Sep 102008
Normally I don’t think the IMDb Mad Men board has much conversational oomph, but I found two fascinating thoughts in one thread.
First, that the book of poems may have been sent to a mentor in the “in between years.” My thought following that was that it could have been sent to the blonde who came looking for Don Draper in The Gold Violin.
The second thought was that Bert Cooper already knew about Don Draper’s past, and that’s why he was so “who cares?” nonchalant. That Cooper was the mentor (not “Teddy”).
30 Responses to “Two amazing speculations”
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Hi Lisa, and welcome!
If he sent it to Rachel, it was before the run-in. So it's still possible, But considering the direction of the season, which seems to imply that we've seen the last of Rachel (though you never know with Weiner), I kind of doubt it.
We've talked a lot here about the possibility of it being Peggy.
Me, I'm ready for anything. I barely try to speculate. Why? Weiner is usually better at giving us what we want than we are.
I was actually working on a table of who Don might have sent the book to — complete with all the reasons why or why not. Of course, it mostly resembles a Mondrian painting — lots of empty white spots, offset by an occasional burst of color. Because really? Who knows with this show. And after Weiner's "Some things go nowhere…" speech, I decided to just let it be. But my list included:
* Rachel
* Peggy
* Midge
* Sarah Tierney or some other former lover
* The Hobo
* If Adam was still alive or Don didn't know about his suicide, then he would have been a prime contender
* Teddy or some other mentor (and for what it's worth, I do think that Bert knew a lot more about Don's past than we were led to believe)
* May (the woman on the train who told him to forget about that boy in the box)
* Some other random person from Dick/Don's past.
I may revisit the table if my time allows, but for now I've decided to just let it be.
THE HOBO!!!!!!
*falls to the ground*
I'm not sure the Hobo left a forwarding address. So my money is on Peggy.
He doesn't even know the hobo's name! (Does he??)
I'm still kind of enamored with it being the "You're not Don Draper" blonde.
WOW Hullaballo … Sendiing the book of poems to the Hobo! What a wonderful inspiration! If this were only true – what a possible great backstory that could be. That the Hobo somehow kept an eye on the little boy (maybe using his Hobo "network"). Maybe helping to guide Don through life – intervening like Catherine's Beast, when Dick-Don was in trouble. As I mentioend in a post a while back, the Hobo was the only positive male figure in Don's life at that point – maybe ever!
I can envision the Hobo – who clearly was educated – getting past his situation and becoming a highly successful person. Maybe the Hobo helped out and guided Dick-Don quietly without ever exposing his persona. Which then leads me to my next crazy thought…
Tying this loony idea and some of the above comments together about Bert Cooper knowing more about Don's past — MAYBE COOPER IS THE HOBO!!!
I would like it to be the blonde as well, because I think it would be interesting (and kind of a relief, which means that it probably won't work out this way) if Don didn't do something terrible to her in the past to keep his secret.
YodaBert loves denaro too much to have ever been the Hobo, IMHO! But with Weiner, anything's possible!
Wow. Kind of love the hobo = BC.
But, no. No way.
My theory with the hobo is that he was really a kind of "My Man Godfrey." In that movie, William Powell is an Ivy League / Wall Street type who gives up everything to live amongst the tramps and hobos at the city dump. He then agrees to be Carole Lombard's butler in hopes of teaching her that there's more to life than the trivial pursuit of material goods. In the end, you discover that he's actually wealthy and very worldly — that he needed that time away to rediscover who he was and what was really important to him.
I'm thinking Don's hobo may have had a similar story — that he had people and resources that he could tap if he needed them. I also think he may have ended up being a kind of protector or benefactor to D/D in the grand tradition of Horatio Alger stories. The Alger stories were all pretty much the same: a young boy struggles to escape a wretched upbringing, only to be assisted along the way by some benefactor who admires the boy's instincts and determination. It's such an American archetype, and in some way shaped so much of American fiction, including stories by Fitzgerald, Twain, and Dreiser. Is it a coincidence that Alger's most popular series of books centered around a character named "Ragged Dick?"
Weiner ought to hire hullaballoo for his writing team.
So, I read the IMDB thread and for the first time was compelled to post here — not only was the Bert Cooper idea a good one, but the poster who said that Don might have sent it to Peggy (as we saw, there is much more to their relationship than first appeared) — I think that is very possible. I hope that’s who he sent it to. The Rachel thing is just not believable anymore given Tilden, the run-in with Bobbie, etc.
@ Peter G #7
- what a possible great backstory that could be. That the Hobo somehow kept an eye on the little boy (maybe using his Hobo “networkâ€). Maybe helping to guide Don through life – intervening like Catherine’s Beast, when Dick-Don was in trouble. As I mentioend in a post a while back, the Hobo was the only positive male figure in Don’s life at that point – maybe ever!
I can envision the Hobo – who clearly was educated – getting past his situation and becoming a highly successful person. Maybe the Hobo helped out and guided Dick-Don quietly without ever exposing his persona.
Magwitch in Dickens' Great Expectations!
The second thought was that Bert Cooper already knew about Don Draper’s past, and that’s why he was so “who cares?†nonchalant. That Cooper was the mentor (not “Teddyâ€).
That's interesting, but it, in retrospect, it takes a lot of the steam out of the climax of Nixon vs. Kennedy. If Don knew that Bert Cooper was aware of his past, then he was taking no chance at all in daring Pete to spill the beans. I prefer thinking that Don was taking a genuine risk at that moment, not knowing for sure how Bert would react. If he knew he was holding all the cards (which I guess is possible. That could be what he meant when he told Pete "you haven't thought this through."), it makes his character less interesting to me.
