Matt Weiner: Excerpts part 2
About happiness:
I always want to say this: Just because there’s a bleakness to the human condition, there should be some joy in the fact that we’re even recognizing it. That we’re like acknowledging it. That we’re acknowledging humanity. It, it’s something that people avoid because it’s too unpleasant or it’s too complicated. It’s two things at once. Whatever. And I love the idea that there’s this spark of joy under there where you say like ‘Hey, we’re people.’
…
How many people in Shakespeare are saying like how tragic things are? The human condition is, if you have consciousness that you’re going to die, everything could be a tragedy, or you can just say, Oh my God, I can’t believe that we got to be alive and experience this and get to touch other people, and get to know people, and get to..you know?
About Joan and Peggy:
Joan and Peggy’s relationship has diverged, it diverges and then comes back to itself. And I think what you see is, Joan is still confident that Peggy has chosen the wrong way of life. And that’s kind of great. Joan is very confident. Joan doesn’t want what Peggy wants. But then, these things that she tells her in [episode] 6, ‘you’ve never listened to me.’ You know, they’re not in direct contact anymore because she doesn’t work for Joan anymore. So I didn’t want to make them best friends, but I also wanted to maintain what it is: These two very different tracks in that office.
And to me it pays off in that scene where Peggy is asking Joan how to get her name on the office door and Joan is back at Don’s desk.
October 30th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
About happiness:
The tragedy of Dick/Don these past two seasons has been that until now (and perhaps still), he has really not been connected to other people in the fullest sense of the term.
About Joan and Peggy:
The question raised by the S2 finale is whether Joan really remains confident that Peggy has chosen the wrong way of life — or how deeply she may be in denial about her situation. After all, Joan did get that taste of doing more at the office and seemed to like it, while getting a terrible dose of the downside in her personal life. She may end up going through with the marriage, but I think she’s less in denial about the attraction of her work for the TV dept.
October 30th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Speaking of Matt, this was just brought to my attention:
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/lionsgate-must-be-staffed-by-mad-men/
I’ve confirmed that Lionsgate execs are calling Hollywood agencies looking for a showrunner to replace Matthew Weiner, the brilliant creator of Mad Men. The reason is that they think Weiner’s agents at CAA are asking for too much money for him.
:-O
October 30th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
wilberfan,
That’s popped up in a couple of threads. There was a report at Defamer that denied Lionsgate was looking for another showrunner, even as a tactic. And IIRC, one of the Lipps has suggested that MW tells them in the full interview that the contract stories are overblown.
October 30th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Now that Peggy has a door, she will presumably have her own secretary. Her desk may be as hard to staff as Don’s.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
That’s so true about happiness, its fleeting, and there’s always another tragedy around the corner. I like that MW gets the duality there. And I like that the show is so well written that we can disagree with the creator over Joan and Peggy’s relationship. I’m with Karl, I don’t think Joan is still confident she’s on the right path.
October 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
@Karl
Joan did seem to enjoy reading the scripts and would have enjoyed that job, but I’m not sure that she was “doing more.” She is very good at her job, and works harder than most of the men, and it doesn’t pay what it should (I assume she isn’t pulling in as much money as the boys) because it’s woman’s work.
The only thing that made it poignant was the realization that this smart woman was a long shot for a job at which she would be equally suited to as she is to being an office manager.
So, to me it wasn’t about doing more, but deserving more choices.
Nurses, I’m told, while dong their jobs quite well, are often told — as if it’s a compliment — that they’re smart enough to be doctors. As if a nurse is a doctor’s subordinate, rather than a skilled professional in the health care profession. Since nursing is still a predominately female profession, the comment becomes, “you’re as smart as a man — feel flattered!”
The point for me, even before MM, is that feminism got it wrong at some point by not championing all choices for women. At some point it just presented women with a different, but not much longer, set of choices.
There’s nothing wrong with being a “Betty” or “Peggy” or “Joan” — or to change your mind and go from a “Joan” to a “Peggy” — or to be one from 9-5 and the other the rest of the time.
Poor. poor Joan this season — beyond the being ignored for the job and being raped, there’s Roger overriding her decision to fire Jane and also the further blow to the ego that happens later on.
