All of them in service roles, except for the beatnik party.
But each one was cast with a memorable actor… I identified that busboy by his voice alone, I can still hear the voice of the woman in the ladies room (if those purses get any smaller); Hollis and Sonny–the elevator operators, the janitor who witnessed carnal couch-age, and Carly/Carla. All strong presences. To most of the characters on Mad Men, they are invisible; barely even window dressing as the scenes are set. But Weiner made sure they jumped off the page.
(Grant you, race aside, every bit role in this series seems to be well cast and fully rounded. It’s like, if they decided to go back and focus on any of the characters that have ever had a single line and give them a fuller storyline, they’d have an actor who could well carry it. Any of the other neighbors from Marriage of Figaro. The salesgirl who wouldn’t give cash back for the chip-and-dip. Helen Bishop’s ex-husband.)
Weiner is still being accused, right here, in our own Basketcases’ comments, of neglecting to show more blacks. He’s not neglecting anything. He is being very, very deliberate in his moves. This is a show about a white man’s world, and he is working his way out of that circle. The white women are the next ring out (I’m picturing rings around a planet here; work with me) and then we meet some Jews. We’re getting to the blacks; their story is coming. I do suspect that, as we all hope, we’ll be seeing more of Sheila White. But he’s not going to force it on us. If he had included a black person’s experience trying to be a copywriter in Season One, it would have been too heavy-handed; too preachy.
We’ll get there.
60 Responses to “Season One blacks”
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.
As much as the writing is wonderful on Mad Men, the casting has been equally "tight!" Honestly, knowing the subject matter and era in which the show was set, I was shocked to see as many blacks as I did on the show. Also, working in a service industry is not a bad thing because it is an honest living.
There's so much discussion of the few choices women had back then. And seeing more of Sheila and Carla's stories could illustrate another side of the coin. The legal and de facto road blocks for black ladies of that era was a reality.
Mad Men is Mr. Weiner's "bambino" and he will take all the time he wants in telling the "black story." (I'd argue that black women's stories are "women's stories" but I digress!)
No worries! Now, that Don Draper's getting his groove back, I'll be watching Mad Men….
I don't think anyone's trying to say that working in a service industry is a "bad thing", but the fact of the matter is that most African-Americans at the time worked in service because it was one of the few avenues open to them because of their skin color. They were barred in most cases from business and/or professions, except if they catered to other black people (there were black doctors, lawyers, and businessmen, but not around Sterling Cooper).
Of course black women's stories are "women's stories" but most people forget that the women's liberation movement that is to come later did more for white women than it did for women of color. It served all women, but I would argue, not equally.
I think what's notable – and consciously done, without question – is that what screentime black characters are getting in S2, their shots are longer, and beginning to show some hints of backstory.
Carla looking at Don's drink before declining his offer of a ride. Shiela politely tolerating Joan at the party.
Last year all the black characters were fleeting – Don paying off Hollis in RITF, the janitor, the food cart guy – all out of focus or tertiary.
That said, I would not be surprised if we've seen the last of Shiela. Since Paul is a poseur, and Joan's emsaculation was accurate (if not cruel), then it's not a long-term thing. He got to show her off to his buddies, so mission accomplished.
D'Oh! I forgot the food cart guy.
There are arguments for each prejudice being the same; injustice for one, injustice for all. And there are arguments for each being separate and should not be intermingled. Deborah has written a lot about how religious freedom and gay rights tie together, how anti-gay often comes down to misogyny; certainly anti-fat does.
Chilling words to Miss Celie:
My impression, on this site at least, is that the use of black characters isn't something to whine about. And for the most part, there's very little of it here. It's simply another interesting dimension to this very complex and engrossing show.
The show itself is a wide-ranging study of American society in the 1960's. I don't think you can tell that story honestly without including the black experience. In the years 1960 and 1962, we're just seeing the first ripples of the burgeoning Civil Rights Movement that started in the 1950's.
This blog is about one show in particular, so whining that goes on elsewhere is another matter.
Generally I sense that fans of the show are intrigued at how Matt Weiner has artfully portrayed black characters, even as they were not front-and-center.
