Trick-or-Treat Anachronism
Look, the moment when Carlton asks Don who he’s dressed as is beautiful. I get it. Symbolism. Woo. But it’s a total anachronism. Parents didn’t take kids as old as Sally and Bobby trick-or-treating in 1963. That’s very modern, that’s what you call “helicopter parenting.”
Believe me, as late as 1971, when I was 10 and Roberta was 6 (more or less the same ages as Sally and Bobby), I was taking her trick-or-treating without parental supervision. I was going door-to-door selling Girl Scout cookies at that age. All by myself. A very protective parent might say “stay on the block” in those days. Or not. But accompany the kids? Are you kidding?
AMCtv.com
October 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
My sister, brother and I were accompanied by our parents (well, one or the other since they were separated) when we went trick-or-treating in the 70s. In fact, I can recall seeing a few parents who were also accompanying their kids.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
I tend to agree with DRush76… In the late 60’s/early 70’s, my parents took us trick-or-treating. I even remember an aunt going with us one year dressed as a clown. My borther and I weren’t allowed to go on our own until Middle School (mid 70s).
October 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Yep, me too. My dad always took my brother and me trick-or-treating, all through the 70s. We always looked forward to spending the time with him.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Concur in part, oppose in part. It depends on location and parental strictness.
In our neighborhood, the kids would have gone to the door by themselves, but the parents would be down on the sidewalk watching them, chatting and maybe having a smoke. Some parents drove their kids, and waited in the car while they went up to the houses.
Universal symbol for don’t bother us: the porch light is not on.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I was Bobby’s age in 1963 and I’m pretty sure I remember that either my mom or dad accompanied us trick-or-treating at that age, and continued to for at least few more years.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Parent-free here, up until I stopped going in the early seventies. That seemed anachronistic to me, too.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I was born in ‘65, grew up in a town like Ossining (on the CT side) and parents were NEVER out with their kids during trick-or-treating. That was part of the whole point and the fun of it all. I’m sorry that’s changed and also have to ask: who’s answering the door and handing out the candy if the parents have to go out with their kids?
Lynda Barry and Judy Blume, to name only two, wrote about trick-or-treating “back then” and the kids are unchaperoned – and Barry grew up in a tough urban neighborhood.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Yep, the helicopter parent is a new phenomenon. I’m roughly the same age and I don’t remember parents attaching themselves by the umbilical cord back in the 60’s and 70’s. I have no idea why parents are so irrationally fearful these days but I have my theories. The FBI crime statistics do not indicate a rise in child abductions over the past 50 years. The actual number of abductions by strangers is infinitesimally small. But stories about the rare occurances that happen every year make sensational television. Then parents try to one up each other on the protectiveness scale. Like that’s supposed to make you a better parent. From what I can see, we have a generation of hothouse tomatoes that will wither and die at the first sign of environmental stress and millions of lost childhoods.
But human beings aren’t always rational and Americans in particular seem to be incapable of evaluating risk. Go figure.
Parents like myself, who allow our kids to act like kids and make them go outside and play without supervision and take on responsibilities are called freerangers. There’s even a blog for people like us and our numbers seem to be growing. Or maybe there are more of us admitting that the whole helicopter phenomenon has reached farcical heights of hysterics and we’re not giving into the ridiculous peer pressure anymore.
Freerangkids.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I did think it was odd that Betty didn’t stay home to hand-out candy. My dad always took us while my mom stayed home (candy duty). But I was born in 1970 so I’m thinking a parent would most likely NOT accompany a kid (let alone BOTH parents) in 1963. Maybe it was more about them (Don/Betty) being in costume as the Happy Family and accompanying the kids for show. Or maybe they really ARE trying to be the happy family, you know, fake-it-until-you-make-it kind of thing.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
I was born in 1965 and can remember trick-or-treating from before I started kindergarten. I remember that there were kids who trick-or-treated without their parents, and I really wanted to have that freedom. My parents didn’t allow us to trick-or-treat without them until I was 12 and could accompany my younger siblings. And then I didn’t want to go trick-or-treating, because it seemed like a childish thing! I wanted to take part in all the mischief, like hanging toilet paper from the school principal’s trees!
October 28th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
#8 Riverdaughter, we had a serial rapist in our quiet little town during the 1970s who preyed on girls as young as 11, including one of my classmates. That’s why my parents were “so irrationally fearful.” The world changed in the 70s in a lot of places.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
How did this happen? Are the writers on MM so young that they were not aware of this or didn’t they speak to anyone about their experiences?
October 31, 1954 was the first time I went trickertreating with my older sisters in the LI suburbs. I was 5 and we definitely did not have grownups with us. Elaine was 8 and she was a hobo, wearing dad’s “garbage” jacket and an old white dress shirt. She used burnt cork to make the grime on her face. Pat, 6, was an old lady wearing a white wig made of cotton batting and my grandmothers dress stuffed with rags. I was a princess wearing mom’s scratchy crinoline. We carried pillowcases for all our loot. It was dark and cold and the streets were crawling with kids of all ages and the only adults were inside the doorways with “little kids” handing out stuff. Word spread really fast on which houses had candy apples and which had raisins. We were forbidden to eat any of our loot until we got home and mom went through it. I always thought that was her excuse to steal the Hershey bars.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I’m older and when I was 8, in 1953, I was trick or treating on the streets of Chicago with other kids but NO parents. I was even taking a bus to the park with a friend to go swimming.
By the early 60’s ,when living in a suburb of Chicago, I was responsibile for taking the younger siblings out, but never with any parents around.
Parents were just not that involved in kids day to day activities and we certainly grew up quickly.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
I didn’t really see Betty and Don going with them as a huge deal…maybe because I’m the child of the 80s/90s. I saw it as a way for Betty and Don to bond as a family. You know, go out with your dressed up kids, look at the other kids’ costumes, say hello to the neighbors, etc.
I don’t remember if both my parents took us (my sister and I)out in the 90s for Trick o Treating but I do remember going with an adult whether it was my mom, aunt, dad, friend’s parent, etc. But when I was Sally/Bobby’s age…I wasn’t allowed to go off by myself.
On the show, I never heard Sally say ‘mom, I’m going down to the store for some caramels’. She was mostly out with Bobby playing in the yard or over at Francine’s.
I think about my grandfather or father during those times…they grew up in NYC and basically yelled to their parents where they were going, with who and what time they will be back (hence, no cellphones at the time). Everywhere they went was walking distance. Upstate, I don’t know if there are any parks, stores, candy shops walking distance from the Drapers.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
I was born in ‘61 and the parents stayed home to give out the candy while the kids roamed the neighborhood. All the moms/families knew each other back then, so it wasn’t quite so scary (for the adults) going out in your own neighborhood in the dark. I had older siblings so when I was real young, I went with them.
These days, no one trick-or-treats in their own neighborhoods anymore. The parents take the kids downtown and they t-o-t at businesses, which decorate outrageously and give out the candy. Either that, or they go to specific neighborhoods which decorate and make a big deal and have good candy. I don’t bother to buy Halloween candy anymore because we just end up eating it ourselves.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I’m a 1961 baby — my Mom or sister went t-o-ting with me til my friend and I were deemed old enough to go alone, which I believe was at 8 or 9 years old. I remember felling really cool one year because my Dad brought home several boxes of costumes (Casper the Ghost, a bride, Snow White) from the television station where he worked. The classic costumes of the ’60’s with the stiff mask which oyu couldn’t see out of!
