Welcome to our next-to-last open thread for season three. My heart is pounding.
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437 Responses to “Open Thread: The Grown-Ups”
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@Rosey: Yeah, I should clarify that my theory about Don’s suicide is new only to me.
Despite the opening scene with the falling man, it never really crossed my mind that Don would do himself in. It seems more like a possibility now, but who knows. I’ve learned to expect the unexpected from this show.
Also, I wouldn’t rule out a suicide at season’s end, but I can’t figure out who it would be.
Kudos to the keen eyes that caught Don’s wardrobe = Lee Harvey Oswald.
A quick add to that: it’s also the same outfit Gene Kelly wears in SINGING IN THE RAIN in the sequence for “Moses” with Donald O’Connor. Don also wears a similar shirt/sweater/pants combo when they all have to work overtime for American Airlines.
http://www.amny.com/polopoly_fs/1.1108113.1245812443!image/1035733774.jpg_gen/derivatives/feature_416/1035733774.jpg
I can't figure out why Duck did that either.
Someone will commit suicide? Maybe Betty, like Eustacia Vye in 'Return of the Native'? If someone's going to go then Suzanne does seem the most likely, I agree, but there's already been a suicide on this show.
My respect for Betty will increase leagues if she leaves Don and doesn't marry Henry. Remember that she has her father's house now, she has a place to go. I can't help but wonder if she would take Sally and Bobby with her.
And why did Duck unplug the TV, rather than just turn it off?
I’m not here to bash Don, and I know Betts can be a doozy sometimes but while he (Don) gave Betts a life with him, a home, and children it still was really just a scrim, a well painted backdrop for what they both probably hoped/thought would be a life of happiness and contentment. I know I’d try to convince myself that I didn’t love Don if I found out my life was built upon a lie, and it would be easy enough to hate him for that. I don’t know if Betty has quite figured out where her life is going but the reality of hurting Don rings true.
While everyone is speculating a suicide, I am throwing in my guess- Joan’s Husband. But then again I think he will be killed in Veitnam.
I think Henery is using Betty. polotical reasons? I don’t know why he is using her but I think he is.
#405: "A quick add to that: it’s also the same outfit Gene Kelly wears in SINGING IN THE RAIN in the sequence for “Moses†with Donald O’Connor. Don also wears a similar shirt/sweater/pants combo when they all have to work overtime for American Airlines."
Kelly's character is SINGING IN THE RAIN is also named Don. Interesting that Betty's favorite movie is about a man named Don who specializes in creating illusions (movies) that are very distinctly divorced from reality (as rendered obvious when the films switch to sound, the aftermath of which becomes the focal point of the movie).
The parallels don't end there. Don Lockwood (Kelly's character) worked his way up the ladder to the peak of his profession from very humble beginnings–starting with a song and dance vaudeville hobo act–and ends up leaving his blonde paramour, who he's dating solely for appearances, for a demure, earthy brunette, although by that point, the comparison is stretching pretty thin.
I have to say- I am a Big DD fan- but I am even down on him now- as Betty has rejected him, he’s kind of lost his status even in my eyes. She may have been the key – not his brilliance or the job or the accolades- to his mysitque.
Did anyone notice how panicky- and Not DD-like – he looked as he danced with her? It was as if he were really a different person.
I wonder if next years theme will be about redemption?
Losing his family is as low as he can get- I don’t think he’ll suicide.
Anyone think he’ll volunteer for Vietnam to right his past wrongs?
#415 Sundance: Wow, thanks! I'm going to have to rewatch SITR now!
Actually I noticed that while Don may be good at many things, he’s a horrible dancer…did you notice him bopping up and down all over the place?
Is it just me, or is Peggy starting to look slightly heavier again after losing her baby weight? I'm worried Duck has knocked her up.
# 414 – "And why did Duck unplug the TV, rather than just turn it off?"
I wondered that too.
I'm guessing that if Peggy arrived and had heard fragments of the early news reports and wanted Duck to turn on the TV, he could've pretended that it set was broken — so they could get on with the "nooner".
