I’m having a hard time with Ken’s being dateless for Roger’s party.
Clearly it was a deliberate choice on the writers (Dahvi Waller and Matt), perhaps to show give Pete a little one-up in this Head of Accounts competition. And I admit I am no expert on the period, but the impression I get is that at that time and in that place, you absolutely knew to bring a date to an event. It was not something you would consider and then pass on; it was understood. Maybe maybe maybe your date would cancel at the last minute, and you’d have to scramble, and even then you’d go through the proverbial or perhaps even literal black book and start going farther down the preferred list. And Ken would know this better than anyone, and probably has more numbers than most. Hell, he also has access to professionals, he might even in this case be willing to go that route.
Remember that in a somewhat more intimate setting, the Drapers’ dinner party in A Night to Remember, Duck had planned on bringing a date. I had found this shocking, but in a Mad-Men-shows-me-period-things-that-just-kill-me-because-really-who-does-that kind of way.
Duck: I’m sorry I’m late. My date canceled.
Betty: Oh, you should have called. I might have been able to replace her.
And:
Duck: Sorry I’m late. I didn’t want to come stag.
Don: Nobody cares.
Duck: I don’t know. My wife hated odd numbers.
So I’m sorry, but I’m not buying it.
82 Responses to “Ken was stag?”
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Ken came stag to the Romanos' dinner, too. There are guys that just prefer to fly solo, because then they can leave when they want to.
Well, Duck was an old pro. He may not always have been able to deliver it, but he always knew what was expected.
I wonder if it's a symptom of Ken's (what seems to me to be) inhuman levels of easygoingness.
I wonder if we'll ever get a glimpse into Ken's life outside of SC, other than the few snippets we know about him: that he writes short stories, grew up in Vermont where they made their own ice cream, and wants a convertible if he moves to LA. Even when he went to Sal's for dinner, we found out a lot about Sal and Kitty, but not so much about Ken. (For a brief moment I thought maybe Ken was going to turn out to be gay, but they didn't go there at all.)
They do seem to make a point about his bachelorhood. Wonder what that point is. Or is he simply the happy-go-lucky foil to everyone else's problems?
I think it never occurred to Ken which does give Pete a leg up. Pete can deliver the perfect corporate wife and Ken appears as if he's going to have a problem doing the same.
I also wondered why the Pryces weren't there, it was work disguised as a party after all.
It could be Ken is more of a example of how his generation is starting to feel free to ignore the cultural and corporate rules and etiquette; push the edges of the envelope out; test the customary boundaries and such.
Ken seems to try to walk his own path. Notice how he seemed to sincerely express the desire to not play the game the traditional way against Pete that management has set up. He might be a natural rebel or contrarian. His willingness to just experience the Rothko back in S2 hints at his tendency to try to be a little different.
Cosgrove is the antithesis to Campbell.
Cosgrove came from a working family, Campbell is upper class.
Head of accounts hadn't been on Cosgrove's radar, he thought it was awesome that he got the opportunity to share it with Campbell. Campbell had been waiting for the job for 3 years now.
Cosgrove seems to be more interested in earning things on merit, Cambell believes he is entitled to things.
Cosgrove just goes with the flow, he doesn't stress about office politics. Bringing a date wasn't even on his radar.
I think it's a character trait, I can't imagine Ken being the type of person who would really think about something like that. He doesn't seem phony, like bringing a date for image reasons.
When Sal invited Ken for dinner, he didn't ask Ken to bring a date; perhaps he didn't want the competition (at least subconciously).
I, too, wonder about Ken's private life. He's presented as a "go his own way" kind of guy, but maybe there'll be some sort of revelation in the future.
For all we know he could be Batman . . .
Yeah JS, Ken strikes me as very genuine, not phony.
I'm thinking of his reaction to the Pete and Trudy dance number, I don't have the exact line, but he wishes he'd have brought a date to have that kind of fun rather than to feel more comfortable or be more visable. That seemed authentic.
Maybe SC is more of a job than a career to him.
