Don loves Betty. Betty doesn’t love Don.
There is so much to say about The Grown-Ups; about how the Kennedy assassination was juxtaposed against people figuring out who they are and what matters to them. But right now I just want to focus on this one piece of it.
Don loves Betty. Betty doesn’t love Don.
The truth does set you free, in so many, many ways. It can cause terrible pain, it can change everything for worse as well as for better, but it frees you. And when you’re free, your heart can open, and you can love.
Don told the truth, and in telling it, he found he loves Betty.
I am not confused about who and what Don is. The entire time he was confessing to Betty, Suzanne was in the car, so that in every moment of truth-telling, he was simultaneously lying. What’s fascinating about the writing here is, this both matters very much, and does not matter at all. Don is freed of a burden he has carried for more than a decade, and that freedom, however tainted, has opened his heart. Upon looking into an open heart, he finds love for his wife. It is only when his heart is closed that he cannot love her.
Betty is still lying.
Her heart is not open. And she feels nothing when she kisses Don. Hardly a fair test: She kissed him with Henry just there at the edge of her peripheral vision. But the thing here is, Betty has not unburdened herself in a reciprocal way. Not that her “crime” is equivalent; fantasizing about cheating is not the same as serial cheating, but those are real world facts, and the heart is not the real world. In her heart, Betty is a liar. She is locked up, she is holding back, and you can’t be fully present and held back at the same time. The door to the heart is either closed or opened, and Betty’s is closed.
In truth, that’s why “I don’t love you anymore” is usually such a piss poor excuse for ending a relationship. It usually means what Betty means: My heart is closed. The door is locked. And usually, if the door could be unlocked, there is love behind it. That’s what Don discovered.
But because Betty is right; because Don is the one who has lied and cheated, Betty sees no need to unlock her own door, and without that opening, the love has not been set free.
223 Responses to “The truth will set you free”
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I remember a post here last week when one of the sister noted how Don said "Where do you want me to start?" rather than "I don't know where to begin" which was a sign that Don was ready to come clean and not make up his usual excuses. Yet Betty was the one saying "I don't know where to begin" this week before the latest showdown. That, as much as anything else, symbolizes her remaining burden and increasing Don-esq secrecy now.
Betty fell out of love with Don in The Color Blue. That was what that moment in the bathroom and her tight little smile at the dinner was all about. This was a man she didn't know. A man who lied to her for years. She kept up appearances and forgave his infidelity. And for what?
Her whole life has been a lie. Her marriage, her life in the burbs, everything.
Yes, he confessed to her and yes, she felt pity for him. And yes, maybe she thought she could start fresh. But he wants to move on and she is stuck in this place with her anger and bewilderment. And he dismisses her feelings.
Even if Henry was not in the picture, it is unlikely that she could love him.
The question is, what will Betty do about Henry? She knows almost nothing about him. If she goes to him straight from Don, wouldn't she be making the same mistake?
Betty has held herself to a higher standard with Henry. She will not engage in a tawdry affair with him. I think he admires that about her. And he holds out the hope of living differently. Can she live differently without Henry?
New poster. Great website! My speculation–I feel that somebody is going to commit suicide in the final episode. There’s been enough foreshadowing of it. It might be Suzanne’s brother and that would be a way to bring Don and Suzanne back together before the season ends. But, to me, Betty has never been a grown-up. She's always been a child and now that her daddy is dead and, and Don is "dead to her", (and I think she will find out that Henry is just a big tease. He says he wants to marry her only because he knows that she is unavailable. If she pushes him, he will back off and she will feel all alone.) So, I really think it will be Betty who will “try†to commit suicide †Or maybe she’ll just “take a pill and lie down†but, ooops, too many, Carla then finds her unresponsive, and calls Don, and then Betty has to go away for aâ€rest.†Then, at the beginning of next season, she comes back from her “rest†and Don is torn between his obligations to a beautiful wife who is “dead inside toward him†vs. his need to run off and find out who he really is in the crucible of the 60’s. Just my $.02
I am so sad for Don. This whole time he has been afraid that as "Dick" he is unlovable and that Betty wouldn't love him if she knew who he really was and then all of his fears came true. She goes and says she doesn't love him. Yikes!!!! He was being Dick at home (being sweet and helping with the kids) and Betty doesn't care or it is too late or whatever. It's just sad y'all, sad.
Riverdaughter-I was thinking the same thing about Betty making the same mistake twice. She didn't know anything about Don when she married him and now knows almost nothing about Henry.
Eliana-I think Don will be the one that ends up in the hospital. Not that he will commit suicide, but maybe a heart attack or something to do with the pills. There sure was a tight shot on that pill bottle when Don was taking them last night.
I am always at a loss for words at the ending of each episode. How can anyone create such an intense, rich story with so few words? Last night's episode is one that will hang in my mind for days to come. Every character so multi-faceted, every story line simple, yet amazingly complex. Never a Betty fan in the past, I'm now her biggest supporter; hoping she will find herself and, in doing so, pass that strength on to Sally. Remove the whole Don/Betty story and you have equally strong story lines with Pete or with Sal or with Roger or with Peggy…the list is endless. The lesser characters in Mad Men are ten times more interesting than the leads in most other television shows. Thanks for last night's episode and thanks for continuing to provide real quality storytelling and tv!
Riverdaughter, it looks as if your "Betty as Nora" commentary is coming true. On the one hand, I'm cheering Betty on for finally growing up and becoming an adult, even as a chastened Don continues to try and infantilize her. He's still ignoring anything but the simple surface of her feelings and refusing to look at the whole picture. On the flip side, I feel for Don, who will likely take this as Betty refusing Dick Whitman … rather than what it is, which is Betty refusing the lie created by Dick Whitman.
And it was only weeks ago Don had abandoned his family once again for another dark haired mistress, one who's discovery would have destroyed these people he now claims to love, although he didn't "care" about them when he began his latest affair.
But Betty going to Henry, blech?
Aran: I think Betty is only beginning to entertain the possibility of living a different kind of life. In a way, Henry might be good for her. He is not pushing himself on her like Don pushed himself on Suzanne. He is telling her that if she wants a relationship, she will have to come to him.
BUT, his favorite movie is Singin' in the Rain? Ok, granted, he has great taste in musicals. Gene Kelly was a masculine dancer, someone who unlike the elegant Astaire, firmly embraced his working man athleticism. But Singin' in the Rain was where Kelly put young ingenue Kathy Seldon on a ladder and sang You Are My Lucky Star to her. Isn't that sort of the kind of life she has been trying to get away from? Does she really want to get up on that pedestal again?
I dunno, I found that whole offer from Henry both optimistic and confusing. It is too soon for them to even think about marriage. I hope she realizes this. But maybe he did it because she is making herself seem like such a prize that he can't have her any other way.
Anyway, there's something about that movie that we need to pay attention to.
So far, I like Henry and I think he's quite attractive.
Is he Don/Dick drop dead gorgeous? No, but so what?
I felt exactly the same way as TaraB (#4) – Don's greatest fear has come true. Even though his behavior has been appalling, I feel bad for him. In a very important way, he picked exactly the wrong person to love and marry – the person who he has needed to pretend for. There are obviously women in the world (including Anna and Suzanne) who are fine with Dick, who don't need him to be Don. But Betty does, or thinks she does. I don't agree at all that Betty showed anything grown-up in this ep – she acts like a child and runs to "Daddy" (Henry) when things go wrong. As several people have noted, she doesn't even know Henry (and he doesn't know her!) – she just needs someone to rescue her because she's not really an adult and doesn't want to pick up the pieces of her life and face the reality of her situation. I'm not a Betty hater at all, but she is just as flawed as Don. I'm so intrigued by the potential of this situation – there are so many ways this story line can be developed in the coming season. However, I can't see Weiner and company going with something cheesy like a suicide attempt or hospital stay – how daytime soapy – not their style at all.
Betty would miss the money too much. I don't think Henry is well to do, is he? She likes the trips to Rome (not just the movies!) the fur stole, the Cadillac, the Lincoln (her Dad's) she drives now instead of her station wagon. Not sure she'd ever want to be the "divorcee" (remember the neighbor in season 1) even for a minute. I'd like her to see a glimpse of the real Henry to open her eyes that he's a human being, not just an alternative to Don who hasn't (yet) hurt her.
#8 – Singing in the Rain is Betty's favorite movie, not Henry's. Still a great observation about the pedestal. As observed elsewhere it is also about the end of an era.
Aside from the obvious Henry-as-escape-route, I find him a better partner as he has pushed Betty to take responsibility for her actions and act like an adult. They have also talked about their pasts openly and casually.
I still think Don doesn't love Betty. He fell in love with his own fantasy the night he came clean. Now she's supposed to keep on playing, because he tossed out his other options. Betty is just finding out she has other options.
But frankly, Don bores me. More Pete, please.
Stagemom: I don't know about that. What good are furs and cars and houses and trips when you are merely another status symbol to your husband? I'm betting that Betty feels no more important to Don than his Caddy with a flat tire. This is the time when she has to reevaluate whether those material goods are important to her and whether she wants to be one of them. She does have another house to go to. We can assume that Don will give her some money or she can simply take it from the locked drawer. She might be poor(er) but she would own herself. That's got to be worth something.
Much like the coming woman's movement – Betty's on the rise. Me likey.
I think Don is in denial – about Betty, about reality. He told several people "it's going to be alright." Even Peggy about the Aquanet ad campaign. I can't tell if he really believes everything will be ok, or if he just doesn't get the gravity of what has happened, or is he really just trying to convince himself that all will be right, when everything he has and the world at large is shifting?
We know from a past episode that the NY divorce laws would not favor Betty as the divorce seeker. Her family lawyer warned her that she would recieve no money and, possibly, lose custody of the children.
However, Betty could blow the whistle on Dick/Don as an army deserter, so, for once, she holds all the cards.
Deborah, I don't think Betty is lying. I think there's been a series of coincidental events that have knocked her out of her housewife daze to now see the light:
1. Meeting Henry and seeing "what could be"
2. Finding out about Don's deception (and she STILL doesn't know about his serial cheating; in her mind it's limited to Bobbie)
3. The Kennedy assassination and Don's continuing dismissal of her emotions.
National tragic events often lead to people re-thinking their lives. I know many people who got married, switched careers, or made some other major change after 9-11. I count Betty in that same category of people. It's like surviving cancer or a heart attack on a global scale. Anything disatisfactory gets chucked to make way for what looks more meaningful on the horizon because our mortality and life's brevity become glaringly obvious. I don't think Betty sees anything valuable in her relationship with Don anymore.
Did anyone else notice the smile on Betty's face when Henry said he wanted to take her to see her favorite movie? She finally felt someone was paying attention to her feelings, and that felt really good to her.
You shouldn't expect too much of Betty. When her father called her a house cat, he hit the nail on the head. She wants The Package – successful husband, smart children, beautiful home and clothes – that was sold to her generation. She expects to be the center of her husband's universe, not have to compete with other women or deal with his cheating.
Don has thrown way too much at her for her to handle. Henry is an escape route. He at least has access to the world Betty imagines – Pocantico Hills being just an example. To Henry, she can be an adored wife again and mingle with wealth and power. Her own kind.
This episode made me sad. I know I should be all "GO BETTY" and though I'm sort of proud of her, and I should feel like "Seves you right!" towards Don, I feel so bad for him. It made me so sad to see him, looking all Dick Whitman, with his hair parted and Betty telling him she doesn't love him. I wonder though if that is truly how she feels or if it is the shock from learning the truth and then the Kennedy assasination and the Oswald shooting just putting her over the top. I even had several dreams about Mad Men last night all about Don and Betty getting divorced, fighting over who keeps the kids, Carla being on Don's side, Don hiring Sal back. So weird.
I hope Don isn't the suicide. Maybe it is just how sad his back story is, or maybe it's because he is the main protagonist but I just can't stay mad at him and always feel sad for him.
I am worried about Betty too. I hope she doesn't go off with Henry, not that she needs to stay with Don, but Henry seems like bad news. I mean I know Don is a big cheater, but seriously, what kind of man hits on a very obviously pregnant woman, meets her husband shortly thereafter and then after having a handful of conversation and a few kisses wants to marry that woman. I know that Don has been really wrong for his adultery as have all the others but what kind of guy tries to steal another guy's wife like that, for keeps, especially when those people have small children. We all know that Don has been a cad, but unless Henry and Betty have had some serious off-line conversations, he has no idea what kind of husband Don is and it takes some serious gall to try to just whisk someone's spouse away and for good. Also, though I've heard the occasional story about strangers meeting, getting married shortly thereafter and having a good marriage, I think those are the exceptions that prove the rule. You don't marry strangers! Betty should have already learned that lesson and he's already had one failed marriage so with two failed marriages between them and a his having at least one off-spring who is max 5-10 years younger than Betty, it all adds up to bad news. Plus, unless Betty made copies of Don's papers or steals the whole box, how can she prove that Don is really Dick Whitman, it'll be her word against his, Anna will probably back him up. Add to that thee fact that she sought psychiatric help, which is still held against people now in some circles (try getting a security clearance with a history of seeking treatment) would come out in the divorce proceedings and unless she could get one of Don's ex's to talk, she is going to have a hard time proving his adultery. And if she takes up with Henry she will look like the adulterer. I also doubt that Don would take to kindly to allowing another man to raise his children. I have a sneaking suspicion that if Betty left him without leaving for another guy, he might let her take the kids, but if it is obvious she is off to another man, I think he would fight for those children, especially given his experience with step-parents. For all of his faults, Don loves those kids and I don't think he'd want to really lose them. What a mess. Holy run-ons and overlong paragraph Batman. I had a lot to get out of my system. The finale and the wait for next season will be a DOOZY>
#8: I was half expecting Betty to say that "Roman Holiday" was her favorite movie, for obvious reasons.
I predicted last week that the Kennedy assassination would coincide with a final Draper breakup, to parallel Don's losses at home with the larger end of the Don Draper era in society. I was off by a week, and it wasn't a final breakup- but it was a final emotional breakup, to be certain.
I don't think that Betty simply needed Don to be "Don Draper". If that was the case, she would have kept her mouth shut and try to continue the life they had been life. I don't think it's about Betty needing Don. I think it's Betty being angry that Don has never been his true self to her. It could also be possible that Betty is angry at herself for marrying him and staying with him in the first place, despite her father's warnings. And although Don has finally been truthful, it's too late. Betty has been falling out of love with Don long before she had discovered the contents of that box. Now that the truth is out, she sees no reason to continue the lie anymore.
"You shouldn’t expect too much of Betty. When her father called her a house cat, he hit the nail on the head. She wants The Package – successful husband, smart children, beautiful home and clothes – that was sold to her generation. She expects to be the center of her husband’s universe, not have to compete with other women or deal with his cheating."
Being a housecat is what Betty fears that she has become. And she doesn't like it. I suspect that she has never liked it . . . hence, her attempt to restart her modeling career. This would also explain her negative reaction to Gene labeling her a housecat in her dream.
#21: Practical strangers have married before on this show- Roger and Jane didn't know each other too long before they got married, though look how well that's going now. And virtually every marriage on the show is between people that are emotional strangers to each other.
Oh and sorry for all of the questions I posed with no question marks. When I get excited, question marks and most punctuation outside of periods go out the window.
Betty has always acted like a child. In Season 1, when she started seeing the psychiatrist, and Don spoke to the doctor, this is what he had to say. "She seems consumed by petty jealousies and overwhelmed with every day activities," he says. "We're basically dealing with the emotions of a child here."
She was raised to be the housecat her father told she was. Yes, she may have gone to college, but was that for her MS degree? I don't think she took her studies seriously, and she has never exhibited anything that remotely shows she has any interest in the education of her children. Betty believes that she has been the perfect wife and by the standards of the day, she has been in many ways. She keeps a beautiful house, tends to the children, is active in the "right" women's clubs and takes care of her looks. She is the ultimate ornament for a successful businessman working in the city. Having grown up in suburban CT during the 60s and 70s, I can tell you that Betty could pass for my Aunt Janet.
