Way to be the first comment, Shelly. You should win a prize… (somehow I'm trying to work 'go see my video and vote for it in as a prize, but I can't quite sell it… plus I think you already voted).
Honestly, I cannot freaking wait for tonight's episode.
I had the weirdest thought today. When Harry and his wife went to Paul's party, was Hildy attending? Did Harry tell his wife that Hild was the woman he slept with? Also, Pete's and Harry's wives are friends. Thay chat on the phone. Hildy is Pete's secretary. Surely it spilled over somewhere?
Would Harry had told his wife Hildy's name? I know if I found out my husband had slept with one of the secretaries, I would not be comfortable with him seeing her at work.
Jennifer looked miserable at the party, so maybe she was looking around to try to work out who Harry slept with. I'm sure Harry spilled his guts completely. He keeps doing that.
That would be another storyline they could follow. Just saw an ad for the new Starter Wife show. Looking forward to it. Man some major stuff on L&O Criminal Intent. Bobby's real father is a serial killer, major stuff for any fans.
Evening, all. I'll be offline during the show, as usual.
Patti, Jennifer doesn't appear to be having an easy pregnancy, I kind of thing it was that, plus the whole "Bohemian" thing, that made her look so uncomfortable.
Funny story, Ellelque: My mother (who was born in 1935, and almost never drinks) had a bit too much wine one holiday, and started mocking my conscientious high school boyfriend for leaving his car to walk home instead of driving: "Pshht… Back when I was young, there was none of this 'drunk driving' nonsense… You hit someone, you move them to the side of the road, and pin a note saying 'So sorry!' to their chest… *hiccup*".
Wow! Let's see—Joan's engaged, Pete's testicles are just fine, Rachel is now Mrs. Katz, Bobbie's still the same old, same old, Don and Bobbie were in a wreck, and Peggy is who Don knows he can rely on. How is he going to 'splain the wrecked car to Betty? Stay tuned.
I'll check in at the next commercial.
Oh, the radio was playing Theme from A Summer Place when Don and Bobbie were driving to the beach.
Hmm, so did Anita miscarry or what? I actually almost sort of liked Bobbie in that scene. Do I need medication for that? LOL!
Anyway, loved the flashback scene and hope we see more of that if not tonight, then in the coming weeks.
Don's new secretary is a real looker.
I guess Freddy Rumsen is just sitting in his office figuring out songs to play on his zipper. LOL! It was dumb but funny.
I thought Rachel said her last name was Katz now. Did I hear wrong? Isn't Bobbie's last name Barrett?
Think Peggy is gonna Bobbie up in the future. Maybe dress sexier in the office?
No. Joan already tried all this on her last season. Peggy is vastly too wised up for any of this crap. Note her tone when she said to Bobbie "Is that what you did?" And of course Bobbie is far too dense to know she was being insulted.
Excellent Ms. D! Okay who was Pete talking to in that sexy voice when he asked the person to turn around? Jane? Could you imagine if Peggy catches him trying to seduce Don's new gal friday.
I don't mean to sound dense but does Don not know the reason Peggy was in the hospital? He did give her the Dick Whitman advice….to forget "it" ever happened. Loved how she called him Don instead of Mr. Draper. The look on his face was great, very subtle, but you saw the tiniest little quizzical look when she called him that.
I'm not sure whether Peggy is calling Don "Don" because of what Bobbie said ("act as if you're equals"), or to let him know that this was done out of personal friendship.
I think he knows, Jan W. It seems like since she would not say it aloud, he was being gentlemanly in not calling her on it directly, while still communicating he knew. It wasn't giving her an Easter Egg, but still.
I don’t mean to sound dense but does Don not know the reason Peggy was in the hospital? He did give her the Dick Whitman advice….to forget “it†ever happened.
I'm not sure. I think he knows, but in the end he believes in Bert Cooper's wisdom: "Who cares?"
Hey folks! I had to focus during the broadcast tonight…lots of goodies.
Damn!! When Rachel showed up! Don's face showed more consternation than usual – but with a hint of vulnerability, which was well done. He's so not over her. Bobbie sussed it, I am surprised that she didn't say anything to Don about who Rachel was. Guess it's all about Bobbie.
I thought that the scenes with Bobbie and Peggy were brilliant – and Bobbie was humanized a bit – I liked her better than usual, though the subtle sparring between Peggy and her was terrific.
I also liked the scene with Pete and the doctor – he was honest, and let his guard down – and then was back to being a dickwad, particularly in the ending scenes with Trudy.
When Trudy said "What is all this for?" referring to having the baby, but I also heard her saying "What else do I have?" Pete has his work and his 'status and self-worth' but Trudy doesn't have the options, she's just sitting around waiting for her life to start, seemingly.
"Pick a job and then become the person that does it." Good one, Bobbie – I guess this is what attracts Don to her, same wavelength there.
I love how Peggy addressed Don as 'Don' at the end – taking Bobbie's advice, eh? Should be interesting to see how that plays out!
hmmm…oh the flashbacks to Peggy!!!!! I was so waiting for those – and Don visiting her and saying what he said about 'going forward'. Wow.
each episode gets better and better in delivering some information and sustaining the anticipation.
loved the dialogue between bobbi and peggy.
and the flashbacks of Peggy in St. Mary's. WOW. i am left with even more questions since it shows her sister pregnant. and further, how Don ends up finding her, finding out about her situation and the advice he gives her. has he a soft spot for her or does he think shes really just a girl friday?
I like Peggy saying 'this can be fixed' – especially resonant now that we know what Don said to her when she was in the hospital.
Melville – "I’m not sure whether Peggy is calling Don “Don†because of what Bobbie said (â€act as if you’re equalsâ€), or to let him know that this was done out of personal friendship."
Maybe I'm thinking in a too linear way, but I do think it's because of what Bobbie said – then again, Peggy's smart, it's probably been incubating for some time, and perhaps what Bobbie said just helped her ideas manifest.
I liked the 'no salt' thing at the end, I found it sweet – though Betty is such a rollercoaster, my sympathies for her fluctuate. Too little Betty in this episode, for my tastes regardless.
I think Don senses Peggy's decency and integrity. I mean she is one of the only people around his office that he works with that has any. He feels protective of her, like a good mentor.
Don said that he was told Peggy had TB and was quarantined – but the rest of the group doesn't appear to know that (fat farm comment from earlier ep) – I wonder what they were told?
And Don obviously sees through that lie – he cuts right to the chase about it.
I wonder if Anita thinks that Don is the married man. How did she find out about the married man at all? I can't see Peggy confiding in her ass. But, I can see a nurse or doctor telling of Don's visit…since all the medical professionals back then like to talk…alot.
I loved this episode. I've always said that Don and Peggy were strongly connected, and this episode proved it. I knew that Don was going to call Peggy. I thought the flashbacks were great. I had suspected that Don had covered for Peggy, thus starting the rumor that he knocked her up. Peggy is starting to take Bobbie's advice, it was the first time she call him Don. I couldn't beleive it.
I was surprised that Joan planned to work after marraige. I thought her whole goal was to get married, quit her job, and move to the suburbs.
I thought it was interesting that we could got to see Rachel's story wrapped up-she married a nice doctor her father approved of. I had a question about Don's new secretary: Is she Jewish? Seigal is a fairly common Jewish name. It could be that Sterling Cooper has just its first Jew in a position more senior than mail room clerk.
It was great seeing the double standard out in force-Joan telling Jane that it is a place of work, undercut by the Mozart zipper.
When Peggy was in her apartment talking to Bobbie, some of her lines sounded like things Don would say.
I'm really curious to see the effect Bobbie's advice has on Peggy.
Well, she could have told him he died. But, I bow to you, Ms. Darkly, you are one of my favorite posters. I also love Kay the wannbe Don toy. You make my Sunday nights even better.
I wonder if Anita thinks that Don is the married man. How did she find out about the married man at all? I can’t see Peggy confiding in her ass. But, I can see a nurse or doctor telling of Don’s visit…since all the medical professionals back then like to talk…alot.
No, you make a good point Ms. Golighty. Of course, she was drugged — maybe she told the doctors that, and they told her people. And saying he died, what are the chances?
I think the death excuse leads to more questons/wanting to see an obit, etc.
I almost cried during that scene with Don and Peggy at the hospital. And again, when it came up in the "Inside Mad Men" clip. And now, thinking about it. What an amazing episode.
I especially enjoyed tonight's episode "The New Girl." This was an exceptional episode! I thought the opening sequence with Pete, Trudy and the doctor was exceptionally funny, especially when the doctor was asking Pete all those "intimate" questions. I thought the reaction on Pete's face was priceless. I have to give kudos to Vincent Kartheiser and Alison Brie. They really work hard with their characters and they were so fantastic in tonight's episode.
I felt really happy for Joan, knowing she's going to be married soon, but felt a little bad for Roger. I always liked seeing Roger/Joan together. The new girl who is working alongside Joan was so good. I loved the scene when the welcome wagon came to say hello to the new girl and the whole introduction scene Paul, Ken, and Harry. Fantastic!
I have to single out Jon Hamm and Elisabeth Moss especially with their characters in tonight's episode. I did not know who would come to Don's rescue but I was so glad that it was Peggy. She really respects Don and how he helped her out in the first season, so I was so glad Peggy came to help both Don and Bobbi tonight. I really enjoyed the Don/Peggy scenes and also the flashback scene of Peggy's stay in the hospital, as well as the Bobbi/Peggy banter in Peggy's apartment. I thought Melidna McGraw did a great job tonight! Both Jon Hamm and Elisabeth Moss were so outstanding, and I cannot wait to see what will happen in the future episodes to come.
All in all, it was another outstanding episode as always. Mad Men continues to excel with the best writing and excellent peformances by the cast. Fantastic!!!
Err, that's the Ketel One talking, folks. Of course he's a person worthy of dignity and respect. Yup, yup. Dignity and respect. He needs to make me some damn money.
Peggy is smart enough to see Bobbie for what she is, and filter out what advice is worth taking. She knows the whole "be a woman" line for what it is (She tried that and ended up pregnant,) but she also knows that she should stand up for herself. But she also wants to be a decent person, to be loyal to Don because of what he did for her, not just out of office politics and her own ambitions. I loved the exchange when Bobbie says "He really is a decent man, isn't he," and Peggy answers "I never expected him to be anything other than what he is."
What makes Don and Peggy the protagonists of the show is how their motives are mixed, yet they try to walk a moral line as best they can see it.
I also loved the Bobbi/Peggy scenes. Interestingly Bobbi had a better idea on the reality of Marilyn Monroe. I think Peggy does not want to look to deep at anything right now. It is part of what makes her and Don so alike. And they both knew what he said to her in the hospital was a lie. If anything that is kind of a theme of this season.
And whose baby is that? Maybe Peggy's died shortly after birth and Anita's is just a loaded reminder. THe Doctors were worried about her not only acknowledging the pregnancy, but not expressing remorse over its death. Or Anita's died and they took in
And I also think Peggy will take Bobbi's advice, only in her own way. Calling him "Don" was a start. And I would like to see dress more comfortably. Admit ambition, not let the guys exclude her, etc.
That scene with Don and Betty: so he still is not into opening up to her, but that was a very good lie.
I wish Joan the best in her upcoming nuptials, but could she really have been that stupid about Roger? Of course he hates the institution. He complains more of Margaret, the fruit of the union, than Mona.
Yes Pete is still an insensitive ass. In the two years the show has covered he has not learned anything about tact. I hated how Trudy kept apologizing though. It was king of painful to watch. I wanted to tell her "stop apologizing, you have nothing to be sorry for."
Off target, but I am wasting time until show starts (although tonights L&O Criminal Intent is excellent, Nicole is back to torment Bobby)
Has anyone ever been to the site Post Secret? It is a really cool site and people send their darkest secrets anonymously on a postcard. This site post them every Sunday. Very thought provoking.
It was all great. Love the subtle touches, like theme from "A Summer Place" playing in the car while Don and Bobbie were on the way to the beach. The original movie was about forbidden love between two people, at the beach. BTW, does anyone know if the new episode will run next Sunday, or if it will just be the 5 episode marathon and the new episode runs the next Sunday (two weeks from now)?
I thought it’s Peggy’s baby, and Anita’s faking it to spare the family shame? (Of course, secrecy doesn’t seem to be her forte since she goes yammering about it to the priest…)
"You'll be SHOCKED by how much it never happened."
Line of the season, and one of the defining lines of "Draper's" character so far.
This episode did a really great job of hitting on some of the core themes of the series.
-With Pete and Trudy's story line, you get the whole "what is the point of all of this?" angle, and people starting to question why they're doing things just because they're expected to. I certainly wasn't around in the 60s (far from it), but maybe this shift towards a more existential outlook on life is all building up to the social changes that happen in the latter part of the decade. So if the show is touching upon this kind of stuff early on to lead up to that, then that could have the potential for some great material.
-With Don/Bobbie/Peggy, you get the covering up of lies/putting on a facade element. Bobbie's great line about (paraphrasing) picking what you want and then becoming the person that does it sums it up nicely, and is a fascinating and surprisingly accurate observation on life itself when you really think about it. And of course, the hospital flashback (didn't a lot of people on this blog see that one comin'?) is one of the instantly classic moments of the series thus far.
I find myself haunted by Don's line that I posted above. It keeps repeating in my head since the episode ended.
There was no HIPPA back then. Chances are Don got the info out of a nurse or someone else. They wouldn’t just allow anyone to visit her there. I think he knew.
New Girl:
Let’s see — Don has a new girl/secretary and Don basically told Peggy to make a new start/forget about the past. Peggy also acts with a new confidence.
Rachel went from Don to that twit! Guess a woman had to move on, but to that corny guy?
That corny guy is from the same world, and will not lie to her, cheat on her or conceal things from her. No way is she attracted to ‘dashing’ anymore. It scares the crap out of her.
Betty hid the sugar from her diabetic father. She mothers. It’s annoying.
About the baby–from the flashbacks at the beginning, in voiceover Peggy says that she can make her own decisions, and Anita fires back, "The State of New York didn't think so." Could this be a clue that Peggy's child has been taken away from her likely because of her mental breakdown? Putting an illegitimate child up for adoption isn't farfetched.
While I don't see Peggy wanting to keep the child at all–since she didn't even realize the pregnancy was happening–having her own child taken away might explain how awkward she is around the baby in her sister's house, even if that baby is Anita's. We were so led to believe that Anita was raising Peggy's baby. It would make it even nastier about what Anita said in confession. She senses the priest's interest in Peggy, and so she makes sure to kamikaze any esteem the priest has for her sister.
I can see Peggy telling people the father was married, and leaving it at that, because that might be the only thing that could convince people that he was out of the picture and ineligible for a shotgun wedding.
“Are you still trying to say thank you?†Peggy is fantastic.” (Melville)
Yes, and I saw it as a natural progression from the line from season one when Peggy said to Joan “I just realized something. You think you’re being helpful.”
Laura (yes, I’m still up, but I HAVE TO SLEEP) I thought the same thing. She actually understood that Bobbi was trying to be helpful; she ran it through her filter on the spot. She understands that she must consider the source, but I do think dealing with Joan helped her deal with Bobbi. e. however we spell it.
BTW, timeline-wise, I think we can put this episode at May 14-18, 1962.
Eighteen months since Pete and Trudie started conceiving takes us from 11/60 to 5/62, which also fits Pete’s statement about it being a couple of months since his father died. (Actually, now that I’m thinking about it, he might have said “a few months,” which we’d have to chalk up to him underplaying the whole event.)
