Things Matt Weiner says at a party
Here’s more from our conversations at the party. The interview, which went MAGNIFICENTLY, will be a while going up. Transcription has to happen. Be kind.
So, as I was saying…
Roberta and I discussed rebirth as the theme of this season; Matt answered that to him it’s youth (and therefore aging). He suggested revisiting For Those Who Think Young; it’s all there.
Roberta and Matt
We talked a lot about the characters. Matt loves his actors and he loves the characters’ journeys. (“Pete’s your favorite character now, isn’t he?” he asked.) He talked about Duck and Don all season in a struggle for Pete’s soul. He would love to work with Mark Moses again and hopes the scripts lend to him coming back.
He loves his actors. He cannot say enough about Vincent and Elisabeth in that scene, and in general. Theano says she cries every time she watches the scene, and we watched it again, together, during the encore performance, and can I tell you how touching it is to see that a behind-the-scenes person is as moved as we are? But really, he loves his actors. He had such praise for Jon Hamm’s comedic talents on SNL.
And by the way, Elisabeth did not trick us about SNL. She really wasn’t scheduled to be on. Amy Poehler went into labor and so they asked her to fill in at the last minute. (Congratulations Amy. “We Love You, Amy” was my favorite non-Hamm moment of Saturday night.)
Back to talking with Matt Weiner: When Matt said Don and Duck were in a struggle over Pete’s soul, I said Duck and Don were in a struggle to be Pete’s father: The look Matt gave me was like, if he was a grade school teacher, I would totally have gotten a gold star. And then I said “Donald Duck, Donald Duck, Donald Duck! Sometimes I have to get it out of my system.” And he cracked up and said, “You think that’s bad? Every time the script says “Don nods,” Robin [I think he said Robin] says “Wasn’t he deputy of Mayberry?” Ha! My first thought was it’s a palindrome (without the S) but I’m weird.
Deborah apparently shocked. What did Matt say, anyway?
And hey, that piano playing kid at Anna’s? He absolutely did mean it to mess with our heads, but also, he’s another of Matt’s kids (totally wouldn’t have guessed it, he doesn’t much resemble his brother).
Roberta already mentioned that Anna was there from the beginning; from the movie script, in fact, that ultimately got blended with Smoke Gets In Your Eyes to create Don Draper’s back story.* The scene of them on the porch in Mountain King was the audition scene, so it was already written way before episode 7 this season, when Don first flashes back to meeting her.
About Joan and Greg, he said this, “My understanding is that 15% of dates ended this way. It was time to address this issue, and Joan was the right character to do it.” He laughed that we jumped on the Basketcase who said “practically raped” (and then immediately corrected himself—it was the correction that made the jumping funny). More seriously, he said that he doesn’t see why Joan wouldn’t marry him. He didn’t say she would or she wouldn’t, but he doesn’t see this as something that would stop her. So sad, but probably perfectly correct for the character.
We were surprised to learn that Matt is not a Hitchcock expert. In fact, he first saw Vertigo only six months ago. (That’s WACKY!) He and Hitchcock, though, share a sensibility; they are both interested in the horror of the ordinary. His intention was that The Jet Set be a horror movie. You think hedonism is fun? Here it is, and it’s a horror.
He is very consciously influenced by Kubrick, and pointed to the symmetry in the opening sequence of the finale, at the doctor’s office, as an example. Symmetry and coldness: Kubrick.
He wants to show Don’s openness; he’s open to new experiences. Matt didn’t say this explicitly, but I understand him to mean that it’s part of what makes Don such a good chameleon, he’s open to every experience. The hot rod scene (which was NOT a flashback, thankyouverymuch) was intended, first, to frighten the audience (“My name is Dick”? Looking for a job? WHAT?) but also to show Don’s interest in every new thing he sees. I said, playing the city game in Jet Set was that too, wasn’t it, and Matt smiled and agreed. He loves it, loves it, when people get him, which is why he loves Basketcases.