If Henry had not made the offer of marriage to Betty, she never would have gone home and told Don she didn't love him anymore. She now has a way out. He was accepting of her children and made Betty the entire focus of his offer , right down to her favorite movie. THIS is the life Betty craves, she WANTS to be the center of her husband's life. While the role of a politician's wife would be perfect for the superificial Betty that revels in fine clothes and attention, I think she will find it as unsatisfying as her current life. Betty needs to do something for herself, she just never learned how. Sally, though, will have no such problems.
I'm wondering whether Betty will fight for custody of the kids…. or not.
I'm sorry — I hated Betty in this episode. (At least, that's what I feel about her right now.) I'm trying to think back to a scene where ice DIDN'T run through her veins.
She's cold to her kids, to her friends (remember Sara Beth?) to her father in his final hours, to her albeit-whiny brother and pretty-nice sister-in-law, to her husband (OK, you can say with good reason) and now she's entertaining yet another fairy tale escape, one that keeps her in the exact same "Rapunzel's Tower" as her current marriage? She and Henry have spoken to each other for all of about 15 minutes, all told, and now she's got this idea that they're in love. She put herself in that gilded cage as much as Don did.
I'm not feeling the Betty love.
I know Don has brought so much of this on himself, but I feel very sad for him that his greatest fears were NOT in anticipation. They came true.
(Have to actually do real work today, so I'll join you all later tonight! Happy MM obsessing. I can't wait to read all your comments. — gh)
@ mary #16
I think Don is in denial – about Betty, about reality. He told several people “it’s going to be alright.†Even Peggy about the Aquanet ad campaign. I can’t tell if he really believes everything will be ok, or if he just doesn’t get the gravity of what has happened, or is he really just trying to convince himself that all will be right, when everything he has and the world at large is shifting?
*nods agreement* Don has always been about denial, about trying to shut out the reality of things (he's an adman, after all). Even after the enormous revelation of last week, he's back to the same pattern. This is a reality that's too big for him deny, but he continues to try. How right that he and Peggy, the two who have shut out the most earth-shattering personal realities (it's the source of their bond), would find themselves in the same place at the end. Except that Peggy finally gets up and goes to watch the funeral, while Don locks himself in his office. In the end, she can face the reality (a good sign that she won't travel his path), but he can't. How sad is Peggy's face when she sees Don lock himself away. She understands why, but can't do anything about it.
I hope Don doesn't attempt suicide. They have been hinting suicide.
#27, I don't think Betty would have to fight for the kids. I doubt Don would want to be their sole parent. Remember how he was relieved in S2 when he was living at the Roosevelt?
Also, courts generally favor the mother, especially in the 60s, if she is the one who files. I believe NY may have had a 1 year waiting period, though.
Great acting this week by Jon Hamm. I could feel his love for Betty when he looked at her on the dance floor of Margaret's wedding. The tide has shifted. Betty was so in love with him during Season 1, and now he loves her. I felt o sorry for Don by the end of this episode. My husband and I speculated at the end of last week's episode: could Don stop cheating because now he has found acceptance? Was he a cheater b/c he never felt deserving of his life? Or was he a cheater simply b/c of his libido? Now that Betty has accepted his past, and he's free, would he stop cheating? The orphan from "Oliver" had found love and acceptance? Everything is once again in flux b/c after this episode whatever acceptance he had from Betty for that brief time (Oct. 31- Nov. 25, 1963) is once gone, and maybe in a worse way: remember he told Betty the he couldn't believe she had ever loved him- he could think he was right all along… he was never deserving of her love or his life.
#27 Gypsy Howell: I also hated Betty in this episode, and I am not someone who has hated her all along. Rather, I have pitied her. She was so cold. It's finally in sync . . . and she was so cruel to him.
I said in the open thread exactly what Deborah states here – Don loves Betty, but not vice versa, although I didn't express it nearly as well as she does here.
I don't think, though, that Betty's secret is the tryst during the Cuban Missle Crisis or her emotional affair with Henry, it is her dissatisfaction with her life. Betty can't even completely express what she is feeling, because she only partially gets it, but for several episodes now she has been expressing what she can, and Don doesn't get it.
I really think Don always assumed the distance between them was caused his need to keep up the "Don Draper" persona and never let her know the truth. He thinks that since he told her the truth and she didn't immediately reject him – and it has been almost a month now – he was home free. But that distance was also caused by Don's treating Betty like a child. You can't love someone you don't respect, and to Don, Betty is an object, a possession, to be protected. We saw that in how he treated her when she was seeing the psychiatrist, when she wore the two-piece bathing suit, and of course last night when she reacted so strongly to the assassination (after all, Betty's life has really come apart in the last few months – she lost a parent, had a baby and found out her marriage was based on a lie).
Betty told him she hated her life after they got back from Rome (where the fire between them was so real that I have to doubt that she has lost all her feelings for him), but he didn't hear her. She knows his secret, and understands him better, but he still does not understand her.
I will be surprised if she runs to Henry – she was dubious of the marriage idea as soon as he proposed it (almost like Duck proposed stealing both Peggy and Pete) – what did she say "I have three children," as if Henry was not thinking this through, especially since his own children are grown. The contrast between their cars (interesting that hers was black and Henry's was white) shows that materially Henry cannot make her happy. I think, although it remains to be seen, that Betty is understanding her role as the wife/mother, a role she would just recreate with Henry, is what is not enough, but she is floundering.
I have hope that this is not the end for Don and Betty, but I also think Betty had to say what she did – it is the first step in her honesty. Running to Henry was the act of a child. Coming home to confront Don for the second time was the act of a grownup.
Well of course Don is in denial through most of the episode. He keeps saying "Everything is going to be okay," because at this point he has got to believe that that's true. It's something I found myself saying a lot toward the end of my last relationship because I was too afraid to face even the possibility of things not going well.
I definetly agree that the statement, "I don't love you anymore," is synonymous to "I'm giving up on this," I'm not so sure that Betty's ever really been in love with Don. I don't think there's ever been a scene in any episode where I've watched it and thought 'Wow, she really loves him.'
Obviously Don hasn't been doing much to help his marriage lately but it was so very sad watching him slink off to the office to morn his marriage.
#32 CPT_Doom. "Running to Henry was the act of a child. Coming home to confront Don for the second time was the act of a grownup."
Very good analogy!!
I wonder if Jane will be the one who attempts suicide. It would be an immature thing to do, but she might just stumble into it, which would give Roger a shot at Joan again.
I don't get this "Don loves Betty" idea. I really, really don't. He's completely in denial and not facing reality. Part of that reality is that Betty is cold to him and the children and neither of them really understands the other. Does a person who loves someone continually contradict everything they say without even trying to listen to them? That's what Don did the whole episode. That's not love.
Listen I feel for the guy, but he's not in love with his wife and he's certainly not "free," whatever that means.
I don't think Betty is growing up. Her girlish fantasy of a perfect life with Don has been pierced with the revelations about his past, so she wants to leave and try to find it with someone else. And like a child, she only cares about her own happiness. What about her children? It is ironic that once she gains some understanding into Don and some power in the relationship, she decides to bail. For all of Don's faults, I cannot help but feel sympathy for him. I don't feel any for Betty, not anymore.
#36 Donny Brook Maybe he isn't actually in love with her from our 3rd person perspective b/c he treats her like an obsession or a "trophy"- but don't you think that he believes he is in love with her during this episode especially b/c of his perceived acceptance by her?
I honestly thought, when Betty came into the living room in her coat (before she went to meet Henry), when she took that step toward Don, I truly believed the next words out of her mouth would be "I'm leaving you. I want a divorce," whatever. That there was an extra layer of exposition where we see that Henry claims actually to want to marry her, almost surprised me a little.
Yesterday was my mom's birthday, and I was travelling, got home late, and wound up catching the 11pm rerun of the show. I went to bed pretty much right afterward, and had a long, complex Mad Men-populated 9/11 dream. Even while watching the show, I remembered the sense of urgency, of "life is too goddamn short not to be doing what I want, right now." I remember a writing class that had had to be postponed for weeks, because the building it was set to take place in was downtown and hadn't got the all clear yet, but when it stared, the room was full. Fuller than you would ever expect something as frivolous as a writing class to be, at a time like that. Full of people who had said to themselves, fuck it, I'm not ever going to have this moment in my life again, not ever. I need to get my ass in gear.
It seemed almost inevitable to me that Betty was gone, or would try to be. The only thing that surprised me was that it took her a whole extra five minutes of episode time to get there.
I don't think Don was ever in love with Betty. I think that Don was in love with the idea of Betty. Just as Betty was in love with the idea of him and his lovemaking skills.
But Betty is finally learning to be honest with herself and Don. When will Don face the truth? I think that when it comes to facing the future, Betty will be able to do so a lot better than Don. Her reaction to the assassination, in compare to Don's, made me realize this.
Why is it that Betty is a lot better at expressing the reality of their marriage than Don is?
Psst, I'm Stagmom, not Stagemom. LOL! My last name is Stagiano. I got a kick out of that.
Another great thread, Lipp sisters!
It's funny how this show is helping me go through a bitter breakup right now. I look at Don and Betty and see a lot of what I've gone through…only the best shows can hold up a mirror and make you look into yourself. Great stuff.
Great point, DRush76 (#42). One of my fav lines from last week's show was from Betty showing dominance in the marriage…"You don't get to ask any questions." I think I hooted out loud at the confidence she showed to be able to say that. Imagine anyone at Sterling Cooper being able to tell Don to back off…such fun!!
#27, gypsy, yes.
You're getting at something I've been thinking about since I turned off the TV last night:
Who doesBetty love? And why?
I have to wonder if the suicide thing is a red herring though. It almost seems too obvious. I mean Pete said the phrase with emphasis it seemed.
Hell's Belle: Betty is lying about her fantasies. She hasn't told Don she has flirted with having an affair. She hasn't told Don about her feelings much at all. She's never really expressed her rage or her sadness; she's been cold, not hot.
Speaking of foreshadowing: Betty first met Henry when he was returning from Nelson Rockefeller's marriage to Happy Rockefeller, who left her husband to marry Rocky and lost her children as part of her divorce decree. Betty even comments on it. Now we've come full circle, and Betty may soon find herself in Happy's shoes.
I haven't seen mention of this, perhaps I missed it, but I was struck by a line in last week's episode in the "confession" when Don says to Betty that he grew up poor, and she comments something to the effect that she knows he "doesn't understand money". I'd thought of that too, before, when he puts all of the cash in a drawer (hoarding, reminds me of some older folks I know who grew up very poor), and he makes comments about Betty spending money on the living room redo, etc. Plus, for all of Don's money + the buyout money (whatever became of that and does Betty even know about it…?), they definitely live in a home not really up to their social standing.
In the same episode, Betty sits behind her father's desk very competent looking – she addresses both the lawyer and her brother from a place of power behind the desk – and now has a house, an asset, that is worth something.
What am I getting at? Betty -does- understand money, or is obviously used to having it, unlike Don. There's just something to this to me, that perhaps suggests that Betty may not be as vulnerable to being left with nothing if there is a divorce or split, and she knows it.
I agree Betty is hiding, and I don't think she has any idea what a mature relationship is like – she's confused, searching, and trying to find her power, part of which may be financial.
#39
On the AMC website, MW echos your comments about life events that change us forever. The Kennedy assassination along with the Oswald shooting is/was one of the larger than life events that are stop, pause, mourn, review and change moments (just like 9/11). MW states that this is the cathartic moment for Betty where her own life is examined and she can't stop crying from not only the emotion of the moment but also the reflection of her life. Her response to the Oswald shooting, "WHAT is going on here?" It was almost as if she was shouting that to herself about her own existence. She is engulfed in it and Don does NOT hear her nor give her emotions/thoughts any merit. He is too deep in his own "denial" and survivor mode that everything will be alright. He can't go to ANY place that is vulnerability or maybe he won't be able to get back. Keep on moving fast enough and just go to work. "It will shock you how much it never happened". She realizes that the "buck stop here" and she does not want to live this way any longer. Does that mean the moment will last? Will Betty take the final leap or will time allow for the rawness of emotions to subside?
to answer your question DRUSH is because Don likes the fantasy of everything being perfect. Dont get me wrong so does Betty, but Betty finally grew up and realized you cant have your cake and eat it too. And I agree that Betty could never be Mona. She is too self absorbed to behave and act like Mona did last night (a huge shout out to Talia Basalm great acting last night!) but also I think deep down Betty did love Don, but his lying and cheating, and worst of all still treating her like a child and pretending that they are perfect happy little family was the breaking point for Betty. She needs to stop living a lie. However I am still concerned about Henry proposing marriage. They hardly know each other and I think Betty is starting to realize that this mistake with Don could very well happen again. But atleast she knows now that, that option of getting married again is there, maybe she doesnt want it right now. Maybe she wants a relationship that she didnt have with Don…hence the talking of favorite things, not lying to one another. Betty needs a fresh start in a relationship, to get to know Henry and then maybe if the time is right marry him. I dont think it will solve anything though. Betty was miserable without Don, but still managed to run her household, while Don was off in Cali screwing Joy, and totally abandoning his responsibilities but quickly realized with the help of Ana, that he does needs his family and that he does love them. What Don and Betty need to do is go down to Cali visit Ana, and get some good advice on how to communicate with each other. Look and Trudy and Pete, it looked like they were going down the DON/Betty route and when he opened up to her about his affair and his work, Trudy forgave him and decided to work out their marriage, and look at them, perfectly fine, perfectly normal and they TALK with each other about THEIR needs and problems…something Don never did with Betty.
Anne B.
Great Comment-
Who does Betty love? And why?
Some would say herself, some would say no one, some would say Don, some would say Henry and maybe a few would say her children (although most posters seem to relegate her to the queen of ice cold moms). Not sure. I hope we find out by the end of Season 3……..perhaps the sad, cold truth is that she will never figure that out. She is mourning what she has determined is her life in this episode at the same time attempting to stand up and define it. Perhaps the best time to do that is NOT under the umbrella of tragedy.
There are moments when we are shaken enough to think, "What is going on here?" and "What really does matter to me?"
The Kennedy assasination was one of those things. 9/11 was another. (btw, I have a cousin whose wedding had to be postponed for a month due to 9/11. I should call and ask him if he watches MM and saw last night.)
I've lived through two deaths like that in 'private life' that also had that effect on a large number of people.
That is what is happening with Betty. She might have been willing to soldier on, perhaps for lack of alternatives. But, when the JFK assasination comes, she has to ask herself what her life is about. Because it can end suddenly and senselessly.
However, yes, she knows nothing about Henry. That is just a silly fantasy.
btw, my mother was exactly this kind of middle to upper class Republican (married to a man who came from a blue collar Democrat family.) She was more visibly shaken and tearful about the Kennedy assasination than I remember my dad being. (My dad was really upset by Bobby's, but a huge part of that was that he was the landlord for Bobby's California campaign headquarters.)
Long story short – I didn't find Betty's tears to be over the top. She had just had a baby. Jackie had just had a baby. It would be too easy to feel vulnerable. And politics doesn't count here. (Sort of like they didn't count for about a week after 9/11.)
I saw more evidence of Betty's narcissism last night than before.
Last week, she had seemed almost strong, if guarded — until she touched Don's shoulder as he cried. It was as if she were amazed that he had feelings at all.
But last night, it was the magical-thinking thing again. Betty has used this device before, both as a kind of divining rod (with Captain Awesome in the bar), and to push her husband away (Jimmy Barrett's ad comes up on TV: Betty goes to the phone and tells Don not to come home).
Betty's world communicates with her in signs and symbols. Maybe it's all that time she spends stuck in that house, in her head; maybe it's because she is a child herself; but she appears to receive signals not from experience, but from … TV? Weather. A dropped comment from a neighbor who is probably taking drugs.
What was last night's catalyst? Oswald (the man she doesn't know, who took away the President she didn't even like) gets shot, as she's watching. And this says to her — what? "Betty, do something"?
Evidently, yes.
I don't know if Betty is mourning. I don't see her feeling much at all. She doesn't hug her kids, she never even feeds them; we see her standing across from them, always; never sitting with them. And with Don, well … she may as well be in another room.
Even with Henry: she basks in his affection. She does not return it. Never a question about his life, his kids, anything.
What does Betty want? It's really time to ask.
