Open Thread: The Inheritance
Good evening, Basketcases, both regulars and newcomers! I can’t believe there are only four more episodes to go. I think to myself, but whatever will I talk about? And then I remember how we kept this blog active last year without ever watching a new episode, so what am I worried about, right?
So, jump in whenever you’re ready. Word on the street is that Matt Weiner and his peeps check these open forums out, and really get a kick out of them. Oh, did I mention how he’s giving us an interview the day after the season finale? That’s right, I totally did. Us. He wants to talk about it with us, because he knows that we, (and when I say We, I mean all of us here, not just the authors), really get the show.
As always, doors open at 7:00, curtain is at 10:00. Please turn off your cell phone and refrain from unwrapping candy. Enjoy the show.
Basket of Kisses: The unofficial blog of AMC's Mad Men. Where all the cool kids meet & greet to talk about Don Draper, Janie Bryant, Christina Hendricks, Jon Hamm, Matthew Weiner, & subtexty things.
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October 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Home stretch people. Here we go….
On that note, can you see Mad Men ever doing a 22 episode season like network dramas?
October 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I don't think that's wise. Shows like Mad Men are great partly because there are fewer episodes which each pack a powerful punch. Short seasons and short show lifespans mean they go out at their peak and leave great legacies.
October 5th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Noah, it'd be nice because the seasons go too fast for me but I think Matt Weiner even said he didn't want to do a 22 or 23 episode season.
Maybe the ladies could ask him more about that in their interview.
October 5th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Noted.
The Sopranos seemed to be the same model, so I'm sure he's sticking with that particular formula.
October 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Noah,
Genius takes time both for the writer and viewer.
We're all learning here.
Too much too soon would be too much not noted and savored.
October 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
As long as there are no 18 month breaks between seasons [cough Sopranos]
October 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Yeah, that's a bit too much time….
October 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Quality>quantity. And kudos on scoring the MW interview!
I think it was easier to convince people to watch S1 on DVD when it's a 13-ep commitment.
My Dad — who is of the period — is now getting into it. On Friday, there were only two period activities/settings he thought were missing; both appear in S2.
October 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I have a feeling that Matt may want to use the momentum of the Emmy win to churn out a new season soon.
Anyone know if they have announced a third season yet?
October 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
You see they picked the guy in the beard who did Joan for the walk on?
October 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
He was not one of my favorites, nor one of Deb's. Once I was eliminated, we both voted.
October 5th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Maybe he can kep the beard and be Paul's brother. I thought his video was kinda gimicky, and not as good as the others. Maybe they had the type of character picked out first, and where looking for a white guy.
October 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I would have been great as Paul's brother!
October 5th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
The problem with doing the contest the way they did is that it gives a huge advantage to the first entrants. Ideally, you would close the window for submissions before voting could begin. I had a keen idea for one of the monologues, but didn't do it because it was so late in the contest.
I think the show would be severely compromised if it were a full 22 eps. To get the quality, we'll probably have to live with shorter seasons and longer hiatuses (or is it hiati?).
October 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I enjoy this pre-show wait as the BasketCases start to show up and make comments.
It reminds me of the anticipation of opening a present…combined with really enjoying the company of friends.
October 5th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Indeed, kudos on the MW interview, Lipp Sisters!
And yes, John, I heartily concur with your sentiments – it's always a pleasure to get online Sunday nights and meet you folks here.
Only 4 episodes left?!!!!!! Vraiment?!!! Oh man. No wonder I haven't been paying attention – denial.
October 5th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
It actually reminds me of our very oldest Rocky Horror days. What are we gonna wear, where are we gonna hang out first, who will we run into at each location, and then finally, the ticketholders line.
All that before you get inside the theater. And then, getting your seats, saying hello to the performers who were already inside, maybe the concession stand, most certainly the ladies room (were all performers of all and any genders readied themselves) and THEN in the auditorium for all the official pre-show activity (announcements and performances).
Oh yeah and then the movie. Only there it was, you know, the same movie every time. That part is different here.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
oh, can't wait for the Betty/Dad stuff.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Trudy does look like a young Stanwick.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Did Don get another new car? I though they had a Cadillac.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Now there's a roomful of happy people!
Still processing that Betty family scene…
William looks about 12.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Jackie, the Coupe de Ville ref is to the Caddy.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Finally some references to the Civil Rights Movement–I figured Paul's girlfriend couldn't be around without at least a mention of it this season.
Glad to see some Black characters being slowly worked into the plot a little bit.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Kinda getting an idea of why Betty didn't press Don on personal matters.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I can't believe that Pete is sitting with his brother and referring to "Rope". Guess he wants to strangle his mom and put her in a trunk!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Exactly, Karl. Who knew that Betty's Dad had such resentment toward Don.
Happy to see Sheila again.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
"Picking from the discards."
Lovely woman.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Finally a clear reference to the Civil Rights Movement–I knew that with Paul's girlfriend being introduced we couldn't go too long without one.
Good to see Black characters slowly being worked into their world.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
"Rope." Another Hitchcock reference.
And another reference to birds ("the ottoman with birds on it.")
October 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Oh. I could have sworn William called it a Lincoln, perhaps it was his mistake.
Where is everybody tonight?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Another Hitchcock influence duly noted.
Also for those non-Hitch fans, Rope was experimental in that it was shot as essentially one continuous take. The camera would pass behind objects, etc. when the camera needed a new reel of film.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Hey Mom, your broke. I am sorry to say, I have never enjoyed watching Pete be a shit to someone as with his mom. She is a pompous, snobby witch.
I suspect Pete's mother was one of those ladies who had a hairdresser waiting directly after childbirth. Pete is such a predictable product from such a family. It actually makes me feel a little sorry for him.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Jackie, I think William mentioned a new car and Dad guessed Lincoln, got told it was the Coupe.
And yes, a little thin tonight.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Interesting how Don comes from 'no people' and had to reinvent himself – look at where Betty and Pete come from, and what their parents did to them…
"Daddy used to fine us for small talk." Can you imagine…
October 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
My favorite will always be "Rear Window" though. Loves me some Jimmy Stewart.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Gloria certainly cuts quite a figure, doesn't she? I see they have her dressing in 50's style with the big petticoats under her shirtwaist dress. Has everyone noticed there is less smoking on this episode. Don didn't smoke until they were working on the puzzle with Betty's dad and sister-in-law.
I can't believe Pete's mom and what she said about adoption! I can see why he and Bud were talking about getting "rope."
Paul is really trying to open up, isn't he? Telling Hollis to call him Paul. I dug that elevator scene. I like Sheila. I hope they keep her character around for awhile.
Wonder how poor old Freddy Rumsen is doing.
Back to the show.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
If Paul really was going to go to Mississippi to register voters in '62, that definitely raises my opinion of him. That's not something a poseur would do, that took genuine courage. But now he's not going, so…?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
LOl @ don sleeping on the floor!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I think Paul was totally showing off to Sheila with the first name thing.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
That dress makes Betty look rather full figured.
Gotta say it. The woman who is living with Betty's dad. Her dress with the big old skirt made me think she would float away. For some reason I kept getting flashes of "Willy Wonka" I am thinking about Augustus Gloops" mother.
Oooo, floor sex. Yeah! Don getting his mojo back.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Great shot from above of Betty in bed and Don on the floor.
Haven't heard this particular score (the Betty/Don love music) in awhile, nice.
BUT…it was a dream – or was it?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Now we know why there was less smoking.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Does anyone else think Betty's father look a tad like John McCain in the face?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Awkward!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
OMG! Daddy just groped Betty. Talk about a bad Dementia moment. I have never even seen something like that and I deal with Dementia and Alzheimers all the time.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
A puzzle, a milkshake, and a confused incestuous groping…
October 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I agree, Jackie – he was doing it in front of Hollis deliberately.
Oh, Gene! Yikes.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Oh my god!
