Betty in the parking lot
I’ve really been trying to write this since before people started talking about it in comments.
The Grown-Ups. Betty meets Henry Francis in the parking lot.
It was my second viewing of the episode–from the opening shot of the scene it was suddenly looking very familiar.
I believe it to be a bookend to Betty and Glen in the parking lot in the Wheel.
Betty: Glen?
Glen: I’m not supposed to talk to you.
Betty: Who says–who said that?
Glen: My mother and my father.
Betty: I don’t care.
Glen: My mother is going to come out.
Betty: I don’t care. Glen, I can’t talk to anyone. It’s so horrible. I’m so sad.
(Glen reaches his mittened hand out the window, Betty puts her gloved hand in his.)
Glen: Don’t cry.
Betty: Please. Please tell me I’ll be okay.
Glen: I don’t know. I wish I was older.
Betty: Oh adults don’t know anything, Glen.
Glen: I don’t really know how long twenty minutes is.
Betty: Of course dear.
The Grown-Ups (who apparently don’t know anything):
Betty: I’m so glad you could see me.
Henry: Where does your husband think you are?
Betty: I don’t care. He’s been lying to me for years. I couldn’t be in that house. Then I saw you yesterday. I didn’t know you were going to be there.
Henry: I hoped you would be there.
Betty: Derby Day. Seems like a hundred years ago. And then this morning, seeing that man shot to death. What is going on?
Henry: It will be okay. We’ve lost a lot of presidents and we’re still standing.
Betty: I wish I could believe you. I can’t believe anything right now.
Henry: Have you thought that there are other ways to live? Listen, I’m not in love with the tragedy of this thing. It’s not Romeo and Juliet. I want it to happen.
Betty: I have three children.
Henry: I’ll know more when the primaries start to shake out in spring. But I can leave the campaign right now.
Betty: I don’t want you to do that.
Henry: You don’t have to answer me now. But I want to marry you.
Betty: I don’t know what to say.
Henry: You don’t have to say anything. I told you. But if you search your heart, you’ll know that I can make you happy.
(smooch)
Betty: I should go.
Henry: I wish I could take you to the movies right now. Some theater was playing your favorite movie.
Betty: Singin’ in the Rain.
Henry: Well, just think about that.
To me, “I don’t care” in the scene with Glen was beautifully strong. It was Betty’s first move back towards life. She was so sad (she hadn’t worked out that whole “my people are Nordic” thing yet) and really beaten, but “I don’t care” indicated a fierce pulse.
Three years later and she really means it.
In the Inheritance, Glen and Betty hold hands.
Glen: I came to rescue you… we can go anywhere, I have money.
So what does this all mean? That our little Betty’s all growed up?
Or maybe that this is just a child’s fantasy. This is a terrifically immature move on her part.
Don’t get me wrong–leaving Don, getting out of that marriage, that is strong, mature action. And the Betty of season one–her hands went numb at the mere sight of a divorcee.
It is a schoolgirl’s crush that she has on Henry. That’s apparent with every blushy smile he brings to her face.
And there’s nothing wrong with a crush that makes you feel like a teenager (Trust me on this!). But you don’t marry it, for god’s sake–you don’t marry someone you don’t know. At the time of the parking lot meeting, Henry and Betty had barely spoken a thousand words to each other. She’s gonna marry this guy she hasn’t had sex with? Really? Who does that? (And I don’t want to hear “that’s how it was back then”. She is a married woman with a diaphragm. That is just bad planning.)
On the other hand, there was no cultural vocabulary yet for this being a bad idea. Today we are all understand that rolling from one committed relationship right into the next is a recipe for disaster–it doesn’t stop us all from doing it, but it stops some of us. But there was no language for it–nobody spoke of the “rebound relationship”. Francine might raise her eyebrows but will ultimately approve. It’s better than being a divorced mother of three, after all.
But Betty, who wanted out of that prison, still chooses the role of princess, and may be finding herself just changing towers.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:10 am
I posted this at the end of another thread, but maybe it fits better here. Betty has chosen her gilded cage over freedom and growth many times.
…
I re-watched Shoot (1.09) this weekend. It was eye-opening.
I think Don kind of LIKED that Betty wanted to model again, even though he was conflicted about the circumstances of her going to work for McCann becuase he knew they were both being played.
But, he was actually INTERESTED in what her day was like after modelling. And he was obviously turned on by her venturing out of her shell — they made love in the living room instead of going upstairs. I think he saw the spark of the old Betty, and he liked it. All in all, he was pretty supportive of what she wanted to do.
But unfortunately, Betty couldn’t handle the rejection from McCann, and gave up the dream as quickly as she embarked upon it. She needs everything to be handed to her on a silver platter, I guess. When she came home and told Don she wanted to be a mother and housewife, not a model, I thought I detected a glimmer of disappointment on his face too. But he re-affirmed her choice, and told her what a wonderful mother she was.
I was surprised at how supportive he actually was in this whole endeavor, even though clearly he didn’t like the game Jim Hobart was playing. But if Betty had told him “Don, I want to keep modeling” I do believe he would have supported her choice. I think he liked what he saw. He’s always been drawn to independent, working women.
And then she went right back into her gilded cage and shut the door tight.
Don takes a lot of grief from fans over his treatment of Betty, but this episode gave me another perspective (not that I’ve been a big Betty fan by any means). Honestly, I was really anticipating that in re-watching it, having now seen 3 seasons, I would be much more sympathetic to Betty, and see Don for the controlling bastard that I know he can be. But that’s not what I saw.
…
I saw someone who preferred the safety of her gilded cage. And now, with Henry, Betty appears once again to be on the verge of choosing conformity and comfort .
If this is indeed the path she takes in S4, maybe the theme here is that not ALL women embraced the new feminism that was coming in America. For all the Peggys and Joans (and Rachels, Midges and Suzannes) there were lots of Bettys who were too constrained by upbringing, personality and fear to make a change, even though it sentenced them to a life they found maddening and unfulfilling.
I’ll be curious to see if Betty really DOES marry Henry. It’s possible that she is just using Henry right now as the emotional bridge to get to the other side. I can see this going either way.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I agree that Betty and Henry’s relationship has been portrayed as mostly shallow and superficial. But at the same time, think about the fact that he brought her to his attorney. They may have spent hours, or days in discussion about doing that.
Gypsy/Hobo was Halloween, and Shut the Door was mid-December, so there was six weeks time to discuss and plan. Now that’s not much time either to decide about someone as your spouse, but we can rightfully deduce a little more depth than what we’ve seen on-screen.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:40 am
B- I wonder about that sometimes. SHOULD we deduce things that aren’t even hinted at on-screen? It seems if MW wanted us to surmise that Betty & Henry have been having long talks and heart-to-heart conversations, there would have been at least one brief scene that points to that. My impression is that we’re supposed to take this at face value – that Betty is being somewhat impetuous about marrying Henry (if in fact she does.)
November 18th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Plus, B- my impression was that Betty didn’t make the decision to divorce until Nov 24, when she called Henry and met him in the car and he proposed. From their conversation and from the scene at the Sterling wedding, it appeared that they hadn’t spoken or seen each other for quite some time until the day before at the wedding. (At least, that’s how I interpreted it.) So, it was only 3 weeks.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:57 am
We haven’t been given any hints of behind-the-scenes communication between Betty & Henry. It really seems to me that Henry rushed the divorce process. And Betty went along, numbly.
That last scene reminded me of the last scene in Alan Rudolph’s Choose Me. Lesley Ann Warren is sitting in the bus from Vegas, next to her new groom, Keith Carradine–an escapee from the looney bin.
In her eyes, the dawning thought: “What have I done?”
November 18th, 2009 at 9:21 am
That airplane scene was not a joyful one.
It is interesting that you raised Glen. His line in “The Inheritance” is a pretty exact echo of what Henry says at the lawyers office “Close the Door, Have a Seat”. The parallels between the Glen and the Henry Francis story arcs are pretty striking.
It makes me wonder if old Henry has the type of money that Betty Draper is accustomed to spending.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:30 am
I definitely think there has been a lot more communication between the two of them since that day in the parking lot. I was saying up until that point.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:47 am
There was no cultural language for the idea of a “rebound relationship”?
Don’t be too sure! They might have called it something like, oh, a richochet romance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjDYROYuB7w
November 18th, 2009 at 9:58 am
Bluelight- hilarious!
Not to mention, dear departed Gene had a “ricochet romance” that daddy’s little girl was not only well aware of but also highly disapproved of. “Unseemly” was the word she used to describe it as I recall.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:01 am
All this has been nawing at me too Roberta, thanks for pointing out the comparison of Glen and Henry. Here is my take.
Betty is a scared child emotionally – she has learned to have “the look” that everyone loves to see. Everyone projects on to her what they want her to be and she has learned to go along. That is her survival technique. She is a walking, talking Barbie image. Look how the Junior League ladies – were using her and her looks to make their case for the hearing. We got some insight about Betty’s mother from Gene – saying how Betty was a fat little child, etc. In the Fog, we got clues how her mother treated her.