Sponsors would bring items,both food and non-food, to the station for the live commercials, and just leave the stuff behind. Dad brought a lot of stuff home back in those days!
Pillowcases for candy as well.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
brenda: That’s my point. The world HASN’T changed since the 70’s. There aren’t more of them. It’s just our perception of them that has changed.
As for serial rapists, my own aunt was abducted by a stranger and raped when she was 9 years old. She was one of the few children who managed to get away. My grandparents were very good parents but they didn’t get all crazy with fear that there was a rapist lurking behind every door. They knew that such events were exceedingly rare. Whenever I stayed with them, I had free range of the neighborhood. The only restriction was that we not go into the woods near our house unless we were in groups of three.
And by the way, I only recently checked that sex offenders website and in spite of the high population density where I live, I would really have to go out of my way to find one in a 10 mile radius. Most assaults happen with people who are not strangers. They are friends or family members. And for them, they don’t have to wait until Halloween to get your kids. The best you can do is teach your kids what to look for and how to get away. Depriving them of a childhood and a chance to grow up is going to result in them not knowing how to navigate in the world and not being able to trust anyone. Where would we be as a society if we could never depend on anyone to be kind and decent?
October 28th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I’m not going to get into the “Don and Betty- would they or wouldn’t they?” question (I lived in the country in the early 60s, so my parents had to drive us to a neighborhood if we were going to hit more than a couple of houses on Halloween) but you know what would have been realistic and fun? If we recognized parts of Betty & Don’s wardrobes in the kids’ costumes. That’s how it worked in our house when you went as either a gypsy or a hobo, which we often did — you scrounged through the closets.
I was hoping to see Betty’s cast-off Pucci dress re-engineered as Sally’s gypsy outfit.
October 28th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
And btw, for me, that last line was too “on the nose” as they’re calling it these days, especially coupled with the significant closeup of Don. Totally unnecessary and obvious. As was the way they directed Don dropping the key on the desk in the confrontation scene. Instead of the closeup on Don’s hand, they should have stayed in the two shot and let Hamm carry it. Minor quibbles, I know, but I noticed them the first time I watched it, which I usually don’t do with this show.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I was a mid 60’s to mid 70’s trick or treater. Always went with my siblings and the neighbor boys. Our dads went with us, moms stayed home and handed out candy. Our dads always seemed to enjoy the stroll around the neighborhood and the “guy time.” I can recall much hearty laughter and the glow of cigarettes in the dark, but they always stayed on the sidewalk while we went up to the doors and back.
Don’t know if I’d consider it an anachronism. Based on the comments, seems to depend where you grew up and how you were parented.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@ #8 riverdaughter — Just this past week, a little girl outside of Jacksonville, FL was walking home with her siblings and a group of friends, ran ahead of them, and just. disappeared. Found dead in a landfill in GA in around 48 hours. According to news reports, approximately 80-90 kids walked that same route on their way to and from school. It’s these sorts of stories that turn some parents become helicopters.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
#9 Rachel — I think you’ve got it spot on– The Happy Family went trick-or-treating that night, all in costumes
October 28th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I’m with riverdaughter. The reason stranger abduction is so sensationalized is because it’s so rare. I know several people who have been sexually assaulted – who doesn’t? – and in only one case was it by a stranger. (And I say this as someone who did have someone try to abduct her as a child.)
I have a friend whose mother won’t let his children, her grandchildren, play in the DRIVEWAY because “someone could come and kidnap you”. The only person who beat or raped my friend growing up was his own father, this grandmother’s husband, in his own house and with her knowledge if not consent. It wasn’t strangers that she had to protect her children from, and they had no protection from the person who did hurt them.
To get back to Mad Men, I thought it strange that both Betty and Don would take the children trick-or-treating and leave no one at home to hand out candy. Maybe the point was that they would do this as a family? I grew up in the 70s and we didn’t have parents take us trick-or-treating at Sally and Bobby’s ages either, but perhaps Sally and Bobby wanted their parents to come.
I think I mentioned this before but I was struck by Don wearing a full suit, tie and hat to go trick-or-treating. He was wearing his Don Draper costume.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Instead of the closeup on Don’s hand, they should have stayed in the two shot and let Hamm carry it.
Donny Brook – interesting because I, too, thought that shot was too “heavy-handed.”
the two scenes you mention were the only two that stuck out to me – they drew unnecessary attention in an otherwise flawless series of scenes.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Mama Louise: I understand that tragedies do happen but they are very, VERY rare. It’s something like less than 200 per year. That’s out of a population of 300 million? That’s 0.000066667%. That number has not increased in many decades. There is no surge in childhood abductions. I think that Lenore Skenazy at Freerangekids has some estimate of how long you have to leave your child unattended in the street before he/she is abducted by a stranger and it’s 400 years or 400 thouseand years or something like that.
It. Just. Doesn’t. Happen. Very. Often.
But we act like it happens all the time, in our neighborhoods and that is simply not true. The thing is, the news reports on just about all of the cases out there and hype them to sensational levels. It’s very emotional and people feed on that emotion. So, now we have a nation full of distrustful worryworts who can’t leave their kids for even a second. the level of panic and hysteria and vigilance is unnecessary and getting more and more intrusive and inconvenient all of the time.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
One parent went with us in the late 1960s — but stayed at the curb. The kids ran up the walkway to each house on our own.
At home we threw out any candy that wasn’t wrapped and cut the apples to check for razor blades. But I think that memory is from the early 1970s.
I’d like to find out when store-bought Halloween costumes and those horrible plastic masks became so dominant. I remember Beatles costumes and the blonde princess mask that weren’t linked to a specific toy or product. The commercial tie-ins came much later.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Also, Don’s hat is anachronistic. It’s the full-on Kennedy era — no more men’s hats, right? I get that it’s his costume.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
No parents here either, Deb, and this was in the late 60’s when I was a kid.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I am the forsaken Pete/Peggy offspring, so too young to scavenge the neighborhood in ‘63, but Mom used decorate our house to a Disney-like Haunted Mansion degree, she dressed up to hand out candy, and really enjoyed the Theatre of it all, so it would have taken photographic proof of a bloody Michael Myers stalking around to get to her to leave the house and escort us around.
But other parents came to the porch with their small ones, (maybe it was just to our stoop, hmm. . .that might make some sense.)
riverd- good link. Saw her interviewed on PBS this summer I think. A most rational and grounded person, very refreshing. Wasn’t she the one who taught her son to ride the subway at age four or something?
As to the query, unusual but no anachronism vote from me.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
I was born in ‘67 and we were basically accompanied by one parent every time we went out trick-or-treating, and that seemed to be the rule among the kids on our street, although I will admit that typically the parent hung out at the end of the driveway while the kids went up to the porch. I thought Don and Betty both being right up on the step was not realistic, but necessary for the scene. Not having one parent stay to give out candy was way more unrealistic (unless we assume Carla was lurking about somewhere and she was taking care of that).