I think, also, it wasn't just about bringing a date. It was about bringing the right date. Ken couldn't show up with any of the girls from the automat like he did with Pete's bachelor party, or any of his "professional" acquaintances. I get the sense that Ken only deals in fun-time women. Even though he went to Columbia, and probably knows plenty of women from Barnard, they're just not his thing. Wasn't he the one who made that crack about Jackie O when they were watching the film of her speaking Spanish? Something about her having that annoying finishing school vibe?
@Susan M: "For all we know he could be Batman . . ."
Great. Now I've got the old Adam West Batman theme running through my head except with the girls singing "Cosgrove" instead of "Batman". Nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh Cos-grove! :p
I'm gonna go with the group and say that Ken probably didn't consider that he'd need / be expected to have a date for the party. He doesn't seem to see women as companions, just potential conquests or servants (i.e. secretaries). The one exception is Peggy, but as he demonstrated during the Harlequin campaign pitch he doesn't really categorize her as a woman. Coming from a working class family, he's probably somewhat unaware of the social rules that people like Duck are so embarrassed to break.
Wasn’t he the one who made that crack about Jackie O when they were watching the film of her speaking Spanish? Something about her having that annoying finishing school vibe?
That was Pete, not Ken.
Maybe it's a legacy of some more formal era. Remember, Betty is a country club Republican main line blue blood. I know people like that and have been to dinner with them. They ARE more formal, at least until everyone gets drunk and starts singing So Long, Farwell, Auf Wiedersehn, Good Night at the table. There are certain expectations, like, never come to dinner dressed in jeans. Always bring some little gift for the hostess. My BFF is from this strata and even today, he is uncomfortable going to a wedding or other formal occasion stag.
Go figure. I'm just a girl from a gray collar family. Nobody cares.
Comes up also in "Love Among the Ruins." Roger asks Margaret if she's "worried about an odd number" at her wedding and offers to find Mona a date. Mona shoots right back "I have a date." Love her. She will always be the true Mrs. Sterling
I kept going back and forth between Ken didn't think to bring a date and that he doesn't know any "nice" girls. The kind of girls you would introduce to your boss. It was work disguised as a party so maybe he also didn't see the point for that. I too want to see more of Ken's life. Ken and Hildy are my favs.
I wish they would give Ken some backstory because really, we don't know. However, I'll go with it being a class thing since the whole episode is about class. When I lived in NY, I was often baffled by the necessity of unwritten social rules of some of my "higher class" friends, and often just didn't bother to follow them even when I was aware of them. It's a subtle form of class warfare. Call me a rebel.
I guess he could have brought "Vickie," that would have made things fun.
#18… But awfully expensive, since she charges by the hour.
If Ken went to Columbia, he met plenty of people during his college years, and most likely still hangs out with them. He might downplay the fact that he's working in advertising, since he wants to be a writer, and the promotion caught him by surprise, since he doesn't see himself having a career in advertising, it's something to do while he lands stories in the magazines.
Elmore Leonard and Lawrence Kasdan both started in advertising — I can see Ken having an entire life separate from Sterling Cooper that we just haven't seen yet.
#21 I agree re: Ken's inner life. I want to know more about him.
I also don't think he had a clue about bringing a date to that party. I don't think it occurred to him until he saw Pete and Trudy dancing. And, only then, as someone else pointed out, because it looked like they were having fun dancing.
Ken isn't that bright socially. Until he's in a serious relationship, he is liable to miss the niceties and nuances.
The party was divided between people who belonged and people who didn't. Betty, being beautiful and raised the right way, belonged. Don looks like he belongs, acts like he belongs, and that's good enough. The Campbells soooooo belong. The Cranes were way out of their league.
Jane is also out of her league. She has the looks, but not the "skills." However, who is going to say that? She's if I were going to be nice, I'd say she's a little Joan Fontaine in Rebecca — thrust into a world she doesn't know, but is expected to be the Mistress of Manderley. She has no hostess skills and is too self-involved to notice a woman is visibly pregnant.
Ken's frame of reference is bachelorhood — he likes being unencumbered in case a juicy gazelle — er, anyhow. He wasn't playing the game, because he was clueless, at least at first.
Ken is clueless but not stupid; he knows how to play the game. He knows, "they want us to hate each other." He knows how to catch a gazelle. He didn't realize he needed to bring a date because it looked fun, he realized that Pete & Trudy were scoring points.