Don had her for a trophy to take to functions and show off. Don did not communicate with her because he too, a child emotinally, did not know how to talk to her or connect with her. Through the JFK weekend – we saw Pete and Trudy interacting and comforting each other. Don was at a loss – he did not know how to connect with anyone around him. Even Peggy, he let her go watch the funeral by herself, while he found comfort in a bottle. Roger did not know how to connect with Jane, another pretty image, either.
The image is all Betty has. She does not know any better. Henry has her number – he intends to treat her as a child – like the beautiful privledged “house cat”. Betty is grabbing his offer like a life rope – she was shook up about the assignations – and he talks like he has everything under control. I am sure she will be disappointed.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:04 am
gypsy howell – I totally agree with your entire post. “Shoot” was a zig-when-you-expect-to-zag sort of thing when it came to Don and Betty’s relationship. I expected him to put down the ironfist, so to speak, about her working, but I think he was conflicted – between 1) being supportive/happy for her, 2) wanting her to remain their children’s mother, and 3) feeling uncomfortably aware that this was a ploy to get him to McCann. I think the DVD commentary Matt Weiner did made some of these points, too.
Anyway, it wasn’t as simple as “Don is misogynist and repressive.” In the end, it was a power play for McCann to get Don, and Betty was tragically caught in the middle, needing still though to fight for her dignity at the end, and Don letting her.
To me, that’s a picture of their whole marriage. It might be easier, less ambiguous to paint Don as the unceasingly terrible husband, but he does have moments of compassion and empathy. It’s just that they are both stuck in an arrangement – both of them – in which Betty can’t actualize herself as a person.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:15 am
zg- yes, I thought Don was compassionate to Betty in Shoot. (And passionate about her when she seemed to be on the verge of developing a life of her own.)
But what also struck me was how quickly Betty abandoned her plan to model again once it was going to require a little bit of effort on her part. It was clear that despite her modeling experience, she was not in any way able to handle rejection, no matter how gently delivered. I wonder how long her career would have lasted if she hadn’t jumped into Don’s arms for the price of a fur coat. It would not surprise me to find out that Betty always had a hard time with the rejection that a modeling career surely entails from time to time, and that as long as assignments were handed to her on a silver platter – she IS gorgeous, after all — it was all well and good. But as soon as the going got tough, she was ready to trade it in for a life in Ossining with a handsome man she hardly knew. She flew right into that gilded cage.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:40 am
gypsy – that wouldn’t surprise me one bit, since her whole identity has been based on her appearance. Which is so sad.
It makes me even sadder because I personally don’t find the Betty Draper ice-queen Nordic Barbie thing attractive or beautiful at all. Give me a Midge, a Rachel, a Joan, a Peggy. Betty seems to be an image constantly ready to evaporate. I think it’s sort of brilliant how unsubstantial she appears on-screen actually – like that terrifying moment in the finale when Don hauled her to her feet with one hand.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Betty also did not opt for the abortion. And she was clear, at least in her own mind, that she really, really wanted one.
Both with the modeling and with the baby, I believe she saw herself as having no choice. In both cases, the door was open. But I think what Betty wanted was someone else to hold that door open. Henry has done that.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:53 am
That last scene reminded me of the last scene in Alan Rudolph’s Choose Me. Lesley Ann Warren is sitting in the bus from Vegas, next to her new groom, Keith Carradine–an escapee from the looney bin.
In her eyes, the dawning thought: “What have I done?”
———————–
Ha, ha, YES! Loved that movie, by the way.
Betty’s always looking for someone to “fix it” it for her, no matter what “it” is. Build Sally’s playhouse, fix the bed, fix the chair, fix the stereo, Gene’s involved with Gloria, Gene’s unwell, I hate this house, this neighborhood, this life, the president’s been assassinated — fix it, Don; why can’t you fix it? I’m so sad and lonely — fix it, Glen. I want a new life — fix it, Henry.
Betty’s never going to be happy because she keeps relying on someone else — any random guy — to make her life better.
I always find it interesting when people talk about how controlling and oppressive Don is toward her. I don’t think I ever agreed with this assessment. Don wasn’t one of those guys. He’s not one of those men who pound their fists on the table, demanding a hot dinner at 7:01, a perfectly kept house, and perfect wife willing to wait hand and foot on him. Betty provided those things, yes — and he took them for granted — but he never demanded or even expected any of it. He wasn’t keeping her locked in the house, preventing her from expanding her horizons. She could do whatever she wanted.
That’s how I saw it, at least…
November 18th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Yes Roberta, I think that’s exactly right. And to that extent, Henry has her number. He’s been trying to get Betty to make a choice — whether to have an affair, whether to call him — but she has shown time after time that she does not want to make any of the hard decisions. She wants them to be made for her (and then she can pout about how few choices she has.)
Deciding to end her marriage, of course, is the big exception, but it was only because Henry held out the lifeline to her in the form of another marriage.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Betty provided those things, yes — and he took them for granted — but he never demanded or even expected any of it.
Yes, and again, go back to Shoot for confirmation of this. Don tells her – quite sincerely –” I don’t care if you pick up my shirts, I don’t care if you make my dinner, I want you to be happy.” (paraphrasing)
And now, in the last episode “I hope you get what you’ve always wanted.”
First she’s going to have to decide what that is. But Don is over trying to read the entrails and divine what will make her happy.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Since Singin’ In The Rain is one of the tags for this thread, I’d like to throw in this description of Lina Lamont:
“She can’t act, she can’t sing, she can’t dance. She’s a triple threat.”
November 18th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
hullaballoo, there have certainly been some controlling moments. I think he actually did take a shot at her in Shoot (no pun) about dinner, and there was the bikini incident. He’s not a total neanderthal, but he’s been shitty at times, and not just with the cheating.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
#18, not_Bridget:
Pow!
That’s Betty. She can’t act. React, yes: she’s all over that. Offer her something to like or not like, to judge or taste, or to buy, and she can do it. But make an entirely independent choice? Not so much.
I would add a tired point (only tired because it’s been made before, on this blog, and so often in those “depression-hurts” ads), about what can cause a person to suffer disabilities in the areas of action and choice … but I think many of you can see it from here.
What’s “wrong” with Betty may be as simple, or as pathological, as her being one of those people who was raised to develop only one facet of who she is. I agree, there’s an argument for seeing her this way: Betty was raised to be an ornament, and her passivity comes from that.
But I’m not sure how I feel about this now. Betty does not have the telltale edge of meanness, of desperation, that a woman raised to be nothing but pretty would have. Jane Siegel Sterling will have it; Betty does not. She’s cool where the mean-girl heat would be. Betty is not petty.
There’s a reason why people (not just men) are drawn to her. I wish that reason were more visible to Betty herself.
Anyway …
I too think more transpired in Betty and Henry’s relationship between the parking lot scene and the lawyer’s office. But I also know, based on what we saw in that office, what didn’t. There’s no sexytime. Yet.
And — since that’s Betty’s baby son on her lap, on the way to Reno — I don’t see this changing much.
Poor Henry.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
“Poor Henry?” Pffft! What does Henry think he’s getting? Why does he think he can make Betty happy when he doesn’t know the first thing about her? Maybe because he’s figured out that what makes a woman like Betty happy is to be placed on a pedestal and adored for her looks, asking nothing else of her and getting exactly that in return — and he figures he can fill the bill in that department.
Betty is right – that was never enough for Don.
I think Glenn would have outgrown Betty in another year.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
I keep thinking of Don’s line to Pete: “You haven’t thought this through.”
Betty hasn’t thought this through. As this post said – she’s just changing towers (great line by the way!).
I don’t think Henry has “Don” money – Don has a half-million dollars rolling around (ok he bought SCDP with it, but still). Henry is some political hack – they make nothing. He may even want Betty as a trophy wife so HE can run for office.
Betty will have step-children (her own age), she’ll be a divorcee, Henry is OLD, her kids won’t like him, she’ll still have to deal with Don and on and on.
Betty built her life-raft but didn’t think beyond that.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
The Mad Men Anachronism Squad is at it again.
That was how it was back then: the social construct of no-sex-before-marriage was a given, and yes, even for adults who had been previously married.
I’ve given the example of my father’s second marriage in 1962 — when he and my stepmother were respectively, 39 and 42, each with three children (teenagers for my stepmother).
Nearly a year of courtship, but they made a point of “waiting” until marriage — even in the retelling of that courtship story years later to grown children. Neither particularly religious, either, didn’t attend church, except for the wedding.
Contrast that with my father’s third marriage in the 1990s: although both were senior citizens I got to hear the “cute” story of the surprise sex between friends, that led to their eventual marriage.
“Studies have shown that, between 1965 and 1975, the number of women who had had sexual intercourse prior to marriage showed a marked increase.[5]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_revolution_in_1960s_America
A quote which presupposes that fewer women had sexual intercourse before marriage prior to 1965.
I was old enough to have sex in the 1960s, and yes, some of my friends did, but the object lesson of teen pregnancy and marriage was enough to scare me and most of my friends off from sex until first year of college in 1969.
And I clearly remember that the taboo against sex before marriage was more heavily weighted in the culture than the reverse. Which would gradually change as the ’60s progressed.
Private behavior may have veered off the path, but the assumption 50 years ago was the opposite of current thought: that of course, it’s crazy not to sex have before marriage, especially for adults.