[and I still think it was more of a "quickie" than a nice, leisurely "nooner" @ 346]
# 409 Michelle Says:
November 2nd, 2009 at 8:17 pm
as Betty has rejected him, he’s kind of lost his status even in my eyes. She may have been the key – not his brilliance or the job or the accolades- to his mysitque.
****
Yeah, Betty was a status symbol for him, and that was important because despite his outward confidence he seems to have pretty low self-esteem. Now he may have lost her for good. You are right, he definitely had a “panicky” quality about him. Don is worried that without the beautiful, sophisticated Betty by his side, validating him, he will be diminished in the eyes of others. Hmmm…so now I don’t know if I believe that he really loves Betty or not. Maybe it’s just the validation that is so important to him? Having a woman like Suzanne, for example, by his side doesn’t quite make the same impression on other people.
Something else that keeps bothering me more and more…Duck’s behavior. Was he really so hard up for a nooner (pun intended) that he unplugged the TV? He hears a report about the President being shot and he doesn’t want it to spoil the mood? Really? REALLY?
But he cared enough to turn it back on AFTER? REALLY?
ANd he doesn’t even turn to Peggy when they hear the news…it’s like she’s not there…gotta call the family…REALLY?
@ 412 dancewosleeping- I don't see anything wrong with him calling his family. He's divorced, but he still cares about them. He wants to tell them the news if they haven't heard. He has older children, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to talk to them after a national tragedy. He wants to be part of their lives, despite the divorce.
I took it as an odd compliment to Peggy. He sees her as an adult. In Duck's mind, she can deal with the situation. She doesn't need to talk to someone the way someone younger would. I know Duck's daughter isn't that much younger than Peggy, but trust me on this, Duck still sees his daughter as daddy's little girl.
Paul will be "thrilled" when he sees Peggy has re-done his Aqua-net commercial. Like Jackie versus Marilyn, his idea is scrapped because of death.
This is minutia, but for what it's worth, Henry's car is indeed a 1963 Ford, but it's not even a Galaxie; it's a Custom 500, which was the cheapest el-strippo full-sized Ford that year. I read it as a government car, with the blackwalls and dog-dish hubcaps.
#409 & #410 – I thought Don's bad dancing was symbolic of not being in synch with his wife. Perhaps it's another clue to his humble beginnings.
I appreciate the post illuminating why Betts would like Singing in the Rain so much and "Helen Bishop's" detailing how the five senses were invoked. I think that subconsiously helped what could have been an otherwise somewhat static ep.
#415 you're a genius. ;o)
Re Henry's ability to give Betty the lifestyle she's used to, I believe he's said that he was a lawyer before taking on his government job, so I don't think he's strapped for cash. Granted, the salary he's pulling for Rockefeller probably isn't all that much compared to Don, but he's probably set up well enough. He can always go back to practice law, which explains his easy willingness to drop out of the Rockefeller campaign.
As for his car, maybe it is a government car as Jeff says, or maybe he's just not into social climbing that much, which makes you wonder what Betty sees in him. He doesn't strike me as being a wolf in sheep's clothing. To me, he comes off as a confident guy who was immediately attracted to Betty and had no problem letting her know about it. I think he's sincere. Judging from the reactions of Francine and the other Junior League ladies, he has no problems attracting women, so I don't think he needs to throw around words like marriage just to get Betty or any other woman in bed, unless he meant it.
If he can make Betty happy, I say more power to them. Girl is miserable.
Re Henry's ability to give Betty the lifestyle she's used to, I believe he's said that he was a lawyer before taking on his government job, so I don't think he's strapped for cash. Granted, the salary he's pulling for Rockefeller probably isn't all that much compared to Don, but he's probably set up well enough. He can always go back to practice law, which explains his easy willingness to drop out of the Rockefeller campaign.
As for his car, maybe it is a government car as Jeff says, or maybe he's just not into social climbing that much, which makes you wonder what Betty sees in him. He doesn't strike me as being a wolf in sheep's clothing. To me, he comes off as a confident guy who was immediately attracted to Betty and had no problem letting her know about it. I think he's sincere. Judging from the reactions of Francine and the other Junior League ladies, he has no problems attracting women, so I don't think he needs to throw around words like marriage just to get Betty or any other woman in bed, unless he meant it.