Great Post! The truth will set you free was so beautifully played out last night.. The truth set Don free, but imprisoned Betty. Don has opened himself while Betty has been “stewing” in her mind the events. I agreed with one commentator last week that said, “sometimes you just never tell anyone certain things”……so true because once it is out, life will change forever. Just like the Kennedy assasination, once something like that happened, life changed forever. You can’t take it back. Innocence and trust erased.
I don't know where to post this, but when Duck was mentioning a Monte Cristo sandwich to Peggy, I was thinking how a nice, Catholic girl in 1963 would never eat meat on a Friday!
Yes! Isn't it funny, Rakesh, that one of the dorkiest guys in the show (with the name Duck, for goodness sake!!) is the most romantic and thoughtful people in the show?!?!? I love the snippets of Peggy/Duck and am dying to see more.
This sounds funny but I ask myself, "would I love Don?" Granted, Don/Dick is amazing and fascinating. I'd want to work with him or be friends but I wouldn't love him. I certainly wouldn't trust him.
Jeez, is this beat up on Betty day? The girl can't do anything right. Let's look at it from Betty's perspective:
- Her mother raised her to be an ornament. She was taught that there was no greater goal in life than to be a wife and mother.
- She's not stupid. She reads. She knows how to command. She can speak Italian. She's sophisticated. Her father thought she had wasted her life. Maybe he had a point.
- She finds her friends, her life, the burbs, BORING. I'm sorry, but have we heard Mona complain? Trudi? Francine? Look, some people actually like that kind of life and they aren't capable of desiring anything more. Betty isn't one of them but she didn't know that at the time she signed the contract. No one knows. Now she does.
- Her husband has a madonna/whore complex. He doesn't treat her as a grownup woman. Furthermore, while she's been suffering (almost) in silence, he's been lying to her about everything of fundamental importance.
- So now she's fallen out of love with him because she realizes that she's just another one of Don Draper's belongings and she wants to have a real relationship with a real person and all we can say is that Betty is cold? Selfish? Narcissistic?
Doesn't anyone remember the beautiful Betty who tried so hard to be the perfect wife to Don, who leaned on his shoulder and said they made a great team, who yearned for him night after night, who blew off that guy who used to ride with them, who wanted to take care of her father? But Betty's concept of self is so at odds with where she is now and who she's supposed to be that is hard for her to love anyone. How can you love when you are so hurt and confused and when your whole life has been dictated by others? Has she even had the power to make a decision to love? Even her last child was kind of forced on her. Here, you're a pregnant woman, mother it.
I am perfectly willing to give Betty a well deserved break. She tried playing by the rules. It just didn't work out and not all of it is her fault. When she's allowed to grow up and go through her own maturation phase after the arrested development as suburban trophy wife, we may see a Betty who is warmer, sweeter, more confident and loving.
#39 and #51: Agreed. My earlier post pretty much echoes your thoughts.
Deborah- thanks for the clarification. I think Betty has reason to be closed up with Don. I wonder if she'd be that way with anyone else?
@16 and others on denial: yes! The limp refrain, repeated by Don and others, is that everything will be okay. Of course everything is not okay and we've now come completely full circle from the Lucky Strike pitch meeting in the pilot. Remember what Don says then? He says "Happiness…is a billboard on the side of the road that screams with reassurance that whatever you're doing is okay. You are okay."
Well, not anymore. On the phone Roger asks "Is everything okay?" Mona laughs.
The episode has a "day the music died" feel to it. Or where have you gone Joe Dimaggio? (Aside on music–I'm shocked at its absence. Where are the era defining songs? Think of the use of Caravan in the pilot. Where has that gone?)
In all (most?) of the other episodes that coincide with momentous historic events, the characters begin to joke about it immediately. It's part of the Mad Men franchise, and it's interesting that the characters take the more solemn tack here for the first time. Pete is especially righteous. Roger says to Joan, "No one else is saying the right thing about this." And Joan replies, "There's nothing funny about this."
The hot versus the cold, extreme temperature, extreme reactions. The cold blues worn by Betty, Margaret on the day before her wedding, and Mona and Trudy on the day of the wedding. (Oh yeah, Roger calls Joan "Red" and she talks to him on a blue phone. Hot and cold coincidence? I think not!) There's that great shot, when Betty comes out of the rest room. She sees Don and Henry, she's in blue. Both these men see blue, but to each of them it means something different. This shot embodies that beautifully.
"Do you want to cancel it or not?" Mona asks earlier. Looks like Betty answers yes.
Trudy's in denial about Pete's prospects at the beginning. Way too pollyannaish in the face of cold, hard facts. Pete should leave she comes to see that too.
I agree with whoever said that the characters watch too much television in the episode. I understand the magnitude of the event. And I understand this is our culture–events happen and we want to know why, we want analysis, we want to know what it means. Look at this blog after each episode! And in that era, Americans only had a few news programs to help them with that. But watching people watching television is not good television.
Women may correct me on this, but one of the main successes women have achieved over the last 40 years is that they are financially independent from men and they no longer need "providers." I couldn't help but think back to Milton the lawyer's comment to Betty about Don: "Is he a good provider?" When I envision Betty leaving Don, I hope it's because she realizes there's a more fully realized life out there for her, one in which she can provide for herself and find fulfillment. Or at least strive to. But with Henry…it's like she's simply found another "provider." Bleh.
Another motif throughout the season has been these scenes within a scene, usually involving Don looking into another room. The very first flashback sets this up. And it's echoed the second to last scene, when Don stops before entering the kitchen. Very chilling.
I'm a newbie here (late to the party), but after several hours' worth of reading, I think this is where I should have been all along! Two things first: basketcases, please forgive if I step on your posts today–my eyes are blurry after reading in detail on Open Thread, but I'll do better next time; and secondly: Deborah and Roberta, I've made brief forays (as a reader) on your site before and I've always been impressed. The quantity of the quality is unsurpassed, and since those two conditions are rarely found together, I worship at your feet.
@Roberta: In your "The Truth Will Set You Free" analysis, I thought the metaphor of the "locked heart" was so spot on (and how I wish I'd known that little gem in some past relationships –it woulda' made things a lot more understandable).
A line that really jumped out at me: "…and that's why 'I don't love you anymore' is usually such a piss poor excuse for ending a relationship." Wow. Could spend several hours/decades thinking about that line.
In the meantime, some of my random thoughts –(probably already brought out by other Basketcases, so just scroll on by if so):
Betty, although she's growing up, is still just in those mid-to-late-teen years. She'll get there, but she's still looking for Daddy (Henry) to make her feel better, protect her, and make this scarey old world feel safe. Don could always do it for her money-wise, but Henry, like a good Daddy, can perceive what his little girl needs when she comes crying to him in the dark because a nightmare has occurred. Like a Daddy (or MommY) would tell a frightened child to soothe them: "Think of that time we danced and sang in the rain with our umbrellas…etc"., well you get the idea. Gets their little minds off the monsters. Cut to Betty's slow, child-like smile.
Is it a law of attraction that two similarly-flawed people always have to end up together? I can't think in all of TV Land of any two more "emotionally restrained, feelings-hiding people. That's why both of them have such flat affects all the time. They've been hiding from their emotions for so long, they don't know how to comfort themselves — let alone each other. Example: " Everything's going to be all right" –a phrase we can shorthand as "DD's only words in the English language that he knows to say — no matter what the crisis, no matter who the person." Eg: Said to the anxiety-ridden prison guard awaiting baby news; said to Sal upon firing him; said to ….(fill in with your own memory here….).
Didn't MW say (way back when) that this was a story about falling in love for the first time? That gives me hope. I hope that Don and Betty will do that — with each other. Still a long ways to go with twists and turns on that perilous journey, though.
"Well of course Don is in denial through most of the episode. He keeps saying 'Everything is going to be okay,' because at this point he has got to believe that that’s true."
Because it is true.
In the immediate aftermath of tragedy, it's easy to feel like everything is ruined and life can't possibly go on. But life does go on — changed, perhaps, but not destroyed altogether. The country lost their handsome young president, but they'll get a new president, older and less flashy, and slowly normalcy will return; Betty might've lost Don Draper but she still has Dick Whitman, and he might be a better husband anyway.
To me, accepting that truth seem like the very opposite of denial. Don isn't closing his eyes to conflict and pretending that everything is perfect like he did back in season 2. Instead, he's finally accepting what Anna tried to teach him at the end of last season — that on the other side of the apocalypse there will still be a life to look forward to.
This is just a general agreement with riverdaughter, don't have time to go into detail presently, but I think the term narcissist is being used rather loosely, at least related to the full psych aspect.
selfishness is not necessarily narcissism. And Betty may be detached but that's not the same either.
I still think there will be a suicide or attempt. If Betty + sleeping pills +wine is too cheesy (and I really do not think it is), then perhaps Suzanne's brother will kill himself and his loss will bring Suzanne back to Don and create an opportunity for a Suzanne/Betty confrontation, and/or an opportunity for Don to again confront his feelings about Adam's suicide. Because Suzanne's brother and Adam were so clearly related characters I think there is more to explore there.
On another note, I suspect the Peggy/Duck relationship is the relationship that Peggy will have for the rest of her life. Peggy doesn't get her self-respect from her "romantic" relationships, altho she certainly needs and gets self-esteem from being desired. She gets self-respect it from her success at work and her ability to be self-reliant.
@59 Riverdaughter: Right on! I'm in camp Betty too.
And the back and forth of this thread drives home these points, to me anyway:
MW et al are brilliant writers. So many shows are ham-handed when it comes to character portrayal. Not so in MM. The writers reveal the characters, and their actions and motivations in such a way that viewers are open to multiple interpretations. Gotta love the nuance.
Second, most of MM viewers (especially the ones on this blog!) appreciate the subtle portrayals and are willing to contemplate them. Well done!
Anne B: Some families are not very demonstrative. I got the impression that this was the case with Betty's family. They're more formal. Children are taught to be a bit more distant. Don't get me wrong. Motherhood is not Betty's strong suit but I keep thinking that it's hard to respond to the feelings of others when you don't know what your own feelings are or what the source of your discontent is.
BTW, my grandparents were not huggy/kissy people either but I loved spending time with them because they were content with each other, liked each other and had an orderly rhythm to their responsible lives. It takes all types.
But I don't think that Betty chooses to be cold to her children. She just can't help it right now. The illusion of domestic bliss just isn't squaring with reality for her. She's not in the mold of the suburban housewife. It doesn't float her boat.
@Deborah: Sorry for the "scrivener's error" (term used in the legal profession to explain away self-inflicted negligence). You, not Roberta, wrote the piece…and "Deborah" is what I meant to type @#63). Sorry, sorry, sorry.
["I agree Betty is hiding, and I don’t think she has any idea what a mature relationship is like – she’s confused, searching, and trying to find her power, part of which may be financial."]
Of course Betty has no idea of what a mature relationship is like. She has never been in one. In fact, no one – as far as the major characters are concerned – have ever really experienced a mature relationship.
Pete and Trudy might be embarking upon one, but then again I'm not so sure.
She actually does not hug or kiss either her children or her husband. She will receive touches but not give them. Does anyone else notice this?
Anne B, knowingly or not, you've described someone scarred by childhood abuse – particularly sexual abuse. We explored that possibility with Gene in S2, but it seemed to fade in S3, but I wonder whether there isn't a much deeper secret that is eating Betty – one she cannot even fathom at this point.
I also noticed a parallel to another film that I happened to see on cable this weekend – Ordinary People. Betty is much like the mother in that movie, who is described by her husband as someone who would have been fine had nothing bad happened in their lives. Betty was willing to live the fantasy life, but on her terms, and those have been pretty much obliterated by Don's deceit. Interestingly, the children in that movie – Timothy Hutton's character and his deceased older brother, were born about the same time as Baby Gene, so that film gives a good feeling for what happened to upper-middle class people who lived through the tumult of the 60s and 70s.
"The episode has a “day the music died†feel to it. Or where have you gone Joe Dimaggio? (Aside on music–I’m shocked at its absence. Where are the era defining songs?"
It's 1963. They haven't been written yet. (winky!)
Anne B – Betty is absolutely loopy in many ways.
Her biggest problem seems to be that she internalized that idea that she's supposed to be "daddy's little girl" and a "real princess" as he called her.
you can see this attitude in other sheltered females on the show, too, most noticeably with Roger's daughter in this episode. Those who have never had to struggle don't know how to deal with the world as it is.
you can add to your list that Betty was turned away from Carla when Carla sat down and lit a cigarette (I loved this moment of boundary crossing) while listening to the news.
highlights of the episode, for me:
Pete in a turtleneck. Pete and Trudy in general. I love the actor who plays Trudy. She is so completely believable, spoiled and manipulative and yet sweet at the same time. Can't wait to see Pete with a beatles mop.
I think Pete will be the one who ends up integrating his workplace. maybe the elevator operator will come up with some great line and Pete get him a job with creative to work on the "negro" advertising outlets. I'd love to see that guy with a pipe and slacks and cardigan working a campaign.
The wedding. Roger is such a good creepy guy. The phone call with Joan. Can't wait for MoneyPenny to go. Hope Pryce jumps ship and stays.
When the phones were ringing in the office when Don walked through, it reminded me of hearing all the phones/communication devices/alarms going off from the firefighters when the first tower fell. what a devastating moment.
"Why is anyone believing what Henry is saying to Betty?"
I'm not. I mean, I don't necessarily disbelieve him, but I don't assume at all that he's telling the truth.
Did anyone else notice that at the beginning of the epi when Pete was lying on his couch in the cold, the rifle he bought so long ago was visible in the background? Is he afraid to bring it home to Trudy because he traded a wedding gift for it, or is it there for some other reason?
I don't know about anyone else, but I got the creeps as Pete walked from Pryce's office back to his after the bad news. The background music, and the look Pete gave Ken kinda skeeved me out. I couldn't help but think there may be a "going postal" scene, but then thought that would be too over the top for MM. Oh, and Trudy asked about Pete "losing his temper." Foreshadowing?
On the other hand, I enjoyed seeing Pete be so righteous about Kennedy's death. He has the most contrasting politically correct/uncorrect moments on the show!
Somebody may have already beat me to this observation, or maybe I'm way off, but it strikes me as significant that both Don and Betty are now orphans. (That was heightened by the song from Oliver last night.) My gut says in they end, they do belong to each other, but haven't yet figured that out. Perhaps Don has; and have to say, I think Betty's entitled to her rage and confusion and messy response. The world has changed overnight; hers has been changing all along, but the assassination crystallized it for her. She looks for safety and thinks it's with Henry, but I think she'll realize soon enough it's not. It's with her and her alone. As for Don, sure he came clean. But not totally clean. He didn't discuss the affairs, and probably hasn't shared much beyond what we saw last week. That's not enough, I think, for a new start. And he continues to espouse this "forget about it and you'll get over it" approach, which only leads nowhere.
#64 Dev,
True. It is easy to feel that "everything has changed" … when you are sitting inside, watching "everything" on your TV set.
I remember the lie of this, in the days and weeks after 9/11. And I still watch the dance of shoes-on-shoes-off "security" at our airports with exactly what I felt then: this is not real. Someone is having a great time at our expense.
The TV experience of "everything has changed" is not true of life. Life is what happens between us and our loved ones, family, friends, and others in our communities. Life is everything that goes on when we turn the TV off.
If someone in my family dies, that affects me in a deep, personal way. But if it's someone I don't know — even if it were someone I feel I know and am grateful for each day, like my own President — I want to believe I would handle it as Don did with his kids, in the same four great lines.
"Everything's going to be okay. You have a new President. Everyone's going to be sad for a little while. There will be a funeral on Monday."
If I'm that man's kid, I would know what is over, what continues, and what to expect next. I would know that nothing in my life will be much different from before. Kids watch our reactions to things, and we can scare them when we overreact, but for them the keys are: will you still take care of me? Will I still go to school? Where will I sleep? Where will my things be?
Don — the grown-up — took care of all that: in his kids' real life, not "everything has changed", TV-based, fake life.
#71. I get that vibe, too. I think Betty's deeply scarred, and not just by Don. And I think she will reckon with it soon enough. I was creeped out by Gene's scenes with Sally, and hope that doesn't surface later as a plot point. It's amazing to me how so many are forgiving of Don, but so angry at Betty for being removed. They both are. Don may make an effort with the kids once in a while, but he's inconsistent. And he slept with Sally's favorite teacher — yuck.
