After the trauma of the JFK assassination last week, Mad Men‘s finale takes a much lighter approach. Consistent with its title, Shut the Door. Have a Seat offered viewers a comfortable chair (or Wentworth) to cool down in after the wild ride of Season Three. That’s not to say important things didn’t happen. They did. And there’s still a lot to be resolved (Sal’s future, most notably). But more loose character threads were tied up than left dangling. In some cases, I felt these threads were a little too neatly mended as Don, Bert and Roger get “the band” back together. But, perhaps more on that another time.
A common element running throughout Shut the Door. Have a Seat was the idea of losing one’s blinders of blissful ignorance to the shocking light of reality. This is done by literally depicting many of the characters being jolted out of a deep sleep.
In fact, the first shot of the episode shows Don waking up. He’ll be facing many surprises this episode: Betty’s affair, the sale of PPL, Peggy’s bitterness toward him, the fact that he really likes the ad biz, etc. Bert complains to Don about being woken up for an “emergency” meeting at Sterling Cooper. When Bert expresses reluctance about buying the company back, a frustrated Don tells him to go “back to sleep.” There’s a glass of milk on Bert’s coffee table that’s echoed later when Carla gives the Draper children milk before being putting them to bed.
Pete scrambles to find his pajamas when Don and Roger pay a surprise visit to his apartment. Ostensibly, it’s to support his claim of being sick. But, the hurried manner in which Pete throws on his robe is consistent with someone gathering themselves after being thrust awake.
An offhand comment by Roger forces Don to “wake up” to what’s really been going on with Betty for the last few months. And when Don does confront Betty about Henry Francis, he gets her out of bed.
After the heavy scene with Don and the children and what must certainly seem to her as the “tawdry” manner in which she’s dissolving her marriage, Betty sits on a plane to Reno contemplating the larger journey ahead with a less than enthusiastic expression on her face . Conversely, Henry Francis, in the seat next to her, is seems fast asleep.
286 Responses to “Rude Awakenings”
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I've seen this several places, but Henry Francis wasn't asleep on that plane. He was looking down, but his overhead light was shining right in his face and he was moving (albeit subtly) – I figured he was reading or working on something.
I agree with this post, but I'd like to posit that Pete was not sleeping — he's already "awake" to the realties, and makes Don speak to that fact when he asks "I want to hear it from HIM." This is why he had his meeting at Oglivy. Yes?
First post. I agree that the loose ends were a little too neatly tied up, this is the first episode I thought felt contrived… and with all the recent shots at the Art department lately, they've opened a big ol' hole for Sal to come back in. Or maybe not, since SCDP will still have the Lucky Strike account. I'm interested to see how they deal with the troops that they left behind (Ken, Kinsey, Hildy, etc.). Either way, they've certainly kept my attention. Can't wait for S4
To your point, Matt, about tying up the loose ends too cleanly (except for Sal): with this episode and everything since 3:06, I feel like the show woke up, too. Things moved so slowly in the first few episodes (except for Sal) that it was almost like the caffeine kicked in at the writer's room.
Does anyone else have the sense that this season can be divided into two parts?
Also, Bert saying to Don when he comes in to his office to tell him of the sale of PPL/SC – "What's so important you had to wake me?" Significant on several levels, in the theme you've noted, and in the sense that Bert had essentially been preparing himself for obsolescence. And particularly in light of the 'golden tomb' line in that very scene.
I found it interesting that Don had to hear the worst from other sources twice- he heard about the end of his work home from Connie, and heard about the end of his real home from Roger. And it took hearing from two people whom he hadn't valued much at the beginning of the episode, to shake him up on both counts. Don did wake up indeed- but it took two kicks in the pants first, from the two people he probably least expected.
# 1 Geocrackr… for the sake of argument, I'll changes "is" to "seems" I watched it twice and Henry certainly appears to be sleeping. Which bookends neatly with the opening shot of Don.
# 2 Darrin… I don't disagree. I'd only nuance it to say that getting the offer certainly takes Pete by surprise.
#3 Mason… I was really surprised about Sal being left out (no pun intended). But he's gotta show up in S4.
Apparently I hadn't read the post carefully enough. haha
I'm sure they can easily find ways to bring Cosgrove, Kinsey, Sal, and even some receptionists into the new company. Kinsey immediately went to see if Don had taken Peggy instead of him (which was pretty hilarious), and was obviously upset by it. He'll be chomping at the bit to get into the new agency. Cosgrove could be a bit trickier. You don't really know with that guy, but if he gets treated poorly at McCann, he could always jump ship. As for Sal, they'll need an art director – but with Lucky Strike on board, who knows if they can do it. And I think we can agree that Joan would have the power to sway every SC secretary to come work for her at the new place, especially after they've had to deal with Hooker.
So it's all more or less wrapped up in a nice neat little package. I wouldn't be surprised if we jump ahead more than a year again for next season, and that way we can see the new company somewhat established already.
Matt, this is marvelous; the sort of thing you do best. Tying all the awakenings together, and also noticing exactly what Don is awakening to. I love this: "Peggy’s bitterness toward him" — I think it's smart to point out that Don was asleep to this. He literally was unaware that she felt that way. Don is only in the nascent stages of discovering that his actions affect others. It is why he can be unfaithful with such impunity; he is not perceiving (and I've said this for years) that Betty is affected by his affairs.
Mason, welcome.
Brenda, I see episodes 3.01-3.05 as having a tightly thematic birth-death motif. http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/09/08/mad-men-sea…
Then, with the foot amputation (3.06) we leap into an "everything changes, everything is unexpected" theme with a vengeance.
If the second, faster period started with the leg amputation- then isn't it even more fitting that Roger commented on how the SCDP founders "shot their legs off" right after getting fired?
I hope the show brings in some new characters in season 4. As much as I'd miss Sal and Paul, the show needs fresh blood. Realistically, I can see Sal coming back as freelance director (for non-Lucky commercials).
Speaking of which, Don's smoker's cough is beginning to worry me. Seems we've heard it several times (have we always?) as well as heard a crow. Has anyone else heard a crow?
SCDP needs a better acronym – SterLing CoopEr DrAper Pryce – LEAP. I amuse myself thinking that the new firm will leap ahead on execs having to do for themselves because they can't afford much support staff. Lane could insist. Joan could overtake Harry if her husband is posted overseas and she has an empty home. Pete could discover Peggy's Duck. Pete and Peggy still have unfinished biz – note her "Really?" comment about Clearasil.
Yes, perhaps too neat, but so much fun! I feel rewarded for watching all season. Agree on the wake-up analogy – thanks, Matt.
Joan can be Harry's assistant again! He can't do it alone, and she already knows the job. She can be office manager/script reader.
When Don calls Betty a whore and the baby wakes up–did this remind anyone of the very first flashback of the season in episode one?
In that flashback the baby cries, but I can't remember if anyone says the word "prostitute" or anything like it. Of course, Don's real mother was a prostitute so Don's use of the word is definitely loaded.
The two scenes seem to rhyme for me.
Idle hunches:
– Don & Betty aren't over. For one thing, January Jones is now a big star. And the Henry Francis guy has zero appeal.
– The tobacco heir who ruined Sal's career, that's GOT to come back. I forget the actor's name, but he had some presence. If they don't mine the vengeance factor on this storyline, then they're not paying attention.
– When does California come back into the story? During Don't previous visits, they seemed to be laying some groundwork (his interest in hot rods, etc) for him to be hiking back out there.
– Does anybody on this green planet have better posture than Peggy?
PS: Didn't everyone feel all toasty and secure once Miss Holloway entered the game again?
I agree that this episode seemed contrived. However, it was so fun that I forgave MW for that. The heartbreaking scenes with the kids were just perfect, however. I had that scene played out when I was a teenager, and I reacted just like Sally. Spot on.
I'm an anagram dork and #12 above with the acronym idea put me in a playful mood. So, I will play Nostradamus (which BTW anagrams to "Don's traumas") and predict that given the office space and budget contraints at STERLING COOPER DRAPER PRYCE…that it's inevitable that…ROGER TRIPS ON RECYCLED PAPER.
It's anybody's guess who will wind up at the new Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce (and possibly, Campbell).
It makes sense that some from Sterling Cooper would initially be left out.
Bert, Roger and Don made it clear to everyone they approached, that it was a top-secret/time-sensitive situation. The more people who are asked, the greater the risk that word could leak out, scuttling the thing before they can get fully underway. So, the core group would need to be small, for the sake of successfully establishing this new agency. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a place where others in the show could then land, once Season Four begins.
A big "loose end" (to me anyway) is where Peggy's joining of the new SCDL (and possibly C), will leave the "Peggy-Duck" relationship.
It would appear to be over, now that Peggy won't be headed over to Grey, but then you never know about these things – I mean, look at James Carville & Mary Matalin! They're from totally opposite camps politically, but are happily together, romantically.
I liked the happy ending. Far more so than last years Leaving Pete With A Gun finale. (And I LOVED that finale…but today, I feel like I'm on a sorta high.) Also, I liken it to real life, when you come to a conclusion of a miraculous story and you have to say, "…and to think it never would have happened unless: A, B and C."
Things like that DO happen.
Huh. "A thing like that."
I'm not sure that I agree with everyone who has argued that this episode was contrived. The entire coup stemmed from Don, who could imagine nothing worse than being hired as a cog at McCann. Having to answer to PPL was hard enough for him–just imagine him having to face up to ceding even more control, even if he were given a token leadership role at McCann. And this at the same time as he loses control of his home life and family? I think that it was entirely consistent with Don/Dick's character to make him do something that on the face seems brash and desperate. Perhaps it was heavy handed, but again it seems quite consistent with what we should expect from Don given how much his status as Master-Of-His-Own-Universe has been threatened over the course of this season. From the invasion of Grandpa Gene in his home, Cooper steamrolling him into signing a contract, Connie's overbearing presence and demands, Betty's discovery about Dick Whitman, right through to the McCann buyout, everything in this season threatened Don's control. I think it's only natural that he saw an obsessive desire to get back into control, and put his selling skills to the ultimate test in order to get Roger, Cooper, Lane, Peggy and Pete on board. He was willing to do anything to get back some semblance of control, and by extension, to get back some of his lost freedom.
Hi,
Contrived, a bit campy, but so much fun!
Did anyone wonder about the open door to the art room ? Will Sal "come out of the closet ?"
I thought that Henry Francis was asleep. He had an odd look of serenity as he slept.
He is splitting up two families and yet he is sleeping like a baby. Betty may be in for her own rude awakening with him.
Can't wait for S4, and I'm quite sure they won't skip ahead in time, since 1964 had a couple of events that seemed poised to affect SCDP, as well as Betty Draper and her new beau. In January 1964, the damaging Surgeon's General Report on smoking was released, and with 75% of the new firm's billings tied up with American Tobacco, it should be cataclysmic…. (and Yes, I heard another poster mention Don's recurring smoker's cough.) And Rocky's run for President in 1964 hit the shoals, as Goldwater was much stronger than expected, and Rocky's divorce turned out to be a huge issue with GOP voters. Goldwater's ascension turned out to be the end of the liberal GOP in the Northeast. The life and prospects of Henry Francis will take a huge hit by May, 1964.
I think it has to be SCD&P, like BBD&O. (Yes, I know some people say BBDO but it always sounds too short handy.)
One thing I found interesting is that Roger is repeatedly getting grief about Jane, first from Roger, then from Bert, and he does not punch either one of them in the nose. Likewise, what happens when Jane finds out Joan is back? Or will she be too much in a fog?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU4e2lxsG_8
In January 1964, the damaging Surgeon’s General Report on smoking was released, and with 75% of the new firm’s billings tied up with American Tobacco, it should be cataclysmic….
Could be… but those tobacco companies are still in business. And remember that snake Lee Jr idly talking about diversifying into another business (movies? can't recall) My point is, even after the surgeon general's report, the tobacco companies thrived, I think. But, our SCDP (oh how I love typing that!) boys and girls are going to have to hustle, aren't they? I can't wait to watch.
Another milk tie in-The very first scene of this season was off Don warming milk.
Lots of parenting references.
Count me with the posters who didn't feel that the episode was contrived. I agree that sometimes things like this do happen and they are very satisfying when they do. How ironic that it was a memory of his father that spurred Don to action.
Again, I loved the finale.
One other 'current' event from 1964, was the British Invasion, highlighted by the Beatles. I remember it well, and what I most remember was that the sadness and pall following the JFK assasination continued through Thanksgiving weekend, and then, on the first Monday of December, at 6:30 am, the Beatles were introduced on every radio station. It was a magnificent marketing program that would be impossible to replicate today — you just couldn't time that kind of introduction. No doubt, Pete, and his intuit regarding the teen market, will be a big player — I wonder if he'll sport a Beatle's haircut by the end of S4
Too bad Virginia Slims was/is not a brand of American Tobacco, or else I'd predict that Peggy comes up with the "You've come a long way baby…" campaign (in which womens' lib was used to encourage females to equalize with their male counterparts in lung cancer, heart attacks, strokes and empysema.)
(Sorry for dwelling on the historical tie-ins, but that aspect of the show is what makes it so compelling to me. I'm just old enough to remember what went on in the early 60s.)
As far as the contrivance criticism… I'm quite sure Weiner started his plot outiline for S3, with this final show in mind… and then he used the rest of the season to make the finale a fait accompli. That's why everything fell into place so well.
# 18 Sir Hillary has seen the future! Here's my season finale recap:
Sensational
Caper
Dramatized
Pied a terre
>>My point is, even after the surgeon general’s report, the tobacco companies thrived, I think. But, our SCDP (oh how I love typing that!) boys and girls are going to have to hustle, aren’t they?<<
Yes, but cataclysmic can also mean "bringing about fundamental change," and to mitigate erosion in their traditional male demographic, the tobacco companies responded in the 60s by expanding other groups — markets, youth, woman and minorities, so Pete and Peggy will have real value vs Roger the Dinosaur. It was not until 1970 that radio and tv tobacco ads were banned.
I agree that this season seemed to have two parts—the second half reminded me much more of S1+2, while the first half had a certain soap opera-quality to it…I also agree that the season finale was a bit too contrived—reminded me that this is television after all–but I have come to expect a little bit more from Mad Men…still by far the best show on TV, tho. As a fan of mid-century modern furniture, I am also dismayed that they left Sterling/Cooper behind for an decidedly un-mid-century modern hotel room. I hope S4 starts with them in new digs decorated like Sterling-Cooper. That style was prevalent until the mid-60s or so…
Great observations, Matt and other posters! For me, much of this episode, and really the season as a whole — was about waking up, snapping out of your "fog" and seeing others for who the really are, and trying to be honest with yourself about what you want out of life, what you're willing to live with and without.
For me, the most significant moment in last night's episode was Don's waking up of Betty. He called her a whore. At that moment, Betty was transformed in his eyes from the perfect angel to someone who was no better than he was, a child of a whore. The coldness and the cruelty of that comment woke Betty up literally, but woke Don up figuratively. The illusions he had about her are gone, and whatever "power" she had over him — her breeding, her beauty, her seeming perfection and superiority to him — vanished.
I didn't catch the whole "waking up" element of this episode but what I DID notice running through out the whole show was the element of valuing relationships. Even though Roger was talking to Don about not valuing (and then suddenly valuing) their working relationship, I interpreted it as a metaphor for all of Don's relationships and how he values them. First with his wife, then Peggy and also Peter. Maybe the "wake up" could also be applied to Don "waking up" to just how important his relationships in his life really are for him.
# 24 – "I think it has to be SCD&P, like BBD&O."
Legendary radio comedian, Fred Allen, once noted that the name of the famous advertising firm, Batten, Barton, Durstine and Osborn, "sounded like a steamer trunk falling down a flight of stairs."
One aspect that caught my attention was how excellent (as usual) Draper was in his choice of words to enlist Cooper, Pryce, Pete and Peggy (after he had a day to think about it), but was totally tongue-tied trying to talk to his kids. (When Bobby interjected, "Are you leaving because I lost your cufflink?" Don replies, "No. It has nothing to do with you," and then tries to soften it with, "That's not what I meant.") How ironic that Draper knows exactly what to say to adults, but mis-speaks when addressing children.
#25 love that song – I checked Roy Orbison released it in 1963 in an album called "In Dreams"
Guess that goes along with our awakening theme.
good post all
oops – meant to say the song at the closing credits called "Shahdaroba"
I don't understand the speculation on how they're going to bring all those other SC workers over into SCD&P. What would they want them for? They don't need them, and they are explicitly starting a new kind of company.
They can't hire Sal because of the Lucky Strike account. This points to a gaping logic hole in this contrived plot: there's not enough creative talent. This is NOT how splinter ad agencies get formed, with three elderly figureheads, a creative director, a "media director", whatever that is, an office manager, and a grand total of ONE actual creative: a copywriter. No artists? None, really? Roger makes a little sense, I guess, because of his relationship to Lucky Strike, but seriously, what the hell does Bert bring? Or Lane, aside from making it possible by firing them?
I've read a few ad books recently, and what really happens is a copywriter, an accounts guy, and an art guy jump ship and set up in a sleazy office somewhere. Don makes sense, but not these other guys. Don + Sal + Pete, or something. Maybe just Don and Sal. SCD&P has too many managers and not enough worker bees.
Not that that sort of thing doesn't happen; I worked for a company once (not in advertising) that was started by a bunch of friends who worked like slaves for a few years, became successful, promoted themselves to management, and sat in the office with their feet up on their desks while the company (now missing its vital shop-floor spark) fell apart.
Oh, and who's the media buyer here, who's going to buy space in Life and Ebony for these Clearasil and Lucky Strike ads. Maybe that's what Harry does, for TV, but who's buying the magazine pages?
The episode had a bit too much of a "hey, the gang's all here; let's put on a show in the barn!" feel. Also: a hotel, really? With beds? New enterprises don't need beds, they need OFFICES, with desks and chairs and filing cabinets.
I found this exchange very interesting:
Don: Who the hell is Henry Francis?
Betty: No one.
Really?
At lot of things did come together to get most of the core group together, but I'm not assuming Ken and Paul, or even Sal, are going to be lured. This might really be the team Don wants. He might have really chose Pete over Ken, which is what Pete actually deserves this time. He probably did chose Peggy over Paul, and we saw why recently — she is simply better at her job.
I really want Sal back, but Don seems to have made a choice there, and Roger made it clear in the Pete scene that the Garners must be kept happy.
I think we're going to do a nice time jump again, maybe a couple years. Might need a new Sally, and that makes me sad. Loved Kiernan's acting this episode — she channeled something very real there.
Deborah said: "he is not perceiving (and I’ve said this for years) that Betty is affected by his affairs."
So true! Roger said it best this week – Don doesn't understand/appreciate relationships.
We can see from the flashbacks that he has no lessons in relationships of any kind – and his primary parental relationships were a disaster. Don's smile at the end (to me) represented a kind of, "oh. This is what is is about – people. I see how relationships don't have to be painful."
Count me with the people who DON'T think it was contrived at all. It had to go down fast – 48 hours or so – so the pace was perfectly realistic. I loved it!
#34, SmilerG, I loved Fred Allen! When I was growing up, our town had a station that would play old radio shows on Sunday night. I thought he had style and a wonderful dry wit.
