Open Thread: Souvenir
Tonight’s episode is hard to spell.
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Basket of Kisses: The unofficial blog of AMC's Mad Men. Where all the cool kids meet & greet to talk about Don Draper, Janie Bryant, Christina Hendricks, Jon Hamm, Matthew Weiner, & subtexty things.
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October 4th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
FIRST! (I am such a child.)
October 4th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
From the capsule synopsis:
Don goes on an important business trip concerning the Sterling Cooper advertisement agency and decides to allow Betty to travel along with him; Pete lends a helping hand to one of his neighbors in his apartment building.
October 4th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
LOL, oh Karl. Resorting to comment tag?
October 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
It will be interesting to see what the make-up of Pete's building is like. I'm also very curious about the accuracy of a comment made by Pete during the teaser scene on AMCTV.com, but I'll wait until it airs to post my question on it. I certainly wouldn't want to get in trouble with the lovely and talented Lipp Sisters for spoilers.
October 4th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
Betty on a business trip? I'm sure Don will be just thrilled about that.
October 4th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Here's a (imho) non-spoilery tweet from Sepinwall on tonight's episode.
October 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Also, the sneak peek gives us "a thing like that."
(BTW, the Lipps have the top Google result for the phrase.)
October 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Woohoo ~ cool drink in hand.
Bring on some MadMen!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Joan! Yes!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Between Falling Man, Sterling and Guy, Sterling-Cooper must have some serious Worker's Comp. problems.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
oh, good, Joan's in the preview
October 4th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
I wonder if Sally is going to display more gender-confusion (for the time period) behaviour this episode… there's /something/ there, I know it.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
A thing like that!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Saltaire is on Fire Island
October 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
a thing like that!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I too hate New York in August.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
"Melting wax museum" – hah!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Whenn did people start getting air conditioning? In Atlanta, we got it around the mid=60s
October 4th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Tilda Swinton's dress on the loveseat.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Catching lightning bugs. I used to do that when I was a kid. Correct terminology for the northeast US, too. Other places called them fireflies, but we called them lightning bugs.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Oh god Mad Men in Italy yes please.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Davey & Goliath!!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
I used to watch that show!!!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Lightening bugs are brightest in the eastern US in June.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
blame it on the kids — Pete'll be a fine dad!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Daaveey! Awesome. That dog could lay a serious guilt trip.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
heeeee, .."and people say New York's not friendly"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Hee! I love how Peter's all ready to blame the kids.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Why the hell is Campbell in such a good mood lately?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Jen …lol
October 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
I missed the first two minutes – is Trudy away?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
did betty have her own right boob wine stain?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Hey, is that the dress from The Inheritance that we all loved?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Niedermeyer!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
whoa, what is Betty going to owe him?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Bonwit's. My mother's first fur coat came from there. A black mink jacket, all female skins perfectly matched.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Is is Niedermeyer??
October 4th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
What's that kind of cutting called? Jumping in time without a fade at all, just a costume change. I thought that was called "jump cut" but that's staying in the same time continuity and changing position/location.
Melville, you're the one who would know!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
well well well…
October 4th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Love Francine's bitchin' ride~
October 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Francine totally gave Betty a look.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
After all that Don's done, I'm kind of rooting for Betty having an affair with this suave guy.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Mark Metcalf played Doug Niedermeyer in Animal House, and Mr. Mayor in this episode
October 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
smooth operator!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
These 1960's men with their smooth raps!!!!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
If Don finds out, I hope he complains "He's so old!"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Betty's got another secret.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
oh no she di'nt ! yowsa.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Andrea,
We don't know whether Trudy's away, but the "Previously on Mad Men" used the clip about Trudy going to be at ther folks' place during the missile crisis.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Betty has regained her figure in 2 months!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
"Oh, no! This isn't like when I cheated with the jockey at all!"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Betty's joining the Big League now.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
"Betty has regained her figure in 2 months!"
It's the melba toast and cigarettes.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Henry Francis is creeping me out. First he hits on a pregnant lady — even Don hasn't tried that (so far as we know).
October 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Joy,
Betty didn't cheat with Arthur Case; she cheated with Capt. Awesome in the bar.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Whitney: Melba toast and cigarettes.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Allison Brie was listed in the opening credits, so we will be seeing Trudy tonight
October 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
I thought based on Pete's wealth, he would have spent August outside of the city, in the Hamptons, Fire Island, Fisher's Island, the Cape, or some other summer getaway. I know Gristides. I just shopped there yesterday. Betty kissing in the parking was so stupid. Anyone could have seen her. I know she wasn't thinking, but still.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Love that Betty allowed that guy to kiss and acknowledge their attraction twoards each other. Francine, realized what was up and she gave her the go-ahead.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Who is Captain Awesome?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Betty's happy dance – now there's a first…..
October 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
@ Deb #38
You're right on your definition of jump cutting. That wasn't it. But I don't know the term for what they did with Pete in fornt of the T.V.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Betty is so happy she "won."
October 4th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
ha!
that look from betty when Don hugged her. she's already sleeping with the guy in her mind.
interesting, too, that men both Don and Betty met at Roger's party are changing their lives. powerful people.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Jules,
Capt. Awesome is a character on Chuck, played by the guy Betty did in the back of the bar.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
JS: snap!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
"The Republic of Dresses!"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
hermes counter sighting! OW
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
**GASP**
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Joan.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Joan! <3
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
I don't think Henry Francis is all that old — late 40s maybe. He just has a craggier look.
Somehow Betty shuffling her paperwork seems a bit contrived.
Ol' Pete looks better than I would've expected sans shirt.
OMG Joan working at Bonwit Teller!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Whaaaaaat???
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
surprise!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Busted!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Awkward.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Oh. My. God. My jaw literally just dropped.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Joan sighting!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Joan is the President of the Republic of Dresses
October 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
And the Empress of the Republic is Joan! And her hair is different — shorter? simpler?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Joan in Bonwits! Violets for all! And she's in purple.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Dr Rapist a psychiatrist? Dang.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Oh, Greg, psychiatrist, heal thyself
October 4th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Pete doesn't know Joan at all. She's a always discreet, but he'll be the one to blab about her working at a department store.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I would thank anyone who could talk about what the line about the rubber/diesel smelll means. Was there a smell in Rome then? Is it symbolic?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
So Betty did leave the newborn! A transatlantic flight must have been a huge deal in 1963…
October 4th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
January Jones, in nightgown, speaking Italian. It's like Matthew Weiner reads my dreams.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
what did betty just say in italian before the commercial break?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
where's the Hilton in Rome?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Oh Joan, I share your pain… I've been in those Ferragamos more than once. Pete will definitely blow this one for her, I fear.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Man, Baby Eugene is the Rodney Dangerfield of the Draper family. He's going to have to come up with something dramatic to get some airtime.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Betty is fierce. Love her. She is ready to roar!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
In Jerusalem, it is said that the best view of the city is from the roof of the Jerusalem Hilton, it being the only view of the city which does not feature the Jerusalem Hilton
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I don't know. My grandpa went to Europe for business often in the 50s & 60s.
Joan looks stunning. That more casual hair-do is very flattering. I feel so sorry for her; she knows that Pete won't keep his mouth shut. The au pair scenario was pretty contrived though; why couldn't he have been in Bonwit's buying a birthday gift for Trudy or something?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
There's something about Pete in this episode that makes him seem younger. He looked younger in the dress department than he did normally, and I can't figure it out why.
@ 85 Dimples-I completly agree about Pete blabbing to the office.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
OMG Bad Hair Day
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Getting back to the top of the show, Pete's reading Ebony magazine. Still trying to research the African-American market.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
That is some hairdo.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
And my jaw just dropped a second time.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
europeans used diesel fuel for their cars a lot more than American ones.
oh, and just to say… Oh Betty, you are in your element.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Woah, Nellie.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Very Breakfast at Tiffany's hair
October 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
What a hair-do!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
whoa. Betty. Pretty avante garde for a suburban New York mother of 3!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
I am totally feeling the Fellini here – and Betty's eye makeup is fantastic.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
This scene is total take-off on "When A Man Loves a Woman".
October 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I had a friend in college that used to play the same game with his girlfriend.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
I think they're doing Fellini now, specifically La Dolce Vita.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
What brings you to Rome?
Now Connie's really gotta wonder why Don doesn't keep Betty's photo on his desk!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Joan & Pete have casual hair, Betty bets the more complex 'do. I guess this eppy is about the characters out of their element, or maybe more into their element.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
They are so damn attractive, that it's hard to look at them sometimes.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
So, Don is cheating on Betty with Betty. That's a new one.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Jules, they say the same about the Havana Hilton, and I have been to its roof.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
you can leave your cuff-links on~
October 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Damn, Sally.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
raise your hand if you would sell your soul to be January Jones in that scene.
from the look to the figure to being undressed by you-know-who. 
October 4th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
"It never happened."
October 4th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Pete can head of to German Broadway (East 86th) for some appropriate libations
October 4th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
my hand is raised
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Oh Pete, you creepy SOB.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Pete getting drunk and knocking on apartment doors is almost always trouble.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
OMG
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
are there 2 rapists on MM?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Ew, yuck, I wish watching this scene "never happened".
October 4th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Will Pete leave his cufflinks on?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Sleaseball Pete reappears. Peggy REALLY dodged that bullet.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Pete, you weasel.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Props to the art department for the lit view of Rome, complete with siren sound effect.
I think the Rome Hilton is somewhere near the Via Veneto but I won't swear to it.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Pete, Petey, Pete….you and Peggy and your poor choices — why can't they choose each other if they're going for a bad end?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Just when I was getting to think there may be something good about Pete Campbell…
October 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Good old Pete. Just when I'm thinking he might be capable of doing something simply to be a nice guy, he restores my faith.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Betty driving the Lincoln…the Kennedy Lincoln!
The Kennedys also went to Europe
The Hilton in Rome opened to rave reviews in 1963.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
When I head the sirens, my first thought was that it was another hotel fire, and was wondering what Salvatore was doing
October 4th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Betty looks stunning, drop-dead gorgeous, and like a blonde Audry Hepburn. Betty and Don seem to enjoy flirting with each other. Betty must have loved the attention. When Pete gets drunk, and bad things happen.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Raising hand too. My goodness, January is stunning and that was so hot!!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Pete can't do anything out of kindness. He didn't have to pay for a new dress, but the poor au pair is going to have to pay now…
October 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
@ #126 I'd sell my soul twice to be Jon Hamm in that scene.