Frankie,
I assure you it's just you. Or, certainly, not me, my sister or any representative of Basket of Kisses.
Roberta Lipp
No doubt Mr. Weiner is very deliberate in the way he paces things. It appears that the more visible blacks are this season is showing how blacks were becoming more visible socially. Of course there's the Civil Rights Movement, but also entertainment. The Motown Era's right around the corner as an example.
I'm finding this slow, but very deliberate expanded inclusion of blacks and Asians and other folks of color to be quite intriguing. Black folks have been part of the cast since the very first scene of the very first show. Plus, black males in authority have already been briefly shown because Dick Whitman's sergeant in Korea was an African-American. (I'm guessing that's to illustrate that the military embraced integration before the rest of the nation caught on….)
Again, I have to thank the Lipp Sisters and posters for having the guts to tackle race as a topic! For some reason, people get HOT and disrespectful when racial matters are brought up sometimes. That doesn't get any of us anywhere!
The conversation between the two Ladies Room attendants always makes me think of a different black character in the service industry in a predominantly white older cast. Remember that scene in The Palm Beach Story where Joel McCrea is asking about the man whom Claudette Colbert ran away with? The train porter lets him know that the man she is with is a bad tipper, "so she's alone, whether she knows it or not." Thank goodness that character is in the movie, because the white people all try and make nice with the rich white guy despite how stingy and possessive he is.
The Episode Ladies Room also includes a scene where Paul picks on the sandwich guy for his uniform, and the sandwich guy (sorry I can't remember his name) does a good job of deflecting, or at least not being bated.
Honestly, Kay, it doesn't feel 'gutful' at all. Talking about anything and everything, living the life of a vocal liberal, that is me and my sister.
Reverend Wright's a big Mad Men fan, BTW.
Another Basketcase, and I can't recall the poster's name, mentioned Caroline R. Jones, who was an ad exec. Plus, she just happened to be a woman and black. The notion that there was not one single black ad exec on Madison Avenue during the 1960s is incorrect.
Here's a link…. http://www.answers.com/topic/caroline-r-jones
I just want it to ring true and not feel forced. I don't want minorities to be non-existant mainly b/c they aren't in NYC, 25% of the population of NYC at that time is Jewish after all and a comparable percentage black. Conversely, I don't want them playing roles they wouldn't have at that time either, so no black Mad Men for instance.
I think the men and women are part of the same ring to use your metaphor. They were introduced together and their stories have been told side by side. To me it wouldn't actually remain true to the show to add or go out another ring to show the black experience or even the Jewish experience unless you're adding new main characters. I don't think Rachel gave us a good idea of the Jewish experience, she gave us a new view of Don. I don't think Weiner's idea is to tell the whole sweeping store of the 60's from every point of view except through the prism of a main character which usually serves to reveal more about that character than someone else's circumstances, like Sheila and Joan.
I find it weird that voicing an opinion on wanting to see more of a certain character, no matter how small the part, is called "whining."
Hell, I "whined" about Don being de-balled. And pondered no longer watching Mad Men because he was no longer da Man! Had no idea this week Don would get straight gangsta in the foyer of Lutece….
Mad Men keeps ya guessing!
**Of course there’s the Civil Rights Movement, but also entertainment. The Motown Era’s right around the corner as an example. **
Yes, I had noted the music playing at Paul's party in the episode thread. It was quite different from the Sinatra-type crooners we heard in the background in season 1 (aside from The Twist). Motown was founded in 1959 and was pretty much the pop music of the early 60s before and after The Beatles came into play. I think that the civil rights movement owes a lot to those artists (not being able to stay in segregated hotels in many places or having to enter through the kitchen, finally getting concerts desegregated, etc). That's another thing that's going to go over Don's head like the Volkswagon ad, I saw that only the younger crowd was at Paul's party. Not that I could really see Pete collecting Smokey Robinson 45s or anything, but you never know.
Sheila had the girl group hair down pat.
I think the representation of blacks is pretty accurate for the time and place and I appreciate what Weiner is doing. Personally, I've always had that issue with feminism mentioned above because my grandmother was Carla for much of her working life. So, you know, cry me a river Betty. But I can't say that it diminishes my enjoyment of the show.