Judy seems a bit middle class/ young and unsophisticated for this milieu. I thought she was daughter at first.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Too bad Betty cannot bond with Carla as easily as she talks with Julia.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Im just bummed cuz my cable company had all of season 1 in On Demand. They just pulled it off the menu tho, and I wanted to go back and rewatch all of last season especially with presen perspective Lippsisters resources
October 5th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Plus denial.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
"I know how you feel about grieving" Oh, snap!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I am so hating on Betty right now. Can't she bend a little for once?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
The groping shocked me a little…..awkward
Damn, Betty has a Mammy.
Also, Betty doesn't seem to know what she wants–first she agrees to let him come with her and then she tells him to leave….make up your mind lady
October 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
The minute you walk out that door…
You'll be shocked at how much this didn't happen.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Again Don with "What do you want me to say."
"We were just pretending." Ouch!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Yes – my husband and I both thought he looked like McCain!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Why should she? Don was a jerk to her when she was mourning her mother and cheated on her numerous times. She's standing her ground.
Go Betty!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
If you can, buy the DVD set, Greg. Totally worth it, especially for the commentaries – you can obsess for days, haha.
Some sad stuff with Betty and her family.
I agree, Judy does seem young, but she's sweet.
Elle, true, Betty just lit up when she saw Julia. I love when Julia said 'you're going to give me your temper' or something to that effect – I wonder if little Betty was a handful…but it was obviously a strong relationship – I'm sure Julia did a considerable amount of the child rearing when Betty was younger – she was probably a port in the storm for Betty.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Pete should really go adopt him one of those Chinese or Spanish babies. He could start the trend way before Brangelina did. Plus it would guarantee a cardiac arrest for Mommy Dearest, thus eliminating the issue of fully explaining her financial situation to her.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
^ definitely a parallel between the maid's speech and Don's speech to Peggy in the hospital.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Betty knows what she wants from Don. She wants it to be like it was. (a different kind of pretending) Don can give that to her, but she can pretend like that for a little while. The trust is gone.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
I don't know who I feel more sorry for…Don or Betty. I know this is tough on Betty with her dad's memory loss but Don is trying to make amends. I can see why he thought they were back together since Betty was the one who initiated their lovemaking.
I don't think there was any term for dementia or Alzheimer's back then. When my grandmother had it, the dr. called it "hardening of the arteries."
October 5th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
But wait – was the floor sex just a dream of Don's? Betty's? Or was it real? I wasn't sure. Did anyone else have that impression?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
BWHHAHHAA @ Cooper!!!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
LMAO @ Yodabert! Happy Birthday!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Still Betty just seems to be wanting to punish him, instead of work on theri marriage.
LOLOL Loved the Bert moment.
I gotta say, I am really enjoying Rich Somers in a Baby bonnet.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Laura, I never thought it was a dream. She needed that connection with someone because of what she is going through. It didn't mean she wanted him back…just the comfort.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Love:
1. Rich in a bonnet;
2. Cooper;
3. Joan's reax to the Tiffany's from Jane/Roger
October 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Joan is pissed at Rog! Look at that ice.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Now Kinsey can go register voters in the south. have a feeling the locals are gonna find him very interesting.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Thanks, Mrs. G – something about the way Don woke up in the morning had me thinking that maybe it hadn't actually happened – I will have to watch again in an hour…
It does make perfect sense, though, that Betty would need the physical comfort.
And where is Kay tonight – she would have loved that horizontal shot of Don!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Ellelque-She needs to stop being pissed or get really pissed. This in between pisssiness doesn't work. She needs to let him back and work on it or kick him out for good. I don't see him being kicked out in this era.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Joan loving dropping the bad news on Paul.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Oh that putz, he is gonna make Sheila think he decided this.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Elle,
Remember, Paul has that fab story about hanging with the Negroes and getting along with them.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
It's interesting seeing Pete trying to ingratiate himself back into Peggy's good graces – Peggy's standing her ground though.
Pete is so f**cked up.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Also liked Hildy getting sloppy w/Harry.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Hildy is in love with Harry.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
So Pete and his brother turned out great! LOL, love Pete saying that line with a straight face. I think he's more like his mom than he wants to admit.
Did Bert say "Happy Birthday?" Is his memory going, too?
October 5th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Ellelque, I think you are right about Pete's feelings for Peggy. Good point about how he tells her things he doesn't say to anyone else, not even to Trudy.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Oh gotdamn—the return of glenn the creepy kid …
October 5th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Elle, I don't know that love is what any of them are in. Hildy is really fond of Harry, and is using the drunkenness to try to express it, because it's probably always been awkward since they slept together.
And Pete's just looking to get laid. Peggy moves him, no doubt, but I don't know if it's love.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Matt said in the beginning of the season that Pete is in love with Peggy.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Love Marten Weiner!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
It's official – Betty likes Glenn more than she likes her own kids.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
This scene wouldn't be as creepy as it was if Glenn didn't have his hair exactly like Don's.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Uh oh. I smell some Mary Kay LeTourneau. Behave yourself, Betty!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Helen is saving the world and neglecting her kids. Poor Glenn. Hate the crunching.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
How…..Bizzarre
October 5th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
I don't like HAMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahah!!!!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Oh wow, first Betty's Dad hits on her, and now Glenn. This is unbelievable.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
This is so uncomfortable to watch.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Whew! Thank god!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
LOL @ Roberta!! Too true!!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
In one episode Betty is getting groped by her father and propositions by a young boy. She get's all the action.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Forget about the KKK the Freedom Riders are going to kill Paul!
October 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I have a feeling that Paul may get lynched by the people he is trying to help. God is he obnoxious.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
…and on a lighter note, here's what's happening with Paul.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
It's cool that Paul is going to Mississippi but I still can't help but think he's hella pretentious.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Ok, Paul is up his own ass.
So good to see Helen Bishop!
That was all fairly staggering with Betty, Helen, and Glenn. I have to watch this all again at 11.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Ewwww! I remember people smoking on planes.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I predict that Paul's about to get a very rude awakening.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Peggy is going to date one of the Pepsi Youth.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Telstar (song at end of show). I only know this cuz my mom talks about it
October 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Paul on the bus = Delta House seeing Otis Day in that bar.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Now that was the kind of textured, nothing really happened episode that makes Mad Men Mad Men!
October 5th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Ahh! I just tuned in in time to catch the ending with one of my favorite songs, "Telstar"! I'll have to watch the encore to figure out the significance….
October 5th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
#112, I am so with you Karl.
"Can we dance with Yo dates?"
October 5th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Note the look on the Draper daughter's face as it all goes down. She is the mirror of reality, a silent Greek chorus by herself.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Astronauts –> futuristic Telstar –> There we go.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Excellent show. Nice to see Glenn again. He does look like his daddy (with hair).
October 5th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
My bold prediction of the year: Paul dies.
I find it out of character that Helen didn't put Betty in her place about being a bad mother. I wonder why another grocery store incident didn't happen.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I was shocked, shocked I tell ya, to see Glenn in the playhouse!! He has grown up so much since we last saw him. This is the first time Betty has genuinely smiled in awhile. I guess Betty thought Helen would understand her situation with Don not living there. Funny how she can open up to someone she doesn't know very well or like very much. Do you think Glenn was telling the truth about his mom and all of her boyfriends?
Isn't it nice that we don't have smoking on planes anymore. Yeesh!
Paul sounded so pretentious in that small scene we saw of them on the bus.
Hope to see more of Helen and Glenn but I am missing Francine.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Not only does Glenn have Don's hair, he's wearing Don's t-shirt which "almost fits" him. Jeez, that was creepy.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Loved hearing Telstar!!!
October 5th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I don't know if Paul will die. But it would be nice if he returns a changed person. Maybe have a break down or something. Give the man some dramatic footage to chew on.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
And just in case Ms. Bryant stops by, Don's sports jacket was fab.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Karl, astute comment about Sally as silent Greek chorus. And I still think Sally Draper deserves her own talk show.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
I do not like Green Eggs… or Hamm.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
That blue dress looks like it is inflated with helium.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
My bolder prediction: Paul is pregnant.