Then again, I'd sell my soul to be Jon Hamm in most every episode of MM.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Oddly enough, I would have preferred to be Jon Hamm in that scene. Or most anytime, really.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I love how people used to dress up to fly. And that whole scene with Don and Betty on the street corner was amazing…love.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Actually, I'm fairly sure that Pete's quite capable of making himself [i]believe[/i] that screwing the au pair girl was the furthest thing from his mind… and I'm just as certain it was the first thing he thought of, long before he got plastered.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
via Alberto Cadiolo, 101 is what google says. on a hill, a little outside of the center (toward Vatican?)
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
I loved the scene with Sally in the bath. She's a bit precious. Don better watch out and get ready to protect his little salamander.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Lot's of stolen kisses in this episode – one of the souvenirs?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Pete! What happened to all that rapport between him and Trudy?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Connie has a man-crush on Don
October 4th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
@ Steve # 142
The Kennedys also went to Europe
And it was Jackie that made the bigger impression. JFK made a speech there where he introduced himself to the crowd as "the man who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Europe."
October 4th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Don is on the other side of the bed. Because it's Europe?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Wow…that WAS a quick trip.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Oh man, it just dawned on me. I sure hope this episode title doesn't mean Betty is pregnant again.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Hairstyling was a real art form in Italy in the 50s and 60s. It was totally acceptable for men to be hairstylists. I wish Betty hadn't lost her coiff.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
JFK said: "I am the man who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Paris"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Raising the kids is womens work…Don goes to check the mail
October 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
If I ever acted like this with my husband he would be like, "did you cheat on me with the governor's aide or something?"
LOL.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Oh, there's the baby!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
What the fuck is an au pair?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Another sleazeball.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Pete can't even cheat well.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
so the neighbor's concern is not for the au pair but for his wife who can't keep good help!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Finally a woman fights back. Go Gertrude! I wish Pete got more of a punishment than a 'Stay out of the building *wink*' though.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Pan Am 707
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
That nanny business was as icky as it gets, from all angles.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Au_pair
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Rocket Man
A nanny.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
@ #165, Rocket Man:
"An au pair (plural: au pairs) is a foreign-national domestic assistant working for, and living as part of, a host family. Typically, au pairs take on a share of the family's responsibility for child care as well as some housework, and receive a small monetary allowance for personal use.
The title comes from the French term au pair, meaning "on a par" or "equal to", indicating that the relationship is intended to be one of equals: the au pair is intended to become a member of the family, albeit a temporary one, rather than a domestic servant. In the best circumstances, both parties benefit from learning about the other's culture and will remain on good terms long after the au pair has left the family."
Wikipedia is a friend to us all.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Betty in Pucci print?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Rocket Man, we don't talk that way here. Google it.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
did Betty's get that colorful long dress in Rome?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Is that Jeff from "China Beach"?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Rocket Man: like a nanny, usually foreign I think
October 4th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
love watching Pete squirm
October 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Stolen kisses — good catch!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
It just occurred to me: Pete Campbell is Don Draper's incompetent twin.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Why would anyone have a nanny? Isn't that just for rich people?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Trudy's back!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
Trudy: "you always get that guilty look on your face"
October 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
I think Betty might get pregnant again. I was the result of unprotected "we can't get pregnant again this soon…" sex. The 60's were a very optimistic decade…
October 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Jan I was thinking the same thing.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
@183…they are rich
October 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Entertainment Weekly was behind the scenes of that scene with Pete and Trudy.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
#183: The Campbells' building is full of rich people. Au pairs are cheaper than nannies anyway.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Trudy looks like Liz Taylor.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
in the burbs, you get Carla
October 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Oh wow, it was Jeff (Ned Vaughn), just as cute as ever! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0891224/
I love John Wells' work, Christina guested in quite a few of his shows as well.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
another surprise: Pete feels guilty. Maybe he really loves Trudy after all.
#186 a 4th child might mean moving to a larger house!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Trudy, if you need advice on dealing with a cad for a husband, feel free to call the Secretary of the Tarrytown Junior League !
October 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
@ #189 Spectacular shot, thanks for sharing!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I loved Betty's dress in the scene when she talks to Sally about apologizing. Fashion is changing, and I approve. Pete can't lie very well, which is going to be a bit of a problem. It's good that Pete and Trudy are putting off having children, even if they do decide to adopt. Pete isn't ready to be a father yet.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
# 189 I LOVE THAT SCARF.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
@198,
Thank Ms. Brie for posting it (which I think is adorable).
October 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
and if (when?) she sleeps with Henry Francis they won't know who the father is
October 4th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
@196, Jan:
I've always thought that Pete does love Trudy. It's just that he's a child, that's all. He wants what he wants when he wants it.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Many middle-class people have au pairs. You pay them a minimal stipend and they are guaranteed time off to attend classes, etc. — as someone said, Google it.
If Betty becomes pregnant again, I'm done. That would give Mad Men more pregnancy-driven plot lines than "Gone With the Wind."
Funny Betty of all people lecturing Sally about temper, temper.
"Sally, get down here!" What an ungracious person Betty is, deep down.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
dahlhalla delurks!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
A nanny is a household employee, with a salary, benefits, etc., hired thru an agency. Often 40s and up (at least back then).An au pair is a short term, young woman either right out of high school or college.Cheaper but temporary.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
>implying there's still a middle class
October 4th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
"Go play" after a surprisingly thoughtful mother-daughter chat
October 4th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Betty wins best dialogue, clothes, hair and sex of this episode, hands down!
October 4th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Butterfield Market is still in business at 78th and Lexington
October 4th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Trudy figures out he's a cheat and still gets dressed up to make him a fabulous dinner. Oh, and somehow this is all her fault because she went away???
October 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
#207 Rocket Man
Um, aren't we talking about a fictional universe set almost fifty years ago? What does whether there's a middle class NOW or not have to do with anything?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I wonder exactly how much Trudy knows.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Poor Trudy. It's not because he wants to be with you, he just can't BE by himself.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Middle class? In the 60s in America? People had mothers and babysitters.
October 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Betty is done with that? One stolen kiss was enough?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Lake Geoge didnt do much for Francine's marriage….she thinks it will get better if they go all the way to Madrid?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
when did relatively young men stop wearing hats?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
So I am t understand this episode has no Peggy and no Roger? It is just creepy Pete and the Drapers having a smoking hot Roman Holiday? The only relief is a glimpse of Joan?
Tell me it is better than it sounds!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
charm bracelets were huge in that era
October 4th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
OK, I've had it with Betty.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
A glimpse of Joan is still a great thing!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
This was a bad episode. No action at the S-C offices
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Don is trying and WTF is up w/ Betty???
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Turns out Don isn't the only Draper who dislikes gossip about her private life.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Nobody on this show should go away….all hell breaks loose!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Okay. Betty's attitude just went from 10 to 1 in those last couple of scenes.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Why is she acting that way with Don? Discontent? Jet lag?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
@ 218, Jan…
The hat thing (standard "establishment" dress hats, anyway) among younger men was dying by 1967 and dead by 1970.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
oh that Betty — poor dear should have stayed a model.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
@218 – I hear it all started with JFK not wearing a hat at his inauguration…and went down hill from there.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Well, that sucked.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
Whitney,
True. But seriously, is that all I have to look forward too when I get my iTunes notification tomorrow? Joan working retail?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
I think Betty wanted to be flirted with and fantasize about having sex with that guy. Not have him make a move on her and make her feel obligated due to his help with the campaign.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
The death of the hat industry began at 12noon on January 20, 1961 when JFK went hatless at his innauguration
October 4th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
@218
JFK is often credited/blamed with killing the hat biz. Which is why Pete's comment in S1 about JFK and Elvis not wearing hats is so funny.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
"Cooper's in Montana, Sterling's in Jane, and Draper's on vacation…"
October 4th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Betty wants more, she had a taste of the old life. A McMansion for the Draper's next season? LOL
BTW…good catch with this…
JFK said: “I am the man who accompanied Jacqueline Kennedy to Parisâ€
definite paralells…
October 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
@233: Cheryl, it is mostly Pete, Don, and Betty (I know, sadness for me too), but the scene with Joan is great – even a toss-away scene with Joan shows how powerful she is in any domain.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
MM has been doing the change up in cast and setting since 102, where Pete is missing on his honeymmon. So I always find it amusing when people are dismayed by this.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
it was a great episode
October 4th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
It was interesting to hear Betty lecture Sally on the importance of letting the boys come to you, and how special a first kiss is supposed to be. It's ironic, considering Betty probably has no better sense of how Don Drapper is then the first time she kissed him.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
This has probably been covered long, long before I began commenting, so I beg people's pardons in advance… but…
Am I the only person who loathes those "Mad-Men-style" advertising trivia bumpers that are yet another excuse to cram in an extra ad?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
January Jones, in nightgown, speaking Italian. It’s like Matthew Weiner reads my dreams.
Comment of the week.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
I wanted a longer scene w/Don, Betty and Connie.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
A Hathaway – another reference to Olgivy
October 4th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Pete's not going to get her in trouble. We the last booty call he did!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
To give Pete some credit, he at least admitted he cheated immediately. That's more than Don ever did.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Scott @243,
I don't think it has been addressed, but the trivia is not an excuse to cram in an extra ad. The trivia is done as an "extra" for advertisers, but the number of ads doesn't change because of them.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Is it me or would the extremely chic Trudy be unlikely to wear capris and a loose blouse (let alone the head scarf) into Manhattan, even at the tail end of a hot summer vacation? I'd see her more in a cool shift and updo.
