episode ‘Maidenform’ got me thinking that both Don and Pete suffered from the Madonna-whore complex, especially when learning that this complex usually develops in men who were raised by cold distant mother figures, which both Don and Pete were.
I think that cold mutha is the history of patriarchal culture.
November 25th, 2009 at 10:48 am
I think that Don & Betty were very much in love when they married. Because they were two beautiful young people who were hot for each other; that is one kind of love. And Don appreciated Betty’s “good” family. By which he did not mean “Main Line”–he thought she came from a nice, normal background & could create a good home for their eventual children.
He proved his love by giving up night school & going to work at Sterling Cooper–because he couldn’t support her on what the furrier paid him to write copy. He’d probably turned down Roger’s first offer because he really didn’t want to devote his life to Advertising. But he changed his mind after meeting Betty. And getting her attention with an expensive fur–a girl has needs.
So they got a cute little apartment in the city–with time, they would get to know each other. Maybe Betty’s upbringing hadn’t been that perfect, after all–what did she really want out of life? How many kids? When? Where would they live? Maybe Don would have revealed more about his own background. In those days, people didn’t shack up until the thrill was gone–or until they decided to marry. They married & then grew toward a more mature love–if they were lucky.
But Betty got pregnant very quickly. Birth control was dicey in those days & she was probably inexperienced. I seem to remember they moved to Ossining before Sally’s birth. Whose idea was that? Did Don, the son of a hardscrabble farmer, get the inspiration for a Colonial Revival in the ‘burbs? Betty’s parents were both alive & well. Her mother, preaching the conventional life that had probably not even made her happy & Gene, looking on Don with disapproval.
Poor, disappointed Betty, her wings clipped so young. In a few years, she might have been strong enough to point out to her parents that babies could live in the big city; the kid wouldn’t need schooling for years. No, she went along with the plan for the big house filled with furniture & the two cars. Don’s role was to work hard in the city–at a job he didn’t love–& bring a big paycheck home to the big house in the ‘burbs. Because he thought it would make Betty happy. And she thought so, too.
But it didn’t work out.
Of course Don was at fault for having affairs when Betty got caught in the suburban cage she’d created. But he didn’t marry her as part of a Machiavellian scheme to get a pretty corporate wife & then stick her in the suburbs.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
#28
Deborah: From The Wheel forward, he had a real desire to change. He tried to be good. He provided what he thought Betty wanted, he pleaded to come back, he was good to her throughout her pregnancy, he took her father in despite their antipathy for each other because it was what she needed, he took her to Rome, he begged, he insisted, he demanded. He has very limited resources in relationships and he used all of them. And then he found out she was having an affair (which, physical consummation or not, she was). He must have felt the perfect fool.
Deborah, Don was doing great this season (stewardess aside) until he met Miss Farrell. I know Betty doesn’t know about her, but still. That was a serious affair which was physically consummated. It trumps Betty/Henry in my book.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Ruth, Don went to Suzanne for the first time after he and Betty got back from Rome. There was something very final about the way she rejected his gift. It was like, they’d had this glorious time, and she still hated their life. I think at that point part of him gave up.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Betty loves Don. The last telephone call of 3-13 proves it. She lied at the end of season three when she said she didn’t love him any more. When he calls from the new “office,” just watch her facial and body expressions as he tells her he’s staying at a hotel, that he will not fight her in the divorce, she was sorry and shaken. When he said he wouldn’t fight her she didn’t cheer. She really wanted Don to change, to be the husband she deserves, to be a straight-up, open, loving man who takes care of her needs for love and security. She wanted him to say to her what he had said to Anna a year before: I have been wrong. She wanted him to say, “I’m changing my ways because I see how precious you are to me. Test me and see if you can trust me, please.” She got none of that from him. The most awful irony is that Don said to her, “I hope you get what you always wanted.” Instead, Betty was getting anything but that. She wanted the husband she thought she was getting at her wedding. She got either nothing or a stranger. Betty also certainly did not want to be on that airplane, either. But she had no choice and had to Reno right now before she weakened as she had consistently done before.