From our perspective, it’s extremely unwise for Betty to put Henry off (although it did result in his proposal.), We can project sexual incompatibility as almost the inevitable destruction of that second marriage, if it should occur.
But that would not necessarily have been the spoken — or unspoken — assumption in 1963.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Don has a half-million dollars rolling around (ok he bought SCDP with it, but still)
Ahhh… see that’s the beauty of the Sterling Coup! Don DOES still have the money, because when it was all said and done they didn’t “buy” anything. They took the clients and ran. Sure, they’ll have to front a little cashflow for the room at the Pierre and drinks and such until the billings come in (that’s where Lane comes in really handy – he’ll know how to squeeze every last dime out of this venture so no one is out a nickel), but they didn’t have to buy out PPL after all. It’s such a beautiful thing.
Re: “Henry is OLD” I know there’s a double standard for age disparity between men and women, but I keep thinking of Betty’s biggest disappointment with Don’s affair with Bobbie — “And she’s so OLD”
God, I can’t wait until next season.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Hmmmm… maybe freelancewoman, but we’re talking about a woman who had sex with a complete stranger on a couch in a bar, and a man who was ready to bang her on his desk.
I think Betty’s just in love with the idea of courtly love.
OR – maybe Betts will surprise us, and the reason she hasn’t given in to his advances is because she never intends to. Henry IS just a life-raft until Betty finds another yacht.
I think I could enjoy that story development.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
maybe Betts will surprise us, and the reason she hasn’t given in to his advances is because she never intends to. Henry IS just a life-raft until Betty finds another yacht.
My money (what’s left of it, after I’m done donating to each day’s theocrat-opposing forces) is entirely on this.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Well Anne B- our first clue will be whether she turns down the opportunity for alimony and a settlement (I’m assuming child support would happen either way).
Does it make me a bad person to admit that I would look forward to seeing the crushing disappointment on Henry’s face when Betty tells him “Thanks for the lawyer and the lovely apartment in Reno, now scram, old man”?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
The problem is that Betty hasn’t really built herself a life raft. She just jumped on to the first boat that drifted by. Henry convinced her that he’d take care of her and the children, and that she shouldn’t take any support or alimony from Don. I suppose that means he intends to marry her as soon as her divorce is finalized? Sure, she is part owner of her father’s house in Philadelphia, and she has the house in Ossining, but what other assets does she have? How will she live? She has no other option but to marry Henry as soon as she is able to do so. Does she even know why he divorced his first wife? I’d want to know what happened there before I went one step further with him. Was he abusive? Unfaithful? A workaholic? Did his wife fall for someone else? What happened there? People didn’t just get a divorce because they were tired of each other, like they do today. There had to be a compelling reason — even if he’d just “gone to Reno” as he’s doing with Betty. How many times has he done this before?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Re the “Henry is OLD” meme. How old do people suppose he is? I am guessing late 40s — about 15 years older than Betty. Maybe I am showing my own age, LOL, but that doesn’t really strike me as very old at all.
I know women in their 30s married to men in their late 50s and they don’t seem to lack for the type of “go-round” Duck made famous — sans Viagra, even — so I’d say old Henry has a few more years of life in him as a viable husband for Betty, socially and privately.
Though I will say that Henry looked his youngest at the Old Kentucky Home party and has appeared a little more haggard since then.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Though I will say that Henry looked his youngest at the Old Kentucky Home party and has appeared a little more haggard since then.
Picture of Dorian Grey. Staring at Betty too much.
As for the OLD meme- well, how old is Bobbie Barrett? Yes, yes, I know it’s different for women. I bet she’s only 40 though, 3-4 years older than Don.
hull- I suppose he could be a widow. (Can’t remember, do we know if he’s divorced or widowed?) But your point being of course, Betty doesn’t seem to know much about him. Well, who knows, maybe they talked about it on the plane….
November 18th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Well, there she goes with the good questions.
True, hull. In that time and place, you had to have legitimate cause to get divorced. Henry’s got something back there: infidelity on one or both sides, abuse, or a Thornfield Manor (crazy spouse in the attic. Or maybe Henry’s the one who’s missing a hubcap).
Consent was necessary … and his former wife had some reason to want to see him gone.
Is there only one former wife? What do we really know about this guy?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
“And there’s nothing wrong with a crush that makes you feel like a teenager (Trust me on this!). But you don’t marry it, for god’s sake–you don’t marry someone you don’t know. At the time of the parking lot meeting, Henry and Betty had barely spoken a thousand words to each other. She’s gonna marry this guy she hasn’t had sex with? Really? Who does that?”
How do you know that Betty will immediately marry Henry Francis? Did Matt Weiner state that this will happen? I’m not claiming that Betty will not marry Henry. But how do you know that she will immediately marry him? And although Betty and Henry have barely spoken a thousand words to each other, they had been exchanging letters.
Couples can date each other for a year or two, but they will never really know each other until they marry.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
None of us know, DRush, but of course you know that. We’re speculating, based on the evidence laid out in front of us so far.
And please, one can make the argument that none of us ever truly “know” someone else, but that’s not what we’re talking about here, and you know it.
Seriously, make your case for how you see this playing out for Betty and Henry, based on what we’ve actually seen in the show or can reasonably surmise from previous episodes. That’s what we’re trying to do.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I think that Don found the Betty who had a little spark in her when McCann offered her the modeling job rather interesting and exciting. But I also suspect that in the end, he was rather relieved when she gave up the idea of modeling permanently. His reaction to her bikini in “Maidenform” told me how he really regarded her . . . or how he wanted to regard her.
Actually, Don’s reaction to Betty reminds me of the fans – he wants her to be this ideal wife and mother, yet at the same time, wants her to be a little “exciting” like she was in Rome or in “Shoot”. There is something very contradicting about Don’s expectations of Betty.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
We don’t know that Betty will marry Henry–immediately or ever. But, in the lawyer’s office, he told her that she needed no money from Don–even for child support. Forget alimony or a cash settlement. Which would mean that (1) he planned on marrying her before her signature on the divorce decree was dry or (b) he planned on “keeping” her outside of marriage.
Most of us hope Betty goes through with the divorce. But we hope she snaps out of it long enough to work out a sensible arrangement with Don–concerning child custody, visitation, support. And alimony and/or a cash settlement.
So she will be free to marry Henry immediately out of love. Or suggest a waiting period, to let the kids adjust & give neighborhood busybodies rest. Or thank him as she catches the first flight to Rome.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Anne & Hull – it’s possible that Henry’s wife was the ‘bad guy’ in the marriage. Maybe she cheated on him, and he’s the aggrieved party in their divorce.
Hey, maybe she got the Don Draper Treatment! (Surely we don’t know about ALL of his affairs in the city – Bobbie alluded to that) And once you’ve been Drapered… sigh… well, going back to Henry just wasn’t an option…
November 18th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
The comments are flying faster than I can clandestinely type so this may not fit the current discussion but now that theocrats are in the air maybe this will make some sense. I think The Betty Dilemma parallels my awakening to atheism.
I was raised Roman Catholic. My parents were Catholic. We attended Mass on Sundays. My brother and I were altar boys. All five kids went to Catholic elementary then high school. I attended a Catholic university. I was designed and programmed to function in that Catholic environment and that environment fully encouraged me to be a part of the same.
Around 1976 when I was fourteen I began to ask important, annoying questions and The Company’s (the Church) answers came back lacking.
The irony of the Catholic Educational System as I experienced it was that System truly valued education up to the point when it’s used for introspection. It favored small class size; lots of science and math; emphasized self-expression and reasoning; plenty of liberal arts and extracurricular diversity. But when it came to applying my clear and logical mind, the same mind it had cultivated, to the examination of the dogma and underpinnings of The Company’s policies, well you probably can guess, I met some resistance.
The Catholic Institutional Structure does not want its members to question the nature and essence of The Structure. This questioning is an existential threat to its Relevance and its Power.
So my queries were tamped down. I was told to pray for guidance and to have faith and it would all work out. My mother told me to stop asking silly questions.
The entire System is constructed to protect itself this way. And as a result I realized, “there are other ways to live” but it was much easier for my survival to let it all slide until I could extract myself from that environment. If you don’t have the power to change things then it’s best to delay. My personal growth would have to wait until I could find the place to grow.
I see this as similar to the situ of our dear Betts. We can debate whether it’s that much different today from then but American society is institutionalized patriarchy (much like the Church), and she’s a female conditioned to play a specific part in that structure. Her upper-class upbringing and education ironically work against her inner growth because there are tangible incentives and perks for her staying and playing within the system at that level. If Betty were part of the more common population, she would have much less to lose in raging against the machine. She takes on a lot of personal risk in divorcing and if she seems to defer to Henry at this moment, to look for a lifeboat, it’s probably because she’s not certain that she can pull it off without drowning. She knows there are other ways to live but she doesn’t have a clear current example of what those ways are; what Life outside the Structure can be for her, but she’s smart enough and desperate enough to know she has to try now while she still cares.
Fighting the Man is dangerous wet work.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
less of me… sounds like my dear thurston’s experience with the Church. You can’t get him near one now. That’s part of why he married me.