And Ken doesn't want to be a writer. Per Gold Violin; "it's a hobby."
Guess I'm saying what you're saying, Deb, you just typed faster than me !
He may say he knows how to catch a gazelle, but where's the proof of that? He's clumsy in his dealings with women from what we've seen so far. His pass at Peggy in the pilot; his weird story about the two-headed calf when he was attempting to charm that one set of twins (during the double-sided aluminum casting call). We've never actually seen him with a woman, not even at the office party. Apart from the girl he chased around only to lift up her skirt to see the color of her panties.
Writers sometimes call it a hobby, because they don't want to let on in case they fail.
His mom or a sister might have known to tell him to bring flowers to Kitty or he might not have read it somewhere, but didn't know the finer etiquette. Ha, he should have asked Joan!
Ken saying that writing is "just a hobby" may have been self-deprecating. We know that Matt uses Ken as a standin for himself as a struggling writer, perhaps he's actually more serious about it than he lets on. It would certainly explain the "whatever" attitude he displays towards Sterling Coo (including not bothering to bring a date), if he's just in it for writing fodder.
Jinx, Ms. Darkly!
I've been wondering about how things might unfold with Ken, ever since last season when he dined with the Romanos. While the attraction is strictly on Sal's part, we were all just left hanging there, with a "well, that was interesting" sense.
Will Sal make another move toward Ken (and maybe go after more than his cigarette lighter?!?).
What with Sal's "close encounter" in Charm City, in episode 1, and the preview/teaser after MOKH last Sunday, (Sal's wife saying to him 'something's wrong, isn't it?'), it's a safe bet that his conflicted sexual identity storyline is headed somewhere — but where, and with whom???
Brenda #21 —
James Dickey started in advertising, too. While he was writing jingles for Coca-Cola, he was writing his head off with his own work. This would have been in the late '50s, early '60s as well.
Yes, absolutely, in that period almost ALL formal social events were coupled (if it was an event that included women at all.) That Ken would go stag to a formal event given by the head of his company – no, no, no. It would be an insult to his hostess and/or host.
If you were stag and a man, you consulted your little black book, or friends fixed you up. (Bringing a prostitute to an event like the Sterling party, unthinkable, unless Ken is angling on being fired without recommendations, in the day when employees would stay with an employer for decades, or life.)
If a woman, you just didn't go to a formal event, if you didn't have a date. Women didn't ask men out (unless in a situation like an all female school, where a date must be brought in from outside.) A cousin might do in a pinch, or so I've read (but, frankly, I never encountered that in reality), or you might be dragooned into coupling up with a spare man.
However, dating or socializing in a couple, didn't necessarily mean sex — it was assumed socially that sex WASN'T on the menu (with the sort of "nice" girls one would take to a formal occasion, in any case). (There may have been sex, but the social construction was to believe in romance, maybe, but eventually, not necessarily with a first date, or first three or four.)
Without the pressure of sex, women could date more than one man at a time, "play the field," for a time, without being thought a slut. No, she was merely deciding between her "suitors." (My stepmother had three and chose my father, — God help us all — and after nearly a year of sexless dating, they married in 1963.)
Even in junior high I had a neighbor tell me she couldn't invite me to her party, because it was all couples.
Later, dating one of the most popular boys (hah!) I was at one of her next "couples" party. No big deal, that party.
No one went to the Prom uncoupled either (that was unthinkable), groups of friends were still coupled up, and it didn't count unless there was some kind of romance implied, or the pretence of a romance.
This is a BIG anachronistic gaffe on the part of Mad Men — but I think they're using it to signal something big about Ken.
I'm surprised I haven't seen it here yet: but Ken = deep in the closet. He's one of those straight-apearing gay guys who can pass much longer into the '60s, but Sal knew on some level.
One reason Sal marries is cover (not the only reason) but Ken doesn't need to "limit his exposure."
I predict Ken and Sal, at some point.
Can't wait to chant "I told you so," in the comment threads.
Hopefully this post isn't too far off topic, but with the mentions of people later known in other areas, having been in advertising at some point earlier in their careers, I wanted to recommend three books.