Roberta is so often right, and I wrong, when we disagree, but here’s a case where I was right. I’ve been saying for a long time that Bobbie and Don had a sadomasochistic relationship, and what happened in the bathroom in The Benefactor was S&M, not assault. Roberta, and most of the Basketcases and the whole Internet, to be honest, thought it was assault. But Matt says no, it was S&M. I love being right.
Another thing I feel vindicated in is that Matt absolutely says, as I have absolutely said all along, “Don Draper is a good person. Don Draper has values. They’re often in conflict with each other, but he has them.”
Here’s a thing. Matt was absolutely sure that no one would know what Betty was about to say at the end, when she said to Don, “I have something to tell you.” The audience might have been expecting her to reveal her own adultery of the night before. And he was kind of disappointed and disbelieving when I said I knew what she’d say. And somehow I did (although many other people didn’t), but only a moment before she said it. Was it body language? It was, in that moment, inevitable for me.
Here’s what he said about Betty’s fling: She was alone, her husband had moved out, her kids were out for the night, she was pregnant (which was the only guaranteed birth control at the time) it was the end of the world as far as people were thinking, she was drunk, and he was gorgeous and totally her type. It wasn’t premeditated.
He directed January Jones to act drunk, and actually had to show her the staggery drunken walk he wanted her to use on the way to the Ladies room. Which was funny, because it meant he had to give the guy the eye. Notice, he pointed out, that she’s so drunk she is dragging her head against the wall rather than walking straight.
And afterward she was eating. She was satisfying herself. Because, as Sally said, Mommy doesn’t eat. I really related to that scene; having my kid move out and living alone for the first time in my life, I related to home alone, eating straight of the fridge, feeling that moment of self-indulgence. Satisfying herself.
Matt talked about how many little gestures are scripted: Peggy touching Pete’s shoulder was scripted; Betty straightening her dress when she sees her father, Betty staggering in the finale when she sees Don at the stables (it’s very subtle but it’s there, watch for it). These things help the actors know what the character is about in that moment. The funniest was that Harry knitting his fingers together when talking to Lois was scripted, “Combining,” and Matt finds it funny that Harry talks to her like a child. But scripting the fingers? Ha!
About Don’s letter to Betty he said “Roger said he’d have to make the ‘grand gesture.’” Score!
Joy, from the Jet Set, is not a slut! Matt’s upset that people think she is. Who in this room, he asks, would not sleep with Don Draper, given the chance? No hands went up. Case closed.
Stay tuned for the formal sit-down interview, which we promise you will love.
*This story has been told in several interviews. In brief: Matt Weiner wrote about 80 pages of a movie script, about Dick Whitman, that ended with him switching identities in Korea. He put that script away, a little bit forgot about it. Then he wrote “Smoke Gets In Your Eyes,” and when he finally sold it to AMC, they asked him, ‘Okay, who is this guy?’ Then he found the movie script, and discovered it ended with the new Dick Whitman in “Ossining, 1960.” He went back to AMC and said “I know exactly who this guy is,” essentially merging the two stories.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Transcription is a bitch, isn’t it? Great start to the interview. Can’t wait to read more.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Re: Don’s openness
Don has always been curious. It’s a big reason for his success. The pilot opens with him questioning his waiter about why he smokes. Don draws inspiration from life, and (“The Wheel” not withstanding) not always his life.
October 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Amy named her son Archie Arnett. I totally loved it. Great for Elizabeth being such a good sport and coming on.
October 27th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I have always depended on the kindness of the internets to provide my Mad Men viewing, and being on the West Coast had to wait until this morning to watch the finale and finally click on your site to see what everyone else thought about it. The news that Matt Weiner came to your party made me as emotional as the letter to Betty did.
You ladies are an inspiration, keep up the thought provoking work.
Now to watch it all over from the beginning…
October 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Whitney, I agree, I feel all teary reading about Matt coming to the party. Congratulations Roberta and Deborah!!
October 27th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Teacher!! Teacher!!! *hand waving in air* I got it right, I got it right!