#39 riverdaughter, remember when Suzanne Farrell called Don at home as Betty was going into labor. She asked, "who was that" and he said, "no one"? Maybe it's Draper code for obfuscation.
>>what the hell does Bert bring? Or Lane, aside from making it possible by firing them?<<
Bert brings money. Roger brings 75% of the initial billings and Lane was just in the right place at the right time.
The underlying premise is that Don Draper is the most coveted creative mind in the business. Art can be had free-lance for awhile. And it's also possible to place print media through strictly a media-buying business and split commissions.
The most celebrated Boston ad agency, Hill, Holliday, Connors & Cosmopoulos began 40 years ago, but Holliday (copy?) was gone in just a few months, and Tony Hill was a minor player before leaving. Jack Connors was an account guy, and Starvros Cosmopoulos was Creative Director — they appeared to have used Hill & Holliday primarily for their names, and, indeed, everyone referred to the agency as Hill, Holliday.
Yep, It had to be speedy. And yet…
I wish they had taken more time. Now we have to wait until next August to see if they ever move out of that hotel room, what will happen when Betty gets off that plane in Reno, whether Paul and Smitty get an invite.
Maddening.
Brenda: perhaps.
Or. maybe Betty's interest in Henry is transitional. She seems hesitant about accepting his offere of assistance. I'm hoping that Weiner doesn't drop Betty into the fire from the frying pan.
I was really disturbed by Don lighting into Betty like that. No surprised. Just very, very troubled. I don't think Betty has rejected him because he's not good enough for her. She's rejecting him because as she says, she was never enough. He's lucky she didn't grab her shotgun on him all of the other times he screwed up and if she ever finds out about Suzanne…
Betty and Henry are going nowhere. There's nothing there. Betty's only interested in him because he's interested in her, and he's only interested in her because….uh, who the hell knows? Because she's a hottie? They've exchanged what, 100 words with each other in toto? He felt her belly once, and they kissed a couple of times. But Henry's no more emotionally connected than Don was; remember "everything's going to be fine" from both of them. And when he finds out that Betty doesn't have a personality, he's going to be straying just as far as Don did in a few years.
I picture Betty by 1972 as a slightly leathery, husky-voiced divorcee with a ciggie in one hand and a tequila sunrise in the other, wearing a flourescent patterned muu-muu and a matching turban.
# 42 – "I loved Fred Allen! When I was growing up, our town had a station that would play old radio shows on Sunday night. I thought he had style and a wonderful dry wit."
Back when Game Show Network used to run vintage episodes of "What's My Line," I always enjoyed the ones that featured Fred Allen on the panel.
In the Golden Age of Radio, networks sold hour, half-hour or fifteen-minute blocks of time to the ad agencies, who would then package shows with stars and single sponsors. Fred Allen was always stirring up trouble with the network and the ad agency, when they would attempt to censor him or "dumb down" his show.
It's said that Fred Allen hated televison, saying that it is called a medium because "nothing on it is ever well done."
He was right, of course, but I think he might see Mad Men as an exception.
For me, the most significant moment in last night’s episode was Don’s waking up of Betty. He called her a whore. At that moment, Betty was transformed in his eyes from the perfect angel to someone who was no better than he was, a child of a whore. The coldness and the cruelty of that comment woke Betty up literally, but woke Don up figuratively. The illusions he had about her are gone, and whatever “power†she had over him — her breeding, her beauty, her seeming perfection and superiority to him — vanished.
Betty's illusions of Don are certainly gone. And I get the feeling that Don's "whore" comment was his attempt to project his own self-loathing upon her, because her relationship with Henry Francis had shattered his illusions.
I agree that the finale was contrived but I somehow liked it better for that. Like Weiner got off his high horse and admitted that he was writing a tv show and it should, like, be entertaining and sh*t.
For me, this season seemed really poorly paced and obsessed with Ossining to the detriment of more intriguing characters and ideas. Still, I'm looking forward to S4 now, and I wasn't before this episode.
was I the only one that thought the bedroom scene between Don and Betty was very sexually charged?? It almost seemed as if he was going to kiss her forcefully or have his way with her…?? And as much of a cold rift there is between them now, I just feel like he will spend much of S4 trying to get her back…or vice versa. I think he was honest when he said to her on the phone "I hope you get what you've always wanted" (I can't quote directly but something along those lines…) because she is "awake" now…not a dull and lifeless stepford, but a woman that is alive. He as met his match with her and I don't think its totally done.
#38 Fnarf, I think you have to consider that the plot was hatched on a Thursday or Friday and SCDP had its first day at the Pierre on a Monday. A hotel room is the best Joanie could do under the circumstances, I am sure.
Peggy and Don are both creative. They don't have an art director on Day 1? Probably because no one in Art could help them remove critical information from the SC offices over the weekend. Additionally the initial concern was to secure existing clients; none of that activity requires art. I'm sure they will have it figured out at the point that they need worker bees.
One of the "elderly figureheads" owns the relationship with a primary client. I object to Don being referred to as an elderly figurehead; I don't think he is that in this context. In any case, what Roger and Bert bring are the relationships, which at this point are absolutely key, and Bert remains involved actively in running the business (evidenced by the fact that he, and not Roger, appeared on the PP&L org chart). Moreover, I assume they also bring some funding; someone has to pay that hotel bill. Harry was in Media before the television department was created, and was recently promoted by the amputee to a combined media/television role; I'd assume he knows how to buy print media too. Lane is Operations (although if anything, he and Joan appear redundant to me at this point) – but the partnership is his payoff for making it all possible; not unheard of.
Given the context and the speed with which this was pulled off, I don't think it's all that unlikely a scenario at all.
Sorry if this has been addressed in comments earlier, but…
Does Betty up and go to Reno for 6 weeks DURING CHRISTMASTIME? Or was that meant to be later?
Hey,
Did you guys see this Q&A Matthew Weiner did last week? Turns out the Grampa Gene story is based on his own experience. Really interesting stuff.
http://www.lamag.com/featuredarticle.aspx?id=2185…
Mrs Weiss @52, I guess I can sort of see the dramatic logic behind all these people cluttering up the hotel room. What I can tell you is that having read several books on the subject of advertising agencies in this time period, people going off to form their own agencies was extremely common (far more so than the mergers-and-acquisitions game as played here by PPL) but it NEVER looked anything like this. Guys like Lane and Bert were never a part of the picture, ever. It was always a couple of guys, no more, in a crappy office, with maybe two or three clients to start.
It will be interesting to find out in Season Four if the old Sterling Cooper is still there at all. I don't see how; there's no one to run the company except Kenny Boy, who isn't going to be up to it. Not without clients. Remember earlier Don said to Sal that losing Lucky Strike would be the end of the agency. PPL's sale is going to fall through for sure, and who are they going to send out to run the shell — St. John? Moneypenny? I don't think so. I think they fold a week later.
#53 Holloway, yes, indeed, Betty left two weeks before Christmas. I'm assuming that's why she was willing to leave the kids with Carla: perhaps they'll go see her for their Christmas vacation, or else Don will take charge of them.
That leaves the month of January for her to establish residency, then two more weeks to get a divorce, which gets us to mid-February 1964.
Great postings everyone.
Betty and Don's marriage was aspriational; they were forever 'playing house' in their own home. The scenes of their marriage have become so dark (so often taking place in the evening with pitch-black against the windows) that I shall be glad to see less of that house in the next series, it has begun to give me the creeps. They are in desperate need of a clean break. Once they are divorced, it will be interesting to see what type of woman Don pursues for his first 'real' relationship. I hope it is a completley new character and not one of his former extra-marital flames, as that would be too cloying and depressing.
Thank god for Trudy and Pete, who have outshone the other couples in recent episodes (with the exception of Pete's breif daliance). Although they may have felt like outsiders without children, they have fast become the most wholesome and relevant pairing. Their hilarious jive at Stirling's party showed they are fun to have around. And Trudy has a lot more flair than Betty, for example.
Out with old, in with the new!
Speaking of the new office situation, it makes me think about the timing of this storyline in TV show terms. We know there were some big negotiations to get the show for the 3rd and 4th season. The show is coming off its second Emmy win and big jumps in viewers, which = more revenue from the show. The budget per episode will probably be increased. Don needs a new place to live and SCDP needs a new office, so perfect time to build new sets!
I bet Henry Francis will be gone by the time we start up season 4. His reputation as a womanizer has been mentioned, I believe. He seems like a guy who will evaporate once he nails Betty. It was so sad seeing the housekeeper taking care of the kids while Betty runs off to Reno. It seems like, since Don isn't fighting her, she should have let him stay at the house with the kids. Everyone seems to have gotten a much lighter viewing experience than I did; the gang getting back together seemed melancholy when juxtaposed against the complete lack of parenting going on in the Draper house. Don Draper can lead a mutiny, but his life has had a destructive effect on his family. How many times have we seen Sally and Bobby smile in this season?
Also, I feel Betty has been treated pretty harshly in this thread. Don has built a world of lies for her and I have sympathy for the mistakes she makes while she tries to fight her way out. Don is so suave and awesome it is easy to forget that he's the one who has been virtually absent from his household the entire series.
God, I laughed my ass off when Bert Cooper said they'd have to lock Harry Crane in the closet if he didn't join. It was even better that it seemed to be what pushed him to join up.
I have the feeling SCDandP will do really well for themselves when they round out their staff. Can't wait for S4. Greatest show ever, thank you so much Matthew and staff.
#51, good to see I'm not the only one who saw the sexuality in that scene…and I have to say it was a little bit hot! Not in a domestic violence sort of way, but in a…………..Jon Hamm sort of way:)
Re-watched the show again but felt like i'm missing a detail — why exactly does PPL/SC going to McCann "force" Connie to withdraw his NY properties from SC? Was there a previously mentioned conflict of interest that I'm forgetting? Also, it was odd that Don said "So we're all gone…" to Connie, because of course his contract w/ the company gives the huge value to the sale price, so it's not like McCann would bury him in a dark corner and not use his services, or even yet think of letting him out of his contract (and obviously that's WHY they needed Lane to fire them). Anyone?
And finally, let the anxiety begin…do we really have to wait until July or August to find out if our resident favorite Mr. Gladis will be back?? Better yet, does HE have to wait until April or May to find out if he's coming back?
#47 Fnarf
Spot on! Henry is the classic rebound/transitional relationship for a woman of Betty's era with "no personality." I wonder whether those two ever will make it to altar (or an Elvis chapel in Vegas if those existed in '64), or whether she will wake up and realize she's out of the proverbial frying pan and into the fire? When they get to the hotel in Reno she'll have to decide whether to sleep with Henry (check into 2 rooms or register as "Mr & Mrs" with the baby in tow? Tawdry!) She may not feel the same chemistry with Henry as she did with Don and that should set off warning bells. Let's hope she ditches Reno before the 6 weeks are up because, as #15 Bluelight said, Henry has "zero appeal" and personally I don't want to see any more episodes with him!
I think S4 will pick up in late spring/summer of 1964 with SCDP up and running in new digs and Betty coming to grips with being a single mom in the house on Bullet Park Rd. Don will drop by to see the kids on the traditional Wed/Sat visitation schedule and they'll realize they're both lonely…the sex never was the problem and maybe they'll work out an arrangement. Which will only confuse the kids even more.
I think Peggy and Duck are history and that she and Don might have a fling after a late-night creative session. Pete might catch wind of it, but he now realizes he is lucky to have Trudy in his corner. Peggy is being set up as the prototypical '60s woman who chooses career over marriage — she'll eventually marry (maybe a younger man) but too late to start a family the traditional way.
Gosh, I'm going to be a literal Basketcase while the show's on hiatus. Don't think I'll be alone though
#59. ITA. I'd posted this on another thread but it seems relevant here so reposting:
"I love Don, but I agree. We’re so hard on Betty here but not hard enough on Don. He was menacing when he woke her up but there’s more discussion re: how cold Betty is to him. With a husband who shuts her out and lies to her, and then, after being found out and supposedly wanting to start over, still infantilizes her as if her feelings were temporary hiccups that can be smoothed over with pills and “doctors,†how else is she supposed to respond? Money doesn’t matter to her as much as love. She’s looking for it in the wrong places right now, but that’s what she wants."
Also, why jump on Betty for leaving for six weeks (not sure if she has to stay the entire time anyway, though I do feel it's an awful decision made by a woman with few choices) when Don left the entire family for parts unknown last season. Don has been MIA from family life for most of the last three seasons.
Also, I found it interesting that Roger said Don was no good with relationships. Roger can be a heel but he reads people well—except, perhaps, Jane. Then again, maybe he knows exactly what he got there.
I see the divorce as being finalized and while Betty remains in the series, they never get back together permanently.
While I'd like to see some of these stories resolved in detail, I think we jump a year to 1965. We just accept that things happened, much as we did between the 1st and 2nd seasons. There is so much cultural change in the Sixties that I don't think it can be done in real time. The total run of the series will probably be six years or so.
By 1965, Betty is in California. You just know that Sally will be a rebellious hippie, and that means LA or San Francisco. Lane's wife wants to go back to England, and he's more financial than creative, so he's not needed on site. That gives the writers a reason for the characters to travel to Sixties London.
#10 Deborah, and others… about Peggy's bitterness, etc:
I've been thinking about the scene where Don goes to Peggy's apartment and says "There are people out there who buy things, people like you and me, and something happened, something terrible, and the way that they saw themselves is gone… and nobody understands that. But you do. And that's very valuable."
Then he says, "With you or without you I'm moving on. And I don't know if I can do it alone. Will you help me?"
Peggy has tears in her eyes at this point. I think Don has had an awakening, yes, and I think he' referencing more here than the Kennedy assassination changing things forever (or the death of his marriage and loss of his family) —
I think Don is indirectly referencing Peggy's pregnancy, and how he came to the hospital and told her she could move on ("and the way they saw themselves is gone") and Peggy knows this is what he is referencing. It's the great unspoken thing between them.
This scene also echoes what Peggy told Pete at the end of season two, when she reveals that she had his child and gave it away. I don't have that at hand, but sitting on the couch with Pete, Peggy said something to him about how you think you're going to get back that something you lost, but you never do…
This was such a powerful scene between Don and Peggy. It moved their relationship forward light years and put them on a more equal footing.
Duck gave Peggy confidence of one kind, but Don really knows her, and is acknowledging her talent as well as her history, her intuition, and her heart, all elements that she brings to her work, and that distinguish it.
Knowing how far MM looks ahead and has the patience (I think that's the word Roberta uses in her Hamm interview) to truly get to the meat of a moment or a character, it's so fun to speculate. I find it interesting that American Tobacco is the major client here, and they have a whole British side as well. Maybe that's where Pryce will prove invaluable; he has some great connections, across the pond. Also, everyone has commented on Beatlemania. On 2/9/1964 the Beatles debut on "Ed Sullivan," along with a Kent Micronite Filter ad. Kent was owned by American Tobacco. It will be interesting to see if this angle gets worked into the show. I would love to see more ad pitches in S4 from our newly formed agency.
I think it is possible that Betty is fantasizing that she will become a real partner with Harry in his political work rather than the perfect doll putting in appearances where he wants/needs her. It is hard to figure what she would have built that fantasy on, since what we've seen points to a man who simply wants to possess her. Truth is, I don't get Betty. She only seems alive when she's angry. I find her infinitely boring. And I think Don does too–the difference is he doesn't expect her to be interesting.
And, yeah, my first thought when he pulled Betty out of bed was he was going to move in the way he did with Suzanne Farrell. And Betty would have attempted to claw his eyes out.
#43: ">>what the hell does Bert bring? Or Lane, aside from making it possible by firing them?<<
Bert brings money. Roger brings 75% of the initial billings and Lane was just in the right place at the right time."
Lane Pryce get no respect. He's the unappreciated, un-creative, non-account guy. He's the sort that makes businesses of all kinds run. I believe Sterling said that none of them know how to do what Lane does (or even know *what* he does). So Pryce is in fact an essential guy – even if only "a cog" – to use Cooper's term for Crane's future role at the old agency.
#67: "Lane’s wife wants to go back to England, and he’s more financial than creative, so he’s not needed on site."
I think he *will* be needed "on site" – which will make for nice conflict with Mrs. Pryce next season. What was left unexplored was what did Lane say to her that weekend? My bet is he said nothing.
Loved those slamming telephones – we don't get those for dramatic fluorishes these days.
I felt relieve for Don. Betty only wants a father figure…so sad. And she barely knows anything about this Henry guy! He could be worse for her than Don.
Betty needs to wake up from her fantasy world.
Lane is the equivalent of the chief financial officer. He knows what things cost, and how much they need to stay solvent, and how much they can spend (on salaries, supplies, rent, etc.), without going under. He's the only accountant they've got. They need a numbers guy.
#73 – Right on the mark about Lane's job. It's funny that in season 2, secretary Jane calls Ken an accountant and he replies "Accounts." kind of offended
It's not exactly waking up from sleep, but I thought that Monday morning at Sterling Cooper was rather like The Rapture — especially the moment when Paul opens Peggy's office door and sees that she's gone, and he has been left behind.
@ goodsally #68
Beautifully said, and I agree, Don was definitely referencing Peggy's pregnancy. That is their bond as secret sharers. though Peggy still doesn't know what Don's secret is, and almost certainly doesn't care. That she knows he has one is enough. That he can speak to her in confidence, in that mutual knowledge, is the source of their trust in each other. It was a beautiful scene. To me, the Don/Peggy relationship gives the show its heart.
I haven't seen anyone comment on the link between the scene where Don wakes up Betty and the episode where the Patio commercial was screened for the clients. When Don is yelling at Betty, he says something like " I gave you everything you wanted". At the screening of the commercial, the client said it was everything they wanted but it was missing something. A commentary on the Draper marriage? The marriage looked perfect, it was what Don and Betty thought they wanted, but something – a true relationship-was missing. They could act like husband and wife, but didn't build a loving, respectful, or more than just functional, relationship.
@ dollface #51 – Yes! I thought I saw a flash of real "heat" between Don and Betty during the bedroom confrontation. If Baby Gene hadn't started to cry at just that moment, I think they would have kissed. I don't know how much further it would have gone at that moment, because each of them is still very angry with the other.
There will always be a strong physical chemistry between Don and Betty. If Betty does marry Henry, eventually she will cheat by impulsively hooking up with Don at least once. Ex-spouses tend to do that.
Oh, that's very good.
#56 – Looks like our Don has started a trend – divorce a wife on Valentine's Day…
#51. Totally agreed. Don and Betty have tons of chemistry. You can't just write that off. Sort of reminds me of The Sopranos, with Tony and Carmela. For a while I was rooting for Carmela to dump Tony, with his philandering and controlling ways, but then eventually I warmed to them and began rooting for them to get on equal footing and find their way to each other again.
@ sjrw #81 – Oooo, nice Sopranos comparison … it really did look like Carmela was totally over Tony, but then …
Remember when Tony was nuts over the real estate lady (and I thought he really would leave Carmela for her)? And when Carmela seemed ready with that house she was building to dump him for good? Everyone was betting she'd rat on him or set him up or leave him for another guy, but in the end, she did what had been hinted at all along: She and Tony belonged to each other. But as equals. No more lying about the hidden money, and the affairs, and no more blind eye to the business. I suspect this is what's in store for Don and Betty, too, though I think they need to be away from each other for a while.
#51, 61, & 78 & 81 – Agreed!