Interestingly, every year my parents had the discussion about who would stay and give out candy and who would take the kids out. EVERY YEAR Ma would say “I took the kids out last year, so why don’t you take them out this year and I’ll hand out candy.” It took Dad like 5 years to figure out the scam.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I haven’t looked at all the responses yet, but might this just be a case of different parents in different communities doing different things. Every community has their own customs and habits. Even today I’m sure that there are things that people in other places do that I would never do and never heard of but that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible that someone is doing it. It seems a bit reductionist for someone to say, “This was never done at that time” beyond something physical that didn’t exist or wasn’t invented yet or a specific historical event. Maybe most people didn’t do some particular thing, like taking their kids trick-or-treating, or going jogging etc, doesn’t mean NO ONE at that time ever did such and such a thing. Things generally don’t just pop up out of no-where and ususally there are people who are outliers, or early-adapters, or bleeding age and do something that seems odd at first, and then becomes popular or standard.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
As with so many of these behavioral anachronism discussions, how can there be an absolute right or wrong answer? There is a wide range of behavior (and speech patterns and all these other things we endlessly ruminate on and nitpick on this show) within any given time period and within any group of people. So how can any of us say “That would NEVER have happened” just because it wasn’t typical of our own experience?
If we’re talking about historical events (Cronkite announced JFK’s death at 1:40 pm 11/22/63 EST) or inventions (The IBM Selectric didn’t come out until 196X) or even to some degree fashion, sure — there can true anachronisms or errors. But we’re getting into “NO ONE’S parents went trick or treating with their kids until exactly 7:32 pm on October 31, 1982″
Well, it’s a fun exercise to make us all walk down Memory Lane, I suppose. But the degree of emphaticism (I wish that were a real word – it should be) in these discussions always cracks me up.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
once again, dark peggy, you and I are channelling each other. But you type faster (or think faster)
October 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Bleeding edge, not bleeding age, though that would be interesting.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
oh, and as far as trick or treating – had to go with an older sibling who didn’t want me around, along with other kids in the neighborhood who were younger. I remember the THRILL of being out at night far away from home – what seemed like miles and miles away. looking back, I guess it was at least the equivalent of 16 blocks.
it wasn’t until we were 12 that we were allowed to take the bus downtown and roam around for a day without anyone having any idea where we were.
but otherwise, we played outside all day and no one seemed worried about where we were until it was time for dinner. there were so many kids around that we didn’t have to go far.
I had relatives who lived on farms and would go there for months in the summer and wander around woods, ride horses and get lost because the paths were old wagon trains that no one had seen for decades and still make it back safely before dark. Oh, and by the time I was 12 I was babysitting those kids who were wandering around the woods with me.
there was a girl who disappeared when she went down to the ferry boat landing. My parents would never discuss it, even tho the girl lived next door to one of my good friends. I never knew if she ran away or if she was killed by someone else, which added to the strangeness. but it was a taboo subject. nevertheless, that incident didn’t stop any of us from roaming where we would…just not down to the river.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
gypsy, I had a friend in classmate in college who took a few classes with me and we were often either thinking the same thing or completing each other’s sentences and one prof declared that we shared a brain! I guess you are my second brain-sharer
October 28th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
It was certainly a conscious choice to stage the scene with Sally in front of Don and Bobby in front of Betty. The other way would have been more humorous but, perhaps, too obvious for Matt Weiner’s sensibilities. I love the look on both kids’ faces in the pic chosen to illustrate this thread.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Dark Peggy: There were kids in my neighborhood who weren’t allowed to cross the street or ride their bikes anywhere and whose parents didn’t let them go anywhere. But as I recall, they were the exception rather than the rule. From what I could tell, kids would start trick or treating with their older siblings pretty early or with kids from the neighborhood. Maybe really little kids under 5 would be accompanied by a parent but it too was a rarity. Parents were strictly hands off for most of my childhood. My parents taught me to read in first grade because I skipped Kindergarten and didn’t know my alphabet. But after I was literate, they NEVER helped me with my homework. They let us stay out pretty late in the summer playing games. They made us walk to the skating rink a couple of miles away when I was about 11 or 12. I starting babysitting when I was 11. Walked to the store for candy. Did a lot of stuff that kids in the same socio economic group no longer do today. There was always at least one helicopter parent in every neighborhood we lived in and I moved a lot as a kid because my dad was military. But the kids always felt sorry for the kids who had one of those kinds of parents and other parents just thought they were nutz. They looked like control freaks. (and still do to some of us)
October 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Maybe Don and Betty went because Bobby asked Don if he’d go and after everything that had just happened, how could he refuse? Betty went because to be apart that evening wouldn’t have been right …
And if they didn’t go, the “And who are you supposed to be?” line wouldn’t make it into the script …
October 28th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
dark peggy – maybe we should divide up our comments – you do half, and I’ll do half!
October 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Well, I think if you’re talking about a late 50s/early 60s (pre’”sprawl”) suburban community, where each house is on a couple of acres of land, sometimes more, the distance between the houses would make it difficult for kids to cover much territory without being driven by mom or dad. I mean, I could be wrong, but I’d be willing to say it was less an anachronism than just YMMV.
October 28th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
My experience with trick or treating in the early 60’s involved going in a group that included my older brother and the two neighbor boys. No parents were with us or with anyone else that I remember. We could have used a little supervision, especially when the youngest neighbor boy, drowning in an elaborate donkey suit, couldn’t see well enough to keep up with us and we lost him. He somehow found his way home on his own. We didn’t even notice that he was missing and none of the parents were panicked. Talk about a different time!
October 28th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Don and Betty are trick-or-treating with the kids because it creates a brilliant ending to the episode. It feels awkward, doesn’t it? And it is supposed to. I highly doubt that the writers “didn’t know” because they have pretty accurately portrayed 60’s style parenting throughout the course of the show so far. This is artistic license here — remember, this isn’t “The Wonder Years” or “American Dreams”. There is way more going on here than just 60’s nostalgia.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Born in ‘63, parent-free trick-or-treater, as well — at least in the crucial Halloween celebrating years between the ages of about 5 and 12, I think. We’d rather forego the experience entirely than have Mom and Dad with us on a night like that. You couldn’t get into any mischief or REALLY enjoy your candy if the folks were with you. Typically, my brother and I were accompanied by one or two of our teenage relatives — a cousin or young aunt or uncle, who might have been in high school or even jr. high at the time. And if they weren’t available, we tagged along with one of our neighbor friends who had an older sibling. Going with real teenagers meant the evening would be really spooky and fun.
Furthermore, if you were a kid who lived in a neighborhood where there were lots of other kids, no way in the world would you want your house to be the one that DIDN’T hand out candy. Someone had to be home to greet the other trick-or-treaters. Your house would get t-p’d, egged, or water ballooned, otherwise. And no way would you be allowed to participate in the day-after candy trades at school if your house was dark on Halloween.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Maybe Carla was there handing out candy and we just didn’t see her.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Always be careful never to say always or never…I remember my dad taking my brother and sister in the late 60s. They would have been 8 or 9. We lived in a subdivision in a Chicago suburb where everybody knew everybody, or there was at most one degree of separation from someone you knew, for about a half-mile in any direction.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Totally true. I was born in 1963, and trick or treated by myself for most of elementary school (say 1970-75). We wore our costumes to school, and trick or treated our way home (sans parents). Then took a break, and went out again (ALONE) and stayed out til dinnertime. Usually didn’t go out again after supper. Noticed that right away, both that the kids were waiting for dad to come home from work, and that the parents went with them.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
When I trick or treated in the 1960s, one of my parents went with us until my older sister was around 10 and I was 8. So maybe next year Don and Betty will let Sally and Bobby go off on their own. But considering Sally has been known to knock her brother down and pummel with her fists, maybe sending them out alone in the dark together still won’t be a good idea then.