The first two are by the legendary David Ogilvy, "Confessions of an Advertising Man" (1963) and "Ogilvy on Advertising" (1983). The other one is more recent, published just this year, "The King of Madison Avenue," by Kenneth Roman, an Ogilvy colleague.
These three volumes are a must for anyone who is interested in the craft.
Finally, author Salman Rushdie's worked for Ogilvy & Mather, before embarking on a writing career.
And yesssssssssss my father and stepmother made a point of "being good" before they married, even though as adults this would be their second marriage each, and neither was particularly religious.
Same with my high school love life in the '60s: with the object lesson of the few girls who did get pregnant in high school, and were forced to drop out and marry, I went a year with my first serious boyfriend without sex (or even a bared breast) until we broke up. Necking was a fine, and prolonged, art back then.
It took a second high school boyfriend over six months, and me beyond 18, to get to intercourse.
It was assumed that nice girls didn't (even though some did, of course), so dating was more casual, and coupling up for formal events also didn't imply sex, or even romance, necessarily.
@judybrowni — yes, I thought that's where the Sal-Ken dinner was headed (and I thought maybe Ken was way deep in the closet too- and trying a little too hard at the office to be a regular guy, plus wasn't he the one who recoiled when "Smeeth" talked about sex with a man? I thought it could be his way of overcompensating) but then I didn't pick up anything like that during the dinner scene with Sal. Did you?
I hope the writers delve into Ken's life a little bit more. Can anyone really be that happy and well-adjusted on this show? or even in real life?
Henry brought a date and indicated to Betty that the only reason he did so was because it was expected of him. Guess Ken didn't get the memo.
Maybe Ken still has a thing for Jane. Poor Jane, she shouldn't have let all that Dior go to her head.
Deborah, I will have to sprint home and watch it again but I saw nothing in that scene to the side of the dance floor to suggest that Ken was doing a slow burn while watching them dance. ("Curses! Foiled by Campbell again!)He looked rather amused and entertained; it was a fairly impressive display and Pete and Trudy really looked happy, and in their element no doubt.
But back to your original post, you don't buy it but you believe it was the writers' deliberate choice to put him there stag. I respectfully inquire–Why would they do it? Hit me with some speculation, please.
I never said he did. I said he saw the political advantage and wanted to partake. Ken sees their competition as win-win, not kill or be killed.
Another thing that seemed off in this epi to me – why were Ken & Pete both there to tell creative they had to work the weekend? I thought they were each given different accounts to oversee.
I was wondering the same thing, Donny. I can't imagine either one of them making a special point of backing the other up. Maybe they both just happened to be there and took the opportunity to rub it in?
My take on Ken not bringing a date to Sal and Kitty's is that the purported reason for his coming was to get feedback on his story rather than strictly to socialize. Of course, if Sal had been thinking straight he'd have realized that he and Ken would get more talking done if Ken had brought a girl for Kitty to talk to.
I'm not old enough to know how much of a faux pas Ken's going stag is, but maybe he's meant to represent the lack of concern of the upcoming generation with that kind of social ettiquette. Duck's way more concerned about that due to his age, and also because his divorce diminishes him, in his thinking. He's part of the generation where social standing meant a lot more.
Of course we're not given enough about Ken to make anything but educated guesses. Class differences could also be a factor, as well as Ken just being kind of a breezy and nonchalant kind of guy to care about it.
The episode was in part about how important a "wife" is/is-not to a husbands' career. I think it was simply to show the contrast of how a man is at a disadvantage by not having a wife – no small talk at the party, no secrets gained in the ladies room to be shared later in the car, etc…
Ken is a somewhat clueless bachelor and I believe until that moment when he blurted out his comment about not having a wife – he hadn't thought much about it…
Good catch about the "wife" issue: they were considered the power behind the throne.
Important doctor's wives could affect his assessment of a junior colleague, and part and parcel of that is the woman he's paired himself with.
Socially unacceptable wives were a detriment, unless he's the boss, and even then, wives of equals could freeze her (and him) out of after-work socializing.
The connection between wives, socializing and work was so much more set in those days, as evidenced by Joan's party, and why I think Jean is being frozen out of socializing with the local (middle-aged) wives in her suburb.