I was very pleased with all the Roger this episode, it was very touching how he was genuinely sorry for being the one to tell Don about Henry Francis. I also liked the scene where he tells Don he's been acting as if he started a business his whole life when he actually inherited one. I feel as if Roger may have grown a little bit this episode as well.
I would think PPL could have some legal right to sue some of the renegade principals here. Just saying..
Sorry–79 was to 77.
One thing from 1963 that I wish we still had…the 26 episode TV season. It will be a long, long wait until next Summer.
At one time there was a big effort to put 100 episodes in the can so that you could syndicate. I think the DVD market has taken a lot of that pressure off, though ultimately it can't be as lucrative.
Fnarf, Harry was the media buyer before being made S&C head of television.
The original plan was to buy back S&C from PPL or McCann, in which case you needed the moneyed principals. Plus, Roger had the vital American Tobacco relationship. Once the plans changed, the personnel remained the same. Other than Peggy, whom Don wanted and trusted, even though he mistreated her, and Harry, who has all that media experience, everyone else was someone necessary to actually getting them out the door by Sunday night. They need art, but Don fired Sal so there’s actually no one they want to poach. But you can bring in other people later. Once the skullduggery is over, you can approach people you aren’t sure will say yes.
With McCann buying Sterling Cooper, I imagine they are buying the rights to the name too. I see a "What's In a Name?" episode coming up, where the new SCDP has to deal with a legal challenge to their company's name. Lots of flashbacks/tie in potential to Don's conflicted identity.
#87 I was thinking of that all day… do I have too much time on my hands?
FWIW, I rewatched the end of the episode (for the 4th time!), and Henry definitely wasn't asleep. He was looking down as if he was reading something. His head and face both moved as if he was awake.
Not to belabor the point, but Henry isn't sleeping on the plane. Not only does his head move, but he blinks… twice.
Kent cigarettes were named after Lorillard Tobacco Company executive, Herbert Kent. The company was part of Loew's Incorporated, which also ran the movie studio MGM, had interests in hotel properties.
Kent was a Lorillard brand during Beatlemania, in the 60s.
In the late 90s. Lorillard was one of the four companies who entered into a major settlement between "Big Tobacco" and 46 U.S. States.
It wasn't until many years later, that the Kent brand became part of British American Tobacco's holdings.
Just found this site, so have not posted before. I love all the comments, but haven't read any opinions on why Betty is so shut down emotionally. I think that Grandpa Gene will turn out to be an abuser, of both Betty and Sally. Sally keeps referring to his room as scary, and in s2 after Gene's stroke, he inappropriately grabbed Betty. We have never seen flashbacks of Betty's childhood….maybe we will get insight into why she is troubled as well.
I read online somewhere that someone couldn't believe Don wasn't living at home with the kids while Betty was gone for 6 weeks. Back then men didn't know how to be single parents as well as they do now. (I'm not saying it is any easier now). My mom's mom died in 1966 when she was 10. Her older siblings were married with kids of their own so it was just her and my grandpa. She went to the laundromat by herself made dinner for them and raised herself. He wasn't a bad dad he was just a 50 year old with a 10 year old and I think he didn't know any better. It makes sense that they would ask Carla to watch them so that Don could go on doing what his roll in the family was supposed to be, the bread maker!
_Also my dad said that seeing Betty sit at the table smoking while the kids watch TV was exactly the scenein his house everynight! Even after the 60's when I was a kid in the 80's my grandma smoked in the car with me in it with all the windows rolled up! I don't think she was very affected by the warnings of smoking.
My fave scene was when Don kicked in the door of the "f"art Dept. Things
must have really been going downhill for a firm to leave that on a door.
I think Don will now have the teach, and anyone else in a skirt over to his
bachelor pad. I could totally see him forgetting about his kids in the 'burbs.
and if we flash forward enough, Peggy becoming a beatnik.
"I think that Grandpa Gene will turn out to be an abuser, of both Betty and Sally."
Sigh.
87 & 88 – I don't think the sale will actually take place now that the entire value of the company no longer exists. SC's value is based on Don (and somewhat on Roger). Without them, the company is worthless…..so McCann will withdraw their offer or revise the offer to not include any money for SC. At that point, SC would cease to exist and fold…..
It SEEMS that all is in order for the new SCDP to put their wagon in motion.
God this is going to be a long 9 months' wait.
Food for thought – what if Mad Men was done like 24, where every episode was one hour of a single day?? Discuss…….
Just saw this and had to repost – a post-finale interview w/ Matt Weiner:
The Daily Beast: The formation of the agency left a lot of characters in the wind. Have we seen the last of Ken, Paul, and Sal?
Weiner: I am going to say something that I don’t always say: I don’t know.
I'm glad the Drapers are divorcing. Both of them had unrealistic expectations of each other and with all the lies and deceit and simmering resentment, phew.. tired of that dark place.
I am excited to see Don form a different kind of relationship, one where there are open questions and freely given answers and an interest in growing and learning and thriving. Someone he can have things in common with and abilities to explore and grow and enjoy life. Hey, it could happen.
To those who predict or wish for or think would be a good idea.. an affair of any kind between Don and Peggy/Joan.. god no. The intellectual stimulation between those three people is wonderful and I for one could not stomach the changes sex would wreck on that.
What a wonderful episode to complete another wonderful season. So many awesome observations, no matter what you've thought about this season it's been interesting and here we are again, trading opinions and ideas and our common love for these beautiful characters that MW and company have created for our entertainment.
Thank you Matt, thank you actors for doing your jobs so well that we have become completely invested in you. Can't wait for S4. While I wait I'll be here on BoK checking out whats happening.
BTW, did anyone else notice that Dons hair looked different in someway this ep? He looked younger I think…
Thanks Lipps for creating and maintaining this awesome place! MUAHs to you all!
A few favorite bits:
Roger was looking at Joan with total love, tenderness and respect. And she looked radiantly happy to be out of the apartment with Dr. Crazy.
The confrontation scene in the bedroom was so well played by Jon and January. That needs to be on their Emmy reel.
Don did look different in this episode to me. Pale, shell-shocked, a little sweaty and a bit manic. None of the usual cool, perfect exterior. Kudos to the makeup people in particular.
Trudy showing up with the sandwiches – and cake! – god bless her.
What the hell are we going to do on Sunday nights for the next 9 months?
Perhaps the most random thought I had during the episode: what happens with YodaBert's no-shoes-on policy?
I also felt the episode was a little too neatly bundled at first… but by the end of it, there were enough open-ended possibilities (the new SC, Betty's trip to Reno, Don letting her go) that it balanced it out.
Hamm outdid himself again in this episode. I was almost in tears in the 'kids, we're divorcing scene', especially having been that little girl on the couch.
I predict Betty regrets her decision. I think she's going to want Don back, and I think it's going to be too late for her.
The bedroom scene was amazing. January Jones was phenomenal, as was Jon Hamm. I really thought Don was going to start wailing on her, and man, she almost deserved it (I know, not PC, don't freak out)… Don really called her on her crap in that scene, and it was phenomenal. Loved how he *finally* started voicing his feelings about a lot of things in this episode. The evolution of Donald Draper should be interesting indeed.
I thought this was one of January's best episodes as well. She's gotten a lot of flak for being a one-note actress. I highly disagree and this episode proved it.
Bravo to all, and can't wait for Season 4!
There seems to be more than a few, upthread a ways, with the opinion that the midnight scene in the Draper boudoir was sexually charged and “hotâ€. I must be missing out on some great passionate mystery of Life. It wouldn’t necessarily surprise me if this was true. But I’ve watched that scene intently now three times. The confrontation was soaked with emotion but I, alas, fail to feel Teh Hawt.
The scene is a great display of the final death spasms of that marriage, the involuntary leg-twitching of the mortally wounded. The turbulent events of the day cap off the angst and shame of the past weeks and it all shows badly on Don. His fear of his loss of autonomy and control has, in this moment, reduced him to a drunk, vicious, abusive brute; his father’s son. He punches Betty out of a sound sleep, yanks her out of the bed, onto her feet. Then he bitterly projects his remaining self-loathing and self-disgust onto her.
And Betty withstands all that shit like a champ. Huzzah indeed!
I was so proud of her when Don grabs the nightgown and pulls her to his face and calls her a whore. Betty does not flinch. She keeps looking him straight in the eye, reflecting back all Don’s remaining self-disgust; the last dregs of his fear and disrespect. This was a brave and progressive moment for her; Bets galvanizes into a better person right there in that instant. She takes on Arachidamia-like status for me. Good for you Betty.
Interestingly it’s a self- illuminating and cathartic moment for Don too I think. He purges the last of his resentment, fear and insecurity and hopefully destroys the pathetic bully within for good. He certainly handles life much better the next day.
And all of that was exhilarating to witness for sure but not in any remotely hot, steamy sexual way for me at least. It’s weirdly humbling. I consider myself very much the libertine. I have my “enthusiasms.†I strongly believe everything is acceptable between consenting adults and all that. But there was no crackling sexual oomph in there for me at all. I guess as The All-Knowing They says, your mileage may vary. But in this case you and I are definitely not joy-riding in the same Coupe Deville.
I hope someone wants to follow up on this. Straighten me out here. For me neither actor showed anything remotely resembling sexual interest or arousal. I’m curious, to anyone who got the strong hot vibe, are you also in the camp with those who didn’t see any sexual chemistry between Don and Suzanne? Do these groups overlap? Am I that mistaken on both counts?
@lessofme #102: hear-hear. Well said. Pivotal, no-going-back moments for both Betty and Don, and a definite defining moment for Betty. Your "galvanizing" is a great word for it.
I've been part of such a scene in my young life. There is not a sexual connotation per se, in my opinion, but more of a primal one. Primal can be sexual; sexual can be primal, but in this case, I think primal survival was at stake, for both Betty and Don, and that's what we were seeing play out.
They are over. Done. It has all been said. Asked and answered. Now they will each move on.
And, as liberating as that can be (and is), there is still some shell-shock left, which we saw both of them dealing with, and there will be continued fallout.
Interestingly it’s a self- illuminating and cathartic moment for Don too I think. He purges the last of his resentment, fear and insecurity and hopefully destroys the pathetic bully within for good. He certainly handles life much better the next day.
It's a tribute to Jon Hamm's talent that not only does he not pull back from Don's more assholish qualities, but he can also convey that Don himself is often repulsed by them, too. MW lucked out big that he found an actor who could do all that, who also looked like Jon Hamm.
But no, I didn't feel anything sexual during that scene, either. I was actually more afraid it was going to come to physical blows. And I'm with you, dude, him calling her a whore is rich considering how close he was to running off with Suzanne Farrell and never coming back except to brush his teeth. He probably wanted out. But on his schedule, not Betty's.
Whatever other quibbles I might have with this episode, all became right again in *my* Mad Men world the minute I saw Joan wearing her gold pencil necklace again!
I don’t think Betty has rejected him because he’s not good enough for her.
MW says pretty emphatically that she does reject him because he's not good enough for her- she never saw herself married to the son of a prostitute from such lowly beginnings. (Daily Beast interview) Not saying it's the only reason by a long shot, but it was the rubicon she couldn't cross.
After it's all said and done, people can project all kinds of depth into Betty, but I just don't think it's really there. She is what she seems to be – shallow, needing to be adored, needing to be some man's little girl, needing to have someone anticipate and provide for her every need, emotionally distant, etc etc.
We can all speculate why that might be, but at the end of the day, that's what she is. I don't see any big feminist awakening happening with Betty. Not all women her age turned into Gloria Steinem in the 1960s, and in fact I would argue that most probably didn't At best, she might accept that there are different choices for Sally, but she won't fundamentally change herself.
I'm so glad she & Don finally accepted that they aren't ever going to be suited to each other. I look forward to him finding some interesting, engaged, challenging woman to fall in love with.
As for Betty-0 will she ever be happy? Maybe if she can find someone whose only goal in the relationship is to play the part of Prince Charming. Maybe Henry is that guy, maybe not. But I don't really care what happens to her.
On to SCDP!
LOM – your assessment of the scene, so masterfully expressed – I too like goodsally experienced such a scene when I was younger and married to a
handsome, christmatic, functioning alcoholic , who I loved dearly. But there came a point – Don was druink – and Betty at this point had acquired her steel resolve. She no longer cared what he – did – said – thought – or felt – she was ready to go on with her life without him. The roller coaster ride from hell was over. She was right to tell him to get out and he did not argue with her about it.
Don was purging all his pent up fears and anger – it needed to come out – he was mean – low – and dirty and real – not role playing "that everything is going to be alright." It is over. This was the last shovel of dirt to go on top of their 10 year marriagle. He needed to let it out and he could not do so sober. To me the scene was scary but a necsessary.
I did not find his time with Suzy all that steamy either. I guess I am hard to please. Betty and Don in Rome – now that was hot.
good post
the confrontation b/t Betty and Don was not sexual at all to me.
it was full of hatred. Don was practically sneering — his words came out of his mouth like spittle.
Betty stood her ground because she was full of hatred too.
It appears that MW, tho I didn't take it that way at the time, really did intend to convey that Betty doesn't love him because he came from such a harsh life. Don hates her for that. Don also has a double standard for his affairs vs hers.
And Betty intends to stay in that dollhouse.
Just a fefw random comments:
1) If I were hiring any of the 1963 MM characters for my 2009 business, Lane Pryce would be the first guy I'd want. He has a track record of always getting results, always going where he's needed, and he even managed to win over the old SC clique.
2) The music reminded me of Monsters, Inc. I thought it was perfect.
3) Funniest line: "Very Good. Happy Christmas" is a classic.
4) 2nd Funniest: "Yes. Yes we are. Happy Birthday."
I have all 13 S3 episodes on DVR. Time to start watching them again!
AND ANOTHER THING while I'm still prickly.
I feel that The Weiner God has deliberately thwarted my expectations and desires in this S3 finale. I'm certainly an egomaniac but this still feels unusually personal.
I had hoped for projectile vomit, thought it lacking from an otherwise fine season. Then little Dickie Whitman almost brings up the chuck when he gets a look at Archie's decidedly unlucky face. But it appears his gut has been toughened not weakened by moonshine and he just kind of dry heaves before the cut-away. BOOOOO! BOOOO!
And I predicted quite boldly many times Sunday that we would have to see Don's bare feet. The Weiner God himself spoke the importance of Don's dogs, prominently displayed in the first scene of the season. I mean we close things out the way we were brought in, right? The cycle of storytelling; wrap some things up nicely; the fucking wheel, etc.
I grinned from ear to ear at the first shot of the sleeping Draper. I thought, "Aha, LOM, you have been vindicated so quickly. Sweet victory is yours." I mean I didn't check with the Lipps first but Rule #1 of Mad Men Coolness has to be that Don Draper does not sleep with his socks on, even on a cot in the baby's room. And what happens next? We cut to him sitting on the edge of the cot with his obviously BARE FUCKING FEET just out of frame.
BOOOOO!!1!!! BOOOOOO!!!11!!
That's as close as we get the rest of the show.
There is no Weiner God. Or else he just really hates me. I hope his Emmys prematurely tarnish.
I agree with every word that less of me says at #102.
Well said!
Also, I'm puzzled at comments like "have his way with her" and "little dalliance" when talking about rape.
And I'm putting $5 right now that Harry doesn't last long at the new SCD&P. Joanie will end up taking over media. Harry lucked into that position, and doesn't have what it takes to keep it going. When Bert asked Harry if he just wanted to be a mid-level cog at McMann, I thought "That's all Harry can be…it's as high as he can rise." Joan on the other hand…
And did anyone else notice her comment "Greg is going to kill me" (I guess when he finds out about returning as head secretary…which she said pays less than a department store sales woman.)?
My other prediction is that Sal dies in S4. He may find another job, but if he keeps cruising for lovers at Battery Park, it's a given that he will get caught in a police raid. One of the new SCD&P gang is going to open the paper to an article on "NYPD cracking down on immoral behavior" and that will be the end of our darling Sal.
The last sad irony I noticed is that, if previous posts are correct and Betty is establishing Reno residency for 6 weeks starting around Christmas, the divorce should be finalized right around Valentine's Day. Great present. Ditch one husband and marry another on a day dedicated to hearts and true love.
I'm glad to read that Weiner has finished with this marriage. It was obvious from the very first time we saw those two that this was a sham of a marriage – both unhappy, no joy, no real connection.
Perhaps now that Don has had to confront his past to someone so close to him he will be less armored in future relationships. His marriage ended but the world didn't and Pete and Cooper know his secret and they are along for the ride so maybe we can see a less guarded Don in the future as we did in this episode.
I am looking forward to seeing some new characters next year – I expect they will bring in some new people for their agency – perhaps one or two from the past but some new folks will be interesting.
Given that the sale of the company wasn't going through until January 1, I'm not sure what legal action could be taken aside from the actual stealing of proprietary documentation.
This is not the same as some people sitting down to start a new agency – they come with at least 30 million dollars in projected revenue and none of the core group has a clue about how to handle the finances so Pryce is very much needed and I'm so glad as I love the character.
I am hoping that when they get situated and find a more permanent location that it will reflect the more open feel of the last scene where the lines of heirarchy are more blurred – loved it that each of the upper level folks were not behind closed doors in their own offices but rather on a more even playing field.
Everyone in that room needs the others and I like the change in dynamic that brings.
Maybe they will embrace the idea of a more open type of workspace that encourages more brainstorming and spontaneous interaction than having to replicate the formaility of the previous office environment.
So many possibilities – too much time to wait for whatever magic Weiner brings us next year.
Thanks for the swell responses. I got tons of work to finish this morning so I feel badly for commenting and running, I do it for the dialogue but really can't play this morning. But quickly to the ones I read.
goodsally, I almost used "primal", some may be confusing that for "sexual" or blending the two a little more than I would.
Meowser, You're right on the acting. Hamm is fearless. January too, I think she's underrated by some. There was muy explosiveness in there, I always felt Don though drunk was capable of not completely becoming a violent pig there. Maybe last season if pushed he might have really whacked her, and if Betty hits him the whole thing gets real ugly I think. It had me at the edge.
Gingere, i feel both characters really improve off of this. Betty still has many societal hazards to avoid. Don by virtue of maleness gets more freedom to express himself.
And esme, I agree but my caveat is with the word "hatred". I'm shading that one a bit. I think it's more distilled frustration and resentment. Ten years is a lot of time, when you feel you've been forced to play three card monte. But I don't think either of them max out to hatred.
Something got ya ruffled today, hunny bunny? How about some Roy?
Thanks again all. Be well, play nice. I'll try to pithily snipe when I can.
The writing on many of my favorite TV miniseries, or episodic dramas, if you will, is so superb that it really threatens my first love, live theater, in this day and age. Playwriting in so many cases these days is highly derivative and/or too personal to really have lasting value or to engage the audience on a universal level. Not so, these new series like MM and the Sopranos, and comedies like Curb Your Enthusiasm (Lucy/Desi, and even Noel Coward: move over!) But, to the point at hand, the writing in the last episode led to completion of so many story threads that the series could end if all parties desire it, but also, it left many, many opportunities to continue into a late 60s future. Sal is a great example. I knew many gay men, especially, who were actually crippled by their inability to navigate the bumpy waters of "coming out" and the last scene of Sal cruising the park, might just have to suffice; life doesn't always have "tidy" endings. OR, he comes back happily engaged to that German creative guy. Ha! Makes you wonder what a happy ending is! Just kidding.
