I had actually failed to list this in the Mad News, because I didn’t think it said anything particularly new. We’ve linked to America: The National Catholic Weekly before, so it seemed a tad reduntant. That was a mistake on my part; putting together the news means I’m making a lot of culling decisions, but based on a lot of lively commenting, a Catholic view of Father Gill clearly has value to this blog.
So, what does James Martin, S.J. have to say about Father Gill?
[Y]ou had to feel a little sorry for his parishioners.
Mighty harsh!
Martin calls Father Gill relentless and perhaps merciless. He points out the lack of support for Peggy in her professional work for the church.
To recap: Father Gill badgers his parishioner into doing something she doesn’t want to do and says repeatedly she’s too busy to do. When she does it, he allows two women who know less about the situation to make decisions without sticking up for her. He interrupts her workday so that she can do some copying for him. He badgers her into talking about something he heard in the confessional and isn’t supposed to talk about anyway, even when she says she doesn’t want to talk about it.
In the last episode I thought he needed a course in canon law. This time I think he needs a course in pastoral counseling.
The comments section in America is also interesting
27 Responses to “A Catholic Opinion on Father Gill”
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That is very interesting! Not being raised Catholic I didn't know if that was 'normal' for priests to do. I do think Father Gil has some really dark things in his background and has picked Peggy for some personal reason to try to exploit.
I don't know if I agree with Father Martin (I'm pretty sure disagreeing with a priest is bad, but whatever, I'll put my soul at risk for this post). It's true, a modern priest would never put those kinds of screws on their parishioners, but Father Gill is part of an earlier Catholic church, one that had a lot more authority in people's lives and was a lot more invasive. Of course, talking about things you hear in the confessional is a huge no-no, so is badgering your parishoners, but there's a lot of things that I think Father Gill can get away with that modern priests wouldn't be able to.
It's been fun to watch Mad Men portray pre-Second Vatican Council life, when they showed the mass with the priest with his back to the church I literally freaked out for a second, and then I remembered that's the way they used to do things!
Also, I think that the fact that Father Gill doesn't really behave like a real priest might, is pretty typical I think for television and movies. Hollywood has a love affair with Catholic clergy (it makes sense, with the clothes and the rituals and the stained glass churches and confession, there's a lot of aesthetically attractive and dramatic things to shoot), but they play fast and loose with the details.
For example, in modern movies, directors utilize old-fashioned confessionals a lot, the kind with the screen etc. But in most modern American churches, those confessionals are no longer used (they exist, but we don't use them), because they don't give the option for face-to-face confession, which you now have to allow. It's a little detail, but the first thing I notice about any Catholic moment in movies and on TV.
Julia, that's interesting. How long has the face-to-face confessional been an option?
I was surprised Father Gil had time to either drive or take the Fourth Avenue IRT into Manhattan in order to visit Peggy at her workplace, given all the duties he must have had at his parish. And then to bring up something he heard in the confessional, has not yet actually confirmed as truth, and try to pull out of her in her office — that seemed particularly out of line.
@Julia: the confessionals are still available at my church. We have a lot of older communicants and immigrants and they make particular use of them. It's probably been 20 years since my last "confession" because we also have a group penitance and reflection option. And of course, being a submarine Catholic, I don't come in to port very often…
And what is the face-to-face confessional? Or, if the old-fashioned confessionals aren't used, where does confession take place? Do you meet in the priest's office?
I can see the appeal of the (relative) anonymity of the old-fashioned confessional.
I was raised a devout Catholic (St. Edmond's Grade School, Bishop [now Saint] Neumann's High School, and Villanova University). I am no longer devout. In 1962 I was in High School at age 15.
The involvement in the community by parish Priests and the absolute reverence the parishioners had for them are both very accurately portrayed in MM. And should a Priest come into you home – well, it might just well have been the Pope (as the priest is a representative of the Pope in his parish).
Priests then had few resources available to them and often identified people in their parish with skills to help them (from carpentry, to writing, to flower-arranging, to contribution-collecting, etc.). And given the Priest's "power", they often were, as Father Gil stated, liaisons to get stuff done. People would do things readily for a Priest they might resist doing for someone else.