@ #78 sjrw—
Good observation! And a reflection that the whole country felt orphaned after the assassination. My mother has described it that way (she was born in 1938).
#81. I just think, in the end, the show is about a marriage that's unlike what we see now in the age of TMI. About two people, Don & Betty, who know nothing about each other falling in love, having kids, making a large mess of things as they slowly discover who they are and what love is, and then re-committing to each other after finding themselves. (To a certain extent, this is what Roger and Joan have done, separating and then finding each other, it seems anyway, once again.) And this is against the backdrop of an industry undergoing massive changes, and a country whose innocence is forever shattered in the 60s, a time of great questioning of established mores and traditions. I think in the end, the two orphans will realize they have each other, they have their family, but not until they separately figure out who they are first.
I also have that sense of foreboding about Don and/or Betty. I tend to lean more towards Betty becoming the catastrophe though. I think that the fact that Mona has been played so strongly in the episodes which she is in is the writer’s way of showing us that Betty would not be able to handle life on her own. Look at Mona, she is living her life, running her daughter’s wedding, and able to have a realistic relationship with her ex husband. Roger got it completely right when he said last night that she is a “lioness.” If you put betty into that same situation, she would never be able to deal with it as well, or at all. Similar to how we see the juxtaposition of Pete and Trudy’s marriage against Don and Betty’s, I believe that Mona is supposed to be an example to us of a divorcee, and how Betty would never be Mona.
@ 56 Rakesh Gulati-Peggy does not strike me as that religious. She does not go to church that often, and we know she uses birth control, which was banned by the church at that point. I have no problem believing she'd eat meat on a Friday.
@ #74
I've been thinking the same thing. I really got a sense that he was lying to her in one of their first meetings. I think it was when he was talking about how he grew up in such-and such town. At the time I assumed he was just trying to pretend they had some things in common to get into her pants. This is something guys do ALL the time
I've always thought that Betty, in her *own* way, was/is as much a liar/story-teller as Don is. Is *her* identity real? Is she 'pretending' to be content (or was she for their entire marriage up until recently)? Or is she merely a bright, beautiful child pretending to be a grown-up? Running to the arms of another man, in her own fantastical way rather than Don's running to another woman in a literal way? Don and Betty are both liars – out of fear, out of greed? Dunno…but they run parallel lines and lives.
hey– this is a combo response to riverdaughter and anne b, plus specific refs to #55 and #2 if memory serves:
yes, i think betty may be either narc. or borderline and yes, a typical scenario is abusive parents producing borderline girls who become borderline moms themselves, so you can fault betty's adult behavior while simultaneously understanding its causality… people hate the word, 'blame.'
and i think the color blue is used to communicate loyalty and royalty.
the kennedy visuals were not confined to gene's car, either. don was dressed in oswald's shot-in-the gut outfit — how appropriate. first don/kennedy dies by assassination (of character), then dick/oswald dies a little as he is told he isn't loved.
cub: I think people are far too critical of Betty. She's not the worst mother in the world. Just a very immature one.
No, I don't think Betty has a personality disorder. She seems to be behaving as any rational person would behave in her circumstances. He lied, he cheated, he treats her like a child. She's had enough. You'd have to be nutz NOT to behave as Betty does.
I think the writers have been using Betty and Don's relationship as a microcosm of the changing world they are living in, particularly regarding gender roles during that time. They are both struggling with who they are and who they are supposed to be. Betty's confusion and uncertainty about her role is evident in almost everything she does. She is a rudderless ship not a housecat. She has some education and experience as a model, but now must squeeze herself into the suburban housewife role. It constrains her and she is bored and disillusioned about what her life is, about who she is. Don is equally reckless and rudderless in his extramarital affairs (even if more likeable) which if you notice are usually about something other than a quick thrill. He is looking for something more too. He is trying to figure out who he really is through these relationships. He is not satisfied even with his lofty accomplishments and status at work.
There seems to be an increasing glance forward to the self-indulgent 1960's that focused on self-realization and self-exploration and the importance of the individual over the group, family, etc. We are seeing the seeds of the 60's and the decades to come in these characters. But aren't we also seeing ourselves and our continued struggles to deal with our ideas about self in our relationships and lives? How many people relate to these characters and their dysfunctional relationships?
Oh and by the way…..how do you think the new business of mass advertising we see on this show is changing the characters' ideas about who they are, who they could be with a better car, cigarette or hair spray, and what else might be out there for them….???
Again: I am just watching, and reporting what I see.
Don kisses the children, and Betty does not. Except for Baby Gene. I don't know why. Maybe it's the amount of time in life he has had to spend covering his own backside, but Don does seem to have an acute sense of what others experience: children, adults, whatever.
Yes, he occasionally uses this to manipulate them. As Don might say: so what?
The point is, if Betty senses what others feel, it does not seem to matter much to her. This is just who she is. It doesn't make her "a bad mother".
I think Betty is a wounded person who happened to marry another wounded person and then had children with him, all the while having no idea why she was doing any of it. And now it's resulted in a mess, but it makes for great TV moments: for example, the little girl rushing to her mother's side the instant she sees her in tears.
The shot of little Sally with her arm around her mother, as Betty and Carla watch the coverage: that was a terrific moment.
How many of us have been that little girl?
@87– it's okay to feel the way you do about betty. i was just "putting my little swirl on top of your idea"
@88– depending on how far the show goes, they may be in for the backlash– anti-consumerism/counterculture– how do you sell things to hippies? –you don't. but you sell the counterculture back to the youth via soft drinks, &c. so yeah, there's a goldmine there.
I also noticed a parallel to another film that I happened to see on cable this weekend – Ordinary People. Betty is much like the mother in that movie, who is described by her husband as someone who would have been fine had nothing bad happened in their lives. Betty was willing to live the fantasy life, but on her terms, and those have been pretty much obliterated by Don’s deceit.
But . . . wasn't it Betty who was always trying to connect on an emotional level with Don? Whereas he tend to dismiss her? And wasn't it Don who was always trying to pretend that there was nothing wrong with their marriage whenever he and Betty clashed? He is still trying to pretend.
@72 good point! But I didn't mean those songs in particular. I meant in general.
That said, The End of the World is entirely fitting!
After some consideration, I retract my objection to the general use of the word narcissist.
Betty has appeared at times to be self-centered, egocentric, concerned with her beauty and detached from her children.
Upon further inquiry, possession of these qualities will get her a preliminary diagnosis of a "narcissistic personality" from five out of ten TV watching armchair psychologists like myself. My opinion is she is not unreasonably excessive in any of these areas and therefore won't qualify her for a DSM-IV definition of "narcissistic personality disorder".
But for the sake of these conversations, I concede the term could apply and be appropriate.
Carry on. Apologetic pedant signing off.
I'm wondering if Pete will get Sterling Cooper into Direct Marketing. I can't remember when that started.
I was 13 when Kennedy and Oswald were shot. People watched TV, took the day off on Monday and then things went back to normal. But the impact lingered on, especially with Irish, Catholic, Democrats.
Unless I missed something, Henry and Betty barely know each other, but she is definitely disgusted and wants out. Another man/provider will be the answer. I don't know if Rockefeller won the election or not. If he lost, Henry could be out of a job.
Ugh, I hope Pete doesn't go postal.
There are so many Sterling Cooper threads to pay off in just one week!!! I have no idea how things will play out. Pete? Duck? Peggy? Brits? Hilton?
#94 less of me: Thanks for retracting.
I am a licensed psychotherapist, and I don't see Betty as meeting criteria for narcissistic personality disorder. That diagnosis usually involves taking advantage of people to achieve their own goals. I think Betty, for whatever reason, is more closed off emotionally than using others for her own benefit. That said, Don seems more the narcissist than Betty, although they both seem to have some features.
@95 the race Henry is referring to is to gain the Republican nomination for 1964, he lost to Goldwater, but he was still Governor and kept that post until 1973.
Does anyone know what that small tatoo on Duck's left shoulder says?
The interplay between Don and Betty regarding Don's past is wildly unrealistic. There is no way such a smart, meticulous person Like Don would leave his entire life's secrets in a desk drawer in the house. That's just ridiculous. They should have been more clever in how she found out.
Furthermore, it's highly unlikely she would even contemplate leaving her wealthy, successful ad man with 3 children, 1 a newborn practically, to run off with another guy.
Wasn't Duck military?
Also, one more thing on Rockefeller, several people have made comments that seem to assume that he was anti-civil rights etc b/c he was Republican but this was in the time before the realignment of the Republican party that occured in the coming years and Rockefeller was not only pro-civil rights but enacted several laws in NY State to combat discrimination. There were probably just as many northern Republicans who were pro-civil rights as there were anti-civil rights Southern Democrats. All of that changed after Goldwater won the 1964 Republican nomination and Johnson signing the Civil Rights legislation, which he predicted correctly would lose the South for the Democrats for generations.
I shouldn't put it up there if I can't defend it.
My typing gets a jump on the cranium sometimes. Sorry.
@101 everyone, including smart meticulous people, screw up sometimes. Especially when they are over-worked, over-tired and stressed out. Between the baby (which even if he doesn't get up all the time still has to wake him up) Connie with the all hours phone calls etc, his catting around with Ms. Farrell, being forced to sign the contract, etc obviously it was all too much and he just dropped a few balls, including keeping his desk locked. I'm sure that he, like many men of the time, assumed the little woman would ever go into his locked desk. Maybe he wanted to be caught b/c if he was really up to his usual standards he'd have put it all in a safe deposit box. He probably felt guilty since it was Adam, his brother, who gave him the box so it was probably a blind spot.
Given that MW has the ability to turn the storyline a complete 180°, sometimes within the same episode, I have absolutely NO ideas of how this all could possibly play out. And the week is going to move very slowly as I anxiously await the season finale.
Given the departures of so many characters, it wouldn't surprise me if Betty ran off and moved to Albany with Henry never to be seen on screen again (perish the thought). Nor would it surprise me if somehow Don and Betty work out something, either together or apart. We'll just have to wait and see.
Great post Deborah –
When Betty finds him with baby Gene he says, "I'm here." and then something to the effect of "It's not the first time. I've been here.." Betty is trying to paint him as the devil – never around, absentee father, cheater, liar, etc. Except that life is not that black and white. Don has done bad things – but he has also tried. He's tried with Betty, he's tried with the kids, with the baby, inviting Grampa Gene to live with them, and so on. Don has no models of how to be a loving, present partner, but he is trying. He seems more himself and more truthful in this episode.
Betty (as you say) is still lying. As the posts above have said – jumping into a full relationship with a man she doesn't know AT ALL – only because he gives her attention.
Betty has no idea who she is or what she wants. While I think Don is finally and slowly coming to understand who he is and what he wants (watching them eat breakfast with the camera from behind him told me that).
#56 ?? Ah, Peggy is having a "nooner" (to quote Paul Kinsey), has had pre-marital sex, has had sex with a married man, and been pregnant out of wedlock.
I think she'll be able to handle the "wages of sin" that accompany a ham sandwich on a Friday.
@105 –you have encapsulated my thoughts exactly!
#83 RetroGirl, it isn't so much religion as socialization. Catholics didn't eat meat on Friday back then, period. Also, I don't recall seeing a Monte Cristo on a menu until the 80s. Was it popular earlier than that on the East Coast?
Henry=Suzanne as a plot device. Henry is there as a Don alternative. Suzanne was there to show Don what it would be like to have an emotional connection.
Hi riverdaughter!
Not beating up on Betty. I actually have felt affection for her, but she is also a fascinating cipher to me. For example:
1. When she tells Don that they are “a great team”, they are not touching.
2. She almost never touches anyone else first — except her newborn.
3. She did not start crying about President Kennedy until Carla did.
4. Her idea of loving gestures to her children include presents (boots, a Barbie) and saying “you are very important to me”.
5. She actually does not hug or kiss either her children or her husband. She will receive touches but not give them. Does anyone else notice this?
6. She has failed to set good boundaries between herself and certain others (Glen and Helen Bishop, for example).
There are others, but these are good for just an armchair introduction to narcissism. It’s not just a Hollywood thing, it is real, and when it happens in families it is devastating.
I don’t have a view into what the writers have planned down the road for any of the characters. I am just watching the action as it passes, and this is some of what I see in Betty. It’s not all of it.
Here is another excellent MadMen post from Ta-Nehisi Coastes with some really insightful comments http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2…
I find it a little ironic that Kennedy's death struck Betty that hard, given how she said she hated Kennedy in S1, in the midst of her anger over Helen. But since she saw the whole thing through her own little bubble and problems, JFK himself probably didn't cross her mind much.
One quick question and I’m gone. Why is anyone believing what Henry is saying to Betty? At all? Here is a man who likes the allure of a married woman, of course as a politician, he’s going to be an expert at saying what it takes to get the job done. He is far too savvy to be sincerely offering marriage to Betty Draper. He wants what he wants and will say anything to get it. Captain Awesome was a more likely marriage prospect.
My observations of Betty seem to be in the minority here, but I'm still on her side. We know that her upbringing by an overly critical mother has damaged her. She has been earning her keep by being thin, pretty and subservient to the man in her life. She has followed the rules and been harmed. She took on her role as wife and mother while Dick has taken on the role of Don/Businessman/Cheat….yada, yada, yada. Don demonstrates time and again that the rules don't apply to him. Remember at Midge's party when the young beatnik told Don that he couldn't leave because the police were out harassing people? Don replied that he could because he was respectable and that they couldn't because they were of the counter culture. This is just an example of how he uses his Don Draper mask to get what he wants. Betty has no mask. She is living the life she expected, only Don fabricated his part. She told him that he ruined it. I can't blame Betty for her sexual encounter during the separation. She was lonely and angry. I can't blame her for her flirtation with Henry Francis because he is meeting a need that Don isn't. I sense her anger and think that she is the one with the least options. She tried to be a dutiful wife, but continues to be humiliated by her husband. She tried to be a good mother but her own daughter took Don's side and blamed her for the separation. She tried to be a good daughter by bringing her father into her home and her brother resents her still. If Betty is weak I think Don has contributed to it as much as her parents have. When he told her to take a pill and lie down I really wanted her to slug him. He has only himself to blame for his problems. The truth is that Betty has society and the law against her. She wants a life without Don, but as a mother she cannot really risk moving on with Henry. There's nothing hotter than a woman with three small children and a controlling husband. I'm not sure about Henry, maybe he can see more in her than Don can? She leaves her husband and the consequence is losing her children. The truth will set her free, but she'll be alone.
# 101 duane lominac Says:
November 2nd, 2009 at 5:42 pm
The interplay between Don and Betty regarding Don’s past is wildly unrealistic. There is no way such a smart, meticulous person Like Don would leave his entire life’s secrets in a desk drawer in the house. That’s just ridiculous. They should have been more clever in how she found out.
****
I got the feeling that Don assumed Betty wouldn't mess with his desk, simply because it was his and he didn't want her to. He thought she lacked curiosity about things like that. He thought she didn't worry about things that didn't seem to concern her. And for most of their marriage that was probably true.
But . . . wasn’t it Betty who was always trying to connect on an emotional level with Don? Whereas he tend to dismiss her? And wasn’t it Don who was always trying to pretend that there was nothing wrong with their marriage whenever he and Betty clashed? He is still trying to pretend.
Please, refresh my memory. Recount a few of the times Betty "tried to connect on an emotional level with Don."
Or, perhaps, on an intellectual level; for example, why did he send the poetry book to Anna? Why didn't he think Betty would be interested?
#74 Good point. I don’t believe Henry. I thought he was getting a better read on Betty and just going in the direction that would best seal the deal for him.
not_Bridget: Don would have to be thick as a brick to not see the signs that Betty wanted a more intimate relationship with him. She had to eat her dinner by herself or with the kids. She told him point blank that she yearned for him. She showed up on Valentines Day in a black lace teddy, garters and stockings and he blew her off. Let's consider it another way: what kind of husband leaves a beautiful, hot, aims-to-please, MILF at home unattended while he sleeps with a series of tasty brunetts? We have been looking at the problem all wrong. It isn't Betty that is being cold. It's been Don. He isn't attracted to his trophy wife in a sexual way. Well, he is but not enough to have a truly intimate relationship with her. I see her coming on to him way more than he to her.