If it were another character besides Betty having this crisis of the soul, it would be easier for me to buy. I just don’t see a lot of visible thought process going on there. I’d LIKE to, because it would make her a much more sympathetic character to me. If I could get even a glimpse of an intellect behind all that frosty goodness (OK, she speaks Italian, that’s kinda cool) if I could get some sense than underneath it, there’s a nice, genuine adult woman there struggling to get out from under the patriarchal thumb, it would make it so much easier to be on Betty’s side. But when do we ever see her acting like anything but a spoiled child?
I think the scene that most solidified my dislike for Betty, besides the ongoing emotional drain of watching her cold and distant interactions with her own children, was the scene with Gene when she pouted like a selfish brat when he was trying, in his final days (his final hours, as it turns out), to put things in order for his family. And she was too self-centered and immature to understand that at some point, you have to stop taking and start giving. Nope. She couldn’t do it. She couldn’t see past her own needs for even a minute. How dare you not treat me like your little princess?
So many women fought so hard for agency, and here is Betty doing everything she can to push it away.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
gypsy, well articulated.
My only question is why does she have to be a “nice, genuine adult woman there struggling to get out from under the patriarchal thumb” in order for you to be at peace with Betty?
Our friend in another thread just hit a point that makes sense to me, human beings are all pretty messed up, that makes the drama hit home.
Maybe Betty is and will always be a spoiled woman/child, (I dated a few personally) maybe she will never appreciably mature at all, does that have to kill sympathy for the story of another permanently flawed human being flailing against the waves?
Doesn’t the pathos ring true and isn’t that enough to enthrall us?
Does she have to be noble and likeable for us to relate to her hopelessness and desperation? Should not the human condition be interesting enough?
Can I get an Amen from the choir? Can I get a lift home? Can I borrow your lawnmower?
November 18th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
I forgot to add,
May the FSM look disinterestedly past you, (its nature is not to intervene), and may it touch you with its noodly appendage.
Slainte!
November 18th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
LOM–
Well, yes, human beings are all messed up, and that does make it interesting, but it doesn’t make me like her. BUT! There are times I cheer for her (Betty! Get The Keys! THE KEYS, BETTY!!) I just wish her personality made it easier for me to cheer for her more often. Half the time I just want to slap her beautiful nordic face. I’ll admit it- I thought it was a tiny bit awesome when Don shoved her right back in ‘3 Sundays.’ Yes, I am a terrible person, why do you ask?
Which is all well and good, because it makes it easier for me to forgive Don. And I’m cool with that.
Can I borrow a cup of sugar? Do you have any flashlight batteries?
November 18th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
Forget the patriarchal thumb. (Although, as an Anthro major, Betty should be down with patriarchal, matriarchal, patrilineal, matrilineal, patrilocal, matrilocal, etc.)
Betty was a cold bitch to her dying father.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
May the FSM look disinterestedly past you, (its nature is not to intervene),
LOM, I think it’s fair to say Don would be an adherent of the FSM. The universe is indifferent.
I’ll raise your Slainte with a Salut!
November 18th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Seriously, make your case for how you see this playing out for Betty and Henry, based on what we’ve actually seen in the show or can reasonably surmise from previous episodes. That’s what we’re trying to do.
I can’t make a case on how Betty and Henry’s relationship will play out. I just don’t know what Matt Weiner will do.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
The last time many had predicted or assumed that Weiner would take a storyline one way, he ended up surprising a lot of people. I’ve noticed that this happened a lot. Not all of the time, but a lot.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
The preceding lamentations remind me why we like this drama in the first place.
We see glimpses of unhappy or unevolved souls, and then wonder if they will manage to grow into something better.
Some do, some don’t.
Some people just grow in one or two directions, such as Peggy. (It’s curious that the reality of that baby of hers has long been forgotten. I keep waiting for the child to rise up someday like the Plot Point That Shall Not Be Forgotten.)
November 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
So many women fought so hard for agency, and here is Betty doing everything she can to push it away.
—————-
Precisely. Don’s a bastard, to be sure, but he never stopped her from doing what she wanted (well, except for wearing a bikini around the house and getting an air conditioner). For the most part, it was “whatever makes you happy.” You want to take riding lessons? Sure, Betts. You want a job in the city? Fine. Jr. League? PTA? Yep. Cards with the Hansons? Well, okay, if we must. Carla’s taking care of the house, the shopping, the cooking, your father, the children, etc.? Fine by me — let’s go to Rome…
Compared to a lot of women of the time — even pampered, well-off, society matrons — Betty has a lot of options. Don isn’t so much of an a$$hat that he’s completely controlling of her every thought and action. She only superficially participates in the activities that she supposedly enjoys like riding and the Jr. League. It seems to me like she spends an inordinate amount of time sitting on the couch flipping through magazines and reading, or sitting in the kitchen, smoking and drinking wine. There’s an entire world happening around her, yet she opts to stay home and brood; Carla’s taking care of her house and children, so she has time; she has two cars and access to money, which suggests she has means, but she doesn’t take advantage of any of that. She wants more from her life, but expects whichever man is taking care of her at the moment to give it to her. Why doesn’t she use some of her time and resources to do it herself?
And I don’t buy the argument that she’s a product of her time and upbringing. There were plenty of women from that period who were able to muster the courage, energy, and will to transcend their “station in life.” I look at my mother (who’s about Betty’s age), as well as my grandmothers and aunts and marvel at what they were able to achieve with less support and fewer resources. Add to this the fact that they’re Black and had to deal with not only the sexism of the time, but also the racism (even in a supposedly liberal and integrated place like Los Angeles), and I just can’t feel sorry for Betty.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Betty may have had drunken, end-of-the-world, revenge sex with a stranger in the office to a bar, but after years of a half-marriage to Don, it’s obvious she now wants the attention of being courted.
In 1963, that could and did mean “waiting” for marriage: “getting to know” a man before sex, and before marriage, whether or not we would now deem it unwise.
Even statistically, that was a high-norm for the period.
(Surely you don’t mean that just because a woman had once had a one-night stand, she isn’t deserving of a courtship? And since when does one sexual act completely define what choices a woman later makes about her sexual life?)
My own high school relationships in the early ’60s proceeded at a glacial pace sexually. But the expectation then was that nice girls didn’t — at all — so six months to a year of slow gradual foreplay before intercourse was also something a boyfriend might have to deal with, whether he liked it or not.
On the high school level, “making out” could go on for hours — and could consist of little more than kissing and hugging, endlessly.
My brother and sister are three and four years younger, so the process was considerably speeded up in their high school years because they benefitted more from the sexual revolution (and access to marijuana.)
November 18th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
For me, I never expected Betty to become fully developed as a character, following her divorce from Don. Why should she? The series has only reached as far as Season 3. None of the other characters are fully developed. And for Betty to immediately become fully developed, following her breakup from Don would seem unrealistic or illogical.
Look at the other characters. None of them are fully developed. Joan is still married to Greg. The only reason she took the job with the new agency in the first place, is because she needs the job and the money. Has she fully realized – at least internally – that she might not be suited to being the wife of a successful professional? I have not seen any signs of her coming to that realization . . . at least not yet.
Pete Campbell is still an immature man. Yes, he can forward thinking in regard to the advertising business and the country’s social landscape. But this is a man who wants to depend upon his wife to keep him from other women after the au pair debacle. And he still wants Don’s respect. Why? I do not know. Don’s respect is not worth the effort. Unfortunately, Pete still does not realize this.
Neither does Peggy. Granted, she was a lot bolder in demanding Don’s respect when he tried to recruit her for his new agency. But it all goes back – at least for me – is why bother? She knows she is a first-rate copywriter. She now realizes the extent of Don’s flaws. If she had been that unhappy, she should have left Sterling Cooper for Gray’s when given the chance. So what if Duck wanted to get back at Don? Peggy should have worried about how she could have benefitted for her career. But like Pete, Don’s respect is so important to her. Which only tells me that she is not as mature or secure as she or many fans might think she is. I don’t care if she is now a career woman or a first-rate copywriter. Peggy Olson has a long way to go in regard to be a fully developed character.
I could go on about the other characters other characters on the show. Including Don’s character, which is still screwed up as far as I’m concerned. But ever since the season finale aired, most fans have rarely discussed the lack of development of the other major characters (well, except for Don). Instead, most of the focus has been on Betty, because she has moved on with another man.
And now, thanks to Matt Weiner, we’re supposed to believe that her decision to divorce Don has more to do with class snobbery over her discovery that he was the son of a prostitute, than his constant lies and emotional crap he had foistered upon her for the past decade. If this is Weiner’s idea of characterization, he has to do a lot better than this.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
#48 – I’m from the south, and things are sort of backward there and all, but into the 70s girls were expected to go no further than the dry hump with the long-time b.f.
And my step-mother went to my step-brother’s apartment when he moved in with his g.f. to beg him not to do this to her. … i.e. embarrass her by being a child who lives with the person he married a few years later.
anyway, religion was the reason behind that (both my father and step-mother were widowed, and I don’t even want to have to wonder if they had sex before marriage because my creepy-o-meter does not want to ever go there.)
amen.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
Well DRush, you and I disagree. Don’s respect IS worth having. You know why ? Because he is really, really good at his job. And he knows talent when he sees it. And he has a moral center, even if it doesn’t extend to being faithful to his wife. (Morality is not only about being faithful — there are many dimensions to it. Look at MLK.)