What on earth with Betty at the end? There is no pleasing that woman. No amount of adulation — from Henry, the swains at the cafe, Don, Connie's extravagant compliments — nothing satiates her need for attention.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I was just looking at the photos on AMCTV.com. The expression on Don's face when he is looking at Betty in the cafe was if he was seeing her for the first time. He is trying to figure her out. It's almost as if he's saying, who is this woman.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
#247: I thought the same thing! What a choice of words.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
@243 – Since the show is set in advertising, I like learning something in my ads…prefer to some we have to watch actually.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
This was far from Weiner's best effort. First we had a slow start to the season and then, after two rock'em, sock'em episodes we had this. I feel like it was a wasted hour. I hope this series has not jumped the shark.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I really might mutiny if Joan doesn't come back into the story more!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
@ 249, Karl,
Oh, well… I suppose that's fair enough, from the advertiser's side. But speaking strictly as a viewer, it's you-say-tomato, I-say-tomahto: it's still an extra product plug for me to endure. I'm not drastically outraged, I know it's a necessary evil: simply a mild annoyance to me personally.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Although this episode didn't jump out immediately as a great one like the previous two did, I think that, over time, once season 3 is over and people are rewatching it on DVD, it will emerge as just that.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
The exquisite tension of longing.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
I must watch television very differently than a lot of people. I never approach an episode of a series expecting this or that particular thing to happen, and being disappointed when it doesn't: I'm perfectly happy to go where the storytellers are taking me every week (assuming, a priori, that they're storytellers I'm already well inclined to trust).
October 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
A Roman Holiday as it were…
October 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
BTW, think Henry had the objection to the reservoir dropped because he didn't get any from Betty?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I felt as though Don were really trying in this episode, more than perhaps any other. And where did that get him?
Still unclear on the Sally/temper significance.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
@259 Scott — well said.
I don't expect every episode to cut off my foot.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
It was a very Betty-centric episode, all about her state of mind.
I missed the Sterling Cooper scenes.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
@ 263, Sally:
Even BETTER said!
October 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
264 Melville, re: Betty-centric
yeah, I'm long ~ ready for them to sideline Betty for from solid SC office development.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Judging by the episode 9 preview, people shouldn't worry that the show is moving away from the Sterling-Cooper drama.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
In "My Old Kentucky Home," didn't Joan say something about her "friend at Bonwit's?" Or did she mention another store?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
@250 Millicent: I don't think that Betty is insatiable for attention; perhaps the bubble burst too soon after returning home. She is needed immediately, on walking through the door to arbitrate or discipline Sally. Don reverts to kissing her on the forehead or side of face after their hot night in Rome. Then the gift of the Coliseum charm may seem declasse after their international jaunt of 'the sophisticates.'
October 4th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
As for Betty's attitude, I think what we're seeing is Betty taking a holiday from the confines of her life. Between Henry and the new baby, things are closing in. So it's no surprise that coming back to find things haven't changed puts her in a mood, esp. with Francine starting to make insinuations about her.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
#242 I thought Betty was thinking about Henry Francis when she was talking to Betty about first kisses, since she looked at the fainting couch before calling for Sally. Betty's just had her First Kiss with Henry.
Also, about the charm Don got for Betty – my grandfather did the same thing for my grandmother and my mom, who is a year younger than Sally. Anytime he would go on a business trip, or for any special occasion, he would buy them charms for their bracelets.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
gahhh. mosaic wall hangings. My mother loved them.
Actually they were pretty cool, but they weighted a ton.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
#250 Millicent, Trudy has probably come straight from her parents' car, so I will give her a pass. But she would not go out on the street like that, even in the heat of summer.
Someone refresh, no pun intended, my memory. Remember the air conditioning salesman who measured Betty's windows? They must not have gone through with an order.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
With regard to Betty, it's more than simply attention: she seemed uncommonly at home in Rome, supremely competent in ways she's not used to experiencing. She speaks flawless Italian, knows how to handle wolves, deals with bellboys and waiters and hotel front desks as if to the manor born, charms the pants off Don's client without turning a hair, and has, for once, the full attention and solicitation of her husband. No wonder Tarrytown seems drab.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
The trip to Rome was a brief romantic interlude in a unsatisfying marriage. It's always more exciting away from home. When Betty gets back, she realizes things are still the same. She wants and gets romance. Don want and gets passion. Question is, where will she/he find it now?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Interesting contrast between the pouffy, pink tulle dress Pete was trying to replace and the chic black number and colorful print dress Betty wore. Outdated vs. trendy?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
re: #18 – After World War II, window units air conditioners appeared, with sales escalating from 74,000 in 1948 to 1,045,000 in 1953.
http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mvigeant/therm_1...
October 4th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
By the end of the series (20 years from now, god willing), Betty is going to end up like Betty FORD. Drunk, oblivious, miserable.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I think that Pete won't "squeal" on Joan's working in a department store. Her comment regarding Trudy not looking as though she's a size 10 ensured that she knows the dress wasn't intended for his wife. Also, how would he explain why he was in the "republic of dresses."
October 4th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@ 259 – I agree with you, Scott. I wasn't dissapointed in this episode at all. It showed an insight to marriage and the relationships between Betty, Don, Pete and Trudy.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
@ 280, Dimples:
I've never been disappointed in this series, not for a moment. It's not my story, it's Matt Weiner's: I'm content to let him tell it his own way.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
loved lil' Ernie's parting shot look to Sally. heehee
October 4th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
#273, she kicked him out of the house before he finished, and then Don was angry with her about it.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Also, what's the deal with dirty clothes this week? Don puts his shirts in the laundry and tell Betty he has the wrong ones to which Betty replies something along the lines of it not being a problem, the Au Pair spills wine, and ruins her employers dress, which Pete exchanges for her, Betty brings in the dry cleaning, and wears a beautiful (can we assume new) dress to dinner with Don and Hilton, (along with some pretty swanky underwear that had my own husband choking on his drink:). I don't have any answers, yet. I just think it's a theme to be considered.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
I will still pay any film fanatic five basketdollars if they can tell me what kind of cut that was. Is it a Fellini thing?
October 4th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Betty does not have a chance to practice her Italian, and didn't know until hours before that she was going to Rome, yet it flowed well upon arrival even when jetlagged. Either she really became fluent, or that was stretching things a tad. Also, could Don have gotten his love of Italian cinema from taking Betty to Italian movies?
That "they said you were ugly" line was straight out of La Dolce Vita.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
@281 Scott
Matt has a lot to say and sometimes I think he's trying to say too much for one series.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
@ 287 adwoman:
And I defend your right to hold that opinion.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
Every time I come home from a vacation I end up in a funk and taking it out on my family. Upon my return everyday life seems so mundane; the same problems that were there when I left haven't gone away. I guess I can see why Betty was so miserable when she got back… especially given the state of her marriage. She is BORED, she feels taken for granted by her husband and kids, the Roman Holiday was nothing more than a brief fantasy/escape from the fact that her marriage is dying on the vine, and now there's this new, shiny prospect blinking in the distance. [spoiler removed]
October 4th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Pete watching "Davey and Goliath" on T.V. makes sense. As I recall the show, the plot was always 'Davey does something wrong, feels guilty about it, apologizes, and learns his lesson. At least until the next episode, where he finds something new to do wrong.' That's Pete, alright.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
@ 296 bob mcmanus- Would Paley would be William Paley of CBS? The same Paley as in the Paley Center for Media (Formerly the Museum of Television of Radio)
October 4th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
@# 270 Karl: Agreed. Betty had a wonderful adventure where she spoke fluent Italian & looked like Gina Lollobrigida: The "it" girl of the Eternal City, literally livin' La Dolce Vita. And then……back to reality: diapers in Ossining, suffocating in the suburbs. From an expansive universe to a tiny box.
Reminds me of Syvia Plath's poem "Lesbos:
"I should sit on a rock off Cornwall and comb my hair.
I should wear tiger pants, I should have an affair.
We should meet in another life, we should meet in air,
Me and you.
Meanwhile there's a stink of fat and baby crap.
I'm doped and thick from my last sleeping pill.
The smog of cooking, the smog of hell"
http://www.sylviaplathforum.com/lesbos.html
October 4th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
My favorite MM phrase was repeated twice in this epi: "this never happened"
Don first said that to Peggy when she was vegging in the hospital.
Tonight, Joan said it to Pete re: the dress & Pete said it to the au pair re: the dress.
I think that's a theme of the entire show: denial
October 4th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
299:Yeah, I don't know enough New York social history circa 1963 to know what social circles would be open to Don & Betty. Probably not the oldest money. Paley came to mind.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
There was a lot of turquoise in this episode. Maybe others as well, but I really noticed it tonight.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
@300 eve, although your comments and Plath poem are sad , they're unfortunately true. Plath was the iconic depressed housewife. I keep wondering when something really tragic is going to happen in this series. It seems the characters are all playing with unhappiness and disillusionment. Is that the message we're supposed to be getting from this period?
October 4th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I mean, isn't it obvious that Betty is being wasted in Tarreytown? Like Peggy, it is partly Don's responsibility to help Betty reach her potential.
Don't still a bit of a bum.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
#286 as someone who has to think in about 5 languages every day, I can attest to the fact that Italian is the easiest to fall back into.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
…as (originally) a native of Dallas, I got a giggle out of Pete's comment that Hilton sending Don to Denver or Dallas was the equivalent of sending him to a backwater.
At the time Dallas was booming – the remnants of that era were everywhere when I first began working downtown in the mid-1980's.
And….ermm…obviously, it was a big enough city to host a Presidential motorcade. cough, cough.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I love the not-so-obvious episodes because there is so much subtlety to find in these kind of episodes. We're expected to be anxious and anticipating the fall-out of the contract signing and the Duck f*cking.
I was very happy for Betty being happy and looking fabulous(Janie Bryant and the hairstylists rocked it this week, as usual). And, I'm not married and I completely understanding that feeling of being let down after a wonderful vacation away from everyday life.
The guys hitting on Betty reminded me of that SNL skit from the 90's(Bellisimo!)
I was so annoyed at Pete, just when I thought he was going to be a good boy. Of course, this is MM, so I knew that wasn't going to last. I still think there's more to his guilt/upset over what he did to Trudy(afterall he'd cheated last season and didn't feel bad at all). I can't really connect the dots, but I'm sure someone else will eventually
And good on whomever said Trudy reminded them of a young Liz Taylor…I knew Alison Brie reminded me of someone from that time period!
October 4th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Did anyone notice the way Pete pronounced au pair, "aww pair?" Does that go along with that upper class elite thing about learning a foreign language but NEVER deviating from an American pronunciation? Excellent observation, Mad Men writers. I'm really impressed!
I think I remember Betty saying she studied anthropology at Bryn Mawr. Something like that. Might she have studied in Italy for a semester? I had the distinct impression that she's seen a lot more of Italy, and perhaps in a deeper way, that any of us realizes.
I thought this episode was one of the best.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
In this epi, I think the writers are really having Betty channel Hitchcock's blonde Ice Queen. Tonight, Betty was very Grace Kelly/Tippy Hedren.