Like most parents nowadays, I or another parent went with our kids until they were about 11 or 12(but stayed on the street–unless the house blonged to friends of ours (like Don/Betty and Carlton/Francine; then of course we went right up to the door). So a year or two difference between the 60s and 00s. And by the way, all the kids around here trick or treat in their own neighborhood, or in the neighborhood of the friend they go out with (usually picking whichever one had shorter driveways and houses closer together).
Here’s what’s changed since the 60s: Mothers aren’t home during the day, they’re off at work, so there’s no one around to keep an eye on things. People don’t stay in the neighborhood for years and year, they come and go, so families don’t know their neighbors. ( I can still name all the families on teh block where I grew up, but not all those on teh street I’ve lived for the last 12 years.) People drive everywhere, all the time, so the streets aren’t safe for children at night. Oh, and there are maps on the internet that show exactly where the pedophoiles live, and you can see that they’re EVERYWHERE–and those are only the one’s that have registered. So yeah, maybe not all parents just simply shrug off the possibilty of their 9 year old being raped.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
And remember “To Kill a Mockingbird?” Jem and Scout were out by themselves on Halloween. Weren’t they around the same age as Sally and Bobby?
Okay, so maybe that’s not the best example, considering a man tried to attack them, but still. There is a pop culture precedent…
October 28th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I was born in 1950 and allowed to go “outside and play” outside in view of my mother on my own as early as four years old. Those were the years when kids also roamed the suburban neighborhoods free after school, evenings before dark, all summer long, and yes, for Halloween.
On Halloween, we went out in groups of friends our age, parents stayed home to hand out candy.
Nor did my parents “check” our candy afterwards (unless you count Dad stealing from it.)
However that was pre-cable and urban legends of razor-blades in the apples, poisoned candy and the like: actual child abductions and child molesting also weren’t fodder on the evening news.
So yes, Don and Betty were an anachronism and set up for the line “So who are you supposed to be?” — which in and of itself wasn’t an anachronism, and quite clever, if a bit on the nose.
(I also went door-to-door, alone, to sell Girl Scout cookies, nuts and candy for church projects — although I had a stay-at-home mother.)
October 28th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I’m Sally Draper’s age (we were born in 1954), and I went trick-or-treating in Colonia, NJ, where we lived for ten years after moving out of Newark in 1956. In a housing development of 200 nearly identical split-levels (some were mirror images of others, some had front entrances to the living room foyer, others had side entries) on small lots, you got really good at accumulating maximum T-o-T booty in minimum time. Necco wafers, Bit-O-Honeys, Mary Janes, Good ‘n’ Plenties, Krackles, what have you. I remember the names of at least 30 families within two blocks whose kids I played with, it was that thick with baby-boomers. There was always a bigger kid to lead the charge, so we didn’t think we needed to have parents around. My mother seriously got into making costumes. One year, I was Nero (plastic gold fiddle, old leather shoes cut up into sandals and spray-painted gold, gold laurel wreath), my brother was a sheikh (white headress and brown robes with ball fringe), and my sister was Carmen Miranda (shiny turquoise dress with red bandana tied at the waist, hat with plastic fruit). Parents may have been around–we just didn’t know it if they were. We were just too amped up on sugar.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
We trick or treated without parents in the late 50’s but didn’t start untill we were probably 9 or 10. we lived in a semi-suburban area that was a string of houses along a road…no sidewalks but there was no traffic after dark. on the other side of the road there was a good sized woods that was suitably scary at night although us guys played in it with my dog during the day. At the end of the road(an intersection) there was a run-down old house where an old hermit lived alone. We were always daring each other to “go all the way to Curvie’s house”. My parents were not concerned…Curvie was harmless. The best part of the night was coming home to show Mom and Dad what we got.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I was born in 1959. I grew up in a working class suburb of Chicago. My Dad always went with us until I stopped trick-or-treating when I was 12. There were kids everywhere and parents too. So I didn’t see it as odd.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
And that’s a great pic up above too…Betty in blue, holding a blanketed baby Gene close to her body (I don’t remember if she even had the carriage with her at all?) Betty looks quite Madonna-esque in this picture, so maternal. It looks like Betty already made up her mind to maintain her role and keep her family together? Suddenly she seems so full of strength.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I was born in the spring of 1963 (was a pumpkin that year; wonder why Baby Gene didn’t have a costume?) and in my safe midwestern suburb parents always went with elementary-school kids. The dads would stay on the sidewalk, sometimes drinking a beer, but they would walk groups of us from house to house while the moms stayed home to hand out the candy. We trick-or-treated this way until 1973 when we moved to a country that didn’t do Halloween. It was totally the norm.
Sometimes, later in the evening, junior high and high-school boys would show up for the last of the candy and I doubt they were escorted but kids of Sally and Bobby’s age would’ve been in my area, and it was extremely low-crime.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#50 – There is a bio of Horton Foote, screenwriter of “To Kill a Mockingbird” in this week’s New Yorker, as well as a review the current revival of “Bye Bye Birdie.” Perhaps I’ve wandered off topic, but Foote would have been 31 in 1964 and the article offers two different artistic temperaments (Foote and Tennessee Williams) during the time of MM. Fun to think of Foote (age 31 in 1964) and Williams (age 54 in 1964) were doing while all those fustrated writers are doing time at SC…Perhaps fodder for off-season conversation?
October 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
frustrated by my typo above…
October 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I don’t have good memories of Halloween as a kid. I do remember parents being with their kids trick or treating (1965ish). I made good memories for my child.
I called her after reading this posting and a few replies and asked her if she felt I was over bearing by taking her trick or treating. She said oh my god no mom thank you for caring.
So while the image above might not be “accurate” for the times I do remember some parents taking their kids around.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Re: the dilemma of no one being home to hand out candy
When Dad was still working and Mom had to take my toddler baby sister trick or treating because my brother and I whined about having to come all the way back home over previously covered territory when the baby inevitably got too tired or cranky and we were far from done amassing our loot …
… Mom would put a big bowl of candy on a stool on the front porch under the light with a sign, “Please take one or two, but not the whole bowl!”
And everyone in our neighborhood knew everyone else, so if some kid came home with a pillow sack full of an especially overwhelming number of small bags of M&Ms, after that kid’s mom went through the candy on arrival home, the culprit would have found him/herself on our doorstep the next day making a red-faced apology. Knowing that kept all of us honest at houses with unattended bowls of candy.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
@ #49 MadMom: Great points. I think the fact that people move around so much more, and don’t know their neighbors the way they used to plays a huge role. Just changes the collective mindset.
I think things tapered off gradually…Lots of 60’s kids more or less raised their own kids the same way they were raised. At least the first one or two kids. As the 80’s wore on things really shifted. I think the Adam Walsh case had a LOT to do with this. It really made an impact on people, as I recall. And things like always holding your kid’s hand in the store and not letting them out of your sight became standard practice. But, to me it looks to me like things are gradually changing back again. People are less concerned about the “dangers” out there because it’s not so shocking anymore.