Peggy wants his respect because she values her ability and talent at work, and that’s what Don recognizes. What — is DUCK going to give her that? He just wants to f*ck her. That’s OK, but that’s not where Peggy derives her self-esteem. Don’s approval is important, because he sees her true talents.
Pete wants his approval because Don is a self-made man, and Pete wants nothing more than to succeed on his own terms, without the benefit and baggage that his family name has burdened him with. He recognizes that in Don, and he craves it.
Joan? Good lord, could you misread Joan more? Joan doesn’t care about the money (although the money is an issue in her marriage.) Joan is a feminist in spite of herself. She is in command in every situation, and she needs some way to be recognized for that. SC, and now SCDP, know how much Joan is worth. She can run anything. It remains to be seen how her marriage turns out, and clearly she has married “beneath herself” but, like Don and like Peggy, Joan is a survivor. She has an amazing strength and intelligence that is belied by her Monroe-ish sexuality. Going back to SCDP is recognition of that.
If you see lack of development in the other characters, I have to believe we are not watching the same show. The arc of the story lines for Don, Peggy, Pete, Joan and all the others has been what’s glued me to the show through 3 seasons.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:27 pm
Look, we know those were the values, but the thing is, women were getting married because they “had” to for hundreds of years. Sex wasn’t invented in the mid-1960s.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Does she have to be noble and likeable for us to relate to her hopelessness and desperation? Should not the human condition be interesting enough?
Showing up, late as ever, in the empty church to sing out a lonely “amen”.
I decided something a while ago. Betty reminds me of someone too, and I could cling to that and go down the rabbit hole myself. But I don’t. She’s not my mother, she’s not me, but I get to have sympathy for her because she is both not real and ringingly true.
I share more than one genetic point of identification with Betty (my people could pass for Nordic, if they were not so Anglo-Irish-Germanic-Polish … mine were much more the people who built the houses than those who ended up living in them). And to this day, I know women who act like her … though the historical moment in which any adult, woman or man, could expect to be “provided for” by another has clearly passed.
Betty’s familiarity does not endear her to me. Nor does Don’s, by the way. The way they are portrayed can, and does, and then sometimes does not. It’s about what I bring to the experience, but it’s also about the generosity in the writing and the acting. If one of those things is missing, none of this works.
Clearly — ask our fair Lipp sisters about the daily tally of posts on this board — it works.
l-o-m: Jumper cables! Anytime you need ‘em.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Great “so be it” Envious One. Add another fine film to the queue, I will have to.
Well maybe I’ll reconsider Scripture and the efficacy of prayer, I asked for an Amen and I got one. The Catholicism pays off I guess.
It was Matthew 7:7 or some such that proved true:
“Ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and . . . someone will say, “What’s the password?” Ye better know the fuckin’ password, Roger.”
What was that password kiddies? Inquiring Mind wants to know. Belly full; tryptophan and endorphins mixing Gibsons in the Champagne Room in my brain; too groggy to gazoogle. Enlighten me Cases. What’s the password?
Bluelight and DRush76 hit the same consideration I tried to imply, these people are not static; they are constantly shape-shifting. Some grow or move forward; some regress a bit. Then the growers get trimmed back and have to evolve some other way. I think this is one of the most distinguishing traits of the series: the writers are not painting the characters with the traditional, classic morality colors. The white/black trope is lifeless and dry but still conveys the gist, there are no saints nor sinners in this televised novel. Depending on the pressures or joys at a particular time in the narrative, we see different shades of human nature. Me likey a lot.
And hullaballoo (and gypsy), I’m not making excuses for Betty; I’m only trying to understand her and I think she’s fairly authentic. Not all suburban hausfrau were depressed and incapacitated, but many were; many felt cornered by the unseen machinations of life. Your family’s personal stories were real achievements in the times but I think they may have been the notable exceptions rather than the general rule. Not to get all wonky ‘round here, it is just TV (ha!) we’re chatting up, but look at these stats on kids on foodstamps since 1968 and this article on upward mobility. It seems our prosperity may just be a major illusion for a large number of our fellow citizens. I’m still waiting on the revolution I fear. I’m not being all righteous hullaballoo, I just wanted to soberly address some of your serious points there.
Dude, Where’s my endorphin?? Got to cycle back up because. . .
Former captive of New Yawk City, the late but great Anne B has strolled in and mentions the generosity of writing and acting on display and I cannot argue for once, but I do declare AB, you nailed it last week, claim it; it’s the balls, the cojones, the show flaunts; the unflinching look at ourselves. To paraphrase my sweet abandoned Suzanne; she thinks we can handle the truth, we just need an adult to tell it to us.
Amen back at ya.
Oh yeah, you’re in SF and I can borrow the jumper cables?? There is a joke in there somewhere. Is this a dare? Are you baiting me?
While I think, I shall drink– “Waiter! More wine for Cyclops!”
November 18th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Well said #18- Betty is always looking for someone to “fix it”. I don’t think Betty has the confidence or the know how to “fix it” herself. That reminds me of the episode that she is preparing for a dinner party and there’s a broken chair in the dining room. She doesn’t know how to “fix it” so she starts to smash it until the chair falls to bits. A
November 18th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
YES!! Betty is always looking for someone to “fix it”. I don’t think Betty has the confidence or the know how to “fix it” herself. That reminds me of the episode that she is preparing for a dinner party and there’s a broken chair in the dining room. She doesn’t know how to “fix it” so she starts to smash it until the chair falls to bits. Afterwards she seems peaceful.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
LOL, l-o-m!
Am checking out. While I can still see out of the one good eye.
“Captive of New York City”? Greater people have wished for lesser things. I swear, I’d go back there to help any of you people redecorate your apartments.
As for the jumper cables … that’s actually a bit from a great Bernie Mac riff about the things you can ask for over the phone in luxury hotels.
But as Joan might say, I love what you’ve done with it …
November 18th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
#54
To continue the movie theme…
The password is “Swordfish.”
The answer is “42.”
November 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Mis dos centavos:
- Betty still hasn’t said yes to Henry. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that she does, ever. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if she gave him the boot before the ceremony ever took place. And if not, I’m still not buying that she marries him the minute she’s available.
- If Betty hadn’t had Baby Gene, her situation would be much different. If she had family she could move in with who would take care of the baby all day for free, her situation would be much different. But it’s hard enough now for a woman in that situation — separated, with an infant to care for along with two other school-aged kids — to “just move out and get a job,” let alone what it must have been like back then.
- Even if Henry doesn’t have “Don money,” it basically doesn’t matter, because Betty doesn’t actually know what kind of money Don has. She knows nothing about the bonuses. She knows nothing about the money he made on the sale of the company. She probably just assumes he’s making more or less what they made when they bought the house, with slight increases each year. They live far below their means so that Don always has an escape hatch. (“Building a life raft,” my economy-sized bottom.)
- I don’t think Henry is that old. People looked older then. His daughter looks to be in her early 20s. Henry is probably about 45. That makes him about 7 years older than Don. (And it doesn’t look like Henry has Don’s nasty habits either, so if anything, his chances of lasting longer are better.)
- It may well have been ego on Henry’s part for him to tell Betty not to ask for any money from Don. But it could also be that he’s been briefed on the degree of Don’s deception, and being a lawyer himself, Henry could also have been thinking of the legal ramifications of Betty continuing to have a legal and financial relationship with an identity thief.
- But Don also strikes me as the kind of guy who would insist on sending a child support check whether she asks for it or not, just to keep participating in the pissing contest. (Him take the kids? Including the baby? He’s got to be kidding. He probably doesn’t even know where to put the soiled didies, let alone when it’s time for the kid to be toilet-trained.)
November 19th, 2009 at 12:16 am
“Well DRush, you and I disagree. Don’s respect IS worth having. You know why ? Because he is really, really good at his job. And he knows talent when he sees it.”
Don is not the only character on that show who recognizes talent or is a talented ad men. I can understand Peggy wanting Don’s respect when she was new at being a copywriter. But by Season Three, she had been in the game long enough to realize that she deserved more than just Don’s respect. His respect can only go so far. And if someone like Duck Phillips was able to see that stealing Peggy from Sterling Cooper was worthwhile, then she could have realized that she no longer needed Don to enable her.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:20 am
“YES!! Betty is always looking for someone to “fix it”. I don’t think Betty has the confidence or the know how to “fix it” herself.”
Why would you expect Betty to have such complete confidence in herself so early in the story? Frankly, she has come a far way since early Season One. But for her to reach full development as a character right now seems unrealistic at this point in the series. After all, MAD MEN has only reached the end of Season Three. That’s it. If Betty’s character was to achieve full development at this point, her story would prematurely be over. And I can say the same about the rest of the characters. And it’s easy – at least for me – to see that they haven’t fully developed as characters, as well.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Pete wants his approval because Don is a self-made man, and Pete wants nothing more than to succeed on his own terms, without the benefit and baggage that his family name has burdened him with. He recognizes that in Don, and he craves it.