If he can make Betty happy, I say more power to him. Girl is miserable.
Oops, sorry for the double post. I have the world's worst DSL!
Another person cannot make you happy. You have to be happy within yourself and love yourself first. It is too much responsibility for another to have that burden of making their spouse happy all the time.
I absolutely hate when I'm dating someone new and they say,"You make me so happy. I haven't been this happy with anyone before." Ughhhhhh, don't put that on me! Everyone is happy in the beginning, until the honey moon period is over.
@spike, Betty is a miserable person PERIOD. I don't think it matters who she is with, she will always be an emotional wreck. She needs psychological help and maybe anti-depressants.
#404 – I'm a first time poster, and am glad to see someone finally speculating on Ken Cosgrove's role. I feel he's the "everyman" – probably not perfect, but no skeletons in his closet either.
Ken seems to have a natural gentlemanliness about him – asking Sal if it was okay to call his wife to thank her for dinner; give Sheila a quick and unaffected kiss on the cheek when she was in the office; accpeting sharing job duties with Pete without any angst; rushing to help cut-off-foot Guy after the accident.
While he seem to be playing the field with women, there's no sense that he's treated any woman wrong. I hope they don't tamper much with Ken, it's nice to see a character who's like most of us – just a regular guy getting along in the world in a regular way.
@ 429 PJ-When it comes to women, Ken strikes my a playboy. He goes from woman to woman. He's the one with the little black book full of phone numbers. I don't think he'd ever force himself on a woman. He strikes me as like Roger in that respect-if she doesn't want me, it's her loss.
I don't want them to tamper with Ken, but I would like to know a little more about him. We've never even seen the inside of his apartment, and I'm curious to see where he lives.
@Helen Bishop (#368): Very nice observations about sensory input. I think we could also add Betty's exasperated "You can't even hear me right now!" and Don's surprisingly self-aware "No, I can't."
Better late than never…..
PEGGY get the powder you don't want to return to work "greasy & calm".
Regarding "Singin in the Rain":
"The parallels don’t end there. Don Lockwood (Kelly’s character) worked his way up the ladder to the peak of his profession from very humble beginnings–starting with a song and dance vaudeville hobo act–and ends up leaving his blonde paramour, who he’s dating solely for appearances, for a demure, earthy brunette, although by that point, the comparison is stretching pretty thin."
Actually, I don't believe this is completely true. The Don Lockwood never really dated the Lina Lamont character. We only saw him escort her to two movie premieres. That's it. Other than that, he spent most of the movie refusing her romantic overtures and refusing to date her officially.
Another interesting thing is that the Don Lockwood character was the one who exposed the Lina Lamont character.
But who plays Cosmo Brown to his Don Lockwood? In previous seasons I'd say Roger, but at this point he's alone.
# # 417 debrika Says:
"Is it just me, or is Peggy starting to look slightly heavier again after losing her baby weight? I’m worried Duck has knocked her up."
I thought the same thing. In the final scene as she turned to go into Sterling's office to watch the funeral, she looked like chubby Peggy from S1.
I like Henry Francis, but is it possible he'll be indited for the liquor scandal that was mentioned on the radio in one of the early season three episodes?
I don't know where to put this, so:
Here are some random specs:
Office:
Sal and Joan will be re-hired in a kind of "La Ronde" plot twist, where everything winds up as it was at the beginning.
The antithesis of the end of season two – Don has a contract and winds up working for Duck.
Pete and Ken are back to their original positions. Duck grooms Peggy; she needs a mentor!
Home:
Betty's brother has contact with the stewardess and puts one over on Don and Betty re: house.
Don is offered some figurehead position on an advisory board of Lincoln Center or some museum and he and Betty join forces to become a power couple.
Connie dumps Don. Lucky Strike dumps SC, but under the new owners, they inherit some really neat clients.
I also thought the episode might take place in the future OR the past.