My take on Father Gil is that Matt Weiner is reverently and respectfully portraying him. To me, he is clearly a "messenger". That is, he is Peggy's connection to her spiritual (and therefore her psychological) self. To me, her collapse in the bathtub portrays brutally how Peggy had also "hit the iceberg" in A Night To Remember, and got there through Father Gil's probing questions.
Some commenters believe Father Gil has been too intrusive – but I respectfully disagree. Although many failed in this mission, it was incumbent on Priests to reach out to parishioners who appeared to be in need (either spiritually or otherwise – but especially spiritually). He would not be fulfilling his Sacred Vows had he ignored what he saw quickly in Peggy – and was reinforced by the terrible revelation he received in the confessional about her – that she is a troubled soul needing spiritual help.
The debate about whether he could use what he heard in the confessional is a valid one – but in my viewing, he has yet to directly state his knowledge about Peggy’s pregnancy and baby to anyone. Even when giving Peggy the blue egg, he just said "for the little one" – he didn’t say (I think) "for YOUR little one." So from my understanding of Catholicism, although a priest may not directly repeat what he hears in a confession – that doesn't mean he can’t act on that information while still retaining confidentiality. For example, if he hears in a confession that a parishoner is considering suicide, he can show up at that person's door asking if he can spend time with them – as long as he doesn't reveal the source – or even necessarily say he knows they are contemplating suicide. If he hears in a confession that a parishioner is failing financially – that doesn't mean he cannot intervene in some way to help – as long as the specific confidentiality is maintained.
And so it is with Peggy. It is his duty to help her – and he no doubt likes her as a person too. (By the way, I don't buy the idea, nor do I perceive it in any way in the acting/direction, that Father Gil is interested in Peggy sexually. And should Weiner go there, I will be astoundingly disappointed).
Father Gil is also messaging to us, the viewers – that The Times They Are a (truly) Changin’. From the coming Vatican II, to folk music, to an open modern "grace before meals", and even his forgiving nature about what he know about Peggy. Most older Priests would have condemned her. Also, he portrays the repeated MM theme of what was called then "The Youth Movement" beginning its impact on the current adult society formed from the 40s and 50s.
As is the case with this wonderful series, I see Father Gil as a complex character whose thematic and dramatic impact is an important part of the Mad Men epic story.
All IMHO.
I posted this elsewhere yesterday, but I will say again that Father Gil isn't necessarily acting on the information he got from Peggy's sister.
The fact that Peggy attends church regularly and doesn't receive communion, is a strong indicator that she has a sin on her conscience that she hasn't confessed.
Thanks for sharing your insight, Peter G! Interesting.
@wisefish: partly true: backthen, you weren't supposed to go to communion if you had any un-repented sins. That's why people went to confession on Saturday afternoon.
But you also were supposed to fast from the night before to mass. If you had breakfast, you weren't supposed to go to communion, either.
Brenda #9: This is just FYI, not an argument.
You are still not supposed to go to communion if you have un-repented mortal sins. (Mortal sins being those of a serious nature entered into with full knowledge and consent. These actions willfully separate one from God.)
The fasting rule now applies to only one hour prior to Mass. As always, the elderly and the ill are excepted from the requirement.
I'm an adult convert to the Church. If anyone wants to check up on the rules, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is the best source and it's readily available from bookstores and libraries, probably available online also.
Very good point Brenda. Lack of communion in itself doesn't necessarily denote being in a state of sin (although not participating in it for a length of time might).
My feeling is that it is a combination of things that has made Father Gil decide to focus his healing efforts on Peggy: the Confessional reveeation, ongoing lack of Communion, her evasiveness (beautifully acted by Moss), etc. And a gifted Priest (Gil may or may not be one), like a gifted counselor, can simply "see it" in a person's eyes that they are troubled – smiling, friendly on the outside – and tormented (like Peggy) on the inside.
@Brenda: That makes sense that they would still use the old confessionals at your church, especially for the older communicants and immigrants (Catholic churches outside of the U.S. tend to be a little more traditional in their practices).