Bobbie says that Marilyn Monroe was supposed to be at Madison Square Gardens “this Saturday”, which would be the occasion of her famous “Happy Birthday, Mr. President” song. That happened on May 19, 1962, and the day after Don stops eating salt at dinner.
Peggy is the female version of Don. Both are smart, careful with responses and aware of their public image. Most important, they both take opportunities when they see them.
Peggy is a smart cookie. She absorbs everything — all advice — and uses it. Remember Episode 1 when she put her hand on Don’s on her first day in the office, as to suggest she was open for a relationship? She knew if that’s what it took, she would do it.
Also, had to look up La Notte after Don mentioned it in the car. I haven’t seen it, but it seems to deal with a married couple who tires of each other.
Just one nitpick, the only one I have for this episode (truly the most satisfying so far in this season for me, the others have had an oddly disjointed feel to them…):
Stony Brook is on the north shore/Long Island Sound side of Lawn Guyland. Granted, I've never been there at night and maybe the tides do change, but the Sound is overall a rather calm body of water, with gently lapping waves, no "From Here to Eternity"-style crashing waves that Bobbi was describing in her Don on the Beach scenario.
There was a Roberta at the Sunday supper table last week, the meal that Father Gil did not stay for. So there absolutely best not be a Roberta in Bobbie Barrett's… anything. Barbara. Although that's right back with Rachel's sister.
Y'know, Don did have that 'we're gonna deliver a stillborn' line for the AA pitch. It is possible that Anita's baby died and she's raising Peggy. Oh, so much craziness!
Fantastic episode, stuffed with so much. nice special appearance by Rachel.
The lines that made me laugh:
“I love comedians!” (delivered perfectly by an actor in a bit part)
“If you’re not hunting for a dead file, I suggest you go pitch your tents elsewhere.”
“Are you still trying to say thank you?”
The lines that just cut to the bone:
“This can be fixed.” (Peggy, in the car) Left unsaid: “my situation could not/cannot.”
“It will shock you how much you can forget.” (Don)
It’s interesting how they managed to humanize Bobbie and show us another angle, but not make it totally false. You see how her ball-breaking, unpleasant negotiation style in her very first scene with Don on the set in “the Benefactor” is more of a “business persona.”
Great scene when Peggy called Don by his first name at the end.
Verrry interesting how they showed Anita being pregnant! I wonder – is that baby that Anita is rearing or Peggy’s? Anita’s pregnancy is definitely related to Peggy’s situation, but it’s unclear how — thinking back to all S-2 scenes, we’ve been led to assume the baby is Peggy’s, but I don’t think there’s ever been explicit reference to the baby.
Anyone else think the “no salt†scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!†in its blatantness.
I didn't see it that way at all; in fact, I completely missed the metaphor for blandness. I saw it as the value of family life. "What is all this for?" It's so someone cares about your blood pressure, about whether you live or die. Don looks at this family scene and loves it, and wishes he could find it in himself to be made happy by it.
But "running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!â€" is now my favorite way ever to describe obviousness.
Madwoman: Maybe Anita lost her child and took on Peggy’s to help soothe the loss. I don’t know. That’s why it’s so hard to totally judge any character in this show as we don’t always know all the facts and the next episode may change our opinion.
I loved tonight’s episode, but I do have a nitpick.
They’re fucking with us in the names department. It’s bad enough that we have a Bobby Draper and a Bobbie Barrett. But in FTWTY, Betty’s friend Juanita called her Betsy Hofstadt, although last season we were introduced to Betty’s father, who is Gene Driscoll (check the credits for Long Weekend). Then Trudy mentions a friend named Sarah Driscoll. Next we meet Rachel and her new husband Tilden Katz. But in the credits for Babylon, they list Rachel’s sister as Barbara Katz. That’s way too many people in the same universe with the same name. I know these names aren’t terribly uncommon, but it’s not like any of them are called Smith or Jones either. For a show that prides itself on the details, that’s kind of sloppy…and somewhat confusing.
Hullaballoo–
do not underestimate the intentionality of the creators of this show. “Betsy Hofstadt”: Juanita knew her as a model–it’s more than possible that Betty used a different last name (not to mention a different variant of her first name) for her “professional” name. Betty’s mother did not approve of her being a model–she equated it with being a prostitute (even more interesting thought given this context.) It’s already been mentioned here that Rachel could have married her brother-in-law’s brother, which would just emphasize how far in the other direction she ran from the likes of Don.
I have to admit, this was the first time I really liked Peggy. And Bobbie's advice to her was excellent. I'm finding Bobbie intriguing, although she's been difficult to warm up to as a character. She's not your typical woman you love to hate in the vein of Alexis Carrington or Erica Kane, but she is fascinating — degenerate, but fascinating. She has a definite Barbara Stanwyck vibe, so I can see how she comes across as harsh.
The name issue continues to baffle me. I'll allow that Betty went by an alias while she was modeling, but Hofstadt? Not your typical stage name — particularly so soon after World War II. Would anyone have deliberately chosen something so German-sounding then?
Turns out Tilden Katz was the blind date that Barbara was trying to arrange for Rachel in Indian Summer. It also appears that Barbara's name was changed from Katz to Zax in that episode…which is still too many z's for one family.
Usually I love plot twists, especially if I don't see them coming, but I have to admit I feel a little dicked around by them showing Anita pregnant. I have nothing against red herrings, but the actual truths should be more likely, not some bizarre coincidence, especially one that is uber convenient for the heroine.
Then again, it could have been Anita faking a pregnancy in order to adopt Pete Jr. I officially put nothing past this show anymore.
I DO like that they have answered a bunch of questions, only to add 15 more. In a way we know less than we did last week. Whose baby is it? How much did Don know? How deep was Peggy's denial?
Lots to love in this epi, tho. I laughed out loud when the segued from Pete and the porn mags to Roger playing with the ball on a string toy. (I had one of those.)
Anyone else think the “no salt” scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!” in its blatantness.
Don did have that ‘we’re gonna deliver a stillborn’ line for the AA pitch. It is possible that Anita’s baby died and she’s raising Peggy.
And at the end of last season we know that Peggy’s baby survived and if Anita is raising Peggy’s baby as her own the resentment could be partly over the fact that Peggy’s survived while her’s didn’t…we’ll see.
I don’t know if anyone saw this yet, but one of my friends alerted me that they held the Season 2 Wrap Party last night in LA. There are photos up at wireimage.com.
Kind of makes me sad that they’ve wrapped already. I want them to film forever… you know with the occassional vacation in there so they can rest a bit.
But at least we get 13 amazing episodes in the season.
A few things made this episode fantastic! First, Rachel Menken Katz! I knew she’d make Don’s life messy if she returned, but had no idea he’d be “messed up”–literally! Second, Mrs. Unfunny Comic rocks! Third, dammit, Don! Can you be any more appealing as a faithless, sexy bastard who mentors ambitious young ladies? Finally, minimal SAB!!! The less whine, the better!
She knows the whole “be a woman†line for what it is (She tried that and ended up pregnant,) but she also knows that she should stand up for herself. But she also wants to be a decent person, to be loyal to Don because of what he did for her, not just out of office politics and her own ambitions.
Interesting, very interesting. I also took Bobbie’s like to mean that Peggy is clearly not someone who can out-muscle men on their own terms, so she can’t play the game exactly as they do (hence the “no one told me there was a meeting” shot in the intro), but she should still play it using whatever strengths she does have – an echo of Joan’s advice from the pilot. You’re right that Peggy failed at being a “Joan,” but she succeeded at being the surprising girl – the one who came up with great stuff when you wouldn’t expect it. She’s an outsider, a Brooklyn woman in a room full of Manhattan men, not unlike her sort-of mentor, Don Draper.
Whether it’s subconscious or not, I think Don sees a lot of himself in Peggy. She is not from the right background to get ahead (albeit a bit better than being a dead prostitute’s kid), but she’s doing it anyway, with her own version of drive and determination (if a bit grimmer version than Don’s). She even has the emotional trauma at a young age, just like Dick/Don. Even before he found out about her secret, he was gently encouraging her – the whole “think about it very deeply, then let it go” (paraphrasing) advice, which was a brilliant description of a creative process. He certainly didn’t cover for a three-month absence and a stay in a mental ward (there is no way Don does not know exactly where she is when he visits) just because she came up with some good lipstick copy. I think she’s the first new employee at Sterling Cooper that Don ever saw as similar to himself. That she’s a woman is just another sign of the social eruptions about to take place.
So I really liked how Peggy stepped up her game at the end of the episode (she is so my favorite character now). AND she did it in her own subtle way. She was not just getting the $$ back, she was gently reminding Don that they are now linked in a web of covering for each other. She was not threatening like Pete did in Season one, but I think she was clearly indicating she was going to use her more complex relationship with “Don” to her own advantage. If I’m not mistaken, she had a slight shift in her clothes as well – a little more modern and flattering, but not overtly sexual. Peggy’s evolving into a mini-Gloria Steinem
Some other thoughts on the episode – How smug did Rachel look when she spotted Bobbie? The irony was perfect – Mr. Katz is no Don, but Bobbie is no Rachel either, and Mrs. Katz knows it. There was a great look of “you so traded down, buddy” when she talked to Don.
Anita’s baby – so maybe Peggy’s baby was given up for adoption, and Anita was also pregnant. Which means Fr. Gill may have made a hugely incorrect assumption when he dropped that egg on poor Peggy last week. We clearly were led to belive the little blond boy is Peggy’s, but he could just be a nephew (damn you Weiner!). The only problem with that theory is, why would Anita want Peggy to say good night to her kids (as she did the first time we visited Brooklyn), if the baby is not Peggy’s?
Oh, and I give Pete and Trudy about 5 more years, tops. Could he be more insensitive?
**Anyone else think the “no salt†scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!†in its blatantness.**
I'm going to agree with you, Tom. I'm sure Betty did mean it lovingly, but to Don I think it would be more reason to not want to be there, emasculating, making his home less of his castle, etc.
@CPT_Doom: I think when Peggy was in the hospital for all that time, Marjorie made other arrangements. Don said he called Peggy's home and the roommate said to call her mother. Peggy must have moved home for a while and then when Peggy was ready to move out, she was kinda Fuck It about finding a new roomie.
@Ms. D: I disagree about the salt thing feeling emasculating to Don. He called her "Bets." It was the first time in a long time we've heard him sound quite that homey with her. "Awww, Bets" sounds sweet to my ears.
If Peggy’s baby died/or supports the theory that there was some sibling rivalry. I could see something unspoken like this making slight annoyances much worse. But I will stop speculating now.
I loved the encounter with Rachel. No wonder Don went with Bobbi; if you can’t be with the one you love, screw around with the one you’re with.
@ ihavesmokeinmyeyes #302 “You’ll be SHOCKED by how much it never happened.†I find myself haunted by Don’s line that I posted above. It keeps repeating in my head since the episode ended.
Don believes that line to his very soul. He HAS to. And Peggy is trying to believe it, too. How much they can manage to believe it, and try to make it true (probably an impossibility, but they’re going to try) will define them.
@Kay and Jan, I too found myself liking Bobbie this episode. Never thought that’d happen! (o: I really liked how she pointed out to Peggy that what she was doing was worth a lot — i.e., she shouldn’t undervalue herself.
I also *kinda* liked Pete.
Oh, and regarding Anita being “old” to be pregnant — my mom was 45 when I was born. No fertility drugs or anything. Way back in the’60s. But I’m curious now about the baby she was carrying in that scene.
@Deborah, I agree about the salt. I think it’s more that Don knows he should be happy with the fact that he is loved and that he loves his family (in spite of his philandering), but it simply isn’t fulfilling him.
@Ellelque, I do think Clooney is dumb, but it’s just my opinion, as others, including you, express theirs on this blog. To each his own.
Finally, I think my favourite moment in this episode was when Peggy called Don, “Don”. Bobbie’s influence!
@CPT_Doom #318 So I really liked how Peggy stepped up her game at the end of the episode (she is so my favorite character now). AND she did it in her own subtle way. She was not just getting the $$ back, she was gently reminding Don that they are now linked in a web of covering for each other. She was not threatening like Pete did in Season one, but I think she was clearly indicating she was going to use her more complex relationship with “Don†to her own advantage. If I’m not mistaken, she had a slight shift in her clothes as well – a little more modern and flattering, but not overtly sexual. Peggy’s evolving into a mini-Gloria Steinem
That’s how I’m seeing it, too, or at least I hope that’s what’s happening. I’d hate for Don to see it as Peggy beginning to turn on him. Their relationship has a basis of mutual trust. What was it that Peggy said about trust while driving him and Bobbie, right before she said “this can be fixed?” Some thing about “I need for you to trust me?” Can’t remember exactly.
LOL, you could be right. I'm just thinking about where he was last year — eating and drinking whatever pleased him. And unsalted food is a sad, sad thing.
I can understand where he might be touched, but can he live this way?
Just a few observations on The New Girl which I found the best episode of season 2 so far. I kept hoping Rachel would come back into Don’s life as I thought she was one of the more positive characters, but I sort of feel she will disappear now with her new husband. There still seem to be sparks between her and Don, so maybe she will return.
I agree with Andrea that Don and Peggy are similar. I was trying to figure out why Don called Peggy when he ended up in jail — then we had the flashback where Don visits her at St. Mary’s hospital and it all made sense. I expect to see a lot more about their relationship. Loved her calling him Don.
I have previously loathed Bobbie Barrett but I sensed she was being somewhat humanized in this episode. I still hope she doesn’t become a fixture.
Trudy and Pete — if Trudy doesn’t have children, there will be nothing in her life — she will have no reason for existence. In her mind her life will be totally empty. Clearly Pete wants to be the child in this marriage — how would he deal with sharing Trudy with a real child?
To me, Mad Men is the most enigmatic show I have seen since Twin Peaks. The Anita pregnancy opens up so many questions. Back story is slowly being revealed.
I will add that I live in Manhattan right across the street from the old Madison Square Gardens where Marilyn Monroe sang Happy Birthday to JFK — the building was demolished and replaced by a complex known as World Wide Plaza. However there are old timers in the neighborhood who remember the famous birthday party.
There was a great look of “you so traded down, buddy†when she talked to Don.
A look of “you haven’t changed,” I think. He’s still a married man, still philandering. He told Rachel he loved her, that he wanted to be with her, and a woman having an affair wants to believe it’s a unique situation, not that the guy is just a habitual cheater. Rachel and Don in this episode parallel Joan and Roger; both realize that these are just men who cheat, not men who cheat only in special and unique circumstances that somehow justify it.
As viewers and blog posters try to unravel the mystery of Peggy's child/ Anita being pregnant/ hospital flashback clues; we must remember that Anita being shown pregnant happened during Peggy's flashback about her connection to Don.
We have been shown that Peggy "disconnected" from her pregnancy and the resulting child.
Don: "Why are you here?"
Peggy: "I don't know."
If we are to believe the final scene of the first season, when the nurse brought the baby boy in to Peggy and she turned away, then we are to assume the child lived.
But after denying her pregnancy for it's full term, and not having the child afterward, Peggy must somehow "forget" it ever happened, like Don told her to.
In the first flashback from "The New Girl", we must remember it is a flashback AS SEEN FROM PEGGY'S PERSPECTIVE. The main purpose of the flashback is to establish her connection to Don, to explain her trip to the Police Station and taking in Bobbie Barrett for convalesence.