Betty with that hairdo in Roma: Delicioso!!!
Chuckled at the Butterfield Market (78th St & Lexington Ave) mention; they really do their home work.
By golly, loved this epi!
October 4th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
If I am not mistaken, which I genuinely may be, souvenir is the French verb for "to remember". Not that I have any solid ideas on what that means, but it is something to chew on.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I know I'm late to the party but…the hotel would be the Cavalieri Hilton, now known as the Rome Cavalieri. It's on one of the hills overloooking Rome and it is gorgeous (or it was in 1978, I'm guessing more so in '63).
As for Dr. Rapist's new speciality…at that time, the common wisdom (or bias) among doctors was that if you couldn't succeed in medicine (what's the line about no brain in his hands?), you went into psychiatry.
Dr. Rapist is a dud doctor.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I thought Betty said in S1 that she went to Italy after college and did some modeling there.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
@308 Stace "I love the not-so-obvious episodes because there is so much subtlety to find in these kind of episodes. We’re expected to be anxious and anticipating the fall-out of the contract signing and the Duck f*cking."
Yes, the unexpected. Things don't follow in a prescribed manner. That's the beauty of MM.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Trudy and Pete must live in a pretty upscale building considering that they have a "service hall". Pretty classy. Also I liked the reference to the Butterfield Market on Lexington Ave. I use to shop there from time to time when I lived in the neighborhood.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
The Paley is most certainly William Paley of CBS, whose wife Babe was a ruler of chic NY society. She was a Cushing from Boston and is worth a post of her own.
The Drapers could not move in oldest money circles, the League aside, but there are lots of circles for them. Perhaps Mrs Astor would adopt them. She liked handsome men and Don would be right up her alley.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
From Babe Paley's Wikipedia page, a Truman Capote quote: “Babe Paley had only one fault. She was perfect. Otherwise, she was perfect.â€
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Paley
October 4th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Just a question, do you think Betty's hairdo incorporated a false piece as well? Since it seemed pretty big and high for just her own hair. I would guess a French twist with her own hair, and a false piece on top. Anyone have an idea? I loved it, very Audrey Hepburn/early 60s.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
@304 adwoman. Yes, I completely agree with you. Betty is Plath-like: A 7 Sisters alum, feeling stifled by being locked into a domestic role of wife & mother in the burbs. Wait till she reads The Feminine Mystique, which was published in 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Friedan).
And yet, today, while a woman's role is not as stifling, it can be more chaotic than pre-Friedan days. We can get MDs, JDs, MBAs, etc, but, we're still picking up poopy diapers. And, I know some women who have degrees, but they chose to be suburban housewives (the Backlash?). So, maybe we're never happy with wot we got.
Also, re: your sense of impending doom in Westchester, channel Cheever, who was:
"a suburban realist, Ovid in Ossining, the American Chekhov, the American Trollope for an age of angst……..
Mad Men, the hit television series about '60s advertising, casts domestic life in such a Cheever-esque light that it should be paying royalties to the author's estate." http://www.newsweek.com/id/186948
I think the key word is Angst. Most of the characters in MM emit angst.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Upon first viewing, my take on the last scene…
Henry Francis ignites some energy in Betty. She wants love, but not from him. She wants it with Don. Things are certainly on a positive path with Don until she gets back and talks to Francine. Francine takes the air out of her balloon by suggesting that things between she and Don were only good because they were away from their normal life. Betty tells Sally that it's the first kiss that's special and those that follow pale in comparison (not exact words)… Does she really feel that it's all downhill from the first kiss.
It's so sad to me that she let Francine's view cloud hers. Francine and Carleton are NOT she and Don.
I think that sometimes when we've been disappointed repeatedly, we expect disappointment and forget HOW TO BE optimistic. Learned pessimism. I wonder if Don and Betty individually are strong enough to keep reminding themselves to not give up.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
@316 Ed:
Trudy & Pete's bld is 799 Park Avenue @ 74th St.
http://www.cityrealty.com/graphics/photos/p/park7...
October 4th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
@322: Well said, Glad Mad Woman
October 4th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
When Don offered Betty the Colosseum charm, I immediately assumed that he was symbolically promising that they would return to Rome together to see the city "properly".
But apparently he didn't mean that, and Betty didn't take it that way.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Francine's suggestion that they have to do the Reservoir work all over again, and Betty saying "I took my stand," is sort of exactly the same as the vacation. Everything I achieved, everything I was joyful about, is back to square one.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Boohoo! I posted a comment (#318) about jump cuts and film editing and it continues to display the message "Your comment is awaiting moderation", probably because it contained 3 URLs.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Peggy J, I'll go fix.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
So are we calling Pete a creeprapist now too? or does he get a pass?
Trudy is a steal, she needs to boot that boy/man and get herself the genuine article. (hurumph.)
October 4th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
The first time I saw Elizabeth Taylor in "A Place in the Sun" (1951), I thought she must be the most beautiful woman who ever lived. Before that I had only seen her 1960s movies, where she was beautiful, but not YOUNG Elizabeth Taylor beautiful.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Thank you, Deborah. I enjoyed reading about film editing and hope other Basketcases will too. This summer I finally saw "Breathless" on DVD, the 1960 film that made extensive use of jump cuts. Wow!
October 4th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Peggy Joan – my mother always wanted to look like Liz Taylor.
Mom had Irish, clear blue eyes, not violet — but she did have the bone structure….and because it was the custom at the time, Mom had several wigs, in particular a black/brunette bob — very Liz.
*I used to have more fun with Mom's wigs! – guess I'm a bad-little-sally too.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Betty is so smoking hot in this ep! January Jones is always beautiful, but tonight she's so sexy. It's a sexiness that's so bold and confident. I think Don is struck by it too, as he can't take his eyes off her. And I love his line as they enter the hotel room "You're tiny." He obviously knows/feels her sex appeal is larger than life.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Deborah, I think that Betty's statement “I took my stand†was her way of stepping back from the flirtation with Henry Francis. She knew Francine and the others would expect her to call on him again and she is done with that, for now anyway.
When she entered her living room the morning after returning from Rome, she looked at the fainting couch in a way that seemed to mean something — I'm just not sure what, but I'm hoping it was "Send that thing back to the antique store!"
October 4th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
#330 I wondered the same thing, at first. But doesn't Joan protest against Greg almost the ENTIRE time, until she disconnects and stares off while he "finishes."
The au pair lets Pete into her employers home and into her bedroom. As he kisses her, there is nary a whimper. I'm not saying she had it coming or was asking for it and I understand she's a young foreigner and he's a man of status (at least in the au pairs eyes) and all that scenario entails.
I just know that in the Joan/Greg scene…I was shocked: "OMG. He RAPED her."
In the Pete/au pair scene…I was #1) thinking how much Pete outside the apartment door reminded me of him outside Peggy's door in S1, #2) thinking how similar the au pair and Peggy seemed- plain girls, size 10 girls, earnest, hard working girls, and #3) thinking "Oh Pete…such a weasel."
In fact, if the neighbor hadn't called him to the carpet (if you can call it that…what an ass) and that whole scene were omitted would any of us had known Pete raped her? Took advantage yes, but raped?
Please know I'm not defending him. I'm trying, perhaps ineffectively, to express my different reactions to apparently the same abhorrent act.
October 4th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Right after Betty looked at the fainting couch in her living room, she called Sally over to sit with her on the Dunbar sofa and have a mother-daughter talk. What she said to Sally about the importance of first kisses … how they move you from being strangers to knowing each other … how every other kiss with a person is a shadow of that first kiss … that all seemed to relate to her flirtations with Henry and with Roma[ntic] Don.
Perhaps she realized that Henry is just another Don, but not quite as delicious as the man she fell in love with and married. When Don and Betty were flirting in Rome just before Connie arrived for dinner, you could see why they fell for each other.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
I think this was the first Peggy-less episode
@324 I thought Pete and Trudi lived farther uptown. When they were considering buying the apt. I thought Trudi's dad said something about not wanting to get an apartment above 79th Street, and Trudi said that anything below 86th was good.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Okay, I am a huge Pete sympathizer, and I know this will never happen regardless of how much I want it to happen, but I feel like Peggy should just give Pete a big hug. You know the kind that your parents gave you to tell you everything is going to be okay? Yeah, I feel like Pete needs one of those from Peggy (not because she is capable of doing so, or should Mom him, but because it would mean so much to him).
I just like him, even though he's the biggest weasel, says terrible things, and doesn't think some of his actions through. I mean, I guess I hold on to the idea that at his very core, deep, deep down in there, he's a good guy.
Now that I think about it, he could probably do something horrible and I would still find something to like in him.
I made a complete 180 in my opinion of this character by reading this blog and everyone's comments. That's pretty crazy. You guys are extremely powerful. I hope you keep using your powers wisely.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
I continue to be absolutely appalled at the monstrosity that is the fainting couch.
That is all.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Joan, ever the fixer.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Pete, ever the liar
October 4th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Betty still remembers the Italian from her modeling days.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Damn, never would have guessed Betsy was fluent in Italian.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but I thought I saw a strong similarity between the Don and Connie relationship and worker/executive relationship in "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit", the way that Don is starting to be worked around the clock, and the way that Connie is subtly trying to change him into a younger version of himself, so that he can vicariously iron out the flaws in that self.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
#92 — that she’d like a beauty salon appointment.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Deborah, I suspect it is the way the hotel is heated or in this instance, cooled. Probably by a diesel-powered generator that isn’t vented well. The Paris Metro smells the same way.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
bbdo – she was making an appointment at the beauty salon
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
I like these little insights into Betty’s mind…impressed with the Italian.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
A Tony Little “Gazelle” there in the Clorox commercial.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Deb, sounded like a reference to Revelations Hell. Fire & Brimstone and the Sea of Sulfur and all that.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Dr. Greg Harris – He'll take care of your mind or your body, whether you like it or not.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Oops, reading through my previous post now and thinking it through, I'm pretty sure the last part of my post has already been said before. But, I think my point still stands. The Basket and all you Basketcases are insanely good with words.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
I find the stereotyping of Italian males very offensive.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
# 231 – "I hear it all started with JFK not wearing a hat at his inauguration…and went down hill from there."
This photo is of JFK & Eisenhower, leaving for the swearing-in ceremony on January 20, 1961… http://67.19.222.106/history/graphics/jfk1.jpg
Aside from a formal, special occasion like this, Kennedy preferred not to wear a hat.
