Seedlings turn overnight to sunflowers
Eme commented on another post about the appeal of the Mad Men as grownups:
The fact that the men are supposed to be real adult men. Yes, I know that when we discuss these things we realize the real adolescent immaturity at (the) heart of the MM men but nevertheless, doesn’t MM in a way celebrate a culture of sophisticated adulthood? Personally, I’m just dying for a grown man to show up onscreen…
This reminded me of something Matthew Weiner said (back at that thing we saw him speak at where we met him and stuff) about how one thing that drives the characters forward is each of their struggles with where they are in their life cycle. That keeping that ‘real’ (no way did Weiner say “keeping anything real”) was how he could guarantee that this series never run dry, or need to rely on over-the-top plot devices.
Pete Campbell and the Greek chorus of Paul, Ken and Harry, are all little boys trying to find the balance between boyhood (dear god, Pete’s pajamas?!!?) and being a man in a man’s world. Pete makes fun of Harry’s lollipop. Also I find it interesting to put them together physically, these men; Pete is visually prepubescent while Paul really feels like a… well, like a fully formed human. But they are all in the same age range; those four in particular.
Weiner was playing with these ideas:
What is the journey of maturity? Where is each character in their life?
He spoke about all the conjecture behind Peggy’s letting Pete into her apartment in the pilot, how everyone was convinced that she was doing it as a career move. But Weiner didn’t see it that way. (Neither did I, ftr.) He said she was 22 years old and he took two trains because he had to see her.
And I take that very seriously.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
As a copywriter for an ad agency, I enjoy “Mad Men” immensely. When will Season 2 begin? I’ve heard it’s slated for summer, but can you post the specifics? Thank you.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Season 2 will begin sometime in July, we think late July, but AMC has not made an official announcement.
May 14th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I had this real long post about this except that it made no sense whatsoever. In fact, I’m having such a hard time stringing sentences together that I’m thisclose to calling Oliver Sacks.
May 14th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I do think that this is a culture that does not exist any longer — at least among the middle class. An adult culture where adult threw parties and the kids were either in bed or on the periphery.
Now the culture has shifted to parents gathering for play dates and soccer games. I think, and this goes toward the topic, that kids are physically maturing faster, but less expected to act like little adults than they once where. Today I don’t think a lot of kids put on a suit too many times before they go to job interviews. Pete Campbell was probably born in a suit and always trying to be a Little Man. Now he’s a Little Man trying to be a Big Man.
Not to get deep, but there is a youthening of the culture. Instead of kids aspiring to be adults, adults are aspiring to be, if not children, younger. Fashions really reflect that.
Not everything in my life is about Buffy, I swear, but the demographic of viewers was about this trend. I know, because I read it, and everything in books is true.
A certain subset of adults who tended to think be “younger thinking” found the show in a way that might not have happened in another time.
When I have friends over, I assume they’ll want soda rather than mixed drinks — but I really want to have the courage to throw an old-fashioned cocktail party.
May 14th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Oliver Sacks is my hero.
May 14th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Apologies for the crudeness …
George Carlin calls it the “pussyfication of our children.”
Hard to argue in light of the evidence.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Leave it to Carlin to call it out! LOL!
May 14th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Glass, it’s an excellent point. Very pointy.
And uh, it’s reflected in our language and writing style. Totally ties in with Buffy. We all think it’s cool to talk like the kids. Pete Campbell’s and his peers were trying to be seen as grownups.
May 15th, 2008 at 7:59 am
You all said everything I wanted to say. Without the aphasia!
When I was a kid, I thought being 30 would be the perfect age; you’re still young but you have had some experience. I also really yearned to be an adult and have the privilege of adult vices, believe it or not. Drinks and cigarettes and staying out late–all those things that are supposed to be bad for your health. Well, they ARE. But there’s a part of me that thinks that a person ought to have at least one tiny little vice. I don’t even know why I think so–maybe because that way one can’t get too smug?
“Today I don’t think a lot of kids put on a suit too many times before they go to job interviews.”
There was a column in the NYT many years ago that addressed this point, how young people were showing up at job interviews wearing flip-flops, sun dresses with spaghetti straps, unshaved, etc.