As she lies in the hospital bed, with the doctor talking to her, it's completely possible that she, AND ONLY SHE sees Anita as being pregnant. That might be the coping mechanism that her mind has established, to allow her to move on from this, as Don told her to.
In her "new" reality, she was never pregnant, she has moved on. When her mother and sister came to visit her, it was Anita who was almost 9 months pregnant, it was Anita who gave birth, and the young, blonde boy is Anita's- according to Peggy's created reality, after "moving forward".
The series has already established that all flashbacks do not mirror reality.
Don ended Season 1 with a Normal Rockwell flash-forward of a Happy Thanksgiving trip with his family, only to come home to an empty house.
Maybe Anita being pregnant is just how Peggy chooses to remember what happened. Just an idea.
However, the Thankgiving scene was a fantasy and not a flashforward, and instantly shown to be such. So, it wasn't a subjective view of reality, or reality with one detail amiss, but a complete fabrication.
Anyhow, I like the scenario you present, even though it opens up more questions.
In the first episode of season 2 when Peggy was visiting her mom and sister, when Peggy went to leave her sister says, “don’t you want to say hello”. Peggy opens the door and there’s two cribs, each with one baby, so her sister’s baby did survive, and her mother is raising Peggy’s baby. I am confused as why there was only one baby when they were at church in the second episode, maybe they don’t want to have both in public at the same time?
Boweed, interesting scenario, but I would find it surprising to see MM working that way. So very "So Long, Farewell, and Good Luck" if you know what I mean.
In the first flashback from “The New Girlâ€, we must remember it is a flashback AS SEEN FROM PEGGY’S PERSPECTIVE. ..
As she lies in the hospital bed, with the doctor talking to her, it’s completely possible that she, AND ONLY SHE sees Anita as being pregnant. That might be the coping mechanism that her mind has established, to allow her to move on from this, as Don told her to.
Sorry, Bow, but that is too far-fetched. There was nothing about the style of the flashback to indicate it was in any way a distortion; it is stylistically consistent with every other flashback in the series, none have which have been subsequently revealed to be a false or twisted memory.
Deborah, I agree; I'm pretty sure it's the same apartment. I was trying to compare shots of Peggy's room in this season to some from last season, and they could be the same, just with a better paycheck to throw in a little decor and some lights. It is hard to say though, based on my comparison, but your scenario sounds plausible.
I am not bothered by the name thing so much, because, as I said, we are confused by names that appeared in credits, not in the show. They have never contradicted themselves between two names that aired. I’m not sure how much attention is paid to those credited names.
Plus, Barbara and Rachel marrying relatives would not be unheard of. My (our) grandparents actually met at a family reunion: Nana’s brother was married to Papa’s cousin. It was very important for Jews to meet and marry other Jews, and there’s still a lot of the shtetl in a lot of these communities in New York.
It would take a lot to get me to like Bobbie, but one thing made me begin to feel sorry for her: The exchange where she asked if Peggy was in love with Don, then asked if Peggy wanted to know if she (Bobbie) was in love with him. If Bobbie is actually in love with Don, poor her. She was obviously too drunk to register it when Don said “I don’t feel a thing” while they were driving.
Re-reading the comments, I realize I completely misquoted Don’s “You’ll be shocked” line. Ah, well. My main point was the emotional impact that line made.
I agree that Peggy looks slightly different in the last scene. She’s wearing a straight skirt, not a poufy one. She’s also wearing a more professional-looking blouse – is this the last of the round collars? Much more business-like.
I could swear that there was only one baby in the crib in that bedroom in Flight 1, when Anita asks “aren’t you going to say goodnight?” There were two other kids, both in beds: one was sleeping, and the other said “hi Aunt Peggy.”
The new girl could refer to any number of women: Jane Segal, Peggy, Bobbie (in the context of replacing Rachel). That Jane is rather craven – flashing the guys, asking Ken point-blank for his title. Do I smell a gold-digger?
Man, as much as Roger is a skunk and a child who can’t face his own mortality, he sure is funny. That paddleball scene was hilarious. I had one of those toys!
The only explanation I would be willing to accept is that Anita faked a pregnancy and took in Peggy's baby. I don't remember if there were two babies in the crib or not, if there was an older baby it would be more plausible that Anita had a young child before. The idea that she was coincidentally pregnant at the same time as Peggy is just irritating and more worthy of a soap opera script than MM's intriguing writing.
Something that struck me as odd was Bobbi calling Peggy young and pretty, was that a clever way of saying young and naive??? Peggy is a lot of things but pretty is not an adjective that comes to mind. Or is Bobbi merely envying Peggy's youth and to her being young is synonymous with pretty?
One thing that I loved that Bobbi said was "choose a job and become the person that does it" That is the best business advice I have ever heard. Isn't that what Harry the head of the TV department did, although he could have carried it a lot further.
I am hoping Peggy will take the "Be a woman" advice to mean she should dress better. It would be great to see her dressing like the other business women on the show – Bobbi and Rachel.
What does everyone think of Peggy's relationship with her mother. I find it strange. Anita is always struggling for her mother's and everyone else's approval, while Peggy who doesn't value it so readily receives it.
Did anyone else notice the “be in touch with your body” poster in the fertility doctor’s office? Not being in touch with your body, (and through that your spirit), is one of the major reoccurring theme of the whole series. Peggy’s pregnancy is the most obvious one. Roger crying that he did everything right to avoid a heart attack though everything we see him do is heart attack baiting, comes close, (and given what MW has said in interviews about Peggy’s pregnancy, I believe that he sees the two as very similar).
I did not see two babies in the crib on Flight 1. splashofme has that clip up on youtube, for whoever wants to check it out.
A couple of bits of dialog really struck me this episode:
Peggy relating the story of the little boy who died after falling off the swings seemed to have particular significance. She became a little melancholy when she told that story, I thought, which was weird because she hasn’t shown much emotion when talking about children. I’m wondering if an accident such as that happened to one of the babies?
Then there was the whole discussion of “business” between Don and his paramours/business associates, which may or may not relate back to the themes of prostitution that have been so prominent this season. When Bobbie calls Don and asks him to meet her at Sardi’s she says something along the lines of “you can call it business.” But Don says “no, let’s not confuse this.” Then Rachel shows up and tells her husband that Don did some “business” for her, at which point Bobbie introduces herself, and Don immediately responds with it’s business — “her husband works for me.” Rachel then counters with “he’s all business, isn’t he,” which, MEOOOWW. (I guess Katz is the right name, LOL.) But it was all so seamy and charged with sexuality.
There was also an armless model of a woman in the doctor’s office – almost like Venus di Milo – further driving home the point of being disconnected from your body and self.
Rachel’s “business” remark has another meaning: Her husband doesn’t know she had an affair with a married gentile. Don isn’t the only one keeping secrets.
@ Deborah: watch Frank Oz's "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" and the reference will make perfect sense (re: banging a pot and shouting "Oklahoma!")
Anyone else here watched "Rome" from HBO? First thing that came to mind when Bobbie gave her, "You'll never be a man, so be a woman and work with that," speech was Atia and Servilia and the various ways they used exactly what made them not men to manipulate the men around them. Very smart and forthright of her to give the advice.
Hey Kay, I tell you there is a large amount of men in my past, including my husband who don’t seem to get how affective a good Marvin Gaye song can affect your ability to procreate. LOL
Outstanding episode! My take on when Don said “I don’t feel a thing” was that, in addition to being hammered, he was also emotionally empty. He seems to be struggling for meaning this season as do many characters.
My take on the “whose kid is that” debate is that the baby we’ve seen is indeed Anita’s but born shortly after Peggy’s. I’m guessing Peggy’s child was put up for adoption and the presence of a nephew almost the same age is a painful reminder to Peggy, thus her awkwardness around the child.
I love the Don and Peggy story. No doubt he sees her as a kindred spirit.
I’m guessing Peggy’s child was put up for adoption and the presence of a nephew almost the same age is a painful reminder to Peggy, thus her awkwardness around the child.
If that is true, it makes Anita really horrible. By forcing Peggy to confront her absent child through her own nephew (and that’s exactly how you’d have to interpret her urging Peggy to say good night to the kids) Anita is just twisting the knife she’s got plunged into Peggy’s back.
Interesting that Peggy has her own place now – no roomate to fight over the phone bill with. Also easier to keep secrets if you don’t have a set of prying eyes.
@DarkEmpress #350 What does everyone think of Peggy’s relationship with her mother. I find it strange. Anita is always struggling for her mother’s and everyone else’s approval, while Peggy who doesn’t value it so readily receives it.
Good point, though I don't see it as strange. Peggy is obviously The Favorite, the smart ambitious one, and her mother, a formidable woman (I like her!), feels no need to apologize for encouraging her. Peggy no doubt takes it for granted, while Anita, the Good Dutiful Daughter, resents it.
1. Peggy told a story to Bobbie about a little boy who fell off a swing, went to sleep and died. Anita's child perhaps?
2.In Season 1, a while ago. Was'nt there an episode where Pete only got to keep his job because of who his father was? What happens now that Pete's Pop is dead?
I think it is Pete's mothers family name not because of who is father was. His mother's family used to own part of New York. They are OLD money. So old it is almost gone. However, the name is very powerful still.
Here's my take on Peggy's role in the family… I think she's the one they feel sorry for. I think she's kind of the runt, figuratively. Her mother keeps saying she's pretty. Elisabeth Moss is so brilliantly cast; she can be both beautiful and equally un. So maybe her mother has always made this point of kissing her ass and trying to boost her confidence because she thinks she's kind of a non-pretty loser. To me, that matches the meek Peggy we first met. And no wonder her sister resents it, because she's not buying it.
Any chance Rachel disapperaed on her European cruise (which was announced to Don via Cooper alluding it was BECAUSE of Don [this from Rachel's father]) because she was pregnant.
She was a woman who wanted to marry for love. Seems odd she fell in love with a man totally opposite Don in such short time and got married …. unless "she had to."
Roberta, I disagree on Peggy. There's a history of stories involving parents being harsher to the "good" children and indulging the "screw-ups." Going all the way back to stories like that of the prodigal son in the Bible.
Sure, but look at Peggy. Look who she was… she didn't look like a screw-up, pre-Pete. She looked like a mouse. A churchmouse, even.
I mean, we don't know. This is all conjecture. But she's not that kind of pretty, dresses like the Amish, and was a virgin (we assume). The getting drunk and making out in hallways feels like making up for a wasted youth… but with very strict limits.
I have been reading the comments about Peggy, and wanted to add:
Peggy dresses like crap because she doesn't want to appear alluring to the men she is trying to work along side. She is not their assistant or secretary, she sees herself as an equal and does not want to be used by them sexually like the assistants and secretaries. Do you remember the psychiatrist in the first episode? She was just like that. She wanted to be respected as a professional, not seen as a sexual object and therefore dressed without allure.
Anita looks just like her mother–she even wears the same hairstyle. She has taken the road her mother has so much so that she dresses the part. Perhaps she is being rejected by her mother, because her mother doesn't like the role she was shoved into. Maybe she really wanted to be a free spirit like Peggy. Peggy still wears her hair in a ponytail, like a little girl. So maybe her mother treats her like a little girl because of it.
I loved how Peggy gave a little nod to Bobbie at the office and how Bobbie raised her eyebrow in acknowledgment. It was like saying thanks, your advice worked.
Whoah, I never said it was because she was ugly. It's because her mother thinks she is plain and weak and may not attract a man, which is of course her only value. She's 20 when we meet her, and isn't dating, and her mother is fixing her up, because sure this secretarial school thing got her a job, but it's not as if she can just work her whole life, is it? She doesn't have it easy like Anita, who found a husband and has her life.
Not saying the whole thinking isn't screwed up, but it's what I think is the dynamic. Poor little Peggy. And now that this has happened, she doesn't know what to make of her.
rose, we’ve discussed it, and maybe it was an outside chance before, but it certainly seems like the new hubby didn’t know she’d had an affair, so I doubt there could be a child, although an abortion is possible.
Susan, I really disagree. Peggy dressed like that when she was a secretary, and even when she thought the job was being alluring. This is Peggy, this is how she’s comfortable, repressed but comfortable.
Roberta, you said you think her mother views her as "non-pretty." As in the opposite of pretty, or it's antonym. Which is "ugly."
I'm saying I think the thousands-of-years-old prodigal son tale is much more viable for the story basis than her mother thinking she's got a homely loser on her hands. That'd be horrifically shallow of her.
Tom, I would say that pretty and ugly exist on a continuum, wherein there is a large grey middle area of "not-pretty" and "plain" and "okay looking" and the like.
Season 1, Episode 1, In Don’s Office, Peggy (water and aspirin in hand) wakes Don who’s lying on his floor asleep. Don looks up at her, squints and says, ‘who are you?’. She replies,”I’m peggy… THE NEW GIRL”.
As far as Peggy being the "favorite" in the family, the youngest child is frequently seen as the favorite in families. The baby of the family tends to be treated as such for life, while the oldest usually has to be the more responsible and self-sufficient. Parents can easilytake for granted how good their oldest child is and equally overlook the flaws of their youngest. I've seen it many times myself in real life.
Season 3 won't be confirmed for months, but we feel confident. I do think we've been purposely teased about Peggy's baby and the questions will be answered soon. Weiner promised that Season 2 would not be a "reveal the mystery" season like Season 1 was.
I'm new to posting but have been FASCINATED by all the threads on this site, and have learned so much! Thank you all!
I re-watched this episode and really think that Peggy gave the baby up for adoption. When Don asks her in the hospital what they want her to do, and she says "I don't know," Don says, intensely, "Yes you do. Do it." I can't imagine that they were asking her to do anything other than sign over the baby to be adopted. Maybe she was having trouble doing that and on some level was staying willfully oblivious because signing the baby over would be admitting that she'd HAD a baby. And I think it would be much harder to pretend that she had never had a baby if it was living with her sister.
I surmise that her sister told her to look in on the kids in the earlier episode because she had probably been close to her nieces & nephews before all this happened and now won't go near them, especially her sister's baby. The kid who said, "Hi Aunt Peggy" was obviously very happy to see her. And maybe the only way Peggy can get through it all is to stay shut down around them now.
Welcome Wendy! I suspect that what they wanted her to do was admit she'd had a baby. There is plenty of evidence that they didn't need her signature to put the baby up for adoption. The state didn't think she could make her own decisions, Anita said.
I see your point about her having lost her legal rights to make that decision. Ok, then maybe she was having to prove her sanity, in terms of being in touch with reality, by admiting she'd had a baby. Poor Peggy. Though I am intrigued by the changeling idea, it seems unlikely to me that Anita's baby died just when Peggy gave birth. Maybe MW was just signaling us that the baby we've seen is not Peggy's.
It's interesting to me that Peggy's mother, who seems so religious and observant (two different things) would have forgiven Peggy and acted like it never happened. But maybe Peggy gets her "forgetting skills" from her mother. And much as I was infuriated by Anita's "confession," the emotions she feels are believable to me. She plays by all the rules, emulating her mother even in her hair and dress (as some of you already pointed out) and still Peggy is the favorite and never has to pay any consequences (as far as Anita can see.) Wendy
My speculation on Peggy/Anita and their roles in the family:
Peggy was the runt, as Roberta said — the strange child, rather plain, does things a little differently, but definitely smart. As a kid, she probably had trouble fitting in. Her mother is just thrilled that she appears to be succeeding now, especially given her recent "troubles."