On the morning of Friday, November 22, 1963, (just hours before his assassination in Dallas), he was presented with a Stetson hat at a breakfast in Fort Worth. He didn't put it on, instead, he invited the assembled group to come to the White House the following Monday, to see him try it on there.
According to the JFK Library…
"Hats: John F. Kennedy famously did not like to wear hats, although the story that his dislike caused the decline of the hat industry in the 1960s is merely legend. When he did have to wear one, his hat size was 7 3/8."
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Ar...
October 4th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
I remind everyone that Betty spent some time in Rome when she was a model. A designer named 'Gianni' designed clothes just for her and she still has some. She showed them to a 'friend' who wanted to borrow an evening dress, the 'friend' with the horse rides that had a fling with the horse-riding guy.
Betty's friend made a suggestion about Betty and Gianni and Betty said their relationship was not like that. I figured Weiner was hinting that it was Gianni Versace.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Cheryl6
Oh boy. Maybe this time Don can choose the name, since he had such a problem with Eugene.
October 4th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
an Au Pair is like a nanny-exchange student
October 4th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Lightning bugs are in June, not August.
I don't think Pete's assignation was the same as Greg's date rape of Joan. The young woman (was it Gudrun? Gertrude? I wasn't sure) seemed reluctant at first, but kissed him back. It seemed to parallel the way Betty reacted to Henry. First being coy, then going along with it, then thinking it was a mistake afterwards. Also, Pete actually felt guilty, or at least he was humiliated at being caught. Do we think he was upset because he thought his neighbor might tell Trudy? I hope he didn't knock her up like he did Peggy. You'd think he'd learn. Oh no, right, this is Mad Men.
I totally get why Betty pitched a tantrum after the vacation. She's bored and frustrated and she gets 2 measly days to have fun, wear pretty clothes, get chatted up, speak Italian, be in a big city, and then it's back to boring old Ossining, petty gossiping neighbors and misbehaving daughters. It's infantile, but understandable.
Lots of people stealing kisses and getting caught in some way.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
@289
Agreed.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
# 290 Melville Says:
Pete watching “Davey and Goliath”…yes.
also Goliath should pop up and have a little guilt-trip talk with Smoochin’-Sally.
ha!
October 4th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
@ #123 and also re: the preview for next week on AMC’s site — the Athens Hilton is hideous as well. must be a theme.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Clarification from our lovely Lipp Sisters-are we allowed to talk about the scene that’s on AMCTV.com, or just the clips they show at the end of the episode? It looks like next week is going to be a lot of office drama, and somehow Sal is involved.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
Thanks for the air conditioning research.
Let’s hope that souvenirs do not include a baby for au pair and for Betty.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
I liked this episode and I like the Betty storylines.
I just don’t think Don is doing well enough by her. Betty could be at home in the milieu of Jackie O or Princess Grace and that is the world she deserves and should have. Ok, maybe not that far, maybe the Paley and Rockefeller set.
Betty hates her home, her town, her friends. Remember Bert saying Don was in the big leagues and had to start working the charity and political circuits? This wasn’t a choice. Henry Francis was there for comparison. Don needs to gain social power to share with his wife. Scary stuff for Dick Whitman, still half in the country.
Don needs to add another zero to his income, move to Manhattan, and let Betty move them into a social set. Or he will lose her.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Is Sally keeping a diary? Wonder what IT says…
October 4th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Trudy has obviously been riding in a convertible
October 5th, 2009 at 12:17 am
#344 it isn't a stereotype. When I was there in h.s., the guys followed us down the street. It's a game, esecially with Americans.If you can speak decent Italian, they think it is even more of a challenge. My Italian friends just give them a frozen look. "Little boys."
October 5th, 2009 at 12:20 am
–I would rather we not discuss the next episode, even though the scenes are there on the AMC site. There are viewers who are rigid about spoilers and won’t watch those scenes.
–Betty spent a long time in Italy after college working as a model.
–Agreed about psychiatry; it’s what doctors do if they can’t work with their hands.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:23 am
@308 Stace- I haven’t thought about that SNL sketch in years. Adam Sandler was so young then. I do think the scene with Betty, the would be suitors, and Don was my favorite of the episode.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:25 am
History of the “jump cut”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_cut
A Glossary of Film Terms (see URL below) says that a jump cut is “two similar shots cut together with a jump in continuity, camera position or time.”
http://homepage.newschool.edu/~schlemoj/film_courses/glossary_of_film_terms/glossary.html
Wikipedia’s film editing page is also interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_editing
October 5th, 2009 at 12:54 am
During the Sally/Betty first kiss talk, Betty says "there'll be a lot of first kisses". Sally responds that it's already done. I was agreeing with Sally; normally "first kiss" refers to the first ever, and she just gave it away to the Hanson kid. But Betty meant that *every* boy she kisses will give her a first kiss, therefore, there'll be a lot of them. Important distinction there, and it seems her first kiss by the Gov's aide was well on Betty's mind. And of course the implication is that it won't be the last kiss.
Wondering just how much Trudy knows about Pete's cheating. I don't think she'd take that knowledge so passively, so I'm assuming she doesn't know.
October 5th, 2009 at 1:58 am
@336 JoanvsJane Says: (re: did Pete commit rape?)
#330 I wondered the same thing, at first. But doesn’t Joan protest against Greg almost the ENTIRE time, until she disconnects and stares off while he “finishes.â€
The au pair lets Pete into her employer's home and into her bedroom. As he kisses her, there is nary a whimper. I’m not saying she had it coming or was asking for it ……….(truncated)……………..I just know that in the Joan/Greg scene…I was shocked: “OMG. He RAPED her.â€
That's the difference.
With Joan – we had a STRONG visual of the act…with Pete – we have implied-emotional-debt kisses, then *boop*…scene change.
What we infer from that is mutable.
From my perspective, why would she be afraid of being fired for staining a dress, but not equally fearful of telling her employer she had sex (forcibly or otherwise) with his neighbor?
The neighbor's reaction is another story — but for present focus — apparently SHE considered it something to cry (several Kleenex boxes) over.
He obviously had guilt. Though damned if I can figure out where it emanates from. It's not the first time he's pulled this number – one-trick-Petey.
Vincent K. does an outstanding job of keeping Pete just on the cusp of redeemability, while being utterly loathsome. kudos to him.
(but in my opinion – emotional-blackmail rape is rape, all the same – not one iota more noble than Dr. Greg)
October 5th, 2009 at 2:15 am
Quite a shift in the Don-Betty dynamic in this episode. Don's using the more familiar back door to enter the house after work these days, he's lying around barefoot (feet again!), he's corrected by Betty for overtipping the bellboy, his souvenir charm is not appreciated. Meanwhile, Betty's smooching Henry, strutting around Rome (and then home) in new Italian fashion, rebuffing the flirty boys in their own language. I think we had a look at the Old Betty and she was pretty damn hot and confident. And since drunken Jane made the comment about how pretty Betty is and how Don must/should just look at her, Don really has started looking at her differently. He is the one pursuing her these days.
October 5th, 2009 at 4:57 am
@348 – have to say, it was true in my experience too. I was obviously with a man and guys would call out across the street, waiters gave me wine, an old tour guide let a female friend and me into a closed museum while he led me by the arm and muttered things to me that I assumed were somewhat lewd because I don't speak Italian – I speak or should say now more accurately read a couple of other languages (tho not beautifully.)
this was not the experience I had in other cities in Europe, even when I lived in one of them for awhile.
P.S. – Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!
October 5th, 2009 at 5:09 am
Betty became Joy in this episode – I think this is the real Betty, and it's a shame for her to go back home to hobnob with Francine.
October 5th, 2009 at 5:56 am
What about the phrase from Mr. Francis that Betty repeated to Don, "When you have no power, you have to delay." Could that resonate beyond the Reservoir issue to Don and Betty's marriage? Is Betty delaying something until she gets more power? Wondering what readers of this forum think.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:11 am
@346 Good guess, but Versace didn't begin designing till the early 70s in Milan.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:14 am
One of many reasons I love Mad Men is the clothing and I thought this episode had the underlying theme of clothing:
*The au pair's dress, the Bonwit store and Joan (yes, bring her back!) in a purple dress
*Don throwing in laundry, Betty picking up dry cleaning, Don "dressed down" at home, no formality
*Peter ripping off his shirt and Trudy wearing a more casual outfit while attempting to seduce him (LOVED the scarf and bangles…symbolic?), then wearing hair down, fitted dress to serve dinner
*Betty – putting on her lipstick, wearing (I'm assuming) more professional female attire to the town hall meeting (again, loved the scarf), wearing a pink suit on the plane. In Italy, her fabulous up-do, black dress and heavy eye make up – fashion forward and completely seductive and the best, in my opinion…the dress she's wearing at the end (I'm thinking it would have been a Pucci she picked up? Don't know.) I absolutely love the dress and how it is a revision of what she normally wears – bright, loose fitting and confident…it contrasts the "same old" outfit that Francine is wearing, capris and top.
I just kept thinking, "You are what you wear," and "Dress for the job you want," and how the clothes dictated how the everyone acts….
Really loved this episode (say that every time though!)
October 5th, 2009 at 6:51 am
My first thought on waking today was, "god, Pete you are a scumbag." I just want to make it clear I wasn't defending him above (#347), just that there's a distinction between Pete & Greg. They're both scum, even if Pete has occasional lapses of conscience.
More ugh: the neighbor's attitude that it's ok to force yourself on au pairs, just not HIS au pair. It's kind of horrible when the whole culture is set up so men can get away with it.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:53 am
I thnk I've figured out what has made this season so underwhelming for me. Actors like Christina Hendricks are being pushed to the background to give Sally more screentime. I really don't care about little girl angst. I enjoyed when Sally would turn up from time to time, but she is getting more to work with then the adults this season. As great an actress Keirnan Shipka is, I'm not watching Mad Men for Sally Draper's coming of age.
