Basket of Kisses

832736 Responseshttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lippsisters.com%2F2009%2F10%2F24%2Fstrangers-on-a-train%2FStrangers+on+a+Train2009-10-24+06%3A57%3A24Roberta+Lipphttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lippsisters.com%2F%3Fp%3D8327 to “ Strangers on a Train ”

1. # 1 gypsy howell Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 1:08 am

   They might be fulfilling something for each other at the moment, but it sure doesn't seem like they're really in love. It barely seems like they're in lust. Whatever. Maybe Suzanne just needed someone to drive her brother to Bedford. And Don – well, he needs all kinds of things, most of which he has no idea what they are.

   (I go back to the scene where she says "I want to scream" SRSLY? Could have fooled me.)

   Can't wait to see where this goes on Sunday.

2. # 2 Karenmom Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 5:23 am

   Don works in Manhattan but commutes to the suburbs. It's a pretty good bet that the train he takes everyday will have men who know him riding to work too. I think this is just the tip of the iceburg. Don better get a lock for the rabbit cage.

3. # 3 Phil Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 5:35 am

   Sally's the one who gets hurt the most, no matter how this ends up. The behavior of both of these "adults" is loathsome, in my opinion.

   Now perhaps if Sally developed some telekinetic powers… Oh, sorry, it's still another year until "Bewitched."

4. # 4 rachel Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 7:15 am

   I thought Suzanne was saying, "Nice meeting you" as a way to say, "Nice meeting you Don Draper" b/c for all of their trysts, she has really been with Dick, not Don. I think she sensed that he was indeed, a different person on the train.

   Also, when she said that she didn't care about his marriage or his job, just as long as he was with her; well I think that was also her way of saying that she prefers Dick. Because DON is the man with the wife and the job; when he is away from those, he is morphing back into Dick, the 8 year old boy Suzanne wishes she could have known.

5. # 5 Sarah M Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 8:05 am

   Hmm — I took "Nice meeting you," as feigning that they had just met in case any potential incriminators were on board (their conversation was fairly quiet), but I did wonder how that went along with holding hands.

6. # 6 Suzanne Mills Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 8:18 am

   I thought that Suzanne showing up on the train definitely had an element of stalking to it. Although, I did read somewhere (maybe even on this site) that given the time period (no cell phones, she would never call him at work ) that maybe it was completely reasonable for Suzanne to simply track him down on the train b/c she simply wanted to see him after he didn't call as promised. Not so sure. She could have called him at work. Other mistresses have done it before. She simply "needed" to see him? Creepy. Possessive. Glen Close-like. I also thought as did Karenmom #2, that a commuter train to NYC- he probably takes the same train every day-there must be people that he knows, neighbors from Ossining- on that train too. What a risk!

7. # 7 less of me Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 9:01 am

   The words were meant as deceptively casual small talk but there was nothing deceptive or casual about that smooth full turn as he watches her leave.

   "The slow smouldering fire lasts longest" — Taoist Proverb

   He's really ready to leave Birdie I think. If he can deal with his reflexive loathing of "all things Roger". Of course, Don may stay with Bets just so he doesn't have to see the shadow of Roger in the mirror every AM when Don shaves. ? .

   I don't feel the stalking either. Why would the Creatives turn her into a stereotype from a misogynist B-movie? I don't see the upside from narrative side of it.

8. # 8 less of me Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 9:13 am

   Hee, hee gypsy. Did you see what was playing on AMC last night?
   Maybe we can recast Suzanne with Sigourney Weaver.

   " In space no one can you scream"

   Could it be Suzanne was just being supportive and nice to the Draper.
   He's an ad man, wonder if he bought it?

9. # 9 less of me Says:
   October 24th, 2009 at 9:15 am

   DOH!!! I botched the joke!

   "In space no one can HEAR you scream."

   I shall fire teh copy editor.

10. # 10 Suzanne Mills Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    Even though she appears as a stalker, the MM writers love doing what is not expected- so she will probably not end up being a stalker/pscho even though she gives off that vibe (at least to me).

11. # 11 Aran Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 10:25 am

    Don's hotter role playing with Bert, than he is with "Blah Blah".

12. # 12 Roberta Lipp Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 10:32 am

    Aran yes. It was also for fun, not out of necessity. God I wonder where this is all going.

    Alien is starting on AMC right this second.

13. # 13 less of me Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 11:07 am

    A'79 Sigourney would rev things up with the Hammer, no?
    And Ripley would kick Don to the the curb, fer sure.

14. # 14 hullaballoo Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Yes, Ripley and Draper. I'd buy that for $1…or even Katherine Parker, LOL. That would serve him right.

