If you’re not at our Season Finale party, take part in the virtual party here. And who knows? Legends has wifi, one or more of us may pop in and say hi (but I doubt it).
Although this is our last Open Thread of the year, please be assured that Basket of Kisses is open year-round. We will be writing about all three seasons of Mad Men, speculating about Season 4, posting Mad News, running Mad Gossip, following our cast and crew in their other ventures, discussing the time period, the fashion, the deep insights available from repeated viewing, and so much more. Believe me, Season 4 premiere is just around the corner, and there’s the awards season to consider.
So don’t leave after tomorrow, and in the meantime, enjoy tonight! I can hardly wait.
449 Responses to “Open Thread: Shut the Door. Have a Seat”
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squeal!
who's got the suicide pool? I'll take Sal, even though it's soooo cliche.
Any bets on Grey buying SC?
Have fun, Lipp Sisters and party goers! We'll hold down the fort here!
We made beanie weenies and pear salad for supper tonight — I'm Sally's age, and that's what we'd have for a supper treat in the early sixties when my dad was out of town. We've got chocolate pudding for dessert.
Tomorrow, back to the real-life diet, but tonight is for celebrating the end of a delicious season. It's been fun to ride it out with you — thanks for this site and for all you do.
"Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night!" Who knows what lurks…
T-90 minutes.
As a recent and infrequent poster, I was sort of feeling like one of the kids left at home while all the grownups went to the party. It's good to see some of the adults stayed home to keep us company. Do wish I could be at the party, though.
Squeal indeed!! All day long I've been singing, "MADmen MADmen MADmen MADmen…" – choked up it's the finale, but cannot wait to see it –
Just found this site 2 weeks ago, I read every comment!! Sure appreciate everyone's massively excellent & thoughtful response to this show…hate to call it a "show" – "phenomenon", howzat?
I'm whichoo all tonight – ! Wherever you may be!
I'll catch up with you guys after the first showing — want to focus!
Wish I was with you in NYC but I will be virtually!
I had toyed with the idea of driving a John Deere lawn mower to the party, but David Lynch was already booked.
I am so excited for tonight's episode I can barely stand it!
In the meantime, as an infrequent poster but long time lurker, I would like to share my thanks to everyone for the great discussions on here. Many things that I missed or were over my head made much more sense with everyone's thoughts, input, interpretations, etc., thus making the show so much richer. I will miss my Sunday nights with the Basketcases until next season!
see you on the flipside, Lipp ladies! Have a wonderful time at your party. We'll hold down the fort here.
Hi karl, hi brenda, hi ms D, hi esme, hi newbies and welcome.
I'm dreading and excited.
I'm new to the site and so thrilled that I found you! Can't wait for tonight's show. Wish I could join you at your fabulous party. For your own sakes, please keep the martinis and oysters to a minimum.
I'm on (unsuccessful) suicide watch for Mrs. Betty Draper. A little too much wine with your pills, Mrs Draper? Was it really suicide or just ennui and profound sadness? The always capable Carla finds her just in time, or maybe Sally gets there first, as if Sally really needed more reason to start therapy . . . Betty's advised to take a break– Mommy's got to go away for a long rest. Isn't that how they did it in the 60's?
I also think that when Pete talks to his clients about leaving with him for Grey, he finds out nobody really wants to go with him and leave Don Draper's Creative Dept. Pete slinks back to his SC office, goes home and verbally abuses Trudy. . . again.
Can't wait. . .enjoy the party!
Dahlhalla is at the party, says the hair styling has already started.
What's happening everyone?
How excited are you for tonight's finale?
This season has gone by so incredibly fast.
T-58 minutes.
My death pool prediction: Betty dies about 32 minutes into the episode. Cause: accidental lethal cocktail of pills and booze.
I'm so excited and kind of sad! I'll probably come here on commercial breaks, and won't say too much until after the first showing. Here we go everybody!
My eyes and ears at the party says I was just mentioned and applauded. And I may be the only BasketHelper absent. I am fairly sure there's linkage.
I'm so bummed it's already over this season! I can't guess what will happen.
I'm so glad I found this site – the AMC boards were driving me crazy.
Have a great time at the party!
Welcome, lindaS!
(I'm sure the Lipps would welcome you also, if they were not partying.)
Karl – no offense taken – I'd rather be at the party too.
I'm still trying to decide on my drink for the night…
BoK is the only serious board. Historical perspective. Sharp witted barbs. Immaculate accuracy. Brilliant speculation. Welcome to the camp! (We all know why you're here)
T-27 minutes.
tick tick tick…
Mmmm… The Who.
#24 lindaS:
"I’m still trying to decide on my drink for the night…"
I'm having a glass of whole milk with my chocolate pudding. Is that wussing out? :>
Gawd, it's either "Prince Charles at 60" or the Dog Ass Cowboys v. Philly until MM starts! tick tick tick…
The Cleveland Show isn't so bad, Farnham.
*tumbleweeds flow by*
Man, hope that didn't have my status on here taken down a few notches…
Naw, we're all OK with whatever it takes to pass the time… tick tick tick…
I'm as curious about celeb sightings at the party as I am about what happens in the finale- well almost.
OK, where's the streaming video for the party?
My spy at the party lost Mad Men Jeopardy:
GoodSally – definitely not wussing out with the milk. I'm jealous of the pudding now…
T-13 minutes.
One of the CBC art directors predicted that the season will end with Don coming home to find Betty gone and Connie waiting in their bed…
Michael Gladis is at the party.
tick tick tick…
7 minutes!
Thanks, lindaS. :> We had a Mad Men supper/dessert here tonight, to celebrate the finale… so glad to be watching it with y'all.
40 some minutes (when you subtract the commercials) to tie up all those loose ends.
I'm here… in Boston, not NYC. Let's have a Bronx cheer for last-minute Monday morning meetings.
I just made a Manhattan, so at least I'm with you in libation, Lipp Sisters!
Melba toast, anyone?
I repeat:
Michael Gladis is at the party.
T-5 minutes.
Get him to post, Karl!
I saw that the show is supposed to actually start at 10:15, is that true? Me, I'm taping it starting at 10 and letting it run until about 11:15 because it is supposed to run around 7 minutes longer. God, I am about to pass out on my fainting couch I am so excited. My Betty Draper Gimlet is ready to go, smokes ready to light, cream cheese and celery, no capers, to snack upon, this is going to be glorious. It will be fine. I may have to take a pill.
Michael Gladis?! ARGH! … Why aren't you at the party, Karl?
I have no direct line, but if the Lipps check in, who knows?
T-2 minutes.
Drop the briefcase
Can't someone twitter some party pix for us? Pleez …
my favorite opening title sequence ever.
(Potential) Family issues.
And my cable just went out.
It's back now.
I thought I was gonna have a Roger.
This is it! I'm going to cry at the end. D:
OH MY GOD! McCann Eriksson?
Well, looks like Greg won't be dealt with in this finale. I don't really like the intros to episodes, they seem to spoil the upcoming plotlines. :/
Oh, snap!! PPL is being bought!!
It's McCann Erickson. What happens now?
holy shit….hilton is over before it begins
I don't know why I'm noticing this, but the chairs squeaking as they stand adds such authenticity.
Doesn't Don see what Hilton is getting at?
Hmmmm. Lots of ending of contracts……
LBO! LBO!
Golden tomb line staggers Bert
Ooo, honest Don is letting it all out!
perhaps we will enter season 4 with Don heading up his own agency?
trollope
This show is finally living up to its title.
Everyone is fucking irate.
Awe …. Don & Roger made up…. kinda.
Bert really knows how to deal the blows.
Sorry to hear that Karl, but I appreciate your acting as the B0K Party Feed.
How often do former founders buy back their own companies? It seems convenient for the show (Roger, Don, and Bert, back in the saddle!), but I wonder how realistic it is.
Cooper Draper?
Holy crap.
Sterling Cooper Draper?
So Don's in a brown suit. Whatdoes that mean? Reagon wore brown as his sincere color.
LOL at Reagan and sincere being in the same sentence.
wow. i didn't expect betty to drop a bomb like that. we're not even 5 minutes in. whoo…
To paraphrase Don Draper.
"Betty, you haven't thought this through".
I love Lane's glasses. So much that I'm wearing my own pair right now!
In five seconds, Joan and Sal will both be rehired, the way things are going.
"Maybe you should see a doctor"?
Ok, how many times has your condescension actually *solved* your marital problems, Don? Sometimes I feel badly for Don, whose golden 50's era has passed, but sometimes – smoothness and powers of reinvention aside – I can't believe he got as far as he did with attitude like that.
So if Don helps buy the company, then Betty won't get much money?
I love Don's move to hold together the threads of the two cords that hold his life together.
OMG! What's Henry doing there???
Lane's about to defect to SC finally!
#83 It would be in Don's best interest to shed assets ASAP. But, he could shift them to a trust and Betty couldn't access it.
Betty's divorce and the attempted buy out. clash.
Don won't consent to a divorce, especially when he finds out there's a rival
Henry's a political staffer. Unless he's got some family money he can't support Betty in the fashion to which she has become accustomed.
Oh man, here it comes… Archie…
Do we find out tonight how Archie was killed?
Hahahaha!
Fire us!
Don is brilliant!! Course, we knew that already.
So do Peggy and or Pete go to the new shop?
BRILLIANT. Oh my GOD!
This goddamn episode.
Oh my god.
Wow, this is hardcore. And guess who they need? Joanie.
Friday the 13th!
I LOVE seeing Burt Cooper's hand go up.
The new agency!!! And staff to service them. What does Pete do? What does Ken do? What does Peggy do?
Oh wow… absolutely loving Peggy right now!
How cool is this!!!
Wow…Peggy's (apparently) out! Though it is rather early to say.
They need… Sal.
Oh Peggy, take the opportunity and then peace out later. Damn
At the same time I'm liking her boldness right now
Thelast time Betty wore a grey suit is when she confronted the therapist in season 1
Mmmmmm. George Clooney.
Another glimpse at the party.
She says Gladis is soooooooo nice. But we knew that.
Peggy rocks.
#90 Chuck, maybe Betty will realize that if she goes to stay the weekend with Henry, or if she moves to Reno with him. She can't be oblivious/ up in the clouds for that long before she notices the kinks in his armor.
But if, somehow, Betty could be happy with him, then it's for the best. But like I said, Betty has probably left a wake of boyfriends who couldn't make her happy.
Peggy said no! Okay, girl, make him beg, but then go with him!
Don — call Joan and Sal now!
And then call Betty and beg her not to divorce you!
GOd, more's happened in 25 minutes than the rest of the season!
I love that Bert didn't let himself be pushed off on an ice floe.
I love that Peggy stood up for herself.
I KNEW that Lane would side with them in the end!
Watch. Peggy will show her loyalty to Don at the end.
Has anyone else ever noticed the golden horseshoe on a plaque behind and to his left of Don when he's sitting at his desk? Do you suppose that's just… coincidence, given the horse flashback?
And Peggy wore grey instead of plaid.
Peggy may not have as much leverage as she thinks she has. She's just another talented copywriter – NYC is full of them.
Don't overplay your hand Peggy.
A Christmas tree? Did people put them up that early back then? We didn't put ours up until the Sunday before Christmas.
Hell – Don gets Pete!!!!
Honest AND progressive Don! I likey. Guess he just needed his marriage to end and his job to disappear, haha.
I. am. SO loving this episode!
Who knows how loyalty is born!
Peggy's talent doesn't grow on trees. Remember Paul's lost idea and realization that he'll never be the next Don Draper.
O.M.G! Don has found out!!
Red door alert.
Watch out for the guy at the bar, boys.
holy crap!!! Roger knew??!
Great scene how Pete and Trudy kissed, then dashed off in opposite directions to the upbeat music – very evocative of a madcap romance film from the 60's.
OH CRAP! HENRY FRANCIS!
OMG! Roger tells Don about Betty and Henry!
Nice little bit of acting there by John Slattery.
Hoo-eee, the world is a small place in 1963.
This episode's got something new every minute…
woah
This episode is so damn FUN!
All of us who have complained about missing the office stuff over the domestic depression are finally getting what we wanted.
Call her on her facade Don!
Oh no. He's going to slap her around.
Oh, good lord!!!!
woah Don – ease up buddy.
DAMN. That was crazy.
Melville – yes. and the scenes b/t the Draper's are amazing.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH
What a hugely disturbing scene.
no penoir – there is a whole nother storyline with the clothers tonight
well looks like harry crane fell off the wagon with trying to stop smoking
Smoking in the elevator?
And now into the race … Mr. Happy Birthday, Harry Crane.
No Ken – interesting…
It's astonishing the degree to which Don has become three- (or maybe even four-) dimensional since that very first episode. I was worried that he would stay too aloof, too "artsy noir." I am enormously pleased that he has not turned out that way.
Cooper is such an assassin.
Bert rocks!
Loving the irony of Don having proof of Betty's infidelity, and Betty having no proof of his (unless Suzanne comes by before the end of this episode).
Bert is brilliant in this episode.
joan!
Call Joan!
Helloooo, Joan!
JOAN.
She deserved the words, but no slaps.
"Let me make a phone call…"
JOANIE!
Oh come on, just call Joan, it's what everyone needs (and wants)
Oh no, the let's all wear plaid divorce talk.
Well, *that's* quite a bit different from Betty's bloodless departure in the first season. The explosive 60's are definitely creating a different tone to this series…
Bobby, I blame Jabba the Sofa.
Joanie to the rescue!
Waiter, an Emmy for Mr. Morse's table!
I definately want them to call Joan–right now.
"No. We both decided."
Now Betty is the Big Liar.
It was her damn idea, and then she's at a loss for words to explain the old "sometimes grownups can't get along?" I do admit that I dislike Betty more and more over time. Used to like her. And Sally is setting herself up to be a cliche defiant preteen who blames herself and makes this all about herself.
Kinda like Betty.
… it's thscary in there.
This is tough stuff.
@135 Melville – True, true… but it ain't no office without Joan, Peggy, and the steno/switchboard girls. Bring back Marge and Lois!
Anyone who has not been on the receiving end of this family conversation should not give opinions on this divorce. By the way, that is exactly the way it goes. Word for mother fucking word.
Betty's hair is the same color as the Breck girl's.
Don to Peggy: "You were right."
Wow.
….then Duck comes out of the bedroom…
Don is going to play every note that he can.
Don is confessing to PEGGY, who understands when no one else can. Minus details, but still …
Duck is indeed the Great Forgotten in all this… wonder when he resurfaces…
Actually, I can see how Betty credits (blames?) both of them for the idea – she was perfectly content to stay in a "happy" marriage, but it was Don who initiated the chain of events leading to divorce through his infidelities and lies. He's definitely responsible.
Damn this episode rocks!
@180 but Betty has shown little signs of wanting to toy around since Season One…
I still can't get over this: "You're a whore."
That Don and Peggy scene….. *struggles for words and fails*
My mind is being blown every minute this week!
Oh, Peggy. Oh, Don. This can work out, when nothing else can. He's willing to do what he has to, to win her.
If Peggy goes with Don, he won't have to be alone. That's pretty deep coming from Don.
I've been crying for 20 minutes now…….very touching episode.
What about Sal? Don't they still need an art director on the team?
@183 yeah, that was rather brutal. And if he genuinely thinks that, then I guarantee you he's mostly mad at himself for not acknowledging it sooner.
YES!! JOAN is back! See can probably explain everything to them lol
YEA!!! Joanie's back!!!
JOAN!!!!!!
*does the happy dance*
**HOOOORAY!!!!** Peggy and Joan!
(… Marge and Lois?)
"Oh, look, it's the entire principle cast. What a surprise!"
Joanie!
Screw Pete, make Joanie a partner.
I think in Don's mind he set up Betty as madonna which is why he always cheated with brunettes, so yes to him she is a whore now.
Clearasil – nice job Pete.
Don: "Joan. What a good idea."
That scene at at the Art Department is the equivalent of Indiana Jones just shooting the guy with the enormous sword…
The painting. The rifle.
Oh my god, could this be any better.
Honestly, this entire principle cast could set up camp in a tent city and it would be fascinating.
Peggy has been utterly ungrateful to Don given where she would be without him. Sorry, but it's true. He's been tough, too, no doubt, and shouldn't have just assumed she would come along. But frankly it was a reasonable assumption. If Peggy really wants to go face her fate in the machine rather that stick where she knows her talent is recognized, then that is what she should do. She'd be insane and we all know it, but hey… I guess she just needed some more stroking. That goes for Pete as well, though he to his credit came along a hell of a lot easier.
calling set design!
The music in these scenes is fantastic…upbeat and a little mischievous.
Taking the booze!
St. John – "kiss my ass!"
Don in a plaid sportcoat
Very Well. Happy Christmas!
I'm even liking Lane this episode.
Wow, a few more chandeliers, but almost a tent city…
The structure of the storytelling in this episode is pretty standard-issue, but it's well-told.
Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Pryce
They can hire Sal if they lose Lucky Strikes.
Poor Allison. At least she's got Kenny.
Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce!
Gotta get Sal back now…..
all they need is Sal at this point. i hope they call him….
ROY!
Goodbye, Betty!
Betty & Don are DONE! I do think when season 4 starts up she'll be married to Henry, but Sally will be hell on wheels!