I know this. I know why Pete wants Don’s approval. However, I think he needs to outgrow this desire to become a fully mature person. I can recall a character from one of the TREK shows, who realized that he needed to learn to respect himself, instead of acquiring the respect of others. The question remains . . . will Pete ever learn that he doesn’t need Don’s approval and respect in order to respect himself?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:29 am
Yes, women have “had to” get married for centuries (even one of my aunts in the 1940s, who later, to my surprise, was in favor of Roe V. Wade), and a couple of my high school girlfriends in the 1960s — but that didn’t change the fact that the social construct at the time was weighted against pre-marital sex.
Or that statistically, there were more women who “waited” for marriage in that time frame, then now.
Betty was by no means the anomaly in 1963, no matter that hindsight makes us wiser.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:28 am
#58 — You may enter but you can’t get your money back.
I wasn’t here last year, did you fine folks discuss the significance of “swordfish“?
“I’d walk a mile for a calomel.” my fave.
I haven’t had my dose of joe yet, and “42″ is brain-locking me.
I know 21 of 42 is Chester A. Arthur elementary school.
42 . . . the Ultimate Answer to . . . Everything??
Your kung fu is strong, dancewosleeping.
Q: “is it safe?”
November 19th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Less of me, we actually never did discuss swordfish. Another one for the files!
November 19th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Yes, 42… is… the level to aspire to.
IS IT SAFE!!!!??? ADM (Ay Dios Mio) that movie gave me nightmares!
November 19th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I didn’t make anything of “swordfish” when I first watched, and I love the Marx Bros., but hadn’t seen Horsefeathers in three decades. But Don, Roger and Freddy in A Night at the Speakeasy amuses me now.
And #66 how about Marathon Mad Man with Roger as ‘Der weisse Engel’ and Pete in Dustin’s role? Don as Doc, mebbe? I could slop together a SNL sketch from this I think.
Saying “Marathon Man” makes my teeth hurt. Owweee.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am
… (And it doesn’t look like Henry has Don’s nasty habits either, so if anything, his chances of lasting longer are better.)
We do not know that.
Henry does happen to know a divorce attorney, have a college-aged daughter and no spouse. He also was not the one who suggested Reno, which implies that if he was divorced that it happened in New York state. He also has definite opinions about failing marriages based on his “You had to come to me. You are married.” speech.
It seems pretty likely that old Henry was divorced in New York state.
The divorce attorney listed the following reasons for that: infidelity, abandonment and mental illness. Henry’s attorney knows him better than Betty at this point and assumed that they were sleeping together. So, unless MW has a twist up his sleeve with the one of the other two options, there is a lot of evidence that Betty is looking at cheating spouse #2.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am
LOM,
I am firmly convinced that Olivier made Boys from Brazil to get back in good with The Tribe…
November 19th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
@68 Dean, So, unless MW has a twist up his sleeve with the one of the other two options, there is a lot of evidence that Betty is looking at cheating spouse #2.
It would serve us right after all this obsessing on Henry and Betty that their story retreats to the background next season.
Anyway, we don’t know any of Henry’s back story except that he grew up in Westchester County, is a highly-placed aide to Gov. Rockefeller, lives near the country club in Chappaqua, is an attorney, once had a job that involved moving furniture, and has a daughter in her early 20s who is in the same social circle as the Sterlings. He had a wife who — for all we know — could have died or run off with another man. He has a sense of propriety in that he doesn’t make a move on a married woman who is reluctant and when her reluctance is somewhat overcome, he offers marriage that includes her three children. So what is the evidence that he is a cad? Why assume that he intends to “cage” or objectify Betty? Why assume that he, not she, will be the instrument of hurt in their relationship, or even that it will be hurtful between them? If they marry, it will hurt and confuse the children and there will be consequences from that.
About Don’s income and money, keep in mind that the Drapers probably had an effective federal income tax rate between 50% and 70% on Don’s earned income (albeit that the $75k would have been reduced substantially by business expenses for tax purposes) and while the $500,000 most likely was treated as corporate income and taxed at a lower rate than salary, taxes still took a significant bite out of that check. (Also, I thought in the meeting when they agreed to sell, Bert said there was to be an initial payment of 20%, with the balance payable in equal installments over the next five years. This structure makes sense tax-wise, but was Don’s half-million his entire payment or only 20% of it? If he received only $100k to date, where was his share of the capital to buy the company back?)
November 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
It would serve us right after all this obsessing on Henry and Betty that their story retreats to the background next season.
For me, that would be the ideal outcome.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
If he received only $100k to date, where was his share of the capital to buy the company back?
They didn’t buy it back. They snatched $33 million in accounts, all the relevant files and art, a few key employees and high-tailed it over to a suite at the Pierre. Other than fronting some operating costs (rent at the Pierre, salaries, lots of drinks) until the billings rolled in, it didn’t cost them anything. An elegant plan!
As for Henry and Betty- I can see MW taking this in so many directions
1) Henry turns out to be exactly what he seems – a nice, slightly boring man who will be a devoted husband and good provider to Betty, whom he will marry as soon as the ink is dry on the divorce. Their story will fade into the background except for scenes where Don & Betty have to interact because of the kids
2) Betty decides NOT to marry Henry, but truly is using him as a temporary life-raft to get her through the divorce. She will come to her senses before the divorce is final and get a fair settlement out of Don, who will not fight her on any of it. He wants to provide for his children, after all. Maybe we see Betty’s continuing story as a divorcee and what that means for a woman of her station in 1964 and beyond, having to cope with the same Ossining bitchiness and isolation that Helen Bishop has put up with for so long.
3) Henry & Betty get married, and Betty discovers she has jumped from one frying pan to a another She finds she is just as unfulfilled with a nice boring faithful husband as she was with her previous unfaithful one, only this time she’s traded great sex for ho-hum sex. Does she discover that her unhappiness was not just Don’s fault after all, and DO something about it, or does she live out her life in sad and repressed desperation, an example of one of the women from the 1960s who couldn’t change with the times and release herself from her self-imposed prison. A sadder tale, but not necessarily an unrealistic one.
4) Henry and betty get married, and then she figures out that she knew just as little about Henry as she did about Don, and Henry turns out to be an even worse husband. Maybe she goes running back to Don for advice and help.
5) Henry and Betty get married, Betty becomes the high-powered socialite wife of high-powered political operative, which is really all Betty ever wanted to begin with and which she actually excels at. She and Don cross paths, and Don, seeing her finally developing into one of the strong, independent minded women he is so sexually attracted to, falls hopelessly in love with her all over again, this time for the right reasons, except too bad it’s way way too late. Betty has moved on.
Maybe I’ll just write Betty-and-Don fan fiction in my head for the next 9 months….
November 19th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Don (and one supposes Roger, Bert and possibly Lane) had an employment contract that specified severance in the event of termination by the company “other than for a compelling reason under US Labor law”
Wonder if they were collecting severance at the Pierre. That would be rich, wouldn’t it?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
“But Betty, who wanted out of that prison, still chooses the role of princess, and may be finding herself just changing towers. “
Um, Betty doesn’t really HAVE much of a choice. Her options are:
!. Stay with Don and keep living the soul-sucking lie with a man she knows she can’t trust or respect, and can’t even count on to stay
2. Become Helen Bishop, and get by on the alimony that still keeps her dependent on Don. In five years when baby Gene hits kindergarten, become Helen Bishop, working a crummy job and being lonely for adult company
3. Take a chance on Henry.
She has no people, no assets of her own other than some hazy future prospect of half the profits from the sale of Gene’s house, a ten-year-old MRS degree with no job experience, and a babe in arms. In her position, I find it hard to imagine myself not taking door #3.
November 19th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Joan? Good lord, could you misread Joan more? Joan doesn’t care about the money (although the money is an issue in her marriage.) Joan is a feminist in spite of herself. She is in command in every situation, and she needs some way to be recognized for that. SC, and now SCDP, know how much Joan is worth. She can run anything.
Apparently, Joan is in command of everything except her life. I feel that if she was really in command of her life, she would have never married Greg. She would have never swallowed that nonsense that she had to live the American Dream by becoming a “Domestic Goddess”. She would have never found herself begging Roger to find her a job. And that is why she has ended up with Sterling Cooper Draper and Pryce in the first place. Because she needed a job . . . for money. When Joan realizes that she doesn’t need to become Domestic Goddess in order to fulfill her life, I will finally be impressed by her.
If Joan was really that together as a person, why would Matt Weiner need her around to continue her storyline, next season?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
I wonder if Betty has any idea how much money she and Don have. That might have changed her perspective a little, assuming of course that she could get a nice fat settlement out of it. (And that might be a big assumption, unless she wanted to go the proving-adultery-in-a-court-of-law route) She probably has no idea how rich they are. He’s made far more money than Gene ever did, I suspect, or Betty would be inheriting a whole lot more than just half the proceeds of the Main Line house and a few furs.
Melissa, I don’t disagree with how you lay out Betty’s options, but just deferring to Henry’s ego and authority, and forgoing any settlement from Don puts her right back in the same position, except now she’s totally dependent on Henry.