October 5th, 2009 at 7:57 am
@ eve # 322
Re: John Cheever
The show gave a subtle but unmistakeable shout-out to Cheever last week. When Don was signing the contract, it showed that the Drapers live at 42 Bullet Park. Bullet Park is the title of one of Cheever's novels.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Melville, this has been their address since season 1, and was definitely on purpose.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:23 am
At Peggy Joan # 318 & 332
Interesting. I guess the jump between the two differently-dressed Petes in the same position might be called a "temporal jump cut" (a term I just made up
), since, unlike the jump cut as first used by Godard, it isn't used as an alienating device, but to get across the idea of Pete's inertia. I can't recall any other films that use it exactly (though I'm sure it isn't new). It reminds me a bit of the famous sequence in Citizen Kane, which shows the disintegration of the Kane marriage through a series of breakfast table scenes, edited together with flash-pans.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:35 am
@ blazingfox #339
I don't know if I can think that Pete is a good guy deep-down, but his last scene this week did make me more sympathetic to him. Though the only way he could phrase it was to make it sound like he was blaming Trudy for leaving him alone, what it really was (and I think both Pete and Trudy understood it as such) was an apology and an admission of his own weakness. That doesn't make Pete husband of the year, but it's more than Don has ever done.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:43 am
@ Deb #360
Oh, I hadn't noticed before.
Is the 42 a salute to A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?
October 5th, 2009 at 8:44 am
#357: This was one episode where the language of clothes spoke loud and clear. To me, the whole episode was about trying on different suits of clothes, like the au pair (servant) trying on the employer's(master's) dress (and damaging it, for example.) Because to me this episode really highlighted the Draper and Campbell marriages, I was especially taken by the language of Betty and Trudy's clothing, As to be expected, Betty's clothing changes before and after her trip to Rome were especially dramatic. Did you notice how her metamorphisis from suburban houswife to fashion-forward ingenue happens? First we see her in proper buttoned-up all-business attire for the city hall meeting, then to a more colorful, but still sober pink suit on the trip to Rome. Then in Rome…mamma mia! She takes on a whole other personna, even down to her underwear. Notice when she arrives she's still heavily constrained in full foundation garment armor, but after her amazing makeover in Rome, not only is her clothing looser and freer but her undergarments are too–black bikini underwear! I think that going on vacation often represents an opportunity to explore different facets of our personality or experiment with our identities, and Betty's costuming really registers that. Sadly, when she returns home, the magic is gone, and it can't be recreated, even when she wears a Pucci print dress, which is definitely fashion-forward for Ossining circa 1963. And yes, even though I have never liked Betty and continue to see the ugliness in her character behind the beautiful facade, I really, really empathized with her outburst about hating her house, her friends, and tacitly, her life. The clothes she wore in Italy spoke about glamour, being free and, yes, power. Unlike her life in America, where she's powerless, she didn't have to "delay acting", or have a man like Henry Francis do her talking for her. In Italy, for one shining moment she was on, and now the light's switched back off.
Similarly, the clothes Trudy wore for her summer vacation, were colorful, loose and modern. I mean, you could wear that top, scarf and capri combo today. Then, as soon as she's home, she's back in a houswifely shirtwaist and crinoline. The contrast is striking.
Lastly, even though Joan is being true to her own style, that purple dress, while less fashion-forward then Betty or Trudy's outfits, is stunning. And her hairstyle is less laquered, and much, much looser. Am not sure what to make of her new job (which I'm sure is permanent, not temporary as she tells Pete) and whether or not she views it as a come-down after Sterling Cooper or not, but it's interesting she's still continuing to wield her influence there even though she's out of the office.
We didn't see Peggy in this episode, but it's clear, even just from Episode 7 to Episode 8 that there have been dramatic changes in women's fashion, of which we're getting a peek at here, and that, far from being superficial, they speak a definite language. A fascinating instance of the external speaking about the internal state of mind of these women.
October 5th, 2009 at 9:28 am
#357 Donny Brook: I feel you. I really do.
I think that what Pete did to the neighbors' au pair was not okay. It was also completely in character, and typical of someone for whom no good deed is ever truly free. There must ultimately be payback for everything in Pete's universe: even a seemingly free favor he does for someone who has no ability to compensate him for it.
That said …
I want to add something I noticed in Don and Betty's love scene. Last week in Seven Twenty Three, a drunk and high Don danced with the boho girl in her motel room. This week, Betty brought one of those same dance moves into her and Don's hotel room in Rome: but this time, she led.
I thought this was a poignant parallel. It gave the scene a touch of darkness, an all-is-not-well shadow in what looked like marital bliss.
October 5th, 2009 at 9:29 am
Re: # 87 Deborah Lipp Says:
October 4th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
I would thank anyone who could talk about what the line about the rubber/diesel smelll means. Was there a smell in Rome then? Is it symbolic?
Rome is burning.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:06 am
All the talk about clothing makes me think about last week when Henry F told Betty about the fainting couch being used by corseted Victorian women. Obviously, clothing at that time was meant to be restrictive so that women could be (literally)molded into this certain image and the couch was a way for women to handle that restriction in an elegant manner. Perhaps Betty thought about this as she looked at the couch before she spoke to Sally about first kisses. I can see her initially using the couch subversively to 'free' herself, even if in her own mind. As others pointed out, Mr. Francis trying to turn Betty's fantasy into reality turned her off. Otherwise, she wouldn't have decided in the middle of the night that she wanted to go to Italy with Don. In that moment, she chose her marriage over a flirtation that had gone too far. I wonder if she is really done with it and will she get rid of the couch.
And when I saw Joan without the severe updo I immediately thought that she is not in 'a man's world' anymore so doesn't have to put on her armor(the hair…and wasn't her makeup less severe?) to deal with the women that frequent Bonwit Taylor. She was absolutely beautiful, nonetheless. Purple is my favorite color and appears to be one of Joan's as well.
Pete obviously has very little moral fiber(at least externally), but I do think that he's dealing with much more than guilt over cheating on Trudy. Lets not forget that he's only recently found out that he has a child out there somewhere. Peggy's had all of 1962 to deal with it in some way and try to move on(although I don't think you can ever really move on from something like that). If only we could get more internal dialogue, but it just seems that there was something about Trudy talking about him acting guilty whenever they see little children(she's talking about the adoption issue, but Pete's not thinking about that). And there is something to him talking about being alone in the city in the summer and him acting like a little kid left on his own and his strange eagerness to help the au pair(I don't think it was that calculated…Pete has a tendency to be impulsive and irresponsible). I'm just rambling, I know. I'm sure one of you lovely Basketcases could make more sense of it than I can.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Pete's behaviour this week seems to be getting the same shock reaction as Don's behaviour last week. Again, Pete was completely reprehensible but I wouldn't say this is a new despicable side to Pete that we've never seen before.
Remember these scenes?
1×1: Pete getting pushy with the girl at the strip club. She was a bit more confident about telling Pete "No" but still moved seats to get away from him. Pete ends up drunk outside Peggy's door and Peggy IS interested, but the way Pete talks to Peggy forehead; being intimate while avoiding eye contact, he wasn't really checking for Peggy's reaction.
1×5: Pete pressuring Trudy to sleep with her ex-boyfriend so he could get his short story published. I still can't believe that one. Pete tried to pimp out his wife! Jesus.
1×12: Pete blackmailing Don. If Pete doesn't get what he wants through either good deeds or entitlement he'll go dark and try to manipulate the situation.
1×13: Pete pressuring his wife into trying for children just so he can get his father-in-laws account. I'm so relieved they can't have kids.
1×13: Peggy suffering a psychological breakdown after Pete seduced her and knocked her up. You can say it was unintentional, but I really don't Pete intended to make Gudrun cry either. He just doesn't consider the consequences.
I'm a Pete fan, but even I think he is a dangerous disturbed little man. You know, I still worry about that gun in Pete's office and fear he'll use it before the series is out. Personally I wouldn't use the term "rape" in this case only because in all fairness there was no physical force or threats. I just don't think it fits the definition. Was it something just as sinister and appalling? Yeah, sure.
October 5th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Nice. Thank you!
October 5th, 2009 at 11:15 am
OK. I'm a bit of a late bloomer on the blog, so advance apologies if I'm repeating anything here. First off – the thing the struck me most about the episode is women being placed in the "you are obligated to me" corner by the men. First, aggressive manuveurs by Francis at the car with Betty. He blocks her in there…just blocks her in with his arm and moves in with the kiss. She responds, but what the heck else is she going to do…sock him one? She's cornered. Then little Pete…who has no redemptive qualities for me at all in this episode, even by the end…blocking German au pair in her room by shutting the bedroom door behind her. At least she exposes him to her boss and he lets him know it so he can squirm a bit. Who comes across well here…the Italians! God bless 'em! The cigarette is lit before Betty has a chance to light it herself. The two Italians at the restaurant with Betty know "it's over" when Don gets to the table and give them their space. At least Don picks up a thing or two and lights Betty's cigarette for her in the final scenes.
…and the coup d'grace – the Italian bell-boy who responds to Don's two dollars, "Oh thank you sir the American dollar is very good..thank you!" (Grazie, grazie for that…MM writers!)
October 5th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I don't think anyone is saying "I don't like Pete today." He's always been a scumbag. Actually, he shows some guilt, or at least humiliation and remorse, which makes him more sympathetic than usual. Usually he's just clueless and stays that way. I'm one of those weirdos that loves the villian. And Kartheiser plays Pete to perfection, making him just vulnerable enough to not fall into mustache twirler territory.
October 5th, 2009 at 11:38 am
"mustache twirler territory" – good imagery, Donny Brook.
October 5th, 2009 at 11:54 am
#371 – It's funny, Donny, because apart from seducing Gudrun, Pete was great this episode. He was being nice to Hildy, buying drinks for the boys, reading Ebony, the impossibly dorky laugh over the cartoons, the return of "a thing like that"…it was all going so well.
I don't think Pete had it in his head from the start that he was only helping Gudrun for the purpose of sleeping with her. Only because I don't credit Pete with thinking things through that much. I think he did want to be friendly and helpful, but when it came down to it he couldn't bring himself to be altruistic. Which is sad, because he ended up hating himself. But I liked that Pete couldn't hide it from Trudy. And interesting…Trudy says Pete looks "guilty" every time he sees children. Okay, in the lift he was feeling guilty for other reasons. But still, I think it implies Pete is feeling troubled about his own lost child, more so than guilt over him and Trudy not having kids.
I love Pete too. I refuse to defend or excuse him. But I do love him in spite of everything. I think you're right that Kartheiser's performance has a lot to do with it. He never pulls any punches when it comes to portraying Pete's darker qualities, but also gives Pete this very naked vulnerability which is too compelling for me to resist.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Falafel,
You said it! I knew someone would come along and articulate it better than I could. I completely agree with you about Pete's emotions during his silent confession to Trudy.