The other thing about the youthification, as Glass calls it, is that it’s actually a very cruel culture. Not only because it values youth and beauty over character traits but because, let’s face it, we can’t help but get old. It’s the way it is. And anything that makes one feel inferior over the natural course of events is inherently corrupt. In light of how difficult it was for most humans to live past 30, getting old is a huge SUCCESS, man. We’re doing what most people throughout history could never achieve and we’re doing it in droves.
I’m going to tell you a little anecdote that put it all in perspective for me. When I was around 26 or so, I was living in Israel and I had a friend from Argentina. His name was Dan. One day Dan came to see me and he was over the moon. He said to me, “I turned 35 today and I went out to the desert to celebrate.”
And I guess I must’ve looked at him as if to say, “Wow, 35? You’re OLD” because he then added:
“You know, I was a teenager during the dictatorship in Argentina. And every day friends of mine would disappear and I’d never see them again. No one would know what happened and everyone was too afraid to ask. And many of them weren’t even politically involved but they took them anyway. See, when I was sixteen, I never imagined I’d live to see 35. So today I had to do something special.”
May 15th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Eme, that’s a beautiful story.
When you talk about youthification, all I can think of is Logan’s Run.
May 15th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I loved Logan’s Run!! I caught it back in dickety-doo on WPIX’s Million Dollar Movie.
May 15th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Quite a story, Eme.
I freaking love Logan’s Run. Deb, I think we had the comic book/s? I remember the escape and a continuation about life outdoors.
May 15th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Eme
That really is a lovely story. Without being sappy, it’s really something to consider.
I also agree about the cruelty of our culture. I enjoy celebrity gossip, but I’m really sick of “old” being the punchline, you know? Either that, or people act like the person committed a crime by aging. In either case, the age becomes something to ridicule all by itself.
Famous woman stays in good shape and makes the most of her looks: She’s really starting to look like a hag. Older woman gets plastic surgery: She really looks like a freak — unnatural! God forbid one of these women are discovered to have a sex life or to wear something less than “age-appropriate.” And there is nowhere she can wear a bathing suit on this planet — the beach or her own backyard — where someone won’t get a picture of her thighs.
I don’t remember my grandmother at my age, but I do remember when she was only a few years older than I am, and it wasn’t just that she seemed an old lady to me, but that she seemed like an old lady to herself. She was divorced, and I can think of at least two men who liked her, but she wouldn’t consider it — because that time of life was behind her.
I have a non-existent relationship with my mother, but I know she still has relatively “young” interests — as do I. I can’t imagine being the person my grandmother was in her forties. When people say that 40 or 50 isn’t what it used to be, that people are more vital, that’s true.
So why is the attitude that a woman is fair game to be torn apart when she ages? Or that somehow she ought to just get it over and morph into a plump, pie-making, silver-haired granny? Men get some of this too, as bloggers are apt to call George Clooney a “pepaw” these days.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I like what hullabaloo said. An Atlanta minister said something a few years ago, “it’s a new day.” In other words, kids know more now than they were allowed to not long ago.
As far as youthification goes, I believe corporate America has something to do with this also. Think about it…Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Apple and some of the other tech companies are called “campuses.” They are run by people who are very young or who came of age in the 60s and still have youthful spirits. Many of the people they hire may have just graduated from college months earlier, so these new employees go straight from one campus to another. In any case, a suit is optional and every day is casual Friday.
Also, advertising nowadays is about reaching a certain demographic, which usually means children or men 18-49 years old. The things that are sold to people over 49 will usually be: 1. investment/retirement services; 2. insurance; 3. pharmeceuticals; 4. health aids (personal alarms, scooters, grappling canes, things with guard rails).
It seems as though after 49, advertisers start preparing those consumers for golden-year doldrums.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Sorry, I did not mean hullabaloo!
June 4th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What other thoughts are there on this.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Kim, sorry, this was an older post, I missed your comments.
Younger people spend their money more freely, so they are marketed towards more heavily, and I think that has a lot to do with youthification. But as I’ve said before, you needed targeted demographics to discover that, and they didn’t have it in MM’s day.
June 4th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I agree, youth is important to advertisers, but I think things might be changing. Just as they did in the 1960s, the Baby Boomers are going to change how we look at age. They were responsible for the shifts we saw then, and I think they’re responsible for the shifts that are beginning to occur right now. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly what these shifts are, but I think that we as a society feel them, sense them.
One of the reasons MM is so significant to us today is because it provides a mirror image for us. We’re on the cusp of something, but I don’t think we quite know what it is yet.