Sep 282008
Good evening, everyone! If you’re new, an extra welcome. Take your time and poke around our site. If you’ve been here all along but have never joined the conversation, delurk; we’d love to hear from you.
We’re up to the 9th episode, do you believe it? Show starts at 10:00, theater doors open at 7:00. Enjoy; this promises to be a good one!
Kisses–
326 Responses to “Open Thread: Six Month Leave”
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Still away from home, still must wait for iTunes.
Weep for me.
Thought I'd delurk and let you know what a great site this is. Looking forward to tonight!!
Ms. Darkly, I shed a little tear.
Lady, thanks for saying hi!
I'm watching Desperate Housewives right now and I have my
DVR set for Brothers and Sisters since I like that show, too. Sheesh! I'm a TVaholic.
I'm looking forward to Mad Men's episode tonight!! I'll be in during the commercials to chat.
As always I won't get to watch til everyone else is asleep…
Stupid PST
Here I am – sick, though, so I'll be rocking the Shirley Temples with Noah and Retrogirl tonight…
@Jess: Please don't let that keep you from posting – I for one always look forward to new insightful comments on the thread when I wake up!
Welcome, LOTH!
Evening, friends. It's been a long two weeks!
me, my hubby and ice cream are waiting!
Some half-naked Don for Kay!
Ah, Marilyn. Here we go.
"Some people just hide in plain sight."
hmmm
Hola Basketcases!
Don's got great legs!
Only one more year until "Mother's little helper" hits market, Betty, just hold on…
Yeah, Kay! Hullo. Knew you would like that scene lol
lol @ Joy.
Good time as any to clean out the fridge…
Peyton List, the actress playing Jane, is too cute!
Katherine Anne Porter, nice! Ship of Fools, what a book – must think about what Betty reading that means…
Gross!!!!!
Freddie is slipping out of the "functioning" category.
Yikes, Freddy!! Oh this doesn't look good.
I wanna punch the shit outta Pete!
Betty's friend seems like a real busybody! Yuck!
Housedress, smokes in the pockets? Betty, snap out of it before you turn into my grandmother.
Honestly, though, January is rocking another episode.
Whatever happened to Francine?
Marilyn was a Joan.
Why are all these people upset MM died? She wasn't the Prez or anything….I don't get it!
Joan on "losing someone close to you." Sorta like her distaste for hospitals. Something lurking.
I think there's a hint of MM = Princess Di going on here.
MM= Di? Is Elton John making a guest appearance?
Don just get you a new powerful brunette! To hell with You-Know-Who!
LOL @ Laura('s grandmother). And seconded on JJ's performances – has she been growing into the role over the season, or were her early scripts just that weak? I never would have anticipated such chops from her…
I knew that Joan would be devastated by Marilyn's death.
Definitely something lurking with Joan, Karl, good call.
jess asks:
Goodbye, Norma Jean.
I was 3 when Elvis died! Did people lose their shit like that then too?
I'm LOVING how angry Betty's towards Don.
It's interesting that the ad men from Sterling, don't seem to get why everyone's so heartbroken over Marilyn Monroe's death. They don't seem to see that she (in her own unique way) represented
Some half-naked Don for Kay!
I thought the exact same thing.
I am not touching this computer except during commercials.
Marilyn was a screen goddess and very popular…still is for that matter. I guess that's why the women were so upset about her death.
I hope Betty snaps out of this soon. Even though Don has done what she accused him of, I find myself feeling sorry for him.
I thought we would see what went on with Peggy, Pete, and Sal with the Samsonite clients. I guess we will find out what happened later in the episode.
Well Kay, compare with say…someone today who is famous and loved. Oprah? Died by suicide tonight. I am not saying they are alike. But the times, Marilyn was a symbol.
She is rich, successful. Suicide doesn't fit unto our schema of her life. It would be a little traumatic.
I felt sad for Heath Ledger, even if it wasn't suicide. It was tragic.
@Karl – That hospital comment of Joan's has been bugging me for the past year, and I'm *still* waiting for them to reveal the secret behind it…
Kay,
People were pretty wacky when Elvis died. You can find coverage of it on YouTube.
Kay, yes, people were probably even more devastated when Elvis died. I remember that day very clearly.
One thing I've observed about JJ in general is that, if the writing's good, she really rises to the occasion. If the writing is bad, she's, well, not so great.
But I think also that she's really embraced and evolved in the role of Betty. There's a certain melancholy about her (despite that great smile that we don't see much on MM) that fits the role really well.
Joy, I always thought the hospital thing was similar to the ones about the doctor she recommended to Peggy. I assume she had an abortion at some point.
@Elle: Careful what yo say about…You-Know-Who! LOL!
So, how's young James Spader lookin'?
Betty gonna get a little eye for an eye?
What in the hell is Betty doing?
Dude looks too much like Judge Reinhold to be hot! Sorry fans of Judge!
You go Don!
"It's just a man's name, right?" Don looking in that mirror still.
Don is da MAN! That's the Don I know, ripping young bucks a new one over corny bullshit!
You go Don. I'm so glad that Peggy and Don are trying to stick up for Freddy.
Nicely done, Don.
OMG an advert for the film of Revolutionary Road!!!!!! Very appropos.
Really? I'm 50/50 on an abortion – I wouldn't be surprised if it occurred in her past, but I'm not convinced that's what's responsible for her comments. I wonder if her mother became sick and died when she was young – lacking maternal guidance, a female touchstone, would explain how Joan has had to make herself into her "own woman" according to a very deliberate framework.
I used no nicknames. I just wonder what Betty is doing. It is like she is setting up her friend to be embarrassed.
I so want to see this movie. Loves me some Leo and Kate.
It is gonna be like a MadMen.
Was wondering when we'd see Revolution Rd ads — right of the period, and Slattery is in it.
@ Kay #44
Marilyn was a star that people felt emotionally connected to, not only from her movies, but because of her private/public life. And it wasn't like now, where the whole tabloid/celebrity culture has us immersed in, and, so, insensitive to, all of that.
I remember being horribly shaken that way when John Lennon was killed.
Ellelque, I was wondering what Betty is up to, also. She already has that lunch date set with her friend and makes it sound like she just made it up while talking to the guy. Sorry, can't remember either person's name.
I'm glad Don is showing compassion for Freddy. I don't think those guys were acting like teenage girls….more like 14 year old boys laughing at bathroom humor.
Brilliant novel. I keep 'threatening' to the Lipps to write an essay comparing April Wheeler (the main female protagonist in RR) and Betty Draper…one of these days.
Hey, at least they are giving him a chance to rehab. That is pretty decent.
6 months full salary? I'd *become* an alcoholic just to take advantage of that offer…
@Elle: I don't even say You-Know-Who's name because I'm afraid I might do a Pete Campbell and blurt out something inappropriate! Ha!
Sterling jokes, and Don laughs.
Just a suggestion of a movie that reminded me of Mad Men, The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit with Gregory Peck.
I was shaken about Princess Diana, and John Kennedy Jr. It just seemed so wrong.
So good to see Don just chill with the fellas! About time we see that!
"Bonnie Prince Sterling." LOL
Tilden Katz!
Duck is such a hypocrit. Pete such an opportunist. They deserve each other.
Thanks Mel, Elle, et al for the explanations….
I knew it was Mob related! and gambling. Said so last week!
Yep, They ratted out Pete to Rumsen. Peggy is gonna rip Pete a new one.
They, the Mad Men writers, shouldn't "tempt" me with Don bringing up Rachel in an incongruous way! *Boo hoo*
What was it with the woman starring at Don?
"You want to be right or you want to be married?" X-D
Yes!!!!!
"You wanna be right, or you wanna be married?"
WHOA man in the grey flannel suit! Nice call, LittleB!
Altercation! And 'sage' advice from Sterling…
Loads in that scene.
I loves me some gangsta Don! Unfunny Jimmy deserved that!!!!
That was Oscar material man. Yes!!! I would only enjoy that more had it been the Duck or Pete.
Joy,
Jinx — I owe you a Coke.
Does Don have a feather in his cap? Literally?
I don't like the way Rumsen said that good-bye. Very ominous.
I just want Don to be slutty! Is that too much to ask in a fake TV character?!
Does anyone really care about Freddy, or did this ep make us care about Freddy because we hate Duck and Pete?
Deborah – i totally noticed that!
The Mad Men writers need to cease messing with my head with Menken bags and Tilden!
I miss Rachel's character sooooo damn much!!
Again, can't watch yet, but I've always liked Freddy — and this doesn't sound good.
That look when Peggy walked out of the office!!! You knew where she was headed!
Pete is a total asshole!!!
So do we know Jane is Jewish because she shops at Kline's and Menken's?
Or did she just go to Menken's because they're a customer?
I wish that Peggy slapped the taste out of Pete's mouth.
ugh – let me wipe the slime off my shoulder
And Peggy refuses the handshake, a la the pilot.
Wait a sec…Betty's not showing is she..heheh
I think the Freddy situation was important as a foil for Peggy and Pete, highlighting their contrasts. And I feel badly for Peggy – it's terrible to lose a mentor like that…
Betty's now a pimp for her friends! Weird….
Betty is such a bitch!!!! I am sorry, but that was a horrible thing to do to her friend. She couldn't handle that woman having a good marriage!
WHAT?!??!
OMG!!!
what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy crap, when Laura said "showing" I thought she meant preggers, now I realize she meant "showing up".
This is the problem with reading this and not being able to watch the episode.
NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see it differently – though I'm not sure yet – Sara Beth said she was bored, so Betty set it up with whats-his-face, facilitated their affair. I'm not sure I would call it bitchy. I'm not sure yet what Betty's motivation is yet – I suppose it could be the 'misery loves company' thing, she wants to screw up Sara Beth's marriage, but I don't know, I'm not entirely convinced that it's all that's going on here.
WHOA! WHAT!! is Sterling. DOING!!!
… *Which* secretary, I ask…?
That was just plain wacky.
Now that was some action. Joan is gonna be pissed. Oh, nice they have Marilyn singing.
Shiela's back!
Wanna be right or wanna be married….Ha! The Silver Fox chose to be right!?
Roger is leaving his wife for Don's secretary.
which secretary? – THE NEW GIRL
Sorry for missing the word, Jess! I was typing too quickly!
Poor Don, poor luck in secretaries.
that was just tooo much for my poor pregnant belly….i swear even the baby reacted to all that action..hahahaha
God! Don in white boxers. Scrumptious.