(I'm hoping Noah's prediction is as ludicrous as mine…)
October 5th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
LOL, Karl!
I hope Paul doesn't die but maybe he will be taken down a peg or two. I would think Mississippi will be an eye opening experience for him.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Betty's brother has no lips.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
This may sound strange, but do you think Glenn may have some form of social disorder? Bipolar or Asperger's? I don't say that lightly. But it would account for his erratic behavior.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Daddy looks liek McCain with a little Gorbechev port wine stain on his head.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Ellelque, I noticed that, too! Betty got all the looks in the family.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Laura,
Thanks. I have to wonder if one of those Sally moments won't be key to a reconciliation. Betty is getting a look at a possible future as Helen Bishop 2.0, and it ain't pretty. When Betty asked Glenn about the boyfriends, I had to wonder if it was just being nosy (as she was in Helen's bathroom) or curiousity about the availability of men.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
And so true… NO lips.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Roberta, on this site, should we say "no lipps?"
October 5th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Also, the fact that Gene would honk his wife's boob in front of other people at breakfast speaks volumes.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I love how Sheila put's Paul in his place. That woman works him well.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Noah, I've thought about that, too. There could be something going on there, like the precursor of an illness that may manifest when he's older.
Or he could just be really mature for his age, hard to tell.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
That scene with Paul on the bus annoyed me. The implication was that the white Freedom Riders were all pretentious phony liberals. That's unfair. Going to Mississippi to register voters in 1962 took genuine courage. They weren't all doing it to impress a girl.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
This is just one guy, and it fits his character. I am sure it is not to insult or put down any the real heroes of the time. Paul is probably nervous about those Southern Folk and is over compensating verbally to hide his fear.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
I definitely think Glenn has some type of social disorder, although he's highly functional, and it's probably nothing as codified as Aspergers. Most elementary school-aged children don't watch strange women in the bathroom…
October 5th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Melville, I just saw Paul the fictional character in a real point in history. His character could never diminish the memory of the brave, amazing people who were actually there.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Perhaps Helen is hiding a mental illness of Glenn's from the other neighbors and that's what's tearing her family apart…?
Nah. Way too Desperate Housewives.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Glenn makes too much eye contact for Aspergers. He is neglected and lonely.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I'm hoping that Paul will rise to the occasion and it will be a big growth experience for him. After an experience like that, could you go back to advertising?
October 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
okay…watching this episode again, i realize Paul didn't understand why Mississippi couldn't wait…but for Sheila she really couldn't it was that important…that wast he 60s as she knew it…
as a black woman it was so hard and even frustrating for me to watch this show without thinking
how do they not realize that there's a civil rights uprising going on?
but they didn't have to think about it…they lived in an all white world.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Sneak Peek for "The Jet Set" was good, though it likely had nothing to do with the overall theme.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Betty and William – no sibling love lost there.
Interesting how Betty reverts to her hard, brittle persona when she's around her brother and Gloria (I'm saying that because Betty has been softer, to me, lately, more sympathetic).
And she kind of acts in charge at her father's home, whereas in her own house, she doesn't think she wants to be in charge, as Helen suggested she would have to be if she and Don were really over.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
This show will bring out a lot of that Elledub. As a woman, I hate the sexism, but it was the time. Just like the racism of the time was over looked. These people will grow and learn.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Good night everyone. I hope you have a good week.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
**Ewwww! I remember people smoking on planes.**
I don't know about '62, but smoking on planes lead to better air quality. In the smoking days, they had to filter and freshen the air more.
And I say this as a decided non-smoker.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Me too, tired and have to get a root canal in a.m. Not looking forward to it. Have a good night, will get on later tomorrow.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Good night ladies (and good luck with the root canal) – I'll join the West Coast viewers this evening.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
How about that ad for Viagra? Tacky or what? And in such a classy show.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Good night, Jan, and good luck with the dentist in the morning, Ellelque!
And ask your doctor if Viagra's right for you.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
The Glenn story line just doesn't fit. Is it to bring Helen and Betty together so they can relate as single in suburbia?
October 5th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
i've never posted anything before but i'm wondering why joan went against don's instructions of sending a memo to Paul re not going to LA. she took so much pleasure in it. and did anyone catch the glance joan gave paul and sharon when she came to meet him for lunch?
also both the white and black ppl that were killed in the south during voter registration were killed by the KKK, and other white ppl in the south who didn't want the old ways to change
October 5th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Aw, poor Betty… dementia is such a bitch.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
I really like Don in this episode – that was a really nice moment in the scene in which Gene grabs Betty, thinking she's Ruth – when afterwards Don puts his hand on Betty's neck in a protective, sweet way.
Oh, is it Viola, not Julia? We got the name wrong earlier…
October 5th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I agree that Betty isn't giving Don a break, but I do like that she said 'I know how you feel about grieving' – throwing the ridiculousness of his words back in his face. I think she's earned the right to do that.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
#158, Joan wanted to embarass Paul by telling him he was out of the CA trip in front of everyone in the office. There's a lot of bad vibe between them. You know their backstory, right?
October 5th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
It's Viola.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
ok thanks. yeah .. they had a bit of a thing and joan referred to it as a "mistake"
October 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I was wondering when Glen would pop up again.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Aw, poor Don… Is there any aspect of life from which he *doesn't* find himself isolated?
October 5th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
I'm surprised by the Jane/Roger thing. Happened so fast, didn't it? What's the rush?
October 5th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I haven's seen the ep yet, but I really have a hard time believing that Roger will get remarried or whatever with Jane.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Can't put my finger on exactly why, but I found last week's episode infinitely more compelling. Really not digging the Glenn story line.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
I actually like seeing Glenn and Helen again – I found the Glenn/Betty stuff from last season pretty mesmerizing, in all its creepy goodness.
I really liked this episode, but I usually like Betty-heavy episodes because I find her struggle particularly resonant (as I've said on here before).
October 5th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
From the trailer it appeared Jane was taken aback by Roger's proposal. I got the distinct feeling from her response that she was just in it for a good time and that Roger's about to get his already beaten-down heart trampled once and for all. After breaking up his family…Que idiota!
October 5th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Don has had a real fashion makeover. Because he's living alone? Sports coat and slacks instead of a suit; skinny tie, coat with a red lining. Yowza!
And Betty is in a slimmer silhouette. Even her nightgowns hang straighter; no more cinched waist, no more petticoat.
My favorite moment was Betty being relieved to hear Viola say her father was sick. Betty longs for truth-telling.
Paul wasn't the only white person on that bus; just the only intensely pretentious one.
Betty relaxed with Glen. She lived the fantasy, for an hour or two, that she had someone around who appreciated her and understood her. And she was even servile; apologizing for not knowing what kind of food he liked, and offering to cook something else. It was when she made that offer that Glen began to believe himself the man of the house. When Betty said she was sorry to Glen at the end, she was sorry their fantasy had to end.
And it's not insignificant that it was Carla who woke her up, just as it was Violia who woke her up about the lies versus the truth.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Is anyone on this message board in Austin? We should have a nerdy Mad Men season finale party at a local bar. I bet if there was enough of us we could get a swank place in the Warehouse District to turn it on… we could all dress up… it would be very Rocky Horror-esq.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
The way Betty bites into that sandwich made me chuckle – reminds me of when she said 'I like hot dogs' last season.
October 5th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Oh lord, how long are those poor Freedom Fighters going to be stuck on that bus with Pompous Paul?…
October 5th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Can't wait for Peggy and Pete again! They are only couple that's got any sizzle, including Don and Rachel who left me cold.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I don't think Paul is doing this to impress a girl. I think he's doing the girl to impress… everyone.
Again, not that she isn't lovely (she really is) or that he doesn't care about her, OR the movement. But mostly he loves the way it sounds when he talks about it.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I really did enjoy tonight's episode. There was alot of great moments throughout the episode. It was very cool to start out with the meeting between Don, Peggy, Pete and Paul and I love the moment when Don was suggesting that Peggy should go to California because she was totally prepared for the meeting. It was such a great opening for the episode.