Did anyone else notice that Ken was not particularly smiling during Roger's blackface serenade? I've watched that particular scene a couple times now, and the camera lingers on Ken, who looks bemused, but not amused.
My take is that Ken is half clueless about upper class social mores and half ill-equipped to fulfill them. He's very handsome, but he doesn't seem to even like the "nice" girls. What he liked about Jane, besides her obvious beauty, was that she was "something wild," dangerous and daring in their break-in at Cooper's office. Maybe he just likes the thrill of the chase, and wild game is more fun to hunt than a domesticated hen. I hope that there's more of a Ken story line in the future. I do love how Ken appears to be, besides Harry, one of the few truly decent guys. He kisses Sheila on the cheek like he did for Kitty when she comes to the office–he not only has manners, he has morals. Perhaps it was his more rustic upbringing making ice cream in Vermont that makes it so he doesn't know how to act at a Country Club. But he has other, better manners. When Peggy does well, he punches her on the arm and pats her on the head–not in a condescending way, but in a congratulatory, "welcome to the team" way. He promises Peggy that he won't let Paul put anything together without her on the Maidenform account.
"My take is that Ken is half clueless about upper class social mores and half ill-equipped to fulfill them. "
I was thinking that too, he's talked in the past about a fairly simple life…I think in one ep he talked about making his own ice cream in Vermont. He's like Don in a way, not fully aware of how to move in these circles.
But he’s making 21K now, he can splurge. Probably worth it to see the look on Roger’s face.
Ken is not a yokel just off the farm; he went to Columbia. The Drapers are middle class; slightly upper-middle class Duck felt guilty about not bringing a date to dinner with them.
Even today, you'd probably be expected to bring a date to a fancy party at a country club.
I'm thinking that Ken's datelessness might well point to future plot developments.
I've read a <a href="http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=male+marriage+wage+premium&btnG=Search" rel="nofollow">couple of studies on how having an appropriate corporate wife is a huge boon to a man's career. It's called the "male marriage premium." The same positive correlation in pay doesn't hold true for partnered women though, since they may be assumed to be on the road for a motherhood penalty. In any case, in the episode of Mad Men we just watched, you could see how Trudy did all the right things for Pete, Jennifer didn't say all the right things for Harry, Joan was the best hostess for her Dr. Rapist husband's party, and Ken was dateless and seemingly adrift. No wife for the other wives to talk to and connect; no humanizing anchor that makes a company shackle on golden handcuffs.
#20, Yeah, you’re probably right, $21k is what, in today’s dollars, something like $140k? Having her “Vickie” show up at the country club would have been to quote another MM “semi-pro” “a hoot and a half.”
Agree Ken’s not all “there” socially, but he’s not entirely clueless, after all, he did remember to bring Kitty flowers when Sal invited him to dinner. Since this was indeed an episode about class and belonging, maybe Ken was being used to show the single version of “not belonging” versus the married version of “not belonging” (the Cranes). Trudy has been so groomed to be the corporate wife since birth, she instinctively knows what she has to do to advance her husband, whereas Ken is lacking this social asset. Up to now he’s been a carefree bachelor, but maybe this episode is going to set the wheels turning. I agree, we need to know more.
BTW, even though Trudy and Pete on the dance floor had a definite subtext of social advancement/scoring points for Pete, they looked sooo happy together out there, even if, like Don and Betty’s moonlight kiss, it was just for a moment. I really loved watching them.
Thank you, #47 not_Bridget, for defending Columbia. The Drapers live like they're middle class, but they have more than enough money now, thanks to the sale, to live like upper middle class. While Betty has hired a decorator, she really ought to be looking for a new house, and joining a country club (although they vet their members, and perhaps Don doesn't want to fill out the paperwork.)
I read last week that when Ted Kennedy came alone to Victoria Reggie's home for a dinner party in 1992, she teased him, "what's the matter, couldn't you get a date?" That shows that in certain social circles, even recently, you were expected to come accompanied. The only thing I can think is that Ken got a late invite, perhaps after his promotion, and either didn't have time or didn't think to invite someone.
Does no one else think of this event as the type of thing where Ken thought he might meet a girl?
