In A Night to Remember, Father Gill asks Peggy to create fliers for the CYO dance, and then after she does so, he lets her get raked over the coals by the annoying committee members. Peggy wants Father Gill to behave like Accounts, because she’s Creative. But he’s not playing along and she has to pull him aside and tell him what’s what.
Peggy and Father Gill via AMC
One way of looking at this is, Peggy thinks her work will change the way she’s treated as a woman. She thinks that Father Gill will treat her like a creative professional, not like a neighborhood girl. She’s angry that he’s so willing to push her back into the little neighborhood girl box.
Meanwhile, Joan gets kicked off the broadcasting job because she was ‘just helping out.’ She’s back to being treated like the pretty secretary. Joan steps willingly back into the box that Peggy is fighting, but their stories, in that episode, are directly parallel.
And in the end, they’re both wounded; Joan stays in the box, as represented by her lingerie, which confines and injures her. Peggy breaks free, but it leaves her vulnerable and hurt, as so clearly illustrated by her naked anguish in the bathtub.
19 Responses to “Peggy thinks she'll be treated differently”
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
Meanwhile, Joan gets kicked off the broadcasting job because she was ‘just helping out.’ She’s back to being treated like the pretty secretary.
It isn't only because she was 'just helping out.' She takes the lead in that meeting, too: "I've read the scripts for next week, trust me gentlemen, it'll be must-watch!" etc.
There was no small part of it being Harry covering his own butt.
Tom, I don't agree. I don't think Harry even noticed how Joan was excelling in this position. I don't think he picked up on the value she was adding, and I don't think he knows he will be getting an inferior product in the new guy (was it Danny?). He really didn't see it.
I also don't think he's that shrewd. He is intelligent, but not–wily.
No, Harry had no idea what she did. She was defined as just helping out, and that's all that Harry saw.
Remember the meeting at the end, where she explains the job to Danny? Harry honestly doesn't see the difference between how he sees the job (avoid problems) and how Joan does (find opportunities).
I really think Joan could have had that job if she just spoke up for it, you know Roger would've given it to her. I get that it would not have moved the story forward but still…I really like this episode anyway. It's one of the best ones featuring female characters on TV.
Tom is not wrong. Joan's input demonstrated much greater insight and enthusiasm than anything Harry did. Not recognizing that is an act of hostility. It probably was not a conscience act, but do you think that the new guy is going to try and predict which soaps will be most popular at which moment?
I am not sure I would compare Peggy and Joan's stories this episode. At least not without Betty. Joan's conflict is in the professional sphere, Peggy's is in the religious community (her personal life), and Betty's when professional and personal life are the same. While Peggy would like Fr. Gill to treat her as an account manager treats creative, but the conflict is about what it means to be part of the community.
Joan’s input demonstrated much greater insight and enthusiasm than anything Harry did. Not recognizing that is an act of hostility.
Yes. The scene played out with Joan taking the lead from Harry, and the men she was speaking too were kinda in the "Dog playing piano" mindset until they saw the dollar signs she intimated; Harry looked totally bewildered that she was selling them so much easier and yet harder on the idea than he was able to.
Watching that scene, you realize Joan, relieved of her secretarial duties, could run Harry's entire department single-handedly; Harry needs an assistant to read things so he can continue jawing with the boys, taking liquid lunches, etc.
*speaking to, not too.
Peggy wasn't crying about how she was treated by the church ladies, but by what was brought up by the veiled conversation with Father Gill about the baby.
I would add that Joan and Peggy both got a foot in the door to the next level through "women friendly" products. Joan is watching soap operas – men back then assumed that's what women did all day anyway. Peggy is got in via lipstick. Even in "Three Sundays" Peggys' mother describes her work to Father Gil as: lipsticks, bras, feminine products (or words to that effect).
I think it lets the men justify "letting" a woman in – because it's work that is beneath them. Then once there is serious stuff to do, money involved etc… they boot the women back to the curb.
That scene when Peggy gets her own office and Joan is on Don's desk talking about her wedding… wow!! Was that a killer, or what??
I would agree with stephanie and add that it's okay for the men to admit they need help with women's products, because it's not thier area of expertise. None of the men in the office are going to admit to watching soap operas. They're not expected to know which lipstick colors a woman would like, or how women really think about lipstick.
What I always liked about A Night to Remember is the way Peggy treats the assignment from Father Gill. She's all business and treats it like a serious job. What comes across is how driven Peggy is.
Even though it is years away, when there is a final episode, they have to say what happens to all of the characters like in "American Graffiti" and other movies.