Anita, on the other hand, probably fit in as a kid, and played well with others. Other kids probably liked her more than her sister. As an adult, she's grown into someone who fulfills conventional roles. She feels that she did everything right, and is not a "weirdo", and hence her resentment of Peggy's elevated status.
I'm not sure I agree that Peggy's the "runt." The feeling I get is that she's the pampered baby of the family. I believe her Mom thinks of Peggy as her smart, beautiful daughter and always has.
Anita has always been the very dutiful daughter doing what was expected with little recognition while Peggy's been lavished with praise and attention. Thus, simmering resentment.
I thought it was interesting in Anita's confession that she said that Peggy was bringing her mother great pain. Peggy's mom really doesn't seem that bothered by the pregnancy. She very lovingly said to Peggy at the hospital, "Peaches, I'm leaving but I'm not going anywhere."
Anita was posing to to be pregnant to save face for the family. Back in the old days it was not uncommon for relatives of an unwed catholic mother to raise the child as their own and never let them know otherwise. Bobby Darrin's grandparetns raised him as their own son whe nit was his "sister" who actually gave birth to him when she was a teen. Living as a bastard would haven been a cruel fate back in those unforgivin times. I beleive Jack Nicholson's aunt raised him as her own son when her sister had a unwed pregnancy. I know of a few storis like this from my irish cathloc family from back in the 50s and 60s. Anita had to play along and look pregant for a few weeks before bringing the baby home so people wouldn't gossip when a new baby arrived
regarding Peggy and her sister being pregnant at the same time.
It could be that Anita's pregnancies helped Peggy stay in denial through her own. She could look at her sister, say "that is what pregnancy looks like, not this weight gain I am experiencing." The tension between the sisters is more about life choices. Anita sees Peggy's choices as a judgment on her (or jealous), and then acts judgmentally towards her.
I am not sure if Peggy currently is denying that the baby ever happened, or just denied a sympathetic ear. I am hopping the latter.
Great links! I always loved Antonioni, and though I haven't seen La Notte in years, those clips bring it all back. A great choice to reflect Don's state of mind. Antonioni's movies were all about restless dissatisfied upper-class people, people who had everything materially yet felt lost and empty without understanding why. It's no wonder Don responds to it.
Unfortunately, I am not an Antonioni fan. Bring out the dancing mimes! Geez Pete. I like some very abstract films—Brewster McCloud comes to mind—but there's something about Antonioni that feels empty to me, and not in the "Oh, how profound, it's about emptiness" way. Or maybe I just don't think that being "about emptiness" is profound.
I tried L'Avventura and Blowup, two of his most famous and acclaimed films, and kind of hated them both. I do think two is enough in a case like this.
I never ever try to argue people into liking movies. It never works, they just resist more. Besides, I didn't like Blow Up either.
I do think that the La Notte reference is a great bit of shorthand for Don and Bobbie's attitudes. In La Notte, especially, which is about a marriage coming apart, Don must surely see himself and his own lostness. Bobbie just swoons that it's "so sexy."
I'm surprised that so many people see the final "no salt" family scene as loving. To me, the look on Betty's face was grim. She's punishing and controlling him.
For Betty, loving Don is kind of a grim task. He lies to her, he won't satisfy her rage, he cheats, and now she finds out he's been withholding this information about his health.
Inanna, I agree with you. I thought that final scene was incredibly cold. He even refuses to eat after that. He just sits there. The rest of the family continues to eat, and he becomes…a pillar of salt.
OK, here's the Don on the Beach recipe I tinkered up last Sunday (per Ellelque's banana/cherry comment) – tastes a bit like a Rusty Nail, but less sweet:
I find the interpretation of the final scene as grim or Betty being controlling interesting. It's definitely not what I thought. If you watch the behind the scenes on the episode…I like what Wiener has to say about it. Betty is taking care of him.
Pete picking up the porn magazine, heading to the chair – what's that sound?- cut to Roger with the paddle ball game, just like Marilyn Monroe in The Misfits.
I know I’m really late on this, but I don’t think Trudy is really infertile. The viewers got this info second-hand and I could totally see her taking the blame to preserve Pete’s manhood – he’s had a difficult year. I think she expected more sympathy from him when she said that – perhaps that’s part of what she “didn’t think through” when she decided to take the blame. He’s immature and completely self-absorbed.
PLUS, for some reason I never thought he was really the father of Peggy’s baby. This would make for a great twist on the “Who’s the daddy” mystery, no? Perhaps there is something more to the sibling rivalry in her family than we’ve seen.
(about his kids) I don’t see them enough. And when I do I don’t know what to do. And when I drop them off, I feel relieved. And then I miss them. — Don Draper, The Chrysanthemum and the Sword
Way to be the first comment, Shelly. You should win a prize… (somehow I'm trying to work 'go see my video and vote for it in as a prize, but I can't quite sell it… plus I think you already voted).
Honestly, I cannot freaking wait for tonight's episode.
I had the weirdest thought today. When Harry and his wife went to Paul's party, was Hildy attending? Did Harry tell his wife that Hild was the woman he slept with? Also, Pete's and Harry's wives are friends. Thay chat on the phone. Hildy is Pete's secretary. Surely it spilled over somewhere?
I didn't see Hildy at the party. As far as I can tell, we've only seen her in Flight 1.
Would Harry had told his wife Hildy's name? I know if I found out my husband had slept with one of the secretaries, I would not be comfortable with him seeing her at work.
Jennifer looked miserable at the party, so maybe she was looking around to try to work out who Harry slept with. I'm sure Harry spilled his guts completely. He keeps doing that.
That would be another storyline they could follow. Just saw an ad for the new Starter Wife show. Looking forward to it. Man some major stuff on L&O Criminal Intent. Bobby's real father is a serial killer, major stuff for any fans.
Here I am, Manhattan in hand, can't wait …
I snagged my hubby's laptop so I could watch and chat. Grapes, OJ and a Jenny Craig Brownie.
Evening, all. I'll be offline during the show, as usual.
Patti, Jennifer doesn't appear to be having an easy pregnancy, I kind of thing it was that, plus the whole "Bohemian" thing, that made her look so uncomfortable.
Tonight's wine is a Pinot Grigio — I don't like it.
"Sally, fetch me a Bloody Mary."
Why did they remind us of the Dick Whitman thing?
Lot of ground covered in those flashbacks!
Written by Robin Veith! our little girl is growing up!
Yes, no intimate talk in front of one's spouse.
Hello, back from vacation, gimlet in hand!
Joan got a shiny new accessory
Have you ever fathered a child?
HA!
OK, quote of the week, "Did your testicles descend normally?"
If only Pete knew he had a bouncy baby boy…
If only Pete had read the warnings about Xeroxing your penis…
LOL, Joy!
I told you Joan was getting her ring.
Horrible woman, nice dress
Looks like Bobbie is growing on Don.
I went to Sardi's when I was 13! Cool!
Rachel!!!!
OH! MY! GOD!!!!!
Whut oh!!!
I SO CALLED THIS!!!
She married a wimp. But golly she looks pretty. Love the dress.
*GASP*!!! I was just about to say that Bobbie is a poor excuse for Rachel, then – whu-oh!
Rachel!!
Me too, Bobbie, me too!
I honestly have a hard time watching when she's on.
Don looks very handsome right now. Don on the Beach, new Drink.
This is NOT From Here to Eternity!
Mmm… maybe I'll trade in my gimlet for a Don on the Beach…
Car accident, maybe?
I and sensing a Chappaquidick situation
Did Rachel marry the first guy who came around after Don? I guess Daddy Menken approves, Tilden Katz is the very opposite of dapper.
Bridges? Ted Kennedy wants his past back.
Rachel!!!!! But she's married to the geekiest dude she could find! He's no Don Draper!!!!
Oh No she's not
What a claaaaasssy broad that Bobbie is…swigging from a bottle.
Oy, what a piece of work!
Oh shit, he drives like Betty!
Great minds, Ellelque…
Ooooh, shit!
consequences…
I had the Ted Kennedy thought with the bridges and drinking while driving too. And Don confirms it was La Notte he was watching earlier – yay.
I knew it…it's Chappaquiddick (sp?)
Finally, an acknowledgment that drinking and driving is not of the good.
What will Betty say?
$150 for DWI?
So not today, DUI, fine only.
How can they wanna even mess up such a handsome face!?
Oh, the world before ATMs…
Peggy to The Rescue!
Oh, it's like THAT!! His Girl Friday!
Looks like Peggy's getting another promotion!
My, that Peggy is a dependable one….
I really do like Peggy. OMG Peggy and Bobbie roomies!
Oh, lord, can you imagine bringing that thing home to your roommates?
Wow, does this confirm that Don has helped Peggy out of a sticky jam before, too, or what? I heart Peggy so much right now.
Once again, soon Idlewild will be JFK.
It not personal, it's just business. Just like the Mob.
Cue the Mancini music for a new MM theme, The Days of Wine and Roses . . .
Oh, hot drunk Don Draper! LOL!
Aaargh! I hate being on the west coast. Do I say that every Sunday? Ah well. Can only live vicariously through you all for another 3 hours.
Funny story, Ellelque: My mother (who was born in 1935, and almost never drinks) had a bit too much wine one holiday, and started mocking my conscientious high school boyfriend for leaving his car to walk home instead of driving: "Pshht… Back when I was young, there was none of this 'drunk driving' nonsense… You hit someone, you move them to the side of the road, and pin a note saying 'So sorry!' to their chest… *hiccup*".
Random…..I really can't stand Hugh Grant or the Jonas Bros!!
Don and Peggy make great allies. They are both decent people who are surrounded by corruption.
So anyone think Pete's wife is barren? Cause we know Pete ain't shootin blanks.
I'm absolutely expecting a flashback of Don telling Peggy (in re the baby) "this can be fixed."
LOL Joy!
Wow! Let's see—Joan's engaged, Pete's testicles are just fine, Rachel is now Mrs. Katz, Bobbie's still the same old, same old, Don and Bobbie were in a wreck, and Peggy is who Don knows he can rely on. How is he going to 'splain the wrecked car to Betty? Stay tuned.
I'll check in at the next commercial.
Oh, the radio was playing Theme from A Summer Place when Don and Bobbie were driving to the beach.
LOL!
Why wouldn't he just stay in the city like he always used to?
Sounds like something Don would say.
I'm sick of that SAB!!!
Great lie! Man thinks on his feet. Betty's voice sounds like she just woke up. Raspy. Maybe she has a cold.
Pulling the hysterical card…so typical
I can understand why SAB's Pa has HBP! She's a damn nerve-plucker!
God don't let Peggy and Bobbie become good friends. OMG They addressed Marilyn.
Happy Birthday, Mr. Pres-i-dent…
Oooooh, Marilyn Monroe's singing Happy Birthday to JFK on Saturday night! It's the middle of May, I think.
Is that gold nailpolish on Bobbie? Loving it.
Here comes Don's new gal.
"I keep forgetting the accident."
"If you're lucky it'll disappear."
More loaded lines.
Who's the new secretary?
Ken's a total slut! Loves it!
Like baitin fish
That's the same excuse he'll use when Betty starts beating him.
Jane Siegel… another bird!
Plop plop fizz fzz
I really love that color on Peggy.
At least Peggy's not wearing that wack gingham print!
I think he's done for you for things that you're mentioning, Peggy Dear.
Yay!!!!!!!! Flashback!
I like Mrs. Unfunny Comic! She's cool! I'm once again in the minority….
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS TOO.
OK, these commercial breaks need to be longer so I can get in the cabinet and mix up a Don on the Beach…
OK GIRLS! Whose damn baby is that they have been showing?
Yeah, Peggy needs another unconventional woman friend, though not necessarily Bobbie.
I hate that fat suit! It looks so fake! Where's Rick Baker? LOL!
Jesus, Spiriva is one of the brands I work on.
I knew it, I knew it!
There had to be a reason why Don called her…we'll be finding out…
Despite the blondeness of the child, I think it's Peggy's. Babies' hair gets darker, anyway.
LOL Don on the Beach!
Anita looked kinda old to be preggo!
Fat suit sure fooled a lot of people last year.
Hmm, so did Anita miscarry or what? I actually almost sort of liked Bobbie in that scene. Do I need medication for that? LOL!
Anyway, loved the flashback scene and hope we see more of that if not tonight, then in the coming weeks.
Don's new secretary is a real looker.
Roberta, I bet Matt is e-mailing you spoilers! LOL Joy. Vodka, Banana Liqueur and a juicy cherry. Cherry/Banana get it!
DotB is going to be rye-based, that's for sure!
Curiouser, and curiouser.
I thought Barbara was Mrs. Katz. Did she marry her brother-in-law?
Was that penny jar analogy new back then?
Mrrrreowl! Claws out!
Fat suit looked phony-ass on Carlton!
I'm glad Joan got her ring! Now, she may not be so spiteful!
Roger is just so…Roger.
I won't say I like her, but I do find her fascinating. I think I like the idea of her, if that makes sense.
Jane is the new Joan!
Hee! Joan. New girl still needs a pair of glasses to whip off for the sexy secretary look though, after she pulls her hair out of the bun.
She sooooo busted Ken!
WTH? The zipper thing?
Is it just this TV I'm watching or does Joan look positively huge in this episode? Hiding an attractive girl under too much lunch, eh?
That zipper thing was just gross.
Aw, poor Joanie… New Girl's making her look positively blowzy.
Take her for a make-over, annoying woman — and then all will be forgiven.
God, Bobbie is clueless. Peggy could break her in half.
Think Peggy is gonna Bobbie up in the future. Maybe dress sexier in the office?
I don't really get the battub commercial!
A nice Labor Day marathon! They need to "Bravo" the eff out this show!! Project Runway's show at least 30 times in 3 days!
Man, I wish every show would provide this level of anticipation and fulfillment each week, esp starting with the all-important Episode 5.
I hate this Hotelsdotcom commercial — I've done too much in the service industry to find the concept of someone demeaning people to be funny.
"God, Bobbie is clueless. Peggy could break her in half"
Yeah, and then sautee her in butter and eat her with a nice chianti… o_O
I guess Freddy Rumsen is just sitting in his office figuring out songs to play on his zipper. LOL! It was dumb but funny.
I thought Rachel said her last name was Katz now. Did I hear wrong? Isn't Bobbie's last name Barrett?
A little Clooney, apparently new BOK rules, you can't say Clooney is dumb, but you can say he is gay.
Think Peggy is gonna Bobbie up in the future. Maybe dress sexier in the office?
No. Joan already tried all this on her last season. Peggy is vastly too wised up for any of this crap. Note her tone when she said to Bobbie "Is that what you did?" And of course Bobbie is far too dense to know she was being insulted.
Kay,
He's making them work for their tips.
I hate Viagra commercials!! Booooo!!!
You would never see a medication that would help get us aroused! And insurance definately wouldn't pay for it.
Will he call her Lovely?
Elle….Sucks how the Pill can't get insurance sometimes!
Stop rubbing it in Pete
Pete is the biggest ass…ever!!
Fetch! Sit! Procreate!
I wanna punch Pete in his active nuts!!
You want to ascend Petes normally descended testicles?
Don!!!!
Pete's such a little bitch! I feel for Trudy, although she bugs much of the time!
OMG!! I am in love with this man!
I love Don so damn much right now.
I knew he said it first!
Oh, we will be talking about this scene A LOT!
Peggy's showing more pointed breast.
Peggy's growing some cajones.