HOW IS THAT DOG STILL ALIVE?!
She's going to leave the kids with Carla for six weeks?
Mmmmm. Ovaltine.
Huh? Betty left Sally & Bobby with Carla for 6 weeks?
WOW. That was amazing. I'm astonished… Good work Matthew Weiner!
Absolute perfection.
Quite possibly the best season of any TV show ever.
WAIT, they owe us another four minutes!!!!
Something about that scene, watching everybody bustling about over food, looks like Don is spending Christmas with his true 'family.'
Does Carla not wonder why Betty and baby Gene are gone but not Sally and Bobby?
CRAP – only 54 minutes.
DAMN, THAT WAS GOOD!
David Carbonara does such an amazing job with the music on this show.
I hope they bring back Fred Rumsen.
i just looked up for the commercial advertising AMC, when did it say that season 4 was starting?
Carla knows what's goin' on.
Here's Michael Gladis at the party.
Oops, Roger just opened up a can…..
Betty finally getting what she deserves, IMO.
YAY!!! Joanie!!!
OK, how much was the “Joan” pool up to by now?
I adored the energy of the ending and I could feel Don's hope and eagerness for another new beginning as he looked at his new agency. His name is on the door. Goodness, didn't it feel like a start up! And Joanie saved the day – too delicious. Betty is already regretting what she's done. She's being the spiteful little girl and letting a new Daddy take her away. SIX WEEKS away from Sally and Bobby? I assume Sal will be back next year in the art department – they don't have that area covered yet.
I loved the finale. Every bit. Bravo!
Other than Don calling Bets a whore … most memorable moment … Burt Cooper rescuing the Mark Rothko … now worth about a $ 100 million. I still think Don and Peggy will make it to the sack … guess we will have to wait til summertime. Later.
I can't be the only person who couldn't get through to the site forever!
Awesome episode — so many thoughts.
Tried to get thru last night as soon as the ep ended…gah! Must have been overloaded – a true testament to the popularity of this site.
Great episode, and it's always the little things about this show that I love. For instance: when Roger and Don were at Pete's apartment and Pete was playing it too hard at first, Trudy asking him to come in the bedroom for a sec…and he then began to change his tone and be more responsive. Soooo glad Joan is back! But due to the Lucky Strike acct….it probably makes it even more impossible to bring back Sal
I loved the way Trudy did that and how transparent it was to all three of them.
Yeah, site seemed nonfunctional all night, but appears to be back now. I actually stayed up and watched the 1am rereun after "Breaking Bad" on the East Coast, even after DVRing the first run. I am fairly sure I missed some important details and need to go back and re-watch some stuff from recent weeks. That horseshoe plaque has got me freaked out.
Yes! When they told her goodbye as they left and she wasn't even in the room, haha.
Also, the look on Don's face as Trudy brought in the food to the hotel room….then he went in and called Betty and told him he wouldn't fight her on this. I can't help but feel sad for Don, even though I probably shouldn't. At least he came out of the room with a smile on his face, seeing his new team!
I knew it was going to be a blockbuster and I would be too pumped up to sleep, because I have a big meeting this morning. So I taped it, got up at 5:15am to watch, and now the adrenaline is flowing. What a great episode…and no wild strings hanging to keep us suffering for 9 1/2 months. Now I am *up* for the day!
Great to see them all back, my heart leapt to see Mrs. Harris walk in and take over; loved the scene in the hotel room when Joan had the pen necklace dangling around her neck (too bad about Sal, but clearly American Tobacco is the lifeblood of SCDP for the time being, so Sal has little chance of coming back).
So much has happened. .
Paul checks Peggy's office… Only to see that it's been cleaned out !
Damn, left behind! Not allowed to play in the Don Draper start up company game.
What a great episode!
One theme that stood out to me was the death of the father.
We see Archibald Whitman getting killed by his horse (we already knew that, although I wasn't sure if this was the truth or just another one of Don's lies) and young Dick witnessing it (we didn't knew that).
We also see Conrad Hilton dying as a father figure to Don.
Later in the episode, Don and Betty tell the kids about the divorce. What does this mean in this context, will Don die as father to Sally, Bobby and Eugene? I really hope not and I don't think so.
Let's look at the editing choices: the first part of the Dick flashback came up right after Don came back from his meeting with Connie. The second part was intercut in a scene where Don was looking at Sally sleeping.
I hope this means Don is well aware of the risk of losing his children and will have the will and energy to be there for them. At the end of the episode it seemed as if he realized that the folks at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce were his family and I guess that in the next season(s) he might start a new one with another woman – but giving up on the three children he already has would be a worse mistake in my opinion than anything we have seen him done so far.
YOWEE! I'm still at a lost for words. It was the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BoK – you're back up and running! I was worried about you last night. I had a bit of time to think about the season finale (first viewing, though) and realized that another heavy emotion-laden episode after last week would've been overkill. The fast pace of last night, reinventing the show and some of the characters after the penultimate devastation seemed so right.
I wonder what will be the time jump to Season 4? Over 1964 into 1965?
So, Don Draper is finally free – there's no one in his life that he has to worry about finding out his secret. MW said long ago he was intrigued more by what living that kind of double life does to a man, rather than focusing on the "will they or won't they find out" and he has completely upset Don's personal apple cart in three seasons. We now have a Don Draper who is just as talented, just as personally charismatic, but far more open and honest.
Wouldn't it be interesting for MM to explore Don having a real relationship? Not an affair with a "not-Betty" or something self-destructive like the affairs with Bobbie and Suzanne, but someone he could actually relate to honestly?
Hmm, I wonder how Mr. Tilden Katz's health is these days?
Don's reinventing himself again, sans Betty.
Thank you Matthew Weiner and co. for giving us such a great season finale, filled with promise and new beginnings.
Dyn O Mite! Some epiphanies (or proof of previous), and new speculations:
Peggy loves Don Draper
Is Peggy pregnant again?
Pete and Trudy grow up in 12 / 13
Where is Don heading with his bags?
Sign up or die. How many retirees live 3 years past their retirement?
We started GSD&M predecessor in a spare room of Roy Spence's apartment just off the UT Campus. 6 brains, a phone and nothing can make a company.
Peggy and Don may be the only two that realized almost immediately what the echoing last shot on November 22 meant, to everything.
MM would be good TV, if it were only fictional. The fact that it is historical, cultural and personal (for many of us) makes it something quite new.
The trick here is NOT to simply 'can't wait for July', but to do what BoK always does: Continue with the 'Persistence of Vision' with the various elements of the stories to keep plugging with the characters living on in the world outside of the broadcast episodes – a la Pirandello.
December 13, 1963: three days earlier Walter Cronkite runs a story on Beatlemania in the UK. On 12/17/63 "I Want to Hold Your Hand" is the first Beatles song played on a radio station in the US. By January 1964 it is the number one song on Billboard. You know the rest …
Who thinks Lane Pryce has access to British Invasion promoters? Business that Pete Campbell can work because he's "been ahead on a lot of things"? Harry Crane … Ed Sullivan … hmmmmmmm
The true meaning of the word "whore". I winced so hard I almost went blind…or squinted and saw it very clearly. Betty's so confused it hurts. And life hurts enough even when you think you have a handle. Even though life in the 50s/60s was repressed, this show makes it clear that most people can find a way to be honest with one another while concealing socially unwelcome expressions. Betty's the least honest person on the show and yet, it's hard to say that she's getting just desserts. Her class affliction and hardnosed old man, makes her coldness pitiable, but I doubt that checking her Ivy League privates with a mirror over the next bumpy feminist era is going to help much. This girl's gotta go a lot deeper and get burned a few more times. And yes, I know that Don's behavior is hurtful, but he was not trying to hurt Betty. Great parallel scene with Peggy (apology and proposal) wherein she lets her guard down. Take a lesson, poor Betts.
Forgot. Ugh, Betty doesn't even pay real attention to those kids; but somewhere in the "lizard brain" we all have, she knows that it's best (really?) for the mother to have the children. But the new "daddy" is the real prize as she reminds the new provider of her baggage. Again, nothing more awful than social conditioning but she's really hard to like.
@249 – It's my wish that Don doesn't just fade away from his kids lives after the divorce from Betty. He loves and adores his children and I believe that he needs them in his life as much as they need him (and Betty) in theirs. They way that Bobby held onto Don just got me.
Poor Sally.
The generational shift has developed between her and her parents.
Okay I'm going to mention this because I've done a search on the page and no one seems to have mentioned it but… DID you notice the chip and dip!? It was totally there in the scene at Pete and Trudie's apartment! She was setting it out with the chips and the dip!!! CHIP AND DIP!!!!
Okay… sorry about that I just had to get that out of my system…
I cried so hard when Bobby wrapped himself around Don that I had to get up and get tissues two separate times. OH, that scene hurt my heart and made me hate Don and Betty so much.
Just a thought. Going to Reno for six weeks is a long time to spend with someone you don't know, assuming Henry stays out there. Will Betty realize what she is doing, change her mind and come home. By that time will Don be back with Suzanne?
What a fantastic episode — the third week in a row where this show has made me cry and I've declared it the "best episode ever!" I loved how it alternated between intensely emotional and almost comical. The music in the scenes where they were plotting and scheming reminded me of the music from the movie "Barefoot in the Park" — breezy, whimsical, so '60s! The song over the last scene and end credits was quite apropos as well — does anyone know what it was?
I thought some of the best dialogue of the series happened tonight, especially from Roger and Peggy. When Pete was trying to play it cool with Don and Roger, then Trudy called from the bedroom, "Peter, may I see you for a moment?", I just about died. And Paul's, "Dammit!", his one line of the night, was delivered perfectly.
God I love this show! I can't believe we have to wait almost a whole year to see what happens next!
@ #260 — I definitely noticed the Chip & Dip!
I have to mentally steel myself against caring too much about these fictional characters! I cried for Bobby, Sally, Betty and Don. The plane scene felt so wrong it was heartbreaking. Thankful for the Great Sterling Cooper Heist in all its fizzy fun!! Thank you Lipp Sisters et al for another season of Mad Men obsession!
Also, I think SCDP will eventually bring over Paul and maybe even Ken, but the new partners didn't want more people than necessary to know before everything actually happened. Paul and Ken are both probably working without contracts, because Peggy and Pete weren't. They do still need an art department, and we know Sal is out of the question right now because Lucky Strike is still a client.
So much to think about before next season!
How did I miss the chip & dip of the "we got two" fame.
The final episode was a stunner — I guess my favorite moment was the return of Joan — I sort of knew everything would be all right when Roger went to call her. I am still trying to absorb everything that happened — I am hoping we will have a season three marathon soon.
Betty seems foolish to have dumped Don and her marriage for someone she hardly knows, but she obviously wants a man to take care of her — standing on her own two feet isn't her style. I can't wait to see what happens with her in season four.
Starting up the new agency is a brilliant way to end the season.
I've loved reading all the articles and comments on this site — on to the adventure of the next season.
I know I'm in the minority, but I just feel a profound sense of sadness about the finale and disappointment that we took such a circuitous route of getting Sterling/Cooper with Draper on the sign, and Don/Betty blown to smithereens. While Don gained the family he truly loves and wants to commit to – Bert, Roger, Peggy, Joan, Lane, Pete and Harry, with barely a whimper (despite the blow to his ego) he cast off the family he never ever was able to allow himself to love or be a part of. They never had a chance.
I too was rooting for the rag tag, can-do kids pulling for them to pull one over on those tea drinking, mustache twirling Brits. More Roger levity is a really good thing. Thrilled we'll have Yoda Bert around as the "super ego" helming the SCDP brain. Glad Pryce will stick around as well. I have absolute confidence that despite some trying times and difficult clients, with Joanie at the organizational helm, they'll be a great success. But I took Paul's "damn" as a sign that there's no room in the new clique for him, Ken, Allison, Smitty, Kurt or Sal. Where to they end up? Off screen surely.
But my biggest gripe isn't the end of the Draper marriage, which I think deep down we knew since the first episode was ultimately doomed, but how it came about. He tried to leave her in the first season then had a change of heart. She kicked him out in the second season, and I would have much rather it ended there. Her realizing life wasn't much different without him moving forward learning about herself and growing up. The baby was just a plot device for misery.
There was so much treading water in that marriage, which we knew wasn't remotely fixed as soon as Don was sleeping with the stewardess in S3E1. Not even the reveal to Betty of Don's identity and truth of his past could set a new course for them. But what was the purpose? Why does it matter that Betty knows? I'm really not sure she wouldn't have come to the same conclusion of leaving regardless. And Henry? Terribly disappointing that she's moving forward to such a chemistry-challenged, story challenged relationship thus proving that Betty is choosing to regress to the house cat her Father called her. She's not a woman of the future no matter how much contemporary reading she does or her degree. I hate being so wrong about a character and now feel nothing but pity for her. Don't see any role for Betty in season 4 that I'd want to watch. Other than occasional child pass off, which is a waste of JJ's talents, what does Betty offer as commentary to the 60's? That woman will just stand by her new husband-daddy, hang out at the country club drinking martinis and playing bridge. She'll die in her sweater set and pearls not understanding why her kids don't come to visit or what they've become. Betty's not the woman I thought she was or hoped she'd become.
Oh BoK you were lost last night, but now you are found! Watched both back to back and then when I came to see everyone…I couldn't get on! Talk about frustrated. But now here you are. (Breathes sigh of relief.)
Thank you, thank you! I wanna kiss your Lipps! You have made this show even better for me due to this site. I'm asking Santa for Season 1 and 2, and that's how I'll make it through until Season 4. Watching and then going back and reading the comments on the appropriate episodes. It's the only thing that will get me through.
Thank you, MW and co… I know 20 years from now, when my kids are asking about "did you watch that show mama?" (because it WILL go down in history) I will be so proud to tout myself as an avid viewer. (And then I'll whip out my BoK book…as a companion to the 10 set DVD series….think about it ladies, we can't have one without the other. I'm just sayin'.)
Finally, the finale! It was everything I hoped for and so much more. I love Don again! "Joan…what a good idea."- That's MY t-shirt! When he asked Peggy to help him and said he'd spend the rest of his life trying to hire her? My tears mirrored Pegs! (BTW…Elizabeth Moss, your acting hurts my heart it's soooo good.) And when she took up for herself to Don, then later that simple "no," to Roger's coffee request? All awesome and completely perfect. And Roger… his "I'm sorrys" to Don at the bar were so sincere. I'm so glad he told Don about Henry Francis. I also loved his expressions while they presented their case to Pete! He admired Pete for asking for partnership and his stating there couldn't be conditions! And I loved Don for stating Pete's forward thinking. I swear, it's like that line was stolen off this site! How many of us Basketcases have said those same words about the aerospace, the teenagers, and the Admiral Negro market, regarding Pete? Finally, Joanie. When Roger said he'd make a phone call…I actually stood up, shook my fists up in the air and screamed, "It's Joan, it's Joan, it's Joan." Really. The way she came in and took control? Her complete comfortableness with Roger, the way she organized that hotel room, into an office, and laid those ground rules? She loves SCD&P! She wants them to succeed! Gawd…I love this show! I know I'm rambling but I'm so excited about what's to come! It's soo delicious. Every bit. Thank you all for making it all so tasty!
Loved the final espisode. Sad, telling Bobby and Sally that their parent's are splitting. However, for the first time in a while, there was a very upbeat vibe. Loved the way the management team rallied and got things into place. They put aside their differences and got pro active. Fun to see.
Wonderful moments between Don and Peggy. Glad Lane is finally rid of the Brits and after being treated like crap by PPL he finally had the last laugh. "Happy Christmas"
Also glad that Don and Betty are going to part ways. There was really no other choice.
Many people have written that Betty needs to grow up. I think the same is true of Don. He needs to start taking responsibilty for his actions and that started to show in his making ammends with Peggy and Pete. He also told Betty that he would allow the divorce to move forward. Also think that he will be a better father to his children. Despite his deprived upbringing, or may becasue of it, he is the more nurturing of the two parents.
Some notes made last night when BoK site was overwhelmed:
Beautiful composition and lighting (from 2 different angles) of the 4 principals sitting in Don's office plotting the details of their coup
The color red:
- Bert Cooper's red suspenders when Don goes to him after mtg with Connie
- Trudy's red dress when Roger and Don visit Pete in their apartment
- Harry's red scarf when he sees Pete in the elevator Sunday night
- Betty's red nails as she covered her face while "telling the kids" in their red living room; have we ever seen Betty wear red nail polish before?
- Peggy's red blouse when Don visits her apartment & then she accompanies him to the secret weekend meeting
- Joan's head scarf appears to have a lot of red in the pattern
- Lane's red plaid scarf when St. John sacks him on the phone Monday morning & then he goes to the new world headquarters of SCDP
- Trudy's red ensemble when she delivers lunch to Room 435 at the Pierre
- Betty wearing red on the airplane sitting next to Henry
@#255
http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Retirement/5-10-21R…
#257 – I know Don's words to Betty were pretty harsh, but he'd had a lot to drink (again)…and the comment that she was 'so good' and everyone else was 'so bad' was quite truthful, in my opinion – she puts herself on a pedestal and looks down at everyone else…
I also don't think Henry will stay in Reno w/her…he had expressed he didn't want scandal, so my guess is he was going to 'set her up' for six weeks and head back home – after all, he'll need to keep his job if he's going to keep her in diamonds and furs…ha.