And I realize this is one of those posts where it seems like I’m lecturing someone, but I’m really just taking a small comment and running with it, which is what I do.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
@Ms. Darkly,
I wrote “doing more” b/c it was my impression that she was reading those scripts in addition to her regular duties, much as Peggy started out writing in addition to working Don’s desk. It was certainly not my intent to denigrate Joan’s current job — and take your point about choices — though I would say that the TV work would represent advancement within the 1962 world of Sterling-Cooper (for reasons you allude to).
Indeed, since TV was still becoming a force in ‘62, it would have been a ground-floor opportunity for Joan, one that potentially could have more upside than Peggy’s current gig.
And not to worry; I did not take your comment as lecturing.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
take = I take
October 30th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
And to address it from a slightly different angle, MW says:
Obvs, MW is sort of the ultimate authority, but I’m not sure that he would stand by that 100% if I really grilled him on it. I think there was a consensus about the symbolism of the bra strap cutting into Joan’s shoulder at the end of the episode where she was ignored for that TV job. She really did seem to enjoy that job, and if the the ending of the ep is symbolic of her femininity burdening her in that context, I would argue that Joan may not want exactly what Peggy wants, but did want the choice of the newly created TV slot — and thus may understand Peggy a bit better now than she did when she lectured Peggy about not listening to her.
October 30th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Understood, Karl.
It would undoubtedly be a step up in that world and at that time.
***
MW is of course an authority, but I also think that other theories and impressions are part of an engaged viewership.
Joss Whedon once famously said (well, famous if you’re a Whedon-freak) “bring your own subtext.” He made it clear that he knew that there was not one definitive view and that people would naturally bring their own preconceptions and experiences to his shows. I would go as far as to say that if you aren’t bringing you’re own subtext, at least some of the time, then you haven’t been drawn in enough to be a fan.
Season one, I would have agreed that Joan and Peggy want different things, this season I would still say that’s somewhat the case. Their last scene together was nice, because I perceived Joan as reaching a place where she understands Peggy better and understands — based on her script reading gig and less than perfect engagement — that there might really be more than one path.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I wasn’t sure where to post this on the site. Jon Hamm is in talks to guest star on 30 Rock.
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2008/10/jon-hamm-to-gue.html
October 30th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I wouldn’t say feminism got it wrong. I mean, if you’re jumping rope because you’re not allowed to participate in sports, Title IX doesn’t ban you from jumping rope. On the other hand, once you start getting down with the sports, it’s going to be hard not to look at jumping rope with disdain, because it represented the prison, the confinement.
At first. it takes a very long view to know that jumping rope is fun and remains fun.
And by jumping rope, I mean the entire small section of the world’s playground that women were stuck with; nursing and teaching grade school and indeed, secretarial work are all excellent professions, but it’s hard not to say fuck that noise once you have more options.
October 30th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
What Roger did to Joan was horrible and, although comparisons are never kind, worse than what Greg did because of the insidiousness of getting inside Joan’s head, subverting her for years, doling out rewards so that she kept coming back. Of course it has a name now (sexual harrassment) but it was and is hideously ugly. Roger mentored Joan for her “promotion” to Greg. It was crushing to watch this and I will be haunted by it at least until Season 3.
Fortunately Joan likes to read and is also good at reading others. I hope to see her happier next year.
October 31st, 2008 at 1:19 am
I just watched all of Season 1 and Season 2 in one week, in between iTunes and On-Demand……one of the best shows on TV….
On Joan…..wow, she is very beautiful and enthralling. I felt so sorry for her in the episode in which her fiance did that horrible act on her. She was in control of her sexuality, yet he took that away from her. I wonder if in season 3 we will see a change in her attitude?
On Peggy….I really enjoyed Elisabeth Moss and have been a fan since Girl Interrupted. She seems to be the true “American Dream” in which she took what she knew and made herself into a top copywriter through hard work.
Joan and Peggy’s relationship is very interesting to watch. Joan both inspires and turns Peggy off. Peggy both inspires and turns Joan off. Circle of life indeed.
Question….I wonder what will happen to Don. Gosh, he seems to be living so many lives he confuses the hell out of me…..
And for any other fans out there……am I the only one who was cheering Betty Draper on during Season 2?
October 31st, 2008 at 11:24 am
Newfan,
I don’t know that there was a lot of actual cheering for Betty, but over the course of S2, I — and others, I think — came to appreciate that Betty was finally growing up.
If you really want to delve into what Basketcases have been saying about Betty, you can scroll through the comments in the open threads for each episode.