@everyone else: Face to face confession has been an option since Vatican II (Second Vatican council, Mid sixties, when everything started change: Mass in english, priest facing congregation, etc. etc. etc.). Most churches now do confession in a room attached to the sanctuary, or in one church I go to they have something that looks like an extra large confessional, only when you go inside it's just a small room, no divider. Usually the priest is seated with his back to the door with a chair or a kneeling bench behind him and a chair in front of him. So you can pick if you want to sit facing him or if you want to keep it anonymous.
As Brenda said, most churches still have the old confessional booths, but many just don't use them, or use them only for the more traditional communicants. And now you can make use of group confessional services, etc.
But of course, sitting in a room doesn't translate as well to film as sitting in a confessional booth with the screen and the mystery and all. And most non-Catholics don't really notice.
I take that back, I think face to face confessions came in a little later than Vatican II, maybe in the 70s? That's what htis article from Time seems to indicate.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,…
but this one from aquinas says it was Vatican II. Anyway, it's been an option for 40-30 years.
http://www.saintaquinas.com/howto_confess.html
Good comments here. You all know your catechism (and your history).
When I was growing up, I was taught that taking Communicn was "a privilege" — but that those who refused it were still in the conversion process, or were abstaining for other reasons. (Fasting was always a part of the pre-Mass rule in our house. Among other reasons, it helped with the food supply to all those little mouths.) I never heard about sin playing a role.
When I was older and had begun to pull away from the Church, I would attend Mass with my family (because I had to) but not take Communion. This was a form of protest. Our parish was always very conservative — didn't offer face-to-face confession until the early '80's — and I hated much of what was said there. I hated having to go. But my parents insisted, because it was their social place, and because they needed help with the younger kids.
They never bothered to fight with me about not taking Communion. I don't think any other parishoners cared, either. It was the kind of church where people noticed what you wore, not what you did.
Even now, my mother reports that the parish remains conservative. She went back once, months ago, and during the homily the priest started railing against what he called "the homosexual agenda". My mom walked out. She has a favorite nephew, my cousin here in town, who is gay. And of course there's my kid, who came out as a lesbian two years ago.
Mom was outraged. "How dare he?" she fumed. "In this day and age. In CALIFORNIA."
Yeah. These days, Mom just lets her freak flag fly.
I think I love your mother.
He's a pain in the tuchus!
@Patti: I could probably use a refresher course! But different parishes had, and still have, different practices. Just in my town alone, we have the conservative church, which follows the Vatican to the letter; the hippie church (aka the student chapel) where it's all guitar mass, all the time; and our church, which is the UN church. Depending on where you go, you learn a variation on a central theme.
When I went overseas to study, my university in the North of England had a progressive Catholic church with a very charismatic priest. There were big student dinners after Mass every Sunday; people would go over there just to talk to Father Stephen.
He seemed like a really good guy; a friend of mine died suddenly that year, and Stephen and Father Daniel really helped me get through that. Good listeners, both of them.
There were always plainclothes nuns around this church, and a bunch of kids who I assumed were in the parish daycare. Later I learned, from one of the nuns, that this was not true.
"These are my children," she told me. She was very proud.
A nun with four children? I needed a moment. I asked her what had happened to their father.
"Why nothing, I'd hope," she laughed. "He's just over there." She pointed him out: Father Stephen.
BLEW MY MIND. But later I learned that most everyone else in the parish seemed to know, and even support this.
There's progressive, and then there's, well … throwing out the rulebook entirely, and starting a little commune. Which it seemed this priest was doing. As I said, I liked him. But I never understood that.
@ Anne: Well, I guess people are free to make their own choices in life, and I do generally support the idea of priests being able to marry and have children, largely because I think it would alleviate a lot of the problems around the shortage of available priests.
BUT, your right, there's progressive and there's throwing out the rule book. I mean, as things stand, if you're going to make a committment to be a priest, or an even greater committment, to be a nun (which is a monastic committment), then you should honor the rules. And if you can't do that, there are lots of christian traditions that do have room for what you're looking for (or you can start your own!).
I hope Weiner's not going to direct us towards some kind of illicit Peggy/preist relationship. Father Gill seems to be too devoted to his job to go down that road, but some of the looks he gives her are awfully longing…..