And, I'm definitely one of the people that both love and hate Pete at different intervals. He's quite an interesting character. VK is so good at allowing us to see the depths(however twisted they may be) of Pete.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Blue Eyes, welcome! I like what you've written, but I have to disagree about Henry and Betty. She was much MORE cornered by Arthur Case last season, and did a very good job of saying no and stopping him. If she hadn't wanted to kiss Henry, she knew exactly how to make sure it didn't happen.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Thank you, Deb.
You've articulated something I knew I felt last night. I felt that the number of men on Mad Men who I was sure had forced women to have sex with them had just risen to two.
If there is a difference for me between Pete Campbell and Doctor Rapist, it is that Pete seems either unwilling or unable to hide from his feelings in the aftermath of what he did to the neighbors' au pair. For Doctor Rapist, raping his fiancee on the floor of her manager's office seemed to be business as usual.
Pete is an interesting study in conflict between what a person means to do and what he ends up doing. But I'll admit that I hit a point last night where my disgust at what he'd done overwhelmed my interest in how he felt about it.
Looking forward to your post, Deb …
October 5th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
It seemed to me that Pete was diverting the blame of his indiscrection onto Trudy because after all she left him alone for the weekend.
I like the way the characters are multi-dimensional, especially Pete. He is a likeable scumbag to be sure. great acting.
October 5th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Until the last few minutes, I was really happy for the Drapers. Betty's victory over the reservoir pleased her so much that she did a little Pete-Campbell-style celebratory dance in the kitchen. Don finally got to give her a glamorous (if brief) vacation and pretty new clothes. They got to flirt and make love and get to know each other again without the pressures of screaming kids or work disguised as a party. I could really see a piece of the Don who told Anna about smart, beautiful Elizabeth, and the girl who put him in that violet haze. Too bad reality had to come crashing back in so soon.
October 5th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
#380 Robin D.
Thanks for bringing up that scene between Dick and Anna from "Hall of the Mountian King". He was obviously blown away by Betty at that time and probably couldn' believe his luck that a guy like him("he has no people")could marry a girl like Betts. I think back to that scene a lot when things don't go well between the Drapers…I wonder just exactly how their relationship could get from there to here.
Also thanks to the blog for explaining how Betty was able to speak flawless Italian! That felt really contrived to me until reading about her history in the fashion industry.
I'm still not quite convinced about the Anthropolgy major though :0)
October 5th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
" It reminds me a bit of the famous sequence in Citizen Kane, which shows the disintegration of the Kane marriage through a series of breakfast table scenes, edited together with flash-pans."
I've been making films for years; I wouldn't call it a jump cut; I guess a hard cut without transitions (use of dissolves, added establishing shots). The only thing I can think of is Rear Window, when James Stewart falls asleep in the chair and his dreams are direct cuts, not dissolves. Actually, Hitchcock initiated this in his silent film, "Downhill," in 1927. Very much the "cinema of dreams" popular at the time. (Note: when Rear Window was restored by Universal, some idiot put dissolves in that sequence to make it more "understandable," so you might see an old video or print with the dissolves.) I love Mad Men for calling attention to cinematic language.
Also, — Gudren reminded me of the German bar hostess in Kubrick's "Paths of Glory," whose broken English was extremely touching and added vulnerabilitiy to the "enemy" in World War I. She was also abused (verbally) by rowdy French soldiers at the bar. Pete took advantage of a World War II loser — I'm sure Gudren wanted to come here for a better life. Like the Italians at the cafe, in 1963 America was looked up to by Europeans (especially those who lost the war).
October 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
#375, Debs
a) When did I say what Pete did was okay? I would classify it as coercison or dubious consent, only because I think those definitions are more accurate descriptives. Not because I think it's okay.
b) Pete never said "I'll tell your boss and make sure you lose your job". You can convict someone things they didn't explicitely do. Pete said "I deserve to see you in the dress" and "I'd like to kiss you". Pete never got to an "Or else…" because Gudrun started to return the kiss.
c) We can argue about what was implied or what happened after the fade to black. I think the scene continued as it had done so far. Gudrun didn't want to, but she grungingly went along with it. If something more extreme had happened I think Matt would have made it explicit.
I'm more interested in the story that's being told onscreen.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
At the start of the episode, Pete tells the Boys that Don isn't on vacation, but rather, he's been in Denver or Dallas.
I wonder if between now and the last Season Three episode, if he'll be back in Dallas, to do some more Hilton research? Nawww, it's probably Matt just playing with us — but you never know …
October 5th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I'm trying to figure out all the travel. I thought Don only got the New York City Hiltons. Apparently, it's grown to much more than that.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Prediction: The Au Pair gets pregnant, and Pete and Trudy adopt the child, with Pete keeping Trudy in the dark re: his fathering of the child, of course. And Trudy allows herself to be fooled, despite evidence of what's going on, because she wants to believe in the fairy tale coincidence.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
#387 Oh god, I hope not. I'm so over every year ending with a pregnancy. Ep 7 this year had a dismemberment rather than puking, so I'm hoping that Matt will come up with something better.
I can't understand how Pete could be "blackmailing" her. He gave her a brand new dress, there's no evidence Gudrun did anything wrong. What Pete did (and Francis as well, to Betty) was demand a quid pro quo. If I'm not wrong that's sexual harrassment, not rape. Then again, she could be under the age of consent and that's a whole nuther kettle of fish.
Did anyone else wonder if the neighbor is "the boyfriend?" That would explain a lot.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
SmilerG,
I was also trying to figure out what the hell Don was doing in Rome, if he only started with the New York Hiltons — as we heard last week.
I also wondered why Connie was calling him at home, setting up business meetings out of the country, and generally going around everyone at S-C to deal with our dapper man of two names.
I mean, I think I know … but still. It's both quite shifty, and pretty cool.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Donny Brook,
YES. It is sexual harassment.
Sexual harassment says, I used my "power" (even if it cost the man nothing at all) to give this this to you, so you give that — what's under that dress, what's on the seat of that car or on that couch — to me.
It is brutal and it feels like s**t. No matter how good-looking or puppy-dog-like the man is. Because typically, he does not present it as a true choice.
If you've been there, you know.
October 5th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
#392 Actually, Gudrun did slam the door in his face (after kissing him on the cheek). He went back to his apartment, stewed himself in booze and entitlement and went back to "get his due." It was horrible. But we really don't know enough about what was going on with Gudrun to determine if it was rape or not. She did seem to kiss him back, and she let him into her bedroom. I mean, who hasn't woken up the next day wondering "what did I just do?" Kleenex is often involved.
October 5th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
hull, that's a good question. Either it's grown or it's "research."
October 5th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
About the literal smell in Rome:
Rome must have smelled just awful – like diesel and urine and age and stagnation. It still smells to some extent. I was there most recently in January this year, and I was greeted at 11:00 a.m. at the Termini by a man pissing on the Roman wall on the edge of the bus park. Just walking through the city for a couple of days left my poor shoes unsalvageable (so pack a pair you won't mind relegating to yard work when you go). Many buildings are still covered in smog, and restoration is ongoing. Usually, restored buildings, ruins, and art maintain a little unrestored patch to illustrate the before/after difference. The fact that it's shocking to the tar-lined lungs that Betty and Don must have living in NY in the smog-loving 60's should give us a hint at the poor air quality.
That said, I think the figurative interpretation is oh, so much more insightful!
October 5th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#281 I'm with you. I'm totally willing to just sit back and let the story flow over me. Some eps I like better than others but even the worst episode is the best show I've ever seen on TV.
October 5th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
falafel, I will post more on this tomorrow. There was a fade-out, so we don’t know what there was and was not, but a threat does not have to be explicit in order to be a legal threat; I would say this could very well be rape-by-blackmail (I’ll tell your boss, or wake the children who will tell their parents), and that is legally rape (in New York, in 2009).
And isn’t it? I mean, again, we don’t know what happened. But do we really want to live in a world where sex by means of “I will make sure you lose your job if you say no to me and you know for a fact I have the power to make good on this threat” is not rape? Is okay?
October 5th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
I am wondering if Betty asked to go to Rome because she was afraid of what would happen if she took up with Henry Francis – and then made love to Don to release her pent up desires? (All of the comments and observations are getting better and better each week from the gang here and add so much enjoyment to the show! Thanks all!)
October 5th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
"Personally I wouldn’t use the term 'rape' in this case only because in all fairness there was no physical force or threats."
Putting myself in the shoes of the au pair, I thought there were implied threats. And Pete pretty much forced himself into her room.
From the moment they met, the au pair was in a vulnerable position.
That said, I wish we would have seen more of that scene and not been left with any ambiguity. But this was no doubt on purpose since, unlike Dr. Rapist, Pete is a major character. As it was, the last thing we saw was the au pair kissing Pete back, which, to some degree, seems to let him off the hook.
One thing I thought was really creepy was Pete telling the au pair he wanted to see her in the dress. Right there, he put her in an awkward, vulnerable spot.
What a creep.
I have always — always — found Pete to be pathetic.
October 5th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Ditto to #358 – little Sally in smaller doses, please. I watch this show for the grown ups
October 5th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Susan H, #397:
The shot of Betty lying awake is what leads me to believe that Betty's decision to join Don in Rome was not an impulse, romantic or otherwise. I think that she chose that trip out of fear of what she might do if left to her own devices — with Don gone, and Henry available — in that house.
Betty's power is growing. I think that she senses this: even if there is not much that she can actively do with it, she can use it with men. Like Henry, as just one example.
Finally, #398, bbb …
Re Pete's comment to the au pair about "seeing her in the dress": Oh, my God. Agree.
October 5th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I think we’ve seen both Pete and Don want to be good this season. They have pretty mediocre results, but I think they’re both trying. Don hasn’t initiated any extra-marital exploits. Mind you, if a stewardess makes the first move, he’s available. I give him points for shutting down the teacher, who I seemed to be looking for his attentions. I think we’ve seen him try to please Betty, and be a more engaged parent. Pete. Ah, Petey boy. He’s a pretty weak fella and can’t help flirting with Fraulein Damsel in This Dress, and it got out of hand. But I think he felt bad and didn’t even really try to hide that from Trudy. I think he wants her by his side because he knows he needs the marital institution to keep him on the straight and narrow. By contrast, Roger doesn’t give a damn about anyone but himself. And Dr. Harris — I’m not even going to start. At the end of the day, though, Don is still Don and Pete is still Pete. They’re each on a journey. As Joan would say “and that’s why we love them”.
