I think Joan will come out on top in the end. She knows how to play a long and subtle game. Besides, she far too classy (and in control of herself) to be so sadly, falling-down drunk, especially at her own party.
I just keep thinking that if Jane acts this way here, how will she be at Margaret's wedding, where she'll be facing a ballroom full of disapproval. I wonder if Roger's already figured out Don is right.
Also, Jane's hats are even uglier than Trudy's. That should be points off right there. The one she wore in the office looked a portable bonnet hair dryer.
I think they're both in bad situations right now. Joan is just way better at handling it. Plus, she's only facing disapproval from one person (Dr. McRapey) as opposed to an entire country club full. Jane tried to show up Joan at the office, but nobody out-Joans Joan. Jane couldn't pull off a line like, "Then stop talking."
I love Jane's hat. This episode was a costume orgy, and Jane's hat was the most orgiastic part. Janie and Jane: Perfect together.
Roberta pointed out to me that Jane is twenty. She's twenty. Twenty year-olds accidentally drink too much because they forgot to eat, they are self-conscious, they are too snooty. Joan has the life experience to handle such situations with more aplomb.
Jane is like a walking example of “Oh, honey, no.â€
But Joan is also in over her head. Just in a different way.
I find it ironic that these two women are supposed to be rivals over the likes of Roger Sterling. Roger Sterling, of all people! Frankly, I don't think he's worth it. Even Cooper had hinted that Joan. I feel sorry for Jane now that she's married to Roger. But Joan doesn't have it any better with her marriage to Dr. Greg.
Joan and Dr. Greg will be finished this season. She's found out there are worse things than being 32 and single. Being 32 and married to a creep, for one.
I loved Jane's hat. I know that puts me in the minority, but it appeared to be Dior, and I loved it. I also loved Trudy's Patricia Neal hat.
Roberta pointed out to me that Jane is twenty. She’s twenty. Twenty year-olds accidentally drink too much because they forgot to eat, they are self-conscious, they are too snooty.
Someone on one of the LIVEJOURNAL blogs pointed out that Jane show signs of possibly being diabetic.
Rather than diabetic, I think it's more logical for Jane to be anorexic.
Roger may be happy in his marriage (after all, he’s having sex with a 20 year-old!)
But Jane looks lonely and lost (her snobbism laid on top of an otherwise emptyness.)
She has no friends left from the secretarial pool (who were politely vicious during her return trip, even before Jane pulled rank), the older women at the party standoffish and disapproving.
No wonder Jane’s losing weight, she’s not eating (anorexic, before the term made popular?)
Back in 1968, one of my friends reacted to her mother’s new marriage (separated by it from her mother and grandparents, suddenly "alone" at home) by declaring she was “fat†(at 98 pounds.)
Nothing her friends said made a difference and her refusal to eat (which had no name then) resulted in longer and longer absenteeism from school for a former A student.
Jane isn’t eating, she’s drinking, and except for Roger (at work all day) she’s alone.
Could be her anorexia is a stab at some sort of control, even if it’s only over her own body.
I never got the impression that Joan had any interest in something more serious with Roger. They both seemed perfectly happy with the arrangement/bond they had, and if not for Roger's two heart attacks, might have continued on indefinitely.
Deep down, Joan is an old fashioned girl who wants to be wife and mother – or thinks she does. She's too much a part of the 50's to be like Peggy, which is her real tragedy because WE see so much more in her. Will she see it? And how will this marriage change her?
I never got the impression that Joan had any interest in something more serious with Roger. They both seemed perfectly happy with the arrangement/bond they had, and if not for Roger’s two heart attacks, might have continued on indefinitely.
No matter Joan's long term investment in Roger, Jane was still a usurper who upset the office heirarchy and kept her ego at the center of her work. She may be a Joan in training but Joan knows that while she may be the most gorgeous person in the room she is not the most important person in the room.
I think her deal with Jane is that Jane would have the audacity to go there and so obviously pursue Roger. Joan, like Don in some ways, seems to have a code of conduct. Running the office efficiently, and keeping her personal life out of it, even when having an affair with a senior partner is part of it. Although, Joan's long term goal is to marry a successful man and stay at home and raise a family with him. Jane seemed to come in to SC with a similar goal, but more aggressively seeking to pluck her future from the executive offices.
Don't forget that Joan fired Jane and was undermined by the relationship with Roger (which is how she found out about it). Joan rules that office with an iron fist. Joan reprimanded Jane (rightly) for breaking into Cooper's office, Jane lied, then insulted Joan, rather nastily, and got fired for it, and then showed up back at work. Joan felt usurped.
Joan, like Don in some ways, seems to have a code of conduct. Running the office efficiently, and keeping her personal life out of it, even when having an affair with a senior partner is part of it.
This makes me wonder about Joan and Don. Are they so intent upon climbing their way up in the world or maintaining any position they might have gained that they're afraid to take chances? Or seem different from others?