Did you bring me my money, daddy?
"Don" Yes Girl!!!
Hmm.. calling Don by the first name.. interesting.
Good for her. The guys call him Don, why shouldn't she?
Hee! Ms. Darkly.
Excellent show all in all!!!
Oh, shit, no salt — he might have to kill her.
what is SAB?
Kinky Don! Rowr!!!
Aw, special appearance for Rachel. So I guess she's done now.
I'm guessing it's stupid-ass bitch — a nickname for Betty.
Tying bobbie up!
SAB is my special nickname for Don's wife!
Excellent Ms. D! Okay who was Pete talking to in that sexy voice when he asked the person to turn around? Jane? Could you imagine if Peggy catches him trying to seduce Don's new gal friday.
I don't mean to sound dense but does Don not know the reason Peggy was in the hospital? He did give her the Dick Whitman advice….to forget "it" ever happened. Loved how she called him Don instead of Mr. Draper. The look on his face was great, very subtle, but you saw the tiniest little quizzical look when she called him that.
I admit, at least Bobbie is bringing out the "creativity" in Don. That scene is gonna be zexy!
Best episode of the season so far, maybe the series
Holy shit what an episode.
So much.
So much.
But… Peggy listened to Bobbie's advice. That's why she called him Don. All the other Creatives do.
I love Trudy's Jackie Kennedy pillbox hat!
At the animal shelter we used to call people LABs — Lazy-assed Bitches. "Wow, we have a lot of Labs right now!"
Wow, for a woman, I am *terrible* at spotting engagement rings – I didn't even notice Joan's until I read the comments and she mentioned her wedding!
I'm not sure whether Peggy is calling Don "Don" because of what Bobbie said ("act as if you're equals"), or to let him know that this was done out of personal friendship.
I think it is because of what Bobbie said. None of the guys call him Mr. Draper. It did sound foriegn coming out of her mouth.
I'm like, shaking from this episode. Pretty much, from the moment we saw Rachel, Don and I stopped breathing, and I'm still feeling it.
I think he knows, Jan W. It seems like since she would not say it aloud, he was being gentlemanly in not calling her on it directly, while still communicating he knew. It wasn't giving her an Easter Egg, but still.
Don, baby, unleash your inner freak!!!
Gotta give a hand to Bobbie Barrett for keeping Don Sexxy!!
I know Jackie Gleason, and you, sir, are no Jackie Gleason.
Ugh, Rachel's husband is such a drip (and reminds me of Clark Rockefeller)… way to quench her fire, Clark.
I don’t mean to sound dense but does Don not know the reason Peggy was in the hospital? He did give her the Dick Whitman advice….to forget “it†ever happened.
I'm not sure. I think he knows, but in the end he believes in Bert Cooper's wisdom: "Who cares?"
Bobbie knows better than to start with Rachel. Rachel could break her in half, too.
Thanks for the answers.
Signing off for the night. I'm back at work tomorrow—I'm a teacher's assistant in Special Ed. Gotta get up early. 
Hull, you do in fact say that every Sunday.
You all know what my theory is…Perhaps she went corny because it was a hushed up / rushed up.
Hey folks! I had to focus during the broadcast tonight…lots of goodies.
Damn!! When Rachel showed up! Don's face showed more consternation than usual – but with a hint of vulnerability, which was well done. He's so not over her. Bobbie sussed it, I am surprised that she didn't say anything to Don about who Rachel was. Guess it's all about Bobbie.
I thought that the scenes with Bobbie and Peggy were brilliant – and Bobbie was humanized a bit – I liked her better than usual, though the subtle sparring between Peggy and her was terrific.
I also liked the scene with Pete and the doctor – he was honest, and let his guard down – and then was back to being a dickwad, particularly in the ending scenes with Trudy.
When Trudy said "What is all this for?" referring to having the baby, but I also heard her saying "What else do I have?" Pete has his work and his 'status and self-worth' but Trudy doesn't have the options, she's just sitting around waiting for her life to start, seemingly.
"Pick a job and then become the person that does it." Good one, Bobbie – I guess this is what attracts Don to her, same wavelength there.
I love how Peggy addressed Don as 'Don' at the end – taking Bobbie's advice, eh? Should be interesting to see how that plays out!
hmmm…oh the flashbacks to Peggy!!!!! I was so waiting for those – and Don visiting her and saying what he said about 'going forward'. Wow.
Rachel looked fabulous!
Just wait till Roger sees the new secretary…
How many people for just a second thought that was Rachel walking into the jail to save Don. I did.
Oh, When $2.00 worth of gas could get you from Brooklyn to Stonybrook and back. It's not worth the sexism, and racism, and no cable, but still…
When Don saw Rachel, he nearly jumped outta his skin! The new Mrs. Katz is still in Mr. Draper's system–BIG time!
Good!!!!
“Pick a job and then become the person that does it.â€
another great t-shirt. Or an excellent line for a college or employment agency.
each episode gets better and better in delivering some information and sustaining the anticipation.
loved the dialogue between bobbi and peggy.
and the flashbacks of Peggy in St. Mary's. WOW. i am left with even more questions since it shows her sister pregnant. and further, how Don ends up finding her, finding out about her situation and the advice he gives her. has he a soft spot for her or does he think shes really just a girl friday?
i love this show!
Goodnight all, I have an early start tomorrow.
The New Girl – Peggy's new attitude?
I like Peggy saying 'this can be fixed' – especially resonant now that we know what Don said to her when she was in the hospital.
Melville – "I’m not sure whether Peggy is calling Don “Don†because of what Bobbie said (â€act as if you’re equalsâ€), or to let him know that this was done out of personal friendship."
Maybe I'm thinking in a too linear way, but I do think it's because of what Bobbie said – then again, Peggy's smart, it's probably been incubating for some time, and perhaps what Bobbie said just helped her ideas manifest.
I liked the 'no salt' thing at the end, I found it sweet – though Betty is such a rollercoaster, my sympathies for her fluctuate. Too little Betty in this episode, for my tastes regardless.
Don does seem as downtrodden as ever, though.
Night, Patti.
Joan appears "in love" with marriage, not the doc! JMHO!
"How many people for just a second thought that was Rachel walking into the jail to save Don. I did."
I totally did, Ellelque!!
I think Don senses Peggy's decency and integrity. I mean she is one of the only people around his office that he works with that has any. He feels protective of her, like a good mentor.
"The New Girl" – Don's new girlfriend (Bobbie)?
"The New Girl"- Could also refer to the scene at Sardi's. Rachel meets Don's "New Girl," Bobbie.
Joan does seem a bit too enthusiastic – I agree, she does seem more in love with the idea, Kay. She's like 'phew, made it under the wire!'
Night, Patti!
especially since her age was ousted!
Night Patti
How did they give January Jones total bedhead? Was she actually sleeping before they filmed the scene lol
We know Joan is sensitive about her age — I don't think she wants to be an "Old Maid."
'Night, Patti!
Night, Patti.
This thread is like The Waltons.
The first time we saw Betty — Pilot — she woke up looking perfectly put together.
Couldn't find an ashtray? Classy, Bobbie.
Don said that he was told Peggy had TB and was quarantined – but the rest of the group doesn't appear to know that (fat farm comment from earlier ep) – I wonder what they were told?
And Don obviously sees through that lie – he cuts right to the chase about it.
I do give Bobbie credit for not going all Diva on Peggy while staying with her. She was pretty down to earth.
Her mother was the one who came up with TB.
They were still publishing Confidential ( which L.A. Confidential was based on) on in 1962? Interesting…must google.
LOL @ Ellelque. Me, too! If I remember to notice it.
Bonus points if you manage to fit in that idiotic "I'm a little bit clairvoyant!" line when you do see the ring!
These people could not get away with all the phone lying today if they had cell phones and caller ID.
I'm excited to finally get that half-second glimpse of Rachel!
I thought that was a very cheesy line. I ahlf expected Joan to roll her eyes.
Alright, the rye and fruit liqueur experiments are getting to me… Goodnight, BoKers.
Joan didn't roll her eyes because New Girl told her what she wanted to hear.
im watching the encore……
"if you're lucky it will dissappear" that quote from peggy
this blog is fantastic! thank you.
good night and i cant wait to tune in next week
Later, Joy!
They Xanax'd her ass up.
Interesting, that quote at the end from Don about 'you'll be shocked how you can forget it" or something to that effect…
But yet Don's past keeps showing up in his present life – his brother, Rachel, etc.
I'm joining Joy (but not literally) Goodnight from Tampa! I worked all weekend, but got to take kid to school in am.
Well, later all! It's been fun y'all!
Watching the flashback again: Peggy doesn't argue when the doctor says he had a baby. She may be "in denial," but she's still in touch with reality.
night kids.
I wonder if Anita thinks that Don is the married man. How did she find out about the married man at all? I can't see Peggy confiding in her ass. But, I can see a nurse or doctor telling of Don's visit…since all the medical professionals back then like to talk…alot.
I loved this episode. I've always said that Don and Peggy were strongly connected, and this episode proved it. I knew that Don was going to call Peggy. I thought the flashbacks were great. I had suspected that Don had covered for Peggy, thus starting the rumor that he knocked her up. Peggy is starting to take Bobbie's advice, it was the first time she call him Don. I couldn't beleive it.
I was surprised that Joan planned to work after marraige. I thought her whole goal was to get married, quit her job, and move to the suburbs.
I thought it was interesting that we could got to see Rachel's story wrapped up-she married a nice doctor her father approved of. I had a question about Don's new secretary: Is she Jewish? Seigal is a fairly common Jewish name. It could be that Sterling Cooper has just its first Jew in a position more senior than mail room clerk.
It was great seeing the double standard out in force-Joan telling Jane that it is a place of work, undercut by the Mozart zipper.
When Peggy was in her apartment talking to Bobbie, some of her lines sounded like things Don would say.
I'm really curious to see the effect Bobbie's advice has on Peggy.
All in all, another amazing episode.
I like the non-sequitor Pearl Harbor issue with all the skin mags in the clinic room where Pete has to make his, er, deposit.
Vintage porn! I missed this last time.
Well, she could have told him he died. But, I bow to you, Ms. Darkly, you are one of my favorite posters. I also love Kay the wannbe Don toy. You make my Sunday nights even better.
I wonder if Anita thinks that Don is the married man. How did she find out about the married man at all? I can’t see Peggy confiding in her ass. But, I can see a nurse or doctor telling of Don’s visit…since all the medical professionals back then like to talk…alot.
Ah, that's good!
I am Ken, Ken "the office pimp" Cosgrove. that's my position
Ken reminds me way too much of my financial advisor.
Not that my financial advisor is a pimp as far as I know, but I only talk to him like once a year.
No, you make a good point Ms. Golighty. Of course, she was drugged — maybe she told the doctors that, and they told her people. And saying he died, what are the chances?
I think the death excuse leads to more questons/wanting to see an obit, etc.
"Are you still trying to say thank you?"
Peggy is fantastic.
I almost cried during that scene with Don and Peggy at the hospital. And again, when it came up in the "Inside Mad Men" clip. And now, thinking about it. What an amazing episode.
Sometimes I want to smack him around pimp-style and put him on a corner in our present economy, though.
So, I correctly bowed to you, oh wise one. You smart.
I especially enjoyed tonight's episode "The New Girl." This was an exceptional episode! I thought the opening sequence with Pete, Trudy and the doctor was exceptionally funny, especially when the doctor was asking Pete all those "intimate" questions. I thought the reaction on Pete's face was priceless. I have to give kudos to Vincent Kartheiser and Alison Brie. They really work hard with their characters and they were so fantastic in tonight's episode.
I felt really happy for Joan, knowing she's going to be married soon, but felt a little bad for Roger. I always liked seeing Roger/Joan together. The new girl who is working alongside Joan was so good. I loved the scene when the welcome wagon came to say hello to the new girl and the whole introduction scene Paul, Ken, and Harry. Fantastic!
I have to single out Jon Hamm and Elisabeth Moss especially with their characters in tonight's episode. I did not know who would come to Don's rescue but I was so glad that it was Peggy. She really respects Don and how he helped her out in the first season, so I was so glad Peggy came to help both Don and Bobbi tonight. I really enjoyed the Don/Peggy scenes and also the flashback scene of Peggy's stay in the hospital, as well as the Bobbi/Peggy banter in Peggy's apartment. I thought Melidna McGraw did a great job tonight! Both Jon Hamm and Elisabeth Moss were so outstanding, and I cannot wait to see what will happen in the future episodes to come.
All in all, it was another outstanding episode as always. Mad Men continues to excel with the best writing and excellent peformances by the cast. Fantastic!!!
Err, that's the Ketel One talking, folks. Of course he's a person worthy of dignity and respect. Yup, yup. Dignity and respect. He needs to make me some damn money.
We'll see — I might end up bowing to you.
Yeah, I liked the theme music that Paul, Ken and Harry had when they walked over to the new girl.
Peggy is smart enough to see Bobbie for what she is, and filter out what advice is worth taking. She knows the whole "be a woman" line for what it is (She tried that and ended up pregnant,) but she also knows that she should stand up for herself. But she also wants to be a decent person, to be loyal to Don because of what he did for her, not just out of office politics and her own ambitions. I loved the exchange when Bobbie says "He really is a decent man, isn't he," and Peggy answers "I never expected him to be anything other than what he is."
What makes Don and Peggy the protagonists of the show is how their motives are mixed, yet they try to walk a moral line as best they can see it.
“I never expected him to be anything other than what he is.â€
See, what I love about that line is that it's completely ambiguous, which is great. Peggy gives nothing away there.
Come into the river of denial, Peggy. The water's just fine.
The meatloaf has none of the salt, all of the saturated fat.
It was a great episode.
I also loved the Bobbi/Peggy scenes. Interestingly Bobbi had a better idea on the reality of Marilyn Monroe. I think Peggy does not want to look to deep at anything right now. It is part of what makes her and Don so alike. And they both knew what he said to her in the hospital was a lie. If anything that is kind of a theme of this season.
And whose baby is that? Maybe Peggy's died shortly after birth and Anita's is just a loaded reminder. THe Doctors were worried about her not only acknowledging the pregnancy, but not expressing remorse over its death. Or Anita's died and they took in
And I also think Peggy will take Bobbi's advice, only in her own way. Calling him "Don" was a start. And I would like to see dress more comfortably. Admit ambition, not let the guys exclude her, etc.
That scene with Don and Betty: so he still is not into opening up to her, but that was a very good lie.
I wish Joan the best in her upcoming nuptials, but could she really have been that stupid about Roger? Of course he hates the institution. He complains more of Margaret, the fruit of the union, than Mona.
Yes Pete is still an insensitive ass. In the two years the show has covered he has not learned anything about tact. I hated how Trudy kept apologizing though. It was king of painful to watch. I wanted to tell her "stop apologizing, you have nothing to be sorry for."
One more hour!
I love many other shows but Mad Men is pretty much the only one I count down to watch.
THE NEW GIRL – is Peggy
Great observation, Peter G!! That's right on.
We can also apply a bit of that to Joan, who will start a new married life, and also Rachel.
Ha! Jane Siegel…sea gull? (yet another bird reference)
Off target, but I am wasting time until show starts (although tonights L&O Criminal Intent is excellent, Nicole is back to torment Bobby)
Has anyone ever been to the site Post Secret? It is a really cool site and people send their darkest secrets anonymously on a postcard. This site post them every Sunday. Very thought provoking.
http://postsecret.blogspot.com/
It was all great. Love the subtle touches, like theme from "A Summer Place" playing in the car while Don and Bobbie were on the way to the beach. The original movie was about forbidden love between two people, at the beach. BTW, does anyone know if the new episode will run next Sunday, or if it will just be the 5 episode marathon and the new episode runs the next Sunday (two weeks from now)?