Jackie, thank you!
You expressed exactly what I'd been trying to say for 2 weeks!
Yeah I ditto Jackie, and disagree heavily with Frankie who I think is being very insensitive. Period shows aside there AREN'T enough people of color on TV, movies, or in magazines. It's much more difficult to land roles as an actor, model, even in some cases a musician as a person of color. It's not whining, it's the truth.
Now, back to Mad Men, props to Jackie for hitting it on the button. Weiner I think works hard to portray everyone in society in the appropriate way for the period and the characters in question. I think he's conscious of the racial tensions and roles without being preachy and the party scene really did bring that nicely to light. I loved when Trudy was like "I've got nothing against negroes, I'm just worried about the car."
I have never been able to remember this show. It was a family drama, I never watched it, but I was home sick or something and I caught a Thanksgiving episode. My impression was that it was the drama of a white family and their black maid and her family drama in the '50s.
In this episode, we learn she became a maid to put her brother through college when their mother or father or someone died, and he was supposed to put her through college afterwards, but didn't, and is super insensitive to her lot in life. He asks her, utterly devoid of irony, how she can stand being a servant, and she says "I'm putting food on my son's table. And there's pride in doing it well."
I've always taken that with me. Honestly, I hear it in my head sometimes. To me, it's the essence of work. Work can be rewarding, fun, challenging, well-suited to your skills, or it can be none of those things. The bottom line should be, putting food on the table, and pride in doing it well.
I cleaned house in high school, and from there I used my dazzling typing skills to work in pink collar jobs after I dropped out of college, and so I have a sense of a job with no personal value except the pride in doing it well. I think privileged people forget that, and I think it's worth remembering. It means a lot to me.
The conversation between the two Ladies Room attendants (purses getting smaller) was unnecessary to the plot if the plot is only about the white people. Weiner is showing the underpinnings that hold up the artificial world the well-off live in. You have people in the service industry with their own lives and needs and stories that Mona and Betty don’t notice, but we get to see it. It’s a smart little bit of writing.
Feminism is full of conversations and arguments about how much feminism is “for” women of color, how inclusive it is, how privileged it is. And certainly, feminism is a big movement with big room for different opinions, different schools of thoughts, and profound ideological disagreements. There is certainly some feminism that is rooted in white women’s privilege, and there is certainly a lot of feminism that is diverse. When women gain greater opportunities, that’s good for women of any color, but that doesn’t mean all women have the same priorities about what’s good for women in their own communities.
Deborah,
was it perhaps an episode of "I'll Fly Away"? I've heard that it was an excellent show.
@Anne…The Wire was damn good TV! And it didn't get the recognition it deserved!
Oh, and on a shallow note….Idris Elba was sexy as hell!
Does anyone think Mad Men doesn’t accurately reflect minorities in the world that Don Draper et al live in? If you don’t this it’s accurate, then I can see wanting to see more minorities and if so what’s inaccurate? But if you think it’s an accurate reflection, then how do you work more in without it becoming a hokey after school special?
Pretty much what I'm saying.
Anne… no way are we offended by you liking another show more than you like MM. And the Wire has been #1 on my 'must get to' list forever.
And thanks, Brandon!
Jackie, thank you! That appears to be the show.
Frankie, you're right, it's just a coincidence that there isn't good writing for blacks on television and in the movies, it's not racism at all.
It's just a coincidence that there are so few good roles for women in the movies, and that only 20 of the last 58 Best Picture winners had any major roles for women at all, it's not sexism.
As soon as those coincidental factors clear up, everyone will happily watch the influx of great film and TV featuring important women and people of color. It's absolutely true!
Roberta,
Please don't get me wrong — my affection for MM is huge. I just saw a level of quality on "The Wire" that I never encountered anywhere else — even on "The Sopranos", which I also loved.
Also once, during a medical emergency, I had this episode where I swear I heard the voice of God. Sounded a lot like Marlo Stanfield (a key gangster on "The Wire"). Wouldn't you think God would sound more like, I don't know — James Earl Jones? Kathleen Turner? Jon Hamm?
