Not-So-Live-Blogging “The Grown-Ups”
Instant classic. We debated all season whether it would even get addressed. Not only was it, but the style, elements of surprise, self-reference, verisimilitude and historical accuracy were, er … dead-on.
And now, made with milk, not water … Not-So-Live-Blogging “The Grown-Ups”.
CAMPBELL’S OFFICE
Wow. This is the first time I see the similarity to Oswald … never could before. And the rifle. Missed that too.
PRYCE’S OFFICE
Campbell’s really good in his scenes with Pryce. Like in Out of Town when we first see them together. His language is always measured, deliberate.
STERLING’S HOUSE
Okay, right off the bat: this is Talia Balsam’s episode. She’s so perfect and great to watch here. Love this scene top to tail.
Margaret: “You always take her side.”
Margaret Sterling may be the only character on Mad Men that isn’t multi-dimensional. She’s 100% brat.
“You’re babbling like a little fool. Go to your room.”
“What?”
“You heard me. You want to act like a child, I’ll treat you like one.”
This is where the episode title begins to be relevant. Lots of parent-child-type conversations.
ON THE PHONE
“Put your mother on.” Again.
Love how Margaret stomps to her room, like a teen.
The 15-second conversation between Roger and Mona is the best scene they’ve ever had together. Wonderful – Roger’s laugh.
ROGER’S APARTMENT
“Jane! Get in here, now!” Now who’s the parent and who’s the child?
“You’re not good, because you didn’t listen to me.” They’re not equals.
“Everything you do is for her,” echoes “You always take her side.”
“I live here and I get to do what I want to do, so stop trying to tell me that you know better.” Written, and delivered, to sound like a child.
Locks herself in the bathroom. The entire confrontation plays out this way.
CAMPBELL’S APARTMENT
“All I saw was his frog-like mouth flapping.” That’s a line you look forward to delivering when you see it on the page.
DRAPER’S HOUSE
Ahh, Don’s taking care of Gene in the middle of the night. See, everything’s going to be fine.
DUCK/PEGGY ON THE PHONE
“Pee-wee, Sweetheart, it’s been three weeks!” Hey, now!
“They’re a coupla homos.” Half-right.
CRANE’S OFFICE
Love how they create a nonsense reason for Pete (or anyone) to enter Harry’s office in order to show them missing the newsflash. Listen to this dialog – it’s beautifully meaningless.
HOTEL ELYSEE
What better way to honor the memory of JFK than a midday shag in a smoky hotel room. By the way, now’s as good a time as any to mention … what’s Bud Campbell’s wife’s name? Judy. That’s right, Judith Campbell. If you don’t know, Google her.
CRANE’S OFFICE
Love that they switch Cronkite off.
BULLPEN
The lady on the phone has a sweat stain in her pit. Because it’s hot.
DRAPER’S HOME
This may be my favorite scene all season. Can more be happening in such a small space, with hardly any dialog?
Carla walks in. “They just said he died.”
“Oh Lord.” She glances up. This is a black housekeeper in the middle the Civil Rights Era losing a president who was the first since Lincoln to acknowledge the treatment of her people.
Cut to the television screen. The man is talking. Actually three of them. Old, wise newsmen. The grownups.
Carla lights up. She sits down next to Betty. She’s not an employee. Everything’s changed.
Sally puts her arm around Betty, who didn’t know she was there. She’s comforting her mother because she knows that otherwise her mother would not acknowledge her existence.
This is so brilliant. Cinematic.
HOTEL ELYSEE
It’s been mentioned before, but it’s so true … Peggy will probably have to lie for the rest of her life when she’s asked where she was when she found out JFK was shot. But here’s the thing: Duck probably won’t.
She’s got the just-got-fucked hair.
“I gotta call my kids.” Duck’s a grown up.
DRAPER’S HOME
“Take a pill and lie down.” Ayayayaaaah.