October 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Maybe, just maybe, this is the ONE and ONLY time both Betty and Don went trick or treating with their kids (Don offered that one or the other of them could stay home with Gene, but Betty wanted both of them to go). So maybe it wasn’t so much an anachronism; rather, it was an anomaly.
And further, maybe they’ve previously decided that Sally has to be 10 before she and Bobby can go by themselves after dark. That’s not so unreasonable, even back then.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Up until the 1970’s, or there abouts, halloween was a true children’s holiday. Adults were out of the picture other than they had to provide treats or face the tricks of young. I was born in 1951 and my parents never escorted me nor my brother and sisters on Halloween night. They stayed home and handed out candy.
We also acted on our threats and would soap the windows of houses that were dark and not giving out treats. I belive the “trick” part of the celbration ended with my generation. I have yet to meet a trick-or-treater since who has done a “trick.” This custom mostly degenerated into petty vandallism with teens destroying jack-o-lanterns (“smashing pumpkins”) of people who gave out treats– and should have been protected from such mayhem.
The last year I trick-or-treated was 1964– I was 13 years old. As a teen, I never wore a cosume on Halloween and only did the vandalism thing. Some time in the late-1960’s or early 1970’s the stories of razor blades in apples and such made the rounds not to mention (true) stories of children being abducted– although not necessarily on Haloween night. A good parent after this time would not let his or her child out without a watchful eye of an adult.
In the early-1970’s I was invited to my first Halloween party for adults. Since this time Halloween has become a holiday for adults and children. Of course it has been totally commercialized.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Slighty off-topic, but I came across another anachronism on the “Mad Men Blog.” Within the Season 3 Scrap Book there is a copy of Don Draper’s employment agreement. The legal corporate name of the agency is written as “Sterling Cooper Advertising L.L.C.” However, the Limited Liability Company Law in New York was signed into law on July 26, 1994 and went into effect on October 24, 1994.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
In our community in the 50s and 60s, we went on our own, bunches of kids at night, running through lawns and on the streets totally unsupervised. I think the hours were something like from 7 – 10. When my son was young, in the 70s, Trick or Treat was during the afternoon and I think parents were required to go with you. I remember that sometime between the 60s and 70s, there were deaths and/or kidnappings.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
I grew up in in the late ’60s/early ’70s. Our parents did not go trick or treating with us but we also did not go out at night, either. Our trick or treating was done after school. Night was for the older kids. We were told to be vigilant. Razor blades in apples and LSD in candy were drummed into our heads as potential threats. I recall once getting some gum that looked like it had “something” in it, and we kids convinced ourselves it was indeed LSD (I think mainly to scare ourselves and our parents) so we threw it out. I think it was probably just stale. I don’t even know how one would conceal a razor blade in an apple, but we believed wholeheartedly that if we got any apples while trick or treating they would be the last apples we ever ate.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
roseyv, we’ve seen people walk and drive on the Draper’s street many times; those houses are close enough together.
TJ, good catch!!
October 28th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
I’m quite new to your website, but I’ve noticed a couple of anachronisms (at least anachronisms in my experience). Regarding Greg and his residency. In my experience, physicians complete their residencies and then one or two, depending on size of department, are asked to stay on an extra year as chief resident(s). They get a little more $$$. But the rest of, having completed their residencies, go on to practice, making “real doctor” money. So, Greg should have been making more money than the chief resident. It is also highly, highly, highly unlikely that Greg would have just been booted out because he didn’t have the magic fingers.
Another thing I’ve noticed is that Mrs. Olson’s character is supposed to be Norwegian, but has the demeanor of an Irish Catholic guilt-inspiring mother. I’m from an Irish Catholic family and husband is from a Norwegian Lutheran one. There is a huge difference. The greatest percentage of Norwegians are Lutheran. Norwegians are practical and a “real” Mrs. Olson would be more likely to saw the legs off Peggy’s gift TV and make something useful than send her on a guilt trip. Norwegians are generally happier than Mrs. Olson. But, this just may be my experience.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
Born in 1966…Dad and his drink walked a respectable pace behind us while we knocked on doors. Mom and other neighbors would gather on a driveway and hand out candy. Actually, this is what I will be doing Saturday night! Never had a store bought costume and I recall being a hobo quite a few times.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
TJ & Deborah – Did you also notice that Don is now pulling in the BIG BUCKS. His new salary is $75k. That’s some nice moolah in 1963!
http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/mad-men-season-3-scrapbook/don-draper-contract.php
Also in the same scrapbook is the ill-fated re-org plan, which shows Don’s other direct reports. Interestingly, we’ve never met the TV Production guy or Don’s copy chief. Odd don’t you think that Don would be having all these meetings with his copy underlings, and we’ve never once (to my knowledge) met or even heard of his copy chief? Oh well, maybe they aren’t as fun and interesting as the Peggy and the Chipmunks.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
D’oh – I meant to also mention that on the re-org chart, PPL is listed as an LLC too.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
@ gypsy howell- I think you’re right. Different customs for different places, as seen by the comments above. I really don’t think there’s a right or wrong here.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
#16, Mama Louise, I’m also a 1961 baby, and since I had 7 older siblings, my Mom or Dad never came out with me, but I never went alone (until ! was @ 12) I’m pretty sure that Don and Betty came along on this outing so the script would be served. But I suspect that only the youngest kids went out at night with their parents on Halloween. If it was just Don or Betty taking the kids out, it would have been more believable (no way would a Mom take out her baby on a cold Autumn night) One of them would have been home with the baby and handing out candy.
This may be a slight anachronism (depending on your local situation) in the ’60’s, but I forgive the writers since it was worth the looks on B&D’s faces when asked “And who are you supposed to be?”
October 28th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Is it possible that Don and Betty are keeping a little bit of a tighter leash on Sally given her behavior this season? Especially in terms of not sending her and Bobby out trick or treating together, what with their fisticuffs a few episodes back? I know that growing up, there were times that my parents wouldn’t leave my brother and I alone, not because we weren’t old enough, but because we had a tendency to fight like cats and dogs when left to our own devices.
Another thought was that Betty wanted to take Baby Gene, to show him off to the neighbors and/or to involve him in the trick or treating experience (Baby’s First Halloween), and that Don went with her as a sign of his commitment in this fragile stage of their relationship.
As for the waiting at the curb/going to the door with the kids issue, it seems obvious to me that, what with it being Carlton and Francine’s home, it would only be natural for them to go to the door and interact with Carlton. And while the ‘and who are you supposed to be’ line was a bit on the nose, it wasn’t at all forced or out of context–just a mundane holiday expression that unintentionally took on a deeper meaning given the situation.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
That house belonged to friends of Don and Betty. Why wouldn’t they have walked up the porch to see their friends? Sheesh.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
And while the ‘and who are you supposed to be’ line was a bit on the nose, it wasn’t at all forced or out of context–just a mundane holiday expression that unintentionally took on a deeper meaning given the situation.
Honestly, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made some similar wisecrack to acquaintances when they’ve brought their kids to the door. I guess I’m not all that original after all.
October 28th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Born in 1952, with 8 younger siblings, the last born in 1966 so we saw a LOT of trick or treating. Some parents accompanied smaller kids, usually standing on the side walk and reminding the youngsters to say “thank you” AFTER the “trick or treat!” We got to go out in a group without parents when I was about 9 or 10, but only within certain parameters. We could not go all the heck over town, even though it’s only about 3 miles square.