I have no idea why he didn't send the book to Betty instead of Anna. We see her reading all of the time between wash cycles. She doesn't pick romance novels either. They're challenging contemporary reads or classics. I guess he pays no attention to her literary tastes.
I have a theory. I think we are waaaay more critical of women than men. We have been watching Betty for 3 years and criticize her for everything she does or doesn't do. We act as if she brought all of this misery on herself, forgetting that she's not the one who has been living a lie for 13 years. She's not the one who has serial affairs. She's not the one who has been neglecting her spouse. But we give DON a pass. He has become such an sympathetic character because we know his troubled childhood and, well, boys will be boys.
But Betty didn't ask for a different man. She didn't expect to be left by herself in the big, beautiful house, spending night after night, lonely and ignored. And we wonder why she's irritable and snaps at her kids.
#91,
What I think Betty loved about Don was that he is just incredibly sexy. She was crazy about him. She came right out and said how much she “wanted” him, back in S1.
And he lied to her face and said that she had him, the cheating bastard.
Now, I think she’s over that. Betty has identified another man who she thinks can bring home the big one, if you catch my meaning. I think that you do.
I believe that what Betty and Don had was never a mental, an emotional, or a spiritual connection. They had a physical connection: a strong one. That was what they rocked on their weekend in Italy.
I still think this is why that tower is leaning, btw: Don and Bets totally tipped it.
#97 Hell’s Belle, thank you!
Just curious: do narcissists really marry each other? I just wonder what the point of that would be. It sounds like a frustrating arrangement.
Hey, a belated (very belated!) shout-out to the magnificent Deb, for one more informative and lively thread.
What a season this has been! Now, with just one episode left, where to we go from here?
I'm not sure that a suicide (or attempt) by anyone will be the plot device used for a season finale cliffhanger – though I have wondered if some crisis with Baby Gene or a sudden illness or death of a character, might happen.
What happens on the show on Sunday will determine a lot of things.
Season One ended with Peggy having a baby in late 1960, then Season Two began, in 1962. At the end of Season Two, the cliffhanger was about whether Don & Betty would stay together, after the separation that season.
In previous posts on BoK, I've speculated that in Season Four, the show will probably jump to '65 – '66. But now I'm questioning my own thinking on that.
Will the season finale deal with the possible sale of Sterling Cooper?
Will something happen with Bert or Roger? Or, what if Henry dies suddenly?
And what about Suzanne and her brother? Where are their story lines going?
And I keep thinking about Baby Gene or the other Draper kids.
At this point, the show has us wondering – again – whether Don & Betty will stay together. Betty's interaction with Henry could have a bearing on that, but if he is suddenly out of the picture, perhaps some crisis with the kids could be a device for a cliffhanger — but then, Season Four would probably need to start in late '63 or early '64.
The questions and possibilities are endless …
My head hurts. I think I'll take a pill and lie down a while! LOL
MsNikki and riverdaughter, thanks for these great comments about Betty!
I think we are meant to see all of this about Betty – I mean, it's all been written into the script. And yet there is so much criticism and so little sympathy for her amongst the show's fans. Betty is obviously depressed, and this shapes her behavior. Don doesn't exactly pick up the slack as a parent — he doesn't even notice there is a problem! Does all the prejudice against Betty really just boil down to society's view of a how a wife and mother should behave? Sometimes I feel like we haven't progressed that much since the 60s.
I don't really understand the criticism of Don saying "Its' going to be OK." It IS going to be OK. He's absolutely right. And that's the absolute right thing to say to your kids in a moment of horrifying news on TV. We're going to get a new president, we're going to be sad for a while, and then we're going to keep on going.
As long as everyone is bringing up analogies to 9/11, I'll tell my little story. I recall sitting in that bright September sunshine on that perfectly clear blue-sky day, and wondering what madness was descending on the world, and then I thought "I'm going to wake up tomorrow. And the world will still be spinning on its axis. The clouds will still be up in the sky. The birds will still sing. The sun will still shine. It might be different, but the big things don't change." (How I wish we'd all kept our heads about it, but that's a topic for another time and place.)
Maybe it's something like Rick's line in Casablanca "the problems of three people don't amount to a hill of beans in the world."
I think Don is right. It's going to be OK. Especially if you consider that change can be good.. a dance that says look something new.
(Well, I'm off to watch it — finally!– for the second time. Catch you all later!)
# 117 – "The questions and possibilities are endless… My head hurts. I think I’ll take a pill and lie down a while! LOL"
What if it turns out that Conrad Hilton HAD done some investigation about Don/Dick's background, finds out the truth and he alerts the Military authorities?
Wonder if we'll see Connie again. Seems like he fell off the map, although apparently SC still has the account. After all the father-son talk, Connie just dropped Don like rock when Don didn't come through for him the way he wanted. Just one more shitty thing in a long line of shitty things that happened to Dick Whitman lately I guess..
Did anyone notice in the scene on the Monday of the funeral, when Don is going into the kitchen for the last time before leaving for work, you can hear a cold wind whistling through the house? I didn't notice it the first time I watched, but on second viewing, it was really noticeable. Brrrrrrrr…….
And Sally and Bobbie's expressions were amazing in that scene.
And another thing — I never thought I would like Trudy so much.
#107 Elle: Very eloquent, thanks.
#110: I have a book by Betty MacDonald that was a best-seller in the 1950s, and she is recounting a New Year's Eve party in the 1940s at which her family made a big production of concocting Monte Cristo sandwiches for guests.
My dad's family was Catholic and they ate meat on Fridays without a qualm. I doubt Mrs. Olson would but it doesn't surprise me that Peggy does. She pretty much told Father Gil that his God wasn't her interpretation of God.
Coming here late in the day on Monday, lots of people have already weighed in on the Don-Betty relationship, Pete, Duck, etc., so I’ll throw in my 2 cents on things people haven’t mentioned:
In case you didn’t notice, last night’s episode was directed by Barbet Schroeder, the French/Swiss film director who’s directed Barfly (1987) Reversal of Fortune (1990), etc. According to Wikipedia it’s the first TV show he’s directed (leave it to Wikipedia to already have this info). Schroeder got his start in French cinema of the 1960s and I thought last night’s episode definitely had an art house, French new wave feel to it. The dialog, subject, staging, it was all very existential, people questioning life, their roles in it. Plus the cinematography felt very soft toned and muted, very Peyton Place, Valley of the Dolls – the puffy embroidered house coat that Betty walked around in, Betty & Don popping pills, it was so Jaqueline Susann.
Lots in this episode about relationships between older men and younger women: Henry and Betty, Roger and Jane, Duck and Betty. What do these women see in these much older men? I can’t help thinking Betty’s looking for a replacement for her father.
And can I just say that MW & crew continue to amaze me with their selection of songs to roll over the ending credits. They managed to make Skeeter Davis’ “End of the World” (which was a crossover country/pop hit in 1963) seem like the most tragic love song ever.
Poor Don, you didn’t find love for long, did you.
About the music: I thought I remembered MM saying in an interview once that they had a limited budget and his first question when someone suggested a song was, "Can we afford it?" Hence I don't expect we'll be hearing any Beatles music either.
As far as Don loving Betty is concerned: He loves her conditionally. That condition is, she has to not mind sharing him with other women, because just one will never be enough for him — and not just for sex, either, but to be able to share things with them he never dared share with Betty, and still won't because he thinks she's too stupid to understand them.
He encouraged Suzanne to fall in love with him. He would have whisked Midge off to Paris with his bonus check if she'd only said yes (probably BS-ing Betty that he was on some business trip). He'd have dropped everything and run off with Rachel to California, never to be seen again, if she'd agreed to it. He left Betty alone night after night to dally in the arms of other women, thinking she'd never find out. (And again, I am sure she knew he wasn't with Connie Hilton all those nights, although I doubt she knew exactly who he was with.)
This is not a man with a deep commitment to one person. This is a man who has an intractable double standard, because if he thought for a minute that Betty was even thinking about doing the things he did, he'd have killed her. And yet, he embarked on an affair with someone right under his family's nose, with someone whose identity, if revealed, would have devastated not just Betty, but Sally too.
Okay, you can say "Don" did all that, not "Dick." But I don't think that was just acting out not being able to be Dick full-time — which, incidentally, he still can't be, not when he has to continue to fake it for his job. That's who he is. He will never be a one-woman man, and yet he demands that his wife (and even his mistress!) be a one-man woman. He might try to "be good" for short periods of time, but there will always be another brunette. And yeah, people can reach the point where there's just been too much crap for too many years to forgive and forget. It's a sad thing when people get the point too late that they've crossed that line, but the fact that he didn't mind a bit that Suzanne was falling in love with him demonstrates to me that he isn't as broken up over losing Betty as he is over the idea of losing "all this."
I know I sound like I'm being hard on Don, and it's not that I don't feel bad for him. But I also think he more than had it coming.
gypsy says, Did anyone notice in the scene on the Monday of the funeral, when Don is going into the kitchen for the last time before leaving for work, you can hear a cold wind whistling through the house? I didn’t notice it the first time I watched, but on second viewing, it was really noticeable. Brrrrrrrr…….
When he stood in the dark of the doorway and we look over his shoulder into the kitchen, it reminded me of a reverse negative image of the first scenes of the season where he's recalling the imagery of his birth.
Undoubtedly freezing maybe one last tableau of the perfect life.
not_Bridget: Don would have to be thick as a brick to not see the signs that Betty wanted a more intimate relationship with him. She had to eat her dinner by herself or with the kids. She told him point blank that she yearned for him. She showed up on Valentines Day in a black lace teddy, garters and stockings and he blew her off. Let’s consider it another way: what kind of husband leaves a beautiful, hot, aims-to-please, MILF at home unattended while he sleeps with a series of tasty brunetts? We have been looking at the problem all wrong. It isn’t Betty that is being cold. It’s been Don. He isn’t attracted to his trophy wife in a sexual way. Well, he is but not enough to have a truly intimate relationship with her. I see her coming on to him way more than he to her.
Yes, it's Don's job to read Betty's opaque little mind. She wants more sex with Don Draper–don't blame her there. He can get sex anywhere–what if she had more to offer him?
I'm just wishing she could link words together in a way to indicate she had a brain. She had four years at Bryn Mawr, but she apparently read her course work, regurgitated it into the exam booklets & forget it all. She read The Group–a hot bestseller of the day, even though the author proved her intellectual weight elsewhere. The educated ladies in the book actually showed their education when they spoke–almost to the point of parody. She gets a hobby–riding a big dumb animal! At least Arthur inspired her to check out F Scott Fitzgerald.
We never, ever heard Betty make any cutural references–until Singin' In The Rain. Even Bobbie Barrett–surely no intellectual–spoke intelligently of foreign film. Betty could have told Don she wanted them to return to Italy, so she could show him the wonders of that ancient culture; nope, she spent her day in Rome getting her hair done, showed off her tourist Italian, then pouted when he gave her a golden charm.
When Betty actually screws her nerve up to speak, she uses words of one syllable. "Don't come home." "I don't love you any more."
And er, I meant “MW” of course, not “MM.” Damn that acronymic confuseritis.
@ 124 Meowser- I don’t think they have to play Beatles music to cover it. Depending on when season 4 starts, it could be a conversation before a meeting. Something like Harry saying, “I saw them on Ed Sullivan last night, but I don’t see what the fuss is about,” and then Don getting the meeting started.
If the season starts a year after the Sullivan appearances, Don talking to Peggy, Kurt and Smitty trying to figure out why The Beatles are popular, and how can they use that to sell products, especially to younger people.
@not-bridget – wouldn't you love to see the early years of their marriage (although no, MW, I'm not suggesting we spend season 4 on Chez Draper The Early Years! Let's get back to the office!)
I suspect Betty didn't come into this marriage as a grown-up and then suddenly turn into the self-centered, shallow child-woman in reaction to the way Don treated her. She came into the marriage that way. Just as she's now given up on Don, I kinda wonder if somewhere along the way he didn't give up on her. They fell into the pattern we see – Betty cold and monosyllabic, Don trying to paper over whatever emotions bubble to the surface.
In a way, I feel like it IS going to be OK, even if (maybe especially if) they get divorced. They are both SO unhappy right now. Do they have the capability to make each other happy, or should they just move on. I think for Don, there are other women out there who can make him happy, although I hope the lesson he took from all this isn't that his first instinct was right- keep his past hidden at all costs. That could be his undoing in his next relationship too.
As for Betty- well, whatever. I don't think she's going to be happy just running off to her next rescue fantasy with Henry. But maybe without the Dick Whitman baggage, Betty & Henry (or Betty & someone) can make it work.
And then that leaves the kids…. They're on their own either way, I'm afraid.
What really struck me was how much the kids were on their own through all of this. With the exception of the scene with Don & Bobby on the couch, the kids were completely shut out all weekend. Go to your room. Go to Francine's. Where's Mommy? Mommy's lying down in her room. Jeethe Looweeth.
Riverdaughter said: But Betty’s concept of self is so at odds with where she is now and who she’s supposed to be that is hard for her to love anyone. How can you love when you are so hurt and confused and when your whole life has been dictated by others? Has she even had the power to make a decision to love? Even her last child was kind of forced on her. Here, you’re a pregnant woman, mother it.
First time commenting here–and how I adore this site, and this amazing show Mad Men, which I only discovered this summer via the gift of the first and second seasons on DVD (Hi, Deborah!)
Anyway, the above sentiment echoes my own thoughts and feelings about Betty, one of the most misunderstood women on television ever, I think. Well said, RD. I won't belabor the point other than to say that I was raised similarly, and while I adore my children with all my heart, I, like Betty, should probably not have been a mother. I want too many other things, and I can't have them–or even begin to work toward them–until the boys are grown. I was brought up in a similar "nordic" environment, and pushed to always look the right way. My life was, and is still, today, completely controlled by others (and not just by the kids, either).
Suffice it to say, when I watched Souvenir, with Betty in Italy and then coming home to the suburbs again, I cried like a baby. I get Betty. Oh boy, do I ever get Betty.
not_Bridget: What can I say? I don't even know where to begin. You either pay attention to what motivates the character and understand or you don't. To me, the last several episodes have brought the whole Betty conundrum into sharp focus, sort of like what happens to the dead guy in The Sixth Sense at the very end. He finally understands why his wife won't talk to him.
I totally get Betty. She's showing remarkable restraint at this point. Under similar circumstances, I would have killed Don Draper. And I'm starting to warm to Henry too, though I need to find out what kind of life he has in mind when he asks her if she has considered that there is a different way to live. I think he sees the potential in Betty.
not_Bridget, they were in Italy for what, 48 hours? That's what you do when you're going to be dining with your husband's client–you get your hair done. You buy a new dress (that black frock was very early-60's Italian) and make sure you look and feel fabulous. Betty lived in Italy after college and worked there as a model; she'd undoubtedly seen all the usual things a visitor to Rome would see. Her Italian was hardly just "tourist Italian"–she spoke it pretty fluently (trust me) albeit with an American accent–and she was far more aware of custom and protocol than her husband (the tipping incident, for example).
As for the monosyllabic declarative sentences, well, take it from one who was raised in a "nordic" British family: that's how people speak when the anger behind the words is so white-hot, it's too risky to get into lengthy arguments and completely lose it. Instead, you make your point. Simply. Forcefully.
Well. And wow, what an episode. I don't think I will get the image of the crushed and beaten Don Draper slumped in his bedroom chair out of my mind for quite some time.
I saw Betty's character as more childish than ever, in some ways, this episode. Yes, she has been horribly betrayed. But her hiding out in Daddy's car, having her secret RV with the politician guy who seems to want to coddle her and take her to the movies to make it all better… I was disappointed in her character. If she ends up with that guy, I think she's going to be as unfilled as ever. Politicians are notorious liars and something tells me this guy is not all he's cracked up to be. He's an immediate panacea to her pain, but I don't think he's the answer, not at all.
The answer is within Betty herself. Instead of looking for men to fulfill her (typical of women at that time), she should be figuring out who the hell she is. Then, and only then, can she experience real love, and with Don. He is so obviously a much deeper and more interesting person than the politician.
I could see this going so many different ways at this point — but I hope Betty takes a different direction. It may take a failed marriage to politician guy to get there.