#102 – Despite feeling that Betty is the least emotional honest of any character on the show, I feel great sympathy for her fears, injuries and attempts to grow. So, my enthusiasm for her doesn't match yours, but I agree completely that this was anything but sexual. It's what any power struggle is: someone wins and someone loses, or more likely both people lose something. It was the death of love; it happens, and it's terribly sad, most especially when it's entered into with expectations and good faith. I too am a sexually open and completely tolerant person; but I am skeptical, no, I'm sure, that the "exciting" postures of domination, submission, are "perverse" in the original sense of the word. And in this instance, Don's true feelings would be completely discredited. Compare this scene to the one where he threatens that horrible comedian's wife by grabbing her crotch in a threatening way, while trying to keep the whole nasty thing a secret from Betty. That scene obviously illuminate the anger which drives rape.
I think I know where Peggy is headed
..this from the wiki entry of a famous early woman in media……
After working at the William Morris Agency, Music Corporation of America, and Jaffe talent agencies she went to work for Foote, Cone & Belding advertising agency as a secretary.[12] Her employer recognized her writing skills and moved her to the copywriting department where she advanced rapidly to become one of the nation's highest paid ad copywriters in the early 1960s……..
Helen Gurley Brown.
Peggy is a bit younger and HGB married in 1959, but the rest is a pretty good match.
Sweet Sue, that "dalliance" thing made my teeth sting. Wanted to rant that out too! But I only had time for the betty/don tete a tete. Too many choices.
And on the good side, I could type all day (as if) about the two Peggy/Don showdowns. great stuff.
BTW, thank you Lipps! I'm new to this site, and am enjoying it and am grateful for your efforts.
I loved the season finale and was happy to see it was not filled with cliffhangers, but with optimism for the future of the new agency. I also thought it was a pretty tidy set up for the new season–and for new viewers to jump on the Mad Men bandwagon…and that if the show had not been renewed ( I know it has), the finale would not have been an unsatisfying series finale.
Nyna, great points. @115 They really could stop the series with that last episode; it was close to narrative perfection, for the reasons you give. But I would be forced to stalk down and kill some AMC execs or something if it happened.
And @116 Of course, I'm sure you'll agree, it's always worth repeating to cement the point, rape is all about violence and power, expressed through a sexual act. Rape is not sex.
I may not get any work done today.
That last sentence is happily expressed BTW.
LOM – You're working. You're just not getting paid. I know; I'm doing a lot of that lately, carrying water for the family and being a general "dog's body",and believe me, it provides a good deal of empathy with dear Betty, or more likely Carla….
#87: There is no longer a sale of SC to McCann, and probably not a sale of PPL either. SCD&P have walked off with SC's single largest client and it's highly valuable creative director; there is no longer value in buying the company. St. John said as much to Lane.
#92: Welcome. The notion that Gene was an abuser was much discussed after The Inheritance. Roberta thought he was, I thought he wasn't; Matt has said in interviews that he never intended anyone to think Gene was an abuser and was surprised. Sally adored her grandfather and only found Gene's room scary because she was struggling to deal with death.
less of me, allow me to chime in on the Hawt issue. Power and aggression can be arousing, even when they really shouldn't be and when they'd be really inappropriate. And we know that Don has played with that energy: With Bobbie, which is why his grabbing her in Lutece was so controversial. I found the Lutece scene both hot and disturbing, but I was surprised at the Internet outrage the next day.
If Don and Betty had kissed in that moment, I wouldn't have been surprised; it would have played off the same energy. But Betty is not Bobbie, and I don't think she's ever expressed any interest in that particular energy. Moreover, even if they had torn each other's clothes off, she'd have still gone to Reno, because the aggressive sexual charge was still rooted in negative emotion and would not have brought them back together.
Less of Me- I missed the "hawtness" too. Both were spewing hatred. In fact, I saw Archie in Don's face…brutal and cruel. And when baby Gene starts to cry, that alarm wakes Don. He remembers his kids. He remembers the man he DOESN'T want to be.
#91- Smiler G: This is where I got my info:
http://www.njcu.edu/programs/jchistory/pages/L_Pa…
"By 1910, Lorillard became part of the American Tobacco Company."
hatred, resentment, hurt. most all of us can feel those emotions in an intense moment that are tempered over time. so, call it what you will, in that moment there was no love in that room.
Don "apologized" with the phone call to Betty. The sad thing, to me, is that when he hoped she got everything she wanted, and she said "you'll always be their father," I thought that he was everything she wanted, until they both killed their marriage. or more to the point, their mutual fabrications of the other were what both wanted. but maybe I'm wrong.
I love Roy Orbison. He used to put blue christmas lights all over his house. My mom used to take my sister and me on a ride around town to see all the lights
and his always seemed so sad. but calm.
#91- Smiler G. Ooops! Now I've found this:
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Lorillard…
In 1911, the U.S. Court of Appeals found the American Tobacco Company "in restraint of trade," and issued a Dissolution Decree to the American Tobacco Company, which created the opportunity for Lorillard to be an independent company again. (*) (*)
My bad. Thanks for setting me straight!
#125 Deborah. Indeed. "Inappropriate" is exactly the right word. Takes judgment out of the analysis, and civility is left in.
#131 – Oh, I'm SO competitive and you beat me to it. Grr……I was writing that Sally will be the first hippie chick to run around in a gauzy Indian blouse with no bra, when poof! your post appeared. Well, at least we agree.
@ Joan vs Jane #126
that alarm wakes Don. He remembers his kids. He remembers the man he DOESN’T want to be.
Excellent point. So much of the episode is about Don finally exorcising Archie Whitman. In the opening scene with Connie, when he feels the rejection, is first response is a bitter "that's why you call me Son," a nasty equating of Connie with Archie. In the bedroom fight, Archie surfaces again. But Don realizes he isn't Archie. He wants to be a better father than that, not only to his own children, but to the people he's responsible for at work. Our last view of Archie isn't the violent brute, but of a poor farmer forced to sell by forces he can't control. He's too weak and pathetic for Don to hate anymore. His flashback death is also the death of his dominance of Don's psyche.
JMO, but I think Weiner has now portrayed Betty as unredeemable. Don may be a liar and a reckless rake, but he also has scenes where he's tender, kind and thoughtful with his kids, co-workers and mistresses. Betty is a monster. An absolute ogre to her daughter. January Jones did a great job of acting, especially in the last 3 or 4 episodes. But outside of her great beauty, the character has nothing else going for her. Nada. Zilch. The kids are going to take a hit from the divorce, but this shrew is not going to make it easy on them and is going to jump right into another marriage.
My hunch is that Ms. Jones has gotten substantial offers in the business, and being an actress in her early 30s, who relies heavily on her looks, she has a limited window of opportunity. She may remain in the show, but with limited scope… perhaps only 4 or 5 shows per season.
Skipped over everyone else for now, sorry, the worker death panels have me rationing writing time.
Deborah, I like your chiming. I'm in total agreement re: the Lutece business. I was not aware of these fine digs at the time, so don't know the local reaction, but at other venues it was not very nuanced or well thought out in my opinion. I read some good writers who were uncharacteristically frothing at the keyboard. I was kind of disappointed because the rhetoric, to me, was disproportionate to what was actually portrayed and what actually could have occurred in the complete context of the characters and the show. Without a complete rehash, I thoroughly agree with your "hot and disturbing" there.
But with our Betty and Don right just then, at that moment, with all I think I've been taught about the two of them up till then, I just can't ever imagine a kiss. Not if the writing is honest. It was closer to progressing to rape or manslaughter than hot, angry grudge sex.
This sort of ties in with something AnneB (where is she BTW; have you restrained her in NYC someplace? ha.) said last week. The writers have "balls" to keep it real. You build a character to a spot where you have to be brave enough to let it play all the way out. I feel that other types of shows could and would hedge at that moment but I never feared I'd see it here nor could I see it here. If they would have kissed, I would have been surprised and it would have been a deal breaker for me. The serious, non-parody death of the Weiner God. I would have felt played, manipulated. What you say about the nature of sexual energy is reasonable especially between persons who have ten+ years invested but I'll disagree in that instance. The scene was very personal for me, maybe that's why I feel so committed to one outcome.
FREE ANNE B!! FREE ANNE B!!
Thread gone wild!
# 91 SmilerG: I am CRUSHED by your post.
I have been indulging in fantasies about a certain group appearing on The Ed Sullivan Show in Feb 1964 and the Kent ciggie ad theory thrilled me. Additional fantasies include Roger making clever remarks as secretaries giggle over who is cutest (and he would know as Jane would have told him – this being her new obsession), Pete having a new album at the top of the pile of records in his new office space, Bobby and Sally glued to the TV and then playing the radio all the time and begging for money for records and later Bobby begging for a set of drums (Betty says no until she realizes he'll be spending a lot of time in the garage) while Sally's on the phone constantly comparing notes with school friends, etc.
But seriously, I was scared by the Don/Betty confrontation and thought he might have hit her if baby Gene hadn't started crying. I'm with those who immediately thought of Archie. We've seen this behavior before with pushing her and throwing Bobby's robot.
Please no, not a Betty – Sally – second husband story line eating up air time.
Thanks for the heads up about MW interviews!
@134 David Ogilvy, I think you are being a little hyperbolic on Betty. She most certainly is not a monster or an ogre to her daughter. Monsterous ogre like parents are ones who beat their children within an inch of their lives, monsters are parents like that German couple where the father locked her daughter in the basement for 18 years, impregnated his own child and then kept his children/grandchildren down there so they never saw light of day and the wife swearing she knew nothing about it, monsterous is the woman in DC who killed her adopted children and put their little bodies in the freezer for nearly a year, monsterous is the man who adopted a little boy and then advertised him on the web for sexual services and the child was about 3. That is monsterous.
Although I get a little tired of people who swear all the time that everyone is beating up on Betty, this is just a bit beyond the pale. Betty is not a great Mom, but she isn't that bad either, she keeps her kids well-fed, dressed, clean, safe and warm, she doesn't beat them or really yell at them, or say psychologically damning things like the Whitman's did to young Dick (whore son, never amount to anything). Though she is being unwise in letting a strange man into her family, I doubt she would tolerate anything beyong perhaps a spanking of her children. She loves them but has a hard time showing it, partly due to her personality and partly due to her upbringing but by no means is she a monster or even a bad mother. Shoot, there are MILLIONS of children in this world who are beaten, mistreated, cursed, underfed, with no access to an education, Bobby and Sally (and their real life counterparts) for the most part have a pretty decent childhood, not perfect with a bit of heartache, that is much better than many other people in this world.
@#110 LOM–
Don's "box of secrets" was the Foot Castle shoe brand.
Just fannin' your flames…
dancewo,
There's a CIA sponsored secret foot fetish cabal at MM productions I tells ya!!
Though in all seriousness, why didn't Don keep that stuff in a much sturdier cigar box or coffee tin? Mr. Jingles got a cigar box.
I guess only The Toes Knows.
A lot of posts mentioned the potential of Don being violent towards Betty if Baby Gene hadn't woken up. I wonder, if Don had laid a hand on her (slap/punch), wouldn't she then have grounds for divorce and proof from her wounds? I know abuse wasn't one of the reasons the lawyer listed, but I don't think the laws could have been THAT strict.
As for Betty as a mom, I don't she's a great mom but she's a not a bad one. We can't compare her to today's moms, who are expected to cater to every whim of their children's needs and lavish them with constant attention. Yes, she can be emotionally distant and dismissive of their emotions (Sally will get over the Grandpa/Baby Gene thing), but she does make sure they are taken care of and well fed (even if that means hiring Carla). Parents were less "hands on" and less overprotective, letting kids learn to fend for themselves and be more independent.
No, Betty is not a monster but she thoroughly emotionally absent from her children and while physical scars are more readily painful and apparent, the psychological ones from an emotionally absent parent or one who doesn't acknowledge you as a person with emotional needs is a bad parent – a monster, no? A terrible parent? Absolutely.
Given Sally's age which is the same age I was in 1963, she won't be partaking in a hippy lifestyle for at least 5 or 6 years, which is the age my friends and I were when we fell headlong into that world in the later 60s. I too had a screwed up mother and was looking for something to connect to since there was no connecting of any kind going on in my home except for being yelled at for perceived wrongs, told not to cry because it was a sign of weakness and basically being treated like a possession as though I was a piece of furniture.
Sally seems ripe for taking that path but whether we will ever see it – who knows. If Weiner moves a few years ahead in the next season and beyond we will not get to see this wonderful actress who plays Sally. She takes my breath away with her remarkable talent.
A quick comment on Betty's maternal skills– I like to paraphrase Bert Cooper's line from season one everytime I want to slam a character–
"This country was founded by men (and women too) who have done far worse."
Works quite well most of the time. (Greg still gets the vase though.)
@137 Dark Peggy " I think you are being a little hyperbolic on Betty. She most certainly is not a monster or an ogre to her daughter.."
I disagree. Yes there are far more worse examples of parental abuse, but Betty is affluent and well-educated. I'm surprised that she smoked so heavily during her pregnancy. My mother (who was a pack a day smoker) was advised by her OB/GYN to severely cut down smoking during her pregnancies during the early 50s — and she did… 4 cigs a day and she also cut out drinking. While the evils of smoking were not as much out in the open, those that were educated knew the dangers of smoking during pregnancy. Betty is too self-absorbed to give a hoot.
Weiner portrayed Betty much more harsly in S3. In earlier seasons, she was definitely more of a victim… seeing a shrink who betrayed her confidence to Don… having her return to modeling cut short because Don wouldn't leave Sterling, Cooper… and, of course, suffering at the hands of Don's infidelities.
But in S3, Betty was never portrayed in a sympathetic light. I guess the best thing you could say about her was that she has yet to sleep with Henry, but that's a case of knowing that he'd "never buy the cow if you give away the milk for free." Plus, Weiner, himself, has commented that the #1 reason for Betty's divorce came from the realization that she married the son of a prostitute. She had known Don was poor, but had fashioned him as a heroic self-made man, not a man who had taken another's identity. Hell, she even threatens to blackmail him if he doesn't consent to the divorce.
And finally, here she is leaving her two oldest kids alone for the Christmas season because she just can't wait two more weeks to get that divorce. How sick is that woman? I don't think it's just my perception, but it's the way that Weiner has portrayed her in S3 — he's drawn her as unredeemable. And also huge props to the acting of January Jones who did a great job at portraying her character as stronger and meaner. As a middle aged male, it's hard to outright despise a character as beautiful as Betty Draper.
Again, my hunch is that during the early 1964 GOP primary campaign, the bad reaction of the voters to the Rockefeller divorce, causes professional pressure on Francis to hold off on marriage, selfish Betty flips out but Don won't take her back. Hopefully Don gets the kids before Sally tries to smother Baby Gene in the crib.
I honestly can't understand why people would think that just because parents had a more hands-off, less 'helicoptery' style of raising their children in the 1960s somehow normalizes the cold, distant, emotionless void that defines Betty's relationship with her children. She does not display an iota of love, warmth or positive feeling with them. There might be reasons why she is the way she is, but that doesn't change that SHE IS THAT WAY.
I'm sorry, it simply is NOT normal. Not now, and not in 1963. Betty has severe emotional problems, and I don't think it's all the fault of her marriage. She brought a lot of that with her.
Wow. Just throw me on the pile in agreement with LOM. There was sexual energy between Don & Bobbie in the famous Lutece scene. There was nothing sexual or in any way attractive to me at all about Don's drunken rampage. Not. at. all. But others have a different interpretation. That's why I read the blogs I guess.
I've rewatched the bedroom scene a few more times and I'm sticking with my original comments. I might stand alone but I agree it was uncomfortable and very dark…menacing….but sexually charged. I could feel the energy and sadness along with everyone else…and yes for a flicker of a moment to me the "primal" as stated earlier, came to light and he looked like he was going to force himself on her. Her standing in her little girl nightgown…it was abounding with imagery that boggles my mind.
Actually, Weiner says in the Daily Beast interview given after the finale that he wanted the marriage to end because Betty didn't love Don:
From the interview:
Weiner: Yes, she has grown up on one hand because she’s taken control of her life and is not just taking what’s handed to her… I knew from the beginning that this would be the end of their marriage and I worked my way up to that. I didn’t want the marriage to end because she found out who he was; I wanted the marriage to end because she didn’t love him anymore. Her concept of what love is is a lot of what the season was about… I think Betty Draper is an impulsive person and she may have an arrested state in terms of what she was taught to expect from her life, to be taken care of by a man, to be loved and worshiped and adored… Has she grown up or is she just so frustrated with the status quo that she can’t take it anymore? I don’t know, but she definitely put her foot down and I’d like to believe, not just as a dramatist but as a human being, that that is growth.
Full interview: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/20…
Totally disagree with the assertion that MW has drawn Betty as irredeemable. I think her fling with Henry is a total mirage and is going nowhere, but I found her increased resolve over the last few episodes to be a real step forward. In previous seasons, and even early in this one, she always seemed to stare at the floor or into space when having a difficult conversation. Lately, she is boring in on Don, staring holes through him. That's because she finally has some confidence in what she's doing, and it's refreshing.
Yes, the woman has huge deficits in her character, the most glaring of which IMO is her completel lack of empathy or warmth toward her children. But to attribute everything she is and does to selfishness ignores many other contributing factors, not the least of which is the man she has spent the last 10 years of her life with. I don't know what MW did or didn't say about why Betty wants a divorce, but if he meant it to be because Don's a prostitute's son, then it has been lost on me. She despises him because he's a fraud, not because he's a hillbilly. She always felt his profession was "semi-fraudulent" and now she has proof the the fraud runs way deeper than that. For me, selfishness don't enter into it.
I had really had enough with Betty earlier this season, but that was for just being miserable without doing anything about it — the willing victim in the gilded cage. No more — she's now acting on her feelings and taking real risks in doing so. I think they will blow up in her face, but I am pleased she has the guts to take them at all. I would hate to be her child, but still…
BTW, my mom was pretty tanked the night before she had me in 1964. Hopefully it wasn't because she was selfish.
There was sexual energy between Don & Bobbie in the famous Lutece scene.
That scene never bothered me. A little gross (wiping his hands on the napkin at the table) but these were two equals, on the only field of battle the two of them knew. I'd be surprised if Bobbie felt sexually violated- I think she knew that Don was calling her on her own bullshit in the way she would understand best. She was always the sexual aggressor in their relationship. I kind of liked it. (But I always liked Bobbie too – just not as a romantic partner for Don)
OK, this makes me a bad person.
@ 147 Lee "Actually, Weiner says in the Daily Beast interview given after the finale that he wanted the marriage to end because Betty didn’t love Don."
Well, from the same interview, Weiner also commented:
"Don coming clean really damaged his relationship with her, more than the lying, her seeing who he actually was. I do believe when he says his mother was a 22-year-old prostitute that Betty is looking at something that is very far from what she had planned for herself… "
IMO, Betty has been left with only one attribute, her looks. And, in 1963/4, a woman in her 30's was considered past her prime. (Incredible, I know.)