Does Jane know he's leaving his wife?
I mean I like both characters, but them together….that age difference weirds me out.
YES WAY!!!!
I knew that Sterling was going for "a second best" in Jane, since Joan decided to get engaged.
Next week looks off the hook.
MiamiMami, you go into labor over MadMen, you will have to name the baby after one of the characters.
Just not Pete or Duck.
@Elle: Girl I'm gonna light a candle! You spoke ill of You-Know-Who!! I'll pray for your soul! LOL!
Anyway, that was a real nasty thing to do! I keep stating she's not all innocent and sweet! She's a jerk, like all the characters!
or Crab.
Aw, I was hoping he'd run off with Joanie and they'd live richly together with disdain (her) and lust (him)… The New Girl's just so sleazy.
You know, I think continues to be amazed at Peggy's advertising smarts.
Why did Sterling's wife called his secretary "Margaret"?
like i said, too much for me…..the baby kicked so hard we noticed that the laptop moved a bit!
@155 Dimples, Margaret is Roger's daughter.
Dimples, Margaret is Roger's daughter – his wife was indicating she'd be the only contact he'll be having with his family from now on.
Watch it Kay, feel free to myspace me your true thoughts. LOL
I think from next week preview. Betty is gonna tell Papa about Don's infidelity.
I sure hope they approach Peggy;s Baby and pete before the season ending. They will probably have it as a cliff hanger.
@Elle – id have to go with Freddy – after my husband, or too be really really flagrant, since i am cuban – Salvatore….hahahahaha…
Don losing secretaries is like a running gag on Mad Men!
Thank you, Karl and Joy. I'm watching the encore to catch what I missed in the initial airing.
OK, I beat Joy on that one, so we're even.
Fredrico, or girl – Donatella,
No Predro
Okay, everything is falling into place now. Jane was the one who told Roger about Don being seperated from Betty.
When he told her that "it was personal" he really meant it and THAT'S why he wants her "off his desk".
GENIUS.
I love this damn show.
Yes, I would not want Roger's little spy girl sifting through my paperwork.
thats how Roger had an inkling about Don – b.c of Jane……she's so discreet.
we saw this coming with Jane after she pulled that power move on Joan and she told Roger where she lived – i told you guys she had to pay him back, with you know what!
Love the expression of Sal when Freddy's hands him a full glass of booze.
Is Betty Draper going to need to go to Betty Ford?
BF actually just opened a new clinic for Blogging Addiction btw lol
As if Roger would know about Don coming in too early!
This may be my last post on BoK but I must say this! You-Know-Who is no saint! She's manipulative and a nasty piece of work!
I want my man Don in a steamy relationship with some non-manipulative brunette! He deserves someone like that in his bed, er, life!
i thought he wanted her off his desk b.c of the confrontation with Roger's wife – now he broke up someone else's marriage.
he's on a roll
Elle – that is gonna piss Joan off big time…..
Jane is my current desktop wallpaper, but I alternate with Joan. I would have Peggy also, but I would have to move all my icons around.
Jane's as morally warped as Pete! I used to feel sorry for Lil Pete, being born to two of the weirdest people at SC, but now I think the kid actually lucked out with Peggy as his mom – no one would be safe from the demon spawn of Jane and Pete.
Loves me some pissed off, righteous Kay.
I do think that Betty's actions with her friend and Arthur are intended to be bad., So I believe Matt would have not wanted us to like her much right now.
I think it was because the friend said that Don was perfect, and that her own husband was so effortless. Betty was jealous.
One almost wondes if Roger is not bedding Jane in part to see if he can rile up Joan. If this blow-up exacerbates things between Joan and her fiancee, you could see Roger & Joan again.
I wish they would have shown Joan's reaction. OMG She is gonna have to deal with Jane as Roger's wife? Joan is gonna end up quitting if something don't happen.
Betty's set-up is "bad," but may be her way of trying to keep the guy away from her and a signal that she's leaning toward staying with Don.
We are really seeing a whole other side of Betty this season.
If you go to the AMC site, be sure to look at photos from tonight's episode. There is a good one of Don punching Jimmy Barrett.
Gotta go. Hope everyone has a great week.
Thinking more about Betty reading Ship of Fools.
The term in general represents a group of people who are on a journey without a pilot, and ignorant of their own direction.
The Porter novel is specifically about a group of passengers on a ship from Mexico to Germany in the 1930s. The place to which they were headed was a powder keg, a dangerous place to be headed (particularly for the Jews on board).
In terms of Mad Men, here we have a group of people who at times do seem unaware of their own direction, or in some ways, who seem to have abdicated their own control over their respective situations. And for many of these characters, they're unaware of the dangers in the places they're headed.
I think I'm stretching a bit here, but I know Weiner does nothing by accident, so thought I would take a stab.
It came out in 1962, so it's a brand new novel when Betty's reading it.
[b]Ellelque[/b] – That's why Jane's the "new girl" in every aspect of this show and the timeframe of the show. Joan's the girl, who's missed her opportunity to having the "life" of Betty, since she didn't get married younger. Betty's the girl, who's discovering that she wants more in her life than just being the "perfect mother and wife". Peggy's the new girl, who's discovering that she has to be better than everyone around her, including the men that have helped her to get where she's at (Freddy, Don and even that weasel Pete).
I love this damn show.
Nope the way she took that phone off the hook. The way she spoke with Arthur. She was doing something hurtful to a trusting friend.
jane and roger make a good match – they are ruthless climbers.
joan is not – but she is honest and that can come across as bitchy depending on the situation…..
Don could sleep with Mona?
I like Jane because she handled Joan, who is currently on my "bad list!"
And Sheila's back! Yes! She's too cute!
"One day, you'll lose someone close to you… it's very painful." Oh yes, I am feeling that she is definitely referring to the loss of someone significant rather than an abortion.
very good insight dimples
Joy – I saw that scene as Roger knowing that he's "lost" Joan and there's nothing that he can do about it. Even if he begged her to take him back, I don't think that Joan wants him anymore.
She's totally done with him.
"jane and roger make a good match – they are ruthless climbers. joan is not – but she is honest"
I think Roger may be strategic in his career (or not, depending on how much you attribute to Sterling Sr.), but he's always been very earnest around Joan. She manages to cut through the BS to bring him down to a manageable level without destroying who he is, which is why I prefer them as a couple. Jane's just going to chew him up…
true….joan tends to humanize him…
Thanks, Miamimami. I see Jane as the "new girl", who's not going to be ashamed about getting and doing what she needs to do, in order to get what she wants in life.
She's going to "do her" regardless if OTHERS think negatively of her and that's something that MOST women of that time didn't do.
Oooh, interesting Dimples – I'll have to rewatch that scene with your interpretation in mind.
and whats with jane buying don shirts?
yes, dimples
jane is a new breed of woman for that time. but then again so peggy. they are going about acheiving their goal in very different ways.
Joan would have taken Roger back in a minute, enaged or not. And he leaves Mona for Jane. What's up with that?
I really love that scene between Betty and Carla.
Freddy had to go to show the coming end to drinking on the job. He "crossed the line" — but everyone else can get right up to the line, for a few more years anyway. Can you imagine an office today like that? "
"As much as I'd like to indulge your Twilight Zone fantasy of being shot into space…"
I can't wait for next week – see you all then!
That guy looks like a cross between young Judge Reinhold and young James Spader.
I love Betty being a "pimp" for her friend and this guy (who doesn't have a job) and is looking for something other than horses to fill his free time.
Jane's last name is Seigel, I think. And that's usually Jewish.
Thewaywewere
Hmm, interesting that you think that Joan would take Roger back, regardless of her engagement or not. I really don't see it that way at all with Joan at this point in the series.
thats cold
I don't like "the future of classic" i like classic….
You know, we enforce very minimal rules here, mostly about language and about basic human decency. I would personally appreciate it very much, and I believe my sister agrees, if people didn't act like we were draconian despots ready to pull a final trigger on anyone at any time.
I might get kicked off of BoK for saying the following….You-Know-Who is NOT some saint! She's manipulative, entitled and malicious as hell!
I will never worship at the altar of Saint Betty of Ossing! I see her for who she is–a jerk!
Laura Leone – I think that everyone sees Don as being "perfect". The only people that don't see that are the women that actually sleep with him.
Midge, Rachel, Bobbi, Betty and all the other women who've "sampled Don's delights" all seem to see the "non-perfect and pulled together" side of him.
I think it would be bothersome to know that everyone thinks that what you have is "perfect" when it really isn't. Especially when you're in desperate need for truth.
This was an outstanding episode! I absolutely enjoyed "Six Month Leave" alot! I have to say that the writing on the show gets even better and better in each episode. I did like how the episode opened with Don and Peggy talking about the Maidenform campaign. Jon Hamm & Elisabeth Moss were fantastic in their scenes together and there is total respect for each other between Don and Peggy.
There were some great moments throughout the episode, such as Freddy's little "accident." I honestly could not help but laugh at that. The look on the faces of Pete, Peggy and Sal were absolutely priceless! I mean that was totally unexpected and then the next moment with him passed out. I knew how bad Freddy felt and I knew how much Peggy liked Freddy and that she did not want him to leave the agency. Still, I was very excited when Peggy got promoted to full copywriter and how she brought her rage to Pete. That was such a great moment between Peggy and Pete.
I could not believe when Don was talking to Roger about the problems he and Betty were having and the effect it had on Roger to ditch Mona like that for another woman, whom I am betting it's Jane because Joan's already engaged. I really enjoyed the scene with Mona blaming Don as the reason for the break-up between her and Roger.
My favorite moment of the entire episode was Don giving Jimmy Barrett what he truly deserved which was a punch to the face. I was cheering for Don the moment it happened. Way to go Don! I do hope things work out between Don and Betty. I could tell how really upset Betty is feeling and I do honestly hope they work things out. I have to say that everyone in the cast did such a fantastic job in tonight's episode and I want to single out all the cast for the great job they did. I am really looking forward to Episode 10. Way to go Mad Men!!
I agree, Dimples – I wasn't condoning what Betty did, just making an observation.
Yes, I can see it being frustrating for Betty to hear from outsiders things about Don that are so obviously 'untruths'.
you know when i saw jimmy i turned to my husband and told him – i hope he punches him in the face – and then i was gratified.
I love that Nina Simone song "Wild as the Wind" that they use for the upcoming Leo and Kate film, Revolutionary Road.
@213, I respectfully request that you re-read #212.