Evening, my fellow Basket Cases.
Hello Ms. Darkly
IMDb says that "Maidenform" will be airing next week. The five-episode marathon would wrap up at ten pm anyway.
I knew it!!!!! Don knew!
OMG Sisters pregnant!
Hey, Anita was pregnant! Awesome! So let’s see if she faked twins or had a stillbirth or something.
She’s back in the weird fatsuit. Boo
Anita’s Pregnant!!!!
I thought it’s Peggy’s baby, and Anita’s faking it to spare the family shame? (Of course, secrecy doesn’t seem to be her forte since she goes yammering about it to the priest…)
I loved this episode.
Rachel looked fabulous.
I hope the new girl has a great story arc/backstory—but not with ken cosgrove, can we keep it out of the office please?
I'm happy for Joan and I'm glad we got a Joan/Roger scene, those are always great.
I was wondering if Pete would get porn or not…he's an asshole.
Bobbie is annoying, she looks perpetually drunk and I don't find her at all interesting.
I wonder who the baby mama is.
I think tonight is the closest either Betty or Don has come to expressing any kind of love, it was really sweet at the dinner table.
And yet another bird reference: Jay Bird was one of the vintage porn magazines in the doctor's office.
Peggy is so far ahead of Bobbie, and Bobbi knows it.
I’m *Ken.*
Bobbie is trying to corrupt her.
"You'll be SHOCKED by how much it never happened."
Line of the season, and one of the defining lines of "Draper's" character so far.
This episode did a really great job of hitting on some of the core themes of the series.
-With Pete and Trudy's story line, you get the whole "what is the point of all of this?" angle, and people starting to question why they're doing things just because they're expected to. I certainly wasn't around in the 60s (far from it), but maybe this shift towards a more existential outlook on life is all building up to the social changes that happen in the latter part of the decade. So if the show is touching upon this kind of stuff early on to lead up to that, then that could have the potential for some great material.
-With Don/Bobbie/Peggy, you get the covering up of lies/putting on a facade element. Bobbie's great line about (paraphrasing) picking what you want and then becoming the person that does it sums it up nicely, and is a fascinating and surprisingly accurate observation on life itself when you really think about it. And of course, the hospital flashback (didn't a lot of people on this blog see that one comin'?) is one of the instantly classic moments of the series thus far.
I find myself haunted by Don's line that I posted above. It keeps repeating in my head since the episode ended.
Immature…biggest ass ever — same thing!
The VA places Penis Pumps free and gives men Viagra. they used to not pay for my BP pills. Your tax dollars at work.
Thank you, Don. Not Mr. Draper?
Don with a jacked up arm is still sexy as hell!
The less SAB, the better for me!!
There was no HIPPA back then. Chances are Don got the info out of a nurse or someone else. They wouldn’t just allow anyone to visit her there. I think he knew.
The best show yet, but for the mystery is cleared, it created more.
Why was Anita Pregnant, and looking as if she was herself about to give labor?
Who’s baby is that?
How could Rachel end up with that milque toast of a man?
Is Trudy barren?
Does Joan really love her husband?
I think he can’t help but care a little, being a “whore’s son” and all.
Rachel went from Don to that twit! Guess a woman had to move on, but to that corny guy?
I have an inspiration for a new T-shrt.
Black with white writing.
“Forget it. It never happened”
People would see it and wonder what you were talking about.
Night, Jan.
Night, Jan w.
Nobody checked the ID’s to see that Bobbie probably wasn’t Don’s wife, or was the cop just being discreet?
Night Jan.
Elle, that would be brilliant! CafePress, anyone?
New Girl:
Let’s see — Don has a new girl/secretary and Don basically told Peggy to make a new start/forget about the past. Peggy also acts with a new confidence.
Any other title meanings?
The first time we saw Betty — Pilot — she woke up looking perfectly put together.”
Ohhh, good point, Ms. D. She’s a bit more disheveled this season, that’s for sure.
Though maybe somewhere in an attic there’s a painting of Betty that is falling apart.
Next time someone shows me their engagement ring, I am going to say, “It’s so lively!”
Night, Joy.
Rachel went from Don to that twit! Guess a woman had to move on, but to that corny guy?
That corny guy is from the same world, and will not lie to her, cheat on her or conceal things from her. No way is she attracted to ‘dashing’ anymore. It scares the crap out of her.
Betty hid the sugar from her diabetic father. She mothers. It’s annoying.
About the baby–from the flashbacks at the beginning, in voiceover Peggy says that she can make her own decisions, and Anita fires back, "The State of New York didn't think so." Could this be a clue that Peggy's child has been taken away from her likely because of her mental breakdown? Putting an illegitimate child up for adoption isn't farfetched.
While I don't see Peggy wanting to keep the child at all–since she didn't even realize the pregnancy was happening–having her own child taken away might explain how awkward she is around the baby in her sister's house, even if that baby is Anita's. We were so led to believe that Anita was raising Peggy's baby. It would make it even nastier about what Anita said in confession. She senses the priest's interest in Peggy, and so she makes sure to kamikaze any esteem the priest has for her sister.
I can see Peggy telling people the father was married, and leaving it at that, because that might be the only thing that could convince people that he was out of the picture and ineligible for a shotgun wedding.
donnybrook means a fight or a brawl…I didn’t know what Pete was talking about the first time.
“I never expected him to be anything other than what he is.â€
Except that she did. She was *upset* when she found out about Midge. She just got over it. More denial.
That was a long time ago, for Peggy. She came to terms with who he is, married that (Midge) with his respect for Peggy and kindness.
And yet now she’s addressing the disrespectful-to-her part.
“Are you still trying to say thank you?†Peggy is fantastic.” (Melville)
Yes, and I saw it as a natural progression from the line from season one when Peggy said to Joan “I just realized something. You think you’re being helpful.”
She’s learned a lot…
Laura (yes, I’m still up, but I HAVE TO SLEEP) I thought the same thing. She actually understood that Bobbi was trying to be helpful; she ran it through her filter on the spot. She understands that she must consider the source, but I do think dealing with Joan helped her deal with Bobbi. e. however we spell it.
If Peggy’s child died, then I imagine that would have tempered Anita’s anger. Also, that would have been mentioned during confession.
BTW, timeline-wise, I think we can put this episode at May 14-18, 1962.
Eighteen months since Pete and Trudie started conceiving takes us from 11/60 to 5/62, which also fits Pete’s statement about it being a couple of months since his father died. (Actually, now that I’m thinking about it, he might have said “a few months,” which we’d have to chalk up to him underplaying the whole event.)
Bobbie says that Marilyn Monroe was supposed to be at Madison Square Gardens “this Saturday”, which would be the occasion of her famous “Happy Birthday, Mr. President” song. That happened on May 19, 1962, and the day after Don stops eating salt at dinner.
Peggy is the female version of Don. Both are smart, careful with responses and aware of their public image. Most important, they both take opportunities when they see them.
Peggy is a smart cookie. She absorbs everything — all advice — and uses it. Remember Episode 1 when she put her hand on Don’s on her first day in the office, as to suggest she was open for a relationship? She knew if that’s what it took, she would do it.
Can I say how much I love Rachel Menken Katz!
Now that’s my old show! This episode was so charged! I’ll need to re-watch it several more times to pick up everything. Good stuff.
Also, had to look up La Notte after Don mentioned it in the car. I haven’t seen it, but it seems to deal with a married couple who tires of each other.
IMBD synopses: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054130/plotsummary
Not much, but still found it interesting that this is Don’s kind of movie. Plus, I like to pick apart little details.
Just one nitpick, the only one I have for this episode (truly the most satisfying so far in this season for me, the others have had an oddly disjointed feel to them…):
Stony Brook is on the north shore/Long Island Sound side of Lawn Guyland. Granted, I've never been there at night and maybe the tides do change, but the Sound is overall a rather calm body of water, with gently lapping waves, no "From Here to Eternity"-style crashing waves that Bobbi was describing in her Don on the Beach scenario.
Hull, I had your back at comment #94.
There was a Roberta at the Sunday supper table last week, the meal that Father Gil did not stay for. So there absolutely best not be a Roberta in Bobbie Barrett's… anything. Barbara. Although that's right back with Rachel's sister.
Y'know, Don did have that 'we're gonna deliver a stillborn' line for the AA pitch. It is possible that Anita's baby died and she's raising Peggy. Oh, so much craziness!
Fantastic episode, stuffed with so much. nice special appearance by Rachel.
The lines that made me laugh:
“I love comedians!” (delivered perfectly by an actor in a bit part)
“If you’re not hunting for a dead file, I suggest you go pitch your tents elsewhere.”
“Are you still trying to say thank you?”
The lines that just cut to the bone:
“This can be fixed.” (Peggy, in the car) Left unsaid: “my situation could not/cannot.”
“It will shock you how much you can forget.” (Don)
It’s interesting how they managed to humanize Bobbie and show us another angle, but not make it totally false. You see how her ball-breaking, unpleasant negotiation style in her very first scene with Don on the set in “the Benefactor” is more of a “business persona.”
Great scene when Peggy called Don by his first name at the end.
Verrry interesting how they showed Anita being pregnant! I wonder – is that baby that Anita is rearing or Peggy’s? Anita’s pregnancy is definitely related to Peggy’s situation, but it’s unclear how — thinking back to all S-2 scenes, we’ve been led to assume the baby is Peggy’s, but I don’t think there’s ever been explicit reference to the baby.
I was wondering if Pete would get porn or not…he’s an asshole.
It's my understanding that, when a man is providing a sperm sample, there's always porn for him to help him along.
Anyone else think the “no salt†scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!†in its blatantness.
I didn't see it that way at all; in fact, I completely missed the metaphor for blandness. I saw it as the value of family life. "What is all this for?" It's so someone cares about your blood pressure, about whether you live or die. Don looks at this family scene and loves it, and wishes he could find it in himself to be made happy by it.
But "running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!â€" is now my favorite way ever to describe obviousness.
Madwoman: Maybe Anita lost her child and took on Peggy’s to help soothe the loss. I don’t know. That’s why it’s so hard to totally judge any character in this show as we don’t always know all the facts and the next episode may change our opinion.
I loved tonight’s episode, but I do have a nitpick.
They’re fucking with us in the names department. It’s bad enough that we have a Bobby Draper and a Bobbie Barrett. But in FTWTY, Betty’s friend Juanita called her Betsy Hofstadt, although last season we were introduced to Betty’s father, who is Gene Driscoll (check the credits for Long Weekend). Then Trudy mentions a friend named Sarah Driscoll. Next we meet Rachel and her new husband Tilden Katz. But in the credits for Babylon, they list Rachel’s sister as Barbara Katz. That’s way too many people in the same universe with the same name. I know these names aren’t terribly uncommon, but it’s not like any of them are called Smith or Jones either. For a show that prides itself on the details, that’s kind of sloppy…and somewhat confusing.
Hullaballoo–
do not underestimate the intentionality of the creators of this show. “Betsy Hofstadt”: Juanita knew her as a model–it’s more than possible that Betty used a different last name (not to mention a different variant of her first name) for her “professional” name. Betty’s mother did not approve of her being a model–she equated it with being a prostitute (even more interesting thought given this context.) It’s already been mentioned here that Rachel could have married her brother-in-law’s brother, which would just emphasize how far in the other direction she ran from the likes of Don.
I have to admit, this was the first time I really liked Peggy. And Bobbie's advice to her was excellent. I'm finding Bobbie intriguing, although she's been difficult to warm up to as a character. She's not your typical woman you love to hate in the vein of Alexis Carrington or Erica Kane, but she is fascinating — degenerate, but fascinating. She has a definite Barbara Stanwyck vibe, so I can see how she comes across as harsh.
The name issue continues to baffle me. I'll allow that Betty went by an alias while she was modeling, but Hofstadt? Not your typical stage name — particularly so soon after World War II. Would anyone have deliberately chosen something so German-sounding then?
Turns out Tilden Katz was the blind date that Barbara was trying to arrange for Rachel in Indian Summer. It also appears that Barbara's name was changed from Katz to Zax in that episode…which is still too many z's for one family.
Usually I love plot twists, especially if I don't see them coming, but I have to admit I feel a little dicked around by them showing Anita pregnant. I have nothing against red herrings, but the actual truths should be more likely, not some bizarre coincidence, especially one that is uber convenient for the heroine.
Then again, it could have been Anita faking a pregnancy in order to adopt Pete Jr. I officially put nothing past this show anymore.
I DO like that they have answered a bunch of questions, only to add 15 more. In a way we know less than we did last week. Whose baby is it? How much did Don know? How deep was Peggy's denial?
Lots to love in this epi, tho. I laughed out loud when the segued from Pete and the porn mags to Roger playing with the ball on a string toy. (I had one of those.)
Anyone else think the “no salt” scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!” in its blatantness.
Don did have that ‘we’re gonna deliver a stillborn’ line for the AA pitch. It is possible that Anita’s baby died and she’s raising Peggy.
And at the end of last season we know that Peggy’s baby survived and if Anita is raising Peggy’s baby as her own the resentment could be partly over the fact that Peggy’s survived while her’s didn’t…we’ll see.
I don’t know if anyone saw this yet, but one of my friends alerted me that they held the Season 2 Wrap Party last night in LA. There are photos up at wireimage.com.
Kind of makes me sad that they’ve wrapped already. I want them to film forever… you know with the occassional vacation in there so they can rest a bit.
But at least we get 13 amazing episodes in the season.
A few things made this episode fantastic! First, Rachel Menken Katz! I knew she’d make Don’s life messy if she returned, but had no idea he’d be “messed up”–literally! Second, Mrs. Unfunny Comic rocks! Third, dammit, Don! Can you be any more appealing as a faithless, sexy bastard who mentors ambitious young ladies? Finally, minimal SAB!!! The less whine, the better!
What a fantastic episode!!! Peggy rocks!!
Thank you DON…I LOVE IT!!!
so Anita was preggers too…hmmmmmmm.
She knows the whole “be a woman†line for what it is (She tried that and ended up pregnant,) but she also knows that she should stand up for herself. But she also wants to be a decent person, to be loyal to Don because of what he did for her, not just out of office politics and her own ambitions.
Interesting, very interesting. I also took Bobbie’s like to mean that Peggy is clearly not someone who can out-muscle men on their own terms, so she can’t play the game exactly as they do (hence the “no one told me there was a meeting” shot in the intro), but she should still play it using whatever strengths she does have – an echo of Joan’s advice from the pilot. You’re right that Peggy failed at being a “Joan,” but she succeeded at being the surprising girl – the one who came up with great stuff when you wouldn’t expect it. She’s an outsider, a Brooklyn woman in a room full of Manhattan men, not unlike her sort-of mentor, Don Draper.
Whether it’s subconscious or not, I think Don sees a lot of himself in Peggy. She is not from the right background to get ahead (albeit a bit better than being a dead prostitute’s kid), but she’s doing it anyway, with her own version of drive and determination (if a bit grimmer version than Don’s). She even has the emotional trauma at a young age, just like Dick/Don. Even before he found out about her secret, he was gently encouraging her – the whole “think about it very deeply, then let it go” (paraphrasing) advice, which was a brilliant description of a creative process. He certainly didn’t cover for a three-month absence and a stay in a mental ward (there is no way Don does not know exactly where she is when he visits) just because she came up with some good lipstick copy. I think she’s the first new employee at Sterling Cooper that Don ever saw as similar to himself. That she’s a woman is just another sign of the social eruptions about to take place.