Sometimes I really don't like hearing what Weiner intended because it clashes with my own interpretation. I do think that Betty has a class problem with Don, but that's only one small part of why she wants out. I mean Don lied and cheated on her, then blamed and gaslighted her for cover, for their entire marriage. Isn't that enough? Does the end of their marriage really come down to Betty being shallow and preening? I thought Weiner was going for more than that. (I think January was, at least.) I mean does Weiner think she just needs a better shrink, too?
I do believe when he says his mother was a 22-year-old prostitute that Betty is looking at something that is very far from what she had planned for herself… â€
Just try to imagine for one teeny tiny moment Betty answering one of her friend's questions "So, Betty, tell us about your husband's family." "Son of a prostitute" is never ever ever going to cross those perfect little lips.
And can you imagine what Gene would have done with that? Or William?
Na. Ga. Na. Ha. Pen.
Betty really is every bit as shallow and appearance-driven as she appears. Time to accept it and move on.
@ 148 Sir Hillary "I had really had enough with Betty earlier this season, but that was for just being miserable without doing anything about it — the willing victim in the gilded cage. No more — she’s now acting on her feelings and taking real risks in doing so."
True Betty is no longer a passive victim, but, in taking control, she's now lost the her only sympathetic portrayal. She's taking a bad situation and making it much worse. She's a product of a dysfunctional childhood, but she's not putting and end to the cycle, she's perpetuating it. She may now be imbued with the self-awareness to end a bad marriage, but she's driving headlong into another relationship without proper deliberation. She used to be stuck on the tracks laid down by her father and Don, but now she's got the resolve to leave those tracks… in otherwords, she's a trainwreck.
@151 — Donny Brook, I'm with you 100%. Agree with your interpretation of Betty's feelings.
As for hearing about MW's intentions…no disrespect at all towards him, but I actually couldn't care less about what he intended, and I have a feeling he would be fine with that.
This blog rocks precisely because people come with their own interpretations.
"And now for something completely different. . ."
David Ogilvy– You mentioned something way upstream, I think you're right. No big time jump into S4. I expect to see Xmas as a matter of fact. So much goes on in '64 that will involve the whole mob. Plus watching the way the roles are changing with SCDP will be well worth it. Roger asking Peggy for coffee was just a teaser; Joan will have to be more than just office manager, there should be lots of responsibility overlap for everyone to get that place running correctly.
On the fractured homefront, if Betty is spending the six weeks in Reno, then Don gets to bond with the kids and has to interact more with Carla if sees staying at the house. The racial inequality issue can be brought out front with her character this way. Betty and Henry can get to the campaign trail, etc. Lots of tasty ways to make 1964 really rock. I think you're on to something.
Does the end of their marriage really come down to Betty being shallow and preening?
No, but the lie the marriage was built upon, and the subsequent lies over the years kinda proves that Don had her number about ever coming clean to her. If he'd told her that on their first date, it would have been their last date, guaranteed. Not that that wouldn't have been a good thing in retrospect, adorable children notwithstanding.
It's a tragedy all around, and I'm glad that the marriage has come to an end. It was never going to work, and it shouldn't have happened in the first place, I guess.
# 151 Donny Brook "Does the end of their marriage really come down to Betty being shallow and preening? I thought Weiner was going for more than that."
My hunch is it's a sign that Betty will no longer be a pivotal character in the show — in all liklihood Ms. Jones' excellent work has gotten her a 5 picture development deal with Mirimax (or some such headline from Variety.) She may stay with the show, but in a reduced role.
This show has made big stars out of Hamm and Jones. Not to mention that the profiles of Slattery, Hendricks, Moss and Vincent K are much higher. They're going to look for more money (depending on contract length) but all demands can't be met.
I'd say the Betty character is winding down, with the characters of Pete and Peggy on the upswing. And I could be dead wrong, which is why I enjoy this forum so much. (I just hope they leave Roger alone! I don't want to see him go through some mid-life crisis and settle down with Joan. I don't want to see him quit smoking or drinking. I love this guy. He would be unredeemable except, unlike Betty, he loves everything about life, without priority.)
LOM- agreed! I want to see every single passing minute of the new improved SCDP start-up! What was the second day like? And what happened on the third day? Where are their new offices going to be? How about Sally & Bobby's Excellent New York Adventure With Dad? Is there a stunning, smart, challenging brunette in the brownstone next door? Will Trudy bring lunch every day? Will Joan ONLY wear pants from now on?
I can't wait.
Hang on…"I'm a fraud and a climber, but I couldn't tell you because you wouldn't marry me if you knew. So I concealed it from you, and only when you found out on your own did I come clean. Now you're divorcing me because of it. You're the bad guy."
Am I missing something?
Wait a minute. If Don was so proud and accepting of his own roots as a "whore child", why did he ever bother creating the Don Draper persona? He's spent his whole adult life running away from the reality of who he is because he hated it and what it said about him. A bit hypocritical of him to be angry at Betty for the same thing. (Although, personally I don't really believe that's why she left him)
ALL the women who are pregnant on Mad Men smoke. not just Betty. Francine, the NURSE at the dinner party at Joan's… those are two pregnant characters I remember off hand.
ALL of them drink, too.
whether or not the surgeon general had anything to say about it, it's not just Betty who is acting outside of our acceptable boundaries.
Who knows. People may look back on our time as one in which children are put under incredible stress and made to feel like they must be perfect little performers with their baby einstein-providing moms (oops, that was just a big Elmer Gantry in the tent moment selling salvation by IQ points), with time so structured they don't have an opportunity to go outside and watch clouds go by, in families that are so stressed by the expectations of macmansions and hummers that the time they spend together is wrapped up in deciding what to buy next.
I lived in a western european country for a while and parents there send their preschool children on overnight trips with their teachers. People thought I was weird because I didn't do that with my kids. I came back here and it was right in the middle of the mighty morphin power rangers thing and kids thought my kids were weird because they weren't wrapped up in buying all that shit (tho they got into it… )
In the Feminine Mystique, Friedan noted that housework expanded to fill the time available. Now that people have smaller families and bigger expectations for their children (and more fear of them finding a job) maybe the things that constitute good parenting fall into that category too. We've narrowed our definition of being good enough as a parent in order to keep people anxious about their place in society.
That's not a defense of Betty as a character. Just an overall question about what we know is "right."
In traditional marriages fathers are the ones who get to look like the fun parent. They aren't around for most of their kids' lives if the fathers work in an high-status job. There are few high-status jobs that don't expect people to put in waaaay more than 40 hours a week in order to be successful.
So, anyone who works in a job with those expectations must be a bad parent too, huh? unavailable.
Or someone works in a lower status job and doesn't have the money to buy into the early-adopter culture. they have time to spend with their kids, maybe, but then the economy sinks and they have to take a second job. they must be bad parents because their kids don't get to have all the goodies and access to things that help to create future success. poor role models.
who can win in this game of good?
# 162 esme "ALL the women who are pregnant on Mad Men smoke. not just Betty. Francine, the NURSE at the dinner party at Joan’s… those are two pregnant characters I remember off hand. "
Not Peggy, although she may not have known she was pregnant.
But I do remember the early 60s and a lot of pregnant women, that were well informed, cut down on their smoking or quit altogether. Betty falls in category of well-educated.
I grew up in an affluent suburb of Boston, not that much different from Sally Draper's Ossining. Like Sally, I was at the surge of the Baby boom, and kids ruled. There was never a doubt that parenting was at the top of the list of both my mother and father, as well as the parents of many of my friends. Betty would have been at or near the bottom of the list of the parents that I knew in the early 60s.
Speaking of great parents… my mom and dad loved New York City, and, during the 60s, it was common practice to take the family for a one-week vacation in New York City at the end of August. (At 10, I even had lunch at the Pierre… I wonder if I saw Duck and Peggy in the lobby headed off for a nooner!) They were great times, and, best of all, I remember what the City was like in the early 60s, before the realities of garbarge strikes and Son of Sams soiled the image of NYC. (Of course that image used to obscure the poverty that lied beneath.)
# 163 gypsy howell "DO- Roger should be in every scene. Every line from John Slattery is a polished gem, a perfect pearl, a piece of perfection."
Slattery is just great… and it's not just the lines he's given. His delivery is sometimes wonderfully nuanced. In last Sunday's show, when he's sitting at the bar with Don, and let's it slip about Henry Francis, Roger says, "I was gonna tell ya… No I wasn't" And there was something about the timing that sad a lot. Not much of a break between "gonna tell ya" and "No, I wasn't," as kind of an admission that he knows that sometimes Roger realizes he's full of sh*t.
Slattery and Robert Morse were the only two actors I recognized when the series debuted in August 2007. I'm a big fan of Morse, and remember him from the 60s when he was kind of like a Michael J. Fox who could sing. I saw him in "Tru" and his stock with me soared. But I probably couldn't put the name to face in the case of Slattery. What a perfect fit of actor to role, and both Weiner and Slattery deserve huge props.
I hate doin' this without checking the quote but gypsy made me do it.
"Sign on or die?? That's it Bert!? He was doing better."
And gypsy, I said it before somewhere but I expect Joan to suggest to Don that he should consider a nice nehru jacket and sideburns in some future season.
Great comments all. So slightly off topic, but am I a horrible person for wishing/hoping for ringside seats to the BATTLE ROYALE that will be Betty Draper in one corner and Sally Draper (the teen years) in the other? I mean I’d pay good money to see that along with a big bowl of popcorn and a tasty beverage. That little girl is already a bit sassy and has a temper, so you know there will be some doozies in the coming years, especially b/c she will most likely blame Betty for her Daddy leaving and probably won’t see his role in the break-up until she is much older, if she ever does. Bobby seems pretty laid back but maybe it is b/c he is just a little guy so I don’t envision him getting to involved.
Also, two interesting comments and funny comments I saw on Ta-Nehisi Coates’ blog on the Atlantic. One woman said that though the Henry/Betty hooking up getting into a relationship seems weird, unless you know people in real life who do that and then she threw in the aside “folks is crazy ya’all” And a man who said Henry Francis needs to head for the hills b/c he knows from doing it twice, when getting involved with a divorced woman in the first year of the divorce you might as well hand that woman a big stick and tell her to beat the hell out of you because that is what you will get. Funny but probably true. No slam on Betty at all but most folks tend to use their first relationship after a big break-up to get all of the anger from the last one out of their system so Henry and whomever is Don’s first real relationship may very well suffer for every single thing that each Draper disliked about the other. Not pretty.
Aran, I think it was the final irrevocable fact, a fact she could NOT get past, and on reflecting on it, she just didn't want to be part of a life that included that. Of course I don't think it was the only thing by a long shot, but if the truth about his background involved a narrative that included "football hero who happened to hate his father" she might have found some way to forgive him.
But honestly, I don't really care any more. I felt this huge personal relief once they called it quits.
Being married to a whorechild was the rubicon she couldn’t cross.
So none of the rest of it mattered? She was ready to leave last season and only came back because she got pregnant. Also, she had another man waiting in the wings so she had another place to go.
REally, the more I think bout this season, the more my feminist hackles rise. Both Don & Betty were painted in extremely negative lights, Betty mean to her kids, Don yelling at everyone at work. But at the end of their marriage we see Betty heading off into the sunset with her new fantasy man, having apparently learned nothing. Don, OTOH, is so changed and moved by his divorce that his whole life is renewed: he spearheads the formation of a new company and patches up every relationship he spent the year trashing – in one weekend. So Don is once again the hero and Betty is still "just a little girl."
Ugh.
#170 Exactly!
#168 less of me "I expect Joan to suggest to Don that he should consider a nice nehru jacket and sideburns in some future season."
Maybe not until 1967, after the Monterey Pop Festival.
But by the end of S4, expect Pete to have a modified mop-top and wear Beatle boots! I think Pete Campell will have tremendous growth, especially since our suspicions have been confirmed that he's not just your average schmuck. It's been two steps forward and one step backward for Pete (or at least our perception of him). We thought he was on to something with his going after the "Negro" market, but then he looked foolish when he asked the elevator operator on his choice of tv set. (I'm still not sure if Don was being 100% sincere in his pitch to Pete — "We need you to take us forward… at least I need you," — but it sure sounded good.
The timing for next season will be interesting. I know MW said he'd like to see the show end in or around '71 and that he thought it was a 5 season show. (Although $$ talks and I'm sure if AMC/Lionsgate coughed up the right arrangement it could go longer). We've got a 6-7 year stretch for two seasons?
#170 Donny Brook "REally, the more I think bout this season, the more my feminist hackles rise. …at the end of their marriage we see Betty heading off into the sunset with her new fantasy man, having apparently learned nothing. Don, OTOH, is so changed and moved by his divorce that his whole life is renewed…â€
Excellent summary, and that's the way I see how Weiner moved the story.
It could have gone differently, with Betty throwing Don out, using that new awarness to keep Henry at arm's length, and have Don remain at a professional crisis at the end of S3. But Weiner ended it in exactly the opposite way.
@131 Dark Peggy-In the episode, we saw Sally get very angry at Don for leaving her again. Remember how Mona and Roger had a civil conversation about what to do with Margaret? If Sally runs away from home, Betty's first call is going to be to Don, and the two of them will put aside whatever differences they have and work together to find her.
Sally is going to be a member of the counter-culture. She's seen how unhappy her house-wife mother is, and she's seen that money doesn't buy happiness. Sally is not going to be a Beatles fan. She's going to be Stones fan. She's going to like dark, edgy, and in your face rebellion.
esme, can't snappily respond, quickly linking out to irrelevance, OT!!
Joe Walsh!
@ 173 Aran- He also said he wasn't going to cover November 22 1963 either. He changed his mind; writers do that. I hope it goes for more than 5 seasons.
@165Aran: I'm with you. I don't think Betty ever held Don's family background against him. In that last scene between them in the bedroom, it was Don who kept landing the first blows. He said she had a life raft, like all that money in the desk drawer wouldn't keep him afloat for a nice long time. She says she is leaving him, and I think this is the absolute honest truth, because she wasn't enough for him. She has always felt she wasn't enough. He could never open up to her. Their relationship was based on a sexual attraction. But Betty wasn't sufficient. And she has all of this potential to be an interesting person and what does he throw back at her? You're just a spoiled main-line brat and I was never good enough for you.
???
I have never seen Betty indicate in any way, shape or form that she felt that Don wasn't good enough for her. She didn't like it when her father suggested such a thing. So, where does that come from except Don's own head?
Then she says, "You're right!", but it takes her a long time to get there. I think she was just angry.
Then he calls her a whore. Well, that was totally uncalled for.
But something happened right after that that I found interesting. They got really quiet and right up into each other's faces. It reminded me of a the proposal scene in the movie version of Pride and Prejudice. Darcy and Lizzy get angry and then look like they are going to devour each other.
Is it possible that Don has come to realize that his wife is a sexual being after all? And now that she is, is she more attractive to him? And is it possible that Betty isn't going to take anymore BS from anyone?
{{sigh}}
August is so far away…
>>Sally is not going to be a Beatles fan. She’s going to be Stones fan<<
Sally's only 9 years old, and by the time she turns 18, in 1972, the Stones will already have become passe.
She'll be a Monkees' fan, and Davy Jones will be her favorite.
Does every woman on the show have to conform to our feminist standards? Betty is what she is. She finally took a stand against Don, but beyond that I didn't see much growth. In some ways, her relationship with Henry shows regression – instead of moving forward on her own, albeit with a nice financial settlement from Don (which as his wife she deserves), she instead goes backwards into the arms of a daddy-figure she hardly knows who promises to take care of her.
I don't fault MM for showing us that different women were capable of different things. If you want feminist heroes, look at Joan and Peggy. Totally awesome, each in their own way.
I'm OK with Betty being portrayed as a woman who couldn't grow. Maybe she'll surprise me in future episodes, (although I hope we get back to the action at SCDP- plenty to occupy us there) but for now, personal growth is not the story line arc for Betty.
Me, I want me some more Joan & Peggy. Even Trudy, whom I once saw as a spoiled social climber, has grown by leaps and bounds. I totally love her now. Betty is the stark contrast to that. And I'm OK with it.
Don and Betty are not getting back together.
And the fate of Sal and the others is uncertain.
From Weiner himself: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/20…
The Daily Beast: While there have been cracks in Don and Betty’s (January Jones) marriage before, their marriage appears now to be well and truly over; is there any hope for the two of them to mend the wounds they’ve inflicted on each other?
Weiner: It’s so unambiguous to me that this marriage is over, but the audience seems to cling to the idea that they should be together because we want to believe in those things. The marriage was not good. It was built on a lie and the lie was exposed. In the end, Don coming clean really damaged his relationship with her, more than the lying, her seeing who he actually was. I do believe when he says his mother was a 22-year-old prostitute that Betty is looking at something that is very far from what she had planned for herself… That was the whole story of the season. When Henry Francis (Christopher Stanley) came on to her… a switch went off in her head of what was missing in her life, which was a true, romantic attachment. In the end, that combination with her gut feeling that something wasn’t right in her marriage and finding out the truth, they don’t belong together anymore, kids or not. You’ve got to take it pretty seriously when someone’s flying to Reno to get a divorce.
The Daily Beast: The formation of the agency left a lot of characters in the wind. Have we seen the last of Ken, Paul, and Sal?
Weiner: I am going to say something that I don’t always say: I don’t know.
The key to Betty is that she's a child. This is what Don yells to her face somewhere early in S1. Who knows? Maybe she was scarred by growing up around Gene. But there is something simple about her. (Remember that weird relationship she had with the young neighbor boy?) This season I was actually taken aback by some of the efforts to make her seem more worldly, like speaking Italian. In Rome, when she got her hair all stacked up and stylish, she did not, however, look womanly. She looked like a child in her mother's clothes.
As a result, Don's attentions roved to women who had something on the ball. The beatnik girl in S1 had all sorts of interesting smarts. Rachel Menken had that exotic something. And Bobbie Barrett, while a bit sinister, was a world-weary, battle-scarred woman who really knew a thing or two. As for the schoolteacher this season, well, this was a new one on me. Like a few other things in the beginning of S3, I didn't get it. The character wasn't drawn well enough.
Betty, though, was thoroughly traumatized by the revelation that her shining knight in armor had been making time with Bobbie Barrett. ("She's so old!") Here was where her self-image as the cutest girl in school got demolished. Her husband was making time with THAT battle-ax? She began taking revenge against Don in the only ways she knew how — throw him from the house, have a quickie with a man she met in a bar, be ever-petulant. She's never recovered from that incident.
So, yes, Don's new revelations about his childhood might have made him seem a lesser human. But I think it's just one more damned lie she's got to contend with, and it was too much. She says something like, "He's been lying to me for years."
Irredeemable? Well, I dunno. Was Don irredeemable when he wanted abandon his family and run off with Rachel Menken? Or any of the other snaky things he's done. He ended up getting some vital lessons and it might have changed him for the better. Oops! Too late!
Betty might finally get wised up and become a more interesting person.
gypsy, I realise that Betty is just one character and there are better feminist role models on the show. My point was that instead of making both Don & Betty more nuanced, having them both grow in different ways perhaps, only Don learns anything, only Don is allowed to grow up. That choice is designed to make Don more sympathetic to the viewers, and it's too unbalanced and blatant and manipulative.
IMO.
It's not hard to imagine falling out of love with someone who has deceived you in the worst possible way, treats you disrespectfully, lies with ease, cheats on you repeatedly. I don't think it is any one thing that sent Betty away – it is the whole awful cornucopia of ugliness that lead her to the "I don't love you" – the whole marriage was based on lies – not one but many.