I just have one thing to say:
"Jane, you ignorant slut!""
LOL @ carocat!
OK slightly off topic and I know I'm only catching the replay… But my arm feels like Sterling just hit it too…. They made me get a tetanus shot… Figures I can only feel my two arms but they still have to give me a shot in my damn arm!
In the video on AMC's site, January Jones says that Betty is putting Arthur and Sarah Beth to a test that they both fail. How do they fail? She set it up. I am confused by that statement.
@213, I respectfully request that you re-read #212.
Because seriously, I'm starting to lose my shit. And my future requests may be less than respectful, though I feel strongly that any prior communications from me have in fact, been respectful.
This was an awesome episode. Jess, I've suspected Jane was Jewish from the moment we found out her last name and was convinced of it when she said she shopped at Klien's.
Betty was on the verge of a breakdown. I thought it was interesting that they cut from Don seeing the newspaper headline about Monroe to Betty on the couch. I was fascinated by how upset all of the secretaries were, especially Joan. I'm sure she had someone close to her died, like a parent, which would explain her dislike of hospitals.
I felt sorry for Rumson. Peggy took charge and tried to control the damage. I knew something big was happening when Peggy was invited into Don's office, but I didn't expect her to be promoted. Don sees so much of himself and his ideals in Peggy. I really liked the look on Peggy's face when she was finally treated as an equal at the meeting in the end of the episode.
Britni – Arthur and Sarah Beth have "failed" because they both don't decide to NOT have lunch together without her (regardless of the fact that she unplugged the phone). She knew that they BOTH wanted the opportunity to be alone at some point. She just made it happen.
She's learned how to "set things up" just like Don.
im off to attempt sleeping – it was great chatting and reading your comments….i'll be back tomorrow to read the rest!
I was referring to Jane Siegel.
Dimples: Okay, I guess I can see that, but to me, it is a sign of Betty's immaturity that she would get mad at them for something that she initiated. The lunch was already planned, and she didn't know tat they had the lunch or not because she never showed.
Also, I feel like Betty is really the one that Arthur wants, but he will settle for Sarah Beth, the way that Roger really wants Joan but will have to settle for Jane, while Don really wanted Rachel but settled for Bobbie instead.
carocat, totally great line.
Sarah Beth's diagnosis of "boredom" and Betty's character in general keep making me feel like there will be a Feminine Mystique reference soon.
And with all the subtle references to Rachel, I hope we see her again soon!
Just re-watched the episode: Mona says "he's leaving me for HIS secretary." Which means it's not Jane, since Jane is Don's secretary. I think it's Joan that Roger intends to marry, and it would be just like him to be confident enough to not care if Joan is engaged or not. And Roger was probably sleeping with Jane, which would explain why Jane gets weepy when she hears about it. Great twist, btw. (Also, am a first-time poster and this blog is excellent.)
#231: What references to Rachel?
Britni, Betty's all over the place. She is so angry; has been all season, and doesn't even know it. Now she's neglecting her kids. Thank god she was raised (I'm assuming) that the dads do the corporal thing, or who knows what she'd be doing to them.
That said, her anger is overwriting everything else. There's definitely some skips in her logic. It seems to me she was angry at Sarah Beth for even wanting to want an affair. She was angry at Arthur for being a temptation to her (Betty). She was angry at this affair before it happened. So sure she's angry that they failed her test, even though we all see that's craazy!
Wait! Did I hear the Mad Men's trek to L.A. means they're coming to Pasadena? Ha! How ironic is that since a lot of the show's Ossining scenes are actually filmed there. LOL. It also happens to be where I live. Heh. I think I predicted that his L.A. trip might have something to do with the space race. L.A. in the 60s was about movies/tv/music, and rocket science.
the menken's bag of shirts that jane gets don
jw: re: #233– When Jane buys Don extra shirts, the bag was from Menken's. Also, when Don, Roger, and Freddy go to the underground casino, Don's name was "Tilden Katz," which is the name of Rachel's husband.
jw, as Miamimami says, the Menken's bag. Then Don calling himself Tilden Katz. Then Roger asking Don if he's in love and his response.
jw, welcome. I think Mona slurred the word… it sounded like 'his' but also sounded like 'a'. I think that was deliberate to throw us off, to have us think it was Joan (especially after the scene with Roger and Joan earlier, which was so lovely). But it's Jane he's sleeping with… read upthread about some of the spy conjecture (I'm just getting too sleepy!)
Also, re Rachel, check #116.
#236: Aah. I see. Or maybe it's just another dig since he fouled that relationship up, too?
I honestly don't see Betty as an aggressor here. I think she's wounded and lost and enraged (all at once, as appropriate for someone who feels betrayed and has whatever fragile existence she has crumble) and perhaps "tested" her friend and the guy to see if anyone is ever loyal anymore (her friend to her husband, and the guy to Betty, since he seemed to fancy her, too). She's disappointed that no one called to check on her non-arrival at lunch and realized she eventually wasn't missed there, too. (Don's not calling either.)
Roberta re: 234– She was angry last season, too. She has been for a long time. Remember when her therapist accused her of being angry at her mother last season and she got all defensive? But she was angry at her, for not teaching her what else her life should be about. She got the man and the house, now what?
And now we see that without her husband home, and without her (as she was taught) "reason for being," she doesn't know what to do with herself. Yes, she is depressed and angry with Don, but you can see that without him she doesn't know what to do with herself and her life. Because her mother told her that she needed to be pretty to get a man, that that was her life's purpose.
Now what?
Finally got the Tilden reference. Thanks.
Hello. I'm new and decided to de-lurk, esp. since I'm a huge fan of Don/Rachel and there were quite a few allusions to her, aside from the Menken's bag and her hubby's name.
Roger: Do you fall in love?
Don: That'd be easier. Then I'd know what to do.
Roger: Easier— There's some incredible woman. And someone's going to end up with her and it can't be you.
Don: Why not?
Roger: Because we're married.
I read the "woman" to be Rachel and the "someone" to be Tilden Katz. I hope she returns. Although Jon Hamm was very vague about Rachel in an interview he did right after Season 2 filming wrapped.
I'm guessing Sarah Beth and Arthur failed, because their scene definately had some major flirting. Maybe that's the prelude to an affair that they didn't show and we're just to assume happened.
'Now what' is right. Who knows? She's a wreck.
The way I see it, last season she was living on top of so much anger; it was all sweetness and sunshine and depression (some believe that depression is anger turned inwards). Last season I so badly wanted her to be angry, and I still believe she needs to go through it if she's ever to get to the other side, but what will she destroy in the process?
That poor chair in the last episode… didn't deserve that treatment any more than Duck's dog did.
UE, welcome!
This may well be the last we see of Sarah Beth and Arthur… kind of like Francine and Carlton. I don't know that we'll see them again this season. We saw what we needed to… he's eating instead of cheating. Weiner doesn't always follow through on every thread; it's not necessary. Sarah Beth and Arthur? We don't care how an affair affects their lives. We've seen what we need to see.
hullaballoo that is TOO COOL.
Isn't Roger's secretary Ginger — someone whom Mona chose specifically because she's rather plain and nondescript? Roger ain't running away with her. It's gotta be Jane or Joan — neither of whom is actually Roger's secretary.
Oh! What I forgot to say (239) but totally meant to say was, why are we assuming Roger gave Mona accurate information anyway? He knows she confronts; maybe he protects his 'love'.
Roger knows Joan is too hard to get, especially now (i.e. scene in his office with Joan) so he's going for second best: Jane
Some people thought Jane was trying to put the moves on Don earlier in the episode but you can tell she was just trying to gather information to share with Roger. So Roger asked him about his marital problems at the bar. Roger finally got the courage to end it with Mona. Don said to "move forward."
I'd rather Roger be with Joan though.
See, I don't think the Roger and Mona thing is completely over. I can see YodaBert stepping in for damage control. Mona is not Betty. She ain't gonna just accept this, and walk off alone into the distance. There will be problems for Sterling Cooper as a result of this.
Somebody might have said this already (and if so I apologize)…
Don is becoming the male Murphy Brown of secretaries!
I saw the Betty thing coming as soon as she saw Arthur checking out some other horse riding chick (was that SB, looked like her but a bit younger).
SB has mentioned many times that she dreams about and thinks about Arthur. She come over and starts talking about Arthur once again and Betty mentions "It's a switch you can turn on and off." Betty tested to see if SB could turn off the switch and be the faithful wife that her husband deserves (that she Betty is "my people are Nordic") and obviously SB couldn't since it seems she didn't leave the lunch after Bets is a no show. Betty also may see through Arthur's game of picking up women who are "so profoundly sad" or "bored"(was that SB he was talking to by the car?) I think Betty just wanted her to have the affair and be done with it, or learn something from the lunch that shows her she needs to stay away from Arthur.
Sally breaks me to pieces in every scene. She is so young and precious and things are coming so undone.
Loved Betty and Carla's scenes. I would love to see some sort of friendship develop there.
OMG. Roger/Jane. Did not see that one coming at all. Roger leaves his marriage, which makes me think Don is going stick with his.
Maybe I'm spinning a bit, but it was ominous in the episode which talks about the death of MM to see Betty face down on the sofa, hand to one side, half empty glass of wine on the table…weren't there 'death scene' pics of Monroe like that?
"I loves me some gangsta Don! Unfunny Jimmy deserved that!!!!"
Don is a hypocrite and I don’t think that Jimmy deserved that punch. So what if he had told Betty about the Don/Bobbie affair? I saw nothing wrong about that. He had every right to tell Betty, considering that he was discussing their respective spouses. What Don did was worse . . . he screwed Jimmy’s wife.
@ Rosie re: #254– Jimmy would have slept with Betty if she would have slept with him. The only reason he didn't use that to retaliate against Don was because he realized Betty wouldn't have it. So he took his next option, and simply told Betty.
Don just called Sally ‘salamander’ – adorable.
Betty has such a calmness about her – depression? resignation? relief?
Joy,
I don’t think JJ’s earlier scripts were weak, but I think they were written as having Betty weak. She’s been in denial about Don, now it’s anger.
I’m not trying to be a jerk but I don’t really “get” why everyone’s upset about MM!
I think Jane is getting her hopes up, Don-wise.
I think Pete is going to rat Freddy out. That is what pisses Peggy off.
Man, Betty is starting to piss me off. She just needs to grow up.
Carla is wise.
I officially hate Pete more than Osama Bin Laden.