I don't really see him as clueless. To the contrary: I see Ken as cocky, very much at ease in his own skin. The way he tried to get over with new-girl Jane Siegel in S2 said everything about this.
"I'm Ken," he said simply, to her I'm-sorry-who-are-you query. "Cosgrove."
The guy made the very act of being Ken sound like an elite category in itself. As if there were such a thing as Ken-ness, and he had piles of it.
I think Kenny went stag because he is always on the prowl for chicks. He sees his own stock as being forever on the rise, and events in his life that we've seen — his pay compared to that of others, his easy publication of a short story, his recent promotion — confirm his own perception.
#4 Rebecca Pryce would have "luvved" this ol' Kentucky shindig — not! Could you imagine? I think the Pryce's would have been mortified at this event. Perhaps they were invited and saw no reason to attend.
It's the end of an era for Roger. His daughter's wedding date makes that pretty clear.
I don't know if I would define The Draper's as middle-class…but I agree that they should be moving up in the world. Maybe by next season they will be moving into a larger home, it would fit with Don's new money situation. And Ken may have went to Columbia but he still doesn't belong in that country club world. Don finally made it to the level and he was still schooled by Roger that he could be thrown out of it just as easily.
Anne, I mentioned that up thread.
I left a word out of the sentence, but I mentioned it. (#23)
I think it's a combination of it being a last minute invite, Ken not having an *appropriate* girl to bring, and his thinking he might meet someone there.
In any case, it illustrates how "not quite ready for prime time" Ken really is. He may be very good at his job, but back then a man's professional ascendance had a lot to do with whether or not he was married, and also to whom he was married.
Ever since the dinner Sal invited Ken to in season 2, I've been pretty convinced he was in the closet. Too many odd moments, and what he said to Sal back at the office — something like "you've got exactly what I want" — keeps sticking with me. Seems like they were trying to draw a pretty clear line there. Although I like the idea that he represents the youth culture that doesn't really get societal etiquette, I don't really buy that he wouldn't have known to bring a date, or that he just wouldn't care. Given the fact that we've never even seen the guy's apartment or anything really about his personal life, and they made a point to portray him as more of a womanizer than the rest, I feel like his big reveal might be that he's gay.
First time commenter. Love the site!
DH, IatS, welcome!
And yet, I'm gonna shoot you down : )
I just do not think that Ken is gay. Sorry, y'all, I don't. There's nothing that feels gay to me about him, and his 'the juiciest gazelle is the easiest to catch' is frankly, more insightful about women than most of the men on the show. Or the men that I know, for that matter.
Time will tell of course, but I'm not feeling it.
Ken did twig to the advantage of having a date, but I don't think the evening hurt him much, as the Brits didn't seem to be there, and Ken (like Pete) was presumably discouraged from hustling business.
Ken is easily the sketchiest character from S-C. I know they don't have time to do everyone's private life in depth, but we should at least know as much about him as we do about Harry or Paul. Does Weiner just not want to get too "meta" with his writer character?
Yeah, a guy his age is getting to the point where being very single, as he has been the entire series as far as we know, is bound to make people suspicious of him. (That's why I don't think he's a slam dunk to get the head of accounts job over Pete.) But given that he hits on pretty much every unattached woman in sight and we've yet to see him do anything but miss, I'm not reading "gay" from him. (If he is, that's about the deepest closeting job I've ever seen.)
I'm thinking he just does not know how to do much of anything with women except maybe pick them up, take them out on a casual date, and maybe have quick sex with them, and I'd concur with some of the other posters here that the few women he knows well enough to ask to an occasion like this would fit in like Boris Spassky at a monster truck rally. (Remember, he's likely pushing 30, an age where, back then, there weren't that many age-appropriate single women left. Not only were you "supposed" to show up with a date, but she'd better have been 0-3 years younger than you, no more, no less.) It might be highly unusual for a guy like that to come stag, but he's probably thinking, they know me, they know I'm not involved with anyone, if I drag someone here I barely know they'll know it's BS, and what if she embarrasses me? (As we saw with Jane and Roger, that's a very real possibility.)
And yes, I know I spelled "embarasses" wrong.