Don comes in and in 10 seconds does what didn’t occur to Betty all day. He tries to explain to his kids what’s going on and what’s happening. Even if his words are a bit wacky (“We’re all going to be sad for a little bit. And then on Monday there’s going to be a funeral.” – as if you stop feeling bad after the funeral), he’s taking his role seriously.
THE NEXT DAY
I never say this: God, look at what Betty’s wearing. That is a housecoat.
The Drapers are going.
CAMPBELL’S APARTMENT
Trudy looks fine.
They decide not to go. I look at this, especially in juxtaposition to the Drapers, as a microcosm of the beginning of the counter-culture. The younger generation is looking around, adding things up, realizing it’s all bullshit, and defying what’s expected of them.
MARGARET’S WEDDING
“Three months after Roosevelt died we bombed Hiroshima. That’s how we got over it. I say we hang Lee Oswald, and then we take care of Texas. Hell, the whole South.” This guy is Mona’s date? It actually sounds a lot like how people talked after 9/11.
Ohh, that look between Don and Roger. Don knows he could comfort Roger right now and he’s letting him drown.
Enter: Henry. Wait, who’s that tasty peach on his arm? Oh, it’s his daughter. Whew.
KITCHEN
LOVE this. Ken, the guy with the rising career, goes back to the boss’s reception.
MARGARET’S WEDDING
Personally, I’d love it if they found a way to have Roger give a speech at some point every episode.
“If you can make it through a day like today, marriage is a cakewalk.” Oof.
Don: Everything’s going to be fine.
Betty: How do you know that?
Time for the old Draper go-to move. The look, the kiss … she’ll faint right there in his arms. FAIL!! Try the Vulcan Mind Trick next time. Deep shit, Donny.
STERLING’S APARTMENT
He calls Joan. Oh, that blue phone.
Been said many times … their conversations are so real. The only time on the show when honesty is at the core. Hence the blue phone.
“Because there’s nothing funny about this.” Then something funny – Jane’s arm. HA!
I don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if these two never got back together. Not saying it won’t happen, but MW is so intent on not serving the audience in the traditional way, but serving his characters and serving the story (knowing the audience will be gratified in the end) … there’s no real reason for them to get together. Roger’s on in years – he plucked his trophy wife. However it works out, it works out. But Joan’s on a different trajectory with Greg – it could end in two years or in 50. If it’s two, she still may look for Mr. Handsome somewhere else. Ahhh, who knows.
DRAPER’S HOUSE
“What is going on?!?!” That’s all there is.
PARKING LOT
Totally connected this to Glen outside the bank in The Wheel. Great callback.
Roberta – wonderful post on this conversation comparing the two.
“If you search your heart, you’ll know that … I can make you happy.” And the award for saying the perfect thing at the perfect time goes to … Henry Francis of Mount Salem.
I’ve heard some complaints over the movie exchange, but I kind of love it. Also, it’s a great pickup line.
CAMPBELL’S APARTMENT
Pete in the Duck-like turtleneck. Another reward for paying attention.
“Those people don’t care about you. And honestly what’s the difference?” Again, the young vs. old. S-C is old – the new is coming. The payoff, we will learn, comes in the finale.
Not only is Pete ahead of the curve, Trudy’s right there with him. These two are forming a functional marriage. Just don’t let Trudy see all those rape discussion threads from earlier in the season.
DRAPER’S HOUSE
In the car with Henry, they start by talking about the assassination, and move seamlessly into talking about their relationship. Here, Betty is clearly talking about their relationship, and he, looking at the television, responds as if she’s talking about the assassination (“I know it’s painful, but it’s going to pass,”).
S-C OFFICE
Again, a connection between these two.
Lots of commentary that Peggy is fixing the Aquanet creative because of the imagery of the convertible and the four passengers. I wasn’t alive then, but I don’t think the visuals of the assassination came to light until much later. I think it’s an inside reference that we recognize the similarity while the characters are oblivious.
