Comments on: Gypsies, tramps and thieves http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/ Intelligent media, including Mad Men, Downton Abbey, The Walking Dead, Hell on Wheels & more. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:17:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: mary http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37610 mary Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:24:09 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37610 This is a minor thing, and maybe someone else has already noted it elsewhere, but concerning the costumes...I just re-watched the episode. Sally says the costume she wants is at Woolworth's, Don talks about store-bought costumes being crap. When it's time for them to leave, he picks up Sally to give her a hug, and sort of whispers in her ear "and they have a Woolworth's in Philly, too." So it sounds like he was giving in on the store-bought costumes, but they ended up with homemade after all. This is a minor thing, and maybe someone else has already noted it elsewhere, but concerning the costumes…I just re-watched the episode. Sally says the costume she wants is at Woolworth's, Don talks about store-bought costumes being crap. When it's time for them to leave, he picks up Sally to give her a hug, and sort of whispers in her ear "and they have a Woolworth's in Philly, too." So it sounds like he was giving in on the store-bought costumes, but they ended up with homemade after all.

]]> By: kerri http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37609 kerri Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:04:06 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37609 Many women in Don's life are boheiman gypsy types on the edge of society. Anna is a "foutune teller". She offers to give don a reading with her tarot cards. Midge is a beat nick. There was the tryst wuth the rich girl in California. Suzanne is a free spirit. Many women in Don's life are boheiman gypsy types on the edge of society.
Anna is a "foutune teller". She offers to give don a reading with her tarot cards.
Midge is a beat nick.
There was the tryst wuth the rich girl in California.
Suzanne is a free spirit.

]]> By: BornIn50 http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37608 BornIn50 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:55:49 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37608 Also, wouldn't these people have read D.H. Lawrence's, "The Virgin and the Gypsy?" (One of my favorites, and the movie as well -- but that did not come out until 1970). Also, wouldn't these people have read D.H. Lawrence's, "The Virgin and the Gypsy?" (One of my favorites, and the movie as well — but that did not come out until 1970).

]]> By: BornIn50 http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37607 BornIn50 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:01:09 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37607 @55 Ah, yes, and Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands. "... And your match-book songs and your gypsy hymns, Who among them would try to impress you?" @55

Ah, yes, and Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands.

"… And your match-book songs and your gypsy hymns, Who among them would try to impress you?"

]]> By: Brylcreem http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37606 Brylcreem Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:09:10 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37606 <a href="http://www.dreamsleep.net/meaning-of-gypsy-dream.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dreamsleep.net/meaning-of-gypsy-dream....</a> Gypsy Dream Meaning Psychological Meaning: The gypsies are a mysterious people surrounded by legends and occult stories and may therefore represent your shadow- the undiscovered part of yourself. Alternatively, the dream may be suggesting that you look to the future. What will your circumstances be like in years to come if you continue as you are? http://www.dreamsleep.net/meaning-of-gypsy-dream….
Gypsy Dream Meaning
Psychological Meaning: The gypsies are a mysterious people surrounded by legends and occult stories and may therefore represent your shadow- the undiscovered part of yourself. Alternatively, the dream may be suggesting that you look to the future. What will your circumstances be like in years to come if you continue as you are?