@#263 The final song was "Roy Orbison – Shahdaroba". Here's the lyrics
Where the Nile flows
And the moon glows
On the silent sand
Of an ancient land
When a dream dies
And the heart cries
Shahadaroba
Is the word they whisper low
Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
Means the future
Is much better than the past
Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
In the future
You will find a love that lasts
So when tears flow
And you don't know
What on earth to do
And your world is blue
When your dream dies
And your heart cries
Shahadaroba
Fate knows what's best for you
Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
Face the future
And forget about the past
Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
In the future
You will find a love that lasts
Shahadaroba
I think the perfect ending song and words, kind of foretelling of good things to come. Hopefully…..
Betty seems foolish to have dumped Don and her marriage for someone she hardly knows, but she obviously wants a man to take care of her — standing on her own two feet isn’t her style. I can’t wait to see what happens with her in season four.
Am I the only one that caught this? Roger: "Jumping from one John's bed to anothers." Of course, Roger's talking about the PPL sale. But I attributed it to Betty as well.
As much as I loved last night's episode, I feel a little annoyed this morning — why bring the Brits on if you're just going to call "do-over?" This is exactly what Lost did with the Tailies, brought them on and then killed them all off. The whole season was just a tease! Mad Man is much better than Lost, but still.
I haven't read anyone else's posts of the final ep yet, so I am just jumping in here…The final ep seemed inevitable (in retrospect…I did not predict) because it was just so profoundly American…this is ultimately a show about American business and ingenuity so, of course, they were action heroes. And also, it was sentimental in just the right way. That last shot had the feel of a great happy camp reunion, which was a love letter to the show. Oh, and best moment: at 10:40, I (and, I would imagine, everyone else did, too) happily exclaimed to the TV: "JOANIE!!!"
The "whore" speech was the chip on Don's shoulder talking. He has no idea whatsoever whether class came between him and Betty because he was never, ever honest with her about their class difference. "You treated me badly because I was X" doesn't fly if the other person never knew you were X to begin with.
If Betty HADN'T been floudering after finding out that she'd been living a lie for the past ten years without knowing it, she wouldn;t be human.
@269 – Betty’s red nails as she covered her face while “telling the kids†in their red living room; have we ever seen Betty wear red nail polish before?
Great catch.
I don't think that Betty's ever been seen without the pearly pink nail polish. The color red definitely represented change for the characters (in their personal and/or professional lives) in last night episode.
@279 – Btw, I also think Pete and Peggy are “done†as a romance. Their interactions, with the past they share, are more interesting because of that past but Peggy has moved on and Pete and Trudy are working as a couple for now, in spite of Pete.
I keep on agreeing with most of your opinion on last night's episode, Esme. I, for one hope that Weiner and company don't revisit the Pete/Peggy situation from season 1. They've grown and moved on from their desire of the other.
I don't think that Peggy would have the patience to deal, prod and at times placate him in the way that Trudie does. Peter needs that in order to function and Trudie handles that role perfectly.
Young Dick was in tears over his father's death. I hadn't expected that. I guess that Dick/Don longed for a father so badly, he was capable of mourning the loss of that brute. Sad, but it does imply that at least Archie didn't manage to crush all the humanity out of his son.
@188 – I too wish Sal had a place at SCDP, but with American Tobacco as its biggest client there will sadly be no place for Sal – unless Lee has a change of heart…
Do any of really know what Betty wants? I wonder. Right now, I believe that Betty is still too scared to consider a life independent of men, or have a man in her life and at the same time, create her own lifestyle. On the other hand, Joan has expressed a desire a life with kids and a husband in the suburbs since the series began. She wanted to be a pampered housewife who is adored by her husband. Instead, she ended up with Greg Harris and is now forced to become a career woman, again. Perhaps deep down, she has always wanted to remain a career woman. But Joan has always allowed society to dictate her wants, just as Betty has. But what will the future bring for Joan? Will she still desire the life that Betty had with Don? Or will she finally wise up and try to be her true self and realize that living the Suburban Dream is really not for her?
And what about Betty? To expect her to become the "liberated" woman after her breakup with Don seems unrealistic to me. Considering her background and non-conformist personality, I do not see that happening this soon in the series. After all, Season Three has just ended. Perhaps it will take the Women's Movement in the 1970s for Betty to become that woman. Perhaps she will end up as another Betty Ford, an activist who managed to have a lasting marriage with a Republican politician. Then again, I do not even know if Betty will ever become the type of "liberated" woman that many seem to demand that she become.
Also, I believe there is nothing wrong with wanting another man in one's life. Of all the divorced or separated female characters on the show, only one has not been seen without a new man in her life . . . and that is Helen Bishop. Mona Sterling had already found someone new by "Love Among the Ruins". Last season's "Maidenform" revealed that Duck Phillips' ex-wife was about to remarry. That Betty would hook up with Henry Francis does not seem all that surprising. The question remains on whether Henry will prove to be another Don Draper who ends up treating her as a trophy wife. Some fans seem to assume that will happen. Frankly, I have no idea. In some ways, Henry seems like Don. In other ways, he seems different from Don. In the end, I think only Matt Weiner knows how this relationship will turn out.
I am disappointed by two things – namely Peggy and Pete's decisions to remain working with Don. It seems like a replay of their continuing desire to win his approval and respect. I wish someone would tell them that they do not need Don to be better people or better ad men. If they ever realize this, I hope the lesson will not be as harsh as it was for Betty.
I couldn’t have asked for anything more from this finale. I was on the edge of my seat, cheering and oohhh-ing out loud to an empty living room. …hoping that Peggy doesn’t “Duck-up†the new agency plans, cheering for Joanie when Roger said he had to make a call, anxiously watching the Don and Betty conversation with the kids, having recently had one with my own, watching Don keep getting up to the plate after getting brushed back – by Connie, by Bert (I don’t think you have the stomach for this), by Roger, by Peggy.. he kept swinging…
My heart melted when Don climbed into bed with Sally. He’s the heart of that family.
Did anyone think of Henry Mancini when the music played out of the scene with Pete and Trudy setting off on the account gathering mission? Made me smile.
Did Gladis get a big group hug at the party when Paul realizes the train left the station without him?
Thank you Mad Men and BoK for a great season!
Quickly responding to #90…I was wondering about Henry's finances, too, until Roger revealed that he knew about the affair through Henry's daughter, who is friends w/Roger's daughter. That means they travel in the same social circles…so Henry must have $$$$$$$$$$$. Plus, that trip to Reno must have cost a pretty penny and he obviously is footing the bill.
On another note: cannot stand those kids being left alone for 6 weeks. Hope Don visits early and often. But he'll be so busy w/his new firm…very very sad.
Just before Don kicks in the door was there a fanciful "F" in front of the word "Art" on the Art Department door, thus making it the Fart Department?
btw, Karl, you broke the internet last night, huh?
for future reference: if there is no preview for an episode, must upgrade server volume.
After falling asleep and waking up numerous times, I finally had to post something over at Seppinwall just to get it out of my system.
I am worthless for work today but oh well.
What a GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT season finale. All the pain of the season made the payoff from this episode that much sweeter.
I'm looking forward to S4 with more emphasis on the office. I don't think Betty is gone by any means, but I think this season was "hers" and next season will move on to spend more time on cultural changes that are reflected in Pete and Peggy. Btw, I also think Pete and Peggy are "done" as a romance. Their interactions, with the past they share, are more interesting because of that past but Peggy has moved on and Pete and Trudy are working as a couple for now, in spite of Pete.
I loved Peggy's reaction to Trudy.
The Orbison song was so perfect. The melodrama of the lush orchestral arrangement, Orbison's tenor that aches with beauty and loss and sadness.
The shot of Betty on the plane was stunning. She's a lost soul.
Wow. I was clapping, crying, laughing throughout. Amazing. I definitely need my usual 2nd or 3rd watch- there was so much going on.
Lots of "knowing" or amused side-long glances between Bert, Roger and Don.
Don seemed reborn. The flashback with his father leaving the co-op and then Don pushing to leave the old SC behind was very interesting.
Loved the scene with Pete – he and Trudy are a team now – he confesses at the end that he's not really sick.
Don telling Betty off and being genuine with her for the 1st time. As soon as she found an escape route she ran away like a little girl.
Peggy's working girl apt., strewn with clothes that she doesn't bother to move when Don shows up; she even sits on a garment. Homemaking isn't her priority.
The first call to the new agency answered by Joan and it's bumbling Harry checking the room number. Loved it all!
I know I am in the minority here, but I liked Suzanne and Don together. I think it would be interesting to see more storyline with them – certainly Suzanne would blow Betty away in the mother dept. and provide some real kindness to the kids.
Stellar episode.
@ #272 — Thank you, Steillaaa!! Perfect lyrics. And I did not recognize that voice as Roy Orbison's! I'll have to rewatch tonight and listen again.
My wife’s theory is that Betty is a beard, and that Henry would rather really be with Sal.
That may be the most brilliant, and the most off-the-wall, suggestion I've heard. How frackin' perfect would that plot twist be? Out of the frying pan and into the fire for Betty if that's the case.
Stelllaaa! – you are so right about that interaction between Roger and Harry – poor Harry really is clueless, huh?
Before I make some quick notes, I have to say:
LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT, LOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I did see the chip and dip! lol!
Did you notice that the door to the art department had a fancy scroll 'f' nailed on in front of the word 'art' — essentially reading 'Fart Department'! Usually I find fart jokes clumsy and cliche, but in this case, I could really see the artists doing something like that, and it seemed so real, I laughed out loud!
First Don had to sit down with Connie
Then Bert had to sit down with Don
Roger had to sit down with Don and Bert
Archie had to sit down with the Farm Cooperative
Lane had to sit down with Don, Roger and Bert
Pete had to sit down with Don and Roger
Peggy had to sit down with Don (Great Scene!)
Bobby and Sally had to sit down with Mommy and Daddy — This scene broke my heart
Harry sits down with Bert and Roger et al
Don looks out (and I'm sure eventually sits down) with his new crew of Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
Wow.
Now I have to sit down!
@268,JoanvsJane – so glad you brought up Peggy's understated, perfectly delivered but absolutely fabulous "no" to Roger's request for coffee. That said it all: where the show and Peggy are going. Brava, Peggy (and MW)!!!
Wow. Such great comments, and I'm sure many more to come. My initial impressions:
I don't know if it was the lighting or her newfound confidence or what, but Peggy looked entirely mature and gorgeous during the apology scene in her apartment. And her firm "No" to Roger's coffee request had me pumping my fist and shouting "Yes!" I love new-and-improved Peggy Olsen. Maybe Duck really has been good for her.
How awesome was the triumphant return of Joan if-Greg-can-get-an-exciting-new-job-so-can-I Harris? I think that she and Lane (who, by the by, was also wonderful in his quiet rebellion) are going to make a fantastic managerial team.
Pete and Trudy have one of the best marriages I've seen on TV. It's become a true partnership based on trust built over the past three years, and they complement each other so well. And yet they're still young and giddy enough to be completely adorable dancing the Charleston or smooching over new opportunities. I'm so proud of those two.
Loved the juxtaposition of the serious tone of the Drapers' crumbling marriage with the heist/caper tone for the creation of the new firm. As one family falls apart, another comes together.
Is Carla seriously going to stay at the house with the kids for a month and a half?! Really? Over Christmas?! I hope they pay her extremely well, because she's given up a hell of a lot for that family over the past couple of years. Hopefully some of the neighbors will pitch in a bit so she can spend time with her own family. Or Don will stay at the house while he's apartment hunting so she can at least go home at night. Or, hell, maybe William will take them to Philly for the holidays. Poor abandoned little things.
I'm glad that there are only minor cliffhangers to be had this year. All in all, I found this episode immensely satisfying. It'll tide me over for quite a while. Three cheers for vicarious endorphins!
Where is Don? Why isn't he taking care of the kids, while Betty is getting her divorce in Reno?
Isn't it funny that we're so conditioned by typical (crappy) network fare, that if we hear that something 'shocking' will happen in a season finale, we automatically assume that it may be some sort of death, be it suicide, murder or heart attack? We all feared the worst for these characters we care about, but the death here wasn't physical, it was psychological. The Draper marriage is dead, the original blueprint of Sterling Cooper is dead, but the characters have survived, and this portrayal is real and a hell of a lot more exciting than the typical 'shocking' garbage that most network 'dramas' put out. This show is about death and rebirth, and that is what life is about after all.
I'm a little shocked, but I am thoroughly delighted! I hope season 4 picks up right where we left off! Congrats to Matt and Co!
# 282 – Don shut the door, then had to sit down with Betty (and, of course, the kids had to go upstairs) I was keeping track, too.
Will the F art department please get on the Sterling, Cooper, Draper & Pryce logo so we can get it on a t-shirt pronto? I need one for a Christmas gift.
I don’t know if it was the lighting or her newfound confidence or what, but Peggy looked entirely mature and gorgeous during the apology scene in her apartment.
She had her bangs swept to the side. It really made a huge difference – she didn't even look like Peggy to me.
Thinking back, isn't it interesting to think about the conversation in the Derby Day episode about Happy Rockefeller marrying Nelson only one month after her divorce and "she's got four kids…" muses Betty… and Henry works for Rockefeller…
In Betty's mind, I think she started building her what-if? life raft right there, watching and exploring her options with a man who clearly wanted her, and with whom she might be able to engineer a break from Don that would take care of her children as well as her reputation.
She saw with Happy and Nelson, that it could be done in high society, and successfully. Possibly she figured that Henry, being close to Rockefeller, would figure out how to make it happen for the two of them.
Whomever said, upthread (maybe many!) that Betty doesn't know Henry any better than she knew Don when she married hime is absolutely correct. I see Betty with different eyes after last night. She connives and schemes to get what she wants — that gilded castle in the air where she is princess over all she surveys — and that's what she knows how to do.
She's not being a bad person, per se. Her behaviors reflect who she is, and what she knows, and she will keep marching forward. But things are not going to change for her. Not unless she changes. Fat chance. Le sigh.
After two seasons of lurking, I finally have to post. I haven't been able to get this episode off my mind.
Betty: I watched with my wife, and we found ourselves on opposite sides of the Betty camp. Watching how she ends the marraige, it made me wonder if Betty is not mad at Don because of the affairs that she still doesn't know for sure whether he had, but because she discovered that he was white trash. The notion that she ended up married "beneath her" seems to have upended her sensibilities more than anything else. And Don was right… once she discovered who he really was, she couldn't love him anymore.
Don: I was as rattled as everyone when he called Betty a whore, but then I realized how it ties into the episode. Don may be referring to whore as prostitute, but it seems more about how she's selling herself to the highest socio-economic bidder. Unlike Connie, she can't rely on herself and do it alone. Don got the message from Connie, and he's realizing that, when being direct and honest, that he can. He was straight with Bert, Roger, Lane, Pete and Peggy, and how he's building what he wants the way he wants it.
Henry: Betty has no clue who he really is. She barely knows him, just as she barely knew Don when they married, and she's making the very same mistakes all over again. Has anyone wondered whether Henry is going to be part of Rockefeller's 1964 Presidential campaign? He may be more absent from her actual life than Don ever was, and she'll be even more alone and isolated than ever before, but with two emotionally rattled children. My wife's theory is that Betty is a beard, and that Henry would rather really be with Sal. Who knows?
Pete: So happy to watch Pete finally grow up. He's finally leveraging what he can leverage, not trying to do what he can't, and he's "thinking things through." A valued Pete is a happy Pete.
Peggy: My favorite character on the show has yet another moment for me to love. Don's apology and pursuit of her, and the acknowledgement of her sheer talent, just made me smile. Watching Peggy standing up for herself, both in Don's office and her apartment, was my favorite part of the episode.
Well done, Mr. Weiner and company. Again.
What a fantastic end of the season. Thrilled that Joan was back and on top of her game. Worried about Sal. If they can only take Lucky strike so that Lee will feel special, they can not afford to stand up to him about hiring Sal. And the kids, 6 weeks with out any parents. Don should at least go back home until Betty returns. Someone should care about them. And a small note on what bothers me. Eugene never needs to eat or have a diaper change. He cries, gets picked up and stops crying. Not in my lifetime. I hate that we have to wait so long for the new season.
But Happy's children stayed with her husband when she married Rockefeller. We'll see Betty next season as the children are handed over before & after Don's visitations. Just not so much as this season–I hope.
Will Henry make her happy? Or might she begin taking a bit of responsibility for her own happiness?
I have come to really like Roger Sterling this year. At first he seemed like an elite entitled rich guy that didn't really work that much, just enjoyed his position that was handed to him. But especially in the latter part of this season he has become much more interesting and witty, he always gets the best one liners. My favorite of his last night?
Harry: Are you kidding me?
Roger: Yes. Yes, we are. Happy birthday.
Delivered dead pan without even looking up and never missing a beat. Ha! I also love his new, respectful interactions with Joan. Is she perfect or what?
I'm just so damn happy with this entire season and particularly these last 3 episodes. Last night was dessert for us to get us through the long months until next summer. I too want the previous seasons DVD's for a gift. I'll wear them out buy next August. Le sigh….