Too bad that Don’s little boy broken heart that he’s hiding behind a big wall won’t let him do what he must in order to save the marriage.
November 26th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
#Deborah
You may be right. I’ve been watching the Don-Betty relationship this season from Betty’s perspective. I will now have to (great excuse!) go back & watch it again focusing on it from Don’s perspective. Don may well have regarded his efforts as unappreciated by Betty. I just found the whole Suzanne relationship very strange – it was almost like he was hypnotised or bewitched. On your reasoning, Don doesn’t feel guilty about the break-up because he regards it as Betty’s fault, he has given her everything she wanted (he thinks) and she still isn’t happy.
But when you say Don “gave up” – do you mean that he gave up on loving Betty, or on feeling obliged to act like he loved her? I think the latter. If he loved Betty, he would be devastated at the break-up even if he had no reason to feel guilty – hell, he would feel guilty even if he had no reason to feel guilty.
Although he has lied about so many factual things, Don doesn’t I think lie to other people about his feelings towards them – that’s what makes people as different (or similar?) as Conrad Hilton or Pete Campbell reallly value his approval.
I think Don is unable to say clearly that he loves and needs Betty, despite the fact that in almost every episode she gives him an opportunity, indeed often deliberately sets up an opportunity for him to do so, because deep down he doesn’t believe that he does – although this being Madmen, maybe he is yet to find out he is wrong in this belief -or maybe not.
So much to look forward to in Season 4!!
November 27th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Ruth, very perceptive about Don’s honesty with his feelings. I think he “gave up” on ever being able to succeed as a husband; at least as Betty’s husband. “Nothing I do is enough” is a terrible feeling.
November 27th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
<>
Interestingly, these are nearly the same words that Betty says to Don, alluding to his affairs. “I was never enough”, or something along those lines (does anyone remember the exact wording?
I think neither of them feel really SEEN by the other partner, and therefore feel alone and unappreciated. Each tries as hard as he/she can to do what they think they are supposed to do (Don works hard and is a good provider; Betty takes care of her figure, dresses beautifully, and presents a lovely home), yet feels the other takes this hard work for granted. So they each try harder (Don bringing home raises; Betty redecorating the house), and it STILL doesn’t work. Nothing either of them does is enough.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
#67
Celia
This is the dialogue in the bedroom scene between Don & Betty in Shut the Door. Of course the dialogue as set out by me below can in no way do justice to the change in tones between lines, the emphasis on particular words, or the characters’ facial expressions. Betty’s “never been enough” remark comes right in the middle (right at the heart of?) this exchange.
D: Wake up.
B: Ssh…he’s sleeping.
D: I don’t care. Who the hell is Henry Francis?
B: [long pause] [whispers] No one.
[Don pulls her out of bed]
B Stop it, stop it.
D: Who the hell is he?
B: Why do you care?
D: Because you’re good, and everyone else in the world is bad.
B You’re drunk
D: You’re so hurt, so brave, with your little white nose in the air. All along you’ve been building a life raft.
B: Get out.
D: You never forgave me.
B: Forgave what? That I’ve never been enough
D: [shouting] You got everything you ever wanted. Everything. And you loved it. And now I’m not good enough for some spoiled mainline brat
B: [shouting] That’s right.
D: You won’t get a nickel. And I’ll take the kids. God knows they’d be better off
B: I’m going to Reno and you’re going to consent and that’s the end of this. Don’t threaten me. I know all about you
D: You’re a whore
Baby cries
B: I want you out of the house
November 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I have a hard time with this:
“Ruth, very perceptive about Don’s honesty with his feelings. I think he “gave up” on ever being able to succeed as a husband; at least as Betty’s husband. “Nothing I do is enough” is a terrible feeling.”
Don, a schmuck we’re led to believe was out whoring on the very night his daughter was born, decides he’s going to do what, on a surface-level treat his wife right for nine months out of a nine year marriage, one’s he shat on and lied through the whole time, right for a little while and we’re supposed to what, pity him when she still rejects him? Really?
November 30th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Really.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Then I guess I side with Ruth, here. I don’t feel bad for sociopaths who choose to keep setting themselves up for self-fulfilling prophecies.