I really enjoyed the scenes with Don and Betty visiting her father. You could tell it was so very hard for Betty because she always looked up to her father and it was very emotional at times, especially when he got her name mixed up, and when he lashed out at both her and Don. Jon Hamm, January Jones and the other actors involved were absolutely wonderful in the sequence.
The baby party for Harry was a great moment to watch and especially when Cooper walked in and says "Happy Birthday," I thought that was a great touch for the party scene. I also especially enjoyed the scenes with Glen and Betty together. You could tell that Glen always looked up to Betty and it was so cute when he told her that he was there to rescue her. I honestly felt bad for him because he feels so alone, as does Betty. I hope that we will see more of Glen again as the show continues on.
I very much enjoyed the scenes with Paul and Shelia and the look on his face when Joan told him that he was not going to California but that Don was going in his place. But then you have him traveling with Shelia on the bus and he was telling everyone on board all about advertising.
I very much enjoyed the scenes with Pete and his brother and mother talking about the inheritence he might receive but in the end not really getting anything; talking to Trudy about the adopting a baby of their own; and the scene towards the end with Peggy and Pete talking about his trip to California and confiding in her his fear of taking an aiplane flight after the loss of his father in "Flight 1."
All in all, another great episode. Everybody in the cast was absolutely fantastic in tonight's episode and I am definitely looking forward to Episode 11.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
A couple of thoughts…
1 Has anyone noticed but Don is dressing a little more "common" in this episode or is it just me?
2 Did Betty change her hair for her washed up "mini-Don"? And what's with the holding hands and eating off of his plate when she had her own? Makes me think Betty has some incest stuff going on, not to mention the Daddy thing. How awkard was that, he totally knew who Don was (non-family) and a split second later feels up his kid. And howBetty reacted and Don's face. Man!
3 I also thought that the Betty/Viola relationship was kinda sweet.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I think that Pete mentioned the flight to California in the context of his father's disasterous flight in order to get Peggy to feel sorry for him, and comfort him, i.e. sleep with him. Peggy didn't fall for it – good girl!
Don's face at the end – the world is offering lots of new opportunities – he doesn't have to stay in the narrow little world he has built for himself, especially with Betty pushing him away.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Does anyone know where the real Don Draper is from, LA maybe?
October 5th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
What an episode.
First, my feelings for Gloria, Betty's Dad's girlfriend, kept swinging back and forth. I thought she looked ridiculous in that blue skirt; I thought it was cruel the way William and Betty eyed each other, shutting her out; I thought she was desperate, running around like she was lady of the house; I wanted to slug her when I found out Dad had had several strokes before Betty had been informed.
I was never Daddy's girl the way Betty is, but if my dying father had dementedly grabbed my breast, it would have freaked my Electra shit super hard.
I thought it was absolutely horrible, the way Bud and Pete laughed at the mention of their mother and "Rope". (Don't tell me, when they were kids, they didn't play cops and robbers or cowboys and indians–they played Leopold and Loeb!) Then I absolutely forgave them when their mother threatened Pete with disinheritance over the adoption issue. I was so happy when he called her on it. "You can't disinherit me! You have nothing! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"
And Betty: making Don sleep on the floor; topping him on the floor in the middle of the night; throwing him out of the house when they got home.
I was watching the episode with a friend, Nancy, and we both thought something creepysexual was going to happen during the Betty/Glenn scenes (Can I watch you pee?) or that Glenn was going to molest Sally when they went upstairs.
Come to think of it, we had a watch-you-pee scene last episode! Ask Matt Weiner if there will be a pee scene every season, for as long as the show runs.
Pete cannot talk to Peggy. It's not just the alcohol. If he would slow down and pay attention to her responses, he would realize that he actually has a nonjudgemental listener in Peggy. She's almost saintly in this scene. But he's too busy with his own run-on self-judgement to notice. And he's too distracted by the desire to get under her skirt.
Now for the $64,000 question: did Harry's baby shower subconsciously awaken Pete's flirtation with Peggy? You Freudians out there, discuss.
Someday Paul will stop trying to be cool and realize it's cool enough just to be himself.
Bert Cooper is always infantilizing everyone around him–calling Roger "Peanut"; saying, "Now we're all better" to Don. It's fascinating to watch him infantilize himself and all the while Harry is wearing the baby bonnet.
Don is finally running away to California–only it's with Pete instead of Rachel. Now there's a Freudian nightmare worthy of Dr. Greta, our man in research.
Pete, in his Gloria-Swanson-style eyemask, is the cherry on top.
Good night, everybody.
October 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Was Don being sincere when he said he wanted to be there and that Betty needed him? He looked generally shocked and hurt when Betty told him he had to go, but as many things with these two I can never tell.
Love the coldness Betty is showing towards Don. I love the character and can feel for him but he made his bed and must now lie in it. Betty cannot go back to pretending, and even if they both tried too much has happened for it to work. Betty wants him to care or value her and "this" enough to just tell her the truth.
Why does Don want to go to L.A now? I know he is running but from what exactly?
MM seriously needs to stop with the Viagra commercials.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Now Paul can brag about his trip to the south. Well, given the curcumstances of the time. If he does, it will be a pretty brave thing to do. Hope he doesn’t wind up arrested, killed and then buried in a dam. I saw “Mississippi Burning”. Scary times.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I think Pete was trying to reach out to Peggy in his warped way. He is in love with her and can’t really see it. He tells her things he tells no one else. (His shooting story, his mother hating, etc.)
October 5th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Special Hertz ad – love it.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I think Pete was being sarcastic.
Bert was having a “Betty’s Dad” moment. This show is not kind to the elderly. They are all going demented.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Awesome!!! Glenn’s back!! And reaching out to Betty…
October 5th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Matt’s kid! He had gotten older. He has Matt’s eyes.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
its sad that betty' dad has dementia. creepy about the grabbing but since she is the spitting image of her mom (need to go back a few episodes to verify this) its tough. she is going through a lot but i love how she turned don out. she has had enough of being second best. go betty.
noticed that don's affairs are with women the opposite of betty-independent brunettes.
love the tensions between peggy and paul.
October 5th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Hi all ~ new kid on the block
Recently had a dear friend harangue me into watching MadMen. He wanted to discuss character nuance for a show I'd never seen. I know, I know…HOW could I have missed this?!
But honestly, I've been so turned-off from watching TV as the entertainment-of-choice for so long… it was hard to imagine that anyone actually *writes* anymore. And if they did, were there any actors left with the subtlety to deliver authentic performances?
This show. WOW.
________
I was born in 1964 and there is not one character, so far revealed, that I can't identify as 'someone I knew'…it's like flipping through a family photo album. My dad, a Korean War vet ….drum roll ~~~ worked in Advertising for the Dallas Morning News in the 60's (and my name is Sally
The strongest VIBE I relate to in this show is how repressed and secretive adults were in that time. It's creepy real.
And how meticulous dressing was…life was very FORMAL, then.
High SALUT! to the writers and art directors of Mad Men for bringing the essence of that era to life. It's really astounding.
I look forward to reading all your comments — looks like a lively crowd. Martinis anyone? (jest)
Two parting shots:
1) If the writers are open to an authentic 'Sally" moment, I offer my grandfather's funeral at age 10 — Floral explosion. It was a bizarre spectacle … the inexplicable sense of being in a parade ~ but I was expected to be sad. *I think the young actress who plays Sally could shine here.
2) In humor – for all the Betty haters…she may have many flaws, but her grasp of the 'immediacy' of life is not lacking in intelligence. I wouldn't have left him on the floor alone either.
(wink and a nudge)
October 5th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Jane is remarkably manipulative, TWWW…
October 5th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Yikes, Glenn’s so grown-up! I half expected his voice to have changed when he started speaking…
I’m really liking the aeronautical references (Pan-Am bag, Telstar) peppered throughout this episode as well.