Betty literally can't take care of herself; she needs alimony, and if Henry wants her to refuse it, he has to pony up. It is by no means Betty's fault: Daycare such as we have today was not available then. Full-time nannies are for the rich, and Betty isn't capable of earning enough to finance that. She literally has no options in the world of 1963; there is nothing available for an infant that would allow her to work.
Our entire viewing party cheered and applauded and there was some standing ovation action as well.
@ DRush – for me, the beauty is that I no longer care what Betty wants, or why she can't seem to grow the eff up, or stand on her own two feet, or what's going to happen to her. I'm done caring about her.
I imagine Don, after finding out Bets is off in Vegas for 6 weeks with Henry & Gene, will move back home with Sally & Bobby in the interim. I don't think we'll see that though. Maybe we'll just hear an allusion to it in the next season, at most. I know you don't like Don, but he loves his kids. He'll do his best to do right by them.
She’s not being a bad person, per se. Her behaviors reflect who she is, and what she knows, and she will keep marching forward. But things are not going to change for her. Not unless she changes. Fat chance. Le sigh.
You can be aquainted with someone for years before you marry him or her. But you will never know that person until after wedding. This is the case with most marriages. To expect Betty to know Henry before marrying him, seems unrealistic to me.
Then again, does everyone demand that Betty either remain with Don or become some icon of the emancipated woman so soon after her divorce? Mona Sterling and Duck Phillips' ex-wife become involved with other men after their divorces. I haven't heard any complaints about them.
I know you don’t like Don, but he loves his kids. He’ll do his best to do right by them.
Sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't.
and if Henry wants her to refuse it, he has to pony up.
I think she'll live to regret allowing Henry to make that decision for her. I actually kinda hope so.
What I'm saying is that it's indicative of the times and who Betty is, as well as her social station, to become involved with the next man who can take care of her, whether she knows him well or not — she did this with Don as well.
Her face on the airplane — such a mask of "this is what I'm doing now," without a trace of real emotion. Just soldiering forward. She doesn't have the sense of herself that Mona does, but she hasn't lived as long, either. And she is isolated, an orphan now as well. She needs a daddy and a hu$band.
Welcome back, Deborah!
Mona Sterling and Duck Phillips' ex-wife became involved with other men after their divorces.
APPLAUSE APPLAUSE APPLAUSE !!!! I don't know where to begin. MARVELOUS.!!!!
Go TEAM Sterling Cooper Draper & Pryce – everyone is fired up awesome.
TEAM CAMPBELL!!!!
Betty Francis can suck it!!!! You have every right (if you only knew) but it's a bad play.
Am I the only one here who believes Don and Peggy will become lovers in S#4? Sheesh!
While I would never want to know Betty irl, I think she's interesting and useful as a character.
The truth of the Draper divorce is that neither is innocent.
Here's what Betty went through this year:
She found out she was pregnant after she found out Don was having an affair with a woman who had the gall to be married to a jerk who wanted to cause Betty as much pain as he felt… while he, of course, was probably hoping for some revenge sex on her part.
She found out her father was incompetent after living her life as daddy's little girl. Not saying that was a good way to be, but that was who Betty was.
She found out she never knew her husband's real name. Or that he had family members who were alive during their marriage.
Her sense of identity… daddy's little girl, Mrs. Don Draper… were gone.
Then the president was assassinated.
Then the man who shot him was killed, live, on national tv. This was a stunning moment, a never-before seen moment on tv for the whole nation to experience without the filter of a newscaster telling everyone that the sun was still going to come up the next day.
(and she didn't know that her husband, who had apologized to her for disrespecting her, i.e. had an affair with someone who caused her embarrassment, was in love with her daughter's teacher… the one who came on to her husband when she was going into labor.)
Betty wanted Don to love her and he didn't. He loved what she appeared to be, he loved that she was a model who made him look good with clients. But he didn't respect her.
Maybe Betty is impossible to love. As she currently exists, but who can know that when the only glimpse we had of her in a situation in which she wants to live (the trip to Italy where she gets out of the suburbs) is brief and gone and only happened because Don's daddy sent him on a trip.
However, if Betty thinks that marrying Henry will get her out off the suburbs, well, maybe. Their break up, the things Don said to her… those were the words of someone who is hurt to the core and wants to hurt the other person.
He knows she didn't "build that raft" because he was poor. She built that raft while he was living on a desert island in Suzanne's apt. pretending to be at work, just like he lied about all the other affairs she knew about. Don was lashing out because she was taking away his family life… but as she said, she wasn't the one who brought others into the marriage until long after Don had done the same over and over – and, from her visit to the psych in season 1, we know she knew of affairs in the past, before the ones we saw.
What, oh what will Lane Pryce have to do to placate his wife once she realizes that they are 'not' going to be returning to jolly old England? She is going to be one unhappy lady. But he is certainly already relishing his new role in the new company with his name as a full partner. It's bloody exciting for him!
Interesting how much scorn Betty receives. To me, she is simply directionless. I can't see any way in hell that her relationship with Henry goes anywhere. She is running from everything but to nothing. It's difficult to blame her for that. She has serious deficits as a person, and she married someone with many of the same deficits. I actually think her story in S4 could be very interesting.
On the "Carla minding the kids for 6 weeks" thing, all the lawyer said was that she needed to "establish residence" for 6 weeks. I don't know any of the technicalities, but does that necessarily mean she can't leave the jurisdiction for 6 weeks? Maybe she's just flying to Reno for a few days to fill out whatever paperwork is needed and find someplace to call her residence, then go back home until the 6 weeks have past. After all, it's not like anyone would be able to monitor her whereabouts, is it?
Loved the caper/farce elements of the finale, in contrast to "The Grown Ups" which depressed me no end. The dialogue in the office scenes almost had a bit of the "His Girl Friday" staccato feel to it — loved that! Favorite moment was Peggy's blunt "no" to Sterling's coffee demand, and Slattery's priceless look of surprise when she delivered it.
Like Don's compliment to Pete, MW and crew did a great job of leaving the story in a forward-looking place. Will be fabulous to see how it plays out for those who seem to be moving on, but just as much for those who are (so far) being left behind — Paul, Ken, and most certainly Betty.
@260 YES! I DID notice the chip 'n' dip! (I love you guys; where else but on BoK would someone else notice that!) I just did a search for "chip" to see if anyone else had noticed that, and I had to respond to that before I re-lived that wonderful episode through the real-time BoK veil by reading this entire thread.
But first: I'm starting to like Trudy more and more. Did y'all notice how even Don was smiling when she arrived with lunch — and a cake! Yes, Trudy, it IS exciting to be starting a brand new agency.
Off to read all the posts now before I repeat what others may already have said.
Amazing finale, but Aran, I feel the same sense of disappointment about the Draper marriage.
I'm excited about the new SCDP possibilities. When Roger asked Don how long he thinks it'll take for them to get back to this [Sterling Cooper] and Don said "I never saw myself working at a place like this, my mind filled with possibilities for the future. Don's creative and now he gets to create something new. Love it.
As for Don and Betty's marriage, I'm not surprised that it ended, but didn't like the WAY it ended. Betty seemed to be going down a path of self discovery, then took a left turn at the end. It felt like JJ got written off to me.
“Joan. What a good idea.†is my new mantra.
A perfect ending to a brilliant season.
The “Let’s put on a show!†levity which marked the naissance of Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce after weeks of almost claustrophobic heaviness was most welcome, both to the viewer and no doubt the characters as well. They all seemed happier than they had in months. It was so important for everyone to feel the energy, excitement and hope of this new enterprise – and what a sweetly naive American notion that the missteps and disappointments of one’s personal life fade away if you just get to work and build something!
Elisabeth Moss was beyond sublime here. The scene between her and Don at her apartment was one of the best of the season.
While I was shocked at the rapidity with which the final plug was pulled on the Draper marriage, it made great sense. Don's lifetime of bad choices, emotional distance and failed father issues have come back to bite him, yet where he’s excelled in the past miraculously lies before him again, shiny and new. Betty, at her least sympathetic and as emotionally stunted as ever, leaves a failed white knight for a newer model she hardly knows. Betty finally taking steps towards independence with Henry Francis leading her by the hand like the child she is is both priceless and sad.
Over the course of this season I found myself rooting for Don and Betty to stay married, but now that it seems as if divorce is inevitable I am forced to ask myself why? There is nowhere else to go with these two as a married couple that hasn’t already been played out. Plus, at this point they’re both way too cognizant of one another’s faults to put a Band-Aid on the knife wound. What will Season 4 bring? Don finally has the total freedom he’s always craved – in all things. It will be most interesting to see what he’ll create for himself or whether he’s learned anything from his past mistakes. Can Betty’s starring role in “Lost in the Suburbs II: The Henry Francis Years†actually give her what she wants? Will she realize the fire is just as unsatisfying as the frying pan?
I agree with #310. Betty made a big strategic mistake when she opted to forego any effort to gain financial security from Don and tied herself financially to Henry. I can imagine a future turn of events in which Betty finds herself in financial distress and has to go to Don for money.
#318, thanks, I feel alone in my disappointment. But, I wouldn't be surprised if JJ got a Kater Gordon statement in a few weeks or months. Where else can they go with the Betty character having made this choice? I feel as if they used the Draper marriage/baby/Betty's growth as the loss leader for the show this season, and it turned into a dud.
No expectation that Betty would become the next Gloria Steinem or Betty Friedan, but Joan and Peggy have been written to show strength and growth with story moving in a positive direction, where Betty gets sent to the boring corner. That's not the woman who picked up a shot gun to send a message to the cruel neighbor, Betty's a woman who will be satisfied being the mannequin Don wanted with a man who won't cheat on her. They couldn't even write the story to have Betty actually falling in love, choosing that.
Makes you wonder if Henry isn't a coldly calculating bastard. Betty had a pretty good chance of being independently well-off, he pressured her out of it, and she, still caught up in her infantile rescue fantasy, bought it hook line and sinker. You blew it Bets. You are going to be just as dependent- more dependent really — on this man you hardly know than you were on Don. Good luck with that.
as someone else mentioned on this site some days ago, Henry will probably get caught in a political scandal.. there was mention of one on the radio. who is the basketcase who knows where this is within the eps?
betty, who hates scandal, will have fun on national tv defending Henry.
Sir Hillary, Betty needs to stay in Reno for all of those 6 weeks. Or maybe just Nevada. Housing, feeding & entertaining divorce seekers was a prime money maker for the state, for quite a few decades. http://www.jour.unr.edu/outpost/specials/wedding%…
Henry will probably return to New York after setting Betty up in Reno; he's got to work. So she will have nothing to do but warm up Gene's bottle & work on her tan for 6 weeks. Maybe she will think some of her famous "thoughts."
Fans of The Women know about Reno divorces. Oh, Arthur Miller wrote the story that led to the film The Misfits while awaiting his own divorce out there–so he could mary Marilyn. Their marriage was over when she made the movie–the last for her & Clark Gable & Montgomery Clift. Maybe Betty will begin rescuing wild horses from the Dogfood Cartels!
I'm also trying to deal with the end of the Draper marriage. But will S4 open with them working it out somehow, some way? I kind of hope not, although I'm mourning the divorce, because by then, I'll probably be very used the idea of them not being together anymore and wouldn't be able to stand any more surprises.
Did Roger say to Don (once Henry Francis came up) "I was going to tell you. No I wasn't." ?
It's greedy to ask more from an episode already packed with goodies, but don't you wish we could have seen Roger's phone call to Joan? Yes, it would have taken something away from the moment when she appears at SC, and it probably didn't take much convincing, but I wish we could have heard exactly what he said to get her back.
This is the first season that I could actually stand, and even kind of like, Betty. I liked the way they portrayed her somewhat growth as a women, whether it was her reading materials or her standing up to Don, after the Big Desk Discovery. That being said, however, I've felt like that growth halted abruptly this episode. When she and Henry sat with the attorney and Henry leaned forward to chastise the lawyer, did you see Betty's face? She was loving that he was rescuing her! And the whole bedroom scene: perfection. I felt like every word Don said was true. When he said, "you never forgave me." It wasn't the being Dick he was talking about, it was the Bobbie affair. And he was right. She never forgave him, but was pregnant and she had to have it "perfect." Don was allowed to come back, not because she was ready to make it right between the two of them, but because he gave her things, and she loved it. At the end, when Betty says "I'm going to Reno, and you're going to consent…" did you notice the "I know about you…" Oh that made me sick! Basically, "if I don't get my way and you fight me, I'll hold it over you that I will reveal your Dick Whitmaness…and all that it entails." Despite all of Don's mistakes, he's not ever been that low.
So, now what? I couldn't help but think with Henry, Betty and baby Gene on the plane that maybe they will be a family. With Don, Sally and Bobby- and lots of help from Carla, that they will be a family. And maybe someone's favorite teacher could come on board and nurture those Draper kids too. I wonder where Matt will take that? Is Suzanne going to come back and take care of Don and the kids and be so perfect there but never have that corporate wife thing, that Betty had down pat? Will that hurt the fledgling SCD&P? I can't wait until the post where we all get to speculate!
Sir Hillary – no, the people who moved to Reno (usually women) actually had to live there for six weeks . Here's an article about it: http://www.onlinenevada.org/reno_divorce_colony_l…
269 and 297 — Yes, we have seen Betty in red nail polish before, most notably on the night baby Gene was conceived! When Don was sleeping on the floor at Gene house, we see Betty's red tipped talon reach for him just before she mounts him for The Act.
(of course the next day she says it never happened)
Very nice, #327, JoanvsJane. I keep thinking, too, about Betty's trip to Reno and how it mirrors the real life trip that Bryn Mahr graduate and New Yorker fiction editor Katherine Angell took in the thirties, when she divorced her wealthy husband and married E.B. White.
It was scandalous then, but it was also the way to get what she wanted. She and White had fallen in love. She left her two children and lived in Reno for six weeks. She and White wrote each other many letters and stayed in close touch. When she returned, she and White married almost immediately.
Apparently, in keeping with the times, they didn't consider deeply how this would effect the children, who were Sally's age and older, and there is a letter that White wrote to his new wife that said (paraphrasing), "Obviously, to think that I could absorb Sally and Roger overnight, or they me, is unthinkable."
They had a rough transition with the kids, (Roger became a very well respected editor at the NYer and a great writer) and they remained married until Katherine's death in the seventies.
That's how it was done then, and in the early sixties. You had to have the money to do it, and the okay (what was that word? It started with an "r") of the spouse you were divorcing.
Didn't see this anywhere else, so thought I'd offer:
Alternate title for Epi 13: Sterling Coo-coup.
Did anyone else notice that they used the music cue from the very first episode when they walk into S-C? It's a sort of calling back. It's that jazzy upbeat tune that they play both when Peggy first enters SC and then again when she's looking around at all the men leering at her. This has to be deliberate to key you to thinking: new beginning, sort like the old beginning.
What I’m saying is that it’s indicative of the times and who Betty is, as well as her social station, to become involved with the next man who can take care of her, whether she knows him well or not — she did this with Don as well.
Actually, when she married Don she was an independent career girl living on her own, and he had to pursue her. And before she truck out on her own, even though she looked up to Gene as Sally does Don, from the glimpses we've seen into her childhood she didn't get taken care of any more than the roof, three squares, and education most middle-class kids get. Unless you count being fined for small talk and having to walk home from the gorcery store as pampering.
But first: I’m starting to like Trudy more and more. Did y’all notice how even Don was smiling when she arrived with lunch — and a cake! Yes, Trudy, it IS exciting to be starting a brand new agency.
YES! That was so fun to watch. From the minute Pete asked her to make the call and talk like a secretary, I began to wonder just how big a part she's going to play in the new agency. Could she be trading in charity work for a full-time job as SCDP's receptionist?
Maybe someone can answer this but at the lawyers office Betty didn't harp on about Don not being Don but only used his infidelity. I wonder if she has told Henry the specifics about Don being Dick?
"I'm not really sick" Pete stating the obvious. I also loved Trudy calling from the bedroom while Don is there. I think she sniffed an opportunity.
I'm so glad they won't be putting Bert on an ice flow anytime soon. He seemed so energized by their conspiracy. It's like a second revolution against the Brits.
Joan…now she needs her name on the partners list, she knows everything about everything and she would be a better head to media than Harry.
And sniffle…poor Paul finding Peggys office cleaned out. He's been (so far) left behind and to those left at SC it had to feel awful not to be taken to the new agency.
I cannot wait for the next season!
This season was just weighed down by the Draper marriage, and now that it is over, the swing 60's can offically begin.
I can't wait for the next season where we can see the building of an advertising dynasty.
I think Don and Betty suck for not being able to hold it together until January. They have ruined Christmas for their kids forever. If they could have waited until say mid January, then only January is ruined forever.
I know the kids would have known something was up and it would have been awful, but it wouldn't stay with them like the memory of the Christmas Mommy went to Reno.
"And here's a picture of your first Chrismas tree, Gene. Well, it had to be a cactus, Mommy was establishing residency."
I can't help thinking, if Betty really was the whore and snob Don called her, and the narcissist she's sometimes painted as, she could have gotten out of the marriage simply by exposing Don. There would have been some sort of scandal, but she and the children would have been seen as the innocent victims of a con man, objects of pity and public goodwill.