This is a really interesting discussion. I grew up attending a pretty liberal Congregational church, and had friends who were mostly other flavors of Protestant, so I didn't have much exposure to the Catholic tradition. A lot of what I know comes from my study of ancient history (i.e. the early Christian church(es)). The more recent developments seem to be similar to the evolution of other faiths, while still adhering to centuries of ritual and dogma. It's kind of a strange dynamic (at least, from this outside perspective).
@Julia: Catholic priests were allowed, even expected, to marry until the Middle Ages… sometime in the 14th century, I think.
Oh, and even if he was expected to take an active role in his parishioners' lives, Father Gil still seems much too pushy for my tastes. If he were making romantic overtures (which I'm not saying he is), his behavior would be bordering on stalking. At the very least he's prying into Peggy's affairs when she clearly doesn't want him to.
@Robin: Yeah, we Catholics move slowly. Vatican II was a huge leap forward for the Church, and it was the first big council since Vatican I (1869-1870) and Vatican I was the first big council since hte council of trent, which ended in 1563. So the Church (big C) of the Mad Men era is right on the verge of the biggest shift in practice in the modern era.
For us today, just based on the usual gap between councils, I would expect a lot more adhereing and a lot less evolving for the time being.
And yes, Father Gill is pushy. And what's with the guitar? He reminds me of my CYO camp counselors, only less cool
One note about communion and confession (I'm a very lapsed, basically agnostic, Roman Catholic). It is true that one is not supposed to receive communion if one has unconfessed sins, so Peggy's not taking communion could be a sign of that. As other people have noted, there may be other reasons (e.g., eating breakfast) that she is not taking communion.
However, according to what I was taught, to be a faithful Catholic, one must take communion at least once per year, and during the time period between Ash Wednesday (beginning of lent) and Ascension Thursday (40 days after Easter). It's known as performing one's "Easter Duty."
While the first season of MM was set in the Summer and Fall, this season has been set in the February – springtime period. Therefore, if Peggy has not taken communion in that entire time, it would be a definate sign she is not "right" with the church and God. She is also clearly not simply leaving the church, or she would not attend Mass at all. That may be why Father Gill is so doggedly pursuing her, because she missed what may be the most important requirement for Roman Catholics, but is still attending, so is likely deeply troubled. Of course, we know he knows the truth (or at least part of it, we still don't know what happened to Peggy's son) but he may be using the Easter season as cover for his actions.
When did the priests and nuns start walking away? In the movie Saturday Night Fever, John Travolta's brother ends his priesthood and goes to a halfway house. I remember a friend of my mother's being a former nun. It seemed to make the news when I was little, but I don't remember when. Watching Father Gil, I can't help but think he will be one of those priests.
I apologize for sounding so retarded in #24. I just remember from when I was small that a lot of nuns and priests left their positions in the 60s-70s. I don't remember when it started or when it was at its height. I just remember many popular culture references to it and knowing someone who used to be a nun. I'm not Catholic, so I don't know much about how it all works. I do appreciate this thread to help me figure it out.
I also find Father Gill to be a sympathetic character. I can't wait for the third and final episode concluding this story arc.
CPT_Doom makes a great point about the Easter Duty. Except I thought that you have until Pentecost–guess I will have to go look it up! Either way, I think Gil means well and is sincerely trying to help one of his flock.
Susan M, I think that's a good question.
Father Kevin answered, when I asked this question about five years ago, that nuns in particular seem to have lost a lot of their relevance. He worked at the time in an urban parish, where much of the work that would have traditionally been done by nuns is now done by laypeople.
Kevin said that being a nun or being a priest was more of a common choice in times when remaining single (for whatever reason) was more difficult and less defensible. Now, people may remain happily single for their entire lives. They don't need to choose service roles, like nun or priest, to defend who they are to the rest of society.
By the way, my mom knew a nun and priest in Wisconsin who left their respective roles to marry each other. They ended up having five children. They may have encountered dismay from their congregation in the beginning — but somehow, producing those children redeemed them.
Funny how that works.