I felt sad about Heath Ledger and Aaliyah and others dying but I didn’t lose my shit like these folks….That’s just me though!
Pete and Duck can go back to the rock they crawled out from under.
Agreed.
Great scene between Carla and Betty.
But, where you a huge fan. I mean look at the Claymates losing their shit over his coming out. Many people become emotionally involved in their celebrities.
I like the new PC commerical, because yes, I too am a PC.
I agree Elle. I caught that too.
Yes, Elle, I don’t have a good feeling about Freddy either.
Elle asks:
All women stare at Don.
“If I don’t go into that office every day, who am I?”
That’s almost too obvious a line.
@Elle: I’m also a PC!
I’m so ready for that new film with Leo and Kate. I love their chemistry together on screen. It’s like when Richard Gere and Diane Lane are in a film together. They just burn up the screen.
Don’t worry, Don gonna get his mojo back soon. I can feel it. Now, he needs to go home and stand up to his wife. Not physically, Don is not that kind of man. But just move things along. Tired of mopey Betty.
Lorna write that article on RR, if they don’t print it, e-mail it to me. I’d read it.
Maybe that woman stared at Don because she talked to that lady from Random House! Ha!
I wonder if that lady was a hooker thinking Don or Roger would want her “company” for the evening?
I’m also guessing the champ Freddy was talking about was the Floyd that Jimmy talked to after getting punched in the face by Don. For you younguns out there, that would be Floyd Patterson, famous boxer back then.
Elle, the Lipps have very generously said they would print it – I just need to find the time to finish it! Thanks for chiming in.
Thanks, Karl – I’ll take that with rum.
I think Rumsen is gonna take a nose dive off his terrace. That would be anough to push Peggy off on Pete. He was in his office in the dark. maybe he will feel bad.
Kay – Don has already been slutty this season.
im a PC and worried about Freddy
I hope the MM suicide isn’t a prelude for something happening to Freddy.
Interesting that Don just referenced the ‘Whitman maneuver’ to Sterling – he’s never acknowledged his old persona out loud, really, has he?
“mostly im relieved”
There is NEVER enough slutty Don for me! Nevah enuff! Hee!
Kay, you tart!
Notice that the shirts Jane brought for Don were in a Menken’s bag.
THEN “Tilden Katz.”
So Roger and Jane have been seeing each other??!! I knew he was attracted to her but I didn’t know they had a relationship. I thought by secretary that Mona meant Joan, not Jane. Wow! And how about Betty setting up Sara Beth like that and then taking the phone off the hook so they wouldn’t call her to see if she was coming to lunch or not?
I was going to say this was not one of the more exciting episodes but after the last commercial, the show got very interesting.
Very clever using a song sung by Marilyn Monroe during the credits.
So does Jane like Don, but getting with Roger for his money/she owes him for not firing her?
Thank you Dimples for mentioning the song in the Revolutionary Road trailer! I was wondering what it was when the preview played. I'm not too up to date on my Nina Simone, but I feel like I should be. That being said, Revolutionary Road looks like an un-subtle version of Mad Men – but I guess in a 2 hour or so movie you have less time to beat around the bush as you do in a TV show.
Anyway, back to Mad Men
Pretty solid episode, though I don't think it's up there with my favorites. Loved the mostly obvious allusions to Rachel. Maybe they're keeping her open as an option to come back if Maggie Siff's current TV show (sons of anarchy) fails? Or hopefully she'll just come back somehow anyway.
I think the way that they wrote Freddy out of the show conveniently tied into the whole "times are changing, out with the old" thing. Especially highlighted by the dinner conversation where Freddy & Roger started to reminisce about the old days.
Loved Roger & Don's scene in the bar after getting Freddy in the cab. The "Archibald Whitman" mention was great. And I just think I noticed upon viewing the replay that "you gotta move forward, its your life" was said by Roger, but then Mona says it to Don as if it was something Don said to Roger. At least I think that's how it worked, because I was typing this as the scene was playing. Or, Roger was just repeating what Don said, which emphasizes the effect it had on him and makes the last scene make more sense.
Anyhow, one other thing I wanted to throw out there before I continue to ramble on endlessly about the episode. This just stuck out to me and I don't know why. Hollis, the elevator operator, got more lines than usual when talking to Don & Peggy and showed a bit of a deeper side with his "some people just hide in plain sight" comment – which I realize was meant to be dramatic irony regarding Don & Peggy's characters. But then, there's a seemingly off hand comment made by Paul about Hollis "having a novel" during the blood drive scene. Then, Roger mentions one of the other agencies hiring a "colored" guy to Don. Just thought it would possibly be interesting if in the coming seasons/years (after the civil rights movement circa '64), we see Hollis moving up from elevator operator to copy writer, or some other SC position. They're going to wind up tackling subject matters like that anyway if they're going through the whole decade. Anyone concur? Or am I reading too much into it?
Gotta give Jane credit, she has barely been at the office and she already stole power from Joan and got Roger to leave his wife for her.
“Jane is my current desktop wallpaper, but I alternate with Joan. I would have Peggy also, but I would have to move all my icons around.”
Karl, I would think you would need to move the icons around for the Joan picture, haha.
so do i Laura.
Jane and that chick at the casino zoomed in on Don! They “sniffed” that he was having relationship issues! Then again, Don’s usually having some woman in his grill! Who knows?
#123 jess, we don’t know if/that Jane is Jewish. But Menken’s is not a client of SC anymore.
Now I see, I think Betty was being malicious when she set Sara Beth up with Arthur – the look on her face – the way it hardens after she talks to Arthur, tells all, now that I see it a second time. And as someone above said, she is paying SB back for saying that Don was perfect.
Did anyone notice the headline of the paper Don picked up first thing in the morning? MM’s body was still unclaimed–just like Don’s “brother” in the previous season. When he is discussing her death in the elevator he comments about how difficult suicide is to cope with. I think the secretaries were upset about her death because they identified with her, and were afraid they would end up alone/suicidal too.
Also, alcoholism is brought up a lot in this episode. Freddy’s crossed/wetted the line and is asked to leave the company. Pete calls alcoholics “those people” who don’t take responsibility for their lives. I think Freddy is afraid he will drink more than he already does if he stays home. He is under the illusion that he has to go into the office so he won’t drink much. Duck tells Don to let Freddy go, because he thinks it will do Freddy good/force Freddy to hit bottom. Of course, that is what happened to Duck and he is now sober/tea totaling. While Roger and Don are discussing how the clients see all Mad Men as being like Freddy, they pick up and drink their drinks simultaneously (funny and ironic). Roger and Don try to list ways that will stop them from acting out when drinking (drinking clear drinks, etc.). Don mentions that hitting Jimmy was similar to something Archibald Whitman would have done (his alcoholic father). Alcoholics are good at “hiding in plain site.”
Finally, I think Betty is hoping that Don will court her/woo her/win her back. Look at how angry she becomes when he says that he will not try to change her mind. That has to have hurt. He might as well have said, “it doesn’t matter to me.”
This was a very good episode, and I loved every minute of it.
Ok I just watched it!
So when Don asks Betty what she wants, to me its obvious:
she wants Don to feel bad, to feel guilty, to apologize, to admit what he did, and to beg for her back. She wants Don to feel as crappy as he’s made her feel.
Considering what he’s put her through I think that’s the least he could do. It actually makes me think Don is either some robot/caveman who doesn’t at all understand women, OR he doesn’t love Betty. And like I’ve said before, if he doesn’t love her he should tell her that. He should tell her SOMETHING.
Don needs to makeup his damn mind!
Also someone mentioned JJ’s interview on the amc site talking about putting Sarah Beth and Arthur to the test. What she means is, most of the men Betty knows have been unfaithful or tried to be: Don, Carleton, Roger so she wants to see if everyone is that way. Thus she set up the date.
I don’t see it as bitchy, I mean if those two have an affair, it’s their decision. I also don’t think Betty should have done it.
Again Roger and Jane is a wee bit creepy to me.
I wanted Peggy to slap Pete.
I feel bad because I’m slowly liking Don less and less, which is sad because I think he could be happy with his wife. I just can’t stand how he can be so knowledgeable at work and make all the right decisions. But when it comes to Betty and women in general he is so weak and ignorant and dismissive and fickle. I’m starting to get bored with his: “I do bad things because I don’t know who I am or what I want”
Again, Don, just make a freaking decision.
Here is an exchange between two commenters on Alan Sepinwall’s blog that I found really interesting and wanted to share:
Brandon Nowalk: One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is how many characters–Betty, Don, Pete, Joan, and Freddy sort of–were sleeping and suddenly woken up.
Mo Ryan: Nice catch! Yep, the last part of the season is about everyone waking up to the reality of their lives… I have no idea what they’ll do now that they’re “awake.”
I thought that was really interesting. Having the characters be woken suddenly from a sleep as a visual image of them waking up to the reality of their lives. And almost, in some ways, Marilyn’s death was a catapult for that. The characters asleep (looking dead) who suddenly awake to their life, which is something Marilyn will never be able to do.
A couple of things:
- when Joan mentioned to Roger about losing someone you care about, I think she was talking about herself after her affair with Roger ended. I think Joan really loved him, and was very hurt when the relation ended. Remember how update she was when Roger has his heart attack and she came to the office to send all the telegrams.
- I think that Roger IS leaving his wife for Jane. When Roger mentioned about his two heart attacks, I think he realized that life is too short to be in a loveless marriage, and I do think he may have fallen in love with Jane. Roger went to comfort Jane in front of Don after Mona left – he cares about her enough to not hide it in the office. Jane is offering Roger a new life.
Just a thought. It could have been a "phishing" expedition on Jane's part…see if Don would react. Don't know…I just feel like Don is Jane's long term project.
I just feel like Don is Jane’s long term project.
That is wild. Wow.
#258 ihavesmokeinmyeyes:
Excellent comments about Rachel, Freddy, and Hollis. I think you're right in all cases. Rachel has to come back; Freddy was a scapegoat (deservedly); and Hollis will join the staff once advertising becomes color blind.
Apart from all the drama, MM continues to be a great history lesson. Since he didn't live it personally, it appears Matt Weiner studied up on the events of the time and built them into his story. For those who lived it, what memories!
I agree with Roberta who says that Matt Weiner doesn't follow through on every single thread. He focuses on a character/story line during an espisode and then drops it for a while (or forever). Characters have to appear and disappear and we have to stay interested. People leave jobs, get fired, move on. It would be boring if they didn't bring in new characters. This all takes part (hopefully with more seasons) over a long period of time.