I'm pretty certain that would kill the love for many people.
As for the actors wanting more money – they probably will but I'm hoping that if they don't get it they won't bolt because I'm betting all of them will never get an opportunity to perform in such a high quality piece of art.
It's not to say they wouldn't be capable of doing so it's just that when you look at what is on television and even the movies, few things hold a candle to this show. They are all so fortunate to be a player in this show and from some of the interviews I've read of the cast, they are fully aware of that fact.
My problem is that now when watching a few of my other fave shows of which there are few, I feel a bit less satisfied than I used to because this show has spoiled me rotten – happily so.
I find it so hard to understand why the incredible media that is television can't manage to produce many such quality shows. It's been revealed that the budget for this show is pretty low by television standards so that's no excuse for the mediocrity we get – I can't figure out exactly what it is and, doubt I ever will.
So much has been said about interpreting this show against today's standards and remaining true to what would have been acceptable human behavior in the early 60's. One thing that will forever remain a constant no matter what the year is would be the simple emotion of hurt and infidelity. I for one am sure that Betty did harbor a huge resentment of Don once he revealed who he truly was, however I think she harbored an even bigger resentment that she was never enough. You would have to have complete blinders on in that marriage for her to have thought Bobbie was the only time Don strayed. We all know by her many comments including the ones during childbirth that she knew the cheating had been going on for a very long time. That would have been grounds enough for many to throw in the towel and get out. What about that level of hurt for her? I am certainly not a Betty defender, I can't stand her as a mother and think on many levels she is still a child. BUT, WOW if my husband was a serial cheater and I knew it, you can bet the door would not close fast enough even in 1963.
DB – In a way, NOT having Betty grow is more interesting. Look how much time and emotional energy we've spent on her!
Sometimes I really don’t like hearing what Weiner intended because it clashes with my own interpretation. I do think that Betty has a class problem with Don, but that’s only one small part of why she wants out.
I have to agree with you. Betty had been aware of Don's lower class origins since Season One or perhaps before. Roger had pointed out Don's rural beginnings in "Red in the Face". In the following season, Don was speaking about his life on the Whitman farm to Betty and the kids during the infamous picnic in "The Gold Violin". Betty certainly didn't seem put out by his conversation.
I think that the beginning of the end of Betty's love toward Don began after Jimmy Barrett told her about the Don/Bobbie affair. After that, I believe it all went downhill, despite their attempt to reconcile during her pregnancy.
Betty, though, was thoroughly traumatized by the revelation that her shining knight in armor had been making time with Bobbie Barrett. (â€She’s so old!â€) Here was where her self-image as the cutest girl in school got demolished. Her husband was making time with THAT battle-ax? She began taking revenge against Don in the only ways she knew how — throw him from the house, have a quickie with a man she met in a bar, be ever-petulant. She’s never recovered from that incident.
I would not have recovered from learning about my husband's infidelity. I certainly don't see why Betty should have.
#184 Jill "What about that level of hurt for her? (Betty"
Most of the characters in a good drama have experienced 'hurt.' What makes them sympathetic is how they succeed in spite of that hurt. Don/Dick is a mess, and experienced much more misery (as a child) then Betty but has made it to the top of his profession. Peggy is a total wreck, personally, but she's made amazing strides in a man's world in a man's profession. Pete must have been dropped on his head, and Joan is one drug prescription away from joining Marylin Monroe.
I guess only Roger Sterling was never hurt, and that's why he turned out so perfect!
I apologize if someone else addressed this: What Lane brings is simple: He's the bean-counter. The rest of them obviously don't have a clue. Reality is somebody's got to handle the day to day accounting. Lane's the only one who can do it. As Don said "Who else can do what he can do??"
>>Reality is somebody’s got to handle the day to day accounting. Lane’s the only one who can do it.<<
Sure… Lane will be the Managing Partner. But in a small firm, with only a handful of accounts, that's probably not a position you need to have a Partner responsible for. Ideally, a Partner in a small start up would either have 1) money 2) creative record 3) accounts. You hire an Operations Manager, rather than give him 25% of the store. (or maybe less, depending upon Pete's share as Junior Partner.)
What SCD&P will be doing for the next year is selling Don Draper. Eventually, they'll have to diversify, but right now, if I were Bert Cooper and had to fund this startup, I'd take out a huge term insurance policy on the life of Donald Draper… or should that be Dick Whitman?
# 129
Joan vs Jane – Big Tobacco is similar to Big Oil, in the sense that there was much consolidation early on. Then anti-trust actions by the government, back then, resulted in numerous smaller entities.
An ironic development in recent years is that mergers and consolidations have brought some of these companies and brands back under the same corporate ownership.
With Big Oil, for many decades, there were "The Seven Sisters" (smaller companies, most of which, came out of John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil break-up). Again, in recent years, mergers and consolidations have brought some of the "sisters" together again.
A couple more thoughts about Weiner's choices re: Betty.
1. Why is it necessarily "feminist" for Betty to have learned something after her failed marriage? Don was a complete flim flam man, but she doesn't for even a minute consider trying to get to know Henry better before jumping into an engagement. Is she brain damaged? Surely she could keep Henry on a string for a while.
2. Why did Weiner choose to make Betty even more annoying to the viewer before effectively offing her from the show? I've been defending the character since the beginning, but I was also relieved to know the marriage is over – I'm sick of her. I guess it's better than The Wire, where they tended to make a character more sympathetic before offing them, but it's perhaps a bit cowardly. Then again, we all still like Sal and the chipmunks.
#188
Could not agree with you more. Sympathy is derived from how someone succeeds despite hurt. Betty has not succeeded in many viewers eyes, just moving along from one path in life directly to the same path. My reflection was really more of response to the notion that she left him because of his reveal about his past. I don't think that she left him because her nose was in the air or that she somehow would be unable to get past his being a prostitute's son. I think she left him because he was a serial liar, cheater, and did not in her view listen to a thing she said/felt.
Betty had been aware of Don’s lower class origins since Season One or perhaps before.
Not to beat a dead horse, but here I go : it's one thing to grow up on a farm, it's another to be the bastard offspring of a 22 year old prostitute.
Betty had lots of reasons to leave Don. The final straw was his birth story.
Lets face it, there was no way this relationship was ever going to work becuase of who the two of them were when they met. Don couldn't be honest with Betty about his background – she would have rejected him outright. Fear of her rejection drives him to perpetuate the lie. And because of that foundational lie and lack of trust, they can never be truly intimate. And because they can never be truly intimate, Don digs the hole deeper, doing more damage, by trying to fulfill the void with outside affairs. Betty comes into the marriage an emotionally stunted child-woman with no sense of self. Her affect is, putting it nicely, Nordic. Because of her own emotional void, she can never break through Don's wall of fear. Her shallowness drives him further away. As he drifts further away, she becomes more and more unhappy and unfulfilled, which expresses itself in suppressed rage at her children. Her rage and unhappiness pushes them further apart. The vicious cycle goes round and round and round.
Glad it's over.
@ #191 — DB, I was responding to your "feminist hackles" remark in #170. I thought what you meant was that you were offended that MW chose for the woman not to grow in the relationship. But not all women DO grow. That was my only point.
And besides … it IS all about Don Fucking Draper, Handsome Mad Man Extraordinaire.
Yes, I'm sick of her too. But apparently I can't stop talking about her.
#196 "Yes, I’m sick of her too."
Let's hope that in S4, Betty marries Henry, but then goes behind his back and gets rogered by Roger. She deserves a man like that…. good background and all.
Yes, I’m sick of her too. But apparently I can’t stop talking about her.
I know, me too!!
I'd be OK if Betty married Henry, and they live a quiet boring life in Chappaqua, or wherever Henry lives, and the kids move into the Plaza with Don and an exasperated British nanny. They keep the dog and get a turtle. Oh the hijinx! Skeedaddling and skeediddling up and down the hallways, Sally and Bobby and their little friend Eloise driving the doorman and housekeeping mad!
@175 retrogirl. I'm a little confused confused, are you disagreeing with me, and explaining why, are you just adding to my point or something else?
#178: I can totally see the storyline going the way you suggest. There is a ton of heat between Don and Betty. Maybe Betty will have to go it on her own without Henry and work again, and Don will find that scintillating. He'll see her in a different light, sort of how he was reminded of her being more than just the mother of his kids while in Rome and watching her flirt with the guys and hold her own. I am hoping Betty finds her strength and reshapes her life. Peggy has; Matt Weiner allowed her to grow from an uptight, ambitious woman to someone far more multi-dimensional.
#135 LOM,
I think the TuLipps are planning a coup of AMC to guarantee the show into the 80s (Bobby as a mohawked Clash-lover!) and are holding Anne B in a storeroom until she joins in…
#144 Gypsy (Lovey),
I totally agree! I've held off jumping into the raging sea that is pro/anti Betty…and I'm generally understanding of why Betty has behaved the way she has w/Don (been there done that). I TOTALLY get her initial compassion to his pain followed by the anger at what that says about his behavior towards her.
But she is not hands-off w/her kids: she's just plain cold and unfeeling. "Dad's home. Go to bed. "Don't even give them a chance to greet him for crap's sake! She has even less tools to deal w/them than he does. And they know it. I remember the no-holds-barred battles w/my mom (who sadly has many Betty elements, maybe that's why I understand why she is and how she could be) and pity both her and Sally for what's down the road.
#166- david, MW is making the choices for the characters. Francine is also educated and is Betty's neighbor. The nurse is the wife of a DOCTOR. And they both smoke, too.
afaik, Bert, Peggy and Pete are the only ones on the show who don't smoke.
Obviously, if Peggy had known she was pregnant she would have taken up smoking, horse bike riding and the eating of ancient herbal abortifactants.
My own mother was very loving, funny and fun to be around. and a non-smoker. That doesn't really matter because MW has created characters that are not fun, loving or funny (the Drapers – altho occasionally they are by accident.)
In the case of smoking, I don't think you can single out Betty for that. That's all.
Now to check out that Joe Walsh link. can I guess? walk away? ain't no good guy song? I like walk away better than that ain't no good guy song. The Tobias Fünke analyst-therapist waltz?
More about Kent cigarettes — From 1987, this appears to be an in-house Lorillard video for their sales force, marking Kent's 35 years as a brand … http://www.archive.org/details/tobacco_lfa54a00
I think someone wondered here about a Beatles reference in a Kent ad.
In 1965, the Ray Conniff Singers had a hit song called "Happiness Is", which listed various examples of things that make people happy ("To a preacher, it's a prayer-prayer-prayer / To a Beatle, it's a 'Yeah-Yeah-Yeah'"). http://www.lala.com/album/504684633536554550/The_…
The tune was crafted into a series of Kent commercials … http://www.tobaccovideos.com/videos.php?brand=Ken…
(scroll down to the ads titled "The Taste of Kent")
I'm pretty sure that the Beatles reference was only used in the Conniff song and not in any of the Kent commercials.
But there is this bit of fun from the Beatles, about Marlboros … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHD1V051S2w
Goddammit, I feel like I'm at a wake. Talking and reminiscing and telling funny stories about about the deceased.
Can't believe we have to wait 9 months (that's a whole baby, people!) for the next season.
#159 Exactly!
DO- Roger should be in every scene. Every line from John Slattery is a polished gem, a perfect pearl, a piece of perfection.
Someone should do a mashup of all Roger’s lines from every episode.
SH, Aran & DB – no he was deeply ashamed of his past, of being a whore-child, but he also knew that if he ever told Betty, she would never accept him. He was right about that. He could have told her about the whore child part, and a whole lot about his past, and still not reveal the name change. The name change wasn’t the issue. His bastard birthright and meager childhood was. Everything else (his career, rise to partner at SC, great salary, nice lifestyle, etc etc) he achieved on his own – none of that was a fraud.
I’m not saying he was a great husband — he sure wasn’t — but he was right about the essential part of Betty. Being married to a whorechild was the rubicon she couldn’t cross.
Maybe Gypsy that was what MW meant, but I can’t believe that that one single fact weighs more heavily into her decision than a decade of daily lies, her husband breaking the law to create a fake identity and all the days and nights she spent alone because he husband was off schtuping other women. Betty didn’t even react to that bit of information when he revealed it … but I’m coming to realize that MW and I don’t share the same thoughts or aspirations for the character (which I admit to being a bit bitter about) so you could be right. Pity if that’s the case.
#23. Great insights into 1964. I can't wait for Season 4 to be 1964. I was born in 1964, and it will be even more interesting to see the show during that year.
#64. I agree. I think when Don called Betty at the end of the episode and he told her he wasn't going to fight her, he wanted her to get everything she always wanted, blah, blah, blah… I think a look came over Betty, but for a very brief second, that showed despite all of this- she loves him/she cares about him. Egotistically, Don thinks that the break up is b/c the "main line girl with her nose in the air" can't forgive him for who he really is/ but she gave it right back to him- she can't forgive him for her "not being enough for him." It is the affairs!!!!! She has known about them for years. Remember, she told her psychiatrist about it during Season 1? The lie of who Don really is is just the lie that tipped it over for her after the Kennedy assassination. He has been lying all along…that is what ended the marriage. Betty gets too many criticisms from this blog. She is just trying to be loved. It is Don who really isn't worthy of her forgiveness right now.
# 72 Lucy. Even if Betty doesn't really know who Henry Francis is, she didn't know Don either when they were married. As her father pointed out: "he had no people." Matt Weiner said in an article (I think the September Vanity Fair) that Betty really married Don b/c the sex was that good. She threw everything else away, married a man "w/no people" and whom she didn't really know at all b/c the sex was that good. Her comment during Season 1 to him that she lives for those moments when they are in bed together demonstrates this attraction. Now, she is marrying a man w/o ever having slept with him. Why? B/c she is thinking with her head. She wants security, loyalty and love. He has promised her that. Don may have given her security… but loyalty or love? I don't think so.
#135 LOM – My husband gave me a podcast interview of MW by Elvis Mitchell ("Shake it, don't break it!") and MW's description of his writing process is identical to your analysis. I was listening in the car today (did you notice that I was missing these last 7hrs….) and he said, loosely paraphrased, concerning tony Soprano in the episode about choosing Meadow's college, "Do you understand that this character is being absolutely true to himself……in behaving the way that he does….[something to the effect of 'not contrived']. I agree that for some, grudge sex might have been the pathway to surviving another dreary, half-alive day in a failing marriage, but for Don and Betty Draper, the only outcome, that day and that time would have been injury or murder if little Gene hadn't broken that primal spell.
#172. I totally agree. I don't think Don was being 100% sincere to Pete in his pitch. Don called Peter “a little shit†in the bar scene w/Roger right after they visited Pete at his apartment. Don said: “I can’t believe that little shit was going to leave.†This statement comes very shortly after their visit w/Pete where Don so sincerely tells Pete that he values him. Don needs Pete. He "values" what Pete can bring to the table- but he still doesn't respect him.
Interesting comments regarding whether or not it was a 'hawt' scene. I'm with Deborah and a few others that think it's a lot more complex than simply 'violence of any kind is wrong'… male/female relationships are quite intricate and especially when comprised of the kind of twisted, tangled emotions shared by Betty and Don… it's not simply just a case of this is okay and this is not. Violence is not the optimal solution or expression of emotions, but sometimes a crack across the face can say more than any words ever could. Sorry if some of you find that politically incorrect (as I'm sure you will), but that's how I see it.
There was definitely hotness in the bedroom scene. For one thing, Don asserts himself and there ain't nothin' sexier than a man who knows who he is, what he means and what he wants. Perhaps all the more so if he looks like Donald Draper. One of the things I just loved about this episode was that Don finally was starting to not only get clear on what he wants but to express it. Granted, this scene was full of hostility, but much of it was justified, IMO. Betty is an immature, spoiled girl/woman who is running from one marriage to the next in pursuit of what she's been told will make her happy. And she has definitely rejected the real Don, and that must hurt like hell, after all he's given her. As he said, 'I've given you everything you ever wanted, and you LOVED it.' Those were words of truth.
I was worried he was going to hit her and glad he didn't (even though part of me feels she deserved it.) And I think there is further hotness there, as Draper was man enough, sane enough to refrain from resorting to physical violence. He controlled himself in a very passionate moment, and that too is definitely sexy.
I didn't read all the comments from the Lutece scene… but I am kind of surprised (and kind of not) to hear that so many people found that scene objectionable. In the context of the show, it was absolutely perfect and said so much about Don and Bobbie's relationship. It was hot in a perverse way, in the same way that their relationship was perverse and full of a lot of unhealthy drives and emotions.
I will disappointed if we don't get to see Betty evolve, but some people don't. In some ways, it will be much more rewarding to see Don evolve. I think Betty is going to realize what she lost one day.
I'm thinking about the scene in the lawyer's office when the lawyer asks about the settlement and Betty says whatever she's entitled to and Henry asks for a moment and the lawyer tries to act as if he's not in the room while Henry essentially tells Betty he wants to make sure she belongs entirely to him and has no assets of her own. The look on Betty's face seemed to me to express that she understood exactly what Henry was up to.
But that also makes me think of the scene with Betty and the tow truck driver who she convinces to repair her car for the price of the part with clear implication that she'll make it worth his while later. Then, after he's fixed the car, she makes it clear there will be no later. Maybe Betty will be putting her six weeks in Reno consulting with a least one divorce lawyer without Henry tagging along and Henry will discover there's no later for him, either.
And maybe she'll meet somebody who wants the same things she does and for whom she'll be enough and he'll be enough for her. And her role in MM will be completely off camera.
I just so wish Betty had celebrated her divorce this way, instead of going the boring safe route.
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/la-d…
What a fun bunch of comments!
#168 less of me said: “I expect Joan to suggest to Don that he should consider a nice nehru jacket and sideburns in some future season.â€
She might suggest it, but he won't do it. 38 years old in 1963 – too old, too buttoned, too steeped in 1950's culture and traditions.
She will much sooner flirt with Don – now that hubby is a cutter for the Army.
# 172 David Ogilvy Said: Maybe not until 1967, after the Monterey Pop Festival.
But by the end of S4, expect Pete to have a modified mop-top and wear Beatle boots!
Pete's younger – 26-28 (?), but still too buttoned up, especially coming from money.
Both "looks" are fun to imagine however – Photoshop Anyone?
#210 Rachel in Ca:
"Betty is an immature, spoiled girl/woman who is running from one marriage to the next in pursuit of what she’s been told will make her happy. And she has definitely rejected the real Don, and that must hurt like hell, after all he’s given her. As he said, ‘I’ve given you everything you ever wanted, and you LOVED it.’ Those were words of truth."
Accept, he never gave her loyalty or respect.
(I can't work italics on this blog!!!!)
Oops- typo. EXCEPT, he never gave her loyalty or respect.
You can listen to Elvis Mitchell's interview with Matt Weiner for KRCW's program The Treatment here …
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt
# 214 Suzanne Mills:
Perhaps he didn't (give her loyalty or respect), but she didn't give him real love either. When he revealed who he really was, she felt sympathy for, what, 15 minutes when she rubbed his shoulder? And maybe the next morning? That was all she had time for and then it was 'where's my next fairtytale?' Whether she realized it or not, she let him down at his most crucial moment and it may have been the final death blow in this marriage. In fact, I'd say that it was. Don was still willing to try and make it work. Betty is the one who pushed for the divorce.