]]> By: Brylcreem http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37605 Brylcreem Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:56:01 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37605 I've been rethinking Suzanne in the last couple weeks, trying to see her how Dick Whitman sees her, what she evokes in him. Your clue that Suzanne Farrell was the inspiration for Suzanne and confirmation that Matt has that song in mind encourages me. She first appears in Love Among the Ruins, and while Don reaching down to touch the grass is very much a D. H. Lawrence erotic symbol, I was also struck with Don trying to ground himself, and the reference to the Robert Browning poem is so expressive of the yearning to reach down below the hustle and bustle of the struggle for filthy lucre back to a deeper, lost or forgotten existence. I’ve got a lot from the hobo discussions elsewhere on this site, but I don’t think we’ve gotten anywhere near the gypsy motif yet. I ordered the book “Gypsies and the British Imagination, 1807-1930” by Deborah Epstein Nord from Amazon tonight after reading “Gypsies were both idealized and reviled by Victorian and early-twentieth-century Britons. Associated with primitive desires, lawlessness, cunning, and sexual excess, Gypsies were also objects of antiquarian, literary, and anthropological interest. As Nord demonstrates, British writers and artists drew on Gypsy characters and plots to redefine and reconstruct cultural and racial difference, national and personal identity, and the individual's relationship to social and sexual orthodoxies. Gypsies were long associated with pastoral conventions and, in the nineteenth century, came to stand in for the ancient British past. Using myths of switched babies, Gypsy kidnappings, and the Gypsies' murky origins, authors projected onto Gypsies their own desires to escape convention and their anxieties about the ambiguities of identity.” She develops how the gypsy became for poet Matthew Arnold “a focus for modern nostalgia, a pre-industrial figure untainted by the strange disease of modern life.” I too was born in 50. Songs I’m thinking of listening to while I’m invoking the archtype: Goodbye and Hello by Tim Buckley Spanish Harlem Incident by Bob Dylan I've been rethinking Suzanne in the last couple weeks, trying to see her how Dick Whitman sees her, what she evokes in him. Your clue that Suzanne Farrell was the inspiration for Suzanne and confirmation that Matt has that song in mind encourages me. She first appears in Love Among the Ruins, and while Don reaching down to touch the grass is very much a D. H. Lawrence erotic symbol, I was also struck with Don trying to ground himself, and the reference to the Robert Browning poem is so expressive of the yearning to reach down below the hustle and bustle of the struggle for filthy lucre back to a deeper, lost or forgotten existence. I’ve got a lot from the hobo discussions elsewhere on this site, but I don’t think we’ve gotten anywhere near the gypsy motif yet.
I ordered the book “Gypsies and the British Imagination, 1807-1930” by Deborah Epstein Nord from Amazon tonight after reading “Gypsies were both idealized and reviled by Victorian and early-twentieth-century Britons. Associated with primitive desires, lawlessness, cunning, and sexual excess, Gypsies were also objects of antiquarian, literary, and anthropological interest. As Nord demonstrates, British writers and artists drew on Gypsy characters and plots to redefine and reconstruct cultural and racial difference, national and personal identity, and the individual's relationship to social and sexual orthodoxies. Gypsies were long associated with pastoral conventions and, in the nineteenth century, came to stand in for the ancient British past. Using myths of switched babies, Gypsy kidnappings, and the Gypsies' murky origins, authors projected onto Gypsies their own desires to escape convention and their anxieties about the ambiguities of identity.” She develops how the gypsy became for poet Matthew Arnold “a focus for modern nostalgia, a pre-industrial figure untainted by the strange disease of modern life.”
I too was born in 50.

Songs I’m thinking of listening to while I’m invoking the archtype:
Goodbye and Hello by Tim Buckley
Spanish Harlem Incident by Bob Dylan

]]> By: BornIn50 http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-2/#comment-37604 BornIn50 Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:20:12 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37604 @53 Right. So I guessed at what I'm supposed to get from the character. But sadly, I don't. :( I'd like to correct my typo. Suzanne's married surname was Vaillancourt at the time Cohen wrote the song. @53

Right. So I guessed at what I'm supposed to get from the character. But sadly, I don't. :(

I'd like to correct my typo. Suzanne's married surname was Vaillancourt at the time Cohen wrote the song.