I think Freddy is gone for good (I noted he wasn't with the cast at the Emmy's). Francine's role wasn't big enough. Anne Dudek (Francine) had a major part in House last year and is probably looking for bigger fish.
Sally breaks me to pieces in every scene. She is so young and precious and things are coming so undone.
Selina, thank you for bringing up Sally in this conversation. She's growing more and more aware of the potential destruction of her parents marriage. It's interesting that Sterling, Duck and Don have daughters, who are becoming more and more aware (or are already aware) of their father's shortcomings.
Sally's the youngest of the girls, but I think that Don's so anxious of how she may or may not see him when she gets older that THAT'S another thing to worry about in keeping up his facade.
When he told Roger that he's feeling 'relief' in not having to go home is very interesting insight into his emotional and mental state right now. The only time that he can get some "freetime" away from being "on" all the time, is when he's with his mistresses (Midge, Rachel and Bobbi).
Yet, with all of his dishonesty, lies, pretending and disception, he's the one that made his home a battleground.
As soon as I could see comments on Ship of Fools I remembered a site on Bosch art
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/bosch/fools/
In The Ship of Fools Bosch is imagining that the whole of mankind is voyaging through the seas of time on a ship, a small ship, that is representative of humanity. Sadly, every one of the representatives is a fool. This is how we live, says Bosch–we eat, drink, flirt, cheat, play silly games, pursue unattainable objectives. Meanwhile our ship drifts aimlessly and we never reach the harbor … Eccentric and secret genius that he was, Bosch not only moved the heart but scandalized it into full awareness. The sinister and monstrous things that he brought forth are the hidden creatures of our inward self-love: he externalizes the ugliness within, and so his misshapen demons have an effect beyond curiosity. We feel a hateful kinship with them. The Ship of Fools is not about other people, it is about us.
So many times tonight I would have liked to shake or kick some of the characters. Roger is at the top of the kick list for his lack of sensitivity and cowardace for blaming Don for dumping of his wife for the convenient trophy secretary. No one character is perfect and all seem to be asleep for some part of their life leading to the rotten treatment of each other.
Things are changing with the early perfection of season one giving way to the chaos starting build in season 2. Marriages are beginning to break down with the ultimate victims the kids. The youth culture is about to explode with the early symptoms being the ease that men decide to trade in established relationships for the new model. The corporate machine is taking over and has no loyalty to anyone. Each character in Mad Men is a self-absorbed fool who is now living the consequences of their actions. Consequences aren’t fair in that some of the undeserving will prosper while more sympathetic characters are tossed aside. Loyalty means nothing in this world and how the characters proceed has me holding onto my seat for next week.
I wonder if Roger leaving his wfie for someone else will be a wake-up call to Betty.
She is the one in control right now. He is staying away. But he is still paying the bills.
She will start to wonder if he will leave her and the ball may swing back in Don's favor.
Pouty, upset and hurt, Betty doesn't want to become Helen and be labled a Divorcee'. She might bend more and let him home.
I haven’t read through all the comments, so I hope I’m not repeating.
I wonder if Jane and Roger were pillow talking about Don and that the Menken bag WASN’T a mistake.
Great last scene with Freddie. Cut to the heart.
#252: Great reading of why Betty may have set up that lunch. And honestly, don't think she's being "pouty." I know she's not the warmest of characters, but like everyone else, she's lost and confused and feeling her life out. The expectations placed upon 1960s housewives—that they be happy being pretty and keeping a home while their husbands work all the time and bed other women and hardly participate at home—are way too much for anyone to handle. Paging Betty Friedan.
I do think though that Don and Betty may still have future before them; they're the products of their time, but given a chance to figure out their authentic selves and, in turn, finally be authentic with each other, they can reconcile. And happily. I don't think Betty really wants to just be the happy homemaker that Don is bored with; when she thought she was going to be able to work again as a part-time model, she seemed renewed and engaged. In fact, Don had one of his sweetest moments with her that we've seen him had then, when he told her he could pick up his own drycleaning and would support her if she wanted to work again. He genuinely seemed into her then.
And I don't think Don realizes Betty doesn't want just a good provider who leaves her at home. In fact, I think she may actually be even more intrigued by Don if she ever finds out who he really is and how far he'd come to surmount all the challenges of his childhood. (Of course, she'd have to get over the deception, but in the end, I think she could move on from that, too.) She wants to see Don need her, and be vulnerable; he's so confoundingly "strong" and "perfect" in everyone's eyes, and she just wants a husband who's a partner—a "modern" thought in the 1960s—who wants her to be his partner, too.
And let's face it: Don and Betty have chemistry. The way they were in Three Sundays, when he woke up and wanted to be with her and closed the door on the kids so they could have some more private time — there's sizzle there. And the pics from The Wheel when they kiss; Don's eyes are closed in them, and it seems they were once genuinely in love.
But life has to get messy for them before they clean it all up.
Cyndi, NOPE no one came up with that.
Although I don’t know… Roger didn’t know about Rachel, presumably only Cooper did, after the fact.
Deb and I have always agreed that Don and Betty have love, have a marriage. Not a great one in either case, but it's there.
People accuse Don of having chosen Betty as the trophy wife, the wife you're supposed to have. I've always thought it to be deeper. She's like an angel… or was, until recently.
I think Don loved Betty the way he thinks you're supposed to love, and then he met Rachel, who he loved the way he didn't know he could. or something.
Rosie re: #254– Jimmy would have slept with Betty if she would have slept with him. The only reason he didn’t use that to retaliate against Don was because he realized Betty wouldn’t have it. So he took his next option, and simply told Betty.
You're justifying Don's punch, because Jimmy may have considered sleeping with Betty?
I don't buy that. As far as we know, Jimmy DIDN'T screw Don's wife.
As far as we know, Don DID screw Jimmy's wife. Don got what he had deserved, when Jimmy snitched on him. I say . . . it was about time.
Are Don's actions being excused, because he is the handsome and debonair lead character?
The episode is downloading now.
Just a couple thoughts while waiting to see the episode.
Marilyn Monroe, on the surface, had all the materials to be a happy woman and she couldn't get there. She had a string of unhappy marriages and a crappy childhood and she was treated like an idiot child by people who should have known better.
I could never stomach Arthur Miller, because he ridiculed her for being intellectually curious — he had to be the smart one and was probably pissed that she wanted to be more than what her packaging would suggest. While I'm certainly more sympathetic to DiMaggio, part of their issues was that he couldn't cope with a wife who drew an even bigger crowd.
Betty is also an ideal woman — who might not be able to keep a husband. (Forget whether the husband is worth keeping) I've talked about her life as a perfect recipe that yields less-than-perfect results and MM's death is an affirmation that sometimes perfection isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Joan, of course, is a physically ideal woman, who might be seeing that having a body like Marilyn Monroe might not lead to happiness, even if it helps you land a doctor.
Monroe's death would be terrifying, because if a girl like her couldn't "win," who could?
MW stated in the commentary to Shoot that Don loves Betty. In a previous commentary it became clear that January Jones wasn't even sure of that.
Don never gave Betty a chance to be what he needed. He limited how much he would share with her, and then cheated to get the missing pieces.
I'd like to throw out the theory that Jane might be pregnant with Roger's baby.
Why? Here are some possible clues:
All the secretaries are crying about Marilyn, but it seems that Jane has been crying a lot recently. Pregnant women hormones will make you very weepy.
Plus, they go out the way to show Peggy is dealing with it on a much more "mature" level-thinking about it from a business stand-point (the Platex comment to Don).
When Jane discusses her "mistake" with Don- the business trip excuse with Sally, watch for the shot when she stands back up. The camera lingers on her butt just a little too long, and she re-adjusts her dress from sitting down- not sure her clothes fit as well any more.
Given her history with Joan, we know she didn't get the same Peggy-birth control treatment from Joan's doctor friend.
We know Roger does not like growing old; two coronaries, daughter engaged, endless cheating with much younger women.
Jane has to be as young, if not younger than Margaret. In the Joan confrontation episode, she tells us she is only 20.
But why leave his wife for this one? Unless there was something else (a baby) to make this affair more meaningful than the others.
We assume Joan has been on the pill, and was during her affair with Roger.
Maybe she wasn't before, maybe she had previously been pregnant with a Roger baby and the abortion/hospital theory others have theorized is actually true. "Wait until you lose someone you love."
But I think Don's reaction at the end is the clincher. As soon as he sees Mona leave, Roger standing there and Jane crying, he figures it out immediately.
Another pregnant secretary-working my desk.
I didn't get the last one pregnant (Peggy), but I had to swoop in and help her get herself together and out of the hospital.
By golly, I didn't get this one pregnant either, and I'm not going to be the one to fix this mess- "Get her off my desk right now!"
I've got enough troubles at home without this mess.
Just a theory, I welcome any comments or alternate interpretations.
Love this blog by the way- Lipp Sisters are great!
@271, kind of yes, I think. We are so geared towards rooting for the main character. Weiner plays with that. The model for this series is Hitchcock, and Hitchcock DELIGHTED in playing with that. In Psycho, Hitchcock knew that once Janet Leigh was dead, the audience would root for Norman Bates, because the audience HAS to have a POV, a person to identify with and therefore root for.
We don't root for characters because they're bad or good, you see, we root for them because they're us. If the POV is established effectively, we can't help but root for even the darkest of villains (which is, let's face it, what Norman Bates is).
Hitchcock took a devilish pleasure in pushing an unwelcome POV on us, and Hitchcock's fingerprints are all over Mad Men.
We root for Don because we identify with him, and we want to punch Jimmy as badly as he does. It isn't justified morally? So what. We are steeped in Don's POV and that has greater power to the audience.
But comparing Rachel to Betty is comparing apples to oranges, it seems to me. Don revealed one side of himself to Rachel that he didn't to Betty, and so was able to get something different. (It's worth noting that when he showed vulnerability to Rachel, as when he wanted to escape because he was clearly overwhelmed by something he couldn't discuss—even with Rachel, he's not entirely open—she was put off and saw it as weakness. And yet Don needs to be able to be weak; his trouble is thinking he needs to put up such a front all the time.
Also, there's a huge preamble we haven't seen; how Betty and Don were before kids and success happened to them. Marriage is a tough nut to crack, made tougher by extra responsibilities and outside forces. The spouses get the brunt of the bad stuff, and the rest of the world—in this case, Rachel, Sterling Cooper, etc.—get to see the best. Don needs a safe place to be, and I argue that that may very well be home. That is, only if he allows it to be a place where Betty can be who she needs to be, too.