15. # 15 RetroGirl Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 12:43 pm

    Of course role playing was hotter in Rome. Betty looked smoking hot; va-va-voom is an understatement. The hair, the dress, the necklace, the earrings, the make-up, and Don wasn't wearing a typical office suit, he was wearing something a little different. You could see why they fell in love in the first place, and what their early courtship may have been like.

16. # 16 Meowser Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    She may be in love with "Dick," but "Don" has children that are real. The very first time we heard Suzanne speak, she was voicing concern for Sally. I have to wonder if she thinks she'd be a better mother to Sally than Betty is.

    The thing is, under different circumstances — if Don were already separated and intending to divorce when he took up with Suzanne — that might actually be true. It's obvious that Suzanne has a longer fuse when dealing with kids than Betty does, by a lot, and Sally loved her as a teacher. But I can't see any way Sally wouldn't hate her forever for splitting up her parents. (Yeah, I know Suzanne is a symptom, not the disease, but a 9-year-old probably doesn't see it that way.)

    Unless, of course, Sally finds out about "the box" before she finds out about Suzanne. Then her wrath might be focused on Don, instead of Suzanne.

17. # 17 Meowser Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    (And no, I don't see them going to "bunny boiling" with Suzanne either. It's such a cliche by now, viewers would sprain their eyes rolling them.)

18. # 18 Sarah M Says:
    October 24th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    Silly but I had to note — Sting's stalker-anthem "Every Breath You Take" works EERILY well for Suzanne's song to Don, period incongruities aside.

19. # 19 Cherielabombe Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 6:21 am

    #2 Don works in Manhattan but commutes to the suburbs. It’s a pretty good bet that the train he takes everyday will have men who know him riding to work too.

    Very true… but NOBODY made Don hold her hand on that train! And then turn around to give her that big long look. I really think Don is losing (or has lost) control.

20. # 20 Laura Lynn Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 7:00 am

    @ #4 rachel – She doesn't know that Don is Dick, but I think she senses it. I have this thought that when he comes clean with her it's going to be something like "My name is Dick Whitman and I'm in love with you."

    @ #19 Cherielabombe – agreed. It's moments like those that make me think that what I stated above may be forthcoming – in the not too distant future.

    Bye, bye Birdie, indeed.

21. # 21 Karenmom Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 7:07 am

    Most posters on the AMC site agree with Meowser and think the writers won't go to Fatal Attraction. But I think they'll go there real fast. This stalker, over the top craziness happens every day, a thousand times a day. Don couldn't have made a worse choice. She's met his wife, taught his child, and lives in the same town. For cryin' out loud, he's got to be getting off on the high probability he's going to get caught. She called his house,(you know it was her) stalked him to his train, and is in LOVE with him. Things will only get worse for Don. Who thinks she's pregnant?

22. # 22 less of me Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 8:23 am

    Cherielabombe – I obviously agree with your general impressions of Suzanne, (I just read your comment in the "choose the wine" thread). And I think she could be a big part of Season 4.

    Just to expand on your "Don is losing (or has lost) control."
    Back when Suzanne first walks him through the most common, probable storyline to their tryst, Don says he doesn't care about the outcome. I originally didn't entirely believe him. I felt he was partially just trying to seal the deal. But like you've pointed out with the hand holding and the look, just about all his actions since then really show he was serious. He has given up on the idea of being in, at least complete, control.

    He realizes that the chasm between him and Betty is just too wide. And a full confession won't bridge the gap. He's also starting to see again and more completely that the role(s?) he plays – Don Draper as suburban husband and cynical ad exec, will never be anywhere nearly as fulfilling as he once believed those roles could be. Or that he was led to believe.

    My ever-evolving pet theory now is that he truly and deeply blames Roger for — (sorry to Peggy for the theft.) — "infecting him with his anxiety" and his cynicism. We now know Roger was the father that begat today's Don Draper. Took him out of the furrier and set the example of how to play in the Big League; really mentored Dick Whitman into that role. And Don resents Roger for being that father.

    Roger tells Don he's in over his head. Well, you're only in over your head if you're holding your breath sitting on the bottom.
    I think Don is good swimmer and likes who he's now swimming with.

    But I think we should defer all serious questions re: Suzanne to the REAL Suzanne- Laura Lynn! She shouldn’t be ignored here (hee,hee -laughing at the stereotype again, can't help myself). She HAS to have been in the writer’s room with her biography. I'm pretty sure she has a copyright suit against this show if she wants.

    LL—ever have coffee with MW?