#336 cheryl6- the cactus Xmas tree image is a winner. lol
It was worth the wait to read all this today…
I loved the moment where Don tries the (f)art department door with a key, then just kicks it in. Did anyone else feel the echo to his father's death? Instead of being a trauma this time, however, it was mastery.
The intensity of emotion I feel for these fictional characters…unbelievable!
#288 I don't think Betty is leaving Don because she finds he is a you put it "white trash" I agree that it's probably not a selling feature but the marriage was over long before she found out that Don is really Dick.
The only reason Betty stayed in the marriage is because she found out she was pregnant. There has been little to no joy in the Drapper household almost from the beginning of Season 1.
So much to say, and so many things to common on. This is going to be a long post
@231 Joy- It reminded of Sorkin. I know not everyone's a fan, but a major theme on his shows is that when there are major problems in your blood family, you can find solace in your surrogate family of co-workers.
@256 Hokma- I love it. Harry understands TV, and Pete understands the youth market. He's going to be the one to explain Beatlemania.
@ 259 Dimples-Don= I'm sure Don will visit the kids on the weekend, and maybe a night in his new place, whatever it is.
@ 285 workingmom- The "Oceans 11" parallel is perfect.
@ 301 Robin D.-I loved Pete and Trudy. They are truly partners. I thought it was so cute when she brought sandwitches to the hotel. She is such a den mother.
This may have been my favorite "Mad Men" episode of all time. I loved how once the defection got rolling, it really gained steam in a hurry. I thought it was great the way Roger called Joan. It was so cool to see who came. I have been vindicated in my opinion of Pete as a professional. Don said everything I have been saying to my friends when I defend Pete in his professional life. I loved Don confessing the bond he has with Peggy, and she is the only one who really understands him. It seemed like it was everything he wanted to say to Betty, but couldn't. Can I just say, "Go Peggy!" for refusing to get the coffee?
Poor Bobby and Sally. Those kids are in for a rough time. I thought Sally was going to be much more upset at Betty, but instead took her anger out on Don. She's running away the second she hears about Haight-Ashbury.
This episode had the perfect balance of office and home life. The home story was serious drama, and the office was a screwball comedy.
#331 This episode really ran the gamut. Loved the giddiness of the SCDP storyline, yet the scenes with Don and Betty, and especially with Sally and Bobby, were truly heartbreaking. After Don's confession, I thought he and Betty had a chance.
However, the Reno divorce storyline made me laugh! In 1960, my own mother went to Tijuana, rather than Reno unfortunately, to get her divorce from her first husband whom she had left years earlier, but who wouldn't sign the papers. My dad paid for the whole thing.
Imagine their chagrin when they couldn't secure a NYS marriage license. Mexican divorces weren't legal in NYS. They recall repairing to the bar to figure out what to do–especially with the date set and the invitations out. So they picked up the entire wedding party and moved it to Connecticut, 4 days late. I wonder if Tijuana was cheaper, or whether the uncooperative 1st husband forced them to make alternate arrangements without checking things out properly. I wish they were around to ask.
I forgot to mention, it was shocking to see the death of Archibald. Dick seemed genuially horrified. I don't think Trudy is going to work for them. They'll hire some of the old S-C secretaries once things are settled. It took Don quite some time to find a secretary he liked. He's not letting Allison go without a fight.
I think this was the best season finale because of all the laughs. All the other ones were so serious and full of gloom. Sure, the Draper divorce was a tragedy but Sterling Cooper was brilliant stage comedy once they decided to start the new agency: the "fart" department, Harry being clueless, Roger treating Peggy like a secretary and getting shot down, and the big anticipation for the first phone call…which turns out to be Harry being clueless, again.
As for those left behind at SC, they might all get hired back eventually at SCDP. So all that discussion we had about "why Ken got the job" seems so irrelevant now because Lane made the decision after knowing about the SC sale, and now they want Pete instead. I love how Paul is relatively about the whole situation until he realizes Don left him behind and took Peggy instead. That whole Aquanet story episode was building up to that moment when Paul opened Peggy's door.
As for the Betty-Henry situation. I personally like this storyline because it's the most logical scenario for Betty, given her personality. She'll probably be miserable in a few years like before, but that makes a great storyline, doesn't it? I don't think she'll be completely out of the show. She's mother to Don's kids and Mr. and Mrs. Francis will still be living in the area considering Rockefeller will be governor until 1973.
The only thing I was afraid of out of the Draper divorce was the possibility that Don would run to Suzanne, which thankfully, didn't happen…in this episode. But hopefully MW and the writers will realize how contrived the character and bad the acting was. I mean, the two didn't even have chemistry. Sure, Henry-Betty and Duck-Peggy were kinda creepy, but I at least felt some sexual tension and spark in their scenes. And that initial Duck and Peggy hookup was hot on scene! Now that she's working at the Pierre and so does Duck, it will make their nooners a lot easier.
2 thoughts:
1. Many have speculated that Pryce, with his "British connections" will be invaluable to his new firm as a rainmaker with the "British invasion" during the next months/years. But, Pryce is not a marketing man; rather he is a "back office" man; does not appear to have "strong family or society connections ( although his reference to his "school" might suggest otherwise ) and his "British-ness" might actually be a handicap in light of the way he enabled the defections and cleavings from PPL, including himself. That betrayal is not well considered in the upper crust business.The fact he may be the fourth partner, does not excuse him from being the Third Man.
2. An unspoken value added of MM– For how many people, has the week-to-week and then season-to-season expectations and anticipations of plot and character developments led to positive life style changes, changes to enhance their health to live longer, if for no other reason to watch and post?
I remember thinking, during the downtime from the page last night, that part of why Paul was not told was because he has a big mouth. And of course, that they only needed essential crew at the time.
Now I wonder how Sally and Bobby will act when mom comes back with a new husband and expects things to just be accepted by the two. Betty is going to have a battle over that when she gets home.
@ 344 Empress Rouge-Harry isn't clueless, just a few steps behind the others. He forgot the room number, he's not a total idiot. He's just a sweet guy who gets in over his head, and a tad nervous. I love that he wanted to check with Jennifer before making a big career move.
@ #116 Turtle – the golden horseshoe is from the 5G epsidoe in S1. Don receives the award and there is a picture of him holding it in the paper. This prompts Adam Whitman to come find Don. I have always found it errie that Don keeps it around since it prompted the encounter between him and Adam. Now it's traveling with Don.
Also curious what everyone's thoughts are about whether or not Henry Francis will stay in Reno with Betty. The Rockefeller campaign is still in the throes of the 1964 GOP nomination campaign, so I can't see him taking 6 weeks away. I realize Betty is not attracted to Henry because of his political ties, but I do wonder what impact the Goldwater nomination / Rockefeller loss will have on her view of Henry and on Henry himself. Betty rarely, if ever saw Don struggle at work, and that could be a big blow to her glorified view of Henry, a man she barely knows, especially if Henry takes it poorly.
Awesome final episode. Will have a hard time waiting until next year.
I just wanted to mention that even though I knew it was inevitable, I was sad to see Don and Betty part. The living room scene was heartbreaking, and I had a glimmer of hope for them on Halloween when Don came clean, but it wasn't to be. I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of Betty though. Sooner or later she's going to read The Feminine Mystique and realize she's just gone into the same type of relationship with Henry. Betty and Henry are in a honeymoon phase of their relationship now, but she'll see that he's a manipulator soon enough. (when he insisted that she take no alimony form Don it gave me the chills). At least Don came clean with her about his identity–Henry will always wear a slick politician mask, and he won't have much interest in her children. I have no doubt that Don and Betty will eventually become 'good friends' with mutual respect for each other if not again lovers.
"No expectation that Betty would become the next Gloria Steinem or Betty Friedan, but Joan and Peggy have been written to show strength and growth with story moving in a positive direction, where Betty gets sent to the boring corner."
Peggy still wants Don's approval/respect, even if she is being more bold about it. Joan is still married to Greg. Her reason for returning to work is that she needs the money. Frankly, I don't see either of them as the next Betty Friedan or Gloria Steinem no more than I do Betty.
Why is Betty expected to continue her life without a man? Mona Sterling found a new man in her life. Duck Phillips' ex-wife remarried.
Henry will always wear a slick politician mask, and he won’t have much interest in her children.
How do you know this?
Makes you wonder if Henry isn’t a coldly calculating bastard. Betty had a pretty good chance of being independently well-off, he pressured her out of it, and she, still caught up in her infantile rescue fantasy, bought it hook line and sinker. You blew it Bets. You are going to be just as dependent- more dependent really — on this man you hardly know than you were on Don. Good luck with that.
Henry DID NOT rescue Betty. Betty made that decision to divorce Don all on her own.
DRush76, I beg to differ. Betty would never have sought a divorce attorney or asked Don for a divorce without Henry's support and proposal of marriage.
Why is Betty expected to immediately become the independent woman upon her divorce from Don? Why are fans so hostile over her relationship with Henry Francis and already predicting marital failure? Do they dislike Henry that much?
Are fans really angry at her for going from one man to another? Mona Sterling did the same. So did Duck Phillips' ex-wife. Or are fans really angry at Betty for choosing another man over Don Draper? Are they angry at her for not trying to work at a marriage that was doomed before she discovered his true identity? Or are they angry at her for not being Peggy Olson or Joan Harris . . . who are just as flawed in their own ways, as Betty is?
What's going on?
The defection of the SC staff was fantastic! This once happened in a law firm I worked – a rain maker, 2 lawyers and a paralegal took the biggest client and stole the files over the weekend. I was in the “left behind” camp an had to answer loyalty and “what did you see and hear” interviews.
The Draper family break-up was heart breaking – the kids side. Don was right about telling Betty that it was a class thing – she kept her nose above his real identity and found another of her society to feel superior with. I predict Betty will continue to be just as unhappy as she doesn’t seem to participate emotionally much in any relationship – motherhood included.
DRush76, I beg to differ. Betty would never have sought a divorce attorney or asked Don for a divorce without Henry’s support and proposal of marriage.
How do you know this? Has Matt Weiner stated this? We don't even know if Betty would have sought a divorce if she had not met up with Henry. We don't this. And even if she had decided to get a divorce because of Henry . . . so what? What if Betty likes being married? It's not a crime. We don't even know if her marriage to Henry will be exactly like her marriage to Don. Wouldn't we be guilty of making an assumption if we said so?
I loved the season finale! Betty sure had an air of entitled superiority with Don! She has the proverbial trump card.
The new agency seemed to liberate everyone. The pecking order went out the window. In Malcolm Gladwell's book, "What the Dog Saw", there is an essay about an advertising firm that banded together and started an agency in a hotel suite in NYC. It was extremely successful and, as the agency grew, it never moved from the hotel. I wonder if that agency [whose name I can't remember] is the inspiration for the new Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
#314
Yes.
I'm not sure who, but someone said something to the effect that acquaintances marry all the time. I'm not quite sure how true that is and it seems rather unwise to do in general, but when Henry proposed to Betty seemed to be more strangers than acquaintences. For instance, she didn't seem to know he had a daughter or that she was a grown woman. Also, barring off-screen encounters, as far as Henry knows she has a baby and one other kid who hung up the phone once. I mean those seem beyond basic acquaintence things. And though I'm sure that you learn more about your spouse after you marry them and find out different things about their personality shouldn't you have a sense of their basic personality first and maybe some sense of how they interact with other people (which except when he was formally introduced at the derby party she hasn't seen) and have had say one meaningful conversation other than the proposal conversation. Especially if you have kids shouldn't you find out how this person relates to kids in general and your particular kids, their views on child rearing, how they treated their kids, why they divorced their first spouse etc. I mean she knows absolutely nothing about him except he works for the governor, is divorced, moved furniture when he was young, is a lawyer and what car he drives.
What a finale! The new formation of SCD&P is a perfect springboard to the next season.
I got quite an Ocean’s Eleven vibe from the episode, and it’s almost perfectly cast (using the 2001 version of the film with Clooney, Pitt, Damon, et al):
Don – Danny Ocean
Roger – Rusty, the sidekick and comic foil
Bert – Rueben, (Elliot Gould), who lost his shop to the upstart and bankrolls the caper to get his business back
Pete – Linus (Matt Damon), the young awkward protege whose family name carries weight
Lane – Catton (Bernie Mac), the guy working from the inside
Harry – Saul – he’s not quite sure what’s going on, needs to be told what to do
Peggy – Livingston, the shrewd electronics guy
Joan – Tess, who the lead guy (in this case Roger) wants to win back
If they bring in Kurt and Smitty, they can be the Mormon Twins!
Added to the ambiance was the lounge music in the background throughout, the snappy dialogue, the recruiting one by one of all the players – fabulous!
DRush, thanks for your comments about Betty. I am not completely understanding all the hostility focusing squarely on Betty. She's trying to find some happiness in her life, and she isn't going about it in the absolutely reckless way that Don does. I think Betty believes she is doing this in the most dignified way possible, and that she believes this is better for her children. Remember, Betty has never even slept with Henry. Don's the one who has been a whore, and for the complete duration of their marriage. He's the one who hasn't put his family first. He broke the family. Sally and Bobby can blame Don for the divorce, not Betty. Betty is trying to "fix" it, with someone she believes is a better man. Is Henry a better man? That we don't know yet.
DRush76 – Also, Helen Bishop did have new man in her life. Glen ran away in season 2 (when Don was kicked outta the house) because Helen spent too much time with her new boyfriend.
Retrogirl – "Clueless" is a bit strong to describe Harry. I agree that he's a few steps behind. But I like how it provides some comedy in this otherwise, very serious show.
Some notes about the about the flashback scenes:
1) They brought back the same child actor to play young-bowl cut Dick. Obviously, the actor has grown a bit since he played Dick in season 1 flashbacks. However, this flashback is supposed to take place probably 3 to 9 months BEFORE the flashback to Adam's birth. But I think the show they did the best they can with child actors and the story timeline.
2) Abigail did not show any sign of being pregnant, even though Adam was born soon after Archie's death (soon enough that they'd know it was Archie's). It could be that Abigail was so early in her pregnancy that she didn't know yet. Certainly, she didn't mention having a baby on the way when they were discussion their financial situation over the winter. Do we know in which month Adam was born? It looks like Archie died around November since he says they've got "a month until winter."
Goodness, DRush76. I don't have to be right. What's I've written is an opinion, based on the subtleties and nuances in the story, and my interpretations of them. I get to have a viewpoint, and so do you; so does everybody. One of the great things about fiction is how it is open to interpretation based on what people bring to the story and what they take away from it.
Since Farnham at 255 already made the JJ from Good Times allusion, I will say that towards the end of the episode I said Don was metaphorically using another of JJ’s signature, but less famous moves, claps hands together, then juts them out to the side and says, “MOVING ON!!!”
What an episode, I was so excited I could barely sleep. What a whirlwind. Poor little Bobby, my heart really broke for him, especially when he wrapped himself all the way around Don and Don just held him and patted his back. He’s still just a little guy. And boy oh boy, Sally, man I really hope they show some of the fights she and Betty have when she gets older.
Hats off to all who saw a new agency coming. It is radically different from what people imagined, but it still happened. And I loved it when Joan did her little slinky walk in and got everything organized. I also loved it when Lane got the 2nd call from St. John, patiently listened to his rant, wished him a happy christmas and hung up! And who knew Bert had such balls of steel. Glad Roger and Don are “back together” and that Don was able to swallow his pride and ask Peggy a second time to come back. WOW!
It’s like they’ve been saving Roger up all season, just to be extra Rogery this episode. He’s back, baby!
Mrs. Pryce is going to be FURIOUS. But maybe finding out it was either New York or India will placate her.
One thing I think is intersting is that on this thread and in a few others I've seen more people lamenting the Betty "hatred" than people actually hating on Betty. I've seen a few people make clearly anti-Betty comments, quite a few people saying that her actions in marrying Henry, or seeming to be prepared to marry Henry, are not wise and lamenting the fact that she isn't going to stand on her own two feet first. But I've read dozens of comements today complaining about Betty bashing. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like she is getting a fair amount of sympathy today and maybe it is something I've missed that seems to happen more on other sites, but I've only seen slightly more antipathy towards Betty compared to other characters.
On a totally unrelated topic does anyone have any opinions on Don's choice of words when he confronted Betty about Henry when he said she had her "little white nose" in the air. Don't know what to make of it, but I found it very interesting.
351 — I don't know it, it's just a hunch
"Have another. It's 9:30, for God's sake. "
Go Roger!
I love this show. I loved the way Don took control of things. Hilton did him a great favor with their little chat. It changed his life. Don steadied himself and went into action. He not only was able to start his own agengy but he was able to repair some very important and damaged relationships. For once he was able to put aside his huge ego and do the right things. I felt bad for Don's family as that was something he could not fix within the last episode. Betty is a confused woman and I actually feel sorry for her. Even though she's going with the other guy for now I got the impression that all her heart's not into it. I got the sense that a part of her wanted Don to either beg or try to make her change her mind about leaving. Somehow I think she's making a huge mistake and I don't trust the other man. It just seems too good to be true. I can't wait til next season to see how it all plays out with Don, her and the new agency.
# 729 – "The shot of Betty on the plane was stunning. She’s a lost soul."
I thought back to when Don was winging his way west to California in Season Two and how the sun was shining through the plane window, onto his face.
Two plane scenes and two entirely different vibes.