Just my two cents.
One of the things I most hate about Peggy's pregnancy is that now we speculate that everything is a possible pregnancy.
Women have things OTHER than pregnancy happen to them.
Another two cents:
I see a lot of Tony and Carmela in Don and Betty's marriage; how in the beginning Tony was falling apart because his life was so compartmentalized. But in the end, he and Carmela were a unit, and she was far more aware of the chips she was dealt and chose it anyway, instead of running off to stake a place in the world on her own. In the end, imperfect as they are, and though Tony did fall in love with other people—Juliana Margulies' character, for example—he was Carmela's all along. Hence the much buzzed about ending with them as a family unit at the diner.
Jane is a college graduate, while Margaret Sterling is around 18.
Juliana Margulies was on the Sopranos? Totally missed that memo.
@#254, Rosie, I felt the exact same way! Don punches Jimmy because Jimmy's revelation is why Don got kicked out of the house and I'm sure Jimmy's presence brings all that on, but I agree, Jimmy didn't deserve to be punched. Sure, Jimmy's a jerk, but who wronged who to begin with here? Don is the one who slept with Jimmy's wife. Talk about misplaced anger.
I thought this was one of the best eps this season…that ending made my jaw drop. And when Don asked Betty what she wanted, I wanted her to say "The truth!" But there was so much secrecy going on and it seemed like no one was really saying what was on their minds, which was bugging me. Betty calling Carla back in after saying she didn't want to talk about it while she's trying to break into Don's desk again (lol!), then not really saying anything. Don doing a 180 on Jane — that "I don't even know you" sounded really brutal.
On the one hand, I love Don…he is the protagonist, after all. But I get really frustrated with him as well.
Also, I didn't see Betty's actions with SB & James Spader look-alike as nasty. It's up to the two of them to decide if they're going to have an affair. But did she orchestrate it out of anger over how her own marriage is going? Yes, I think so.
The best line of the episode was in response to Don and Peggy's conversation about how Marilyn Monroe could feel alone despite her fame. The elevator operator points out: "Some people hide in plain sight." They ignore him.
Hard to imagine someone hiding in plain sight, Single Use Handle.
Did anyone else connect Freddie's drinking with Sterling's comment about how many Germans he'd killed (was it 15?) in WWII?
So perhaps it's not just that "drinking was accepted in the workplace back then" as much as it's the "thousands of veterans who came back with horrible visions and memories and sorta have to drink to forget"?
Hugely speculative on my part, but as many have stated there is rarely any wasted dialogue.
Also, how about Don & Peggy getting on the elevator together? The usher-guy says "Hello Mr. Draper" & she's like "Hi Don." Sounds like somebody took Bobbie's advice to heart?
Cheers to all.
Hi all!
Thoughts about "Six Month Leave":
I too caught the ominous tone in Freddy's farewell to Don. It was a clear farewell, not a carefree I'll-be-seeing-you, from a man who would know the difference. And until Peggy reminded me, I'd forgotten that Freddy was the one who first spotted her talent and suggested that she be called upstairs to sit with the big boys. No wonder she wanted to cover for him.
My husband loved this episode. We both really enjoyed the scene where very healthy, lovely Carla catches poor depressed Betty, trying to break into her own furniture (though we'd have written better dialogue for it):
CARLA: Can I do something for you? Draw a bath?
BETTY: Pick a lock?
But he really loved the boys-on-the-town scenes between Roger and Don, with and without falling-apart Freddy. I was delighted by Don's use of Rachel's husband's name as a pseudonym at the gentlemen's club. It was one only he would understand, but still a funny enough name to raise a smile from the other guys — and it showed us that Rachel is still in Don's head. Perhaps now more than ever.
And unlike some other posters here, I loved seeing Don take Jimmy down. It was Don and his alter ego, the Dick he's struggled for years to kill, meeting at last: and Jimmy did not see it coming. He went down like a ton of bricks, and I cheered. If I should be sorry for doing that, then I guess I'm a bad person. 'Cuz I'm good with it.
That line about "being married or being right" was classic Roger, and very funny.
My husband's favorite scene was the two of them — Don and Roger — sitting in the quiet bar, just talking. I was less of a fan of that scene; I felt it showed collusion between Jane Siegel and Roger. That scene (more than the earlier one in the club) indicated that Roger had intel on what Don was going through — info he could not have had without talking to Jane. Moreover, he was prepared to use what he knew about Don to talk about women. A certain woman in particular.
Gosh. Wonder who?
To state how I see Jane: I feel that she has political skills that Joanie either does not have, or has not seen fit to develop. Jane tagged Roger as a powerful man in the office, and (after he saved her job) probably began a dalliance with him.
But Roger is old and soft, and Jane is young, college-educated and wily. Jane's interested in playing Roger, not in catching him. You can see this in her reaction to his gesture in the office, after Mona has come by and his cover is blown.
The one Jane seems to really want is Don. But he sees her for what she is (people who are truly discreet never have to say so), so he keeps her at arm's length — or further.
Re that Mencken's bag, Don's use of Rachel's husband's name, and Rachel's continued presence in this show despite her absence: it hit me last night that we may not see her again. Or if we do, we probably will not see the two of them reunite. Don fell in love with Rachel, and was hurt badly by her rejection. He shared things with her that he had not shared with others. That was a lot of personal investment to lose. Somehow, Don knows — in the aftermath of his loss — that Rachel is now out of his league.
Don knows that he will never feel that way again. So while he's feeling "relief" at not being with Betty, not having to hide quite as much of himself anymore, he's struggling with what free time used to mean. Don may be battling a deep longing for what he can no longer have.
Finally: Betty. Wow.
I kept telling my husband, in those Draper-house scenes, "I've been here before." That place was the home of every depressed and angry single mom I knew when I was a kid.
They nailed it. Those neighborhood women, smoking and drinking in some kind of housedress-and-slippers combo all day, curtains drawn against the sun: Betty was all of them. Even with a migraine, I still can't have the blinds drawn during the day in my home. The associations with those women are just too strong.
And the drinking, too. I have never been much of a drinker. THIS IS WHY.
I didn't necessarily see Betty as orchestrating the beginning of an affair between her two friends, with that lunch. I saw it as something else: her friend wanted to go to lunch with her, and she wasn't up to it. She did not want to sit and talk for two hours about husbands and children. She is depressed. She doesn't even like to leave the house.
So she used Arthur as something of a surrogate — knowing he would not turn down a chance to see her, knowing SB would be delighted to see Arthur. The lunch rearrangement may have been a test, but it also relieved Betty of a social burden. When you're depressed, every social outing is a burden.
I know a little about this stuff.
Juliana Margulies played a real estate agent whom Tony took a liking to, then he broke it off cuase he had a attack of conscious because he was trying to be faithful to Carmela. She then met Tony's nephew, Chris, at AA and they started an affair. She got really hooked on drugs and strung out in the end. This was I think the first part of the last season?
Roberta,
When my husband and I were first dating we were colleagues. I used to torture myself with the question of where we could go to lunch and not be seen by others from the office.
My husband (then my boyfriend) always used to pick someplace close by. This annoyed me to no end.
"Hide in plain sight," is what he always said.
What I learned from that (because it worked) was this: when you're up to something, act like you're up to nothing. That's what hiding in plain sight is.
Smart guy. Guess that's why I married him.
Forgot to mention in my last post: Revolutionary Road (forthcoming film with Leo & Kate) is a hell of a good book. I picked it up after the end of Season 1, when I still had the "Mad Men" buzz on and wanted to read something from that era. Richard Yates wrote the novel; Kurt Vonnegut once called it "The 'Great Gatsby' of my time". Very good read.
Published in 1961, the book was optioned by John Frankenheimer — but he decided to make "The Manchurain Candidate" instead. I'm almost glad of this now — each will be a neat time capsule, even though this one is a serious look back at the American dream turned nightmare.
What makes this movie a good call for our time is that it deals very frankly with one of the political-football issues of the past 40 years. People now tend to use the words "pro-life" and "pro-choice" without really thinking about what those words refer to, and why they exist. This film might help clear up some of those euphemistic gray areas.
Anyway … be advised that the book has dark places. It goes further than Mad Men can, which is why I'm glad this film is finally being made.
Southie, I definitely thought of that veteran connection last night – the wars in which they fought have defined them, and the residual effects are still reverberating years later. Perhaps this has something to do with how sympathetic Roger and Don are to Freddy's alcohol indiscretions, because they are veterans themselves. I also find it interesting how there's a certain resentment from the older men toward the younger men who went to college instead of serving (remember Roger's comment to Pete last season about Don being his CO).
One of my favorite scenes in the series is the Roger, Betty, Don dinner scene in Red in the Face, when Roger tells his war stories, and the differences among the veterans of the different wars – the way Don says how the WWII vets 'stole all the glory,' yet Roger defers to his own father's trench warfare experiences in the first world war.
Anne, good post about RR. Richard Yates is seriously underrated, and I hope the film sheds some light on all his writings.
And yes, the book is incredibly bleak, and the ending quite staggering and controversial (about an issue still controversial, as Anne mentioned). I hope they haven't messed with it for the film, but I wonder how audiences will react to it. I suppose it could have success like The Hours did, another bleak book, that resonated with audiences nonetheless.
Another comparison of Tony Soprano and Don Draper in USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/2008092…
"She did not want to sit and talk for two hours about husbands and children. She is depressed. She doesn’t even like to leave the house."
I agree with this, but I also think she was being very passive aggressive by putting her friend in a tempting position. She is testing her. Did you see her reaction when Sarah Beth spoke about how her husband is so easy to please, and then how Don is Perfect. I thought for just a moment she was gonna open up to her. Betty has these women around her who could be such a help Carla and Sarah Beth. She doesn't use them as sound boards.
I just recently caught the old version of "The Women". It is timeless. I think her mother told her not to let on to her friends that he husband was cheating, for shorely they would see to it that she ended up in divorce. I absolutely loved Roselind Russell and Joan Crawford as the bad guys. I was amazed at the fashion too. Their warddrobe made MadMen clothes look down right comfortable.