All I know is, I have no interest in dying anytime soon.
By the way, I second Brandon's commendation of your work here. It's wonderful to have a place to say all of this!
I thought we wrote a troll policy, but I don't see it in 'About'. To be updated shortly. Bottom line is, if we don't like you, we don't have to tolerate you. We're not a democracy, we're a blog.
Here is Frankie's final comment. This, as all of them, have been deleted:
I see I have to deal with another group of liberal, oversensitive, PC types. Great. Listen, I’m an alpha male just like Don Draper, so cut the bullshit guys. I don’t give a flyin fuck if because Obama might win, that you think you have to be ashamed of being white in order to seem cool in this country. It’s 1962 during this season for christ’s sake! If you’re “worried†about black actors cast as servants, then you’re JUST like Paul, whom Joan was right about. Quit trying to show how much you love minorities by making these ridiculous arguments. It only reveals how hard your trying, and points out that you’re overcompensating in order to appear hip, and with it. Same thing applies with people who talk about how much they LOVE that Sal’s a gay character. Even the black dude who posted on here said he was fine with the way these blacks are portrayed on the show, so why are a bunch of white people even questioning Weiner’s judgment on racial issues? Just shut up and enjoy the show, and quit attacking people like me!
Frankie has now and forever left the building.
latenac, there is no need to examine the issue of "worried." Our troll was angry about comments no one made, which is classic modus operandi for trolls. We have magical powers to make trolls disappear. He's back under his bridge now, eating billy goats or whatever.
Anne, God's voice sounds like Daniel Dae Kim. Trust me on this.
No, no God sounds like Naveen Andrews with an Iraqi accent or wait are we talking about the voice of God or the voice of someone who makes you say "God"?
Courtney B. Vance has a very nice voice. I was thinking this, as my kid sat through yet another episode of some disgusting "Law & Order" knockoff. (Why does she watch that?) I thought, Wow: that'd be a nice voice for God to have.
I just know I don't want to hear those words. Ever. Again.
Why do Black people only get to be in Black shows and on Black networks? That sounds a lot like Jim Crow TV, to me. And frankly, I'm not interested in that.
I think when people question the dearth of Black (or other ethnic) characters on TV they're doing it within the context of seeing America–and the world, really–as it is: multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-hued, multi-classed, etc. Shows like Friends or Sex and the City, for example, purported to be about contemporary life in a big city–New York to be specific–but rarely showed any people of color, even as extras, walk-ons, or background fillers. Or contemporary shows about doctors that feature no Asian or Indian characters. Not only is that not realistic, it's offensive. Contemporary America is a rich and diverse place (and truth be told, it's always been such). Why shouldn't TV reflect it?
But to bring this back to Mad Men, I think Weiner is doing a decent job of depicting a small slice of reality for that time period. Sterling Coo is a third-tier agency, that's more and more becoming out-of-step with what's happening in the larger scheme of things. Yes, there were, in fact Black people working in corporate America and on Madison Avenue at that time in positions other than service jobs. Caroline Jones, whose story is a lot like Peggy's, is a great example of this, as well as Nat King Cole, who, in addition to selling millions of records, was also pitching cigarettes and beer to the masses, and his music was being used to do the same. For those of you who are really into trivial pursuit, the late Secretary of Commerce, Ron Brown, was even a child actor who pitched Pepsi Cola, of all things (he's the little boy in this ad here: http://bp0.blogger.com/_wL-r1NBJroE/RpKImOi8-QI/A…. Admittedly, that ad was actually created several years before Mad Men, but was still being used throughout the 1960s. In fact, Pepsi Cola was one of the first "mainstream" companies to recognize the power of the Black consumer, and created several sales and marketing strategies to address this burgeoning audience. Other companies like Proctor and Gamble, Coca Cola, Ford, and GM eventually followed suit.
Additionally, the financial ramifications of the lunch counter sit-ins and other boycotts were beginning to be felt. Companies like Woolworth's and Kresge's (which eventually became K-Mart), had to provide damage control, and sought out companies who could help them address these issues. And like the Martinson's Coffee people in FTWTY, they wanted their vendor partners and affiliated agencies to reflect the goals and desires of their customers. They needed assurances that the people with whom they did business were sensitive to what they needed to accomplish, and that they had people on staff who could help them meet those objectives.