November 30th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Jimmy – I don’t think Don was a good husband & I don’t feel pity for him over the breakdown of his marriage, though I suspect I would if he were more visibly upset – but I wouldn’t rank him as a sociopath by any stretch of the imagination. See comments on demonic above. He’s a flawed character with most of his flaws being in his personal rather than his professional relationships & that’s what makes him interesting to watch. A very difficult man to be married to, though, without a doubt, and I do feel sorry for Betty.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Well, to quote from Woody Allen:
Irmy: I slept with someone for it. Does that makes me a whore?
Kleinmann: [Referring to the money he's holding] This?
Irmy: Just one person. Does that make me a whore?
Kleinmann: Well, no, only by the dictionary definition.
Don’s not a sociopath only if we disregard what the word actually means. He may not be a Manson, but he is on the sociopath spectrum.
But I totally side with you about Betty. The guy tried to tend only to her most surface of needs (because he chose to never really try to know her; she was “a child” and that was as far as he went) during her preganacy and then somehow we are supposed to feel bad for him when his wife rejects him. I just don’t get it.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Still don’t think he is a sociopath. But it’s nice to see Betty being appreciated.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Like I said, I’m only going by what the word means.
Best,
Jimmy
December 1st, 2009 at 8:42 am
#64- I totally agree with your assessment. Ithink she was devestated he wouldn’t fight for her. I think that in season 2 when he tried to repeatedly come back- he gave her every OTHER reason- You need me, You are grieving… – except – I’m sorry, I love you…. And when he wrote that- he never really said it- she let him back , however tentatively.
I know I have said this before- but I think that it will be interesting to see how he acts with the Total Freedom he has been craving. He always fantasized about walking away from Betty and their marriage- from the first episodes of season 1. He was too afraid to actually go through with it openly and honestly.
I think Don has maneuvered Betty into a position where SHE HAD to leave him. I think he was too cowardly to do it himself, but neglected her, lied to her, disappeared on her, and cheated on her so that any woman would look to an escape hatch- and she gets to look like the adulterer and bad guy, even though it has been him all along. He even gets to call her a whore- what does that make him?
But my central idea is – what now- when you are “free”. Is this authentic freedom? With your kids wrecked and damaged, your home not yours, your bed will be a revolving door? Is it truly freeing to escape the people who have committed to love you?
I have to say it was disturbing to see him land, not only on his feet, but is a position of power and dominance…
December 1st, 2009 at 9:27 am
I’ll be glad to see Don without Dull Betty simpering in spoiled hatred in the ‘burbs. Well, she may still be there–but now she can blame Henry. And we probably won’t have to have so many more interesting characters neglected to focus on her Very Special Problems.
When the show began, Betty was having physical symptoms that led her to a shrink. He wasn’t very good–but had the sense to finally ask if she was angry with her mother. Oh, no! She had loved her mother! Evil Don was preventing her from mourning the old bat. Then she found out he was violating her confidentiality & reporting the sessions to Don. Rather than firing the shrink & yelling at Don, she passively aggressively began using the sessions to get what she wanted out of him. And avoided the awkward question that might have gotten to the root of her hatred of the suburban life that Don had financed for her.
It’s too bad that Sally was conceived so early. Perhaps Don & Betty could have grown up & grown together if they’d had a few years as a young couple in the city. Would Don have opened up about his background? Would they have discussed whether his talents might take them elsewhere? Hey, frozen Betty might even have begun to express some of those “Thoughts” she boasted of in her letter to Henry. Although she apparently got through four years at Bryn Mawr with the absolute minimum of intellectual effort. Then she got pregnant & fled to the suburbs; her parents were glad to get her out of that dump in the city. And Don kept working at a job he didn’t love, with a long commute taking him to a big house filled with stodgy furniture & a Betty sinking into suburban numbness.
I look forward to seeing Don & his colleagues trying to make sense of the 60’s next season. Learning, growing & working together.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Bridgette, you speak and speak, and yet your words boil down to the fact that Don’s tall, dark, and blameless, and his ice queen of a wife won’t get behind his bachelor-husbandom. How medieval you are.