For what it’s worth, Halloween became more of a children’s holiday with the advent of the boomers. Yes, kids trick or treated long before that (see “Meet Me In St. Louis”), but adults also dressed up and went to house parties or from bar to bar – or so my paternal grandmother (born 1893) told me, and knowing what a cut-up she was, I believe her. And, alas, things got ugly in the 70s with razor blades and pins hidden in apples. It didn’t happen as often as reported (lots of hoaxes) but it did occur, for some reason a ot in New Jersey at one point. To this day our local hospital offers free X-Raying of Halloween candy.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
OT again, but so many interesting artifacts from the AMC MM scrapbook – the divorce decree!
Now we know when Don & Betts got married — May 1953 (3 months after the divorce, which was 2/14/53) Soooo, Betts WASN’T pregnant when they got married I guess. Isn’t Sally’s bd in April sometime?
I also didn’t know there was a 60 day waiting period between when you got divorced and when you could remarry.
A thing like that!
October 28th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
“Odd don’t you think that Don would be having all these meetings with his copy underlings, and we’ve never once (to my knowledge) met or even heard of his copy chief?”
Is it possible that Don basically serves as his own copy chief, and Adam Rowe was another chap the British were planning to import to further pad the bureaucracy?
October 28th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
#73: Good point. They may have waited at the foot of the walk of strangers’ homes but walked up to the home of Francine and Carlton just to greet them. In fact it would be odd if they HAD stayed out at the sidewalk, now that I think about it.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Dev — maybe, although Guy implied that other than himself coming aboard and Harry’s promotion, there were no other shakeups at SC. Plus, wouldn’t Don have raised his hand and said excuse me, but who the heck is this Adam guy? (OK, he would have waited until after the meeting, but still…)
October 28th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
oh, and just to note how some things have changed in other ways. I invited some of my nieces and nephews to stay with me for a week one summer when they were middle school age so that my kids could spend some time with them.
one of my sibs is a fundamentalist (I’m from the south… everyone has fundie relatives, it seems.) this niece told me how they celebrated Halloween when she was 10, 11, 12 – by creating a Haunted House in their megachurch that featured aborted fetuses and women writhing in hell who had had an abortion, along with others, especially homosexuals and they probably threw Darwin in there too but my niece might not have recognized the face…
anyway, this same niece, when we were patting out hamburgers to grill, started going off on the pattie she was working on about how she HATED. (smack) HER. (smack) PARENTS. (kapow, hamburger!) It was pretty amazing to see because the kids of the agnostics, atheists and “eh-religious – (i.e. easter, christmas, a couple of times every few months) were all sort of like… huh?
this pasta-farian was glad my kids didn’t have to bear the weight of the cultural wars on their small shoulders.
because THAT was really creepy scary to know people were doing this to kids.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
esme- a fellow pasta-farian! All hail the great FSM.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Deb, thanks for saying this. I tried to make the same point under the “Do We Have a Theme?” thread:
” # 59 White T Jim B Says:
October 27th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
( . . . )
3. While it makes a killer scene, I thought it strange to see both Drapers accompanying the children on trick-or-treat. In the 60s I thought kids were on their own. I remember I was. Besides, who’s handing out candy at the Draper’s house then? If the house is unattended, what if Ms Farrell comes by? Could she be psycho enough to trick-or-treat at their doorstep?”
While many are saying it’s credible because their parents accompanied them, I’m thinking of Betty;s overall parenting style (“Go outside!”) and it makes me believe she couldn’t be arsed to follow them around the neighborhood.
and #27 Phil, I also heard that JFK killed hat sales, just as Clark Gable hurt the underwear market. As others have opined, it probably wasn’t all at once though. I bet by 1968 he’ll have shed it (if the series gets that far).
October 28th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
@69, gypsy – Yeah, that’s about $525,000 in today’s money. As Sally would say “Geez, Louise!”
October 28th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Don’s speech about storebought Halloween costumes certainly rang a bell – it’s the same one my parents used to give in the late ’70’s! At the time, I just wanted the same kind of costumes the other kids were wearing, but I grew up to be an amateur costumer so I appreciate the creativity boost they gave me!
Mom went with us, Dad stayed home to give out candy. But I knew kids who went without parents. It depended on what neighborhood you lived in, and what your family tradition was. I knew one girl whose mother made a big pancake dinner every Halloween night, with a coin dropped into each pancake. The idea was, the kids would eat more dinner trying to get the coins, and be too full to eat a ton of candy.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
well, gypsy, I’m sort of lapsed, I guess. I did make tortellini vegetable and turkey soup the other day so I guess that’s sort of a sacrament. body of semonila, all that.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
oops. forgot to add.. R’amen.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
In_cha’allah.
October 28th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
#47 – I agree – not only did we go without parents (a 10 or 12 year old would lead a pack of kids) – but we went right after school when it was still LIGHT OUT – and came home for dinner/homework when it got dark. Today kids go with their parents and wait until dark -but back in the day I don’t recall trick or treaters much past 6:30 or 7 at night (which would be the time Don got home). I grew up in the tri-state area too – so this is a NY thing…
#27 – can’t go by what’s in fashion – characters always lag behind fashion… Don won’t give up that hat for a while…
October 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Maria, you’ve missed *extensive* Lutheran Catholic discussions here. But Hilton himself is a Lutheran Catholic.
gypsy, somewhere on this site I recreated the org chart. I assumed Adam Rowe was an invisible copy writer (like the near-invisible Dale) who got a promotion in the re-org (Pete said no on in this room got a promotion but Harry, implying that others who were not there also did). Without the re-org, Adam goes back to invisibility.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
I was born in 1963, and Mom went trick or treating with us until about age 12 – and it was a big deal to be able to go on my own, without her or my little sister and brother! So I’m with those who say it was not an anachronism …
October 28th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
“Lutheran catholic?” Being a devout pasta-farian, far be it from me to enter into a denominational discussion, but can you actually BE a “Lutheran Catholic?” How would that even work? Norwegian-Catholic, I understand. Lutheran-Catholic though?
(But honestly, I don’t want to start the 30 Year War again on this issue.)
I think I’ll just stick to Pasta-farianism. It’s much simpler.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
I was Sally’s age (9) in 1972. At that age or maybe a year younger, yes, I did go out alone, or maybe with some friends, or both. But not when I was Bobby’s age (6). Almost everyone had one parent home to hand out candy, but one parent did usually go out with the little ones. (Hardly ever both parents, though.)
I can believe that the whole family went to visit Francine and Carlton, though, because they’re all friends. Still, I’d think Sally would have broken off from them shortly thereafter to join her friends, as she caught up with them in the neighborhood.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
I’m sure Deb meant “Norwegian Catholics and Lutherans.”
October 28th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Sometimes my brain types faster than my eyes proofread.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
I was born in 69 and one of my parents or my aunt was always with us trick or treating. We could roam around unattended all we wanted the rest of the year, but at Halloween there was always a parent which I always found irksome. I went as a gypsy one year with some of my aunt’s old clothes, I think that was my favorite costume.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Oh OK. Sorry to jump on a typo. Should have realized what you meant.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
It always seems bizarre to me that people project their own experience as some kind of proof of universal experience.