At a firm like Sterling Cooper, which was behind the times in so many ways, the sting of these emerging societal pressures would be acute. Why not use that resistance and the conflicts that arise from this kind of situation as part of the overall dramatic arc of the series? It almost seems like a wasted opportunity not to deal with it.
Oh, and Idris Elba….mmmmmmmmm. Okay, back to work, me.
I don't think it's really a missed opportunity so much as a conscious choice. Sterling Cooper, as has been said time and again, is not cutting edge, not modern, and the people that run it are not part of the new wave of anything. It makes sense that they wouldn't be trying to tap into a black consumer market of any kind or be sensitive to changing social tides. That would be way to progressive for them, more suited to a sharp new agency like DDB.
And also, let's not forget that Sterling Cooper is a world away from the Greensboro sit-ins or any of the Civil Rights struggles of the South. The main Mad Men characters are educated, upper class people who would never regard themselves as racist, though they hold what we can see are clearly racist attitudes. They live in New York, not Birmingham. They don't have "Whites Only" drinking fountains or waiting rooms, though a more invisible racial caste system certainly did exist.
In a way, they're kind of like the Katharine Hepburn/Spencer Tracy characters in "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner". If you asked them about "negroes" they'd probably say they've "got nothing against them". Trudy said so in the Benefactor, right before they went into the party. BUT, she is terribly worried about "the car". And that's an attitude we still see being played out today (gotta love the Mad Men mirror)
It would seem forced or false I think for Weiner to dwell too much on race in the series. The changes that are to come in the 60s regarding civil rights are just one of the many threads that make up the background for the show, but the foreground is the character drama, and that drama takes place between people for whom racial issues are just not something they associate with their everyday worlds.
I remember the first scene of the “Mad Men” pilot: Don seated in a restaurant, smoking. Thinking about a pitch. A Black waiter comes over; he asks the man a few questions about what he smokes and why.
They’re just two guys talking; one of them’s looking for ideas. Don’s almost desperate, but trying not to show it.
A third man joins the scene — asks Don if the waiter is “bothering” him. Don sends man 3 away, but the waiter has to leave too.
It wasn’t a long scene, but it let us know exactly where we were: in what kind of world, at what time, playing by whose rules. I was hooked.
I spent most of Season 1 playing “find the brother”, in part because of that first scene. I wanted to see the balance between seen and the unseen worlds: the privileged, and those who have always, in every age, supported them. The Black experience mirrors the immigrant experience, like that of my husband’s mother (who came to this country at about the same time Season 2 begins — she cleaned houses too). Part of me watches this program to catch a glimpse of her.
I know that the brutality in the last episode was there for a reason. I know that the same was true for the lack of primary (or even secondary) Black characters in Season 1. I am hoping — but not expecting — this to change, in Season 2. I know the country I grew up in. This place is one big, slow ocean liner. It still takes a hell of a long time to turn it around.
As for there being no Black equivalents to Don Draper today — I’d have to disagree with that. We’ve got him in our office: smart, strategic, the best idea guy around (with the best portfolio and pedigree). He’s the only one anyone wants to work with, the guy everyone wants on every project. A family man, gorgous wife and kid. And naturally, he’s smoking hot.
Too bad I’ve learned my lesson about fishing off the company pier …
I have to admit it makes me bristle to comments that blacks could really only get service jobs during this era (early 1960s). The opportunities were not what they are now, but that's not quite the same thing as the door to professional life being closed to blacks altogether. On the other hand, the world was definitely more segregated back then and Don Draper wouldn't be likely to have much interaction with black doctors, teachers, lawyers, business owners, etc. in his day-to-day life.
The portrayal of blacks in Season 2 seems to indicate the show will move in a steadily more progressive direction, in terms of race, as the show continues, but… I don't think I would like it if MM makes it seem like blacks could only be maids and cashiers and elevator operators until the Civil Rights Act was passed and voila, only after that point were minorities allowed to have white collar jobs. I think I get what Weiner is trying to do with his portrayal of race, especially with the Sterling Cooper being full of good-ole boys (and girls) somewhat stuck in the past, but I worry that some in the audience will end up with a false impression of history.