Don’t forget that Joan fired Jane and was undermined by the relationship with Roger (which is how she found out about it). Joan rules that office with an iron fist. Joan reprimanded Jane (rightly) for breaking into Cooper’s office, Jane lied, then insulted Joan, rather nastily, and got fired for it, and then showed up back at work. Joan felt usurped.
That happened nearly a year ago. And Joan believes that she is on her way to leaving Sterling-Cooper for good. Is she still upset over that?
That happened nearly a year ago. And Joan believes that she is on her way to leaving Sterling-Cooper for good. Is she still upset over that?
I think that there is a difference between being upset and disliking someone as a result. If someone deceives me and undermines me, I will probably not stay upset for long, but I certainly won't like or trust them in the future. Joan has to be polite to Jane because she is now the boss's wife, but she dislikes her; hence the frostiness.
I think what it comes down to is this: you can forgive honest mistakes, if a person meant well. The one thing Jane never did was mean well.
She referred to herself in front of Don as "a discreet person", in the way people who want others to see them in a certain way will sometimes say things like that. It's not exactly putting one over on the other person: it's more of a wish.
"I'm a free spirit," said one of my grad-school friends once, about a week before she had a freakout over a pan someone used to make popcorn. The next week it was a freakout over some undergrads playing Frisbee outside her window. Yeah, she was a free spirit, all right.
In Jane's case, I think her tragic flaw is that she looks for angles, expects to get away with things. She's a beautiful young woman, and she has clearly learned to rely on that … and only that. Relying on her looks has made her untrustworthy, duplicitous, and most of all not the kind of woman other women trust.
After Jane's first slip, I think Joan had her pegged. Joan's experience has taught her that what goes around comes around. I think she still looks at Jane and marvels at this woman: who not only manages not to learn anything, but is uninterested in what there is to learn.
After Jane’s first slip, I think Joan had her pegged. Joan’s experience has taught her that what goes around comes around. I think she still looks at Jane and marvels at this woman: who not only manages not to learn anything, but is uninterested in what there is to learn.
Considering the situation that she is in now, what exactly has Joan learned? Let's face it. She has made some serious mistakes based upon her own illusions. And being a decade older than Jane, she ought to have known better.
Meow! Catfight! In the fountain!
Jane's white hat was hot though.
I think Joan will come out on top in the end. She knows how to play a long and subtle game. Besides, she far too classy (and in control of herself) to be so sadly, falling-down drunk, especially at her own party.
I just keep thinking that if Jane acts this way here, how will she be at Margaret's wedding, where she'll be facing a ballroom full of disapproval. I wonder if Roger's already figured out Don is right.
Also, Jane's hats are even uglier than Trudy's. That should be points off right there. The one she wore in the office looked a portable bonnet hair dryer.
Ouch. What a scene!
To #2 – That hat was amazing. Watching Jane walk away it's as if that hat was saying, "F- you".
Janie Bryant's hats are characters themselves – it's as if they have dialogue!
Jane looked like she was wearing the Guggenheim Museum on her head.
I loved watching Joan's eyes in that scene, and I always love where/when/how she directs her smoke when she exhales.
Jane is a little girl who is in way over her head. This should be fun.
I think they're both in bad situations right now. Joan is just way better at handling it. Plus, she's only facing disapproval from one person (Dr. McRapey) as opposed to an entire country club full. Jane tried to show up Joan at the office, but nobody out-Joans Joan. Jane couldn't pull off a line like, "Then stop talking."
I love Jane's hat. This episode was a costume orgy, and Jane's hat was the most orgiastic part. Janie and Jane: Perfect together.
Roberta pointed out to me that Jane is twenty. She's twenty. Twenty year-olds accidentally drink too much because they forgot to eat, they are self-conscious, they are too snooty. Joan has the life experience to handle such situations with more aplomb.
Jane is like a walking example of "Oh, honey, no."
But Joan is also in over her head. Just in a different way.
Jane is like a walking example of “Oh, honey, no.â€
But Joan is also in over her head. Just in a different way.
I find it ironic that these two women are supposed to be rivals over the likes of Roger Sterling. Roger Sterling, of all people! Frankly, I don't think he's worth it. Even Cooper had hinted that Joan. I feel sorry for Jane now that she's married to Roger. But Joan doesn't have it any better with her marriage to Dr. Greg.
Joan and Dr. Greg will be finished this season. She's found out there are worse things than being 32 and single. Being 32 and married to a creep, for one.
I loved Jane's hat. I know that puts me in the minority, but it appeared to be Dior, and I loved it. I also loved Trudy's Patricia Neal hat.
Roberta pointed out to me that Jane is twenty. She’s twenty. Twenty year-olds accidentally drink too much because they forgot to eat, they are self-conscious, they are too snooty.
Someone on one of the LIVEJOURNAL blogs pointed out that Jane show signs of possibly being diabetic.
Rather than diabetic, I think it's more logical for Jane to be anorexic.
Roger may be happy in his marriage (after all, he’s having sex with a 20 year-old!)
But Jane looks lonely and lost (her snobbism laid on top of an otherwise emptyness.)
She has no friends left from the secretarial pool (who were politely vicious during her return trip, even before Jane pulled rank), the older women at the party standoffish and disapproving.