October 5th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Hi sally_b. Welcome to the fray. Take your shoes off and stay awhile, and by all means, have a look around. Lots of good stuff from this season and last, if you need to get caught up. Plus we have an excellent young bartender in the form of Noah who will be more than happy to set you up with a Sally Draper style Bloody Mary or other drink of your choice.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:01 am
HA!
Looks like Jane isn’t too interested in tying the knot!!!
oh Roger….whoops!
October 6th, 2008 at 2:48 am
This episodes will require several viewings just to process it all…
Looks like Don finally got his trip to Los Angeles, but Pete as a traveling companion is a poor substitute for Rachel. LOL.
And speaking of parallels, what was up with Betty and MiniMe-Don, erm, Glenn? That was about 5000 flavors of weird. And then when Glenn started yammering about rescuing/running away with Betty, he used almost the same dialog as Don used with Rachel when he wanted to run away with her. Of course, he’s really 12, so it makes sense (maybe) for him to talk that way. But with Don? Not so much…
And everyone in the office knows about Jane and Roger. I guess that’d be hard to hide.
Must re-watch…
October 6th, 2008 at 2:52 am
Glenn: remember last season, when Betty baby sat him, his mother's parting shot to him was "and no ironing" with the ironing board set up in the livingroom. The kid is wonderfully creepy. My first thought was last season, that he is gay. Now with the doll house hiding, I'm sure he is.
The dollhouse Don built for Sally's birthday, again last season reminds me of Ibsen's play – the breakout of the little girl woman to an adult as Betty is attempting to do. In the 60's women were repressed to remain little girls:going from Daddy's house, to husband's house. See how submissive Trudy is to Pete.
Has anyone noticed when Betty throws Don out of their bedroom, he has no problem sleeping on the sofa, yet she comes to him in the middle of the night, then at her father's house, she is again the one to go to him. Insecure. Undecided want him, hate him. Can't live with him, can't live without him. Classic 60's.
As for Betty's father's dementia; being a child of the 50's, I can tell you old people suffering from dementia were thought of as having "hardening of the arteries" as someone else said here, and were just considered to be nuts, and hidden away.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:33 am
@ Roberta #179
Yes, I think you're right about Paul. And I'm hoping, with the others who mentioned it, that his trip will slap his pretensions up against reality and teach him the difference between being seen as part of the fight and actually being part of it.
I was glad to see on my second viewing that there were other white faces on the bus. I'm very sensitive about the depiction of the Freedom Riders. I think of them as being among the genuine heroes of Amercan life (and I have very few heroes.)
October 6th, 2008 at 5:34 am
@ B. Cooper #192
I thought that Betty's "we were just pretending" confirmed that it wasn't a dream.
October 6th, 2008 at 5:53 am
I've also considered Paul to be an insufferable poseur. (The beard! The ascot! The brandy snifter!) But he's actually on the bus–let's hope he takes the opportunity to learn & grow.
Some have pictured the other riders tossing him off–I think a long conversation with somebody like the young Stokely Carmichael would do the trick.
(And I wish we knew the details of the Joan/Paul relationship.)
October 6th, 2008 at 6:01 am
Hmm… I wonder if Paul will quit SC? All that talk about how advertising can change the world, and is colorblind. He may just find this trip so humbling…
…could be interesting. Who am I kidding? This is Mad Men. Of course it will be interesting!
October 6th, 2008 at 6:04 am
I took the "we were just pretending" line as referring to the whole weekend – they were acting like nothing was wrong for everyone else.
If she's referring to the sex, why is it pretending when they're alone? There's no one to fool.
I thought that him waking up alone on the floor was evidence that she didn't actually come to him.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:09 am
What a rich, deep episode! One of the things I love about this show is that it's a treasure trove of deep meanings and themes, like classic literature. I don't mean soap opera tricks, like "is Betty going to molest Glenn?" or "Is Joan pregnant?", but things like Betty's gradual coming into adult responsibility.
I think her coming to Don in the night in her old bedroom is part of her ambivalence about growing up…and how many of us still feel like kids when we visit our old family homes? But she also knew that one night of reconciliation and closeness wouldn't make Don any different. He's still the closed-off person, the forever unavailable (emotionally, that is) male.
I'm so glad that Glenn reappeared in this episode; last season I was left wondering about what he and Betty's odd connection was all about. Now I see that it's part of Betty's coming-into-adulthood story…she's no longer the person that she was, attracted to that odd little lost boy (because she felt lost). Now she does the adult thing, calling Glenn's mom, although in the beginning you can see that she still wants to be in that protected little world with him—her the fairy princess helping the wayward lost boy. And I think she's out of her depression now—and she'll start acting more responsibily herself with her own children.
And her telling Don to leave again is part of that journey to responsibility…while Don retreats again, this time to California.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Also, someone up there (can't find the post now) talked about how the characters on the show aren't particular likeable. There was an interesting article in yesterday's (10/5/08) New York Times Magazine about the new good TV series that are modeled on The Sopranos, for example, Damages, The Shield, and Mad Men–all shows that have a flawed main character. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/magazine/05wwln... (This trend follows a current style in good literature also—that of the unreliable narrator, whose character is ambiguous.)
The NYT article posits that it is extremely difficult for an actor to play a "bad" character for the long haul of a TV series (compared to a movie), and that James Gandolfini had a really tough time because he hated what Tony Soprano did. It took a toll on him personally. The writer wonders if John Hamm has what it takes to make Don Draper more unlikeable.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Coop, nah, she was just done. She's always the early riser (up until the recent drinky-girl depression), putting her face on and ready for breakfast.
We've all (haven't we?) had the makeup/reconciliation sex. What a turn of the tables for the man to think it means they're back together and for woman not to. I do see it as a sign of Betty's maturity; it's so easy to fall back into someone's arms (my god, especially those). She's smartening up.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:26 am
Femme, B. Cooper posted about that here.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Oops, sorry, Roberta. I should have looked around more first before posting that here.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:49 am
OK – a friend points out that Don had his shirt off in the morning, providing evidence that Betty was indeed the Midnight Rider.
Evidently I took the bait …
October 6th, 2008 at 6:57 am
It's telling that Betty is all confrontational with Helen up until Helen admits that she' no longer a good mother. On some level Betty can't deny, even to herself, that she couldn't give a crap about her own kids just now.
I think Don & Betty really had sex. It's pretty common to have sex for all kinds of reasons, even if you're estranged. Betty needed comfort and she took it where she could get it. There was real hurt on Don's face when she blew him off at the end. He thought the sex "meant something" and she's saying it didn't. Turn about is fair play, Don.
October 6th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Roberta – jinx!
October 6th, 2008 at 7:03 am
I think that Pete mentioned the flight to California in the context of his father’s disasterous flight in order to get Peggy to feel sorry for him, and comfort him, i.e. sleep with him. Peggy didn’t fall for it – good girl
I loved her response – it was the most coldly comforting thing I've ever heard "it's statistically very unlikely for that to happen to two members of the same family." There is no way in hell that Peggy is going to fall for Pete. She made that mistake last year, and look how it turned out. I also thought it was telling that she ended their conversation when he turned the to adoption question. I still think it is an open issue as to how much Peggy has actually processed her pregnancy and childbirth. I am getting more convinced that the small child at Anita's is her kid, not Peggy's and that Peggy's was adopted away. I think Peggy took Don's advice to heart and simply pretended to get better. I don't think she really understands what happened to her and we see that in her responses – stone cold silent at the priest's "For the little one" comment (he clearly thinks the kid is hers), the crying in the bathtub, the abrupt ending to her conversation with Pete. She is still running from the truth and, like Don, for now it is working.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Perhaps the point of the dreamlike encounter is that DON isn't sure whether it actually happened or not. He's wondering whether he dreamed it – and of course he won't ask, because just voicing the question would make him vulnerable, and Don isn't going to go that far.
As for Paul, maybe he started seeing Sheila to be "different", but he's been with her for a couple of years now. It's just possible that he's not as superficial as some viewers assumed. Maybe he originally volunteered for the Freedom Ride to stay in Sheila's good graces, and maybe he was genuinely relieved to have a sudden excuse not to go; but he's on the bus now, and that took courage. (I'm one of those who think Paul's inane chatter is prompted largely by nervousness.)