Frankie, I don’t think there is a dearth of intelligent material for black actors or even lack of motivation on the part of black writers or artistically motivated creators. The issue as it always is is money and the willingness of those who have it to invest it in someone new and different. With thousands if not millions of TV pilots and movie scripts out there you’re not going to have execs looking to take chances, they’re looking to make money. I think you’re putting the cart before the horse.
Does anyone think Mad Men doesn’t accurately reflect minorities in the world that Don Draper et al live in? If you don’t this it’s accurate, then I can see wanting to see more minorities and if so what’s inaccurate? But if you think it’s an accurate reflection, then how do you work more in without it becoming a hokey after school special?
It's appearing that Duck Philips is making some attempt to "modernize" SC with the younger workers in creative. That's also Duck's way of making his mark on the company. Let's be real! So, to me, the company is becoming a tad more progressive, mainly out of necessity.
One thing we viewers can bank on is that Mr. Weiner will tackle race and any other topic on his terms. I just realized how he touched on weight discrimination with Mrs. Schilling. Often, larger ladies are presented as some jolly jokesters. But she was presented with a lot of dignity and the actress was superb in the role. The "jokes" the so-called comic cracked were the least funny I've ever heard and illustrated that some things simply are not funny!
Oh no, Julia, I didn't mean that they should go in that direction, but that it is something that SC is probably going to have to face, one way or the other. As the 1960s unfold, they can choose to ignore issues of race, which will affect their business, or they can pay attention to it, which will also affect their business.
I think it presents a great opportunity for Weiner and Co. to provide an honest depiction of the messiness of that subject, rather than the after-school-special that ends with everyone singing Kumbaya, like we normally see on TV.
Frankie …
“The Wire”. I truly love MM, but “The Wire” was better. I’m sorry if I offend anyone on this board by saying this. I’m a writer, I listen to writing; I will never hear writing like that again. Not on TV.
MM is wonderful, entertaining. “The Wire” broke my heart every week. It should always have had more viewers … and yes, at least one Emmy nod.
But not everybody knows about the best damn sushi restaurant either, right?
Frankie, as a college educated brother, I can tell you that my friends and I HATE B.E.T. with a passion. As latenac just said, Hollywood is resistant to anything creative, and intelligent, so if it’s afrocentric in addition to that, then forget it. Also, if you’re looking for creative, well written shows with minorities, check out “The Wire” and “The Boondocks.”
I remember watching that first scene in the pilot, and being very impressed with Don. He’s a humanist. As a rich, white male in 1960, he didn’t have to talk with the busboy and treat him as an intellectual equal. But, the reason he did is because he wanted to, and because he’s a good hearted guy. Yet, later on, he casually makes anti-semitic remarks. Therein lies the complexity of Don Draper, and to a greater extent the complexity of this show. I love it, think it’s brilliant, and tell all of my friends(both black and white) what they’re missing out on. I also feel that the amount of screen time given to black folks on this particular show is just enough. It would be phony if they stuck in a token black executive. However, if by the fourth season(1966), there aren’t more of us on the show, then there could potentially be a cause for alarm. Until then, I’m satisfied by how accurately we’re represented, and I want to commend Ms. Roberta Lipp for writing such a great blog.
@Hullaballo…
"everyone singing Kumbaya…." LOL!
Kay,
The Wire was the best. I think the lack of Emmys means we’re safe in saying that — just as the best artists are never recognized in their own time.
Idris Elba … ohhhhh my. Not just the best story arc, but the hottest man on the small screen for YEARS. No wonder we had to pay to watch him.
You had to go and bring Stringer Bell up while I’m at work …
I’m not sure anyone said they were “worried” about black actors being cast in service roles in Mad Men. Nor do I think discussion Weiner’s choices is the same as questioning them. Given that at least 40-50% of the population of NYC was minority in 1962 it would be unrealistic to show Don and company in a heremetically sealed white world. In fact the 60′s was the unraveling of that illusion.