]]> By: Bryllcream http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-1/#comment-37603 Bryllcream Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:07:57 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37603 #49 "The real Suzanne (Suzanne Vaillanourt), who inspired Leonard Cohen’s song, was a ‘gypsy dancer’ in Montreal and the muse for many beat poets in the early-mid 1960s. The real Suzanne Farrell (her stage name) was Balanchine’s muse and began her rise to stardom in 1963, owing to her “magical, mysterious qualities” and “pure emotional honesty on stage. I don’t know if that is significant here or not. " From an AMCTV interview with the actress who plays Suzanne Farrell (Abigail Spencer) states in an AMC interview: "Q: What's the reaction on the street to your character? A: What is so great about the show is so many of my friends are uber-fans. On Sunday night or Monday morning, every person I know will have some opinion about what happened on the show. At first, everyone thought I was going to be the new "Patio" girl. Then they thought, "You're a stalker, you're a bunny boiler." You just accept it because there's nothing you can say. Before shooting Episode 9, Matt told me to listen to a Leonard Cohen song, Suzanne. If you read the lyrics, you'll get it." #49 "The real Suzanne (Suzanne Vaillanourt), who inspired Leonard Cohen’s song, was a ‘gypsy dancer’ in Montreal and the muse for many beat poets in the early-mid 1960s. The real Suzanne Farrell (her stage name) was Balanchine’s muse and began her rise to stardom in 1963, owing to her “magical, mysterious qualities” and “pure emotional honesty on stage. I don’t know if that is significant here or not. "
From an AMCTV interview with the actress who plays Suzanne Farrell (Abigail Spencer) states in an AMC interview:
"Q: What's the reaction on the street to your character?
A: What is so great about the show is so many of my friends are uber-fans. On Sunday night or Monday morning, every person I know will have some opinion about what happened on the show. At first, everyone thought I was going to be the new "Patio" girl. Then they thought, "You're a stalker, you're a bunny boiler." You just accept it because there's nothing you can say. Before shooting Episode 9, Matt told me to listen to a Leonard Cohen song, Suzanne. If you read the lyrics, you'll get it."

]]> By: BornIn50 http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-1/#comment-37602 BornIn50 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:21:57 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37602 The first U.S. Married Women's Property Act was passed by Mississippi in 1839 and New York in 1848 enacted a statute that became a model for many other states. I think it is correct that all states had adopted statutes by 1900. Later in the 19th century, statutes were enacted that gave women individual rights to enter into contracts, own businesses, and receive their own earnings. However, these acts did not by any means give married women an independent economic existence. The states' legal systems differed, the acts differed, and each state court system interpreted the acts and developed its own precedents. The ownership of assets acquired in a marriage also is different from wealth and property owned before marriage or received by inheritance. In the example you know of, the woman probably could have accomplished what she wanted to do by means of a trust. The first U.S. Married Women's Property Act was passed by Mississippi in 1839 and New York in 1848 enacted a statute that became a model for many other states. I think it is correct that all states had adopted statutes by 1900. Later in the 19th century, statutes were enacted that gave women individual rights to enter into contracts, own businesses, and receive their own earnings.

However, these acts did not by any means give married women an independent economic existence. The states' legal systems differed, the acts differed, and each state court system interpreted the acts and developed its own precedents.

The ownership of assets acquired in a marriage also is different from wealth and property owned before marriage or received by inheritance.

In the example you know of, the woman probably could have accomplished what she wanted to do by means of a trust.

]]> By: Roberta Lipp http://www.lippsisters.com/2009/10/28/gypsies-tramps-and-thieves/comment-page-1/#comment-37601 Roberta Lipp Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:15:19 +0000 http://www.lippsisters.com/?p=8497#comment-37601 @48 Chris, great observation, although it's true, we don't know what it means ; ) I just realized one other thing. The kids wanted perfect costumes, but in the final scenes were content with what they had. Kinda like Don and Betty (at least in this moment). @48 Chris, great observation, although it's true, we don't know what it means ; )

I just realized one other thing. The kids wanted perfect costumes, but in the final scenes were content with what they had. Kinda like Don and Betty (at least in this moment).

]]>