December 1st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Jimmy, just a little blurb from our Comments Policy while I carefully consider my next step:
In general, stick to discussions of things related to the show, rather than things related to our blog, other blogs, or other Basketcases, and you won’t get into trouble. This isn’t a schoolyard. If you brawl, we’ll start by deleting comments, not commenters, but we make no promises about the shortness of our tempers. Play nice, share your toys, and don’t kick sand.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:42 pm
I don’t get if that’s supposed to be a threat or not, but medieval is about as nice a thing as can be said for a post that is as lacking in show knowledge and is as misogynistic as brigette’s.
I mean, I don’t hate women, and call them dull and simpering and spoiled when that’s clearly not the case, but that’s just me. C’est la vie, I suppose. Maybe you have a different view on how we should speak about women.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:00 pm
The difference is, one comment discussed a character on the show, while your attack was on the person making the comment.
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:12 am
Look, at most forums where I go, like Penny-Arcade, people do a good job of policing themselves almost to the point where mods are not needed. And part of that includes calling out trolls, which include folks who make blanket misogynistic statements about characters and get some of the most basic facts about a show wrong. People also get called out when they say extremely morally questionable things, like that aforementioned misogynist fest about Betty. In other words, when someone walks into a thread and takes a dump in it, the person who dumps gets their back ridden, not the people who find that behavior abhorrent. I don’t know why it works the opposite here, but now I know for the future.
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Jimmy, what part of not-B’s post was lacking in show knowledge? I missed that.
It’s not misogynistic to dislike a particular woman. In fact, I would say it is the opposite of that. “Misogynists” would lump ALL women into a category, and despise them not because of the kind of people they are as individuals, but because they are, simply, women. There is no one way for “how we should speak about women” if women are to be treated as individuals.
not-Bridget is responding to a very specific woman, Betty, and reacting to her based on everything we’ve seen over 3 seasons of MM. You can disagree with her take on Betty (lord knows we’ve had more vehement disagreements here at BoK about Betty than any other character on the show) but it’s not “misogynistic” to not like her.
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Jimmy, hi. Big Penny-Arcade fan here too, though I’m always nervous about actually speaking up.
Of course Betty has no emotional vocabulary, of course she isn’t going to be able to address the anger at her mother. She can’t address any anger directly at its source until second season. Some people are repressed. 90% of the characters on the show, I’d argue.
It wasn’t considered valuable for a beautiful woman to be intelligent then–still today it’s best to let the man play smartest boy around. Don fell in love with her, made his choices, seemed fine with them. I don’t think I heard him complain directly about the commute once in the series.
Betty made a decision to play the game, not knowing it was rigged against her. I’d say she still thought she could win consistently up until she found out about Bobbie, and occasionally entertained again after, as in Rome. But she’s waking up.
Women who are against Betty–who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having ‘Very Special Problems’–are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn’t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive. Real women had kids they never should have, real women learned that a beautiful woman was prettier still with her mouth shut. And if it’s not supportive of problems that real women faced in the early 60s…what is it?
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Born in 1948, I understand the problems of real women dating back to the 1950’s. But the women I remember (like my mother) were of another social class. Definitely not Main Line.
Personally, I found too many other characters neglected last season in order to paint a picture of suburban ennui. If the intention was to make the viewer feel Betty’s boredom personally, I surely did. I hope we can see more of the others next season.
Yes, Poor Betty deserves my pity. But what about Carla, Joan & Peggy? Not to be classist, Mona & Trudy dealt with some real problems. Not to be sexist–what about Sal?
See–I made a post without casting aspersion on other posters. I wouldn’t mind being Medieval, but my Middle English isn’t very good. (I don’t remember the Wife of Bath complaining much; maybe Betty’s pilgrimage to Reno will open her eyes. Pray for a miracle!)
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“Women who are against Betty–who want her to step off the screen, want her to stop having ‘Very Special Problems’–are probably never going to identify these traits as anti-feminist. But to chalk Betty up as a dumb, sullen, cold blonde who couldn’t have thoughts, if she has no one who cares about them, is definitely not supportive.”
Right on.