I want to see the never version, but will probably wait until DVD comes out.
great episode – probably the best one this season. i loved the marylin and freddy content; but the continued confrontation between don and betty as well as roger's surprise in the end. brilliantly done – maybe another writting emmy for matt weiner and co.
key question for me in this one was – what does betty want? and what does don want too? he finally has the chance to get rid of dead weight around his neck, but i don't think he's going to leave her? he doesn't care either way – he will continue being don no matter what she decides.
betty on the other hand couldn't stand to be a 'divorcee', so what is she going to do?
@ Anne B #284
I And until Peggy reminded me, I’d forgotten that Freddy was the one who first spotted her talent and suggested that she be called upstairs to sit with the big boys. No wonder she wanted to cover for him.
I'd forgotten that, too. "Home run, ballerina!"
LL, definitely agree on the older/younger (service/college) resentment. That scene where Roger dresses down Pete to conceal the fact that they lacked the juice to get him fired probably remains my favorite scene to date. Pete's a bedwetter.
Next question: do we REALLY think we've seen the last of the Roger/Joan storyline? Trading Mona-for-Jane just feels like a red herring, not sure why.
A lot of people have mentioned David Chase & the Sopranos, but has anybody mentioned David Simon & The Wire yet? Wiener seems to have MUCH more in common with the latter (at least in terms of storytelling & style) than the former. I see tons of similarities between The Wire & Mad Men (the environment as a legit character, so much plot development taking place off-camera & instead relying on subtle cues to convey, not a word of wasted dialogue, etc.) whereas the Sopranos, in retrospect, now seem like the ramblings of a senile old underboss reliving his glory days. The whole show wound up being one big Pine Barrens episode.
Whereas The Wire – and, hopefully Mad Men – is a tightly scripted arc, with major events meticulously foreshadowed.
Did anybody notice that 5 characters were caught passed out on their divans, (to coin a 50's term), this episode. Don, Betty, Pete, Freddie of course, and even our gal Joan. Whoa. They should have entitled this episode My Comfy Couch. Another great one!!!!
@suz: Great observation about the couches!
lol, suz. I wasn't counting, but I did notice a lot of "lying down on the job." Joan especially surprised me.
#293: Great observation. Hadn't noticed that.
It seems to me that both Don and Betty are hiding in plain sight. On the surface, they seemed perfectly happy filling the roles proscribed to them—Betty, the happy, suburban, non ambitious housewife; Don, the cheating, hyper-successful, detached ad man—but they both want something entirely different—Betty, a more fulfilling marriage and independence, perhaps to work and have an identity separate from wife and mother; Don, a more complex rendering of what a "real" man is. For all his bravado, he 's not quite like all the guys around him. And we've seen a soft side peek through the hardened, Brylcreemed shell. (The way he hurts when he hugs Sally and calls her Salamander; the way he uncharacteristically seemed proud and supportive of Betty's attempts to create a more independent, work-home life, and also the way he calls her Birdie (such a sweet nickname.) His wrecked childhood may have marked him, but in the end, I predict (wish?) what he'll really end up craving is a sense of stability, a surrender of secrets, and a family—what he didn't have as a kid. Which isn't to say they'll both raise hell and wreak major havoc before they get to the point where they finally figure out they want the same thing.
Then again, I do wonder if it will be Betty who will personify the feminist struggles of the 1960s; maybe Don will settle down and Betty will abandon ship (the ship of fools?) and head off to San Francisco to be free and "find" herself, just in time for the free love movement to begin. How ironic it would be if she's the one that grew into more of the kind of woman Don cheated with; a Midge/Rachel hybrid that won't want him anymore in the future. (Purely conjecture, of course; haven't seen anything bearing this theory out.)
Roberta Lipp writes at 270:
Ms Darkly writes at 273:
I think there's truth in both of those (one of the reasons MM is great). Don's essential dishonesty probably does dinstance him from Betty — though in S1, Betty might not have been able to handle the truth. And that's certainly what Don thought.
If MW says Don loves Betty, I take him at his word, though perhaps misguidedly as an ideal or later in a paternal sort of way when Betty had the tremors. Even so, in the pilot, Don is at least partially skeptical of true love.
In Rachel, he found a strong, independent woman with the sort of outsider perspective Don has — but probably never expected to find in a woman of that era. And Don's dishonesty did in that relationship, as tends to happen.
Okay, the women were emotional over the death of Marilyn Monroe. Jane was emotional over being a ho-bag. Peggy was emotional over Freddie, and before that she was kind. Betty is running on pure emotion.
The men spend the episode negating/discounting emotions. Don and Roger gave Freddie a disingenuous send-off, unwilling to deal with his pain and embarrassment, they pretended that a boy's night out was what he needed. Pete did what he felt was logical, and Duck also used strategy rather than the empathy which should be there when you consider his past. Roger wrote off Joan's pain, not to mention the pain he was causing another woman who saw him through two heart attacks.
Don wants to deal with Betty in this very logical way and has a ready made alibi for the kids. If Betty was in a logical, or at least pragmatic, place then she could have made a decision by now — being married is better than being like Helen or proceeding to dump him and getting as much cash as possible. But of course, she is feeling too much pain, and for good reason.
Don hitting Jimmy was pure emotion, but when he mentioned it as a Archibald Whitman move there was clear shame, so emotion was rejected.
Then we have male hypocrisy. Exhibit A is Duck Phillips screwing over Freddie. But tell me, is vomiting oysters all over the shoes of clients really better than pissing oneself — or is that counteracted by your name being on the building? How about getting wasted and hitting on someone's wife AKA "we've all parked our car in the wrong garage?" How about drinking and driving, getting into an accident, and having your most loyal junior copywriter bail you out?
Hi guys. Great episode. I was just kinda watching thinking, "another slow, contemplative MM ep" and then that last scene. Pow! I laughed out loud. And then I sat up through the rerun just to rewatch the scene with Don & Roger in the bar. It means totally different things the second time through.
My take on Betty: she was testing to see if she's the only person left in the world who wants to be monogamous. And also to get them both to leave her alone by getting them interested in each other.
My take on the whole Roger/Jane/Joan cluster-thingy: when Roger gave Joan the kissoff, he really did hurt her. (I mean really, he called her "a piece of ass.") She was probably harboring the hope somewhere of him actually leaving his wife for HER. (Remember her saying, "I thought your problem was with Mona, not the whole idea.") He never took her seriously or was in love with her. Imagine how she's gonna feel when she finds out he's marrying Jane. And I think he IS in love with Jane. Men tend to "fall in love" when they are ready to, when the timing is right, and whoever they happen to be with at that critical time (if they enjoy sleeping with them) is usually 'the one." I think Roger was just with a not new babe, and hit critical mass of his disillusionmen of his marriage. The reason Jane was upset was that Roger probably never ran the whole leaving his wife thing past her, just assumed she'd want to marry him. She probably only slept with him because she felt obligated since he got her her job back, and now she's in over her head.
I think Betty may be preggers and that, coupled with Don's shock and aversion to Roger's behaviour, will make Don & Betty give it all another go, the disasterous failure of which will be the plotline of season 3. But I hope I'm wrong about that, actually.
That's just the way Im seeing it today. We shall see what we shall see.
btw, my mom says no women she knew were all that upset about MM's death. But I do remember John Lennon's murder and Elvis, and they were both big damn deals for many people.
"We don’t root for characters because they’re bad or good, you see, we root for them because they’re us. If the POV is established effectively, we can’t help but root for even the darkest of villains (which is, let’s face it, what Norman Bates is).
Hitchcock took a devilish pleasure in pushing an unwelcome POV on us, and Hitchcock’s fingerprints are all over Mad Men.
We root for Don because we identify with him, and we want to punch Jimmy as badly as he does. It isn’t justified morally? So what. We are steeped in Don’s POV and that has greater power to the audience."
The problem is I can't always root for Don . . . even if he is the main character. I can root for him, when he is in a situation that encourages me to root for him. I can say the same about all of the characters. But the situation with the Barretts and Betty has not given me any desire to root for Don. And I find it difficult to understand how anyone can root for a man who punched another guy for telling his wife about his affair. Especially since he had conducted said affair with the wife of the guy he punched.
I can't do that.
I also have trouble rooting for Don. I agree with my sister who said that Don only looks good in comparison to all the other yahoos that work at SC. He's the lesser of available evils.
Plus he's smoking hot. That does turn a few heads.
I will probably always root for Don — and Peggy, too, because they are two self-made people. Their absolute refusal to let anyone in is, for me, a dare: why not? Why can't I come in? I'm just gonna hang around here till you let me in, you bastard.
This is an issue with me. It goes waaaaay back (in my case, to my childhood as the second-oldest of a very reserved man who looked a lot like Don). And yes, barking up the wrong tree in this way has hurt me in the past. Some closed-off people really get angry when others try to get close to them, and can be complete bullies.
But that's not the sense I get with Don and Peggy. I think that they are broken but accessible people, trying to navigate the world while trying to hide their badly-healed broken places. Broken people, because I am the child of one, fascinate me.
I also sense that both Don and Peggy are trying to change. That goes a long way with me. When my dad did it, it was late in the game — but at least he tried. He has became a softer, more emotional person in the past couple of decades. It's been hard going for him, but quite lovely for me.
Understand, though, the perspective of the child who has never completely understood her dad. He always hid a huge part of his life from us, and much of that part is still hidden and lost forever (family members we will never meet, the story he's never fully told). The search for clues is everything, to me. If I see a side of Dad that looks new to me, I am enthralled by it: Oh my God! A clue!
I'm much the same way with Don, which is one reason why I loved that punch. He was doing something completely authentic and impulsive. He was Dick AND Don at once: which is, when I'm being honest, what I want for him. I want Don to be able to be past and present at once, and not this sad patchwork guy from nowhere. That guy is good-looking, but he's also kind of an empty shell.
I also just felt Don's anger, at the moment he punched Jimmy. I'd be lying if I said I didn't. I felt it on a gut level. I'd say that was the POV kicking in, but I think it was something else.
Good thing I have a shrink.
From the pov of someone like Don (and I certainly feel it tonight, maybe because it's Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year): well, I can totally relate to this aspect of his personality, AnneB. And it's funny that you mention it because some weeks back I began a post about it (about leaving the past behind) and haven't finished it. I promise I will finish it before the end of the week and post it.
Don has high values and cares about the people at work. He has no control in his personal life however. It is just like JFK. Still he is an essentially good man. His wife is weak and should have put her foot down long ago, but it just wasn't that easy to do back then. He is handsome and attracts women like flies. Betty is so naive. And yet she is changing and seeing the light as are many other women in the office including Peggy. It is the beginning of the Women’s liberations movement in earnest. It is also the beginning, particularly for men, for seeing the low values in business. The generational discord will begin not too long after. Don is not happy deep inside because he sees how cruel the business world is. He has high values in that regard. If he only could control himself in his personal relationships. Maybe he just doesn't love Betty because she is so weak.