23. # 23 Aran Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 9:13 am

    If Miss Blahblah is to be a part of season 4, let's hope she has about as much screen time as Jane.

    There's nothing interesting or unusual about her, and we've told this story with Don 3 previous times. We're back to Midge, with Rachel affection and the danger of Bobbie.

    While, I'm willing to wait for final judgement until the end of the season, I can't help but feel we've stagnated all year – and sacrificed great storylines with the PPL buyout, Peggy, Joan, Roger, Sal, Pete, etc… and for what? A year of the end of the Draper marriage? The Draper marriage ended last year. What was the point of having Don return from CA? Why did another unwanted and soon to be ignored child have to be scripted in? It's been a lot of treading of water in the Draper's marital misery, with neither character having any intention of doing anything but going through the motions. Meanwhile, the characters back in Manhattan are MIA.

    I would have so much rather the marriage ended last year and Ossining could have focused on Betty moving forward, Don without family in a new situation at work, and other characters.

24. # 24 less of me Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    #23 Aran, I think your second paragraph gets at the entire point of it. I think the whole plotting of the show is designed to demonstrate that the history of our culture and society moves very slowly and our personal individual prejudices and attitudes and expectations change even more slowly.

    I agree they have told pretty much the same story re Don's affairs but I think he has incrementally changed and learned from each relationship. Unfortunately, he's learned he can't reconcile with Betty. He felt obligated to try, that's why he came back from CA. But this season has painstakingly (I sense you are pained, no?) detailed that neither he or Betty have the tools to make this work.

    I think I understand (but don't share) the dissatisfaction and boredom(?) with Ossining; it is their prison. It's not as compelling as Oz for sure. But if the writers focused more on the other characters I'm pretty certain they would eventually strip all the veneer off of them also and things would be mundane there too.

    Going a Bridge Too Far perhaps (as I am want to do; it's my Achilles' heel) I'm reminded of the opinion of a friend I watched the Sopranos with. One day in season four I think, he told me he wanted more blood, less Melfi; more action, less wallowing in Tony's dissatisfaction and angst. And I realized we were watching the same show from completely different perspectives. He thought he was watching a dull version of Goodfellows and I thought I was watching a cool video/novel of the Camus of North Joisey. Our expectations were different and his were clearly not being met. Not being flippant but C'est la vie.

    Aran, you might get a chuckle out of this. After the last episode, I read this comment in some other blog somewhere, "Watching this show has been like watching blue paint dry."

25. # 25 Gingere Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    #24 Less of Me – Unfortunately, he’s learned he can’t reconcile with Betty. He felt obligated to try, that’s why he came back from CA.

    IMO Don could not really reconcile t with Betty because when he came back he still was not honest with her. He didn't let her know about Dick. She sensed something was not right. So they just reverted back to role playing and she wants more. Now she knows about Dick. It will be interesting to see how she handles it.

    Don/Dick is still deceiving and lying with the teacher. Suzanne may not be the "baby boiler" but nothing good can come out of this. The foundation is based on lies and deceit. They don't go anywhere – surly Suzanne is going to want more.

    Also, I am curious what others think. Why is Don so angry with Roger? Why does he care if Roger marries a younger women? Sure she was his secretary but he never acted like he liked her. Does Roger know that Don is Dick – do you think Bert ever told him?

26. # 26 gypsy howell Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    If Don and Suzanne are actually in love, I wish I could feel a little more heat off the screen. That's what bothers me. Did Suzanne insist that Don meet her brother because she loves him and wants the two people she loves most to meet each other, or was she just maneuvering to draw Don further into her life.

    I just can't figure it out.

    The "Nice to meet you" was clearly (to me) a cover for why they were conversing on the train. It's very possible that no one would have seen their handholding, hidden under their newspapers. The long last look? I dunno – Lust? Love? Something else?

    I hope this relationship gets clarified soon, one way or the other. Every time I think about it, I change my mind about what's going on.

    Really really looking forward to tonight!

27. # 27 gypsy howell Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:13 am

    Gingere, Don is pissed at Roger for a few reasons that I can think of:

    Roger told Mona that Don convinced him he should get a divorce and marry Jane. Remember when Mona confronted Don in the office about it?

    Don also (rightly) blames Roger for the sale of SC to PPL, which he encouraged to finance his increased overhead (ex-wife, new wife, etc etc). Which subsequently lead to PPL/SC forcing his hand to sign the contract, at least indirectly.

    Plus, I think he lost whatever respect he had for Roger when Roger left Mona for a secretary.

    Maybe there's more, but that's what comes to mind for me.