I hope for her sake she comes to her senses about this, and at least gets herself a bit of financial freedom, especially now that Don’s told her he won’t fight her.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
We’ll see how the whole thing shakes out, but I suspect that her agreeing to no settlement probably had as at least as much to do with seizing the opportunity to get the whole mess over and done with more quickly as it did with deferring to Henry.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
@72 Gypsy, I know they walked off with as much of the company as they could carry out the door. (I’m going to miss that abstract painting in Don’s office!) But their first move was to approach Lane, with an offer to buy back SC for 112% of the price a year earlier. <That's the capital I was referring to.
I love your list of plot possibilities. Also, there’s a wild card about how her future step-daughter (who is 11 or 12 years her junior) will receive her (shades of Margaret/ Jane perhaps)?
About the Draper income, she must have some idea. They would have filed joint tax returns that she signed. When he was on the lam in California, she paid the bills, deposited his paychecks, and managed the household finances. She takes a dim view of his money management skills, as she tells him the night of the big reveal. Don probably has other accounts (one of those business credit cards where the billing does not come to the residence, perhaps?) and cash stashes that she doesn’t know about, such as the $2,500 bonus DD deposited in Midge’s cleavage.
I, too, am curious about what became of Gene’s money. Maybe Gene out spent his savings like Pete’s father, made bad investments, or her brother ran the business into the ground?
November 19th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
If Joan was really that together as a person, why would Matt Weiner need her around to continue her storyline, next season?
Matt Weiner needs Joan around because she is an interesting character, who doesn’t suck the energy out of every scene she’s in. (It doesn’t hurt that she’s beautiful, but beauty isn’t enough if a character is flat.)
Yes, she works for money–as she apparently has most of her life. If Joan only wanted a man for money, I doubt she would have a problem finding one. She wanted Greg because she wanted a man with a job she could be proud of; and she wanted a family. Knowing that she guessed wrong about him, she’s still trying to make the best of her commitment. And looking for work. No curling into a little ball of woe for her.
She’s obviously enjoying herself at SCDP & I look forward to her continued development next season.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
She would have never found herself begging Roger to find her a job.
I really didn’t see that scene as Joan begging Roger for a job. I thought she was really mature about it (and I’m sure she was swallowing lots of pride to make that call, which made me like her even more), contacting a man she knew was well-connected in the business world and who respected her talents. Today we would call that networking Notice she DIDN’T beg for her job back at SC, and in fact when Roger suggested it, she turned it down, explaining that she needs to make more money than SC had been paying her. If anything, I imagine Roger begged her to come to SCDP. “Joanie, I trust you, we need you, and we both know no one else can do this.”
Joan’s life isn’t turning out exactly the way she planned, but at every turn, I see her taking control and stepping up to do what it takes to make things right, whether it’s coaching her husband on an interview or networking to find a better-paying job.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
” But Don also strikes me as the kind of guy who would insist on sending a child support check whether she asks for it or not, just to keep participating in the pissing contest. ”
How in the world is providing money for the upkeep and support of your children partaking in a “pissing contest” ? And who would give someone money just to make them mad? That is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Don would probably insist on sending a check but it would be because he loves and cares about his children and their well-being. Even if Betty marries Henry and they live happily ever after, Gene, Sally and Bobby are Don’s children and will remain his children. He has a moral and possibly a legal responsibility to care for them and provide for them no matter what Henry Francis thinks or wants. Even if Henry does support Betty, that money could be more than useful for giving the children extras they might not have otherwise, for private schooling, for college and a number of other things. DOn can be a jerk at times (but who isn’t?) but he is very generous and most certainly would not give or view giving his children money as an act of spite.
As for the maturity issue and who has or has not matrured and how much, a very well-informed, educated elderly person once pointed out to me that everyone is immature sometimes. Maturity is not some static constant thing and it isn’t a know you have it, now you don’t thing. People who are generally fairly mature will have their moments where they behave in an immature way and even the most immature people have their mature moments and most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
As for the having sex before marriage issue, I agree with Roberta, there have always been shot-gun weddings, unmarried girls who went off to the “fat farm” or to visit family for 6-7 months after putting on some weight. No one person can know what EVERYONE did or didn’t do at any given time. There may have been more societal pressure to not do somethings and that would impact some people more than others but people are people and they have always had sex and always will, whether they are marries or not. Also, sometimes people lie or over report what they do or don’t do and it wouldn’t suprise me if some people who swear they never had sex before marriage actually did but didn’t want to tell anyone and because of the social stigma they didn’t and sometimes memory is a funny thing and people might not purposely forget or lie but may misremember what they actually did to align it better with their image of who they were. Didn’t the Kinsey report give some evidence that everyone wasn’t wearing a chastity belt quite as much as we all assume. And on this show itself we have probably seen more extramarital sex acts than sex acts between married people. I wasn’t alive at the time and times and mores change but human nature doesn’t and there is nothing new under the sun.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Gypsy @ 72 and 76,
Before they took back the company, they offered to buy it back at 112% of the previous sales price. Pryce said, “It’s too late.” It’s the capital behind that offer I was referring to.
I like your list. Another wrinkle is how Henry’s daughter will receive a step-mother only 11 or 12 years her senior (shades of Margaret/ Jane?).
Does Betty know how much money Don has? Probably not all of it. Surely he set up one of those “business account” credit cards, where the bills don’t come to the house, and a checking account to pay that bill. He may have other cash caches besides the office desk drawer. Then there was to deposit of $2,500 into Midge’s cleavage. But Betty must sign a joint tax return with DD, and when he was on the lam in California she deposited his pay check and paid the bills. She remarks on his money management as indicative of his childhood poverty. So I think she has some idea of the income.
I’m not seeing how Betty can obtain any measure of financial “freedom” via Don because if she is dependent on Don for support she is in his power, just as if she depends on Henry for support then she is in Henry’s power.
Sorry if this is a double post in part. I tried to submit an earlier version that didn’t appear.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Gypsy, you forgot plot
6) Betty is planning her wedding to Henry but he gets cold feet. The public outcry against Rockefeller’s divorce and then immediate marriage to a woman with kids (there was a HUGE storm about that, too) tells Henry that to get hitched with a married woman with kids would be career suicide. So he drops her like hot potato.
Why do I think that? Because Henry looks shifty. The only reason Betty finds him attractive is some half-imagined air of importance that he carries from his political connections. She’ll find out soon enough.
Meanwhile, Don will come back from a California trip with long hair and a beard and beads. And Betty will miss him. Oh, she’ll always be there to whip up plotlines like a Mister Frostee cone.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
If Don ditches the business suit, I don’t see anything too faddish.
Maybe a workshirt, Levi’s, scruffy workboots & a battered leather jacket. If he’s moved Out West, substitute scruffy cowboy boots & one piece of silver jewelry.
Think Young Michael McClure–one of the younger Beats who carried his dark magic into later counterculture developments. http://www.beatmuseum.org/mcclure/MichaelMcClure.html
November 19th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Dark Peggy @80 — As for the maturity issue and who has or has not matrured and how much, a very well-informed, educated elderly person once pointed out to me that everyone is immature sometimes. Maturity is not some static constant thing and it isn’t a know you have it, now you don’t thing. People who are generally fairly mature will have their moments where they behave in an immature way and even the most immature people have their mature moments and most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
In the New Zealand public radio interview, there is a delightful passage where MW talks about how an individual has within him/her self the person they were and perspectives they had at 6 or 14 or 20 or 40, as he describes two men in their 80s who meet every day at a cafe secretly hoping that good looking young women will hit on them.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Bornin50 – happily, I’ve never had to weed through the divorce settlement minefield, but I was thinking (possibly erroneously) that Betty might finagle some lump sum distribution of their likely-considerable assets, plus outright ownership of the house, and in consideration of that forego on-going alimony payments. I would assume that Don would make child support payments either way, as he IS still their father and surely wants to see to their well-being. But I might be all wrong about how these things happen even today, let alone 40+ years ago.
Yes, stepmother would be interesting role-reversal for Betty. I wonder how she’ll take to being the “Gloria” in that relationship? Don’t touch those jardinieres!
Bluelight- oh, that’s just evil! And so deliciously soapy.
I will state here and now, though, that I NEVER want to see Don Draper in lovebeads, bellbottoms, nehru jackets, ruffled shirts or wide op-art ties. And long sideburns are completely out of the question. I’m talkin’ to YOU, Matt Weiner.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
not_B – I am totally down with that. In fact, I am in love with that.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
@85 Gypsy, For sure Betty wouldn’t have had any idea what SC was worth as a business asset (now it’s about $32 million for cash flow purposes and as to capital stock, nobody knows).
It was interesting that initially Betty spoke right up for herself and said she wanted what she was legally entitled to, and that she gave it up so quickly when Henry intervened. Hmmm.
I don’t know anything either about legal obligations for child support but I would like to think that if Betty rejects DD’s help with the children’s expenses that he would set up trusts they can access when they are adults. If anything is genuine and authentic about Don, he loves his children even though often his actions disregard them utterly.
And I’m totally with you: Nix on the love beads, bell bottoms, ruffled or floral shirts or ties, and especially nix the sideburns! Don didn’t get out of uniform among the beatniks and he would be ridiculously, laughably out of place with or sartorially emulating the hippies, even for purposes of market research. This is my real live 18-year-old self speaking about “old guys” dressing up and making utter fools of themselves trying to pick up hippie chicks in 1968.