I see them as both highly flawed but very likable, sympathetic characters. It's interesting to see so many people who want her gone from the show; I'd like to see her develop, much in the same way Peggy is (so wonderfully developing.) I like the PP who mentioned Betty having to figure things out on her own, becoming more authentic and Don seeing her that way. It would appear from Weiner's interviews that we won't be seeing any of that, and that's okay. I could see this story developing in other ways, focused on Don's evolution that would be equally as satisfying.
#209. though i dont disagree with what you say, that's not what happened. Roger said "little shit", not Don. Don said"can you believe he was going to leave?" or something like that…..
The report would cause smoking to drop 20% within months but by the end of 1965, the percentage of smokers still and who had taken up smoking was down only 4% from pre-report levels.
tobacco timeline
That last episode felt like a shot of adrenaline. Wow.
For those who say it was contrived, I've seen similar things happen in real life. My DH has worked for several startup companies, and they often come together with that type of speed and energy. The "OMG – X is starting what? And Y is going with him? We should definitely get Z in on it – does someone have her number?" is very real. And I've been in Trudy's shoes, though in my case it was listening in on another phone line, silently egging on some of the negotiation or frantically gesturing for DH to rein it in.
As far as rude awakenings are concerned, there's also underlying all the excitement over new beginnings this sense that they don't know what they're getting into and are in for another wakeup call:
1 – Betty is the obvious one. I'm going to take a note off of #207 and argue that it will come in the form of complete lack of sexual chemistry with Henry. Betty is such a sensual creature, and if the sex isn't good, the bitchiness will come out. And she probably won't get near a washer and dryer if he's that rich.
2 – The less obvious one will be the new SCDP. Of course, it's all heady and exciting what with robbing the company blind over the weekend. But things will get very difficult working in that tiny little room with a shoestring budget (I never thought I'd be so thankful for the pennypinching Lane). They are used to their own offices and space and used to letting issues fester between closed doors and secretaries acting as buffers (and doing their typing). I hope we get some good material out of Pete and Peggy sharing a desk. (Anyone catch that little glance she gave Trudy when lunch got delivered?)
#210 – I guess I am someone who will never see "hot" in someone (a man) on the verge of violence or "hot" because that man restrained himself. I've never been on the receiving end of any physical violence in a relationship but I know women who have and the last thing that ever crossed their mind of "hot." But, that's just me.
Two details I haven't seen mentioned:
When Joan comes swanning in, watch Cooper standing just slightly behind her giving her a very solid once over foot to hip. Probably it was seeing her in those cool black capris that got his heart pumping.
The other is when they are in the room before Trudy arrives with lunch, they are all working – except Roger, who is reading the paper. Such a great touch. He's got his one client and at the moment probably doesn't need to do any actual work so he's hanging out reading.
Pryce said, when they were plotting their getaway, that they would need a "skeletal staff" to get started and they chose the core group they needed to keep some continuity going and money coming in – if they value some of the others at SC, once they get situated a bit, they'll likely make an offer.
I don't see them in that hotel room(s) for that long – they just need to get established and get some cash flowing – they clearly need someone for the art and they haven't much for any more people – I'm guessing this is pretty temporary.
I loved when Joan was telling everyone where their spaces would be, Roger says "Accounts has the bed." So Roger. And, I loved the look Joan shot him after he said it. I hope those two do not get together because they are just too wonderful together as friends who understand each other and respect one another.
#218. You are right. I just watched that scene again with the volume turned way up. Roger called Pete "a little shit" after Don said "I can't believe he was going to leave." But, I still don't think either Roger or Don respect Pete. I stand by my assessment: they value him for the moment, but respect no.
#217 Rachel in Ca. If Betty didn't give Don love, do you think that Don gave Betty love? He was a good provider, but is that enough? He certainly didn't give her fidelity. It has been ten years of not letting Betty in, of hoarding money and living on his own terms. Yes, I was hoping she would show him some real compassion and that Don's revelation would be their turning point. I am disappointed that she is walking from their marriage – and in a very child like way- but I really believe that she is a woman of those times. She thinks happiness comes with marriage and a faithful husband, and sometimes they do. If that person loves you and respects you. Her mother taught her that. She is building a life raft-but she is child like and immature, and what else could she do given the circumstances? But, remember, it is Don who has been lying to her for in all likelihood their entire 10 year marriage. She told her psychiatrist in Season 1 that she knows when he is unfaithful, he is different in bed or something like that.. Maybe she senses his unfaithfulness with Suzanne? How could she not? She asked at one point this season: "Will you be sleeping at home?" It seemed contrived. As much as I wanted them to finally find their love, Don seemed ready….I have to argue Betty's side. (Maybe it is the lawyer in me.) She has had ten years of an unfaithful husband, who has treated her like a possession and who has never really let her in.
#223
I agree with your comments. They echo many that I stated above. I don't condone Betty's immaturity, but what seems to be missing in assessments is the evolution of time and the drain marriage/spousal behavior can take on a person. For Don, it was Betty's Nordic Ice Cold Queen nature and immaturity. For Betty, it was infidelity, serial lies, and Don's inability to "show up". Wow everyone, does anyone remember him leaving to get the cake for Sally's Birthday and then just never showing up again? What about all the nights he never showed up at home. On top of that, all the nights he showed up very late drunk as a skunk! Any human being would find that frustrating, maddening and full of a "I am not really here" message. I really can't stand Betty, she stinks as a Mom and is definitely a Nordic Ice Queen, but this marriage fell apart because of two people. Not one, and definitely quite an equal sharing of blame. So just because we don't like Betty's character does not mean she should shoulder all the blame just because Don is "HOT". Which he is. LOL
# 223 Suzanne Mills :
He tried to give her love when it counted, in the moments when he really was trying in the relationship and especially, once his secret was revealed. Was it too late? Probably. But he did try. And Betty is a hard one to love. She is cold, distant, a not particularly warm mother and a half-assed cook to bake. I think you could argue that –- within the context of the time period of the show — she wasn't holding up her end of the bargain either. Don didn't just stray because he's an f-ed up asshold; he strayed because there was no real intimacy in his marriage to his 'Nordic' wife.
As I said above, these are two flawed people. Neither one is 100% wrong or right.
Rachel in CA – @210 I kind of wanted to honestly engage your “lot more complex than simply ‘violence of any kind is wrong’†opinion but then I kept reading and came across this gem,
“Violence is not the optimal solution or expression of emotions, but sometimes a crack across the face can say more than any words ever could. Sorry if some of you find that politically incorrect (as I’m sure you will), but that’s how I see it.†(emphasis is mine.)
And I realized you’re probably not serious and just trolling for feminist outrage or a lefty/liberal visceral response. But it’s such tasty trolling; please allow me to retort.
I don’t find your statement politically incorrect; I find your statement misogynistic and sadomasochistic, perhaps even clinically sociopathic, that’s all.
Now truthfully about the heat in the that bedroom scene; if we were casually surfing channels and had the volume down and stopped and saw hunky aggressive Hamm wrestling with the defiantly precious damsel, I agree that could be "hot" in a voyeuristic kinda primal way, no doubt. I’ve said as much already.
But if we’re tuned into the show and stay engaged in the characters and story, like the excellent writing and production encourages us to do, then it is NO WAY HAWT. In order for that scene to be erotic, we have to pull it from context. We have to at least partially forget the entire path Don and Betty took to get there and we have to ignore the violent awakening, the drunkenness, the crying baby. We have to disconnect from the dramatic portrayal on the TV and daydream about certain elements of the presentation we find shiny and sexually stimulating.
If you want to discuss erotic imagery and sexual turn-ons in general, take a vote, I’ll raise my hand and play. But we clearly watched that episode completely differently and further discussion is probably pointless.
Though the rest of the stereotyped, patriarchal “she deserved it†clap-trap trope you mention is worth a few more words if they represent a genuine opinion. Let me know. I’ll make time tonight.
BTW I think “passionate†is used ironically there, no?
#226:
"And I realized you’re probably not serious and just trolling for feminist outrage or a lefty/liberal visceral response. But it’s such tasty trolling; please allow me to retort."
Wow. Um, no, I don't troll. And I was quite serious with what I posted. I love this show and what I expressed above is how I really feel about it. You can disagree if you like, I have no problem with that. But expect me to subscribe to your point of view because it differs from mine.
And I'll accept your apology for accusing me of being a troll whenever you're ready…
Thanks.
OK, I'll take your word for it this time.
I interpreted your actions to be troll-like. Of course, I should know that does not necessarily mean you live under bridges and harass goats.
I humbly apologize. I'll be back around 8PM.
Violence is not the optimal solution or expression of emotions, but sometimes a crack across the face can say more than any words ever could. Sorry if some of you find that politically incorrect (as I’m sure you will), but that’s how I see it.
Is this how you see it in your personal life, or just when it's two beautiful pretend characters on the screen?
How many times have you been hit by an angry man? Do you know what it feels like?
Do you come from a culture that finds it acceptable to hit women because, like Betty, they're bitches who deserve it? Is it hawt if she dies? How about if she gets stoned to death in a public market? Whack off moment?
Such a disturbing comment about a whack across the face being just the thing in certain circumstances. Not acceptable in any situation and hard to imagine anyone advocating such an act.
Not really worth much more of a response.
I never got the impression that Don was going in that direction even if the baby hadn't cried. Thankfully, not all anger winds up violence.
Very glad that sad miserable marriage is over. I don't care for the character of Betty – in any circumstance which is a testament to Weiner's writing and direction and January Jones' acting. She has been horribly messed with by Don for 10 years, yet she is such an unsympathetic character to me. Don, on the other hand, with all his many deceits, cheating, etc is still, somehow, someone I root for – again thanks to the excellent work by Weiner and the actors.
Rats…I'm going to miss this show. It really has ruined other shows for me – I watch them and I just get bored…oh, well, I do find I am reading a lot more these days and doing more artwork. So, that's a good thing…
#229:
Please don't jump to conclusions or insinuate that I come from an abused background or suggest that I would like to see Betty be stones — it's rather insulting on top of being more than a little silly. My comments above are about the subtleties of the violent aspects of this scene. If you're going to interpret that with black and white thinking, we'll be arguing for hours. And frankly, I'm not interested in that.
Have you ever wanted to smack someone who's done you really wrong in the face? I have (and I didn't smack them, btw.) That's what I was trying to get at here — the scene took both characters to the edge of violence, and that's what happens in relationships sometimes. It doesn't mean it's condoned by anyone, and certainly not myself. It's what happens in REAL LIFE not in the Politically Correct Fantasylands of Certain People's Minds. And in the case of Don and Betty, that is mixed in with a LOT of passionate undertones, given their history (sex was what brought them together, afterall.) And IMHO, yes, it creates a certain amount of sexiness in the scene.
Totally okay if you're not in agreement, but don't insult or insinuate if you're not. There is no right or wrong interpretation of this show. It has unique meaning(s) for all of us — which is why it is so utterly fabulous.
# I agree with many of the comments above b/c I thought the bedroom scene between Betty and Don was disturbing and in no way "hot." I even speculated that Betty grabbed baby Gene as sort of a shield/ to protect herself from the drunken Don. He yanked her out of bed with such force, and thank God, she stood up to him. I think if she had shown any weakness or intimidation it could have gone a very different way. She was not into him, and he was only enraged by her. At that moment, he was a scary, drunk bully, and not the oh so hot Jon Hamm I love to watch on TV!!!
Hmmmm….. I've been married for over 25 years, and I can say without shame that we have "had our moments" where, in a fit of anger during some argument, thurston has grabbed me roughly by the arm, and we've thrown and broken things in the house. I'm pretty sure I smacked him across the face once. We both knew we'd crossed a line. It happens in real life, and if you asked me if we have an abusive relationship because of a few uncharacteristic incidents over 25 years, I'd say "of course not, don't be ridiculous." It's not our normal pattern of arguing, but there have been occasions when it spilled over.
And there is often a sexual component to anger between two people – that's part of why "make up sex" has the reputation for being so hot.
I didn't find the scene hot, but I can totally understand why someone would might feel those undercurrents. Just because it isn't "right" doesn't mean it ISN'T.
well, flame away everyone.
#231- the fairy tale is in your head.
there's nothing subtle about saying, twice, that Betty just about deserved to be hit while at the same time proclaiming it "hot."
or saying that violence… a smack across the face, etc. is the best thing sometimes.
you are confusing the idea of dominance, which excites you, with the idea of an actual threat of physical violence. that's the subtlety that is confused in your posts.
I didn't ask you if you'd been hit because I thought you had been in an abusive relationship. I asked you because I thought you had no real idea what that was like.
I have been in an abusive relationship and there is NOTHING hot about being afraid of being hit, or afraid for your life while in an argument with someone….an argument that person "found" in everyday nothings of life. Nothing hot about it, at least for the one being abused. Even if it's a really hot-looking someone. Even if it's a really successful someone.
Yes, I've been angry enough to want to hit someone. And finally, after that person had almost ground me down to nothing with that "hot" violence, I did strike back. I would have killed him, I had decided in that moment, if he hadn't freaked out when I did stand up to him.
It's not about being pc to me. It's about a lack of understanding, apparently, of the difference between what excites you in your head and what happens in real life circumstances. It is the eliding of your response to the characters with the experience of others that I know about.
What Deborah talked about with the issues of sexual chemistry and anger, etc. is not the same as saying, as you did twice, that you thought Betty almost deserved to be hit. Twice.
You defend Don's actions and think it would be cathartic for him to hit her.
I don't think it's pc to point out that fantasy and reality are two vastly different things. Like fantasy vs reality rape.
I can't play yet but since you asked. Spinning one to set the mood.
Let me get outta here first.
Ooops, too late.
eye heart esme.
Nina Simone
Seriously, soberly and thoughtfully well said.
Rachel in CA please read that carefully, she said that very clearly and respectfully. No flames needed.
Perhaps we're all bringing our own baggage to this discussion. I've never been in an abusive relationship, so I don't have the visceral fear of it that those of you who have been in that kind of situation do. Pushing and shoving doesn't, to me, rise to the level of abuse, but that's because it never has gone further than that for me. So I didn't react as strongly to the scene between Don & Betty as many of you have. He grabbed her arm, and he grabbed her nightgown. He was shouting in a threatening way. She shouted back. But he DIDN'T hit her. He DIDN'T beat her to within an inch of her life. Some of you thought he was going to, or pictured in your minds where this could lead. But it DIDN'T lead there. He stopped himself. There are lots of things Betty might have said that could have escalated things too. She didn't.
Don is capable of playing dirty. Remember Bobbie in the restaraunt?
He has a lot of his father in him.
gypsy – yes, I know he didn't hit Betty. that's not the point.
scot – yes. I thought I made that clear in my post.
I'm responding to the mixture of "this fantasy person/scenario is hot" and "sometimes it's the best thing to smack somebody cause it says so much so much faster than words."
that's what I take issue with. if that's an angry thought, that's one thing. if it's an action, it's another.
Don was really angry, to me. So was Betty. That scene showed their marriage was broken. It was a George and Martha moment, to me.
I don't think you have to have personal experience with abuse to view the situation in that way.
Imagine if George and Martha (Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf) were saying those lines in that room. Still hot?
Do you come from a culture that finds it acceptable to hit women because, like Betty, they’re bitches who deserve it? Is it hawt if she dies? How about if she gets stoned to death in a public market? Whack off moment?
esme, I'm reacting to this comment. I think we're all a little overheated in this discussion, bringing to it our own prejudices and experience, and reading into it more than what was actually shown there. I guess that's what makes MM so emotionally powerful.
I wouldn't say that my feelings about violence is a prejudice – it's hard for me to imagine that some people actually think violence is an answer to anything other than self-defense, but then, thankfully, I don't know any people who are violent to the people in their lives.
I do know, however, some women who have been victims of it and the consequences of it are traumatic beyond words.
The words used on this forum did not come across as directed only at the characters in this show. The sentence "Violence is not the optimal solution or expression of emotions, but sometimes a crack across the face can say more than any words ever could" does sound like someone who believes that it is an answer in certain situations.
I did read the explanation from the poster who made that comment but it doesn't change the implication of the comment.
Anybody order a pizza?? oh wait, try this instead.
Well @#227, it appears most of my grievances have been aired by others here.
esme @#234 hit most of the high notes. I had a hypothetical constructed around a snuff film but thought that might over the top, then esme brings out the fantasy rape concept and that illustrated the same point actually much less squidgier than mine. Nothing new to add.
I won't pile on,
though I think that sounds kinda hot. . .
Quoting Bartlett, "What's next?"
Regarding the “hawt”:
I think it’s important to note a difference between voyeuristic pleasure in the scene and observing the reaction of Don in that moment. The former seems to be taking quite a beating, pardon the expression, from the idealist camp here. However, it’s not at all far-fetched to believe that Don felt sexual desire for Betty in that scene. Calling Betty a whore seemed to make Don aware that she doesn’t belong to him. I don’t think Don has fantasies of being cuckolded, but the psychological mechanism of wanting something he doesn’t possess is consistent with his sexuality.
What about Danny? Will he contact Don? Might Don hire him at SCDP?
@ 200 Dark Peggy- I was disagreeing with you and explaining why. Sally is going to be a handful for both parents.
Remember Bobbie in the car in the hail storm? She’s capable of playing dirty too. They were equals in that relationship.
#243 – gypsy – I was being sarcastic. hyperbolic. because, again, the statement that seems so odd is what Lee noted, above:
“Violence is not the optimal solution or expression of emotions, but sometimes a crack across the face can say more than any words ever couldâ€
taking things to absurd conclusions.
#222. I think Roger's disrespect of Pete has remained pretty much the same. Roger calling Pete a "little shit" was a great touch because Roger called Pete exactly the same thing in 'New Amsterdam' when Pete was first proving to be an upstart.
However, I think Don's relationship to Pete has changed a lot. In S1 you could feel Don's dislike and contempt for Pete in every scene they shared. Now that has worn off. I think at the end of S2 they established that Don and Pete were becoming allies. First by Pete covering for Don when he bailed on the California trip, then by Pete giving Don the information he needed to squeeze out Duck Philips. I think Don was sincere in S2 when he told Pete he knew he could "handle it" (i.e., the business trip) on his own, just like Don trusted that Pete would not fail in his mission to bring in the 8 million in accounts that the new agency needed.
I'm surprised that there are so many fans who still think Don was just shining Pete on (insincerely) on both these ocassions. I think Don does have a genuine respect for Pete, even if it's grudging respect. The line "I can't believe he was going to leave…" was telling. Don thought he was so maverick – breaking out of the agency and taking a fistful of accounts with him. Then he discovers that "little shit" Pete Campbell had the idea first. There is a great moment after Don shakes hands with Pete where he gives him a long sideways look with one raised eyebrow. Don is definitely impressed by Pete.
@248, just wanted to confirm before I responded. I never said she wasn't going to be a handful with both or wouldn't ever fight with Don. I said that she and Betty will fight a lot and it will be intense. I said that b/c Mother's and daughter's tend to fight a lot more than daughters and Dads, also Sally will probably be living with Betty and Don will swoop in and do weekend Daddy with presents and neat trips etc so she will have more opportunity to fight with her and to take her for granted. I also said that she will blame Betty for the break-up, which she already did. I didn't say she didn't yell at Don too and I didn't say he will get off entirely, but I did say that she will probably not see his part in it as much until she is older b/c unless Betty tells her, which she probably wont' until she is old enough to understand, if ever, she probably wont' recognize that as much until she is older and is more able to sympathize with her Mom. Plus she has already yelled at Betty and fought with her on several occasions, but less so with Don and notice whose bed she was curled up in when her parents stopped sharing a bed.