I am curious to see the arc of Joan's character in season 3. As #9 points out, the scene at Joan's desk shows two characters whose story line trajectories are going in completely different directions. In 2009, a woman getting married at 32 is not only common but quite sensible. Society in the early 60's not only defined a woman by the man she married but when she did shows us the prison Peggy is trying to escape. We all love Joan but there is something quite tragic about her life. She has bought into the Establishment definition of her place in society and she is too old or not interested in the Civil Rights Movement, the Hippie Movement or the Anti-war Movement. We are on the cusp of the British Invasion, bringing with it Twiggy and her new feminine beauty paradigm. I have the sense that Joan will not adapt to the times (unlike Peggy) and she will hold onto her vision of the "old days".
Another aside – any volunteer, especially working on a committee, felt Peggy's frustration when the Church Ladies critiqued her work. Because no one is getting paid, many feel that their input has the same weight as everyonelse's; they unintentionally insult her "professional" opinion. Equally annoying is the Church Ladies complete lack of respect of Peggy's time. Peggy should have blown a gasket and told them off. Maybe this scene was the writer's FU to anyone who has critiqued their work from the peanut gallery.
Re: Peggy and the Church ladies- they do represent how and why Peggy is so community less at this point of her life. They find her concept to sexually suggestive and then when she brings Fr. Gill to the office Ken jokes about her as an undercover nun. She is an outsider in either group, and sort of for the same reason (the baby). In this context it is more about her social than professional life, but she really wants to be defined professionally.
Writing this response makes the pairing of Peggy and Joan more needed. I amend my earlier comment.
I agree with portiaslegacy that Peggy is an outsider in either group. I found this comment especially interesting in terms of who Peggy is closest to at the office: Sal, Kurt, and Don.
She and Sal share a somewhat similiar ethnic background (Catholics in a WASP world). Peggy is a career woman in a culture that tells women to find fulfilment as a wife/mother, while Kurt is open about his sexuality in a culture that is trying to keep him the closet. Peggy and Don share a working-class background, even though hers is urban and his is rural. Also, they both have a career threatening secret.
Re #11- Now you're making me sad. Our Joan is going to be Johnny Soprano's ex-mistress Fran Felstein from "In Camelot". After her inevitable divorce from Dr. Rapist (she'll stick it out until the the late-80s when the kids are grown), she'll become some desperate cougar with the unnaturally-dyed red hair, that bad 70s furniture, and the smoker's voice going to Atlantic City every weekend and talking about what a fox she was in her day.
#15 – Nice call re: Fran Felstein a.k.a. Johnny-Boy's goomar. How cool would it be if Matt Weiner had Polly Bergen play Joan's mom in MM?
#14 – The Hobo Code is one of Don Draper's fundamental beliefs. The hobo taught him that when he recognizes a kindred spirit, it is the hobo's obligation to share the code and help a fellow vagabound with their travels. He recognized this immediately with Peggy and its also explains his strong attraction to Rachel. The outsiders looking in.
#13 – One thing you should consider re: Ken's comments – his insults "Gertrude Stein" and "undercover nun" can also be interpreted as a form of acceptance. Locker room humor is a bonding mechanism for young males; since Peggy doesn't seem to mind and can take it, she's proving that she can be "one of the guys". It's kinda like the hazing rookies take from the veterans on a team. Peggy is playing it the right way by not crying about insults. We will know she is on equal footing when she fires right back – "Oh, Ken. Your momma should have bought you a toy when you were little".
What's fantastic about Mad Men just now is how it shows women on the brink of the revolution that was about to sweep through society. Betty Friedan's pen would have been scribbling away at the time A Night To Remember is set. The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963. Betty Draper, Joan Holloway and Peggy Olsen are ripe for her words, not to mention little Sal Draper. The acting of all three were fabulous, just superb. Interesting too that most of the products that Mad Men do campaigns for are targetted at women – even Heineken beer and Rightguard deoderant – they need the women to stay as sweet as they are for the whole kit and caboodle to work. What a beaut touch to have Joan soothing her dug into shoulder from the pressure of her bra strap. Pretty soon a lot of those contraptions would be going up (at least symbolically) in smoke.
I don't think "Joan steps willingly back into the box" — it's clear she's disturbed, to have her work and herself so devalued, overlooked. But unlike Peggy, Joan accepts the sexist status quo, is used to working the box. There, she's valued and respected, at least.
Outside the box, the men don't see her; inside the box she's won a place for herself.
I think the brushoff description of the job Joan gives the new guy is more a reflection of her resentment; she's not going to give him a heads up or assist the clueless Harry any further.
The more I think of it, the more that last ep of Mad Men was a corruscating critique of Patriarchy. The women have to stay 'loveable' to their masters, whether it be their husbands, their senior work colleagues or God (all male). Father Gill's questioning whether Peggy thinks God can love her is so loaded with this and his song, all about Judgement absolutely sums this up. "When He calls my name". This series isn't about who fancies who, that's the small stuff, it does more for the justification of feminism than a hundred women's studies papers or a basket of 'Female Eunuchs'. Well done that oh so intelligent, psycho-sociologically astute writing team. Why can't U.K. drama be as sharp and sophisticated as this? It used to be. You guys and gals rock!