That’s what I feel like, but let me have my moment of satisfaction. I’m so happy that MW commented to you guys about the chicken leg; here’s what I wrote in the Meditations in an Emergency thread:
“Betty eating the chicken leg in her kitchen right after her encounter in the bar was one of my favorite moments in this episode. We heard that she doesn’t eat any more from Sally (worry about pregnancy, or effects of early pregnancy). But now she’s nourishing herself and looks rather thoughtful, not worried.”
OK, OK, it’s not exactly what MW said. But I DID know that it was a significant bit of a scene.
Oh, and Deborah…kudos not only to being THE best MM blogger (and your sis, too, of course) and having the incredible coup of getting Matt Weiner to your party, you also called it right on the BDSM thing with Bobbie. I thought people were going too far on calling that sexual encounter rapist-like and aggresive. And yes…some of us…ahem…like it a little rough once in a while. When we want to…and not coerced.
I’ll go now.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I’m so excited for the interview!
It’s nice to hear that insight about Betty’s fling. I find her character the most fun to ponder and hardest to predict. Maybe I am the only one but I felt sad when she told Don her news, I felt she was partly resigning herself. Not entirely but maybe more than half of it was resignation. Maybe 45% hope and 55% resignation. And I also felt bad for Don because it reshuffled his cards right at the moment when maybe he could have started to open up a little about some things. Now this season Betty’s been piling up her own secrets and the baby on the way seems like more of the same thing that keeps them from being able to talk.
You know why I think it was kind of easy to anticipate that Betty’s news to Don was going to be the baby? Because they were in the kitchen! I don’t think she would bring him into the house and then once he got all cozy, drop a cuban missal on him.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
hehe, missal, not what I meant but whatever.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Elaine, “missal” goes right along with the Catholic/religious/faith theme though..
Good Freudian slip…or Weinerian slip?
October 27th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Deborah said: she was pregnant (which was the only guaranteed birth control at the time)
——-
Birth Control pills came out in 1960 and were widely accepted right away.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
didn’t want this post to end, deb. i was waaaay into everything. so proud that he showed up for you guys, and equally jealous that i was in a hotel room in phoenix, still on east coast time, watching the left coast broadcast, rather than with everyone in nyc.
can’t wait for the big q&a …
October 27th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Oh Femme that’s what it was a Weinerian slip! I’ve got Peggy’s ‘baby news bombshell’ and associated imagery stuck in my subconscious! Drrr.
October 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Roberta and Deb,
1) Thanks for this blog. Has definitely made my internet life more interesting.
2) Can’t wait to read the rest of the interview with MW.
3) Re: the final scene…not only was I fully expecting Betty’s “news” to be her affair, when she told him what she told him, I turned to my wife and said, “Holy shit, I totally forgot she was pregnant!” The salon scene was only 30 minutes earlier, but so wrapped up was I — in the tryst, the letter, the board meeting and the Peggy/Pete scene — that I had completely forgetten about the pregnancy. THAT is good writing.
4) Did I say thanks for this blog?
October 27th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
#10, even now, BCP are not 100% effective!
October 27th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Birth Control pills came out in 1960 and were widely accepted right away.
As wisefish says, it’s not 100% effective. Plus, a woman who became sexually active before the Pill was introduced was not likely to feel completely comfortable with it. I mean, the notion that sex is risky was still there.
Even when I was in high school and college; a sweet spot in sexuality—post Pill, pre-AIDS, post Roe v. Wade—where sex was at its lowest risk, I knew girls who were using 2 or 3 methods of birth control (like Pill and condoms, and remember, pre-AIDS) “just to be sure.” Anxiety is always there.
October 27th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I love what you have wriiten so far about your interview with Matt Weiner. Take your time. Thank you for this site. I cannot wait for season 3
October 27th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
The early birth control pills were not as easily tolerated as today’s are. My mom mentioned how she was on them and they didn’t really get the hormones right yet and women got really wacky…. I doubt Betty was taking them anyway!
So why not give the eye to Mr. Awesome from ‘Chuck’.. I also love that show!