I loved Don's anger in the final scenes. You have to really understand his character to not be outraged by that. I think it was justified. He knows Betty is rejecting him in part because now she has seen the slimy underbelly of his true self and she can't handle it.
Just like in real life, we're allowed to fall in love with flawed characters, and when we do, we tend to cut them a lot of slack for their behavior, while cutting a lot less slack to those we don't particularly like. I'll go on record stating that I'm a bit in love with Don, and not so much with Betty. So I don't feel the need to be completely and constantly fair in judging their behavior. When push comes to shove, I'm rooting for his happiness over hers.
There. I said it.
gypsy and donny sittin' in a tree,
k-i-s-s-i-n-g
first comes luv, then comes marriage
then gypsy goes out shootin' pigeons.
Another Hamm reference…. A Monte Cristo sandwich is made of ham.
Glen Bishop didn't like ham sandwiches but Archibald Whitman did and so does Peggy.
In my dreams, less of me. In my dreams.
Hey you've spoken the truth, you should be set free; free to dream whatever you wish.
I don't have a major opinion on the topic but I do think they'll be better off apart, for at least a while, and they'll be more fun to watch next season because of it.
Where's the Lane thread?? Or Roger the reconstituted mensch thread??
gypsy: Partially right. All that you've said is a significant factor. But the problem with Betty goes deeper than that. The life she is leading is all wrong. He has resisted her attempts at intimacy and now she knows why. But the other thing that must be bugging the $#% out of her is how it is that society expects her to live under these conditions both in her own house and out of it. It is tremendously unfair to her.
There comes a time when you can't be lied to anymore. You get that little bit of extra information that tips the scales in the other direction. After that, you can't even lie to yourself. Betty has reached the tipping point. It is over for her and Don. I truly believe that. If they get back together again, it won't be for a long time and they will have to become different people.
Sorry if that bums out the Don fans but he had it comin'.
not_Bridget: Never said you would see less of Don. He's the star. You *may* see less of Betty but if my theory of Three Ibsen Plays is accurate, she won't be going away. She could show us what happened to Nora after she left Torvald's house. And they do have three kids between them so there will be plenty of interaction.
Now, if I were to make predictions about who else you might be seeing more of I would say that Pete could get a major story line next year. Maybe reprising Enemy of the People?
Just a guess.
I feel like some of this discussion is becoming a little too black and white about who is in the wrong. When I think of Don and Betty I'm reminded of a song, whose name I cannot remember right now and I can't remember the artist either, it was probably mid-to late 70's possibly early 80's non-new wave in a more gentle Eagle-ish style and there is a stanza that says "there ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys, it's only you and me and we just disagree" I feel like there is blame to go around on both sides.
From a totally objective perspective (or as close as I can muster) as an outsider looking in just on the facts of who has cheated or withheld what info, Don is a louse and Betty is a victim. But they are both in a really, really tough situation and they have both made horrible mistakes. Lots of this seems to come from their childhoods, Betty was raised in an aloof household, where there probably wasn't much physical or emotional intimacy, there was probably love but more along the lines of the stereotypical "nordic" hands-off, I show you I love you not by hugs, kisses, conversation and nuturing your little soul but by putting a roof over your head, food in your belly, clothes on your back (nice ones at that), a good education, some luxuries like riding lessons, etc, and by not screaming at you or knocking you around or (as far as we know), sexually exploiting you. NOw, to me that isn't the greatest of childhoods but is a darn sight better than the childhood that most people in this world get. It is unfortunate that she has never learned how to do the demonstrative part of love, and there is no evidence that she has now or has ever had any emotional intamacy with anyone (she seems to have no friends beyond the surface neighbor thing). She isn't a bad person, she isn't a horrible mother, but outside of her looks, she seems sort of hard to like. Except for being nice to Glenn Fisher and his mother, I can't recall seeing her going out of her way to be kind to anyone. I think we sort of hold that against her b/c, Roseanne and Married with Children aside, we are used to seeing tv Mom's being nurturing and somewhat kind (even Carmella Soprano could be pretty compassionate at times). SO I think people judge her so harshly, partially for being a woman who doesn't seem to have the "nuruturing" qualities we so cherish in women. But, and this applies to Don to who had a HORRIFIC childhood and aside from sexual abuse seemed to suffer every kind of child abuse, the childhood isn't all of it, some of it is personality and she seems to have very little or to be afraid to show it for some reason. As someone pointed out, it seems like sitting in the car with Henry was the first time she has seemed to genuinely smile or laugh. That seems to make it harder to like her as well.
Don, despite his manipulativeness, his casual affairs, and occasional curtness with his employees, has been seen to have some emotional empathy and genuine friendship at least with a few of his lovers (Rachel particularly) and though we've seen him cold and cutting at times, we've also seen him display great compassion and loyalty to the extent of keeping people's secrets. I think that coupled with men getting more slack in society accounts for some of people letting him off the hook. I also know that for me, knowing about his childhood really makes me cut him slack too. I know Don would not want anyone in his life to pity him and wouldn't want people to know about his childhood but since we know that, I can't help but feel sorry for him. HOwever, he too by virtue of his personality, has not been able to overcome the lack of intimacy he was given as a child but he has been able to overcome re-creating the great cruelty he experienced as a child and not revist that on his children. He should be around them more but given how child abuse usually goes in cycles he has demonstrated great strength by not falling victim to it.
I know I'm starting to blather but Don and Betty are both flawed, they both have my sympathy on some level, they cannot seem to genuinely communicate what they want and need and until they can do that and overcome their upbringings they will stay stuck. They are both to blame for their situation and Don's actions seem to have exacerbated the situation but to some degree they both deserve a good deal of the burden of creating the situation they are in.
Sorry, I didn't realize my post was that long
Never be sorry for a long post when it's that good, DP.
Well I picked the wrong week to be away (at least when it comes to MM!).
So many good comments here this week – please forgive if there is some overlap with others.
Deb, your post really gets at the heartbreak of this episode. When we look back at the arc of Don’s character we see him protect his DD identity so fiercely (even at the expense of his brother) because he is afraid to lose everything he worked so hard to get. A primary fear is that no one will want a “nobody†Dick Whitman, dirt poor, whore child (“he has no familyâ€). Don spent this season slowly learning to re-fall in love with his family (and certainly isn’t entirely over his old tricks). He lives with one foot in DD and one in DW culminating in the climatic box revelation.
The great irony here is that the truth really does set Don free to remember his feelings for Betty, open up and love her for the first time in years without the tension and fear of having to hide his real identity. The truth sets Betty free to become her father’s daughter and admit that she doesn’t want a formerly dirt-poor nobody without a family. In essence, Don’s fears were fully justified – Betty really was out of Dick Whitman’s league.
True that Betty did not have a “real†person to fall in love with. She fell in love with an image (watch out Henry!). Much of her issue is she simply does not trust the shape-shifter Don. Over the years the person she thought was Don, football hero, morphed into a mystery, a cheater and finally into a hobo. And that simply won’t do.
Above all else Betty is a creature of her shallow family and while her family knew the importance of looking good they aren’t all that nice.
Don’s truth set him free and may also be the dragon that slays him.
I also have a survey/question: Is the Draper marriage the stand in for President Kennedy? That is, is Don (Kennedy) to be replaced by Henry Francis (politician/LBJ)? Or is someone really going to bite it next week? I don’t have a clue right now.
Have a great party next week, I’ll be thinking of you all back in Denver!
ddd, great comment! I don't know about Henry as LBJ; it's a fascinating thought.
gypsy: I think Betty wouldn't have a chance in this day and age either. We expect women to be nurturing. Well, most of us do. Some of us expect them to be good people and good parents, regardless of gender. Kissing and hugging are important but for some reason, we're really on Betty's case for not smothering these kids with physical affection. I don't know if that says something about Betty or us.
We don't know what kind of mother Betty is capable of being because she's still a child herself. We saw her smile in the car with Henry and he's beginning to come into focus for me. They don't have a sexual relationship yet. And while I thought her tawdry comment was cool and distancing, I'm beginining to think Betty has a point. She doesn't want to jump straight into bed with this man. She wants to go to the movies, have dinner together, spend time with each other. That is so mature. He is giving her the space to do that. He's letting her make the decisions. He is saying, this is no romantic fantasy. We're not Romeo and Juliet. You have children, I have children, We will make it work because we want to find a different way to live. I am totally falling for Henry in a big way.
How much you wanna bet that when Henry and Betty are finally able to start their new lives together that Betty will start to become a more demonstrative mother? It will be her choice.
To me, the last several episodes have brought the whole Betty conundrum into sharp focus, sort of like what happens to the dead guy in The Sixth Sense at the very end. He finally understands why his wife won’t talk to him.
The more cynical way to look at it is that Betty has finally learned enough about Don’s past and what motivates his behavior, to puncture her fantasy about him being some romantic vision of “a football star who hated his father.” And now she can’t live with that knowledge because it is in conflict with the picture she wanted to paint. So, she finds another blank canvas (Henry) about whom she knows very little and onto whom she can project her daddy’s-little-girl fantasies.
Yeah, I guess that’s harsh. I’m not saying it’s completely right, but it might be a little bit right.
Spot on. And Betty has the cold brutality of the unsure repressed, too. Don can be commanding, but we often see his compassion and sense of fairness. So without the open heart, Betty will continue to seek her happiness from others, thereby setting up a life of wretched seeking; probably would become a serial divorcee in real life. How can you *accept* a marriage proposal from someone you don’t even know?! That gave me the creeps. She’s way off the rails and it’s sad that the psychoanalysis didn’t uncover Daddy……
I'm not on Betty's case for not "smothering these kids with physical affection." She just seems to find them so annoying. How dare they ask for attention! The assassination made her fall apart–even though she hadn't cared for JFK earlier–but she made no attempt to discuss the events with her kids. Or with Don. She just collapsed in a pile of misery. I was in high school back then & remember that time well. As Irish-American Catholic Democrats in Texas, our family felt the events strongly. But my mother, riveted to the TV along with everybody else, did not stop functioning. (As a widow, she had the advantage on Betty; she'd actually faced hard times & discovered her strength.)
These aren't people; even if they were, I'm not in any position to judge them. I'd love for Betty the dramatic character to find true love & perfect happiness–in Albany or someplace more distant. So the show could concentrate more on Don & the other characters I've been missing this season.
Well, in fairness, Betty didn’t accept the marriage proposal. And maybe she won’t. But it seems pretty clear that it’s an option n her mind.
Also loved the evolution of Pete’s character in this episode. He actually apologizes to his secretary when he’s an ass about the hot chocolate, and seeing the lightbulb go on in his head about corporate politics is really refreshing. I, too, find him a wee bit scary in the office at times… maybe he’ll be the one to lose it first?
Also, one last comment on Don: I absolutely loved the moment of him peeking into the kitchen to watch the perfect tableau of Betty and the kids at breakfast. It was heart-breaking. It was Dick peering in from the cold on the world he always wanted and could never have. Just amazing.
Hamm’s acting in this episode was superb and possibly was one of the best yet. Damn these people better get some awards.
And why, oh why, do they run reality TV and the like 365 days a year, but we get to savor only 3 months of this fantastic production? So annoying.
@ Dark Peggy #150
The song you're thinking of is "We Just Disagree" by Dave Mason.
Re-reading Deb's original post, I'm reminded of a Van Morrison lyric:
And when heart is open
And when heart is open
You will change just like a flower slowly openin'
And when heart is open
You will change just like a flower slowly openin'
When there's no comin'
And there's no goin'
And when heart is open
You will meet your lover
You will tarry
You will tarry
With your lover
not_Bridget: What can I say? I don’t even know where to begin. You either pay attention to what motivates the character and understand or you don’t.
OK. We’re supposed to intuit everything about Poor Betty–just as Don is. Because it’s just too hard for her to express herself verbally.
Now she’s got a new guy lined up. So she can remain an empty vessel, ready to be filled with meaning by The Right Man. (Let’s hope she remembers the diaphragm this time.)
not_Bridget: It's clear that you don't like Betty. You like Don, like gypsy, and you are up front about admitting it. Maybe this is part of Weiner's point. I find much of Betty's behavior entirely understandable and her culpability in the present circumstances rather limited. But that's because I see Betty as a person.
You see her as cold, selfish and unlovable because you see Betty as a mother and a wife. She isn't conforming to your standard definitions and expectations.
Our culture is still like this and it is because so many of us refuse to see women as persons and not as the roles we assign to them. I suspect you enjoy this program on a completely different level than I do.
not_Bridget: One more thing- while I wouldn't mind seeing more of Joan, Peggy and Pete, if Betty disappeared to find true happiness, the show would suffer, in my humble opinion. We need to see her struggle. And we need to see Don come to his own epiphany. He can't do that without Betty in his life in some capacity.
Well now I do have an opinion on the Bets, riverdaughter. And Henry.
The marriage offer put me off a bit but in context of the time I see it as Henry's best grand gesture of assurance.
He doesn't know much about Betty other than she's unhappy and she can't fully see how different she can live. He understands this. He understands she is blinded by the only role she's lived, can't see past "suburban housewife". Betty feels it though and wants it but doesn't quite have all the tools to put it together. She's in a fog??
Henry sees her potential and he's attracted so much so he's willing to make the big gesture, the offer of a safe, comfortable variation of the only role she understands at the moment.
But I don't get the feeling that he just wants to tie her back down, I think Henry genuinely wants to let her run so to speak.
I hate anthropomorphizing but Betty mentioned the Derby herself. She reminds me of a domesticated horse that has only known the restraint of the tack and bridle. When you remove those and show them the open pasture they don't really know how to behave at first, you have to walk them out into it bit by bit, let them get acquainted with the openness, the freedom.
#116 riverdaughter, I totally agree. I think we’re harder on Betty than on Don. Don’t get me wrong, I, too, am seduced by Don. But he minimizes Betty, lies to her constantly, and in telling her the truth, still lied. They are both culpable here. That said, I do think they belong together, and think the writers are playing out the evolutions of the 1960s through their marriage and will likely (hopefully?) reunite them better and stronger. Orphans need each other.
#138: I have a hunch Betty won’t remain an empty vessel. (And she’s not, anyway. She’s bristling under the confines of expectations society puts upon her.) SHe may still be learning—that Henry’s no great catch, for instance—but she’ll get there.
less is more: ditto
#150. I recall seeing Peggy smile more often in season 1, gazing at Don with such affection. He was the one who didn't notice back then; now the tables are turned.
Oops, I meant Betty smiling at Don. Freudian slip?
Sorry if that bums out the Don fans but he had it comin’.
I’m a “Don fan” in that I find his character more interesting than Betty’s; in fact, I’ve been missing many of the MM characters during this season’s emphasis on The Drapers of Ossining.
If the marriage ends, we won’t be seeing less of Don. We’ll be seeing less of Betty.
riverdaughter, must you stress that my understanding of the program is on a level far, far beneath yours? Maybe it's just different.
Poor Betty had an excellent education handed to her on a silver platter, but she managed to ignore it. As a student of anthropology, she learned about cultural roles–enough to pass the courses. But she never, ever, wondered if any of her readings might apply to her own life. Nope–she was going to marry a wonderful man & have lots & lots of children! Because, umm, just because….
Please do not put words in my mouth; I've never used the words "cold", "selfish" or "unloveable" about Betsy–although others have. But she's turned a cold face to people outside her family. Her closest "friend" is Francine–whom she hates. She set Sarah Beth up with Arthur in a sick little game–thereby losing a friend who might have been sufficiently upper middle class to be worthy of her time. When Henry dared send a woman to the Rockefeller fundraiser, Betty was rude to her.
And she had the gall to tell Bobby that only boring people got bored. She's bored with her life but can't be arsed to change it–unless some man offers her protection.
I don't "like" Don. John Hamm is a cutie, but Don is a complex & interesting fictional character. I hope that next season will show us more of the other interesting Mad Men & Women. And less of Poor Betty–unless she can grow beyond Bored Upper Middle Class Housewife.
…oops. Forgot to turn off the italics.
I completely disagree with the notion that Betty's rejecting the "Whorechild", Dick Whitman. If it were about material possessions and social climbing, she'd never have gotten involved with Henry Francis. A political operative, while having access to power, isn't a particularly high paying or glamorous position. By all indications Henry is from a working class family who probably had to move furniture to put himself through some local college.