October 5th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Deb – excellent point contrasting Arthur and Francis. Looking forward to your insights tomorrow.
bestbets – “Damesel in This Dress” LOVE IT. God, I love this blog.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
I’m echoing a little of what’s been said, but here are some thoughts after watching the episode:
Betty and Gertrude both play dress-up in someone else’s clothes. Gertrude borrows her employer’s party dress in order to play at being high-society for an evening, and gets an impossible red wine stain on it—cruel evidence that she did what she wasn’t supposed to be doing. Betty can afford to buy her own dress-up clothes and keep them, but once taken out of context (out of exotic Rome and back in plain Ossining) they are a cruel reminder of what she cannot be.
Betty and Gertrude each have favors done for them by men. Insurmountable tasks—an endangered reservoir, a destroyed dress—are accomplished on their behalves by men who appear in their lives suddenly and go out of their way to fix what’s wrong. Each woman is expected by these men to repay the favor with their affections and with their bodies.
Henry is a smart, smooth, accomplished gentleman, and he makes it clear from the get-go what he wants from Betty. In knowing what he wants and pursuing it (a woman married to another man), he is guiltless. Pete is an impulsive, impetuous child. It’s no coincidence that Pete waxes nostalgic for his youth (“I love this time of year. It’s quiet. It used to be like this when I was a kid all the timeâ€) and briefly dreams that he’s sitting on the couch in his undershirt, eating cereal and watching cartoons. Unlike Henry, Pete doesn’t seem to be aware of his intentions until he is in the middle of acting on them. And like a child, his guilt over the consequence of his actions is clearly written on his face. He is incapable of wearing an adult mask, least of all around Trudy.
The situations are innumerably different. Betty chose to start the car and drive away from Henry after they kissed, and (ostensibly) chose to permanently end the flirtation afterward. Gertrude could have perhaps fought Pete’s advances harder, but is no less destroyed because of them. None of us really know why each person did what they did. What do you do when you have power? What do you do when you have no power?
Betty and Gertrude are at opposite ends of a social and economic spectrum, yet each are trapped inside of homes, looking after children. Each are affected by the decisions of their keepers: for Gertrude, the Lawrences’ decision to let her stay or send her back to Germany; for Betty, Don’s decision to sign the contract or not.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
So, Betty=Pete? Genius.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Just for a moment, back to Betty's speaking fluent Italian. Unless she has a knack for languages, I find it impossible to believe that she could speak it so well based on what must have been a relatively brief period of time modeling in Italy.
October 5th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Pete coerced that girl into doing something she didn't want to do.
She made it clear that she didn't want to do anything with him when she shut the door in his face earlier that night.
He came back and implied that she was somehow obligated to him, surely that's more than sexual harassment…however….
LEGAL definitions shouldn't be the focus here!
Pete ABSOLUTELY took some kind of advantage of her, and that was a VERY WRONG thing to do!
October 5th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
# 389 – “I was also trying to figure out what the hell Don was doing in Rome, if he only started with the New York Hiltons — as we heard last week. I also wondered why Connie was calling him at home, setting up business meetings out of the country, and generally going around everyone at S-C to deal with our dapper man of two names.”
I wasn’t thinking so much about Connie’s remark about a deal being limited to just the New York Hilton properties.
As Don was walking Connie out, Hilton said: “Having me in your life is going to change things.”
I think all the travel is part of that change. Hilton doesn’t strike me as someone who is easily limited by boundaries – even ones that he laid down.
It’ll be interesting to see how the brass at Sterling Cooper deals with Hilton’s increasing demands on Don’s time and talents.
October 5th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
I can’t understand how Pete could be “blackmailing†her. He gave her a brand new dress, there’s no evidence Gudrun did anything wrong.
*snort* I think it has been established that Pete is rubbish at blackmailing. Like he always hands any evidence he could use back to the person he could use it against. I don’t think blackmail was implied at all. I think if Gudrun had slammed the door in Pete’s face he would have gone back to his room and sulked. I think the only card Pete was playing was favours for favours, same as Henry.
October 5th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
KBH, Betty's Italian may not just be a product of her time in Italy. She is a college educated and would have had a language requirement at Bryn Mawr. Her exchanges we saw were pretty simple stuff, and she did it quite well. But it's not like she was discussing Dante — which she might have been able to do at one point for all we know. I don't know if I'd say she was fluent as much as fluid.
October 5th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
edit — she is college educated. Sorry. I have a hyperactive Send key.
October 5th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
I was struck by the parallels between this ep and the one where Don drags Betty to dinner with Jimmy and Bobbie and Betty puts the charm on Jimmy.
As astute an observer as he is, Don is still an outsider to the culture of success in that time and place. But he has a hidden asset–somebody who grew up embedded in that culture. His wife. But he excludes her from most of his business/social occasions, bringing her in only when needed and every time he brings her in she knocks it out of the park. Usually he ignores it but this time (maybe it was the Italian?) he is turned on by her–and his turn on extends back to home, where she goes back into her hausfrau role and shuts him down.
He's seen her competence though..and her competence is not wife and mother–her competence is in what Roger calls lion taming. Wonder what will happen with that.
October 5th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
So, Betty=Pete? Genius.
Yes, totally. Pete saying to Trudy next time she goes away she'll come with her, so that he doesn't cheat again seemed similar to Betty asking to go to Italy with Don to avoid Henry's advances. We are looking at these stories seperately but as the brilliant 401 post observes they are thematically echoing each other. Even the small subplot with Sally kissing a boy was thematically relevant. Sally had taken the boys role; kissing him without asking permission. Betty had to explain that Sally's role is not to choose who she kisses, but to passively wait for boys to choose to kiss her. It all ties into the female obligation theme.
If you ask me there have always been a strong Pete/Betty parallel. In Lisa Alberts last scrip 'The Inheritance', Pete and Betty have completely seperate and yet mirroring storylines in the same episode. The Betty/Pete parallel fascinates me just as much as the Don/Peggy parallel, but it is harder to notice since Pete and Betty have no relationship to each other. But it's striking how much Pete and Betty have in common; both come from rich, privilaged, yet emotionally stunted families. Both are repressed fantasists who are living the sort of life they think they are supposed to live rather than getting what they really want. Both of them have that childish arrested-development quality like they never reached adult maturity, so they rely on their spouses to "hold them down".
On a surface level it is easier to parrallel Pete/Henry and Betty/Gudrun; both situations where the man does a good service for the woman but then expects sexual favours in return. But I think the stronger parallel is that Pete and Betty were both in search of a sexual fantasy beyond their marriage because they are depressed by the reality.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:33 am
My parents took a cruise in Hawaii when I was 2 months old. 1964. My Grandmother watched me. My folks took a lot of vacations when we were kids. Had none of the angst we feel about leaving the kiddies today. Sigh…
October 6th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Sex for sale! Let me count the ways. First there is Sally … gazing in the mirror after watching her mom primp … then predatorliy violating the little boy in the bathtub … never too early to practice!Then Pete overcomes Gerty's initial resistance and in a NYC heart beat she suddenly relents. Never too early to save your job. Finally, Betty gets dolled up like a ho in Rome and plies her emotional trade with Drape. Guess she was trying to save her marriage. The episode struck me as a true mirror of our times (as opposed to the sixties) … women cannot survive or thrive unless and until they close the deal.
October 6th, 2009 at 4:07 am
"A Foreign Affair/ juxtaposed with a stateside/ and domestically approved romantic fancy/ is mysteriously attractive/ due to circumstances knowing/ it will only be parlayed/ into a memory" Tom Waits
Contrast the Ciao-glamorous adventure of Betty and Don with Pete's tawdry insinuation with Gudrun. Fellini vs. Fassbinder, anyone?
October 6th, 2009 at 7:00 am
Have only watched it twice with subtitles, so I'm wondering if "Gudrun" is the au pair's last name? as opposed to "Gertrude" which came up in the captions. Interesting because I always thought that the name "Trudy" was a shortened form of "Gertrude"–another connection between the two women… besides the obvious.
October 6th, 2009 at 7:20 am
Jill, I was sure her name was Gertrude, based upon what I heard her say, but she is credited on the AMC site as Gudrun.
Subtitles are helpful, but they are not created by the writers, and so they can be wrong.
October 6th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Responding to the comments around # 20 series…about Betts' emptiness…how can we ever truly and fairly evaluate Betts when she is married to someone who is living a lie. She knows nothing of the real Don. She begged him to let her in (season 1?), but he never did. Isn't that always simmering beneath the surface (which is one of my favorite things about this show)? Isn't that why Don is always distant? Although, I did feel bad for him when she snottily rejected his gift. He meant well, but was clueless. Although, I have to admit, as I was watching, I was expecting and preparing for a visual of MAJOR jewelry in that box (you know, some serious diamonds, etc.)…but at the same time I was almost dreading if it were, it would be just a tiny bit yucky, like she was a prostitute, which, by the way, as fabu as she looked, she was about one style note away from.
October 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
I just re-watched this episode in preparation for tonight's new one, and I realized that in the scene where Francine is in the kitchen, that Betty had made lasagna for dinner., The half-eaten dish, along with the chunk of Parmesan next to it, lies there, and Betty notes: "The kids wouldn't eat it." Betty is trying to integrate the Italian experience into her home life, and she can't.
October 11th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Christiana – great catch.
October 11th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I hope the following observation wasn't said in a newer blog post… I didn't see it in these comments, so I am going to share it here.
From the time Don sits down at the cafe, until Connie calls the hotel the next morning – it didn't seem like we were watching Don & Betty. Whenever Don is away, he is much more like Dick Whitman than Don Draper.
They are obviously pretending to be strangers in the cafe, until Connie arrives. I believe that was Dick Whitman. And Betty – well, she's usually fake too, so she got to be more of herself in Rome. So… we have Dick Whitman and Betty's true person coming together for the first time, and it's amazing! There's real chemistry! That's why Betty gets so pissed when it changes so suddenly… Connie calls, Don has to go… he kisses her on the forehead… they get home and he gives her a typical souvenir… she had a taste of what could be between them, and it won't happen unless they both let their true identities come out.