Ohhh, so damn good. The best of the season, to be followed by Ocean’s 11 Shut the Door. Have a Seat.
November 21st, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Really enjoy your not-so-live bloggings
November 21st, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Hey thanks, MD. Love all the great feedback.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:19 am
It’s been mentioned before, but it’s so true … Peggy will probably have to lie for the rest of her life when she’s asked where she was when she found out JFK was shot. But here’s the thing: Duck probably won’t.
She’s got the just-got-fucked hair.
…
DRAPER’S HOME
“Take a pill and lie down.” Ayayayaaaah.
Coop. You’re just too marvelous. Too marvelous for words!
(Yeah, I went for corny. So freakin’ what??)
Understand: I have a 13-year-old, she’s sitting here with like three pounds of kohl on each eye (her new stay-at-home weekend look), and every time I laughed at this screen, she gave me those big dead meerkat eyes.
Like, What? WHAT?!?
She also wanted to know what was making me sad. I told her. I tried to explain how you captured the Carla/Betty scene. There’s this great guy, he does recaps of Mad Men, and he …
Too late. She switches off when she hears those two words. She’s programmed to hate the S-C crowd and all that sail upon it. It’s got her mom, her stepmom, her dad, her sister. All of us but her.
What can a stepmom do? Understand. And I try. Ice cream will help, I think.
Anyway. I love this:
Sally puts her arm around Betty, who didn’t know she was there. She’s comforting her mother because she knows that otherwise her mother would not acknowledge her existence.
And I thank you for it. It’s true, and it’s a good reminder to those of us who have kids. This is why we bother. This is why we drag ourselves away from our first reactions and back to our lives, to those we love, who really do need us.
Off to the Ice Cream Errand.
You’re awesome, Coop.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 am
Umm– that was me.
You know how much I love these, Coop. Thanks for a classic.
November 22nd, 2009 at 8:11 am
Coop, you don’t have to be timely. No rush on “Sit Down” – these just stretch out the season for us.
Not to tempt fate, but assuming Roger has another heart attack, and/or dies, I am waiting for the scene that brings Mona, Jane and Joan together (preferably dressed to the nines in their respective fashions). Two women who knew him and loved him anyway and one who hadn’t a clue but whom he loved anyway.
November 22nd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Roberta did the comparison of the parking lots. I thought it was brill.
November 22nd, 2009 at 9:47 am
I agree, this was a great Talia showcase…Mad Men really has a way in bringing out the best in its actors. She is somebody I had never really thought about until this show, I knew of her because of the Clooney connection, but her work never stood out to me. She really is fabulous…
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
Instant classic
It occurred to me yesterday, noticing all the programming on History Channel et al about the Kennedy assassination, that they could just show this episode instead. It is now how I think of the assassination (and I was alive on 11/22/63 and have the vivid memories of my 6-year-old self going through the real thing.) For all of us who watched this, Matt Weiner has taken over ownership of the JFK assassination in our imaginations (taking it from Oliver Stone, who’s had it since the early 1990’s)
Time for the old Draper go-to move. The look, the kiss … she’ll faint right there in his arms. FAIL!! Try the Vulcan Mind Trick next time. Deep shit, Donny.
I think it was at this moment that I knew the marriage was over. When Don gave her the look and she didn’t respond, all I could think was “These two are total strangers to each other.”
Whether or not Joan and Roger reunite, I repeat what I wrote when I first saw the phone scene: Joan is Roger’s true love. She’s The One. Nobody is going to argue me out of that.
November 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 am
@5 brenda–
the beauty of the NSLB is that Coop has been sporadic, and he was not Basketwriting for season one. So, as we have an incomplete collection, we can look forward to surprise entries of past episodes from any season.
Having just sat down and watched Out of Town, as B. Cooper if the first to point out, it is fascinating how the perspective of subsequent episodes colors your viewing.