Most of the time on other blogs etc I’ve been on discussions of race tend to either end up in as you said people trying too hard to prove how open minded on non-offensive they are or people telling other people to just “get over it.” I thought this one has actually remained fairly in the middle of those two extremes. And you shouldn’t think that everyone except that “one black dude” is white in this discussion.
He (Weiner) keeps looking at the fat thing. Remember that in the same episode, Betty's riding buddy whose name I can't come up with but will later was talking about her fat daughter (who just happens to be starving herself–gee–wonder why).
hull,
Objects in the MM mirror are definitely closer than they appear. I see this more every week.
There is so much in this show that has quite a modern kick to it. With "The Benefactor", I think I mean the word "kick" literally. There was such an edge to that episode. I think it was meant to offend.
I'm trying to remember what Betty's horsey friend said about her daughter's baby fat. Betty commented that the child would outgrow it — and didn't the woman say something like, "She already has"?
God save us all from the mean midcentury moms!
“Anne, God’s voice sounds like Daniel Dae Kim. Trust me on this.”
Bullshit. God sounds like my uncle Frank when he got angry.
Contemporary America is a rich and diverse place (and truth be told, it’s always been such).
So, watching men's gymnastics, the 3 men on pommel for Team USA were a Russian, a Chinese man, and an Indian. And my son and I turned to each other and said "God Bless America."
I mean really.
I have to admit it makes me bristle to comments that blacks could really only get service jobs during this era (early 1960s).
Arabella, that's an understandable reaction. And Mad Men illustrates why it's an understandable, though incorrect, assumption. In that world, the white male waspy world, all you saw were blacks in service-oriented jobs. And it's certainly all you saw on TV and in film.
To Sir With Love, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and In the Heat of the Night; all 1967.
I’m trying to remember what Betty’s horsey friend said about her daughter’s baby fat.
I think "she already has," but then a HORRIBLE remark about how awful it is to see a fat girl in a leotard.
By the way, kudos to you for even bringing up this topic. Often, it’s easier to just ignore race, or act like it’s a little insignificant detail that no longer affects anyone. Obviously, it’s a subject that still incites controversy, but I think the more honest, forthright discussions we can have about it, the better–particularly with such a well-informed community as the writers and readers of this blog.
Such a compelling discussion, I don't have much to contribute that hasn't already been very well-articulated. Thanks to all for your candor.
Julia said that the MM characters would never consider themselves racist, but they have clearly racist attitudes. So true.
It reminds me of the scene in Babylon when Don says to Rachel, "I don't hate you" re: Jews, and she says sardonically, 'oh no, of course, individuals are great.' This type of attitude is quite prevalent today, regarding most minorities.
I have cousins who 'don't mind' a particular gay person they know, but they would never vote for gay rights or for anything beneficial for gay people on a collective level. The whole 'those people' attitude.
Anti-Semitism for instance has risen considerably over the last year in France and the UK, I just read recently. And look at the nastiness that has surfaced in the Presidential campaign over race – when Hillary won West Virginia, there were folks there interviewed who were not remotely ashamed to say that they could not vote for a black man. Astounding.
And that's just it, these things are always just below the surface – it doesn't take much for this kind of shit to rise to the top.
As Deborah said, I just can't wait for all the coincidences to go away, so society will be racism- and anti-Semitism and homophobia- and sexism-free!
The Wire is fucking brilliant. Full-stop.
In that world, the white male waspy world, all you saw were blacks in service-oriented jobs. And it’s certainly all you saw on TV and in film.
By 1962, Sidney Poitier had played a doctor at least twice in mainstream Hollywood movies (No Way Out and Pressure Point), Diahann Carroll had been a teacher (Paris Blues), and Harry Belafonte had played a rising young politician (Island in the Sun), and a school principal (Bright Road).
Plus, the careers of Ivan Dixon, Bill Cosby, Greg Morris, Louis Gossett, and Cicely Tyson, were beginning to take off, and they as well as the three mentioned above were often seen as featured performers (in roles that easily could have been played by Whites) on TV in shows like The Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, GE Theatre, Bob Hope Theatre, Perry Mason, The Defenders, as well as a host of other anthology series from the time.