Sometimes our initial motivation for doing the right thing isn't always 100% pure, but I do think Paul *is* doing the right thing, so he deserves some respect for that. And the whole voter-registration experience is certainly going to be a huge eye-opener for him.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:12 am
I loved her response – it was the most coldly comforting thing I’ve ever heard “it’s statistically very unlikely for that to happen to two members of the same family.â€
It was such a Pete Campbell-style response, it actually made me laugh. I thought Peggy said it precisely because it was exactly the kind of clinical little factoid that Pete would tell himself to keep his fears at bay.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Sally, welcome.
Victoria, I love you.
Uncle Jeff, this is fruition for Joan and Paul. Sometimes your most interesting, insightful relationships are with an ex. At least in MY life.
It wasn't a dream. No more speculation. I've decided.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:22 am
Great comments everyone! So helpful in understanding the nuances that I don't catch.
I don't know if Paul is as pretentious as he seems, maybe he's just trying too hard to be modern and sincere? Maybe I'm just being too naive, I did get rated as Doris Day on that test posted on the front page.
I'm totally looking forward to next week at the convention, I hope that they show all the space geeks in skinny black ties, etc. My dad worked for Aerojet General (one of the tech companies Pete listed) at that same time in CA, we had just moved there and it was a very exciting time. The Telstar touch was fantastic, it really was the forward looking song and achievement of the moment then.
So glad for this great blog!
October 6th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Does anyone else think that Pete will eventually find out that Peggy had his child (and who is being raised by her sister, of course)? In this ep, the disdain Pete and his mother have about adoption is leading me to the conclusion that once Pete finds out there's a son out there with his precious upper-crust blood, he will want to adopt that kid rather than some unknown (perhaps low-class) child. This has probably been brought up before, but the theme of inheritance in this episode really brought it home to me.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:30 am
I haven't read *all* the posts here, so maybe this was already brought up, but did anyone notice …
In the scene in the bedroom at Betty's dad's house, Don was sleeping on the floor with the pink chenille bedspread. Then in the morning, the bedspread was back on the bed, and he had a different blanket.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Great point Femme1! I was wondering myself as it unfolded, if TPTB are setting us up for either that, or that they will adopt it by accident and later find out…which would be too weird and obvious tho.
October 6th, 2008 at 7:35 am
"She is still running from the truth and, like Don, for now it is working."
Don's "pretend it never happened" philosophy works fine in the short run but develops problems over time. Leaving his old life was probably the right thing to do. His "real" background was pretty nasty. (Even more than we've been told, perhaps. What's the chronology of his father's accidental death, the conception of Adam & the new "Uncle" in his life? Don looked like his dark father; Adam didn't.) And Don Draper didn't need his identify any more–although the mysterious blonde might supply some interesting details.
But now he needs to connect with Betty on a deeper level. He can't just say "oops, sorry, won't screw around again"–even if she thinks that's what she wants. He needs to tell her the whole truth. We've discoverd that her family was pretty dysfunctional too, although in a more polite way. Her father's comment about Don's lack of "people" sounds like something the old guy had been thinking all along; he just kept his mouth shut until his brain started shorting out. If Don & Betty both put their cards on the table, they might still be able to work things out.
Don's advice probably helped Peggy get out of the hospital before the docs decided to try electroshock–since those drugs weren't working. But she's healed, physically. Her career is going well. And her family ain't so bad–compared to Betty's & Pete's.
Let's hope Peggy is able to deal with her past., even though her way may not be Father Gill's way. Pete may find it a jolt to realize he's already a father–with his son being raised by other people (we think). But he may feel better about adopting, to make Trudy happy. If it offends his harridan mother–bonus points!
October 6th, 2008 at 7:41 am
Yes, that was weird Wisefish.
And I was surprised by how Betty said Don had to leave after all that, until I remembered how she said to her friend that you can turn "it" on and off like a switch.
Good points about forgetting the past, Bridget. Denial and "stuffing it" (emotions, that is) always seems to come back to mess you up eventually.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:24 am
As we near the end of the season, big happenings are clearly afoot.
And Don's decision to go to California will have major repercussions.
The Aerospace industry of the early 1960s is heavily populated with ex-Millitary, as is most of southern California.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the "used car scene" in next week's "Previously On" teaser, with Don being "outed" on some level during this trip.
Someone at this convention is going to be introduced to Don Draper, and know it's not really him.
I also think we need to consider that Don is getting on the plane to California and not planning to come back.
LA was Don's chosen destination when he wanted to flee his past and run away with Rachel.
But I believe he will find LA harder to "disappear into" than NYC.
Just my thoughts looking forward.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:35 am
"I very much enjoyed the scenes with Paul and Shelia and the look on his face when Joan told him that he was not going to California but that Don was going in his place."
Why is Joan so hellbent upon making Paul feel miserable? They haven't dated since some time period before the series premiere (March 1960). Why did she bother to point out Paul's pretensiousness in "Flight 1"? Why did his romance with Sheila bring out this side in her? And why did she get a big thrill in telling Paul that he was not going to California?
October 6th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Joan is angry. She has been angry all season, and it's getting worse, what with the being a non-entity when Harry had a position to fill, and with Roger leaving his wife for a 'younger model'.
Whatever the history is with Paul, (and sure, you could say that she 'owed him one' for the driver's license), this really isn't about Paul. Joan is projecting, because Paul does visibly squirm when she fucks around with him. At least she gets a reaction from him.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:55 am
A major theme of this episode was denial and pretense. Pete and his brother pretend to witchy mom that she's still worth a fortune until she pushes Pete's buttons. Betty and Don pretend they're still the perfect couple. Betty and Glenn play pretend house, if for a couple of hours. (how creepy was that?) She even finds him in a pretend house. (Welcome to the dollhouse, Glenn…) Poseur Paul pretends to Sheila that he cares more about being a freedom rider than going to LA on a perceived boondoggle.
Notably, though, there were some moments of non-pretense: I thought Don had some sort of breakthrough when he told Betty he wanted to stay with her because she needed him. Betty told Helen straight-up that she needed to pay more attention to Glenn. And Peggy, of course, was the ultimate truth-teller. "it's not easy for anyone, Pete."
I think Don is definitely returning from L.A.
I did like how Joan and Don gave Roger the deep freeze when he came in to pal around and they were talking serious business. Roger is looking weaker – no longer the silver fox/master of the universe of SC, but rather like an ineffectual has-been.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:07 am
"I did like how Joan and Don gave Roger the deep freeze when he came in to pal around and they were talking serious business. Roger is looking weaker – no longer the silver fox/master of the universe of SC, but rather like an ineffectual has-been."
I wonder if this is all going to blow up in the next episode.
"Joan is angry. She has been angry all season, and it’s getting worse, what with the being a non-entity when Harry had a position to fill, and with Roger leaving his wife for a ‘younger model’.'
Does her anger goes back to "Flight 1", when she was being catty at Sheila for dating Paul?
Sometimes I wonder if Joan is possessive about the men in her life. She reacts to Paul's romance with Sheila and to Roger's affair with Jane.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:16 am
When I firstt saw Paul on the bus with the civil rights workers, I began a mental countdown until an explosion/rock thrown the window/gunshot. I was sure something awful was going to happen, but I guess it will wait until next week. I am sure that something awful is going to happen to Paul.
When I first saw Betty approach the playhouse I thought Don was going to be inside, even though I knew it was out of character. I was surprised to Glen, and it was so creepy when Glen appeared to be wearing one of Don's shirts. Glen seems much more comfortable with adults than people his own age.
I can't wait to see the California adventure next week. I'm sure Don is going to catch Pete jumping up and down on the bed at some point.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:24 am
There’s a few comments about it way upthread, but I’m going with the theory that the childhood bedroom sex was indeed Don’s dream. No floor nookie. NO FLOOR NOOKIE!