Things are about to change in society: actually explode in many new directions.
Thanks, Rosie — you just inspired my next topic.
Ms Darkly: "ho bag" LMAO! I noticed that Roger seems to be making Jane over to look like Joan.
New commenter here, so hello all from the bottom of this very long post!
People have been discussing whether or not Don loves Betty, and MW apparently confirmed that he does. But does *Betty* know that? She thought he set her up with the Heineken thing, she knows he's cheated on her even if she has no proof, and he's apparently a-okay with moving out if that's what she wants. I would think from her perspective it doesn't seem like he cares that she's kicked him out except insofar as it affects the kids. And god only knows what Don thinks this is doing to Sally and Bobby, given that his models for parenting growing up were… less than ideal.
Also: dear Betty, one doesn't use a screwdriver to open a locked drawer, one uses a bent hairpin or paper clips.
Finally, for the next news roundup: Glarkware has a t-shirt tribute this month to everybody's favorite office manager.
I don't think Betty knows it, no. I'm not sure Don knows it either.
I don't have access to season 1 at the moment, would someone mind checking out the MW commentary for Shoot, the scene when Don comes home after Betty is fired from Coke? Verify that love was mentioned? I remember it, but since I can't check my recollections…
A few thoughts…
When Carla suggested Betty get a breath of fresh air, her first thought was to see what Arthur was up to at the riding stables. She believed him when he confessed that he was with Tara, but thought about her…all the time. So, she shows up to get some male attention and Arthur is hitting on someone else! She set him up for revenge and she set SB up to get her to leave her alone.
Then there is Carla who is raising someone else's kids and doing Betty's housework while her own kids are probably at home raising themselves because Mom has to work. Yet, she shows kindness towards Betty because she knows exactly what is going on.
A side note:
If Queen Latifa had played Carla, she would have said, "Girl, let me help you get that thing open."
Jane was out to get Rodger as soon as he set up the challenge when he saved her from being axed. I bet she played the game much better than Joan did; she wanted more.
Finally – loved Jimmy's comeback line to the boxer after being punched.
Love this site. Lots of insightful comments.
"If Queen Latifa had played Carla, she would have said, “Girl, let me help you get that thing open.â€
LOL. Actually she would have said, "Girl, let me show you how to open it."
Watched it last night on iTunes. Loved it!! One of my favorite episodes this season: very rich. A couple of thoughts:
(1) I love the relationship between Don and Peggy. There is so much mutual respect. He sees himself in her, and he identifies with her. It's unusual to see an older, more powerful man identifying with a younger, less powerful woman. This is one of the reasons I like Don: his respect for Peggy. She blossoms in its light.
(2) The "Archibald Whitman" moment. Cary Grant's given name was Archibald Leach." There is a scene is one of his movies–The Philadelphia Story, maybe?–where Grant's character makes a passing comment almost under his breath about a guy named Archie Leach. The self-referentiality makes it funny. When Don mumbled that the punch was "a real Archibald Whitman move" (I don't remember the exact line), he sat there looking like Cary Grant…and I thought of Archie Leach, who remade himself into the divine Cary Grant.
Finally watched it last night.
lol at #293 DH called this episode "The One Where Everyone is Shown Sleeping on a Couch"
I really liked Peggy in this episode. When she defended her actions to Don and defended Freddy I thought the look on Don's face called to mind when he said to Betty "She blinds you with her earnestness" or something along those lines. You could see his respect grow for her.
And I agree with your second point Inanna Don didn't even miss a beat and appeared to have the faintest smirk on his face when said just like C. K. Dexter Haven.
MW may have said that Don loved Betty last season. Is it possible that in the meantime, with all the water under the bridge and losing Rachel, that he no longer does?
Lurker, first time poster(just wanted to say I really enjoy your site!). I think this was definitely one of the best eps of the season, it's 3 days later, and my husband and I are still talking about it.
This was the first episode in a long while where I have liked Peggy. For most of this season, she has seemed almost like an automoton, not able (or willing) to show much emotion on any subject, taking Don's advice a little too much to heart. I really enjoyed her this week, liked how she covered for Freddy without a thought, was furious with Pete for being a 'tattle tale', genuinely sad to see Freddy go, and stating that while she was happy about the promotion, she hadn't wanted it that way.
Don is very flawed, and frustrating to no end, but I think he is great. This was also a good ep for him, loved his smacking down Jimmy. And his comment to the boys when they were making fun of Freddy. (Shame on Harry! I almost expected better of him). I have wondered how Betty was before she met Don, if Don has made her the way she is, or if it was there all along?
" Maybe he just doesn’t love Betty because she is so weak."
Wouldn't that be hypocritical of Don? In his own way, he is just as weak and cowardly. In fact, I can say the same for all of the characters.
Welcome, new Basketcases!
Nemirra, I think Harry is the kind of guy who goes along. He's a follower, a definite Beta male. He's a good guy, but I don't see him ever standing up to a group of guys like that.
Rosie, Don is very strong. Sometimes cowardly, but he reads "strong" as independent and stoical. Betty is intensely dependent and she breaks.
I see both Don and Betty as being good products of their time. Strong or weak is a judgement. They are the result of the choices offered them, the examples they had growing up, and the kinds of behavior they felt their settings would support.
Not unlike us.
What's interesting about the time portrayed in this show — and ours — is that what many of these people have been investing in has not really worked out as they planned. They find themselves unhappy when they expected to be happy and fulfilled. They're having to fight harder just to keep what they have, when they're not even sure sure they want it anymore.
Those on the show who are solidly outside this mold — Peggy, Carla — step into opportunity where it slips away from others. They are workers; their worlds are defined by what they can do, not by what they won't do. They can see where things are moving, and go with it.
What I like about the character of Don is that he stands between these types. He is two men (Don and Dick), a worker and a smooth operator, but most of all a survivor. We are seeing him flex between those two sides now, and it's fascinating. Don may or may not be strong, but he learns very quickly, and moves on even faster. In this way, he is thoroughly modern.
Likewise, Betty may or may not be weak. I am not sure what she is learning. She seems to be sensing things right now: deep things, messages about her current life and probably also about her past. I'm positive that she can move on, and I think that she will. She's just taking more time to do that than her husband does — because, honestly, she's less broken than he is, and things hurt her more.
But Betty will rise. She's angry. Anger's a hell of a motivator.
Semi-lurking. Wanting to share my loosely connected thoughts so I can get back to sleep.
Thinking about my own continuous partial POV–identifying with the Draper children, as I belong to their generation. Does Daddy love me? The warmth that comes from Daddy makes me want to forgive his sins. Daddy lives in a fascinating world. We miss him. Does Mommy love me? I might someday blame all my problems on her, as a kind of revenge for her seeing me as not good enough, not enough to make her happy. (This, by the way, is something I wonder about when I see so much animosity towards Betty on the AMC blog).
In "A Night to Remember" Duck referred to having lived in New Rochelle, home of Dick and Laura Petrie on the Dick Van Dyke show. There is a song by the Scud Mountain boys, titled "Van Drunk", which was the alcoholic Van Dyke's nickname. Opening lyric
"I was unhappy/
To hear you'd been wasted/
When you made all those TV shows/
The whiskey and the mouthwash/
And Mary's fine underclothes/
Can't hide all the trouble you knew/
Each night in my parlor/
I leaned on my elbows/
The ottoman got you again/
But that was a dim light/
Compared to the way you fell/
Over, and over, and over.
This song resonates with me in the same way Mad Men does. It's about seeing through, while still fascinated with, the beautiful illusion of the Dick Van Dyke show, a show and an illusion that was so important to my parents.
On another note, parallels between MM and DD. Both self-created name changers, who achieved success beyond the wildest expectations of the sorry people who raised them, through a devastating (but for whom?) combination of good looks and a talent for riding the zeitgeist. Has Don Draper ever had thoughts of suicide? What will happen when he gives himself the legendary "Don Draper treatment?" He sees through the illusion, but understands and uses its power, and this makes him seem almost magical. So for him, MM's death seems to be a cautionary tale.
@ #318: What’s interesting about the time portrayed in this show — and ours — is that what many of these people have been investing in has not really worked out as they planned. They find themselves unhappy when they expected to be happy and fulfilled.
Yes, this happened to me, even though I tried really hard not to let it. It may just be part of the modern human condition.
@ #319: On another note, parallels between MM and DD. Both self-created name changers, who achieved success beyond the wildest expectations of the sorry people who raised them, through a devastating (but for whom?) combination of good looks and a talent for riding the zeitgeist.
Very smart.
Don Draper does not strike me as a strong man. Rachel Menken was right about him. He is a coward. And for me, he made that perfectly clear when he refused to admit his affair with Bobbie in "A Night to Remember" . . . and when he punched Jimmy in "Six Months Leave". For me that punch was nothing more than an attempt by Don to place all of the blame for his marital woes upon Jimmy's shoulders, instead of accepting responsibility for his own actions.
Away for 2 days. So much to catch up on here!
@Inanna @311
It was in His Girl Friday where Cary Grant makes the reference to Archie Leach (it's a movie that glories in self-referential in-jokes. At one point, Grant identifies a character by saying "he looks like that actor, uh, you know, Ralph Bellamy." The character is played by, of course, Ralph Bellamy LOL). Also, in Gunga Din, he plays a character named Archibald Cutter. In one scene, where he reads the name aloud off of an invitation, you can see him savor the sound, enjoying the joke on his own name. Nice comparison, as he was a desperately poor kid who made himself into THE model of sophistication.
Just a quick comment about the guys making fun of Freddy & Don confronting them about their "disrespectful" ways.
First. The guys don't know that Freddy is going to be fired because of this. Like Peggy says, they just assumed nothing would happen to him and it would just be a funny tale to tell around the office. But Don now know that Freddy is going to be fired because of this drunkin mistake. Therefor he has the hindsight of the consequences where as the other men do not.
I think if they would have know about Freddy losing his job..they probably would've kept the jokes to themselves.
Plus, y'know, Rich Sommer did an awesome Joel Murray.
"Jane’s as morally warped as Pete!"
They're all morally warped. And I'm including Don and Peggy. They're just all morally warped in different ways.
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