Actually, 1962 might as well have been a lifetime away from 1960. By then, there were many accomplished Blacks making inroads in a number of fields–particularly sports and entertainment. But also law and politics, business, science, education, and the arts. Pepsi even had at least 3 Black vice presidents (Senior and Executive level) by that time.
I'm not saying it was all great, but there were plenty of examples of people overcoming the odds and succeeding despite the very real presence of segregation, discrimination and overt racism.
Brief digression: Oh dear Sidney Poitier, I love that man. Seriously though, I worship him. I think I've seen every single one of his movies, and they were each so important and powerful to me. And since I have a black father and a white mother whose parents were, shall we say, reluctant at the prospect of their union, "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" was a watershed film in my life, even though most people see that as one of his weakest. I would love to see Sidney Poitier make a MM appearance in some way.
I too am really glad that you've brought up this topic. It's so nice to read these comments- everyone able to talk about this issue in a logical and well thought through way. I've heard a lot of people griping (elsewhere, of course) about the small number of black characters on the show. I'm not surprised, however… As a nation, we've PC'd ourselves to death! Expecting to see equality on a show that takes place in a time where things were definitely not equal is futile. I just wish more people would think like your readers and accept it. I vote we trust Weiner on this one since he's a stickler for detail and accuracy. That's one of the things I love about Mad Men, it's authenticity. It'd be a shame to see him compromise his initial vision and intentions in the name of contemporary political correctness.
Sarah Beth Carlson: Becky has a dance recital. It's so horrible to put girls that fat in a leotard.
Betty: Stop, she'll outgrow it.
Sarah Beth: She did.
The fat theme is the only recurring motif, along with pregnancy, which is a variation on the theme, that I can detect so far this season:
Sara Beth talks about her daughter hoarding dimes, to which Betty says something along the lines of she's watching her weight.
Betty snidely comments about Sally having fruit punch for Valentine's Day.
The guys make jokes about Peggy visiting a fat farm.
Ken jokes about Harry's soon to be fat wife.
Carlton has put on a lot of weight. Betty thinks it's because he's happy, but Don disagrees.
Harry's office mate (is it Mitch?) is fat.
Jimmy makes jokes about Mrs. Schilling.
I think there have been others, but I can't say for sure.
Of course most of the derogatory fat remarks have been directed at the women, while the men receive a pass.
I wonder where they're going with this?
And that, my friend, is a post. Nothing fancy, and pure brilliance.
Seriously, hull, CTRL-C = copy, CTRL-V in a Write window, Save, and that's a wrap.
He is far more graphic in his Jewish insults. Maybe because he himself is Jewish and it is easier to make fun of our own culture. It is hard to criticize a person for slamming their own minority.
I make white trash and fat jokes all the time. But should a skinny chick or other race do it, I would probably get my hackles up.
I think his use of the black actors during the show has been very precise and respectful. It was a sign of the times. They are never really insulted (except for the unfortunate treatment of Paul's girlfriend) And even that was approached and criticized by another character (Paul). They actually come across as the observers of the main characters and they seem to spy the hypocrisy. I also like that Don pretty much treats them as equals (colluding with the elevator men, interviewing the waiter about his cigarette habits.)
There’s a certain vigilance required in antisemitism, because it’s easier for Jews to “pass.” Roger has to ask if they’ve ever hired any Jews, whereas he knows he’s never hired any blacks. The difference is, blacks just don’t get in the front door, but you have to guard the front door against Jews. (And gays, of course, have never gotten in the front door.) That’s why the antisemitism has to be stated aloud.
And sadly, anti-Semitism has been stated aloud in France, the UK, and Poland in just the last month. But that's a thread for another time and place.
Good points, Deborah, the passing issue is a very important distinction.
Since this series is about the Sixties, something tells me that Weiner will be introducing major black characters, sooner or later. One, he has already introduced the Drapers' housekeeper on a semi-regular basis, this season. And two, when some writer brought up the subject that the series might have a regular black character, Weiner nearly had a fit. Apparently, he likes to keep his story developments close to the chest and does not like the idea of spoilers.