November 19th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
A settlement, which is what the lawyer was asking about, what Betty was referring to when she said “whatever I’m entitled to,” and what Henry didn’t want, is completely separate from child support. Neither Henry nor Betty said they didn’t want Don to support his children.
November 19th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
That is true, Melissa.
November 19th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
#52 – I wasn’t disagreeing. I was joking with freelance about the ways things changed but thought maybe it was just because the south is… a little strange sometimes.
l-o-m – those posts about looking at Betty as a character are really wonderful. May I borrow them?
gypsy – you’re so good at coming up with various scenarios for Betty. What I hope is that SCDP gets the focus in the coming year. More Pete and Peggy and Joan, please!
Douglas Adams knew one of The Monkees.
November 19th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
“I will state here and now, though, that I NEVER want to see Don Draper in lovebeads, bellbottoms, nehru jackets, ruffled shirts or wide op-art ties. And long sideburns are completely out of the question.”
Oooh, this presents us with a dilemma. Don’s air of gravitas would be thoroughly compromised by bellbottoms. I don’t want to think of it.
But we still have a few years left. For most American men, lean suits and skinny neckties were still the order of the day till 1969 or so. Then the waists began pinching in a little bit, the lapels began to spreadeagle, the neckties began to broaden….
…. and then came the horror of the muttonchop mustache.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
@ Gypsy, Bluelight:
There is another option.
7. Betty divorces Don. Betty rejects Don’s money per Henry. Betty marries Henry. SCD&P becomes enormously successful. Henry has career struggles and has money problems. Henry resents her children. Don becomes rich and Betty needs to ask him for money.
It would be interesting to see the class dynamic between them inverted. Don has always been the “poor kid” who married above his station in life. Betty has always been his main-line “princess”.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
BornIn50, I love that Matt Weiner bit about the selves we still have inside of us. So true.
The six-year-old me is still there (and most days, like Sally Draper, she’s driving; she finally has the world she wanted and is openly tickled by that), as is the 14-year-old, the 20-year-old, and the 40-year-old.
The 14-year-old — judgmental, not all that hard working, awkward — thinks every day is a shock and a surprise. She hates it. She’s annoyed. She tries to act bored to cover it up. Yeah, you guys. She totally knew this was all gonna happen.
The 20-year-old is happy-stunned. She is astounded the nuclear holocaust didn’t happen (“Yet,” she keeps saying … “YET”), she’s not sure about people keeping phones in their pockets, but what’s really weird? Writing. Makes. Money. She’s doing well on a couple of liberal arts degrees.
A tax guy. She has a tax guy. I mean … (snicker)
And our President! He’s like something she made up when she was 12 and still thought the best kid got to be President! That happened!
The 40-year-old is three now. Impatient, like every other three-year-old. But generally, doing well.
As for my 80-year-old self, I imagine sitting in one of those old-fashioned rest-home-cafes, 40 years from now. Guy shuffles up, sits down at the table near me. Sets down his cane. Takes off his Blues baseball cap (thanks, cataract surgery!).
I stand up. This takes about 10 minutes but I do it.
I navigate my walker over to his table (another 20), and say, “Having me in your life is gonna change things.”
He turns his head. Almost looks up. “‘Scuse me?”
“I said, ‘HAVING ME IN YOUR LIFE IS GONNA CHANGE THINGS.’”
“What?”
I sigh. “I used to love your show.”
He looks up. Smiles. “So did I.”
May you get hit on in cafes for many decades to come, Jon Hamm.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:04 am
How in the world is providing money for the upkeep and support of your children partaking in a “pissing contest” ?
Pissing contest goes like this:
- Henry tells Betty not to accept any money from Don.
- Don sends child support checks anyway.
- Henry tells Betty not to cash the checks, and she doesn’t cash them.
- Don keeps sending checks anyway and wants to know why they haven’t been cashed.
- Henry tells him not to bother sending checks.
- Don keeps sending checks anyway.
Betty, who probably wants as little to do with Don as possible, is on Henry’s side of the argument. But it would continue thusly even if she wasn’t. Hence “pissing contest.” The phrase has nothing to do with whether or not the kids are objectively better off with the extra money (yes) or whether Don is thinking of his childrens’ welfare (also yes). It’s still an exercise in head-butting between two males (since Don could accomplish much the same thing by establishing trust funds for his kids and/or slipping them cash when he visits).
And I still say that if money was what Betty cared about most, she wouldn’t even think about leaving. Who cares how poor he was starting out, since he’s far from poor now, even not counting the bonuses and spiff from the S-C sale? And she helped him build that; it’s a fortune she’s walking away from, because she wants something he can never give her.
I also don’t think it’s unconditional worship she’s after. Henry has already called BS on her a couple of times, once when he didn’t show up for the fundraiser and she threw the box at him, and once when she called him about the hangup call and he told her not to toy with him. The difference is, Henry knows how to call BS on her without belittling or condescending to her. So he’s boring as toast, big whoop. She’s probably had enough of Mr. Excitement for one lifetime.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:50 am
Reno divorces had to be agreed on by both parties. Usually they & their lawyers hashed out a settlement first–especially if children or a considerable estate were involved. Afterward, one party went to Reno for 6 weeks to establish residency, then filed for divorce. After the landlady testified she’d seen the plaintiff every day for 6 weeks, the divorce was usually made final in about 2 weeks–with very little trouble.
Henry definitely jumped the gun; hope is isn’t so “premature” in other areas. Perhaps he figured he–or another attorney friend–would just write up the agreement he wanted. Then Don would sign it. The divorce could exclude child support & give full custody to Betty–without even visitation; I doubt even Poor Betty would agree to that. Henry definitely wanted Betty to take no alimony or any other financial settlement for herself. Thus, she would be beholden to him–with a quick marriage her only choice.
After Henry got Betty situated in Reno, he probably returned to New York. How long would it take her to realize she was not in Ossining any more? Reno was full of lawyers who could help her get a fair settlement from Don. Even including their fees, since Henry’s “allowance” probably wouldn’t cover them.
Or maybe Betty realized in that lawyer’s office that she would take Henry’s help to escape, then arrange things herself. After all, “her people” supposedly know how to handle money.
Maybe she’ll even learn to ride Western style. She’d look cute in cowgirl duds–& might even learn to smile. http://www.wantedcowgirls.com/images/RenoBrowne-1-2.jpg
(OK, we really need Fanfiction: Betty’s Adventures in Reno.)
November 20th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Should be: “hope he is isn’t so “premature” in other areas”
November 20th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Grrrr…I’m so pissed at my DVR!!! I was going to watch the last ep this morning after reading this thread…BUT THE STUPID DVR HAD ERASED ALL MY RECORDED SHOWS!!!!
November 20th, 2009 at 9:04 am
bTW, sorry about the all caps shouting. I was going to say that, but my hand slipped (or something, it’s a rough morning) and #98 posted.
When does S3 come out on DVD?
November 20th, 2009 at 9:40 am
@ #59 Meowser: First of all, LOVE your name! Secondly, you posted:
“I don’t think Henry is that old. People looked older then.” That is so true! I have a cookbook from 1956 — Mary Alden’s cookbook for kids or something like that — There are pictures of the children who tested the recipes and these 12-year-olds look like 45. Why was that???
November 20th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
“People looked older then.”
Indeed. Take a look at a high school yearbook from that era. The high school seniors look like bank presidents.
And that reminds me of something all of a sudden! There are no women wearing harlequin glasses in Mad Men. That was still a going fashion statement into the mid-Sixties.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Well meowser, I guess we just have a difference of opinon b/c even though I have no doubt Don would send money for the kids whether he was asked to or not, whether the money was desired or not, and if the money wasn’t spent he’d probably give it directly to the kids when they got older and I don’t think he’d provide the money and turn it into a spite thing. He just doesnt’ seem like the type to use his kids as a pawn like that. Then again, you never know, sometimes divorce can bring out the worst in the nicest people.
Have a great Thanksgiving all, I’m going on vacation today and will be in St. Martin all week so I won’t get to read any of these awesome posts and comments for a week. Hope you all have much turkey and triptophan induced naps.
November 21st, 2009 at 10:26 pm
@100 — Mama Louise There are pictures of the children who tested the recipes and these 12-year-olds look like 45. Why was that?
Hey, I was 12 in 1962 and looked 45 and I still do (I wish!) And by the way, I agree with Meowser, Henry is about 45. Wouldn’t that be about the age of the real Don Draper?
@101 — BlueLight, By the early 60s cat’s eye and harlequin glasses were going out and more rectangular and oblong shapes (very much like styles now) were coming in, with very dark frames and pearly pastels for the ladies. You might have seen Olive still wearing harlequin glasses in 1963, but not Hildy.
January 19th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Betty also did not opt for the abortion. And she was clear, at least in her own mind, that she really, really wanted one.
That last scene reminded me of the last scene in Alan Rudolph’s Choose Me. Lesley Ann Warren is sitting in the bus from Vegas, next to her new groom, Keith Carradine–an escapee from the looney bin.
In her eyes, the dawning thought: “What have I done?”