With Don, even though there was uncertainty, there was a hopeful feeling about what might lie ahead.
With Betty, the feeling seemed dark, somber and hopeless.
Before I posted this, I took a look at Season Two – Episode Ten "The Inheritance" and before the final scene with Don on the plane to California, Glen Bishop tells Betty, "I came to rescue you".
Henry Francis sees himself in the role of a rescuer, just as Glen Bishop did, and Betty's prospects for happiness (and not floating away) are pretty much the same with Henry, as they were with Glen.
This should be really interesting to watch!
I'm with you DRush76.
HUGE differences in marriage relationships between now and the 60's:
- couples date longer, get to know each other more intimately and sexually before marrying now
- couples discuss key issues like financing and family background now
- women are more independent in general now
- in current times, when women get married they consider what would happen if the relationship didn't last. it used to be considered in poor taste and unromantic to do that.
- divorce laws are largely different now — they support women much more than they used to and women are more informed
It seems appropriate that Betty and Henry would not know each other well considering she's currently married. It would be inappropriate for them to have spent a lot of time together. They haven't slept together, which shows she is trying to "do the right thing" and he's trying to respect that she's married. Betty kind of has to "build a raft". That would be what a smart woman would do if she felt like she needed to get out of a marriage. Divorce laws didn't favor a woman being on her own. Woman didn't have viable careers, no daycare, etc. Don't judge Betty by today's standards, but Don by 60's standards (or really none at all).
I wonder if women are STILL, even in retrospect, judged unfairly to a large extent. Yikes! I can understand viewers not liking her cool persona, but judging her actions is another thing. The way I see it she really didn't have many choices, did she? How many could feel loved by a man with his track record. He's told her "everything's going to be OK" before and been lying through his teeth. How unsettling is that? In a society where most women (and certainly all 'respectable' ones) with children DO live dependent on a man, haven't her choices been rather sane?
Anyone think that the Jane Sterling is not going to be especially happy to have Joan back in her husband's (work) life again?
I doubt they will go into it but in the real world I can't imagine that the weekend firings of 3 partners who subsequently banded together with their former "boss" would not be met with serious litigation by their former firm.
Finally, how about that phone explosion by Mr Sheffield? Well done Charles Shaughnessy.
P.S. Shahadaroba was the B side to Roy Orbison's single "In Dreams", released in January 1963.
I had a hard time sympathizing with Betty this episode, she has plenty of reasons to divorce Don but I don't think she has any feelings for her children. Don has his own failings as a father but especially this season I got the feeling that he loves his children. I'm interested to see what Betty's relationship with Henry will be something tells me it won't be a happy one. After watching this episode I noticed that the Campbells probably have the best marriage on the show. My favorite scene had to be the one between Don and Peggy in her apartment after his marriage broke up he realized what he should have said to Peggy.
#260 In S1 they got two of the chip & dips. Pete returned one for the rifle.
I loved seeing Pete carry the rifle out when they looted the office…!
It is odd that the whole season the lovechild issue just vaporized this season, though. I was hoping for a bit more aftermath. Seeing Trudy, Pete, and Peggy all in the same corner of the hotel room just made me wonder about that all over again. You know how much Trudy wants a baby. Do we know if Peggy give up the kid to an agency, or to her family? I know she tells Pete "I gave it away"…
Peggy gave the kid to an agency.
Judging from the comments I have read on this particular thread, many viewers seemed to be angry that Betty has left Don for Henry. I've been reading a great deal of angry and insulting comments about her. And her relationship with Henry seemed to be demonized. Are people really that angry that she has left Don for Henry?
Judging from the comments I have read on this particular thread and other blogs, many viewers seemed to be angry that Betty has left Don for Henry. I've been reading a great deal of angry and insulting comments about her. And her relationship with Henry seemed to be demonized. Are people really that angry that she has left Don for Henry?
Trust me, Henry Francis is just this year's candy pink stove.
#369 – I don't know if Jane would react to Joan's return to the office. I don't think anyone knew about Joan and Roger besides YodaBert (but he's omniscient). We know Joan is discreet and Roger respects that. And Roger's smart enough to know his spoiled brat of a wife would throw another fit if she learned she was a "replacement" for Joan.
"Trust me, Henry Francis is just this year’s candy pink stove.
Why would you call him that? I realize that I'm being persistent in this topic, but I can't help it. I'm reading so much hostile comments about Betty and Henry and I don't see why they deserve this much hostility.
I kind of wonder if the way the show is set up exacerbates some of the gender inequality it depicts and influences people's reactions as a consequence. Don's male-dominated world of advertising is sexy and exciting; Betty's housewife world is dull and drab. Don gets to be a mover and a shaker; Betty is limited to far fewer options (and simply can't imagine as many options as a modern viewer). Don is and always will be the main character above all others; Betty, Joan, and Peggy will never get the same amount of attention or flashback treatment. Sure, this show explores sexism from different perspectives — and I think it does a great job of making all the characters interesting and deliciously flawed, and shining a spotlight on the repressive standards of the time — but maybe there's a reason that we in viewing audience tend toward a massive Don-crush. He's the sun around which the other planets revolve. No matter how much of a bastard he is, he'll always get more sympathy and interest. We simply "live" with him more, and he also gets to do more by virtue of his sex.
I like this show a lot, and I am grateful for wonderful female characters, but I wonder what it would be like if it paid just as much attention to a female character (even Peggy or Joan, for all those who have severe Betty aversion) from the start.
To me, Jane is simply a younger version of Joan. By the time she reaches Joan's age, she'll probably resort to childishly vindictive behavior to get back at those who have angered her . . . like Joan.
368 Gladwoman. Interesting points but I'm not convinced yet. I personally am not damning Betty, but it seems to be a bad decision and I'm not sure how much we are judging through modern lenses in terms of how well she knows a man she may marry. Although couples today are more likely to be intimate in terms of sex and living together, I would think that in 1963 it would have been a lot more likely to know people who you married well b/c people were less likely to move around like they do now so you would know the people around you through your neighborhood, friends, school, church, etc. Also, it seems as though Gene and Betty's brother's biggest objections to Don where his lack of people and their lack of knowledge about who he really is. Henry may have people, but we, and probably Betty, don't know that yet. As for it being "inappropriate" for Betty and Henry to spend lots of time together, is that any less inappropriate than all they did already, from Henry feeling up her pregnant belly (not her fault) the fliritng, the letters, making out in her car, his coming to Betty and Don's house to see her, and his accompanying her to the divorce lawyer? No wonder the guy automatically assumed they were fooling around. Also, Betty has other options like getting a job, as Helen Fisher did, moving into her Dad's house, staying in the current house and living off of the alimony and child support, selling her Dad's house and using her share to live off of until she can figure out her next move. Don isn't a monster, he isn't going to leave his kids and ex-wife to starve, he'd make sure they lived reasonably well even without Henry.
I also think that even though fewer women of her class worked, it was possible to get some kind of job ;40 years before her mother had a job before she was married, so Betty could work too. I think for Betty it is less the money, she'd be fine no matter what, she just wants a man to protect her no matter what, which may be something that we are judging her through modern eyes about but in terms of "needing a raft to survive, I don't think so.
@376 DRush. I know I personally don't like Henry b/c he seems creepy. The very first scene he was in seemed creepy the way he approached a married, pregnant woman and obviously hit on her was creept. It made my skin crawl. Then the whole "I need for you to come to me" thing he pulled when he sent his female co-worker (a woman in a professional job thus proving women have other options than going from man to man), his expecting Betty to have sex with him on his desk, and then his out of the blue proposal. To me it seems like he disrespects marriage as much if not more than Don ever did, Don never tried to steal another man's wife for keeps. Also, if he is willing to slip into Don and Betty's marriage what is to say he won't slip into someone else's marriage while he's with Betty. Plus, as I have probably said too many times myself, she doesn't know the dude, he may have cheated on his first wife as much as Don cheated on her, for all she knows he beat his first wife and kids, he could be a child molester, he might walk around the house naked all the time, unlikely and I'm not accusing him of any of those things but it seems pretty crazy to just jump in like that, especially since she is taking her kids into this situation. She was awfully concerned about Happy's children and how their Mom marrying right after a divorce and then she does the same thing, though she will probably keep her kids unlike Happy.
I am not mad at Betty for leaving Don. I am thrilled with her for leaving Don. It is the best thing she could do for everyone concerned, especially the viewers.
The opposite of love isn't hate, it is apathy. That's what I have for Betty's character. I don't care about her unless Don or one of the kids is there. I watched her entire romance with Henry Francis with the mute on. I knew there was nothing interesting going on there.
The divorce is the most interesting thing that she has done. I have great hopes for Betty to eventually devolve into something like a secondary character in a Jacqueline Susann novel.
And I think Don and Joan need to get married. Once Greg dies in Vietnam, of course.
1. I want to see Don and Joan having some fairly graphic sex.
2. I think she'd be a great step mom for Sally.
3. They would compliment each other, intellectually and physically.
4. They make each other laugh.
#269 – I like your observation about the color red. Mad Men has always channeled Hitchcock in its episodes and Hitch used red as a motif in two of his works. http://www.hitchcockwiki.com/wiki/Themes_-_the_co…
On the subject of colors – Betty has been wearing a lot of gray lately around Don: during the second half of "The Gypsy and the Hobo" (confronting Dick/Don and during trick-or-treating) and when she asks for a divorce in this episode. She also wears gray during unpleasant situations, like at the doctor's office when she found out she was pregnant and when she was at the divorce attorney's with Henry. However, when she finally got the divorce as is off to Reno, she is wearing jubilant red. This reminds me a lot of "Dial M for Murder" where Grace Kelly's costumes start out bright and turns more somber as Margot's situation worsens. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046912/trivia
As far as Betty only leaving Don for Henry…
I don't think she would have taken the step of consulting the Philadelphia lawyer if she wasn't already dead serious about the possibility of divorcing Don, well before she knew Henry was still interested in her. The lawyer scared her off, but would it have been permanent? I doubt it. The die seemed cast at that point – consulting a lawyer at all was a HUGE step for someone in Betty's shoes.
If it had happened a few months earlier, while gene was still alive, or if she and William hadn't been fighting – if she had people, as Gene would have said – she'd have been watching the JFK assassination from an apartment in Reno, not the living room in Ossining.
This is my pet theory about the reception of female characters on TV, and everyone is free to take it for what it’s worth, disregard it, or disagree with it.
There seems to be a certain mold a female character has to fit for her to be acceptable to female viewers. That mold varies with the times, from Donna Reed to Veronica Mars.
Back in ’63, Betty would have fit the mold perfectly. In 2009, the Joan type is what’s considered worthy. In Season 1, when Peggy was less sassy and brassy, female viewers hated her and went on about what a terrible actress Elisabeth Moss was. Over three seasons, as she’s gotten to be more like the Joan type, female viewers have warmed up to her and praise Moss up and down while deriding Jones’s acting.
A female character with children has a double mold to fill. Not only does she have to be bold, sassy, wisecracking, and glamorous, she needs to embody all the current parenting theories.
My grandmother said it, my mother said it, and now I’m saying it. Women are harder on other women than on men.
# 379 – I’m reading so much hostile comments about Betty and Henry and I don’t see why they deserve this much hostility."
It's not a matter of hostility. I've previously defended Betty on BoK and I'm fine with her freely choosing to settle down with Henry.
As I noted in # 366 – "Henry Francis sees himself in the role of a rescuer, just as Glen Bishop did, and Betty’s prospects for happiness (and not floating away) are pretty much the same with Henry, as they were with Glen."
That's not a "hostile" comment. It's just my take on the situation and I think I will ultimately be proven right on this.
Melissa, I think a lot of us are reacting to how Betty chooses her men. She goes for the illusion of perfection and how she will be rescued and put into her pretty tower by the shining knight.
She doesn't know much about him (and what if he lied to her), he won't let her take any money to claim as her own, and besides, do you expect to see Betty fly off into the sunset with the happily ever after ending?
I don't mean to be hostile but the woman has so much strength in her that she could use, and probably a whole lot of brain cells she isn't employing. I will be happily surprised if Betty gets exactly what she wants, but I won't be shocked if she gets what she deserves for her loss of thinking. Don likes to say you haven't thought this through for a reason. I just want her to stop and think before making rash decisions that are going to affect her children. Sally and Bobby are not going to roll over and accept Henry as fast as she did.
Hi everybody! Long time lurker here. I’ve been enjoying everybody’s comments.
Random thoughts:
Why doesn’t Betty tell the lawyer about Don/Dick? Because it doesn’t matter. The person, not the name, entered the contract of marriage.
It seems to me that Don exploded at Betty because HIS blinkers came off. He’s seen her as (and loved her as, as much as possible) a “Main Line lady”. Cool and pure. Sure, she could get her little head tangled up and need to be sorted out by a good doctor, but she’d always be a lady. Now all of a sudden he was confronted with the fact that she could scheme! and run around! He lost his dream.
I’ve liked the Pete/Trudy storyline this season. I was a little confused by the German au pair storyline, but now I think it was put in to demonstrate the essential honestness and openness of their marriage as compared to Don and Betty’s. Don (Old Don, at least) could have had a one-night stand with the au pair and not given it a second thought and no one would ever have found out, but Pete couldn’t NOT confess.
Who wants Pete? The Americans want Pete. They can see what his talents are. The Brits liked Ken better, because they were focused on his people and schmoozing abilities.
Here's something about the discussion of Sal's he-hiring: Why would we assume Sal *wants* to come back to work for Don and Roger? After the "you people" comment from Don, I don't know that I'd be willing to take orders from him, especially if I'd gotten another position, which Don seemed to think Sal wouldn't have trouble finding. We have no evidence that Sal's still unemployed, and, honestly, I think I'd lose a little respect for him if he accepted a job offer.
On another note, I don't trust Henry-the-Savior, and I'm disappointed but not surprised by Betty's behavior. As characters go, Peggy, Joan, Trudy, and Betty each give us different sides of women's evolution in the 60's. If they all wound up enlightened and progressive, we wouldn't have much to chat about here, eh? That we're disappointed in her choices speaks to the quality of the world they inhabit.
And Pryce is my new favorite. Happy Christmas!
#384 Cheryl6….Shhhh, the writers could be reading this. Try giving Betty a chance. She is the only wife with a substantial storyline and I think her story is important especially since she is the soon to be ex-wife of the main character.
As for Don and Joan, I've thought about it but it gives me the hibbie jibbies since she has already been with Roger.
I think considering that Don is going through this evolution and the fact that he was raised by step parents he'll want something different for his kids. I hope he realizes his importance and makes efforts to stay in their lives, emotionally.
#394:
Plus the fact that Sal being back would have to be hidden from LuckyBully…it's like he would be in the closet TWICE…
“I wonder if women are STILL, even in retrospect, judged unfairly to a large extent. Yikes! I can understand viewers not liking her cool persona
Her persona isn’t cool, her persona is dull as shit. To whomever asked why we hate Henry Francis? Hate him? OMG, I want to erect him a statue for getting Desperate Barbie off my show’s jugular. She (along with Don) was choking it to death. After Souvenir, I seriously pondered waiting for the DVDs to come out.
Yay for the return of the Chip ‘n Dip! Too bad both Peggy and Pete were relegated to potted plant status for most of the season while we saw Betty and Don being Aholes for the seventh week straight, but this episode certainly holds great promise for the future.
YodaBert and Roger back to being Roger (he’s back, baby!), Joan making the world spin the right way again and Peggy… actually being on the show for a change… Oh, yes. This was a great sendoff into the long dark hiatus.
@ #385 – Of course, Empress Rouge would like any mention of red, LOL …
I decided to check out the symbolism entries at the Wikipedia entry for the color red …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red
# 3.1 Sin, guilt, pain, passion, blood and anger
# 3.2 Courage and sacrifice
# 3.3 Warning
People hate Betty leaving Don because he's GAWJUS. If it was Harry pulling all that stuff on Jennifer for 10 years, they'd tell her to throw the entire Encyclopedia Brittanica at him. But since Don is HAWT, they imagine that they'd forgive him anything.
And then there are the people who said, "Well, why didn't she just get a job and move out? Why did she need another man to take care of her?" Sure, we can all see in retrospect that Betty would have been better off (in terms of leverage) not having the baby, of going up to Albany and "getting it taken care of," and letting Don stay moved out.
But she gave Don another chance (which he blew, really he did — if not for Betty finding the box, which he gave her ample opportunity to do being away from home so much, he'd still be seeing Suzanne and it's likely Betty and everyone else in town would have found out). And the baby exists and is now 6 months old. (And even today, a lot of women would have made the exact same choice; there are, after all, no abortion providers in almost 90% of U.S. counties.) She has no family to move in with who can take care of three young children, including an infant, while she works. It's unlikely she'd be able to afford Carla any longer. And whatever job she can get is going to be pretty menial, since her only paid employment experience is modeling and she's too old for that now.
If she'd moved out and abandoned the kids to Don, she'd be a pariah. Even now, women who do that are shunned; back then, I don't even want to think about how she'd have been treated. And if she hadn't given Don a second chance, viewers would have hated her for that. So I don't see any way for Betty-haters to let her off the hook. It's not easy to like her; she's very tightly wound and judgmental and isn't much for introspection. But she doesn't have a whole lot of agency, either.