28. # 28 Aran Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:30 am

    less of me, I agree with you that the show does make an attempt to show how little or how much we change given societal events and shifts. But, my objection really, has more to do with the fact that this show has a limited number of seasons to run, and personally, I feel we've wasted a good bit of this season stirring the same plot only to get us where we were exactly a year ago, even if the end result is different this time.

    I'm not so sure Don has actually changed or learned anything from his affairs, despite his California baptism. He certainly hasn't grown emotionally, or learned to care about the emotional fallout to his family. And I disagree that he "felt obligated" to return. He had a free and clear break from his family when he abandoned them without one word for nearly a month. At this point I haven't a clue, WHY he wanted to return to Ossining? Betty certainly wasn't forcing the issue. She didn't even reveal her pregnancy to him until he'd already returned home, so no obligation from that. The fact that he had kids, and as little time as he spends home anyway, doesn't seem to make him feel any obligation. The letter he wrote asking to come home was obviously no more than one of his Don Draper ad pitches. And he's cheating with a stewardess a mere 6 months after his return. Other than going thru the motions, I haven't seen either Don or Betty really attempt to salvage this marriage. And the baby seems such an unnecessary albatross to hang around the neck of these two people.

    Were we to analyze the agonizing end of a marriage, I would have rather it have been Joan's.

    I could have watched a separated/divorced Betty getting involved in civic matters meeting Henry (or whomever), dealing with the Ossining crowd and Don navigating single Dad, and business, his paramours, etc…

29. # 29 gypsy howell Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 11:44 am

    Aran, I'm really hoping that when we get to the end of the season, we aren't just going to feel like we hit the reset button on both the Draper marriage and SC. I'm trusting that we won't. But it's been kind of agonizing in some parts, hasn't it? Let's hope it pays off!

    At least we've got forward momentum with Betty and the desk drawer. That has to go somewhere, doesn't it? You don't suppose Betty could just stick her head back in the sand and go on like nothing happened, do you?

30. # 30 less of me Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    gypsy howell – It's your episode tonight, right?
    I trust these guys to get us somewhere juicy by the season finale.

    I like pondering those questions. Betty's been sort of forced to be patient, fighting her natural (?) impulse to let him have it.

    I'm kind of leaning toward her interpreting this as a license to try out some type of affair, (maybe not with Henry though?). She may want to try to create her own secret of some sort, level the playing field. Howver I don't know what else it could be. But she will figure out, if she already hasn't, that this is her ticket to some other very different existence.

    Next episode is "The Grown-Ups"?
    I personally would only use that term sarcastically. Hard to believe, I know.
    Sadly I interpret that to mean the young Drapers get to witness Mom and Dad fight each other's "inner child". Will be interesting, won't be pretty.

31. # 31 Gingere Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Oh my, my feelings about this are so back and forth as well. I think the process we are going through with this marriage is in a way genius writing. We all are experiencing what this is like for the characters. They are standing on shifting sand the waters are rising and we are feeling it.

    I guess we are like Mad Men, we would rather hang out at the office with all the fast moving antics rather than deal with routine matters at home raising the kids.

    A team of therapist working 24/7 could not figure out Don Draper/Dick Whitman and Betty Draper. That's why we're hooked in. We can't figure them out – it's like having one root canal treatment after the other.

32. # 32 gypsy howell Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    lessofme- HA! Yes, in my dreams, it's "Gypsy and the Hobo."

33. # 33 Karenmom Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 5:35 pm

    Roger hit on Betty after he had dinner at the Draper house. Don knows it and chose to let it go because it would be detrimental to his career to beat the shit out of him. But he hasn't and won't forget it.

34. # 34 less of me Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

    Gingere- I’m taking your advice, my MM viewing menu tonight is pasta primavera and a needle of xylocaine.

    Speaking of the desk drawer, wasn’t it ironic that always careful Don left the key in his bathrobe because he was distracted by the cry of baby Gene?

    It’s debatable whether he just rushed upstairs because he didn’t want Betty to suspect he was sneaking around in the wee hours or maybe because he felt guilty and wanted her to sleep, but maybe it’s not so debatable that Grampa Gene working thru his little namesake gets the last laugh on “that joker”. Ha,Ha!

    Always nice spending a Sunday afternoon in here, had a great time chatting. I have laundry to do before The Gypsy and the Hobo. It’s all mine; I expect no major surprises.

35. # 35 Karenmom Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

    SHE HIT HIM WITH A FREAKIN' VASE! WOAH!

36. # 36 Aran Says:
    October 25th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    Thank you all. It’s been fun discussing our various perceptions of the Color Mad Men. It will be all that much more fun to see our perspectives based on the end of the season!