Also, not sure what you meant about the Stones fan thing. Lots of people like the Rolling Stones, and other 60's groups, and that doesn't necessarily mean they fought with their folks or ran away from home. I'm sure there are people who rebelled in the 60's and fought with their parents who weren't huge into the Stones or preferred other bands.
I think Don was surprised by both Peggy and Pete that they would put aside their hero worship of him and look beyond his orbit for professional fulfillment. This season has been a big wakeup call for Don that he is expendable.
Frankly, the hero worship that co-workers like Peggy & Pete have for Don has always seemed pretty unrealistic. Bosses that unpredictably vent and humiliate are universally hated by their underlings, regardless of how much respect they may have for the boss' creativity or competence.
#249 Falafel. I think you are right. I change my opinion of Pete and Don. Roger may not respect Pete- but Don -yes I like it- has a "grudging respect" for Pete. Your examples prove me wrong. He is slowly turning around for Pete. But Pete clearly doesn't believe him entirely yet. Good. I liked your comment.
Thanks Suzanne! I think ever since Cooper's line "One never knows how loyalty is born" the writers have been building an unlikely alliance between Don and Pete. Though considering this connection was "born" out of Pete discovering the truth about Dick Whitman, I think there is an edge to it. Sometimes I wonder if Don's relationship to Pete is really an elaborate example of "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer". Regardless of Don's grudging respect for Pete, I also think Don treads carefully with those who know his secret.
Back to the Lane Pryce thread:
# 190 Soupcon the Cat Said:
"What Lane brings is simple: He’s the bean-counter… Lane’s the only one who can do it. "
# 191 David Ogilvy Said:
"Sure… Lane will be the Managing Partner. But in a small firm, with only a handful of accounts, that's probably not a position you need to have a Partner responsible for …. You hire an Operations Manager, rather than give him 25% of the store.
…. if I were Bert Cooper and had to fund this startup, I'd take out a huge term insurance policy on the life of Donald Draper… or should that be Dick Whitman?"
Ogilvy is right to say that you could hire someone,
cheap (relatively so), to do Lane's job,
but, and it's a biigggg BUT:
Lane would not play with a major stake in the rogue firm.
Draper, Sterling, and Cooper were all tied up,
legally, probably with the "standard non-compete clause". All needed to be severed from that obligation.
(and I wonder, if Weiner wants to go there, if PPL/SC won't sue anyway, to enforce those contracts)
(even if they do, however, they will not recapture the lost accounts. SCDP's lawyers will delay, and PPL/SC will settle for peanuts)
(remember Cooper and Draper still have most, if not more, of the PPL money from the buyout)
S, C, and D could play dirty and screw P
- but if they were that kind
then S and C would have
screwed D last season at the buyout.
Oh, like Ogilivy, I would definitely, no-doubt-in-my-mind, also take that big term policy out on not only Draper but on Sterling.
Once Sterling gets used to wearing out the shoe leather and schoomzing clients, he'll be unbeatable again.
In fact, I look forward to Cooper working clients, too.
I think Roger is right that Don is not good at relationships because he doesn't value them. However, it felt clear to me that Don was angry at Roger because he used him as ammunition for his divorce from Mona.
So this is where you all are!
esme, I saw more Tony and Carmela in the scene in question than George and Martha — but that's because I know their script better, and Tony and Carmela were such excellent fighters. Their arguments were great, scenery-chewing small-screen stuff. Terrific chemistry between equals.
I also saw that from the moment Don reacted to Roger's news in that bar, he understood for the first time who his wife really is (and what she wants). The thrilling clarity of his angry words to her confirmed that.
It was a tough scene to watch, but dramatically necessary. Every word of it, every gesture, was essential.
As for the rest of this thread:
I had a hypothetical constructed around a snuff film
Only you, l-o-m. Only you.
Anne B: yes, we've been over here for ages, chewing away at the finale….
I think Don, Roger and Bert have come to realize the value (begrudgingly of course) of Lane's talents. Lane understands the numbers side of the business — how to make their crazy enterprise actually profitable.
Don was the first to recognize that none of the rest of them could do that. Ever since "Guy" I thought Lane and Don had developed a sort of understanding and respect for each other. There will always be clashes between the guys who spend money (Creative and Accounts) and the bottom line guys. When they have respect for each other, the enterprise can thrive.
I thought Don figured it out and pointed it out beautifully to Bert & Roger.
I hope Lane is with them for a long, long time. He's essential for SCDP and great for the show.
I thought Don was mad at Roger because he sold the company just to marry Jane.
@260: Everything gypsy_howell says. Also, isn't it lovely to watch how Lane is opening up, smiling more, and actually LIKING this set-up and these people? It may be the first time he has really felt like a team player, or even knew what that really meant.
It will be interesting to see what his wife is doing next season.
Also, just a shout-out to Jared Harris, who has played such amazingly different characters in his career so far. I couldn't believe he was the same actor who played Captain Mike in Benjamin Button!
And, just because, I looooooved Richard Harris in… well, everything.
Anne B. Yes, this is where we all seem to be coming back. Do you think we will hit 300 posts on "Rude Awakenings?" My phone keeps shooting me more comments here, so I keep coming back. So, was Don angry w/Roger b/c he sold the company or b/c he thought so little of him w/Jane? Was Roger right to think Don was "judging" him? Roger does seem to read people well. When Don was first told that the SC was being sold to PPL upon his return from his Jet Set excursion to California, he didn't seem angry w/Roger about it. When did that change? What was all that commentary about at the Kentucky Derby when Don told Roger that everyone is laughing at him. I never quite understood why Don shut out Roger. Thoughts? Clarification?
#263, why Don shut out Roger:
What was the episode in which Don found out that Roger had used their private bar conversation to tell Mona that Don had encouraged him to follow his "dreams" and get a divorce? Don was not intimating that at all, he was actually talking about himself, but drunken Roger took it to give him permission to leave Mona and grab Jane (and Don had no idea that Jane was even in the picture).
Later, Mona came storming in to Don's office to accuse him of being the reason that she and Roger were divorcing. I think this was the impetus of the Don/Roger feud, as it cost Sterling Cooper the company, and it made Don subservient to PPL.
Yes, Don made got a significant financial windfall. But he had to sell his soul to the PPL devil. I can see why Don was pissed at Roger.
I think that Roger has felt "judged" in general, since he married Jane … in part because he knows the judges are right. (And to be fair, the harshest is Bert: "that trollop", and all.)
And I think his decision to marry Jane is now one Roger regrets. She is a bratty child, and she seems more childish in contrast to the women he still loves: the "lioness" Mona, whom he has lost, and his one true love, Joan.
Don meant what he said to Roger at the Derby Day party, but he spoke in anger, which is a tragic flaw of Don's. (And now we see where he gets it.) Don did see Roger as foolish, but he also saw his happiness, and he may have been jealous of it: Roger had succeeded where Don had failed.
But what it comes down to with Don and Roger is that Roger broke a confidence. Roger took Don's casual comments in the bar as both a life direction, and a parting shot to Mona; in the couple of seconds it took for Mona's announcement to sink in, Don connected his earlier conversation with Jane ("I'm a discreet person") with what Roger had done to Mona. And to him.
I think that Don angry is frightening, and he does hold a grudge. It took ages to bring those two back together. Roger's apology to Don when he thoughtlessly dropped Henry's name in that bar was so heartfelt — I mean, he said he was sorry TWICE — you really felt for the guy.
He was scared of losing his best pal. Again. And so were we, right?
258- it was probably a pirate snuff film, too. =: O
#264 goodsally. The Don & Roger bar chat happened during "The Six Month Leave" after they took Freddy Rumson out for his goodbye night on the town. Mona barges in the next day & blames Don for her marriage break up & Don is unhappy when he realizes the secretary that Roger is leaving Mona for is his own, Jane. He tells Roger: "I want her taken off my desk." Don seemed angry that it was Jane- not that Mona barged in & blamed him. Later, he goes to Ca., comes back to discover SC is sold to PPL -but he will make $500,000. He doesn't seem angry at Roger then. So, when? When the rift? It doesn't really seem to have happened until their exchange at the Kentucky Derby Party. Was that it?
See, it's backchat about pirate snuff films that's going to vault us to #300, and well beyond.
Thanks, esme. Ahoy!
Anne B. I saw your post late. So, its just about Roger using Don's words to break off his marriage w/Mona and Don feeling a confidence was broken and maybe jealousy too that Roger is/was happy? Then of course, being one who doesn't value relationships, Don just cut Roger out…. OK. I think that just demonstrates how bad Don is at relationships: unforgiving and/or having the ability to hold a grudge.
#269 Suzanne,
I think what I believe is that while Don can communicate, he is better at leaving than he is at staying. So that is what he typically does.
But he can build and cultivate relationships — in fact this is something he is getting better at, and the world is turning more his way, as honesty comes into vogue. But he is also learning that one size of communication does not fit all. It's generally women who teach him this.
Don's great gift is his ability to listen, learn, and move forward with the new skills he has adapted. The man we saw at the end of "Shut the Door. Have a Seat" was already remaking himself, and his corner of the world.
Succeed or fail, I have to think that's better than waiting to see what the old order has in store for you.
#265 Anne B:
"And I think his decision to marry Jane is now one Roger regrets. She is a bratty child, and she seems more childish in contrast to the women he still loves: the "lioness" Mona, whom he has lost, and his one true love, Joan."
In "The Grown Ups," Roger says to Mona on the phone (about Jane), "We both agree that she's nuts and she should shut up." So!
#271 goodsally. I thought that when Roger was talking to Mona on the phone about Margaret's tantrums & possibly calling off the wedding, he was talking about Margaret – not Jane.
#264 Suzanne Mills: I will watch "Six Month Leave" again… but I think something Don said then (at the bar, something that had nothing to do with Roger and Mona) prompted Roger to tell Mona that DON SAID he should just leave a marriage that wasn't satisfying him. Again, I'm remembering without rewatching…
AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! GGGH!! (cough,cough) RRRGHHhHHH!!!
A little floggin' and groggin' is guid fo' what ails ya' wenches.
Hee! We're all posting at around the same time, so overlap… Anne B. is gettin' us all straight. Thanks.
Agree about Don being able to learn and grow, being able to build and cultivate relationships as he learns, and that's what makes him so interesting to watch each season.
The look on his face at the end of the finale was priceless… it was like a redemption. He had bared his soul and been told he wasn't worthy, but he found out that indeed he was worthy to some. He had begun to learn how to value relationship.
#271 Suzanne Mills: Oh! will rewatch. I totally took that to mean he was talking about Jane. Wishful thinking on my part perhaps! :
#271 goodsally. I thought that when Roger was talking to Mona on the phone about Margaret’s tantrums & possibly calling off the wedding, he was talking about Margaret – not Jane.
Grog aside, this is what I am for. Gettin' ye all straight.
No, really. This is why I moved to San Francisco. SOMEbody had to do it.
Seriously … I do think that Don comes to a point, at the end of "Shut the Door. Have a Seat", where he genuinely wishes Betty well. He knows how different she is from him. Trudy is a huge help in this regard: she is a physical, visible reminder of what a happy woman who's a good match for her husband looks like, and will do when she wants to be with him.
God bless Trudy. God Bless Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, every one.
274 – careful. or anne b will give you a go round like you've never had before.
goodsally – I don't know if there is anything redemptive about this show. maybe. maybe that's a goal but I have never gotten the impression that the show aims for "growth." I do think it aims for a look at "change."
going back to the very first impression of the series, the opening credits, I always see that as a moment when the ground shifts beneath Don's feet. The shadow of the horrors of 9-11 are there in that fall as well, to me, but are not literally referenced.
I've read some people see that opening sequence as a jump. I see it as a fall.
And the interesting thing is that Don ends up surviving without seeming to change all that much.
278 Esme. Oh no, yuck, sadness, I never put the Don jump/fall in the opening credits scene in connection with the shadows of September 11/people jumping out of those buildings here in NYC. Interesting…. However, I have to wipe that image out of my mind now, or it will just make me sad…..
You’re welcome Falafel! I originally thought Don uttered “the little shit” comment, and I drew my conclusions from that statement. On replay, because someone on this blog pointed it out, I saw it was Roger who made the comment. I have a thought about Don and his relationships with people. It is hard, in general, to assess whether he now respects Pete or others b/c he really has had no relationships on this show to observe. In other words, having never really seen him be a good friend or value others, it is hard to tell when or if he is starting to do just that. He has had no male friends (other than Roger for a short time, whom Don turned on very quickly once Don started “to judge” him for marrying Jane), and even Roger couldn’t get through b/c Don is “so secretive.” I loved Roger calling him out during the final episode on his inability to have relationships: “You don’t value relationships because you are no good at them.†Maybe his friendship w/Roger can start again- I loved their interactions & their comradery (albeit it always seems to be taking place in a bar). I think Roger was always trying to get close to Don and figure him out… he was trying to figure out where he was from, why he dropped his Rs, etc. Roger is a people person (and now I understand what an account person is)…but poor Don is not. I hope he can become one.
So we're out in the back forty of the Whitman spread talking of Roger now?
How'd that happen? These blood drenched fields remind me of Shiloh.
A quick Roger-ing if I may. And Happy Christmas.
Roger really mentored Dick/Don into Don Draper. Don was writing copy and still wet behind the ears and probably still dry in the liver too. Don followed Roger's lead; copied all the manly affectations, developed the cynicism and skirt chasing, bought his way into the GoodLife and still wasn't happy. Don begins to resent the Glib One, especially as he eventually sees Roger is not happy either. Don the former used carsalesman realizes he bought a lemon of a role model in RS. But at the bar in Six Months Leave, Roger takes Don's philosophizing as solemn advice thereby switching roles with the Alpha Role Switcher himself. Mentee is now unintentional Mentor. Roger decides to reverse those roles, break the pact and radically pursue Happiness, leaving Don feeling burned and responsible. This resentment just grows from there. And I think DD isn't even really specifically certain why he dislikes RS. They're more on equal footing now, it could be fun to watch.
—————
Anne B, you've been released! You are in good company.
The Corleones made it out of NYC somewhat successfully, but it kept pulling Michael back in.
The Giants and the Dodgers both got out and had some fun in the sun. (though the Large Guys without the LARGE guy haven't been the same)
And of course, we can't forget this guy.
Welcome back Snake P Anne B!
And she brings the goods too! @277. I'll throw in another two centavos and go a little further. Just theory but that smile when Don sees Trudy reminds him a specific Betty moment we have not been privy to, probably in the Year One of the Drapers before she got pregnant and before he started to calcify in MadManDon. She brings him a sandwich when he is actually working late in his new job at SC, they eat, they talk, they make Teh Hawt passionate monkey-love on a ragged sofa. Life is good. For a while.
esme– @278 answering with worn pop lyrics again, (it's my go-to pitch)
"Maybe the time has drawn the faces I recall
But things in this life change very slowly,
if they ever change at all
There's no use in asking why,
it just turned out that way
So meet me at midnight baby
inside the Sad Cafe.
Two steps forward, one step back.
Sorry for verbosity and overlap, Dial -up BLOWS!!
l-o-m.
Silly. I wear the patch on the OTHER eye.
And if I may make a tepid, vague defense of the snuff film hypothetical, it was that or an Auschwitz allegory. Things were heated. I was tired. I gamed out the rhetorical scenarios and felt I might just as well go thermonuclear; turn the whole place to glass. Declare victory, depart the field, get a Fresca, move to another blog.
But Rosenfreude seized the initiative and made my point, very succinctly, before the fail/safe marker.
The Draper Showdown was very, eerily personal for me and my dander was up.
sorry Suzanne. the credit sequence also reminds me of Blade Runner with the huge smiling adverts. but it's too bright to be quite that dystopian. Or a tragedy of real life.
l-o-m – the jump from Trudy to Betty to monkey sex sounds like a very special episode of the show inside your head.
I thought Trudy reminded Don of the every day grace we can bring to life… and that wishing Betty well was his way to attain a moment of grace. As creepy as Pete is, he loves Trudy and she reciprocates. Unlike Don, who was relived when Betty asked him to move out in S2. Or Betty, who has decided she'll be relived to be without him, too.
I really love the Trudy character because she is so relentlessly happy but it doesn't make you want to roll your eyes at her. that's pretty amazing, for me.
okay, so here's how it went down in Six Month Leave. Marilyn Monroe died. Jane went to Roger to keep from getting fired and they started to start to have an affair. Joan knew this was on its way b/c she knows Roger. And Jane's m.o. Jane was going for the bosses. don or roger. (no guy who writes shorts stories for her. I loved that look she gave Ken in the elevator…but that's another episode.) Speaking of…Betty had confronted Don about his affair with Bobby, so Don was staying at the Roosevelt. Jane got a call from Sally and tried to insinuate herself into Don's personal life and he shut her down. Later she (I loved this part) got Don more shirts… from Menken's! … and Don was mightily skiiiiived since she was also trying to fix him breakfast. Rumson pissed his pants and Pete and Duck (duck, goose) got him fired b/c of. btw, that was a great lampshade in Freddy's office behind Pete. Is there a reason why the designated drunkard had the best lampshade? Sterling and Don took Freddy out for a night because he got fired. (Jane had told Roger that Don was staying at the Roosevelt, because, when they're making plans to take Don out, Roger pointedly asks if Don needs to call the misses and Don knows Jane was talking about him to Roger. Jane, bad idea. Just ask Bobbie.) Heartbreaking and killer series of scenes and Freddie gets into that taxi forever. Sterling confronts Don about being on the outs with Betty. Don talks about this being "your life" like the big "you" and Roger, apparently, takes this to his recently messed up heart. "You have to move forward." Mona does a lioness prowl into Don's office because Roger used Don's words as a way to back up his decision to leave Mona. Roger. bad form. Mona thinks Roger is leaving her for HIS secretary. Don's all "huh?" Mona leaves and Roger comforts Jane, who starts crying and Don gets that both Sterling and Jane have seriously messed with his boundaries and Don tells Roger he wants Jane off his desk.
so, yeah, Roger made it sound like Don was giving advice to Roger when Don was talking about life in general and himself in particular but not Roger leaving Mona for Jane "Rumson" – and that's sort of poetical-ish irony that Roger was sort of snarky with Freddy about how Roger's dad was funny drunk to the adults but not the Roger kid and then Roger falls in love with the drunk girl.
This woman's voice soothes my soul.
Cat Power on Jools Holland.
Once I wanted to be the greatest
No wind or water fall could stall me
And then came the rush of the flood
The stars at night turned deep to dust…
apropos to nothing.
"I think she's got it, by Jove I think she's got it."
Are you tired after that? The stream of consciousness flows swiftly.
re: that special episode, the monkeys are tame; Trudy and Betty, not so much. They all wear blue to start, naturally.
Oh and another thing. The pirate snuff film logically morphs of course into the undead zombie pirate film. You left that out earlier, smart stuff!
@ 250 Dark Peggy- I see your point now. Sally being a Stones fan was totally unrelated to rebellion.