Melville, I agree 100% about the historical longevity of the episode, and I believe I said it somewhere. I’ve always said of Mad Men that it will, now and forever, be included anytime there’s a television retrospective/top 10, top 50, top 100 anything, Mad Men will be including. But this episode will burst through the Mad Men walls and make lots of other lists and retrospectives.
And I just don’t see Joan as Roger’s ‘one’. I’m not convinced she isn’t, but I’m not convinced she is. There is so much love and affection and respect and comfort between those two, and sure, there’s heat, but to me it reads as just a great and true friendship.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
There is so much love and affection and respect and comfort between those two, and sure, there’s heat, but to me it reads as just a great and true friendship.
If there’s no heat, then it’s just a deep friendship; but if there’s no affection and respect, then it’s the Drapers.
Even if they don’t get back together, it’s pretty obvious that other people have a high bar to match with each of them. I think it’s pretty obvious that each have settled for what they thought they wanted, but not for the one that made them truly happy and complete.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Anne B,
You need to put up a warning to put down the coffee before reading a post like that. My morning brew went all over the screen…big dead meerkat eyes indeed!
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I don’t know. There are some aspects of this article I found hard to buy.
November 22nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
B. Coops- Thank you! Thank you!
Re the Roger calling Joan after the reception scene:
The first thing I noticed (and I can’t get it out of my head) – he didn’t look up her number, he just dialed it from memory. I don’t think that Joan & her husband live in her old apartment, so it wouldn’t be the phone number from three years previously. She didn’t appear to be too surprised to hear from him – maybe it isn’t unusual for him to call Joan when he needs someone to talk to.
Just thinking.
Anne B, you kill me…
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
I’m happy to see that the writers have given us many views of marriage in the early sixties. Pete and Trudy, Don and Betty, Roger and Mona (then Jane), Sal and Kitty, and Joan and Greg, to name most.
Each pairing is very different, very nuanced, and very important to the whole of Mad Men (and the sixties). I love watching the development of these relationships. Pete and Trudy are becoming grown ups, as many people do in marriage. I’m not so sure about the rest…
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Also, Lane and Rebecca Pryce. Will she adjust to living in New York and her husband’s career move, or will she return to London?
November 22nd, 2009 at 7:40 pm
BornIn50 – I had many the same thoughts throughout “Shut the Door …”
I hope we’ll get a little more of those two and her very British outlook.
November 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Concerning the various marriages, one thing seems to be true of all of them — infidelity — with the possible exception of Joan’s. I say “possible” because we do not know of any infidelity on the part of Joan or Greg, but the potential is certainly there now that he has joined the army and she has returned to work with Roger and the other Mad Men. I agree that Trudy and Pete have worked out their issues about parenthood, the interference by her father and her mother’s expectations, but I wish we had seen more of their methods for gaining this new perspective. Maybe it is just “growing up” but there was a big leap in their relationship that we seem to have missed in which they went from battling about having a child or adopting one and being serenely content with the way things are. Though both Don and Betty were clearly discontent and they seldom communicated on any level, I found her rush into the arms of Henry Francis a bit unrealistic and wonder if January Jones is leaving the show. The way that Don phoned Betty saying he would not fight her in divorce court, and the way Henry insisted that they would not need anything from Don seems to indicate that she is going her way and Don his and never the twain shall meet again, in spite of the children. I do expect him to see the kids from time to time, though, on the show, but it seems Betty may disappear into a new life with Henry. I hope not. I like January Jones and love her beautiful 60s wardrobe. If she is out of Don’s life for good, one wonders if he will settle down at last. I, for one, hope it is not with that mousey little schoolteacher. That may sound cruel, but I don’t see her being the corporate wife as Don forms a new, successful company. Will we like Don as much if he becomes just another struggling business man with no particular way with the ladies and his nose to the grindstone, honorable and upright in every way? Will people still ask WWDDD? What would Don Draper do?