No wonder Jane’s losing weight, she’s not eating (anorexic, before the term made popular?)
Back in 1968, one of my friends reacted to her mother’s new marriage (separated by it from her mother and grandparents, suddenly "alone" at home) by declaring she was “fat†(at 98 pounds.)
Nothing her friends said made a difference and her refusal to eat (which had no name then) resulted in longer and longer absenteeism from school for a former A student.
Jane isn’t eating, she’s drinking, and except for Roger (at work all day) she’s alone.
Could be her anorexia is a stab at some sort of control, even if it’s only over her own body.
Judy, there's no need to put the same comment in multiple threads; recent comments show up in the sidebar, so once makes it accessible to all.
Okay, sorry about that.
Just thought the comment was pertinent to the Joan/Jane thread, and maybe not so lost on a shorter thread.
Rather than diabetic, I think it’s more logical for Jane to be anorexic.
Wasn't there something in S1 about Roger's daughter refusing to eat? It would make sense that living with him might be triggering, then.
I never got the impression that Joan had any interest in something more serious with Roger. They both seemed perfectly happy with the arrangement/bond they had, and if not for Roger's two heart attacks, might have continued on indefinitely.
Deep down, Joan is an old fashioned girl who wants to be wife and mother – or thinks she does. She's too much a part of the 50's to be like Peggy, which is her real tragedy because WE see so much more in her. Will she see it? And how will this marriage change her?
I never got the impression that Joan had any interest in something more serious with Roger. They both seemed perfectly happy with the arrangement/bond they had, and if not for Roger’s two heart attacks, might have continued on indefinitely.
Then what is her big deal over Jane?
No matter Joan's long term investment in Roger, Jane was still a usurper who upset the office heirarchy and kept her ego at the center of her work. She may be a Joan in training but Joan knows that while she may be the most gorgeous person in the room she is not the most important person in the room.
I think her deal with Jane is that Jane would have the audacity to go there and so obviously pursue Roger. Joan, like Don in some ways, seems to have a code of conduct. Running the office efficiently, and keeping her personal life out of it, even when having an affair with a senior partner is part of it. Although, Joan's long term goal is to marry a successful man and stay at home and raise a family with him. Jane seemed to come in to SC with a similar goal, but more aggressively seeking to pluck her future from the executive offices.
Don't forget that Joan fired Jane and was undermined by the relationship with Roger (which is how she found out about it). Joan rules that office with an iron fist. Joan reprimanded Jane (rightly) for breaking into Cooper's office, Jane lied, then insulted Joan, rather nastily, and got fired for it, and then showed up back at work. Joan felt usurped.
Joan, like Don in some ways, seems to have a code of conduct. Running the office efficiently, and keeping her personal life out of it, even when having an affair with a senior partner is part of it.
This makes me wonder about Joan and Don. Are they so intent upon climbing their way up in the world or maintaining any position they might have gained that they're afraid to take chances? Or seem different from others?
Don’t forget that Joan fired Jane and was undermined by the relationship with Roger (which is how she found out about it). Joan rules that office with an iron fist. Joan reprimanded Jane (rightly) for breaking into Cooper’s office, Jane lied, then insulted Joan, rather nastily, and got fired for it, and then showed up back at work. Joan felt usurped.
That happened nearly a year ago. And Joan believes that she is on her way to leaving Sterling-Cooper for good. Is she still upset over that?
I think that there is a difference between being upset and disliking someone as a result. If someone deceives me and undermines me, I will probably not stay upset for long, but I certainly won't like or trust them in the future. Joan has to be polite to Jane because she is now the boss's wife, but she dislikes her; hence the frostiness.
I think what it comes down to is this: you can forgive honest mistakes, if a person meant well. The one thing Jane never did was mean well.
She referred to herself in front of Don as "a discreet person", in the way people who want others to see them in a certain way will sometimes say things like that. It's not exactly putting one over on the other person: it's more of a wish.
"I'm a free spirit," said one of my grad-school friends once, about a week before she had a freakout over a pan someone used to make popcorn. The next week it was a freakout over some undergrads playing Frisbee outside her window. Yeah, she was a free spirit, all right.
In Jane's case, I think her tragic flaw is that she looks for angles, expects to get away with things. She's a beautiful young woman, and she has clearly learned to rely on that … and only that. Relying on her looks has made her untrustworthy, duplicitous, and most of all not the kind of woman other women trust.
After Jane's first slip, I think Joan had her pegged. Joan's experience has taught her that what goes around comes around. I think she still looks at Jane and marvels at this woman: who not only manages not to learn anything, but is uninterested in what there is to learn.
After Jane’s first slip, I think Joan had her pegged. Joan’s experience has taught her that what goes around comes around. I think she still looks at Jane and marvels at this woman: who not only manages not to learn anything, but is uninterested in what there is to learn.
Considering the situation that she is in now, what exactly has Joan learned? Let's face it. She has made some serious mistakes based upon her own illusions. And being a decade older than Jane, she ought to have known better.