In 1963, I was ten years old. I was also a Girl Scout and I went all over the neighborhood without supervision selling cookies. And I went trick or treating without parents — sometimes.
But my favorite trick-or-treating was with my parents. With parents, it became a cosy family outing, loving and joyful. It was not me out alone in the world, it was me surrounded by love.
I grew up in the inner city, on Chicago’s South Side. I broke records selling Girl Scout cookies and I broke records on ringing doorbells for, literally, miles around my home and I was safe the whole time.
But until I was about ten years old (and Sally Draper is nine in 1963 and Bobbie Draper is even younger), I was not allowed to trick or treat without adults accompanying me. It was a happy family outing.
Plus, Betty and Don live in a small town-like suburb. I think in many hamlets all across America, it was considered neighborly for adults to trick or treat with kids with their immediate neighbors.
And in the early eighties, when my now-adult daughter was very young, her father and I went trick or treating with her — and our suburban Omaha neighborhood was extremely safe. We went to have fun.
And just this afternoon, the manager of my apartment building in downtown Berkeley CA agreed to plan that me and some of my neighobrs came up with to encourage kids in our building to trick or treat: we aren’t doing this so kids get candy. We are doing it to have a friendly, neighborhood activity: it is to build community. I am thrilled about this. For the first time in about ten years, I will have kids coming to my door and I hope all of them will be accompanied by their parents so I can have a neighborly interaction with my, um, neighbors. I am going to make something homemade and super yummy and my neighbors will be able to trust me and let their kids eat my treats.
It’s just not accurate to proclaim, Deborah, that parents ‘never’ went trick or treating in nineteen sixty three.
It was a friendly, neighborly thing. In many communities, trick or treating in the sixties and seventies etc. . . all decades in some places — was about neighbors and neighborood and local.
Sally Draper seems a tad too immature to me to be let loose in her neighborhood, unsupervised by an adult, after dark. Maybe next year she’ll be pleading to go out on her own. .
There are endless permutations to human culture. Not everyone behaved the same then and they don’t all behave the same now.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
#63 LLC as a form of business ownership has been around in common law for centuries. In this country, states have moved to codify common law . . .but you could have an LLC before the 1994 that you cite .. I don’t know that law but just because there was a limited liability corporation law passed in NY state in 1994 does not mean there was no such thing as limited liability corporations before that year.
The common law always existed. Partnerships and limited partnerships, created to limit liability were around long before this country was, um, a country.
October 28th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Turns out Halloween candy poisoning is urban legend (with the exception of parents who deliberatly poisoned their kids under the guise of Halloween candy, or a relative’s drugs got mixed in.)
According to Snopes, the sharp stuff stuck in candy and apples were more like stupid pranks gone astray, until 1982 when the Tylenol poisonings seems to have inspired Halloween tamperings, too.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
anachronism: a chronological misplacing of persons, events, objects, or customs in regard to each other
Betty and Don walking up to the front door of Francine’s home, keeping in mind that Francine and Betty are neighbors and friends, as their nine-year-old and six-year-old trick-or-treat is not an anachronism. Just because Deborah’s parents wouldn’t have done that when Deborah was a child does not mean no one did it in 1963.
Taking an infant out, making trick-or-treating a family outing in 1963 or in any year is not an anachronism. . . because people do it. It is not a chronological misplacement.
People in MadMen forums all over the internet keep confusing their own memories and knowledge with universal truth. When it comes to human culture, there are no universal truths.
There are some facts, such as the first year IBM selectric typewriters were actually sold, that are incontrovertible. .. but when it comes to the varieties in human behavior, there are few things that were absolutely true or absolutely false in 1963 . . or in any year, past, present or future. Human behavior has infinite permutations.
October 28th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
In 1984, when my daughter was two years old, her father and I took her out trick or treating on our one block. We did it mostly to be neighborly but also to openly adore our baby, dressed as a clown, in front of other humans which, I believe, is a universal human behavior replicated in all years and eras.
For someone like Betty, who we are told cares very much about appearances, showing that her family is in tact, showing her new baby. . . these things matter to her. I remind folks that Don offered to let Betty stay home with the baby, or he offered to stay with the baby.
I think Betty went out, and took the baby, for lots of reasons, not the least reason being a signal related to the big show down she and Don had the night before. Also, keep in mind, the writers like to build in ambiguity: one of the great aspects of this show is how each detail can be seen ambiguously, with myriad layers of meaning, myriad contexts. Was Betty, by going out with her family, signaling to the neighbors that her family is intact? Some of them must have known Don was gone for a few weeks (when he went to CA). . . mostly I think she was sending signals to Don, that she is sticking with their family .. at least for now, that she will continue her Doll’s House life. . . for the time being.
I loved the intimacy revealed when she shared her food with him. That is a very intimate gesture. How would offer a half eaten hot dog to anyone but a spouse or child?
October 28th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
When Betty and Don appeared on the doorstep directly behind their kids I sorta startled–I would hardly have noticed them if they were dressed casually, Betty had the baby on her shoulder and they were standing on the sidewalk.
Which is why Carlton’s comment was so apt–they did look as if they were in costume and presenting themselves just as their kids were. Carlton’s reaction would have been just as apt if he’d blurted out WTF (speaking of anachronisms).
So maybe that’s one of the points Weiner is making–Betty and Don really have no idea what they’re doing and it is really obvious. They’re trying to be “normal” but present a tableau that is entirely out of place.
I would argue that they would have seemed just as out of place at any time in the history of trick or treating.
October 29th, 2009 at 1:41 am
Not that anyone cares this far down in the thread: I was born in 1955. When we lived in a subdivision of a smallish city and knew everyone’s name for blocks and blocks, dads came with the kids (and stayed on the street). Moms handed out candy.
Then we moved to the Hollywood Hills, in the ’60’s. So, by the time I was ten, I trick or treated by myself all over the neighborhood. (Which had a lot of apartment buildings, so maximum coverage with little effort.) I can’t imagine what my parents were thinking, to let me out alone at night.
And this was AFTER I was molested on my walk home from school one day in that neighborhood. (Nothing life changing or tragic, but nevertheless disturbing.)
But, I was also allowed to wander about by myself on Saturdays into major shopping districts, taking the bus, going to movies, from the age of 10 on. My mother had done that growing up in NYC and couldn’t see the harm.
Now, she would probably be arrested for neglect. A different world.
October 29th, 2009 at 4:53 am
I grew up too far out in the country to go Trick or Treating–except for the one time we visited the trailer park up the lane. So I have few personal memories. It does appear that parents sometimes came along, even “back then.”
And I agree that the last scene was a bit “composed.” Betty, coming along with the baby to make a family portrait. Don, coming home late (because of work, this time) & not having time to get into casual clothes. Possible symbolic meaning for the kids’ costumes–although they were common, easy home made themes. (Red Skelton’s Freddy the Freeloader was a famous TV hobo.) The occasional reminder that the show is art rather than reality does not disturb me. I’m against spousal abuse, but was glad to see the slightly cartoonish clocking of Greg.
One small historical note: The news story that rocked the country & really rang the alarms about Halloween Poison Candy happened in my neck of the woods. A little boy died after eating cyanide-laced Pixie Sticks. As the story unfolded, it appeared his father had given him the candy, after taking out a very big insurance policy. A dreadful story that really had nothing to do with candy from strangers–but it cast a pall over the holiday. Snopes details here (warning–there’s Jack Chick!): http://www.snopes.com/horrors/poison/halloween.asp
October 29th, 2009 at 8:05 am
The FSM would be a cool Halloween costume if it could be done right (al dente?).