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 pm
sigh.
how many weeks till season 4? aka “are we there yet?”
my son will be home in a few days and I will (supposedly) see my Mad Men S1 dvd at that time. I plan to create my unified theory of all things Mad Men before the beginning of S4.
so, the not-so-live bloggings seem absolutely up-to-the-minute in comparison.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:32 am
Actually, Patti, when Jane says to Joan in MOKH, “Where are you living now,” Joan says “Same old place,” so I think this is Joan’s original apartment, shared with Greg instead of Carol.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 am
“Love how Margaret stomps to her room, like a teen.”
Well, Margaret IS a teen, isn’t she? She couldn’t possibly have been older than sixteen when we first met her in 1960, which would make her nineteen now.
I dunno, maybe she was one of those people who looked much younger than her years, but I would find it very hard to believe she was older than that.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Yes, Margaret was 16 in S1, so she is 19 or 20.
I’m not sure if Joan lives in the same apartment she shared with Carol–though it was never confirmed, it appeared that, like Peggy, she shed a roommate and moved between S1 and S2. But it is her apartment that she now shares with Greg.
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/arts/television/23jfk.html?ref=television
THE LOST JFK TAPES – National Geographic Channel, Monday night at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time.
Includes a lot of TV coverage that hasn’t been seen since original broadcast.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:01 am
@Melissa – I believe she’s 19 or 20 (there’s been some reference to her age in the past, so it’s definitely known). But I didn’t mean it as if she’s too old to be acting this way. The fact is, she’s an immature girl who is marrying young (by our standards, although not for the era). So when, even as she’s about to be married, she gets reprimanded by her mother, her response is to act her age. It was just a good script note or something to have her do that. It underscored her actual stage of life.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
Yes, Margaret Sterling was a brat. But she hadn’t wanted a big wedding; her parents had. And her new stepmother kept wanting to be Best Friends. And she had jitters about marriage; it’s a big step. Then she saw TV coverage of JFK’s murder & cried that everything would be ruined.
However, she showed some growth by the end of the show. (Probably The Remarkable Mona took her in hand & pointed out her options.) Margaret decided she did really want to marry the guy. If she didn’t get The Society Wedding of The Year–so what. At the reception, somebody commented on the big crowd at the church & she answered calmly that most of them weren’t there for the wedding. She was greeting friends & family but I thought she seemed quite understanding about those who stayed away. (Alas for Pete & Trudy’s rebellion–nobody really cared.)
The fact that Stepmother Jane (dressed in an utterly inappropriate black lace cocktail frock) stayed in the kitchen probably didn’t hurt her mood.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
I really enjoy your prespective. Because time allows the material to sink in, the “not-so-live” aspect of your posts works very well.
One little bit I enjoyed in this episode was the discussion of how the would be Indian brides of marriages that aren’t completed are burned alive. This tied in neated with Don, whose marriage is crumbling underneath him, complains more than once about how hot it is in the office.
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 am
I like Margaret. She’s a brat, but I like her.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:13 pm
This is off topic, but I loved the scene in “Shut the Door” where Roger and Joan were sitting at the table, taking notes. I thought Roger was so sexy, and I finally realized that he reminded me of an older Cary Grant, i.e. when Cary Grant had grey hair and glasses. Soooo sexy!
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Slattery is so incredibly attractive to me–he is only 47 years old, and I feel bad that the gray is aging him–aging him quite well, but he’s a young man. I just saw him on a Will and Grace repeat, and to see him out of the 60s period reminded me how hot he is.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I too wonder how many times the MM people have to hit Slattery upside the head with the metaphorical old-guy frying pan. He certainly acts the part very well — and in the scenes where he’s playing the older guy acting immature, he’s so good that we forget what we’re seeing.
An actor acting his own age. Imagine that.
What I try to keep in mind is the episode of “Sex and the City” where he’s Carrie’s boyfriend, the kinky councilman. That’s my favorite non-Roger Sterling Slattery role.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Harry and Jennifer are another couple who got past an episode of infidelity when Harry slept with Hildy at the office.