"I think considering that Don is going through this evolution and the fact that he was raised by step parents he’ll want something different for his kids. I hope he realizes his importance and makes efforts to stay in their lives, emotionally."
Hmmm . . . good luck on that happening. Especially since Don isn't with the kiddies, while Betty is getting her divorce in Nevada.
Exactly Mellissa! It’s interesting to me that in the episode where Betty stood up to Don (ala 2009), viewers praised her acting and liked her character. I think over the long haul, when viewers look back at the authenticity of the series, JJ’s portrayal of Betty is RIGHT ON. She’s fearless. The viewers want to like her, but that’s not who she’s supposed to be. We’re supposed to feel depressed watching Betty because she portrays exactly how trapped and stifled a woman in her situation would be.
I think MW and the writers did her a disservice by spending too much screen-time on her story however. It caused the viewers to resent Don and Betty’s storyline because it overshadowed other important characters and the office storyline. Not the actresses fault.
I suppose I’ve always been interested in Betty for a number of reasons. I’m a stay at home Mom and can relate to some of her feelings (though I hope I don’t share many of her characteristics. I know for damn sure, I’m a better Mother). I was born in ’62 and my parents divorced when I was in High School. My parents marriage lacked affection and I’ve always been searching for answers as to why. I desperately seek to improve what I grew up with. Also, my friends parents grew up in this era and I can remember a couple of close friends who had Mothers with similar characteristics to Betty. She’s real to me.
A close friend of mine in HS had parents who divorced when she was in elementary school. Her father was very remote and uninterested in the family. He was very intelligent and interested in his career and very good looking. Her Mom was beautiful and intelligent and had never done anything other than be a wife. When he left her for another woman, she was devastated and literally sat around the house crying for YEARS. My friend complained that she wished there was some motivation for her Mom to get out of the house, but because she was taken care of financially and she had no experience in the work world, she couldn’t bring herself to get out there. She literally wasted her life inside the walls of her house, depressed and feeling powerless. I remember my friend saying that she felt both fury and pity for her mother. My friends life was difficult because she really didn’t have a functioning parent. At the same time, she had some sympathy for her Mother because she realized her Mother was raised to be “trapped”. Her Mom was beautiful and could have had any number of suitors. She married the man she loved, fulfilled the promises they made to each other and was loyal to him and when he walked out, she was ill prepared for any other kind of life. Of course there are many women who would have been able to change gears and make a life for themselves, but I think the point is that not everyone has that kind of temperament. Today it would be easier for her to learn a new skill and get out and work, but in those days, in her class, women didn’t work.
Big shout out to Melissa (#293 above) for use of the word “Rogery.” What a great word to describe my favorite character, the master of the quip. A great visual in last night’s episode was Roger sitting on the couch of the new office of SCD&P reading the paper amidst the swirl of activity in setting up the new office. Also loved pajama clad Pete telling Roger and Don “I’m not really sick” and extending his hand.
As for Betty and Henry, I am going to give Henry the benefit of the doubt. Getting on a plane to Reno with a woman and her baby seems like overkill if all you want is sex. I suspect Henry does have some money squirreled away, though hopefully in an interest bearing account, not in a desk drawer like Don. He’s a lawyer, and I surmise he spent some time in private practice before entering government service. His daughter is pals with Margaret Sterling, and Margaret Sterling strikes me as the sort who would only hang around other well-to-do girls. Whether Betty and Henry are a love match for the long haul remains to be seen, but for now, it appears he is genuinely interested in Betty.
“She goes for the illusion of perfection and how she will be rescued and put into her pretty tower by the shining knight. “
I appreciate that take on it, but I see something more complicated. I don’t see any indication whatsoever that she thinks Henry is “perfect;” only that he loves her and Don doesn’t. She’s just seen 15 tons of unhappiness come crashing down not only on her, but on the world at large. Everything she thought she could count on is gone, and yet, rising from the flames is another chance at love, something she had no reason to think she’d have again. I don’t think a man would have to be seen as a shining knight, or a life with someone who cares about you as a pretty tower, for a woman to take a chance at it after what she’s been through.
Since it's a new firm, the partner names should be re-ordered by seniority.
Cooper Sterling Draper Price has a better ring to it.
The names have some inherent associations.
Cooper – practical skill
Sterling – excellence and high standards
Draper – circumspection and discretion
Pryce – value and economy
Dark Peggy 382…. I agree that Betty’s making a bad decision. I don’t know if Henry’s a good match for her or not, but certainly with the collective conscious we have today, with benefit of our current knowledge, Oprah, Dr. Phil, what self help books say, religious leaders, our friends we have coffee with, coworkers, people on message boards, dear Abby (you see where I’m going with this) it’s clearly not a good decision to divorce one man on the promise that another man will take care of you both financially and emotionally. I mean what happens if he changes his mind. Where are you then? Up a creek without a paddle, that’s where.
What I’m trying to point out (and I’m quite sure MW is too) is that Betty is without benefit of the collective conscious of our current time. That doesn’t mean that viewers will like her personality, but they should keep in mind that her decisions reflect both her personality and the times.
I don’t know if Henry’s offer to take care of Betty and her kids financially portend a controlling, dismissive or condescending personality (like Don’s?) or if his actions are simply those of a man treating a woman the way a chivalrous man would in those times. I also don’t know if it will end up biting Betty that she let him do that for her. I do think their actions are in keeping with the times, though.
Not sure if this means anything, but I noticed when I rewatched tonight that Joan addressed Don as "Don", and not "Mr. Draper", as she usually did in a business setting. I thought it was interesting that there was a new informal tone there, at least between those two.
#391 — What if Henry Francis, knowing that Rockefeller will be running for President in 1964, wants to strike out on his own and run for public office? A single man at that time would be unfit — and Betty is the image of the perfect political wife — and given the back story of Happy Rockefeller, Betty would seem less shocking as Henry's spouse. In that case, it would be a marriage of convenience for both of them.
It have been said many times before that Betty does not really know Henry and I agree. Does she even know why he got divorced. Was he like Don, a serial cheater? It's clear Henry wants Betty dependent on him. She should be getting money from Don afterall she will be bringing up his 3 children on a daily basis. While he gets to do the fun stuff like taking them to the zoo every two weeks.
It's frustrating to watch Betty make the same mistakes but that's what makes Mad Men so wonderful. The writing is real.
It have been said many times before that Betty does not really know Henry and I agree. Does she even know why he got divorced.? Was he like Don, a serial cheater?
It's clear Henry wants Betty dependent on him. She should be getting money from Don afterall she will be bringing up his 3 children on a daily basis. While he gets to do the fun stuff like taking them to the zoo every two weeks.
It's frustrating to watch Betty make the same mistakes but that's what makes Mad Men so wonderful. The writing is real.
People hate Betty leaving Don because he’s GAWJUS. If it was Harry pulling all that stuff on Jennifer for 10 years, they’d tell her to throw the entire Encyclopedia Brittanica at him. But since Don is HAWT, they imagine that they’d forgive him anything.
"People" luuuuuv Desperate Barbie and excuse her every. single. behavior and every single… let's call it personality flaw because she's a spoiled wittle pwincess they identify with. I know this because I personally know every single Betty apologist and am therefore in a position to make such a judgment about all of them. Bow before my omniscience!
Same goes for "viewers" who "hated" Peggy in season 1 and berated EM's acting. Call Nielsen! Tell them to pack up and retire since WE know what "viewers" want: they're all just putting a good woman down.
I'm sure those of us who are bored watching paint dry are also not enjoying the subtle quality of this Mother Earth-sanctioned process because of our deep seated anti-feminism and rooting for the most oppressing oppressor that ever oppressed. Nevermind those who were just as bored and fed up with him. They don't fit the narrative. Because we say so.
Betty will find herself thinking of Don and her old life and by the end of the series they will be reunited, unless other major events (death or the like) intervenes. Her life with Henry (whom she doesn't love) will be a pathetic farce that she will want out of in a matter of weeks. As others have said here, she does not have the wherewithal to be on her own, especially while the comforts and status of her old life remain retrievable.
While he gets to do the fun stuff like taking them to the zoo every two weeks.
Yes, having your children taken away from you is literally a walk in the park.
Sterling, Cooper, Draper & Pryce has a nice ring to it.
Even though we saw what may be the end of the Draper marriage, the overall tone of the finale was upbeat and hopeful. You want to root for these people!
Was this episode an epiphany for Don ? If so, there were 2 lessons for him: The flashbacks showed not only how Archie died, but also the circumstances; Archie died when he agreed to compromise his principles. Through the breakup of his marriage, Don lost the relationship that he held most dear. By trying the reassemble SC and “Make things as they were†Don tries to create an environment where his principles determine the outcome. However, each time Don sought to enlist a potential ally in his cause, each responded in so many words with what Roger flatly stated “You don’t value relationshipsâ€. For Don to succeed, he also had to demonstrate that he valued the people he wanted to be gathered around him. Even though his name is third in the pecking order, by the time of the celebratory scene in the Pierre suite, we know that this is Don’s company- he is leader. The question remaining, is Don still the person who says things he doesn’t mean because the words fit his agenda or has the new Don realized he needed people around him to be happy ? If the latter than this echoes what Anna Draper told him in the penultimate episode to the S2 finale.
The cliché of the 60’s is that the young wanted to overthrow the establishment. Isn’t that what happened last night? The principles of SC were tired of being treated as pawns, were no longer company men (particularly Pryce), so they decided to stick it to “The Man†as they struck out on their own, led by Don.
Don is an Alpha Male Badass again. He was shocked and hurt when he left Connie’s suite. By the time he met with Cooper he was energized. His impassioned appeal to Cooper could have been delivered by Howard Roark and it was just what Cooper wanted to hear before he agreed.
Connie’s tip off reminded me of Pete’s tip off to Don last year, and approaching Pete before Ken was repayment of that debt. Don doesn’t care for Pete but he recognizes his value. The future of SCD&P may hinge on how much Don believes what he said about Pete’s abilities.
When a call was made to bring in someone with “discretion†my spouse and I both exclaimed “Joanâ€! In addition to the individual talents of the principles, she is the vital link that assures success. Bringing in Harry without an assistant creates a chance for Joan to take on some of the media responsibilities she enjoyed so much in S2. Joan will be able to carve out a life distinct from ‘ Nam bound Dr. Harris.
An Ad firm without an Art Department ? Not possible unless they outsource by contract, creating security and communication issues. They will need an in house staff. What a perfect way to bring Sal back. Now that Don has been freed to do what he instinctively feels is right, it is entirely plausible that he tells Garner Jr. that either he accepts that Sal will be a part of the company and working on his account or there will be a blunt conversation with Garner Sr. Emasculated Don with a contract could not risk having this conversation. Don the free agent can.
Don could have approached Hilton and probably gotten his business. But what Don learned in his last meeting with Connie is that Connie only respects equals. With SCD&P just starting, a client like Hilton would make or break the firm. He and Connie will ultimately do business again, but it will not be until the new company has enough leverage to negotiate terms instead of accepting them.
By realizing that Pryce had the power to fire them all, not only were the principles liberated, but they get to keep their powder dry. Pryce is a good manager and administrator who will keep them financially grounded. By breaking off, the money they were going to spend to buy the company can be more efficiently spent to build the company. While they are initially operating out of the Pierre Hotel , if they can bring in the approximately $30mm in billings they discussed, things will change quickly. There will be start up costs, including a move to a permanent office, but without the overhead of everything they left behind, the new firm will be lean, mean and potentially very profitable.
Don and Roger are like jilted lovers who still care for each other. Don’s fear is that he will end up like Roger and Roger wants to know what went wrong. After the scene at the bar, they are mostly even. Roger knew exactly what he was doing when he brought up Henry Francis- it was his form of revenge and it set up Don’s confrontation with Betty, which irrevocably damaged their marriage.
Don and Betty’s confrontation was shocking. He was drunk and were it not for the baby’s cry, he may have become violent. His words to her were damaging enough but so were hers to him. It is finally out in the open that Betty thinks she is superior to him. No matter how close they could become in the future, this may be a chasm that is ultimately too wide to heal because it so closely mirrors the contempt he felt from his father and step mother. The interesting thing is that Henry Francis also comes from a blue collar background. While he may have “Peopleâ€, they were not Main Line . While he may be a better husband to Betty, and may move in more rarefied circles due to his affiliation with Rockefeller, Betty is ultimately his superior. Betty disliked how much time Don spent away from home. How will she react when Henry travels across the country during the ’64 Primary season? How will she react when Rockefeller does not get the nomination and is sent back to Albany , along with Henry? Since we know Henry and Roger are something between acquaintances and friends, what is the potential for SCD&P to be asked to work on the Rockefeller campaign? Wouldn’t this bring Don and Henry into direct contact?
Don and Peggy were amazing. Interpret the scene from another perspective however and Don could have been talking to Betty. Is it just me or were the cadences and word choices Don used with Peggy reminiscent of the letter Don wrote to Betty in the finale of S2 ? As it played out, in the space of a few min Peggy went from despising Don to realizing that they will be professionally tied together for a long time. Peggy knows that Don is correct in saying that the two of them are unique in how they view themselves and the world. This is their bond and why she agrees to follow him.
@255
I also wondered if Peggy is pregnant again. Her face looked fuller during the apology scene.
Forgive me if someone else has already mentioned this, and it may have no significance at all….. BUT…
During the breaking the divorce news scene, did anyone notice Don's crisp, white collared shirt w his black sweater against the white chair w the black design? It just jumped out at me. Everyone here seems so in tune w the symbolism of colors and patterns, and I, on the other hand, am not.
Thought I'd throw that out there and see what I get!
Thanks Basket Cases for making this season the best one yet for me!
@407 Mike says… Betty will find herself thinking of Don and her old life and by the end of the series they will be reunited, unless other major events (death or the like) intervenes.
Not according to Matt Weiner, as per this interview in The Daily Beast.
"It’s so unambiguous to me that this marriage is over, but the audience seems to cling to the idea that they should be together because we want to believe in those things. The marriage was not good."
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@407 Mike says… Betty will find herself thinking of Don and her old life and by the end of the series they will be reunited, unless other major events (death or the like) intervenes.
Not according to Matt Weiner, as per this interview in The Daily Beast.
"It’s so unambiguous to me that this marriage is over, but the audience seems to cling to the idea that they should be together because we want to believe in those things. The marriage was not good."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/20…
Thank you, Mr. Weiner. No, I don't want to believe in those things. I want to believe in the show being great again like it was on it high end note.
I also noticed that Peggy's face looked full in the apartment scene – much as it did when she was pregnant. It was the first time I've noticed that since mid/late S1. I doubt she's pregnant….surely not?!?!?
Yeah, I've been noticing over the past couple (?) of episodes that Peggy is starting to look pregnant again, especially in the last few scenes in STDHAS. Ducklings? Good god, I hope MW isn't taking us down that path again. What would be the point?
As far as I know, Duck is the only one Peggy's been sleeping with.
One funny thing struck me – Peggy was dressed in skirt & heels when Don came to visit her in her apt. Does she never wear casual clothes, even on the weekend?
They say a change is gonna come, well it came, winding up a really enjoyable season of MM – Betty had to make changes, so she did,
Don knew change would happen sooner later and he's dealing with it,
I hope Joan's around as a permanent fixture at the new firm and yes Peggy's face did seem a little fuller. Hmmmm? Sorry but to me Trudy's a little annoying ,kinda poodle -yappy-whiny but that's good acting from her to make me feel that about the character. Pete, I like him one minute and not the next,so well see what we see next year. We all like to speculate.I really do enjoy the show and everyone in it. aside from some youtube vids now and then MM is the only TV show I watch and that came about by being curious about the set design. How about a spring episode and two in the summer to hold us over /move the story along until next fall?
Not according to Matt Weiner, as per this interview in The Daily Beast.
And I'm supposed to trust what Weiner says, why? Like he's just going to say, "Yeah, of course this divorce thing is just a dramatic twist to help them see they love each other and need to make the adjustments necessary to be together!"?
Every writer of every popular show fucks with his audience — including, as we have all seen, most especially Mr. Weiner.
Divorce is nothing to applaud (the tendency to do that here makes me ill), especially when there are children and the two still love each other, as these two do. They've been very, very bad spouses, but in ways that are absolutely can be worked on and adressed, and will be when they each realize it is what they want. Come season 6, you'll see.
And if she is or becomes pregnant in real life how do the MM writers deal with that?
If EM, or any of the actresses were to become pregnant in real life, I'd guess they'd just hide it unless it fit into the storyline in some way that made sense with Matt's vision for the show.
#416 Mike – Do you really believe they love each other? I have not, from the very beginning, believed that they were in love. Don's serial cheating, Betty's iciness and contempt . . . not in love with each other.
From the thoughts expressed in this thread and others (and I've read them all,) it's beginning to feel like we, the viewers, were Bobby and Sally on that couch. Mom and Dad are getting divorced. We don't like it. We don't want it to happen and we're acting out against Henry, and previously, Suzanne.
My husband's parents divorced in the mid 60's when he was eight. That scene in the living room cut him like a knife. Since the finale, he's vocalized several scenarios in which Don and Betty could and should stay together.
My parents have been married for nearly 50 years. I say Don and Betts are SO over and need to move forward and find the happiness that clearly does not reside in the Draper household, for themselves and the children.