What Betty is rejecting is the lie that Don created. Her life is a total sham. She's married to a man who lied to her every minute of every day they were together. He cast her into a role, took her for granted, and lived his life the way he wanted. I understand her rage at that and her belief that she could never believe another word he said. Why should she?
Betty fell in love with Don Draper. She fell out of love with Don Draper. Whether she can love Dick Whitman, or the mam Don will be remains to be seen.
not_bridget: Not better or worse. Just different.
Same thing with the New Testament or Ayn Rand or any of a dozen other things. I think I'm right; you think you're right. What's the diff?
Holy $#@%!, Batman! Do we know what kind of anthropology Betty studied? I just realized what a pairing of Henry and Betty means. He's a political operative for the Republicans. She's got a background in the study of humans and groups of humans and their behaviors. The Republicans are going to get their asses handed to them in 1964 and they spend a couple decades worming their way into the American psyche through careful study of human behavior and group dynamics. Ay-yay-yay! Betty Draper could be the next Mary Matalin!
You see her as cold, selfish and unlovable because you see Betty as a mother and a wife.
riverdaughter, I know this comment wasn't directed to me, but I'll respond anyway. I do see Betty as cold and selfish, but not because I can only cast her in the role of nurturing wife and mother. She is cold and selfish by pretty much any standard. She is a cold and selfish friend, a cold and selfish daughter, and a cold and selfish sister. Oh, and yes, she's also a cold and selfish mother. When have we ever seen her be anything BUT cold and selfish in her interactions with anyone? That's what frustrates me about her.
Betty Draper could be the next Mary Matalin!
You realize, riverdaughter, that this is not helping your case for sympathy for Betty.
Betty Draper could help Henry & other Republicans forge "The Southern Strategy." LBJ used his considerable political wiles to finally pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He thought it was the right thing to do, although he predicted the bill would lose the South for the Democratic party–for years to come.
Sure enough, Republican operatives decided to drop that "Party of Lincoln" bullshit & begin courting the diehard Southern segregationists. All over the South, many Democrats became Republicans. Up North, "The Liberal Republican" was hunted to extinction; Molly Ivins spoke nostalgically of that vanished breed.
I see Henry with a trusted role in the Nixon White House, Betty smiling brightly by his side. Remembering her admonition to Carla that the country wasn't ready for Civil Rights–as four girls were buried in Birmingham, all those years ago.
Deborah: Seriously(???) You seriously think that Betty’s shallow snobbishness is the reason she doesn’t love Don anymore? I don’t think I’ve heard her criticize his background once in the past two episodes. She’s never once said, “you’re not good enough for me†in word or deed.
riverdaughter, I never said anything about snobbishness. What did you read that you're attributing to me?
litbrit, welcome! I can't believe you're here, yay!
Oh rivery one, you're an inspiration.
We should now thank the sweet FSM that Don has just such a constipated relationship with Bets.
Imagine the implications if he had the blue/yellow pillow chat with Betty instead of Suzanne.
Betty takes that to Henry. It's classic Rovian electoral philosophy.
Two indistinguishable candidates side by side, 45% pick "A", 45% will choose"B";
you win the election by promising just enough to get six percent of the undecided remainder.
She would be Matalin light-years ahead of Matalin. The universe might be collapsing instead of expanding right now! HA!
Ok, this discussion has finally dragged me out of over a year of lurkdom…
1) While we're on the subject of music, every time I see Betty I think of Carly Simon's "That's the Way I've Always Heard it Should Be." Which will probably be more Sally's time in the 70's, but it's pretty clear that Betty would have been so much happier if she had been born in Sally's time instead of hers.
2) MW occasionally drops clues and snippets of who the real Dick Whitman is, as well as Betty's potential for growth and depth. What nags at me constantly is that the real tragedy here isn't the sham of a marriage that Don and Betty have, but the feeling that if Don and Betty could just be their authentic selves, they would have a real and fulfilling relationship.
@167 Seymourglass– you deserve to get some love from this board, so xoxo!
dd is mr. america, with a cute little satin sash across his hairy chest– debonair city man with deep dark rural secrets and hypocrisy in either form–excellent post!
First time poster, love the board/ a few things I wonder about:
1) Granpa Gene had a nice lincoln but didn't really seem like the well-off type–he was kinda of crude–so not sure where Betty gets off being so upper-crusty. Also his home didn't seem so impressive, and Betty's brother says he has no money–wouldn't he too have benefitted from the upbringing Betty supposedly had?
2) Sorry to point out the obvious–but Betty is a spoiled brat–she wanted the life she has with Don, she created it, the perfect house, kids, husband–and now we have to feel bad for her because she feels unfulfilled? How bad is her life really? She's beautiful, had lovely clothes, someone to take care of her kids and house, a sexy husband?? This was her dream, be careful what you wish for–she won't leave, to be with a man who might not be able to keep her the way she's accustomed to, why–even if he could she would never submit herself to that level of social embarassment. No one got divored in the early 60's, they stayed–they had affairs, that's why there were so many "swinging" bedroom communities in the '70's (but that's another tv series), lol!
great comments. Interesting to think of Henry/Don/Betty as America moving beyond innocence ala LBJ (who was NO innocent… he made Huey Long look like a saint) I don't imagine MM intends to be that literal about it, of course. MW does seem to throw up a lot of shadows on the wall of the cave.
Betty as a proto-Mary Matalin! ack!
When I find myself getting into a mode in which I pick apart the characters to decide who is right and who is wrong, I find lose the larger sense and enjoyment of what their stories want to tell me.
I don't do that when I read a novel – as in "side" with a character. I read to discover the story the author tells me.
Does anyone else notice or do that? I wonder if it has to do with the "flesh and bloodiness" of actors on a screen vs the words on the page that makes the difference.
I don't have an "issues" with Betty as she is – I find her annoying and cold and shallow and also sad and hurt and betrayed. I loved it in the first season when Sally got in trouble because of the dry cleaning but no problem for Betty with the plastic on Sally's head and all that. Isn't Betty's coldness part of that same presentation?
Seems like MM doesn't want us to be able to dismiss Betty like a Livia. She still gets moments intended to elicit sympathy. I'm glad for that because it makes her more interesting.
#174, I totally agree with your point about Don and Betty's marriage. I have a feeling the writers see this, too. They need to undergo separate personal revolutions before they can be together again. They'd be amazing then.
@177 esme– there are layers of meaning and context , so allegorically, one can stand back and look at party politics or mass culture/counterculture through the characters.
but on that particular tier devoted to symbolic action which is also a real life action, we are told by the writers which character is capable of what: betty is capable of shooting birds, but did not take her doctor up on his offer of aborting her unwanted pregnancy– now, i, personally, would have liked her character better had she chosen the reverse in both cases. that's just me. but it may also be someone else watching the show.
these things aren't only personal real life actions–they are also symbolic– betty's nickname in her marriage was 'birdie'– so she was perhaps foreshadowing a desire to obliterate that identity.
still, i know that when i am shown cruelty to animals, i am not being shown a sympathetic character whenever she (betty) or he (duck–another animal/bird name, and a man who set a dog loose in the streets of manhattan) is the one doing the cruelty.
the psychological implications of such sadism in a real person are of a lack of compassion, and most likely a less-than-stellar childhood, but the writers are showing us these actions for a reason. maybe that reason has yet to come to full flower.
esme- posted a link for ya at the Patsy post.
actually everyone's welcome to look. SAFE FOR WORK.
179 – I may not have stated myself well in the above post because I don't see how the things that I wrote relate to the issue of whether or not characters do things that are symbolic in nature. of course writers do this. they don't necessarily do a point-by-point and don't follow a diagnostic handbook, if they're any good.
I'm quite familiar with the way writers work. I had a grant from the national endowment for the arts related to my writing. I used to write professionally in more than one genre. Had the agent. Did the meetings. Did the work. I taught writing. I really and truly honestly "get" what writers do.
Betty shooting the birds is far different than Duck sending his dog out into the night. The story surrounding the two actions is vastly different. To claim that Betty is a sadist because she shot at the neighbor's birds because her children were afraid the dog would get shot simply doesn't rate a "pathological" diagnosis imo.
That was a funny moment for a lot of people. Not because we like to abuse animals (we don't) or because we would encourage anyone to deal with problems with neighbors in this way.
If you see that as a "pathological" rather than "funny" moment, that just indicates that we approach this story from very different mindsets. I would find it hard to believe that MW wrote that scene in the hopes that people would use it as proof of Betty's future as a serial killer.
I think Betty provides a litmus test… for how much a viewer is willing to allow a male character to "get away with" vs a female one.
Deborah: You said you liked DDD's comment. Or that you agreed with it. But this is what DDD wrote WRT Betty:
"Above all else Betty is a creature of her shallow family and while her family knew the importance of looking good they aren’t all that nice."
That is what I was referring to. Do you believe that Betty is shallow as a result of her family upbringing? I kinda think the exact opposite is true. She is NOT shallow. If she were, she wouldn't be going through so much angst. She'd just be content with the money and the clothes and wouldn't care too much about whether Don was cheating on her. She'd just do as her mother said and be happy with what she had and keep her mouth shut. If anything, this season has shown us just how deep Betty is. It's just that the world seems bent on keeping the truth from her.
riverdaughter, ddd made a great comment. I don't agree with every single word in it and I'm not prepared to defend every single word in it. That's unfair.
Deborah: Seriously(???) You seriously think that Betty’s shallow snobbishness is the reason she doesn’t love Don anymore? I don’t think I’ve heard her criticize his background once in the past two episodes. She’s never once said, “you’re not good enough for me” in word or deed.
Where the heck did this idea come from? Where’s the evidence? Maybe it has nothing to do with his background. I mean, she knows Roger Sterling. He’s a guy who was born with a silver cocktail shaker in his mouth and had all fhe benefits of social standing and she can’t stand him. If she was a real snob, she’d be kissing up to him even if he did make a pass at her.
It’s not her background that’s making her fall out of love with Don. It’s his behavior. Totally different thing.
I finally came to grips with what Don Draper signifies to me: humble roots, strong yet flawed morality, very concerned with appearances and a showing of strength; he is the allegory for the United States. The Kennedy assasination pulls back the veil and shows what America really is, behind the image of strength and invulnerabilty. Almost simultaneously, we see Don;s personal life finally come crashing down with Betty’s proclamation of no longer loving him. All this after Betty finally discoveres who he really is. As chaos envelopes the nation after the assaination of Kennedy and Oswald, so too does Don’s image oof the perfect nuclear family life come crashing down.
@182 esme "I don’t imagine MM intends to be that literal about it, of course. MW does seem to throw up a lot of shadows on the wall of the cave…Seems like MM doesn’t want us to be able to dismiss Betty like a Livia. She still gets moments intended to elicit sympathy. I’m glad for that because it makes her more interesting."
i just took note of your allusion to plato and came up with my own interpretations. obvs you have your own particular ones re. mw's desire to elicit sympathy (or not) for betty. i happen to disagree.
i'm glad you have a list of credentials, but whether you're a pro, an amateur, or whatever, it's okay, it's just the internet. i can be as armchair as i like and so can you– it's kinda nice.
@186 esme– i may have buried the lead here, but i am actually the president of the neutral planet– i just let the writers show-rather-than-tell as the saying goes, so when we get a scene of pete date-raping-cum-coercing-sex from an au pair, we can take it literally or not, but the realism of the characters has its consequences.
remember how heartbroken many viewers were when don didn't live up to our anachronistic expectations of slack-cutting for sal which resulted in sal being victimized twice? sal is still stepping out on the down-low, but that doesn't mean he deserves lucky lee's harrassment.
however, pete, on the other hand, will not be subjected to the whirlwind fated to sal, and it's too bad, because it would be poetic justice.
all the ibsen references others have made above going to betty's struggle for independence are dead-on, including the general weirdness of nora as a character (it's been so long, but i remember feeling alienated), so i get that she's def. 3-d
–maybe in higher relief, actually, because the bird-shooting to me was just as surreal as her actual dream of crushing a caterpillar in her hand– killing the nascent self to never be realized/wishing away her pregnancy– the funny thing to me is that this is all happening while she's seen to be repressed. just imagine what it will be like when she finally has her nervous breakdown. yowza!
and peggy– i thought what i've seen so far is a great character– they are all beautifully underwritten as someone else mentioned, but i find her more relatable than don, still a realistically flawed and likable character.
of course don is neither good nor bad: "I hate to break it to you but there is no big lie, there is no system – the universe is indifferent."–and so is don.
WOW. That episode absolutely blew me away. Definitely up there as one of the best Mad Men – and the last few weeks have been incredible.
But back to Betty.
I found that episode really painful which I do think was down to the writing the production and the acting. It was very hard to see her say to Don "I don't love you anymore."
And yet..
On top of being a guy who has lied to her every day of their marriage and continually screwed around on her, when the world is ending and she's telling him how upset she is what does he say?
"Lie down and take a pill."
UGGH!!
Don does NOT get it. He is STILL not listening to Betty! Betty is right when she says "You don't even hear me now."
I feel for Don. I really really do. But Meowser is right – he had it coming.
Did anyone notice that in this episode no one does what Don says? He doesn't ge the art director he wants. He threatens to go to Bert Cooper and is ignored. Don demands to know "what's going on here?" and no one even looks up at him. He tells the kids to turn the TV off. They ignore him and he ends up sitting down with them. Don's power is definitely on the wane.
Other interesting shots – obviously Don looking in at his own family in the kitchen at the end of the episode, but also did you notice that whenever he is with the kids Betty is not in the room, and whenever Betty's with the kids Don is not in the room? That scene where he comes home, sees the kids and no Betty on the couch is especially foreboding.
Good good stuff!
Oh, and one more thing about Betty. I've been wondering if the most significant thing Henry said to her was not "Will you marry me?" but "There's another way you can live" (or something like that.)
the bird-shooting to me was just as surreal as her actual dream of crushing a caterpillar in her hand– killing the nascent self to never be realized/wishing away her pregnancy– the funny thing to me is that this is all happening while she’s seen to be repressed. just imagine what it will be like when she finally has her nervous breakdown. yowza!
we're in complete agreement on this. seems we just found different ways to get there.
@190 esme– right on!
agreed about that armchair thing.
the point I was trying to make in the first graph is that I didn’t think Henry was going to be as corrupt as LBJ – but who knows. shadows, not a wax model, iow.
when I wrote about labeling characters as “good or bad” that was to indicate a way of thinking about the characters that doesn’t pathologize them.
do you really think that MW intends to portray Betty as a one-dimensional person with no redeeming qualities?
what about Pete? or Don? or Peggy?
Deborah: I’m not asking you to defend every word of it. I’m asking you if you believe this describes Betty accurately. Does it?
I’m very concerned with the number of people who describe Betty as shallow and somehow suggest that she made her bed, now she has to lie in it. I’m not saying that YOU personally have suggested this but doesn’t it kind set your teeth on edge? Remember Rhianna? Remember how shocked we were when she took the bastard back after he hit her? Wouldn’t it have been better if she had kissed the guy and discovered that she had no feelings for the man who punched her silly in the face?
Can’t Betty have that epiphany? He was kissing her and she realized that he had hurt her too much. Their relationship is based on a sexual attraction anyway. The zing isn’t there for her now. What else is left?
The fantasy of her accepting him after his confession ignores the fact that there is too much water under the bridge. The confession was just the cherry on the sundae. I don’t think she gives a fig about the material goods, although she probably doesn’t want her kids to grow up poor. I mean, she HAS all of that stuff right now and she can continue to have all of that. All she needs to do is… nothing. We will know by the last episode if that’s the kind of person Betty is. I’m guessing that she’s not that kind of person. I think Betty is much more complex than that.
I too have to wonder if Betty's response to Don's confession would have been different if he had taken the initiative to tell her, instead of having to be cornered into it. Yeah, he could have made up some story after she opened the drawer like, "I got Anna pregnant when I was a teenager, we got married, and then she lost the baby, and I decided to change my name after that," and he gets some points for not piling more lies on the lie pile. And yes, it's also possible he wanted to be found out, since he could have done a better job of hiding the evidence (he could have just kept money in the locked drawer at home and kept all the other stuff in a locked drawer at work).
But would he have told her directly? All on his own? Ever?