It’s hard to imagine that Jane and Roger will last. She is already unhappy with her station in the marriage and the problems with Margaret, which might improve now that Margaret is married. But the way that Roger spoke to her during the fracas over her gift to Margaret and her attendance at the wedding was more than disrespectful and dismissive. It stated quite clearly that they were not equals in any way, especially socially. He had no problem with letting his wife languish in the kitchen during the reception, either. He once said, “I finally have a carefree girl…” but his carefree girl is beginning to care about a lot of things like her position in the family.
Roger and Joan as a permanent relationship, maybe even a marriage? After his speech about “roaming those hillsides…” Joan seemed hurt and offended and very aware of her place in his life. She didn’t say anything, but clearly, she realized that he had used her to satisfy his needs, whatever they might be. Joan is very used to her role as earth mother to the Mad Men, whether she sleeps with them or not, and in her view, it is better than some other job and has its status. I also think that now with the new company forming, Joan may stand to get some money out of it, for her contribution, finally, along with the others, though the men will make out considerably better financially than the women, unless Don and Roger and the other guys have a change of heart.
I also don’t see Joan and Don getting together. They have a lot in common, but she famously stated that she is not into “handsome” and I think they are friends who understand each other pretty well but not that attraced to each other. Has Don ever bedded a truly voluptuous woman like Joan? Nope. Not that I can recall. And Betty, even if the marriage does not last, was his ideal woman in terms of looks. As he once said, he needed her to shine, to impress, to be “a better half.”
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
For anyone who says “But Joan married a handsome man…” Greg is not handsome in the classic late-fifties, early sixties way. He has a boyish quality, and those deemed handsome in that era were invariably tall and dark and rugged. Did you notice Don’s chest hair in one episode? He was almost covered with dark, though not curly, chest hair. That was considered very sexy to women in the 50s and early 60s, but the more effeminate, sensitive, boyish man came into vogue later. I always wondered about Joan’s choice of Greg. She is so totally woman and mature and formidable, and he is much more youthful and needy in an emotional way. Is it that mother thing again, that need to nurture and help, or did she just want a doctor?
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Remember what Joan said in Season 1 to Mona, as she and Don approached during Mona and Margaret’s visit to the office?
Mona called Don and Joan a “handsome couple”. Joan said, “Honestly? I don’t go for handsome.”
Instantly, I thought … Well, what does she go for?
I still don’t know, and I would like to. I’m less interested in who may be the love of Roger’s life than in who ends up being the love of Joanie’s.
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Joan said, “Honestly? I don’t go for handsome.”
That’s funny – I took that line to be a wicked little jab at Roger from Joan, who’s basically telling Roger that in a Don-vs-Roger Handsome Match, he loses. (And as we know, Roger is a little bit sensitive about how he matches up with Don in attracting the ladies.)
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I do think Greg is supposed to be handsome.
As for “I don’t go for handsome”, wasn’t that Babylon, just a scene or two prior to the Joan and Roger reveal?
November 24th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I’d say Greg is a poster boy for the clean-cut all-American type that never goes out of style, whatever the “fashion” may be. He halso expresses just a hint of sensitivity that is very appealing. Greg reminds me of Martin Milner as Tod Stiles in the 1960-64 TV series Route 66.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Route66bnov.jpg
Mr. Milner was my icon of “handsome” at ages 10 to 14. (His traveling companion George Maharis as Buz Murdock, had Draper-like magnetism, but that’s OT.)
If you’ve never seen Route 66, want to know more about how the 60s felt and lived, and are looking for something great to watch during the MM interim, I highly recommend that you check it out on DVD. This series was mold-breaking television that has held up well over time.
@33, Gypsy, I saw that as a jab, too.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:24 am
# 31 Hudsunn
How do we know that 50s & early 60s women preferred chest hair? Hollywood was still waxing men’s chests in that period.
Teen idols were all the rage in the late 50s & early 60s. Did they influence the taste of older generations?