I just think Ken doesn’t know any girls that would be acceptable to bring to this function. As co-head of accounts he can’t really bring anyone from the typing pool, which are the only women we generally see him with. We haven’t seen him with any quality females. Just easy pickups from the automat and “hired” talent for the clients. He probably thought he would mingle with women there, but didn’t realize that everyone would be coupled off.
I don’t think he’s closeted, just clueless. He’s likely never felt anything serious for a girl (how tragic for a writer to have not had his heart broken yet!).He is just now realizing that romantically it might be time to grow up a bit for both personal and career reasons.
Before the entrance of Smitty into the ring, I really though Ken and Peggy were going to get closer this season, as he sees her as a person now and is always genuinely affectionate and very happy for her success. Before when she was the “new girl” she was just another potential notch.
Wait, what, you spelled embarrasses right, Meowser. Unless they spell it differently in my country, heh.
I think if Ken was deep in the closet he'd be the first guy with a date.
I really think Ken it's going to come up that Ken's a slacker because of the way the pregnant belly-toucher mentioned that you can't go stag to these things. Like Pete will get enraged that Ken does not bother himself with things he should.
YES, I'd forgotten that the belly-toucher said that. That kind of Weiner echo is never a coincidence, as we know.
And I know I have no evidence of this, but I am entirely convinced that Ken hooks up all the time. Oh wait, Allison with the panties was a win. But okay other than Allison, I feel like we are seeing a few sinks in a sea of swimmm.
No, Elaine, you're right. Correcting my erratum.
(slinks off with tail between legs)
I'm thinking that Ken (even more than Peggy, who's much younger) might be the character to push the storyline of America's changing attitude towards singleness. They're not far out from the years where anyone who was past about age 23 and not yet married, or at least paired up with someone permanently, was regarded with suspicion in all but the most bohemian of circles. In the 1960s, that definitely started to change, and the median age at first marriage started going up and divorce was easier to get, so there was a pool of older single people that didn't exist in the prior decade, people who were perfectly "marriageable" but were not married, and in many cases were in no rush to wed (or re-wed). Older women and younger men together started to become less taboo, too.
This is going to sound a bit weird and wrong… but I thought that during Roger's blackface scene it was a bit of a taking sides moment because most of us are going to care how the characters react to that and think better of Pete than others who didn't look weirded out. I think the contrast between Ken being stag and Pete and Trudy being a hit will relate to their rivalry but I can't guess how. But Pete is more of the odd man out in his reaction to Roger and Ken is more of the odd man out in his not having a date. Pete is different in a way that we would respect and Ken is different in a way that we would find superficial. So "it's on" between the two of them and that's my comparison. Right now Pete is up in the "his own man" department and Ken is up in the "a bit weird" department.
Oh, btw, Meowser the only reason I am sensitive to the spelling of that word is that my email has automatic spellcheck and it's quite shocking how often I need to use variations of embarrass when describing my doings.
Put me down for guessing Ken is a country boy who is so far in the closet even he doesn't realize it-that explains his superficial sexual advances toward women and his relatively egalitarian relationship with Peggy.
He's the last one who will ever realize he's gay–until then he'll drift and not have relationships with women. Sal is more tuned in even if he's closeted–that explains the line.
Ken may even marry somebody after a whirlwind courtship.
I'm surprised no one considered that Ken could be bisexual.
Barring that, I think he does have that 'new single' attitude as represented by Playboy and Esquire — a man who doesn't feel the need to get married or even go steady for any other reasons but his own.
I think Ken is a bit of a free spirit. He tends to say what he's thinking, and it seems he would probably enjoy being a 'playboy' by going stag. At some point, I hope Matt finds him a girlfriend.
No; I don't get gay/bisex vibe from Ken. As another poster saliently pointed out, if Ken were gay he would be the first one with a date. Notice how even Sal is married. Also, remember Ken's throw away line to Don when Don got back, "Kurt's a homo." Ken is one of the very few decent characters on MM (if a shade obtuse). I think he is ripe for character development…I can't wait to see where it goes.
Even if Ken is a "country boy" or a free spirit, or bisexual, still, in 1963 he would have brought a date to a formal social event.