October 29th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Unaware of all its dogma, was that sacrilegious or blasphemy in the eyes of the FSM? Do I need to look out for the righteous wrath of noodly appendages?
If so I humbly prostrate and apologize for the apostasy.
Shiraz can work with pasta if the sauce is red.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Too me, the anachronism, if any, would be Carlton’s fishing into a bowl of little candies or what not to give the children. I remember getting only standard size candy bars (1 each), homemade goodies (popcorn balls, yum!), fruit, or pennies. When did the mini candy bars first come out, anyway?
October 29th, 2009 at 11:15 am
#99 — You are correct regarding the common law derivation of statutory limited liability company laws in the United States. References are made to such entities being formed in Germany, France and Latin America before the United States joined in. ( and <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company )
With regard to the New York (1994) provision: Part of its legislative history (i.e., the reasoning and legislative intent behind the new law) states that “…limited liability companies represent a new form of business enterprise…first appearing in Wyoming in 1977….”(NYS Governor’s Program Bill Memorandum #234).
It would be interesting to somehow determine how many L.L.C.’s existed in New York State around 1963.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Not an anachronism at all – Don and Betty are not ‘helicopter parenting’ – they’re just in the process of digesting the biggest ever shock to their shaky marriage – one that they might hope could actually improve things. (Don’s actually in worse trouble than before, isn’t he?).
So would they sit at home and earnestly discuss it while the kids they suspect they neglect wander Ossining at night? Or would they act out? – Don, in his (however temporary) submissive state, allowing the newly empowered Betty, with her three-month old baby btw, to lead him round the neighborhood in a parade of togetherness. Keeping up appearances, literally.
The neighbor’s question to Don is both a weak joke and an ironic comment on how it’s not usual to see parents out in that way. So unusual behaviour, but no anachronism.
October 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Unaware of all its dogma, was that sacrilegious or blasphemy in the eyes of the FSM? Do I need to look out for the righteous wrath of noodly appendages?
you need to celebrate the holiday called “holiday.”
I am lapsed because I did not observe “talk like a pirate day. ” arrrrgh!
it is a positive faith that hopes you are touched by his noodly appendage. that’s a good thing.
October 29th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
esme, you know. . . (this is way off topic)
If I were not an androgenous cyber-identity spontaneously generated by the new Dunder-Mifflin Paper Company website which became self-aware at midnight on 08/09/09 due to power flux anomaly,
I might get down on my virtual knee and ask you to **111001010100 1000101 000100100011110** {code syntax error} reboot required 00101111010FAIL0010
October 29th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
There’s a deep sense of geek regard on this thread.
Can you feel it?
esme and less of me, you may need to find a remote corner of the blogosphere and … you know … replicate for a while. With or without the red sauce.
I shall turn my back. Better still, log the hell out.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Anne B – I know, I know. I’m surfing around, working on it.
I found a Star Trek: The Next Generation RulzForever site just off the SuperHighway at Exit 723.
It has a tawdry little vacancy at The Hologram Inn.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Of course a REAL geek would have made sure that read “The Holodeck Inn.”
Apologies to the fanbase all around.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Back on a Mad Men topic–
Did anyone mention how knock-out cute Sally looks in that photo up above?
And did anyone notice it looks like see put a little beauty mark on her cheek?
And don’t we all remember Don plucked a little grading star from sweet Suzanne cheek a while back.
No doubt who the gypsy represents now, I guess.
October 29th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
log out? vhat es dis ting? (actually, I have been off line… off “playing” online… all day. don’t I get some points for good behavior?)
fwiw, one of the “blessings” of the pastafarians is to say “may you be touched by his noodly appendage.”
maybe you’ve never seen that masterpiece of kitsch by designer Niklas Jansson illustrating just this moment.
I have no idea if less of me is male or female, or rather I didn’t till I just learned that l-o-m is an androgynous cyber identity who works in Scranton.
I’m, unfortunately, not geek enough… Here. Come sit in the kitchen. I have something to tell you. I have never actually celebrated talk like a pirate day. Okay, I said it. Yes of course it’s true I have said a few “arrrrghs” here and there. But… I just loved the Kansas board of education thing. really. that’s all it was.
(clutching my pearls and running to my room)
October 30th, 2009 at 12:28 am
A sophisticated eye for truth in art, mon cheri.
Fret not mon amour, I have tied enough “scurvy dawgs ta th’ yardarm” for the both of us, it is of no concern to me. I will not-so- tenderly school you in the pirately ways of pillagin’.
I now fear the low rentrendezvous will beneath us.
Perhaps a suite at the MicroSoft Astoria instead?
(They make a delicious salad; no walnuts though, the secret is bacon bytes).
Until we type again, Je vis d’amour et d’eau fraîche.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:33 am
you are too funny.
I have to give the round to you. ding. ding. ding. you win. I have no snappy come back and I have to be sans computer for a while.
so I’ll have to leave you with Nina Simone’s Pirate Jenny.
October 30th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Me likes the links, esme, don’t stop.
I’m just trying to match your funny; I’m kinda competitive. ARRRRR-RR-GGH!
Shiver me timbers or some rot.
Jack back into Matrix when you can!
October 30th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I remember an episode of “Bewitched” a show about an advertising man and his family which takes place in the ’60s, anyway on this particular episode, Samantha and Darrin did go trick or treating with Tabatha. I further recall that all the children out that night had adults with them. Me, I’m the same age as baby Gene and I don’t remember going with my folks but I do remember my older sisters had to go with me and my younger sister and brother.
October 30th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
i was 9 in 1965 – some parents came with, some didn’t, sometimes it was one parent while the other stayed home. same as it is now – there isn’t a set standard rule for parents and their kids on trick or treating.
This isn’t anachronism … I think it’s based on the story and the fact that Don and Betty and the family unit are sort of reuniting.
November 5th, 2009 at 11:05 am
My dad took my older siblings trick-or-treating well into jr high, especially since an adult tried to steal their candy from them one year. I think we were allowed to go out by ourselves in high school.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Totally agree. I think my mom accompanied my brothers and I till the eldest was about 9-10, then, we were on our own!
I absolutely HATED my mother the year she had the termerity to go on a date and leave us with a horrid babysitter, Mrs. Mitchell.
To add salt to the wound, Mrs. Mitchell made us come in from trick or treating at 8:30 p.m. Gasp! ;O)
November 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Didn’t Bobby specifically ASK Don to come trick-or-treating with them in the very beginning of the episode? Perhaps the original plan was for Betty to accompany the children and for Don to stay home, but then he changed his mind to make the children happy. Reasonable enough, and I don’t think it would have raised any eyebrows.
Sally and Bobby are only 8 and 6 years old here; I don’t think that an adult accompanying children of that age while they’re out on the streets after dark would have been completely unheard of at any point in time. (Even if there was less of a panic about child abduction, there was still the very real risk of a kid being distracted, not looking before crossing the street, and being hit by a car–even more likely at night when there’s less visibility.) Perhaps most mothers did not accompany their children trick-or-treating in 1963, but some surely did. Most parents of that generation spanked their children, but there were some that did not. There’s no real universal in human behavior.