October 6th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Glenn really disturbs me. I hope he has served his purpose as a plot device (which I see as allowing Betty to wake up from her infantilized state) and just goes away now. There are already so many meaty parts to the show's plot, and adding more of the creepy man-child would just be too much.
Pete jumping up and down on the bed- LOL! Did you see that perfect touch in the ending scene on the plane – where he's wearing the face mask. Too funny.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Just my two cents (worth more in 1962!):
Joan getting to sink Paul’s West Coast-bound ship is her delicious payback for his posting her driver’s license photocopy (from the new Xerox machine) on the bulletin board in episode 2. If you get to rewatch last night’s episode, notice the little look from Joan at Paul and Sheila in the front of the office.
Of all the relationships in this show, Joan and Paul is the one I would most like to see to fruition. She sees through his pretentiousness, and he gets under her skin in ways not even Roger did.
It hit me again last night that there are no really standard “likable” characters in this show. It has more nuance and shades of grey, which I appreciate. I could do with no more visits from Glenn “Norman Bates is my role model” Bishop, though. Last season it was weird; last night it was really creepy (especially after Betty’s dad and his grabby hands!).
October 6th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Yeah I don’t think it was a dream. It was filmed a little dreamlike, I think to throw us off, and also to suggest the insular nature of the moment. But it happened.
In FTWTY, when Betty made her entrance into the hotel (coming down the stairs), that also had a strong dream quality to it. But it was real.
I have no problem with what she did (seducing him), even though it definitely messed with Don’s head. And I don’t mean that I’m glad she messed with his head–I’m not into the revenge angle. But she is starting to take control; taking what she wants without buying into the whole package. Don went to her father’s because he felt that Betty needed him (and indeed he was quite appropriately protective when the groping occurred); Betty brought Don so eyebrows wouldn’t raise.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I agree with 194 – It wasn’t a dream, although initially I thought that as well.
RE: Paul -I don’t care what his motivations are initially – he’s on the damn bus and there is no way that won’t change him. Sometimes we change for reasons we don’t expect or maybe weren’t even that noble to begin with but we change nonetheless and that is what moves us forward. I’m rooting for him and Sheila.
October 6th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Glenn really disturbs me. I hope he has served his purpose as a plot device (which I see as allowing Betty to wake up from her infantilized state) and just goes away now.
I wonder what will it take to wake the other characters from their infantilized states.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:31 am
This episode bothered me more than some of the others. I think something happened to Betty, and it had to do with the three males: her father, her husband, and creepy, lost little Glen.
Who is actually more of a man than he has any right to be. I started laughing despite myself when Betty made Sally take Glen upstairs to play with the train set.
"You can use the control," Sally said helpfully.
The confusion on Glen's face: priceless. "But I'm 35!" I imagined him saying.
Yes — now I believe that things went on on Betty's childhood home that were unwholesome. She dislikes seeing things of her mother's go to other people because her mother was her reassurance, her promise, the one she was raised to be like: in good and not-so-good ways. I hated seeing Gene hit on Betty. What I hated even more was my own lack of surprise at this.
And Gene himself: I hate that guy. He went off on Don for no other reason than being the man in his little girl(friend)'s life. Disgusting.
This repeated theme of who you belong to, what you can prove of your lineage, and whatever this crap said to the dying old generation that still controlled everything in this era: Goodbye. Good riddance.
No viewer was happier to see Old Lady Campbell hear the truth from Pete than I was. You and your ideas have run out of the money that fed them, old lady. How's that feel? Yeah. Keep signing the worthless paper. Have a nice day, now.
I was pleased to see Betty regain some adult equanimity this week: calling Helen, speaking to her levelly about Glen (wihout descending to the personal — stuff about Helen's "boyfriends" or Glen's extended time alone that she could have mentioned), and being honest about herself and Don for the first time. But I was aware of the personal journey that had gotten Betty to that point. And I still felt her lack of control.
Betty is so far from being "in charge", herself. She is no Helen. And she knows, somewhere inside, that she does need Don. She just has no idea who he is.
How terrifying that must be for her.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Victoria, that Ibsen reference, whoa, great thinking! I really like that analogy, Betty as Nora – particularly since the play was very critical of 19th century marriage conventions. Nora was considered by her husband to be childish – remember the scene from Red in the Face where Don said he felt like he was living with a child – but Nora is also complicit in that role – she remains playing the role of flaky, child-like wife even though she was secretly working jobs to keep the family together.
She also realizes at a point in the play that her marriage is not on solid ground, that her husband is not the man she thought he was – and she realizes that she must finally fulfill her own needs.
Without stretching the analogy too far, there are lots of similarities.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:42 am
I predict that Paul and Sheila will run into James Meredith on their trip to Mississippi. Meredith was the first black student admitted to the University of Mississippi (affectionately known as Ole Miss), amidst much protest. He entered the university in, you guessed it, fall 1962.
October 6th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Jeez, I hope that Tshirt Glen was wearing wasn't the one that Don went to sleep in at Betty's dad's house then woke up without (after the dream-like floor sex sequence). Remember they came in together with suitcases and she said she had to do laundry so told Don not to take them upstairs. That tshirt didn't look fresh…like it had been folded in a drawer, it looked worn. How long has Betty's mother been dead? She commented when she was in that room with the portrait…..there were probably lots of clues in last night's ep…Betty sure has some arrested developement. Seems like she tired to be a grown up but fails at every turn. She's an orphan, Don's an orphan, Pete may adopt, Peggy gave away her child. Those closets were just full to the brim back in the early 60's. Loved that the brother cam in through that window just like in the Philadelpia story…maybe I am confused. Did Frank Sinatra come through a window like that or was that Cary Grant…I have seen that before in connection with that old Phily $.
October 6th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
"Betty sure has some arrested developement. Seems like she tired to be a grown up but fails at every turn. She’s an orphan, Don’s an orphan, Pete may adopt, Peggy gave away her child. "
If one looks at all of the major characters, most of them seemed to be suffering from some kind of arrested development. If Betty has arrested development, look at whom she is married to. Don, in his own way, is just as immature.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Wow. So much to say and so many good points already made.
To weigh in on the controversial topics:
* I don't think Betty was molested, and I explained why over in that specific discussion.
* I do think Betty jumped Don in the middle of the night. She was lost, he was familiar and comforting, not to mention willing. Was it mean to blow him off in the light of day? Maybe a little, but I think she's entitled to be a bit selfish where he's concerned.
* Unlike many of you, I don't find Glen Bishop creepy. Sad and confused, certainly, and more than a little lonely, but not creepy. His affection for Betty comes from the fact that she doesn't treat him as being weird (in a bad way). She just sees him as sensitive (further evidenced by his apparent vegetarianism) and kind of mature for his age due to his parents' divorce. The two of them feel a connection to each other because they're not really connected to the people who are supposed to love them the most (i.e. Don and Helen, respectively). Mostly I pity Glen in his loneliness. And I find it unfortunate that our society has become a place where any relationship between an adult and a child not of their loins is automatically suspect. I had a great friendship with one of my mother's friends, and I'm just fine, thank you.
* Joan was horrible for dropping the bomb on Paul in the middle of the party. She's just lashing out at any convenient target these days, and I have to wonder if anyone is going to call her on it.
* Pete broke the financial news to his mother in completely the wrong way, but I was cheering him on the whole time. I'm really starting to understand where all of his insecurities and hurtful behavior patterns came from. For his sake, I hope he can get over some of them and come around on the adoption issue. I think Trudy would make a good mom.
* I think Don is starting to become more self-aware, at least as far as his emotions are concerned. He's starting to see exactly how important his family is to him, after spending years all but ignoring them. The look on his face when Betty kicked him out — again — was so devastated. I'm glad that he's spending more one-on-one time with Sally and Bobby, but what in the world are he and Betty telling them to explain his absence from the house?
My two cents. There may be another donation later.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
One of my favorite moments from last night: Glen Bishop saying to Betty, "I don't like ham. Or any other meat really."