Velly Intellesting! Melville! WOW. Pip and Magwitch/Povis … gonna have to consider parallels – if any. And… didn't Magwitch also go by the name of CAMPBELL at one point? Yikes!
Mel, upon reflection, I think you’re right. It’s Jon Hamm’s acting that I reflect upon; his raw terror when confronted with his past, the struggle to step forward into the unknown; none of that existed if Coop already knew.
Bert Cooper being the Hobo seems very Twin Peaks to me
I'm not buying the speculation here, but I'm one of those that didn't think Pegs was pregnant either.
Glass, me too.
In fact, I thought that Pete's asking Peggy if she was carrying 'precious cargo' (sorry, can't guarantee the episode, but I'm thinking it was Red in the Face), was a wink from Weiner at the fans who were speculating incorrectly. See how twisted that is? And he was surprised to learn that some people guessed that she was pregnant, so I was way, way wrong. And I am now certain that Weiner doesn't wink like that.
Oh, I agree about the Weiner winks. He also likes to hide things in plain sight. Think about Peggy's pregnancy. At the beginning of the season, everyone was convinced that she was pregnant, but as the show wore on, and there was no mention of it by any of the characters, the audience abandoned the idea as well. So by the time Peggy had the baby, the audience was all WTF?! I think the book will turn out the same way. I think people initially thought he mailed it to Rachel or Midge, but as the season progresses, people are rejecting that idea in the same way they rejected Peggy's pregnancy. It may turn out to be one of those two, but it won't be in a way we expected…
MAYBE COOPER IS THE HOBO!!!
It would be quite something to go from being, not a communist but at least leftward leaning, to an Ayn Rand devotee!
I think he sent the book to Midge. When we entered Don's life, he had a relationship with Midge that seemed like it had been going on for a while. Remember when she said, "I like being your medicine".
Rachel changed his thinking and the course of his life, for better and for worse. I think his feelings for her are very powerful, but I think his relationship with Midge was very real also.
My hunch is that after losing contact with Rachel, he reconnected with Midge, though probably not romantically. She probably never even knew about Rachel.
Peter and Hullabaloo I love your ideas about the Hobo staying in Dick Don's life.
Any thoughts about how they would have stayed in contact when Dick became Don. If Don contacted the Hobo to tell him who and where he was, then the Hobo knows about his persona change.
I don't think Coopers the Hobo — too short
and many other reasons.
Regarding Cooper knowing about Don's past… maybe in looking up Don's employment credentials, Cooper learned that something didn't quite add up. He may have discovered all or part of the story and left it alone, deciding not to confront Don. That may be why he seemed unruffled by the Pete confrontation. Though in general, Cooper's a pretty cool cat under all circumstances.
Okay, I officially disagree. Part of the whole point of the hobo is that he doesn't stay. And as I posted about Don before (somewhere), the influence of the hobo is a lot of why Don is who he is; someone who runs, someone who doesn't stay. The hobo's influence was present when Dick switched dogtags, and was present when he told Rachel he wanted to run away with her, and was present when he sat by the train instead of getting Sally's birthday cake.
The influence; of becoming a better person, but a person who doesn't stick in people's lives, would be totally different if the hobo himself had stuck around. If the hobo had maintained a long term relationship with Don, Don would have a better knowledge of how to do so with other people, like Adam.
first time posting so bear with me…i think i have read through all the postings and am interested in the fact that the speculation about the blonde woman in the car dealership has been so uneventful…(you have entertained and informed me beyond my wildest dreams so THANKS!) my first thought was that she is related to the real don draper…i speculate that shes his daughter….the real don was older and looked as if he could have been d/d's fathers age…thats why she was so absolute about him NOT being don draper…and maybe she did get the book because she is keeping his secret…ahhhh that feels much better…cant wait to see what you think…:)
Deborah, although I posited the hypothetical idea that the Hobo stayed in Don's life, and I had a lot of fun drawing out a story line in my head, and how that could be weaved into Mad Men episodes/seasons in the future… the fact is, I agree with you. I think the Hobo's major psychic and psychological effect on that little boy having such a impact on him for the rest of his life is a MUCH stronger thematic and dramatic line than having him actually be a living mentor (known or unknown). Elements like this are what make Mad Men such a spectacular TV drama. The "living/involved Hobo", although fun to speculate about – would be too predictable and too "I've seen that on TV before" for Mad Men. Subtlety is so much more powerful than Obvious…
Vinyl, welcome. You're doing great!
It’s all just speculation. As you can see, I have a long list of who the recipient might be, and for everyone on that list, there are reasons why Don did as well as why he did not send them the book.
I wonder about the blonde at the car dealership. No way could she have been a wife, sister, or girlfriend, because she would have known instantly that he wasn’t the Don Draper that she knew. At that point, Dick had only assumed the Don Draper persona for about two years. Surely his physical appearance wouldn’t have changed so much in that amount of time where a sister, wife, or girlfriend wouldn’t recognize him.
I think that Don is Peggy's mentor, certainly, but I think theirs is a professional relationship that would not lend to poetry books which is too, um, Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinski.
Ever since that fabulous flashback of Don visiting Peggy in the hospital (in Maidenform?), I feel Don sent the poems to Peggy due to the title: “Meditations in a Crisisâ€. Peggy was certainly in a crisis.
I think Don’s visit to Peggy at St. Mary’s is as good as acting gets, especially Hamm’s appearance & the delivery of the line “it will shock you how much this never happened†{or words to that effect}. Hamm was chilling, ambiguous, yet precise: What exactly did he mean by that? And, yet, we know exactly what he meant. And, Peggy who trusts, admires & is spiritually connected to Don, drinking in his words, learning the reality of the real world.
IMO, that entire scene was so dark and so human, the characters so in need of mercy.