Hell, what I said about my parents, my life had nothing to do with country clubs, we were lower middle class, as was our community.
Where anything approaching a formal event, required a "date" of some sort. No pressure on romance or especially sex, but a couple. Seating would be arranged for couples, and no hostess wanted a "hole" in her table.
It's a gaffe and an anachronism, but one made by Mad Men writers to make some sort of point of their own. If only to give him the line about bringing a date next time.
I’m sorry foe the typos. I’m doing this on a handheld because I’ve moved recently and don’t have internet access yet. But that’s enough about me. I agree with the comment that Ken is enjoying the Playboy life. In many ways, Ken reminds me of a young Roger, cocky, self-assured, all about the chase. I think the only reason Roger married was because it was what you did. Someone in his position needed a wife. Ken seems pretty easy going. Any woman would be lucky to marry him. I think Ken going stag was there to highlight the importance of not just a wife, but the right kind of wife. Harry will not get raises based on Jennifer, but he will suceed due to talent. Perhaps the same is true for Ken. I had never thought about it until I read the comments, but now I wonder, did Ken go stag because he wanted to, or because he didn’t know better. Either answer reveals a great deal about who he is
I’m absolutely fascinated by this thread. So far, Ken is a cipher; I hope he’s developed more in the future, so we can answer the questions.
He’s definitely sensitive (the short stories, the Rothko reaction) and easy-going. It had crossed my mind that he could possibly, maybe unconsciously be bi-sexual in season two; but for the life of me I can’t believe he didn’t bring a date to the country club. At this point, I just think he represents the younger generation while the Governor’s aide represents the older. And it may have been a wee anachronistic for the writers to do this. We’ll see…
Do you know who's really a cipher? Joan. For someone who's one of the main characters, we know next to nothing about her past, her background, her family, etc. Literally nothing! Are her parents alive or dead? Did she go to college? Where is she from? I hope her story is delved into this season, I want to know how she got to be who she is. What fire forged her steel?
We at least know Ken is from…Vermont was it? Somewhere with maple trees.
Oh and Ken's mother is heavy. So we can assume she's alive, he said, I think, that she IS heavyset, not that she was. Loved that line, btw, made me feel a lot fonder of ol' lunchtime fondler Ken.
Great post, Joyce. I agree about Joan and I've been thinking about her background, as well. I just thought about Ken at the Country club again, and why he didn't bring a date. I'm going to revise my post. If MW said that Ken represents the "writer," then it makes sense that he hangs back and observes. Did Nick Carroway bring a date in his initial visit to Gatsby's? I think in the future, we will continue to see Ken hang back and observe in some scenes.
Lurker.
Put me down for thinking Ken is having an affair with one of the wives.
I don't remember names, but specifically the one that split away from the trio as they were watching Pete & Trudy dance.
Ken's wild, all right.
Oh wait, right, Joan met Carol in college. I don’t think we ever heard where though or anything about her past. I’m very curious. Where did she pick up the accordion? High school music class?
Great points about Joan, Joyce; I’ve been wondering about her, too. So much of her seems to be a carefully crafted image. I wonder if her age is the only thing she doesn’t want the world to know.
I just keep thinking about her line about food near a bed reminding her of a hospital. Huh? And she’s SO SO SO confident, at a relatively young age — how did she get that way?
Watching old episodes and still slightly frustrated at Ken being so unphased by everything around him. I understand that he is the writer, etc. However, he had much more of a part in story and plot development in previous seasons. Now he just has banal lines constantly wishing he were a part of things(this week he wanted to be a part of the Jai Alai extravaganza)…although with Mad Men there could be a very good reason for this.
Don't know why, but I just adore Ken…just re-watched episode 5 of last season(to try and speculate on ep 5 events of this season) and I still love the 'I'm Ken' reaction he gave Jane. As if to say, 'How can you not know who I am?'
Anyway, completely agree about Joan's backstory.
"And she’s SO SO SO confident, at a relatively young age — how did she get that way?"
And, Joyce, it's especially awe-inspiring for the 40's and 50's(her formative years) when women had very specific roles that they were not to veer from. Maybe her folks were 'show people' as they use to say in olden times(I am so replacing 'back in the day' with that phrase in all my conversations)