So I wonder if our own life experiences are coloring what we think and feel is best for these characters? Do you dislike Henry because you witnessed your mom "replacing" your dad as a child? My husband is squarely in that camp. The beauty of this show is be it 1963 or 2009, we can all relate. These are characters created for our entertainment, but they spring from the life experiences of real people and, in many instances for me personally, mirror my own. And that's what I LOVE about it. It feels so real.
Even Weiner acknowledges that he's aware of how many of the audience really "ship" Betty and Don and want them to work it out. Jon Hamm said much the same in his wonderful interview with Roberta, but both Hamm and Weiner have said it isn't meant to be. Weiner was capable of having Pete have a baby with another woman, refuse to have a baby with his wife, and sexually assault a neighbor's Au Pair to bring Pete/Trudy closer. Surely he could have made the writing choice to have the reveal of Don's identity bring Don and Betty together. But he didn't.
Basically the Season Finale has burnt the show down. Sterling Cooper is gone. Out of those ashes has risen SCD&P and it's new team. Don, Bert, Lane, Roger, Harry, Peggy, Pete and Joan have a new beginning. Ken, Paul, etc. may have a new beginning, but it might be offscreen. The show isn't the Mad Men it was 2 seasons ago.
As for Betty, I really don't see how she'll fit into the future of the show. Betty fled to a new Daddy figure to be taken care of. I give up on her because it's clear she isn't meant to grow into anything more substantial no matter how much I, as a viewer, want it to happen. I don't like Henry because he's boring and the depth of his feeling for and commitment to a woman he's only spent about an hour with, and exchanged a few letters with is completely unbelievable. Betty didn't flee her marriage for passion, there is none between the characters. And Christopher Stanley, while a perfectly fine character actor, sure isn't leading man or even secondary lead material. I highly doubt we'll see the show switching from Manhattan for the SCD&P stories to Albany for Betty as political hostess. And if the show jumps ahead a few years, Kiernan Shipka isn't old enough to play teenager. So the Draper family seems to be a casualty of the new beginning as well.
On a romantic front Don will be searching for the perfect brunette to "complete" him. And unfortunately, based on that bedroom scene, it's not likely that he and Betty will have the kind of warm relationship that he and Anna shared.
@Gladwoman 393, Good points, I see where you are coming from and I think we are on the same page.
@419, Laura Lynn, I think you have a point that we all feel a like kids rejecting a step parent and I agree with someone else who furthered that point who said that many of us are Bobby and Sally on the couch and are projecting lots of our own experiences with parents divorcing, our own divorces.
@rl1855 399, you are so money. I co-sign with pretty much all you said 110%
The reason I don't like Betty is because she's a bitch. Plain and simple. I cannot stand her princess like persona and how she looks down her nose at everyone who is not in the same league as her. Don is better off without her and I am thrilled that they are getting divorced. I want the Betty character off of my screen.
To whomever said that their wife thinks Betty is a beard for Henry – wow! I said the exact same thing! That would be so damn funny if he turned out to be gay. What would the blonde little narcisstic princess do then?
And another thing – who leaves their kids for six weeks around Christmas time? If I were Don, I would have put my foot down on that one. Wait until after the holidays for God's sake. Betty is a selfish, self-centered little twerp.
This is without a doubt the highest concentration of Betty haters on one thread. Haters to the left, guys.
Betty does not need the reason of 'passion' to leave Don. Don is a pathological liar, Don is a habitual cheater. He'll take a stewardess just because she's there. He'll spitefully fingerblast Bobbie approximately five metres from his wife and Jimmy Barrett. He'll sneer at his underlings for seven months just because he finally met a man more self-made than he is.
In what universe is Don a catch? You can find Don a compelling character, because he is. You can find him a man who is master in his professional field, because he is. You can find him a repressed, insecure, spiteful WASP with daddy issues and still like him.
See what I did there?
All of these fans, crowing over what they think is the end of Elizabeth Hofstadt? She's a stone cold fox, a fierce bitch. What I feel for her isn't the 'You go Joanie' equivalent. Do I think Henry's a bore and a total mistake? Of course– but that decision is no more stifling or damning than staying Mrs. Don Draper.
Betty needs to use more tools than her sledgehammer from her feminist toolbox, as Joan needs more than her eye-daggers and stilettos and Peggy needs more than her pen–but as she maintains, people have more skills than they use. People who want her to stay one more minute where she's not happy so she can continue to lie to her children and neighbours?
Don and Carla'll be there. Those kids were barely raised by her in the first place. If Sally knew just what a liar her father was, she'd want him gone too.
I can't even imagine how much Henry's adult daughter will love having Betty around. No one is crueler than adult female stepchildren. If Henry's wife died, the daughter will not want Betty to touch anything that was her mom's. If he's divorced, the daughter and ex-wife will plot against Betty. At least that's how it is in real life.
I remember the Junior League woman alluding to the fact that Henry Francis liked pretty women. So, he must have a reputation. And, how much can Betty trust a man who pursued a married woman? Apparently he doesn't respect the institution of marriage. Betty is also afraid of getting older (scenes in the psychiatrist's office and talking to someone about her mom being a "handsome" woman.) There is always a prettier girl around the corner for Henry to become infatuated with.
It was interesting that Don's new apartment is in the Village. That opens up new doors for him.
Mike (#173) – you are SO right!
427 RetroGirl – The AMC recap just says that Don was dropped off at an apartment building in the Village.
I can’t even imagine how much Henry’s adult daughter will love having Betty around. No one is crueler than adult female stepchildren. If Henry’s wife died, the daughter will not want Betty to touch anything that was her mom’s.
Ha ha. Betty as Henry's Gloria. Don't touch the jardinieres, Bets!
I was just rewatching the episode.
Does Roger look like he has jaundice to any one else?
I mean it is New York in December, 1963. Were bad spray on tans even available?
I mean, it really has to be liver trouble.
His tan upsets me for some reason.
The AMC recap just says that Don was dropped off at an apartment building in the Village.
Sally and Bobby are really going to dig living in the Village with Dad in the 1960s. Awesome. Hope Bets relinquishes custody- she really only loves baby Gene anyway.
The Weiner interview: Matt may certainly feel one way about the Drapers now, but as we all now know, he reserves the right to change his mind at a given time, like he did with his plans for Kennedy. So he may have an entirely different perspective in mind by the time he goes back to work.
Don has new digs in the Village?
Maybe he'll cross paths with Midge Daniels in Season Four.
@391 Helen Bishop- I love loved the scene with Pete in his pajama’s too. He can be such a little kid sometimes.
@ 399 rl1856- I totally agree that Don was telling Peggy what he wished he could day to Betty.
@417 hannibal Finn- You can hide a pregnancy. Elizabeth Montogomery hid a pregnancy during the first season of “Bewitched,” and the actress who played Claire Huxtable on “The Cosby Show” hide one. Basically, you have a lot of scenes of the actress sitting behind a desk/something in front of her, and only film her from certain angles.
@425 Maria-Where is Don’s new apartment? I totally missed that.
I was watching '723' again today and I noticed that Duck and Peggy's first 'go around' (and probably subsequent ones as well) was at the Pierre, where Duck said he was taking meetings, because Grey wasn't up to snuff. I wonder if SCDP was set up there to precipitate a run in in season four, perhaps Don inadvertently stealing one of Ducks clients while at the hotel bar?
It certainly sets up an awkward moment if Peggy and someone else (Pete?) run in to Duck.
I've read about 1/2 way through the comments. Just had to say that in this season finale, Roger Sterling became my favorite character on this show. He had the best lines ever. And now that Joan is back on board? Oh, let the fun begin.
I've read about 1/2 way through the comments. Just had to say that in this season finale, Roger Sterling became my favorite character on this show. He had the best lines ever. And now that Joan is back on board? Oh, let the fun begin.
John Slattery delivered.
Surely he could have made the writing choice to have the reveal of Don’s identity bring Don and Betty together. But he didn’t.
Yet. On what world can we be sure that what happened in the very last episode we have seen is done and final, for all time? Is this the first television show you have ever watched? If you think your beloved Matt Weiner is above playing such games, I feel for you.
#337 Melissa:
I can’t help thinking, if Betty really was the whore and snob Don called her, and the narcissist she’s sometimes painted as, she could have gotten out of the marriage simply by exposing Don. There would have been some sort of scandal, but she and the children would have been seen as the innocent victims of a con man, objects of pity and public goodwill.
That's a great point. A coincident possibility (ie, consistent with her not being the whore and snob that Don out of hurt and fear called her) might be that
she might have made use of that knowledge if she truly wanted out of the marriage for good and had no interest in preserving the possibility of a reconciliation!
Do you really believe they love each other? I have not, from the very beginning, believed that they were in love. Don’s serial cheating, Betty’s iciness and contempt . . . not in love with each other.
In the context of the day and each of their expectations going in, yes I believe they love(d) each other. I especially believe they each have voids in their soul that, if they could have moved beyond the icy exterior each had to erect to create the picture of the life they each thought they had provide each other, and allowed the other to see and understand, that each could have gone some way to filling those voids for the other.
It may well be too late for that (I should fess up that I'm certainly playing up my certainty of a reconciliation here somewhat just to counterbalance all the preposterous certainty here that these two episodes constitute an obvious final end to the relationship: that doesn't even track with the way relationships, much less marriages actually end today, to say nothing of the early 1960s). I think Matt Weiner left Don Draper's future utterly up-for-grabs in this hour, except for one point on which one of the Mss. Lipp and at least I agree: Don loves Betty. if you want an explanation for his cheating, look to Jon Hamm's observations; I think they're pretty astute. Broadly, I think Don himself has not accepted the reality of his life to this point, because it was so utterly his own creation and thus contingent. In his world, what he does that is not seen by others cannot be real to them, and is compartmentalized for him. This may very well make him an unlovable person, and he obviously will need to face this fundamental problem before anything along the lines of an authentic life with any other person is possible for him. I have no idea if that will happen. I do know this: Betty is one of three(?) people in the world who know Don's secret, and as long as she chooses to keep that secret, she is choosing to preserve an exclusive connection to Don beyond the one (their children) that they will always have.
I don't know what is going to happen, but I do believe that, based just on what we have seen so far, and given the conventions of television dramas (and spare me the notion that Mad Men is beyond convention: in its dramatic structure this show is UTTERLY conventional), the conclusion that Don and Betty Draper are conclusively history is wildly premature. Indeed, if the present situation indicates any outcome to be more probable than others, a reconciliation of the romantic leads would be far and away the most likely one based on conventional expectations, which again, this show has exhibited no tendency to avoid.
My husband’s parents divorced in the mid 60’s when he was eight. That scene in the living room cut him like a knife. Since the finale, he’s vocalized several scenarios in which Don and Betty could and should stay together.
My parents divorced in the mid-1980s when I was approximately eight. But that doesn't make me (or your husband) wrong. I know for a fact that my parents loved each other and had a deep connection, and I also know that their divorce was necessary. They knoew each other completely and found out they couldn't live with each other. What I see in Don and Betty are two people who have never explored the depth of what their relationship could be, because nether of them truly knows him/herself. That seems to be an almost perfect condition for the growth of a powerful marriage — each person evolving withing a life-long bond. The construction "that marriage is X" is itself a recipe for failure. A working marriage is of necessity a changing, living thing, because people need to be able to change. In my view, that could still happen in this marriage because the person who had the most to hide as far as I can tell is the most committed to preserving the marriage, albeit while believing his relationships outside the marriage are not of consequence. But to this point he has not faced the choice between accepting that they have been destructive and losing the marriage. Now the marriage appears over even though he still never faced that choice. To me, it is obvious that if these two want this marriage to be saved, they can save it. I believe at least one of them does, though I don't know if he can change himself enough to make it work. As for the other, I don't know if she knows what she wants, but I believe in the direction she is heading, she is not going to find it.
As an aside, you should not discount what your husband says merely because of his past experiences (indeed, that experience should cause you to take it more seriously rather than dismissing it and simple cause-and-effect), and you should definitely not take for granted the gravity of that experience nad its effect on him or doubt the effect a realistic portrayal of similar experiences might have on him, or see it as merely an interesting footnote to a discussion of a television program. Divorce (or worse) is a formative experience for a child; why do you think Matt Weiner gives us so many glimpses of Dick Whitman's childhood?
I'm not gonna read through 400+ comments again so I did a "find" search here–has no one brought up Joan's use of "It's perfectly clear" when Roger asked her to translate something she'd written? Same words she used last season when she found out Roger had undermined her authority and put Jane back on the desk!
I really don't think Peggy's pregnant — remember when she asked the college boy if had protection? Peggy is determined to be an ad(wo)man and she must be on birth control.
Peggy and Duck, yech.
You just know that the Pete/Peggy angle will surface again with them sharing a desk. Pete or Don are likely to run into Duck.
Yet at this time, I truly think that Pete is making a commitment to 'Lovely' Trudy, they are closer than any other couple on the show. Pete and Peggy both have a new beginning, they're not going to screw it up with an affair, this opportunity means too much to them, although I'm sure they'll be tempted.
Possible insight — The Brits took away the Sterling Cooper staff's Independence Day in 'Guy Walks…' and had worked at eroding their autonomy all season. In 'Shut the Door', the Yanks took it back.
@Del (#326): Did Roger say to Don (once Henry Francis came up) “I was going to tell you. No I wasn’t.†?
Yes, he did. He followed that with "I thought you knew!", which I took to mean that for once Roger was attempting to be tactful and not bring up such a painful subject around a man who was barely speaking to him in the first place. It seems that he'd be in a good position to know how awful that would be for Don, having recently been through it himself.
@Hell's Belle (#332): Alternate title for Epi 13: Sterling Coo-coup.
Nice. It could even be shortened to just "Sterling Coup".
@Federalist (#348): I have always found it errie that Don keeps [his award] around since it prompted the encounter between him and Adam.
To paraphrase the man himself, it's what people do.
I can't imagine Henry staying in Reno over the holidays. He'll be expected to attend several political functions, not to mention spending Christmas itself with his daughter.
Also, even if Betty sticks with her snap decision to not seek alimony (which I'm not sure she will), I have no doubt that Don will try to provide child support.
@DRush76 (#354): Do they dislike Henry that much?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I've felt that there was something off about Henry all season. It's hard to put a label on, but if I had to choose, I'd say that he comes across as oily, arrogant, and more than a little smug. Which, I'll grant, could also be said of most of the characters at some point in the last few years, but we have the benefit of seeing other sides of them. Every interaction between Henry and Betty feels to me like it has an undertone of "Like me. Like me better than your no-good husband, even though I treat you pretty much the same way he does."
That said, I do think it's better for Betty to get out of her mutually abusive relationship with Don. I'm just not sure running off with Henry is the wisest way to go about it. She seemed to do okay last year when she just kicked Don out. In fact, it forced her to grow quite a lot as a person, and I've hating seeing her regress somewhat over this season. It certainly must be appealing to have Henry offer to make everything all better and support her and the kids. Understandable, even, given her limited options at the time. Still, I'd like to see her show more of the backbone she's had occasionally for the last year and a half. Betty can stand on her own two feet, but thanks to Don, Henry, and Gene (and, yes, society in general) she doesn't realize it.
#357 and #314…I hope I am not too late, now that I am obediently reading the Open Thread (having been frustratingly abroad for work during all of this) but, if there is to be a romantic/culminating relationship between Don and Peggy, I would think it would be too soon for Season 4. If the relationship is to be, it might best evolve—smoulderingly an undercurrent—over several seasons to come. On the other hand, if MW sees fit, it could happen right away (as we might satisfyingly crave) but would move ahead with more and more complexity. Love this blog more than I can say…and fear I am too late this time!!
One more thing. Opening scene. Did anyone notice the bottle of Canadian Club on the dresser when Don awakens in — is it Sally's room? the guest room? Then the bottle appears again on the bedside table when, later in the episode, Don walks into observe Sally sleeping. The whiskey is obviously prominent.
Also, I find it hard to believe Betty couldn't find any evidence or corroboration for Don's affairs. Granted, she probably didn't know the extent to which he'd been unfaithful, but would it have been that hard to subpoena Jimmy and/or Bobbie Barrett? Or any of Don's secretaries, all of whom certainly knew plenty? (Hmm, Peggy on the witness stand…)
No, I read that more as, "I don't want to go there," rather than, "I can't possibly find any proof." If Betty really was a piranha, she'd have plenty of places to bite him, but she'd rather have quick and easy.
Alex, I actually jotted down a note about that.
And another note. The bloody scar left on Archie's face by the horse's knockout punch is very reminiscent of the symbol (The Hobo's Code) left on the Whitman's fencepost:— the symbol for a dishonest man.
"The cliché of the 60’s is that the young wanted to overthrow the establishment. Isn’t that what happened last night? The principles of SC were tired of being treated as pawns, were no longer company men (particularly Pryce), so they decided to stick it to “The Man†as they struck out on their own, led by Don."
I don't really see the founders of Sterling, Cooper, Draper and Pryce as "anti-Establishment". They just strike me as a bunch of white men who were in danger of being completely powerless and decided to get their power back in another way. That's it. They're no longer company men. But the people who will work for them, will be exactly that. And they will go back to being what they were at the beginning of the series.