So I really liked how Peggy stepped up her game at the end of the episode (she is so my favorite character now). AND she did it in her own subtle way. She was not just getting the $$ back, she was gently reminding Don that they are now linked in a web of covering for each other. She was not threatening like Pete did in Season one, but I think she was clearly indicating she was going to use her more complex relationship with “Don” to her own advantage. If I’m not mistaken, she had a slight shift in her clothes as well – a little more modern and flattering, but not overtly sexual. Peggy’s evolving into a mini-Gloria Steinem
Some other thoughts on the episode – How smug did Rachel look when she spotted Bobbie? The irony was perfect – Mr. Katz is no Don, but Bobbie is no Rachel either, and Mrs. Katz knows it. There was a great look of “you so traded down, buddy” when she talked to Don.
Anita’s baby – so maybe Peggy’s baby was given up for adoption, and Anita was also pregnant. Which means Fr. Gill may have made a hugely incorrect assumption when he dropped that egg on poor Peggy last week. We clearly were led to belive the little blond boy is Peggy’s, but he could just be a nephew (damn you Weiner!). The only problem with that theory is, why would Anita want Peggy to say good night to her kids (as she did the first time we visited Brooklyn), if the baby is not Peggy’s?
Oh, and I give Pete and Trudy about 5 more years, tops. Could he be more insensitive?
**Anyone else think the “no salt†scene at home was one of this show’s most unsubtle hints at how bland his home life is (or how he views it)? Most of Mad Men is really underplayed, but that just scene came running around the house and banging a pot and shouting “Oklahoma!†in its blatantness.**
I'm going to agree with you, Tom. I'm sure Betty did mean it lovingly, but to Don I think it would be more reason to not want to be there, emasculating, making his home less of his castle, etc.
It also means she's sMothering him.
@CPT_Doom: I think when Peggy was in the hospital for all that time, Marjorie made other arrangements. Don said he called Peggy's home and the roommate said to call her mother. Peggy must have moved home for a while and then when Peggy was ready to move out, she was kinda Fuck It about finding a new roomie.
@Ms. D: I disagree about the salt thing feeling emasculating to Don. He called her "Bets." It was the first time in a long time we've heard him sound quite that homey with her. "Awww, Bets" sounds sweet to my ears.
If Peggy’s baby died/or supports the theory that there was some sibling rivalry. I could see something unspoken like this making slight annoyances much worse. But I will stop speculating now.
I loved the encounter with Rachel. No wonder Don went with Bobbi; if you can’t be with the one you love, screw around with the one you’re with.
@ ihavesmokeinmyeyes #302
“You’ll be SHOCKED by how much it never happened.â€
I find myself haunted by Don’s line that I posted above. It keeps repeating in my head since the episode ended.
Don believes that line to his very soul. He HAS to. And Peggy is trying to believe it, too. How much they can manage to believe it, and try to make it true (probably an impossibility, but they’re going to try) will define them.
@Kay and Jan, I too found myself liking Bobbie this episode. Never thought that’d happen! (o: I really liked how she pointed out to Peggy that what she was doing was worth a lot — i.e., she shouldn’t undervalue herself.
I also *kinda* liked Pete.
Oh, and regarding Anita being “old” to be pregnant — my mom was 45 when I was born. No fertility drugs or anything. Way back in the’60s. But I’m curious now about the baby she was carrying in that scene.
@Deborah, I agree about the salt. I think it’s more that Don knows he should be happy with the fact that he is loved and that he loves his family (in spite of his philandering), but it simply isn’t fulfilling him.
@Ellelque, I do think Clooney is dumb, but it’s just my opinion, as others, including you, express theirs on this blog. To each his own.
Finally, I think my favourite moment in this episode was when Peggy called Don, “Don”. Bobbie’s influence!
@CPT_Doom #318
So I really liked how Peggy stepped up her game at the end of the episode (she is so my favorite character now). AND she did it in her own subtle way. She was not just getting the $$ back, she was gently reminding Don that they are now linked in a web of covering for each other. She was not threatening like Pete did in Season one, but I think she was clearly indicating she was going to use her more complex relationship with “Don†to her own advantage. If I’m not mistaken, she had a slight shift in her clothes as well – a little more modern and flattering, but not overtly sexual. Peggy’s evolving into a mini-Gloria Steinem
That’s how I’m seeing it, too, or at least I hope that’s what’s happening. I’d hate for Don to see it as Peggy beginning to turn on him. Their relationship has a basis of mutual trust. What was it that Peggy said about trust while driving him and Bobbie, right before she said “this can be fixed?” Some thing about “I need for you to trust me?” Can’t remember exactly.
Why when I saw Rachel did I think of that old book “Marjorie Morningstar?”
@Rondi….My mom was 40 when I was born! No fertility drugs either! All she needed was a little Marvin Gaye crooning in the background! LOL!
LOL, you could be right. I'm just thinking about where he was last year — eating and drinking whatever pleased him. And unsalted food is a sad, sad thing.
I can understand where he might be touched, but can he live this way?
Just a few observations on The New Girl which I found the best episode of season 2 so far. I kept hoping Rachel would come back into Don’s life as I thought she was one of the more positive characters, but I sort of feel she will disappear now with her new husband. There still seem to be sparks between her and Don, so maybe she will return.
I agree with Andrea that Don and Peggy are similar. I was trying to figure out why Don called Peggy when he ended up in jail — then we had the flashback where Don visits her at St. Mary’s hospital and it all made sense. I expect to see a lot more about their relationship. Loved her calling him Don.
I have previously loathed Bobbie Barrett but I sensed she was being somewhat humanized in this episode. I still hope she doesn’t become a fixture.
Trudy and Pete — if Trudy doesn’t have children, there will be nothing in her life — she will have no reason for existence. In her mind her life will be totally empty. Clearly Pete wants to be the child in this marriage — how would he deal with sharing Trudy with a real child?
To me, Mad Men is the most enigmatic show I have seen since Twin Peaks. The Anita pregnancy opens up so many questions. Back story is slowly being revealed.
I will add that I live in Manhattan right across the street from the old Madison Square Gardens where Marilyn Monroe sang Happy Birthday to JFK — the building was demolished and replaced by a complex known as World Wide Plaza. However there are old timers in the neighborhood who remember the famous birthday party.
Virginia
There was a great look of “you so traded down, buddy†when she talked to Don.
A look of “you haven’t changed,” I think. He’s still a married man, still philandering. He told Rachel he loved her, that he wanted to be with her, and a woman having an affair wants to believe it’s a unique situation, not that the guy is just a habitual cheater. Rachel and Don in this episode parallel Joan and Roger; both realize that these are just men who cheat, not men who cheat only in special and unique circumstances that somehow justify it.
As viewers and blog posters try to unravel the mystery of Peggy's child/ Anita being pregnant/ hospital flashback clues; we must remember that Anita being shown pregnant happened during Peggy's flashback about her connection to Don.
We have been shown that Peggy "disconnected" from her pregnancy and the resulting child.
Don: "Why are you here?"
Peggy: "I don't know."
If we are to believe the final scene of the first season, when the nurse brought the baby boy in to Peggy and she turned away, then we are to assume the child lived.
But after denying her pregnancy for it's full term, and not having the child afterward, Peggy must somehow "forget" it ever happened, like Don told her to.
In the first flashback from "The New Girl", we must remember it is a flashback AS SEEN FROM PEGGY'S PERSPECTIVE. The main purpose of the flashback is to establish her connection to Don, to explain her trip to the Police Station and taking in Bobbie Barrett for convalesence.
As she lies in the hospital bed, with the doctor talking to her, it's completely possible that she, AND ONLY SHE sees Anita as being pregnant. That might be the coping mechanism that her mind has established, to allow her to move on from this, as Don told her to.
In her "new" reality, she was never pregnant, she has moved on. When her mother and sister came to visit her, it was Anita who was almost 9 months pregnant, it was Anita who gave birth, and the young, blonde boy is Anita's- according to Peggy's created reality, after "moving forward".
The series has already established that all flashbacks do not mirror reality.
Don ended Season 1 with a Normal Rockwell flash-forward of a Happy Thanksgiving trip with his family, only to come home to an empty house.
Maybe Anita being pregnant is just how Peggy chooses to remember what happened. Just an idea.
Boweed,
Very interesting theory — I like it.
However, the Thankgiving scene was a fantasy and not a flashforward, and instantly shown to be such. So, it wasn't a subjective view of reality, or reality with one detail amiss, but a complete fabrication.
Anyhow, I like the scenario you present, even though it opens up more questions.
In the first episode of season 2 when Peggy was visiting her mom and sister, when Peggy went to leave her sister says, “don’t you want to say hello”. Peggy opens the door and there’s two cribs, each with one baby, so her sister’s baby did survive, and her mother is raising Peggy’s baby. I am confused as why there was only one baby when they were at church in the second episode, maybe they don’t want to have both in public at the same time?
Boweed, interesting scenario, but I would find it surprising to see MM working that way. So very "So Long, Farewell, and Good Luck" if you know what I mean.
In the first flashback from “The New Girlâ€, we must remember it is a flashback AS SEEN FROM PEGGY’S PERSPECTIVE. ..
As she lies in the hospital bed, with the doctor talking to her, it’s completely possible that she, AND ONLY SHE sees Anita as being pregnant. That might be the coping mechanism that her mind has established, to allow her to move on from this, as Don told her to.
Sorry, Bow, but that is too far-fetched. There was nothing about the style of the flashback to indicate it was in any way a distortion; it is stylistically consistent with every other flashback in the series, none have which have been subsequently revealed to be a false or twisted memory.
Deborah, I agree; I'm pretty sure it's the same apartment. I was trying to compare shots of Peggy's room in this season to some from last season, and they could be the same, just with a better paycheck to throw in a little decor and some lights. It is hard to say though, based on my comparison, but your scenario sounds plausible.
I know I saw two babies in the bedroom in epoisode one of season two, one a bit older then the other, so there are two children.
I am not bothered by the name thing so much, because, as I said, we are confused by names that appeared in credits, not in the show. They have never contradicted themselves between two names that aired. I’m not sure how much attention is paid to those credited names.
Plus, Barbara and Rachel marrying relatives would not be unheard of. My (our) grandparents actually met at a family reunion: Nana’s brother was married to Papa’s cousin. It was very important for Jews to meet and marry other Jews, and there’s still a lot of the shtetl in a lot of these communities in New York.
It would take a lot to get me to like Bobbie, but one thing made me begin to feel sorry for her: The exchange where she asked if Peggy was in love with Don, then asked if Peggy wanted to know if she (Bobbie) was in love with him. If Bobbie is actually in love with Don, poor her. She was obviously too drunk to register it when Don said “I don’t feel a thing” while they were driving.
Re-reading the comments, I realize I completely misquoted Don’s “You’ll be shocked” line. Ah, well. My main point was the emotional impact that line made.
I agree that Peggy looks slightly different in the last scene. She’s wearing a straight skirt, not a poufy one. She’s also wearing a more professional-looking blouse – is this the last of the round collars? Much more business-like.
I could swear that there was only one baby in the crib in that bedroom in Flight 1, when Anita asks “aren’t you going to say goodnight?” There were two other kids, both in beds: one was sleeping, and the other said “hi Aunt Peggy.”
The new girl could refer to any number of women: Jane Segal, Peggy, Bobbie (in the context of replacing Rachel). That Jane is rather craven – flashing the guys, asking Ken point-blank for his title. Do I smell a gold-digger?
Man, as much as Roger is a skunk and a child who can’t face his own mortality, he sure is funny. That paddleball scene was hilarious. I had one of those toys!
The only explanation I would be willing to accept is that Anita faked a pregnancy and took in Peggy's baby. I don't remember if there were two babies in the crib or not, if there was an older baby it would be more plausible that Anita had a young child before. The idea that she was coincidentally pregnant at the same time as Peggy is just irritating and more worthy of a soap opera script than MM's intriguing writing.
Something that struck me as odd was Bobbi calling Peggy young and pretty, was that a clever way of saying young and naive??? Peggy is a lot of things but pretty is not an adjective that comes to mind. Or is Bobbi merely envying Peggy's youth and to her being young is synonymous with pretty?
One thing that I loved that Bobbi said was "choose a job and become the person that does it" That is the best business advice I have ever heard. Isn't that what Harry the head of the TV department did, although he could have carried it a lot further.
I am hoping Peggy will take the "Be a woman" advice to mean she should dress better. It would be great to see her dressing like the other business women on the show – Bobbi and Rachel.
What does everyone think of Peggy's relationship with her mother. I find it strange. Anita is always struggling for her mother's and everyone else's approval, while Peggy who doesn't value it so readily receives it.
Did anyone else notice the “be in touch with your body” poster in the fertility doctor’s office? Not being in touch with your body, (and through that your spirit), is one of the major reoccurring theme of the whole series. Peggy’s pregnancy is the most obvious one. Roger crying that he did everything right to avoid a heart attack though everything we see him do is heart attack baiting, comes close, (and given what MW has said in interviews about Peggy’s pregnancy, I believe that he sees the two as very similar).
I did not see two babies in the crib on Flight 1. splashofme has that clip up on youtube, for whoever wants to check it out.
A couple of bits of dialog really struck me this episode:
Peggy relating the story of the little boy who died after falling off the swings seemed to have particular significance. She became a little melancholy when she told that story, I thought, which was weird because she hasn’t shown much emotion when talking about children. I’m wondering if an accident such as that happened to one of the babies?
Then there was the whole discussion of “business” between Don and his paramours/business associates, which may or may not relate back to the themes of prostitution that have been so prominent this season. When Bobbie calls Don and asks him to meet her at Sardi’s she says something along the lines of “you can call it business.” But Don says “no, let’s not confuse this.” Then Rachel shows up and tells her husband that Don did some “business” for her, at which point Bobbie introduces herself, and Don immediately responds with it’s business — “her husband works for me.” Rachel then counters with “he’s all business, isn’t he,” which, MEOOOWW. (I guess Katz is the right name, LOL.) But it was all so seamy and charged with sexuality.
There was also an armless model of a woman in the doctor’s office – almost like Venus di Milo – further driving home the point of being disconnected from your body and self.
I believe Bobbie actually said beautiful.
Rachel’s “business” remark has another meaning: Her husband doesn’t know she had an affair with a married gentile. Don isn’t the only one keeping secrets.
I think it would be outstanding if Ken develops feeling for Jane. Bout time that man had some emotional scenes.
@ Deborah: watch Frank Oz's "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" and the reference will make perfect sense (re: banging a pot and shouting "Oklahoma!")
Anyone else here watched "Rome" from HBO? First thing that came to mind when Bobbie gave her, "You'll never be a man, so be a woman and work with that," speech was Atia and Servilia and the various ways they used exactly what made them not men to manipulate the men around them. Very smart and forthright of her to give the advice.
Hey Kay, I tell you there is a large amount of men in my past, including my husband who don’t seem to get how affective a good Marvin Gaye song can affect your ability to procreate. LOL
Outstanding episode! My take on when Don said “I don’t feel a thing” was that, in addition to being hammered, he was also emotionally empty. He seems to be struggling for meaning this season as do many characters.