It was just that, "I don't like ham" (or was it 'Hamm'?) alluded so nicely to the talk Don had with little Bobby, a few weeks ago.
Nobody likes what Archibald Whitman liked. Nobody.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
ANd don't forget from last season, Betty to Don, when she is taking the modeling job:
"There will still be ham."
October 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Pete is thinking of adopting but worried about the child not being family. Peggy has a baby whose father is Pete. Will Pete contive to adopt and not let Trudy know of the baby's true blood line ?
October 6th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
I was cheering when Betty broke a little and said to Helen, "Don's not living here" and then they had a little bonding talk in the kitchen. That's what I thought about Helen all along, that she and Betty could be good friends in an alternate universe, because they are both smart and angry, and Helen has a habit of saying uncomfortable things out loud, which Betty is just itching for at this point in her life. She's had enough of being repressed and perfect and living a lie; witness, as others have pointed out, her relief at Viola voicing the truth about her father rather than a smiling lie.
I though the scene between Helen and Betty was really revealing and rang true to me as a woman with many women friends. And I was so excited to see Betty break her perfect facade a little. Someone on this site pointed out that when talking to female friends Betty inevitably responded to their complaints about their husbands with some perfect little anecdote about Don. I went back and watched, and they were so right. She was still trying to pretend and to defend (I made a rhyme!). And this season she's so lost and confused she can't maintain her facade a little. Good on you, Betty. There is always a period of confusion and despair before you make great breakthroughs in your life, and I feel Betty is about to make one.
And I vote for Betty and Don staying together. Ironically, she's as ballsy and intelligent as any of the women he cheated on her with…I hope he wises up and sees sense and does not run off to California.
October 6th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
I was just glad to see Don get off with someone who happens to be his wife for once. Maybe now he'll be able to keep it in his pants longer.
October 6th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
PS but if Don cheating will result in more footage of Jon Hamm shirtless, I will have to vote that way. I haven't seen too many great takes on marital passion on TV…it sure would make MM different if they managed to show people staying together and having some heat in their relationship. I was always blown away by the Sopranos scene where Carmela and Tony have sex on the fur coat he bought for her…it made me think how seldom on TV or in the movies you see people having sex who have real intimacy between them. It was a very powerful and memorable scene for me.
October 6th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I love reading these posts the day after the show…it's the only good thing about a Monday!!
My observations:
Paul irritates me. I still think he's a poser…. It will be interesting to see how the trip to Mississippi plays out.
Glenn is so creepy, I can't take it! I hated the chips crunching (I kept wondering if that was on purpose, to remind us of Utz and Jimmy Barrett?) The scene between Betty & Glenn on the couch was so uncomfortable, it really is a testiment to how great these actors are.
I think Don is finally realizing that there is a real possibility that Betty might kick him out for good. He underestimates her strength! I love the new and improved Betty!
October 6th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
#239: I love reading these posts the day after the show…it’s the only good thing about a Monday!!
#237: I was just glad to see Don get off with someone who happens to be his wife for once.
Me too!
I loved the tenderness of the love scene with Don and Betty. I also loved his protectiveness when Gene lost his mind and his "grip."
For some reason members of my family kept calling me while I was watching the episode for the first 2 times. I was finally able to see it the third time at 10 (I'm a west coaster, too). I want to see it again to catch all that I missed.
Nice look at growing up and family's emotional legacies.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am
After this episode, I have lots of hope for Betty. She's definitely progressing. I think Don has seen the smart, strategic-thinking side of her too, but without really "seeing" it. For example, the fact that she's a card shark…we were reminded of it again.
I wonder without all the family baggage, Betty's "inheritance," how would she have turned out? More like Midge? More like Rachel?
October 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
In addition to Don escaping from everything by replacing Paul on the trip to L.A., I wonder if he is escaping TO something or someone.
Was it ever established who he mailed "Meditations in an Emergency†to in the season opening? “Made me think of you."…Someone we have yet to be introduced to? Did Midge move to the west coast?
October 7th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Deb and I were JUST talking about that bit of unfinished business!
October 7th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Re #241- I don't see Betty as a Midge or Rachel, but maybe she would have continued her modeling career and perhaps gone into acting like a Suzy Parker type. Or maybe end up running a fashion magazine. I don't think she's particularly "deep" from what we've seen, but she could have pursued what she was good at and enjoyed it.
October 8th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I watched the episode again last night in HD (it's that much better in HD!) and I thought the same thing about Don…that he might be escaping to LA not just to get away from it all, but perhaps to see someone. I also had this weird feeling that maybe he was leaving and not coming back. He entertained that thought last season when he propositioned Rachel to go away w/ him. I first thought of Midge…but her storyline seems done. Maybe Don has a whole slew of west coast ladies!
October 10th, 2008 at 12:23 am
*Joan truly is a vindictive bitch. She got revenge against Paul for something she had set in motion in “Flight 1â€.
*I see that Peggy and Pete still have the hots for each other.
*I less convinced than ever that Gene Hofstadt had molested Betty in the past. I think he had honestly mistaken her for his late wife. He had made the same mistake earlier. And later, Betty made a lament to Viola that Gene seemed unable to fully recognize her anymore.
*For those who are worried that Paul is using Sheila, I think she has his number. But I think she likes him, all the same.
*It’s interesting that both Pete’s father and mother seemed to dislike him. Yet, both are a lot more unpleasant than him.
*It's interesting that Don demands that Betty tells me what she wants. Yet, he must know the answer to that question. Or has he conveniently erased this from his mind?
October 10th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Betty is acting like Don! She is taking from men and then turning them away. She sleeps with Don…then sends him away. She takes in Glenn and leads him on…..then sends him away. She lead the horse guy to lunch….then stood him up. She is taking her anger out on men the way she sees men as treating women. Using them. getting their hopes up and then letting them down. Just as Don, Daddy and who knows who else have done to her.
October 10th, 2008 at 4:26 am
Thoughts about Don leaving for California….Revenge for Betty. She sent him "away", so away he goes. She will be frantic when she finds out he left and doesn't know when he will return.
October 10th, 2008 at 4:26 am
This is the beginning of a power game between Don and Betty.
October 10th, 2008 at 5:01 am
Betty is acting like Don! She is taking from men and then turning them away. She sleeps with Don…then sends him away.
I don't see this as an accurate description of Don's relationships with women. He's certainly got his gaps (and more so in his marriage), put I don't think he just takes and then sends them away.
But definitely some interesting thoughts about Betty.
October 10th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Hi all,
Question about Gloria.
Betty refers to her as a vulture…hovering for her Dad at (or near) her mother's funeral.
Has it ever been shown, or intimated, that Gloria was Gene's mistress, perhaps long-standing…prior to Betty's Mom's death?
I had a dear friend in Jr. High who knew (from discovering a secret box, no less) that her Dad had a mistress. She was terrified that her mother would find out and never told. He was a much older man, rarely at home– and died when we were in High School.
Come to find out — her mother KNEW about this other woman. It was simply not spoken of. (so true to the times…early 70's)
Just curious if Betty's hatred of Gloria began BEFORE her mother's passing.
Love the blog!
October 10th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
There hasn't been any direct reference that Gloria was Gene's mistress.
But as we know from Betty's search of Don's desk that yielded papers upon which Don had written various ideas for advertising slogans, sometimes something that doesn't look like a confirmation of involvement with an other actually is. Most of those ideas for advertising slogans were written while Don was with an other woman with whom he was having sexual relations.
October 11th, 2008 at 6:04 am
It's all conjecture because, as John says, it's never been directly addressed. But his comment makes me think… Betty has a husband who has an unspoken-of past (Who's in there?) and who spends countless nights away and who she finally does suspect of cheating (Francine/phone bill) and it takes her until now to dig through his pockets? Maybe she learned young you don't go into those secret boxes.
I had a friend who, upon his death, found out that her father was gay. From a box.
October 11th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
** Did Betty change her hair for her washed up “mini-Don�**
I just noticed that and came here to see if anyone else had commented. Good catch, MacheteBette!