No, I don't think Don alone has made Betty miserable. The main cause of her misery is the societal expectation of the time that every woman must have children young, whether she wants to or not, whether she's ready or not, and that any woman who didn't want the station wagon in the burbs was some freak not to be trusted. (Trudy gets off the hook somewhat because she can't get pregnant; people get to feel sorry for her rather than scorn her.) This is a woman almost hilariously ill-suited to parenthood, only it's not funny because she actually has three kids.
Personally, I think she as some autistic tendancies. She has the brains but not the empathy for others. She has a flat personality. And one sylable responses, hand wringing (stemming) under times of stress. Years ago pediatricians referred to her type as "refridgerator moms".
She is emotionally remote. That is familair to Dick/Don. A regular person would have sensed something was up with him before she married him.
Susan, lots of neurotypical people have "autistic tendencies" of some kind. And as an aspie, I have to contradict the idea that we (as a group) don't care about or feel for other people. Some might not, but plenty of nonautistic people don't either. If Betty has anything "interesting" going on mentally, it's extremely high anxiety, plus she was raised by incredibly unaffectionate people, and that style of parenting was still common (though not by any means universal) by the time I was a kid. And I'm nine years younger than Sally. (I remember my parents barking commands at me, oh yes. And they're not autistic.)
And yeah, lots of "regular" women are fooled badly by men, and even more so then, when women were encouraged to jump at the first proposal they got from anyone who looked "presentable."
Meowser – thanks for the first hand insight. my son is also an aspie and he is probably the sweetest and kindest person I know… tho he also has personality traits that distinguish his behavior as those in the autistic range.
Bettelheim was the one who "blamed" autism on "cold mothers." Whether a mother was cold or not. That's because he was ignorant about issues of genetics and was in thrall to a trend in thought that served some purpose but was grossly inadequate to actually understand the human condition – a diagnosis that relied upon literature rather than the scientific method.
It's pretty amazing that we seem, as a culture to have pathologized human relations to such an extent that someone who was raised in a strict German household, according to the confines of strictures upon women in the 1950s, cannot simply be someone who acts according to the way in which she was raised and who is not happy in her role as a parent or wife to a man who is constantly dishonest with her.
but, whatever.
Like esme, I'm the mom of an Aspie, and there is no way Betty is Aspie or has any autistic tendencies. Coldness is not, in isolation, an autistic trait. I don't see anything else that in any way reflects an autism-spectrum experience or affect.
#187 and #189 Yes.
See, Deborah, while I understand what you’re trying to say, I’m not sure if Betty’s “locked heart” should necessarily be equated with lying. If she’s lying because she hasn’t “unburdened herself in a reciprocal way,” that’s one issue. But what would you have her do? I think she *has* in fact had an ephiphany of sorts, and in typical Betty fashion, as someone who lets others act it out for her–in this case both the overwhelming events of the weekend, especially the shooting of Oswald, which have reverberated the question of “What is going on here?” in her own life, and seeing Don and Henry together at the wedding and realizing her marriage is overSo she’s halfway there; that she’s not able to “unburden” herself to Don by expressing her own internal angst, rage and frustration but makes it Don’s problem (i.e.,” I don’t love you anymore”) is not only typical of how Betty operates, but is also enhanced by the fact that, while Don may have “unburdened” himself, it comes after nearly ten years of lying, cheating and deceit, PLUS, it’s so obvious that, as Betty said, he hasn’t and continues not to “hear” her in this time of crisis. And when someone isn’t hearing you, how can you truly reconstruct or heal something so damaged? So yes, I felt deeply saddened for Don, because his worst fears have come true, and yet, he continues, almost willfully, to be blinded to both Betty and the truth and *still* operates by the credo of “this never happened,” even , though of course, the president is dead and so is his marriage.
And, I may be in the minority, but I actually like Henry; he has refused to play Betty’s games, and he’s direct and honest with her, and not afraid to drive a Ford Galaxy to her Lincoln. Yes, I did a double-take when he proposed marriage to her, but marriage was still the best option circa 1963–that’s still what the vast majority of people did before divorce and cohabitation and “blended families” became more common. That said, I think it would be a terrible mistake for Betty to just go out of the fire and into the frying pan; it would just be a repeat of the scenario of not really knowing someone, with a heavy layer of Daddy issues thrown on top. I think Henry could be good for Betty, but only if she can become more like Mona and stand on her own two feet instead of needing the gilded cage she thought Don was providing. As #189, said, the most intriguing thing Henry’s suggesting, isn’t marriage per se, but “other ways of living.”
I can’t believe you’re here, yay!
Deborah, I can't believe it took me this long to stumble onto your site (not to mention how long it took me to watch Mad Men in the first place), but how perfect, how utterly perfect. Of course this would be a show you'd love.
(I was just recalling that time at the Blog Whose Name I Won't Mention when we were discussing our name meaning "a bee" and both liking boxes, of all things, for reasons we agreed were probably metaphorical more than anything else. And now here our paths cross again, this time over this wonderful series about all these shiny, pretty boxes and their troubling contents. How very cool.)
Damn, I wish I could come up north for the finale party. Lucky you and lucky everyone! Next year, for sure. Unless, of course, you have a premiere party.
Again, Brava to you and Roberta. (My husband's name is Robert, btw.) You are now bookmarked.
Betty's parenting skills are often looked down upon. Yes, she is a self-described "Nordic" or cold person but by 60's standards she's not all that different from a lot of other upper middle class mothers of the time.
With Carla's help she keeps a clean house, the children are clean and wear clean clothes, they're served 3 meals a day and they are expected to listen to what their parents say. Bobby and Sally are not abused mentally or physically so again, by 60's standards Betty is doing a pretty stellar job. Furthermore, Betty manages to make things look good to the outside world everyday even though she would probably be more content to sleep the day away. Keeping up appearances and keeping up with the Jone's were also very important. Betty gets full marks for both.
Today we live in a kid centric world where if you don't take your baby to a Mommy and Me singing class when they're 5mos. old your are a lousy parent. Today kids are programed into everything from judo to hip-hop dancing from the moment they are born. There is a whole industry based on selling overpriced clothing, shoes, parenting books and organic food for your children. In the upper middle class world of today Betty would be signing her kids up for all of the above and more.
But it's 1963 and as a child of the that era children were expected to obey their parents. Most children were not treated as friends by their parents and yes, we took piano lessons and ballet but we were expected to conform to our parent's lives, not the other way around. Parents were not there to entertain you, you were expected to go outside and play with your siblings or a friend. I remember not being allowed to play in the living room because that was for the adults. The "rec" room was me and brother to hang out in.
In the year 2009 kids often have full run of the house and are used to being the center of attention.
Betty's parenting skills are often looked down upon. Yes, she is a self-described "Nordic" or cold person but by 60's standards she's not all that different from a lot of other upper middle class mothers of the time.
With Carla's help she keeps a clean house, the children are clean and wear clean clothes, they're served 3 meals a day and they are expected to listen to what their parents say. Bobby and Sally are not abused mentally or physically so again, by 60's standards Betty is doing a pretty stellar job. Furthermore, Betty manages to make things look good to the outside world everyday even though she would probably be more content to sleep the day away. Keeping up appearances and keeping up with the Jone's were also very important. Betty gets full marks for both.
Today we live in a kid centric world where if you don't take your baby to a Mommy and Me singing class when they're 5mos. old your are a lousy parent. Today kids are programed into everything from judo to hip-hop dancing from the moment they are born. There is a whole industry based on selling overpriced clothing, shoes, parenting books and organic food for your children. In the upper middle class world of today Betty would be signing her kids up for all of the above and more.
But it's 1963 and as a child of the that era children were expected to obey their parents. Most children were not treated as friends by their parents and yes, we took piano lessons and ballet but we were expected to conform to our parent's lives, not the other way around. Parents were not there to entertain you, you were expected to go outside and play with your siblings or a friend. I remember not being allowed to play in the living room because that was for the adults. The "rec" room was me and brother to hang out in. In Pete Campell's words,: "imagine a thing like that"
All this to say, you're free to loathe or like Betty but don't judge her parenting skills by the year 2009. It's 1963 in Tarry Town and the "kids are alright"
#200: Amen.
I felt terribly sad for Don in Sunday's episode. We know he is a liar and a serial cheater and he treats his wife more like an object than a person so why so sad?
Despite Don's partial confession to Betty he continues to live a lie. He refuses to take full responsibility for the damage he has done. Over and over again, he tries to "sweep it under the rug". He dismisses Betty's pain and keeps telling her it will take time. He wants to forget that Betty ever found the keys to his desk and go on like nothing happened. In short, he does not want to examine his actions or take responsibility for the mess he's currently in.
If Betty does leave Don I hope he won't delude himself into thinking that she opted out of the marriage because she viewed him as "too low class" That would be the ultimate tradgedy. If Betty does indeed leave, it will be mainly because she feels she can't trust her husband anymore.
In order for Don to evole. it's imperative that he take ownership for his lies. Otherwise, Don will probably continue to drift from woman to woman and from one lie to the next.
[Reposting this from a different thread, cuz I think it might be more on-topic here.]
So is it just obvious that Betty’s outrage at the revelation of Don’s real identity is nothing other than the release of her repressed anger at his infidelity, or is that me? Essentially, I think she sees it (though of course she isn't saying so) as the breach of a contract she had perceived in the marriage: his affairs were the price she had to accept as long as Don could provide the storybook life she thought she wanted (or was supposed to want). But when that life itself was revealed to be a lie (though a lie “Don†never really had much choice in), the weight of the infidelities struck with full force because the offsetting benefit was proven hollow.
Now because she has been forced outside of her marriage to find herself, Betty is mimicking Don’s betrayals (count me among those who don’t see a future of any kind for Betty and Henry) and has convinced herself — has she really? — that she no longer loves Don. Meanwhile, Don has been confronted with the possibility of the penultimate loss: not just of family but of identity itself, reminded of his love for betty, and we can only assume has an opportunity for a fresh start if he is given a second chance. But would a chastened, tame Don Draper be of interest to Betty?
Draper throughout his unrestrained years in my view operated in a kind of dual-dimensional psychological world out of Kafka or other literature of the time being depicted. This is fairly obvious given the backstory presented for him. In his unfaithful sex life, I saw not callous disregard for his wife and family, but rather a near-dissociative belief that his behavior when he is in a place not tightly tied to the identity bound up in his name (home or work) simply was not taking place in the same world as those places. Greenwich Village was portrayed in season one as a parallel universe, but when Roger cavorts with a client’s twin daughters in the Sterling Cooper offices (scene of many dalliances), Draper demures. This disassociation combined with the prevailing cultural norm of the world he inhabited (adultery may be “wrong,†but a real man doesn’t settle for just one), dismantled just about every external check on his behavior. But now he has had a powerful jolt that could provide that check going forward. But will an inhibited Don Draper be any more than Dick Whitman pretending to be someone else?
Dark Peggy @#21 speaks I'm guessing for a sizable number of viewers (myself definitely included, at least in part), though perhaps not the majority of those here…
Personally, I feel the Draper marriage is now completely stale and beyond salvage. A new baby couldn't refresh their marriage. A wild romantic holiday couldn't refresh their marriage. Don confessing his darkest secrets couldn't refresh their marriage. All these things should have brought them closer together, but instead these developments seemed to have emphasised the emptiness of their marriage. Love ain't here anymore.
The Drapers are now both unfaithful to each other, seeking escape in other flings/fantasises and lying at every turn. Their marriage has been ruined for a long time and Betty is finally admitting to it, while Don is wanting them to take pills and numb themselves to the reality. I definitely think they are headed for divorce. But why stop at divorce? Betty knows that Don broke the law. If Betty discovers the Farrell affair she would have both the grounds for divorcing Don and keeping the kids, but she might also have a motive for reporting Don to the police. Don has more to lose than his wife, but his home, his children, his reputation, his job, his freedom, etc.
I'm really not interested in Don/Betty as a love story. Never have been. I think the more interesting aspect of this relationship is how they both fight the emptiness of their marriage. And for the first time Betty has the power to triumph over Don in this long struggle.
#205, Falafel, I agree. I got up super early today (why oh why AMC do you have to show the best thing you've got going at such insane hours?) to watch "The Grownups" yet again to see if anything had changed for me. And if anything, it just reinforced my feeling that these two never really loved each other–only the *idea* of each other. That's why, it really doesn't matter if Betty's heart is locked, or if she in fact isn't being completely honest with Don, i.e., a "liar." Because she never was a fully developed person to begin with, and the relationship was never based on truth–it was a lie on both their parts from the start, and even after Don's come clean, it's too little, too late. Especially considering his reaction in the aftermath of the assassination. Betty is at least honest enough to acknowledge the relationship is broken, even if she isn't fully upfront about her growing extramarital relationship–but when has Don ever been fully upfront in that department?
I'm no lover of Betty. In real life, we would never be friends. And I don't think she's fully grown up, or that she should jump immediately into Henry Francis' arms. She needs to be alone for a good long while. But after viewing this three times, I don't think she's a liar, and the flirtations she's been involved with are nothing compared to ten solid years of lying, cheating and withholding on Don's part. If she can't unlock her heart, I don't blame her.
189 Cherielabombe
Well spotted!
No one may come back here but this is the proper thread to acknowledge one gorgeous way to cut to black.
Don and Betty are the same people in my opinion. A Lie Is A Lie! However BIG or small! The wall gets built slower with small lies however it's still a wall! Don is a whore and Betty is a closet whore and a closet lesbian and we know Don leaves his balls at the door! Hypocrisy, it is the death of us all!
#209-Betty is a closet lesbian? What? She's not into her husband anymore but that doesn't make her a lesbian.
Betty surely will get more closet space in the divorce settlement.
"Don, leave those things outside, I don't want you tracking mud all over my floor."
Oh Sweet Hypocrisy, take me now!
Cancel that last beseechment, I want to watch the final episode.
I will fight you off, turn you away. I'm a hypocrite except when I'm not.
Betty = closet lesbian = wishful thinking?
She wouldn’t float my boat, but perhaps for some, she might.
Now Joan, on the other hand …
And for the first time Betty has the power to triumph over Don in this long struggle.
That is one dark way of looking at this show. She could have opened her mouth to change her marriage at any time in the last three years. Instead, it is apparently about winning and losing.
I think I need to clear up the "closet lesbian" comment. I am not saying Betty is into women at all!!!! She castrates men and I prefer my men with their testicles intact. Remember she called her daughter a little lesbian because she used Don's tools…………..
I think I need to clear up the “closet lesbian†comment. I am not saying Betty is into women at all!!!! She castrates men and I prefer my men with their testicles intact. Remember she called her daughter a little lesbian because she used Don’s tools…………
Sorry, not "cleared up" yet.
I doubt lesbians are interested in castrating men; in fact, they're probably not interested in that part (those parts?) of a man at all.
Certain unevolved folks refer to feminists ("Feminazis") as "castrating females"–usually in very high voices. Again, not true. And Betty is very far from feminism, alas.
Sometimes a tool is just a tool.
LOM, the stickler, chimes in.
LOM agrees with not_Bridget.
AND IF Betty figuratively castrates males, she would be best described as a "misandrist" from the root misandry. Contrast with misogyny.
Sexual preference would have nothing to do with literal or figurative violence to anyone of any gender really.
Chiming out.
I should correct the above. First sentence should read:
"LOM, the elitist stickler, chimes in."
Gracias.
# 129 gypsy howell
"jeethe loooweethe" — hilarious! Thanks for a great laugh. I love Kiernan Shipka and her adorable lisp.
On another topic, was anyone else as affected as I was by the perfect simulation of the late afternoon November light in the bedroom when Don goes upstairs after Betty says she doesn't love him? It's a technical masterpiece. And it's a beautiful, sad expression of the utter desolation he feels then. Holy smokes, what a show.
@ #219: oh, yes! on top of the magnificent writing and performance, you've got top quality art direction on this show… I was touched by the scene, in every way, and I think it was the one of the best in the whole episode, if not the entire series. Donald/Dick revealed and crushed… at last.
Not that I want him to stay that way…
Poor Donald Draper.
[...] with. So up it stays, hard and closed, and if the wall is there, it locks away the love. Previously I posted about how Betty’s locked heart is rooted in an internal dishonesty. She won’t open to Don [...]
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