My take on the “whose kid is that” debate is that the baby we’ve seen is indeed Anita’s but born shortly after Peggy’s. I’m guessing Peggy’s child was put up for adoption and the presence of a nephew almost the same age is a painful reminder to Peggy, thus her awkwardness around the child.
I love the Don and Peggy story. No doubt he sees her as a kindred spirit.
I’m guessing Peggy’s child was put up for adoption and the presence of a nephew almost the same age is a painful reminder to Peggy, thus her awkwardness around the child.
If that is true, it makes Anita really horrible. By forcing Peggy to confront her absent child through her own nephew (and that’s exactly how you’d have to interpret her urging Peggy to say good night to the kids) Anita is just twisting the knife she’s got plunged into Peggy’s back.
Interesting that Peggy has her own place now – no roomate to fight over the phone bill with. Also easier to keep secrets if you don’t have a set of prying eyes.
I think it is the opposite. Peggy’s lived and Anita’s died. Hence some of the motive behind Anita’s malice.
I think Peggy's baby went for adoption — wouldn't be a kicker if Trudy and Pete ended up adopting it! Or Joan!
LOL, Andrea — that would be Dynasty territory, not sure how I would feel about that.
@DarkEmpress #350
What does everyone think of Peggy’s relationship with her mother. I find it strange. Anita is always struggling for her mother’s and everyone else’s approval, while Peggy who doesn’t value it so readily receives it.
Good point, though I don't see it as strange. Peggy is obviously The Favorite, the smart ambitious one, and her mother, a formidable woman (I like her!), feels no need to apologize for encouraging her. Peggy no doubt takes it for granted, while Anita, the Good Dutiful Daughter, resents it.
2 things
1. Peggy told a story to Bobbie about a little boy who fell off a swing, went to sleep and died. Anita's child perhaps?
2.In Season 1, a while ago. Was'nt there an episode where Pete only got to keep his job because of who his father was? What happens now that Pete's Pop is dead?
I think it is Pete's mothers family name not because of who is father was. His mother's family used to own part of New York. They are OLD money. So old it is almost gone. However, the name is very powerful still.
Yup, it's Pete's mother with the name; and it was episode 1:04; New Amsterdam.
Here's my take on Peggy's role in the family… I think she's the one they feel sorry for. I think she's kind of the runt, figuratively. Her mother keeps saying she's pretty. Elisabeth Moss is so brilliantly cast; she can be both beautiful and equally un. So maybe her mother has always made this point of kissing her ass and trying to boost her confidence because she thinks she's kind of a non-pretty loser. To me, that matches the meek Peggy we first met. And no wonder her sister resents it, because she's not buying it.
Any chance Rachel disapperaed on her European cruise (which was announced to Don via Cooper alluding it was BECAUSE of Don [this from Rachel's father]) because she was pregnant.
She was a woman who wanted to marry for love. Seems odd she fell in love with a man totally opposite Don in such short time and got married …. unless "she had to."
Rose, the idea has definitely been kicked around.
Roberta, I disagree on Peggy. There's a history of stories involving parents being harsher to the "good" children and indulging the "screw-ups." Going all the way back to stories like that of the prodigal son in the Bible.
Sure, but look at Peggy. Look who she was… she didn't look like a screw-up, pre-Pete. She looked like a mouse. A churchmouse, even.
I mean, we don't know. This is all conjecture. But she's not that kind of pretty, dresses like the Amish, and was a virgin (we assume). The getting drunk and making out in hallways feels like making up for a wasted youth… but with very strict limits.
I agree, but it's like the prodigal son story. We hear what happens when he returns from his wayward journey–not that he was bad before he left.
"Because she's ugly," is such a shallow reason for the mother to support her.
I have been reading the comments about Peggy, and wanted to add:
Peggy dresses like crap because she doesn't want to appear alluring to the men she is trying to work along side. She is not their assistant or secretary, she sees herself as an equal and does not want to be used by them sexually like the assistants and secretaries. Do you remember the psychiatrist in the first episode? She was just like that. She wanted to be respected as a professional, not seen as a sexual object and therefore dressed without allure.
Anita looks just like her mother–she even wears the same hairstyle. She has taken the road her mother has so much so that she dresses the part. Perhaps she is being rejected by her mother, because her mother doesn't like the role she was shoved into. Maybe she really wanted to be a free spirit like Peggy. Peggy still wears her hair in a ponytail, like a little girl. So maybe her mother treats her like a little girl because of it.
I loved how Peggy gave a little nod to Bobbie at the office and how Bobbie raised her eyebrow in acknowledgment. It was like saying thanks, your advice worked.
Whoah, I never said it was because she was ugly. It's because her mother thinks she is plain and weak and may not attract a man, which is of course her only value. She's 20 when we meet her, and isn't dating, and her mother is fixing her up, because sure this secretarial school thing got her a job, but it's not as if she can just work her whole life, is it? She doesn't have it easy like Anita, who found a husband and has her life.
Not saying the whole thinking isn't screwed up, but it's what I think is the dynamic. Poor little Peggy. And now that this has happened, she doesn't know what to make of her.
Gee, why didn't I think of the prodigal son thing?
rose, we’ve discussed it, and maybe it was an outside chance before, but it certainly seems like the new hubby didn’t know she’d had an affair, so I doubt there could be a child, although an abortion is possible.
Susan, I really disagree. Peggy dressed like that when she was a secretary, and even when she thought the job was being alluring. This is Peggy, this is how she’s comfortable, repressed but comfortable.
Betts, no salt?
you'll see, you'll get used to it … it's for your own good
Could the salt also be Rachel?
Roberta, you said you think her mother views her as "non-pretty." As in the opposite of pretty, or it's antonym. Which is "ugly."
I'm saying I think the thousands-of-years-old prodigal son tale is much more viable for the story basis than her mother thinking she's got a homely loser on her hands. That'd be horrifically shallow of her.
Gotta have a 'Don on the Beach'!
Tom, I would say that pretty and ugly exist on a continuum, wherein there is a large grey middle area of "not-pretty" and "plain" and "okay looking" and the like.
Herd, love the connection to episode 1!
Season 1, Episode 1, In Don’s Office, Peggy (water and aspirin in hand) wakes Don who’s lying on his floor asleep. Don looks up at her, squints and says, ‘who are you?’. She replies,”I’m peggy… THE NEW GIRL”.
As far as Peggy being the "favorite" in the family, the youngest child is frequently seen as the favorite in families. The baby of the family tends to be treated as such for life, while the oldest usually has to be the more responsible and self-sufficient. Parents can easilytake for granted how good their oldest child is and equally overlook the flaws of their youngest. I've seen it many times myself in real life.
Tom,
Did you see my post on this? http://www.lippsisters.com/2008/08/19/bless-me-fa…
I'm not sure if anyone asked, but do you think they'll resolve Peggy's baby question in the upcoming episodes? Is Season 3 confirmed?
Season 3 won't be confirmed for months, but we feel confident. I do think we've been purposely teased about Peggy's baby and the questions will be answered soon. Weiner promised that Season 2 would not be a "reveal the mystery" season like Season 1 was.
Late to the party this week…great ep. LA NOTTE is one of my favorite 60s films. So existential. So sexy.
About season 3: since the 'win a part' contest says it is for a part on season 3…wasn't that a bit of a renewal notice?
I'm new to posting but have been FASCINATED by all the threads on this site, and have learned so much! Thank you all!
I re-watched this episode and really think that Peggy gave the baby up for adoption. When Don asks her in the hospital what they want her to do, and she says "I don't know," Don says, intensely, "Yes you do. Do it." I can't imagine that they were asking her to do anything other than sign over the baby to be adopted. Maybe she was having trouble doing that and on some level was staying willfully oblivious because signing the baby over would be admitting that she'd HAD a baby. And I think it would be much harder to pretend that she had never had a baby if it was living with her sister.
I surmise that her sister told her to look in on the kids in the earlier episode because she had probably been close to her nieces & nephews before all this happened and now won't go near them, especially her sister's baby. The kid who said, "Hi Aunt Peggy" was obviously very happy to see her. And maybe the only way Peggy can get through it all is to stay shut down around them now.
I love this show.
Wendy
Welcome Wendy! I suspect that what they wanted her to do was admit she'd had a baby. There is plenty of evidence that they didn't need her signature to put the baby up for adoption. The state didn't think she could make her own decisions, Anita said.
Thank you!
I see your point about her having lost her legal rights to make that decision. Ok, then maybe she was having to prove her sanity, in terms of being in touch with reality, by admiting she'd had a baby. Poor Peggy. Though I am intrigued by the changeling idea, it seems unlikely to me that Anita's baby died just when Peggy gave birth. Maybe MW was just signaling us that the baby we've seen is not Peggy's.
It's interesting to me that Peggy's mother, who seems so religious and observant (two different things) would have forgiven Peggy and acted like it never happened. But maybe Peggy gets her "forgetting skills" from her mother. And much as I was infuriated by Anita's "confession," the emotions she feels are believable to me. She plays by all the rules, emulating her mother even in her hair and dress (as some of you already pointed out) and still Peggy is the favorite and never has to pay any consequences (as far as Anita can see.)
Wendy
But maybe Peggy gets her “forgetting skills†from her mother.
Great insight!
Here's a little present for you guys who like deep background (and/or Antonioni and/or 60s cultural artifacts):
La Notte – the opening credits…so modern…
La Notte – A key scene
(and this guy seems to have several more scenes posted)
My speculation on Peggy/Anita and their roles in the family:
Peggy was the runt, as Roberta said — the strange child, rather plain, does things a little differently, but definitely smart. As a kid, she probably had trouble fitting in. Her mother is just thrilled that she appears to be succeeding now, especially given her recent "troubles."
Anita, on the other hand, probably fit in as a kid, and played well with others. Other kids probably liked her more than her sister. As an adult, she's grown into someone who fulfills conventional roles. She feels that she did everything right, and is not a "weirdo", and hence her resentment of Peggy's elevated status.
I'm not sure I agree that Peggy's the "runt." The feeling I get is that she's the pampered baby of the family. I believe her Mom thinks of Peggy as her smart, beautiful daughter and always has.
Anita has always been the very dutiful daughter doing what was expected with little recognition while Peggy's been lavished with praise and attention. Thus, simmering resentment.
I thought it was interesting in Anita's confession that she said that Peggy was bringing her mother great pain. Peggy's mom really doesn't seem that bothered by the pregnancy. She very lovingly said to Peggy at the hospital, "Peaches, I'm leaving but I'm not going anywhere."
Anita was posing to to be pregnant to save face for the family. Back in the old days it was not uncommon for relatives of an unwed catholic mother to raise the child as their own and never let them know otherwise. Bobby Darrin's grandparetns raised him as their own son whe nit was his "sister" who actually gave birth to him when she was a teen. Living as a bastard would haven been a cruel fate back in those unforgivin times. I beleive Jack Nicholson's aunt raised him as her own son when her sister had a unwed pregnancy. I know of a few storis like this from my irish cathloc family from back in the 50s and 60s. Anita had to play along and look pregant for a few weeks before bringing the baby home so people wouldn't gossip when a new baby arrived
regarding Peggy and her sister being pregnant at the same time.
It could be that Anita's pregnancies helped Peggy stay in denial through her own. She could look at her sister, say "that is what pregnancy looks like, not this weight gain I am experiencing." The tension between the sisters is more about life choices. Anita sees Peggy's choices as a judgment on her (or jealous), and then acts judgmentally towards her.
I am not sure if Peggy currently is denying that the baby ever happened, or just denied a sympathetic ear. I am hopping the latter.
@ProgGrrl #383
Great links! I always loved Antonioni, and though I haven't seen La Notte in years, those clips bring it all back. A great choice to reflect Don's state of mind. Antonioni's movies were all about restless dissatisfied upper-class people, people who had everything materially yet felt lost and empty without understanding why. It's no wonder Don responds to it.
Unfortunately, I am not an Antonioni fan. Bring out the dancing mimes! Geez Pete. I like some very abstract films—Brewster McCloud comes to mind—but there's something about Antonioni that feels empty to me, and not in the "Oh, how profound, it's about emptiness" way. Or maybe I just don't think that being "about emptiness" is profound.
I tried L'Avventura and Blowup, two of his most famous and acclaimed films, and kind of hated them both. I do think two is enough in a case like this.
I never ever try to argue people into liking movies. It never works, they just resist more. Besides, I didn't like Blow Up either.
I do think that the La Notte reference is a great bit of shorthand for Don and Bobbie's attitudes. In La Notte, especially, which is about a marriage coming apart, Don must surely see himself and his own lostness. Bobbie just swoons that it's "so sexy."
I'm surprised that so many people see the final "no salt" family scene as loving. To me, the look on Betty's face was grim. She's punishing and controlling him.
For Betty, loving Don is kind of a grim task. He lies to her, he won't satisfy her rage, he cheats, and now she finds out he's been withholding this information about his health.
Inanna…I thought the "no salt" was yet another "smothering" maneuver. And another way to be passive-aggressive.
No wonder Don has high-blood pressure….
Inanna, I agree with you. I thought that final scene was incredibly cold. He even refuses to eat after that. He just sits there. The rest of the family continues to eat, and he becomes…a pillar of salt.
OK, here's the Don on the Beach recipe I tinkered up last Sunday (per Ellelque's banana/cherry comment) – tastes a bit like a Rusty Nail, but less sweet:
1 pt Rye (because "Mr Draper drinks rye")
1/2 pt creme de banane
1/4 pt cherry brandy/kirsch
On the rocks, in an old-fashioned, toss in a maraschino cherry, and toast your friends with Don's wry smile!
And you must place your "Don on the Beach" on a tall, phallic looking glass.
Just have to give a shout-out to Fred Rumson, for stealing Ken Cosgrove’s thunder with his …. um, zipper music.
“Mozart!”
Everybody has his instrument — I guess now we know what Freddie’s is.
But is "Don on the Beach" any substitute for a mostly-naked Jon Hamm covered in sand? Hmm?
I find the interpretation of the final scene as grim or Betty being controlling interesting. It's definitely not what I thought. If you watch the behind the scenes on the episode…I like what Wiener has to say about it. Betty is taking care of him.
Oh, and I just noticed someone responded to my Porn/Pete comment.
Those were two different thoughts:
1. I was wondering if they gave you porn in the 60s for sperm sampling…apparently they do.
2. I think, in general, Pete's an asshole. (Not because he looked at porn)
1) They gave porn to Dennis Quaid in The Right Stuff. Same-ish time period.
2) Pretty much.
Re: The Pete /Porn scene.
My very favorite choice for the Emmy for editing:
Pete picking up the porn magazine, heading to the chair – what's that sound?- cut to Roger with the paddle ball game, just like Marilyn Monroe in The Misfits.
Oh! And congratulations for being our record-breaking 400th comment on a single thread.
ooh, a Misfits reference. I like.
I know I’m really late on this, but I don’t think Trudy is really infertile. The viewers got this info second-hand and I could totally see her taking the blame to preserve Pete’s manhood – he’s had a difficult year. I think she expected more sympathy from him when she said that – perhaps that’s part of what she “didn’t think through” when she decided to take the blame. He’s immature and completely self-absorbed.
PLUS, for some reason I never thought he was really the father of Peggy’s baby. This would make for a great twist on the “Who’s the daddy” mystery, no? Perhaps there is something more to the sibling rivalry in her family than we’ve seen.