October 27th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Time for a great Rodney Dangerfield joke:
Guy says to another guy, “My wife and I are down to having sex just once a week.”
The other guy says, “Once a week, is anything wrong?”
The guy says, “No. There’s three other guys she cut out altogether.”
October 27th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
This is amazing. That is all I can say.
October 27th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
It is so so cool, to be part of something like this!
Thanks Matt Weiner and everyone who makes Mad Men so fun to watch and so enjoyable to discuss afterward. And thanks Lipp Sisters for proving the Basket of Kisses where we get t o have such intelligent, deep, insightful and funny discussion!
October 27th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Holy crap, I direct actors via the script just like Weiner! My screenplay professor told me to be a novelist instead. But I kept saying I wanted actors to “get” the character. I’m all for actor’s bringing their ideas to a part but you gotta let them know character quirks and such. Whatever. I’m trying to write both now.
October 27th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
So sorry the show airs on Sunday nights! Would have loved to come up from Chapel Hill. I must say, the battle for Pete’s soul was one of the best subplots of the season. I love the character, and am very touched by his sadness and desperation. I don’t envy Vincent Kartheiser, who must be wondering what’s going to happen to Pete Campbell after he’s last been seen holding a .22 caliber rifle in a dark office.
October 27th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I just wanted to say that your blog is great and wow WEINER at your party! I wanted to come in (from larchmont) but have two little kids and didn’t think I should do it on a school night . . DUMB DUMB DUMB! Oh how I wish just being able to jump in cab like the old days! Anyway, if you have another party next year, I look forward to it. Not to totally pump up your heads, but not only is this the best MM blog, its one of the best blogs outthere on any subject, because it is thoughtful but also tons of fun and the people treat each others’ ideas with respect and openness. SNARK, on so many blogs, is overrated. Well done ladies.
October 28th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Oh, now I wish I HAD cashed in those Southwest miles to be at the party!
Great interview. I totally didn’t pick up on the S&M thing, of course now that you mention it its totally obvious. He left her tied to the bed, no? And TOLD HER not to talk! And I thought Don Draper couldn’t get any hotter….
And I want my Gold Star for TOTALLY knowing that Peggy’s baby was NOT the blond moppet at her sister’s house.
Thx again for such as great blog!
October 29th, 2008 at 8:06 am
“He would love to work with Mark Moses again and hopes the scripts lend to him coming back.”
Hmmm. A bit of foreshadowing maybe?
October 29th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
I, too, love Don’s openness to new things and people and experiences.
I’m thinking that maybe sharing his past wouldn’t be so important to Betty if he could just take her along on some of his own explorations. I’m thinking of the dinner at Lutece with Jimmie’s crappy apology and Betty crying in the car afterwards. She’s not happy, as she claims, but she does like to participate in an area of his life that so defines him and yet is closed to her.
Don doesn’t just shut her out of his past, he shuts her out of where he might like to go–he shuts her out of a possible future. Of course, there’s one future we all know they will share–that baby.
October 29th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Max, yes; that was first expressed in Ladies Room. After dinner in the car she told Don she loved seeing him like that. She has seriously been in that gilded housewife cage. That’s why the horseback riding has been so important… Don won’t let her into his explorations (or meditations), but she certainly found some for herself.
January 1st, 2009 at 10:17 am
[...] 7. What dates from 2008 will remain etched upon your memory, and why? I know I should say: November 4th, 2008. Obama walking out on stage to make his victory speech. The emotions of that moment. First and foremost the overwhelming sense of relief that… we… won. Eight psychologically-punishing years had left me pretty traumatized and it wasn’t until that moment that I finally started to unclench my political sphincter. And then the realization that we weren’t just finally seeing the end of the Winger Era, we were in fact witnessing an incredible moment in our nation’s history. We had a elected a black man president. It was, shall we say, heady.(That was Maurinsky’s answer that SHE had copied from Toast.) And I mean yes, I will remember that. But also? October 26th, when Matt Weiner walked into our party. [...]