I thought the no-go of Joan and Don was becuase Don didn’t dally in the office – am I wrong?
November 24th, 2009 at 11:33 am
What I thought was really cute about that scene was the glimpse you get of Don and Joan casually walking down the hallway together and laughing about something. Seems they have a nice relationship in the office.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
@31 and @36, There wasn’t any one standard type of appealing man in the 1950s and 60s any more than there is now. “Tall, dark and handsome” is just one cliched description of male perfection.
@36, Teen idols? I don’t know. But children born in the 1950s and early 60s had parents from almost two generations. A lot of people born who were young adults in the Great Depression did not marry until the WWII years or after the war, and they started their families in their 30s (after the war through the mid- to late 1950s). Another set of parents of baby boomers became young adults in the late 1940s through the 1950s, and they were quite different in their tastes, style and attitudes and more tuned in to Ricky Nelson, Paul Anka, Frankie Avalon, Elvis Presley, than to Sinatra, Perry Como, Bobby Darin, and Tony Bennett. The youngest of this parental group were teen fans of the 50s idols! (Often a person could tell the age of the parents from the kids’ personalities and behavior, too.)
I thought the no-go of Joan and Don was because Don didn’t dally in the office – am I wrong? Ah, that assumes Don is holding off an attracted Joan. I’m not so sure that kind of attraction is there. Joan watched Don move up at the company so she’s seen his persona and talent evolve over 10 years. I think they have a very warm bond of mutual respect and a certain empathy, without being sexually attracted to each other. Joan knows most of Don’s secrets (not Dick’s secrets) and she’s seen his moves, so she also is forewarned about Don’s behavior as a casual lover.
I sense that Don genuinely likes women, likes being with them, and likes give-and-take with a smart, confident woman at the top of her game, whether or not it leads to sex. It’s one of the sad things about his relationship with Betty, that initially he must have been attracted by something like the flirtatiousness that she showed in Rome, yet in their marriage we see him stifling that in her.
November 24th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I forgot that Joan doesn’t go for handsome! And I agree with Roberta that Greg is supposed to be handsome so Joan has not gone for her type. In looks, Greg always remind me of Marlon Brando’s character in ‘A Street Car named Desire’, another abusive resentful husband.
Well, what does she go for? I still don’t know, and I would like to.
Considering that Joan has been with Roger and Kinsey in the past I’d say that she goes for men with witty colourful personalities and boyish humour. I actually thought Joan was nicely-matched with Paul. Just remembering their cute little cha-cha-cha makes me smile.
November 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I didn’t necessarily see “I don’t go for handsome” being Joan’s jab at Roger. I saw it being more of the responsible woman’s comment in the presence of a colleague’s wife.
If you think about this, it makes sense. Roger is handsome. Saying this would make her seem less threatening to that man’s wife, yet more interesting as a person.
Which she is anyway.
November 24th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Ah, that assumes Don is holding off an attracted Joan.
I don’t know that Joan is attracted to Don exactly, but in 5G, where Peggy admits to Joan that Don was sneaking out to see Midge while Betty & the kids wait in his office for their portrait appointment (except he wasn’t with Midge, he was with Adam, but Peggy didn’t know that) Joan says something to the effect of “well… that explains why he never hit on me.”
As if she had been hoping a little bit that he would.
Or, maybe it’s just that he’s the ONLY man in the office that never hit on Joan.
Anyway, I love the honest relationship they have, even though you only see little glimpses of it. Joan’s the only person I can remember (with the exception maybe of Roger in his more acerbic moments) who elicits a heartfelt, honest laugh out of Don – in the hospital with Guy, and that hallway scene.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
One of the most satisfying aspects of the Joan/Roger relationship is that we only get those snippets. It stays fresh and you always want more. In a traditional series, you know the network would hammer Mr. Weiner to have a little Hepburn/Tracy each and every week. They probably do here, but he can resist. Don’t give up the fight Matt!